highaltitude.log.20091224

[00:00] <Laurenceb> do you need to move up to some Hex ?
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[00:01] <Laurenceb> edmoore: can I ask about your badger cub uplink
[00:01] <edmoore> not now
[00:01] <Laurenceb> what bandwidth filter were you using?
[00:01] <Laurenceb> ok nvm then :P
[00:01] <edmoore> see response to part a
[00:01] <edmoore> but it's v large
[00:02] <edmoore> something vagely in the 70cm band would probably work
[00:02] <edmoore> i am exaggerating slightly, but not much
[00:02] <Laurenceb> ok that explains the large powers you were using
[00:02] Action: Laurenceb was looking at the ISS uplink
[00:03] <Laurenceb> to gage interference
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> umm...
[00:03] Action: Laurenceb has some CC1020 eval board
[00:03] <Laurenceb> *s
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> IIRC - fuzzily - some of the Apollo transmissions were in that band too
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> I suppose that's not really relevant, ads the majority of stuff is going to be man-made
[00:04] <Laurenceb> from the ISS performance, it looks like interference dominates
[00:05] <Laurenceb> but its not that bad
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> A log from a reciever suspended over london 40km up would be interesting.
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[00:08] <Laurenceb> that code is a mess :-/
[00:08] <natrium42> ohai
[00:09] <jcoxon> hmmm i seem to have broken my touchscreen :-(
[00:09] <jcoxon> it was working so well
[00:10] <SpeedEvil> :/
[00:10] <natrium42> you touched it too much
[00:10] <jcoxon> time for reinstall :-p
[00:12] <Laurenceb> This program was produced by the CodeWizardAVR V1.24.8d Professional
[00:12] <Laurenceb> ewww ewww ewww ewww
[00:13] <jcoxon> fixed :-)
[00:13] <jcoxon> reinstalled the driver
[00:17] <jcoxon> night all
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[00:23] <Laurenceb> /I got it! why the LED isn't on/off accordingly. Because it's not the PIN.(JP2.D)
[00:23] <Laurenceb> lol AVR noobs
[00:24] <Laurenceb> actually that code looks pretty neet - seems to take a UART and packetise it then send over the link
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[11:43] <russss> btw, noisebridge (hackerspace in san francisco) has started a space group. I think they want to try some rockoons. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Spacebridge
[11:45] <edmoore> "400,000 feet planned"
[11:45] <edmoore> so young and naive :)
[11:45] <russss> hehe
[11:45] <russss> I hear they do have some proper rocket types involved though.
[11:45] <edmoore> looks like they have some good people though
[11:45] <edmoore> lots of nasa employees
[11:46] <edmoore> I can see the meeting now "Ok guys, first we have to draw up a list of approved vendors for replenishing the coffee machine. the north wing filing cabinet contains a form you have to send to all potential vendors, subject to a 10 working day response, you must pick the lowest quotation in each and every instance. Ok, that's coffee, now for how to re-order stationary..."
[11:47] <russss> hahaha
[11:51] <edmoore> " * HF ham stuff can reach a long way but takes lots of power
[11:51] <edmoore> with good enough buoyancy control, could dip down to 3g altitudes,
[11:51] <edmoore> download, re-ascend"
[11:52] <edmoore> 3G dongle are a good couple of watts
[11:53] <edmoore> and look what you can do with 10mW
[11:55] <edmoore> will be very interesting to see what the people of SF can do with this. Have subscribed to their mailing list
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[11:56] <Laurenceb> hi
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[12:10] <Hiena> Merry Xmass for all!
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[13:55] <Laurenceb> edmoore: what compiler and programmer did you use for badger cub?
[13:56] <edmoore> sdcc and the ti debugger
[13:56] <edmoore> probably the worst compiler in the history of man
[13:57] <Laurenceb> sdcc? the docs looked ok to me
[13:57] <Laurenceb> whys it so bad?
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[14:33] <edmoore> BODMAS fail
[14:34] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:35] Action: Laurenceb usually uses brackets anyway - for ease of reading
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[14:43] <Laurenceb> http://www.tradestead.com/wholesale-61w-mobile-phone-jammer-with-omni-directional-antennas-power_p10269.html
[14:43] <Laurenceb> what the...
[14:43] <n900evil> dx has those
[14:46] <edmoore> wow, you pay a fair bit for it
[14:46] <russss> you can get cheaper ones iirc
[14:46] <edmoore> just need to spray lots of spread spectrum crapola out into a dirty amp
[14:46] <russss> but they are clearly illegal in the UK
[14:46] <Laurenceb> just a bit
[14:47] <edmoore> infact you could probably modify a mobile couldn't you?
[14:47] <russss> 61W for 150m sounds like a bit of brute force.
[14:47] <edmoore> just tell it not to do the time division bit
[14:47] <edmoore> or rather, do all time and frequency divisions all at once
[14:47] <russss> http://www.billsdeals.co.uk/275-mobile-phone-jammer-3w-triband-2g-gsm-3g-wcdma-800-1800-2100mhz.html
[14:47] <Laurenceb> just nick the power amp from a mobile
[14:47] <Laurenceb> or hack the firmware
[14:48] <edmoore> firmware hack was what i was thinking
[14:48] <Laurenceb> theres firmware hacks for old nokias to intercept texts in the local cell
[14:49] <russss> I think the police/security services use those big brute-force jammers to stop SMSes getting through to potentially remote-triggered bombs
[14:49] <Laurenceb> ah yeah I've read about them in iraq
[14:49] <russss> but if you just want to stop people yelling into their phones then you can probably afford to be a bit less conservative
[14:52] <Laurenceb> supposedly the nokia firmware hack is used by paparazzi
[14:54] <gordonjcp> russss: I've always thought that's an amazingly bad idea
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[14:55] <gordonjcp> russss: if I was going to design an SMS-controlled bomb controller, I'd have it send a regular heartbeat to another SMS modem
[14:55] <gordonjcp> no heartbeat = disrupted comms = boom
[14:56] <russss> hmm, I think that would greatly increase your chance of blowing yourself up though.
[14:56] <gordonjcp> not really
[14:56] <gordonjcp> you'd only wake the watchdog once you'd placed the device
[14:57] <gordonjcp> it's why I think the whole idea of utterly incapacitating a potential bomber "so they can't push the red button" is fundamentally retarded
[14:57] <gordonjcp> security theatre by people who watch too much 24 at best, downright dangerous and foolish at worst
[14:58] <n900evil> jamming has point
[14:59] <n900evil> you are controlling an IED at roadside.
[14:59] <Laurenceb> the idea of shooting bombers in the head is pretty stupid too
[14:59] <Laurenceb> just connect it to heart monitor
[14:59] <russss> heh
[14:59] <russss> I suspect most terrorists still aren't that clever.
[14:59] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:59] <gordonjcp> Laurenceb: simpler than that, button in your shoe that you keep pressing with your toe
[14:59] <n900evil> it will have most effect if set off to the second.
[14:59] <gordonjcp> russss: hardly
[15:00] <n900evil> any hjammm
[15:00] <Laurenceb> http://safeliving.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/glasgow-airport-explosion.jpg
[15:00] <gordonjcp> russss: they're not clever enough to figure out something as obvious as that, but they're clever enough to plan out the rest of it?
[15:00] <Laurenceb> as seen there
[15:00] <gordonjcp> russss: tbh the least clever ones I've seen were those two doctors that set themselves on fire at Glasgow airport
[15:00] <gordonjcp> Laurenceb: well yeah
[15:00] <n900evil> ing that makes it not go off, or go odff early or late is a win.
[15:01] <gordonjcp> you can't really call the Glasgow airport attacks "terrorism" though
[15:01] <Laurenceb> lulzism?
[15:01] <Laurenceb> failpostercreationism
[15:02] <gordonjcp> Laurenceb: barely even mildlyscaryism
[15:02] <gordonjcp> it fails on many levels
[15:02] <gordonjcp> 1) even the thickest ned knows you're supposed to get out of the car before you set it on fire
[15:02] <gordonjcp> 2) it's Paisley, people crashing burning cars into things isn't exactly an uncommon event
[15:03] <gordonjcp> 3) they picked the only building in the Greater Glasgow area that has blanket CCTV coverage, armed police and extensive fire suppression systems
[15:04] <gordonjcp> 4) as one of the local comedians put it, you've got to wonder if they did their research, trying to bring a religious war to Glasgow
[15:07] <Laurenceb> whens the sparkfun givaway?
[15:09] <russss> 7th of january
[15:12] <Laurenceb> cool
[15:12] <Laurenceb> I predict the site will crash
[15:13] <edmoore> I predict a riot
[15:13] <Laurenceb> I guess you have to actually submit the order after the start time
[15:13] <Laurenceb> so its best to prepare an order then watch the clock
[15:14] <Laurenceb> I need a decent iron, any recommendations?
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> Im pondering a gas one
[15:16] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=85
[15:16] <Laurenceb> it has a CE sticker
[15:16] <Laurenceb> but says 120Vac
[15:23] <russss> I want to get a proper temperature controlled iron + hot-air reflow station for the hackspace. But they're pretty expensive.
[15:24] <edmoore> define proper
[15:25] <Laurenceb> most of the stuff on sparkfun is 120V :(
[15:25] <russss> well. Something with temperature control.
[15:25] <russss> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=76
[15:26] <Laurenceb> isnt that 120V ?
[15:26] <russss> yeah it is
[15:26] <russss> apparently you can get some pretty cheap 230V ones from china off ebay
[15:26] <Laurenceb> how easy is it to convert the voltage?
[15:26] <russss> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SMD-Rework-Soldering-Station-HOT-AIR-IRON-2in1_W0QQitemZ320466587301QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9d4c0ea5#ht_3871wt_1089
[15:27] Action: Laurenceb was hoping to find something half decent in the sparkfun givaway
[15:27] <russss> that's 230V for $99
[15:27] <russss> I've seen that model reviewed before, apparently it's pretty good for the price
[15:27] <Laurenceb> well you cant go wrong at that price
[15:28] <Laurenceb> might as well get it for cannibilisation
[15:28] <russss> "no customers look for me after purchase, they all forget about me"
[15:28] <russss> aww.
[15:28] Action: Laurenceb will probably invest in some IMU hardware from the sparkfun givaway instead
[15:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9431 like that :P
[15:29] <edmoore> russss: i have an aoyue unit from ebay
[15:29] <edmoore> combined iron and hot air
[15:29] <edmoore> I like it
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[15:30] <Laurenceb> edmoore: much more than the unbranded ones?
[15:30] <russss> we're accumulating quite a lot of crap which I'd like to harvest for parts.
[15:30] <Laurenceb> - expensive
[15:31] <edmoore> it's not that much more prestigious than an unbranded one
[15:31] <Laurenceb> I see
[15:31] <russss> if you "buy it now" on that one, you also get 10 replacement soldering tips and replacement heating elements.
[15:32] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:32] <Laurenceb> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/cc1020.html page 85 looks interesting
[15:32] <Laurenceb> STATUS 5 and 6 give you I and Q baseband
[15:35] <Laurenceb> if those are properly refreshed you should be able to grab the signal over SPI
[15:35] <edmoore> russss: we are getting a preheater to. saw a very very very convincing demo
[15:36] <edmoore> interesting bit from 1:30
[15:37] <Laurenceb> like his sucker
[15:38] Action: Laurenceb uses tweezers
[15:39] <russss> interesting
[15:42] <edmoore> you can have a play if you ever hop on the 45 min train to cambridge
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[18:12] <Randomskk> hmm might make it to ccc yet
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[18:33] <n900evil> ran: sleigh?
[18:34] <Laurenceb> snow is slowly melting :-/
[18:34] <Hiena> Snow mostly melted.
[18:36] <n900evil> more due tonight
[18:37] <Laurenceb> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ADIS16400/PCBZ-ND
[18:37] <Laurenceb> yummmmy
[18:37] <n900evil> been clearing damn stuff of large tarp, and polygamy
[18:37] <Laurenceb> but silly price
[18:37] <n900evil> polytunnel
[18:37] <Laurenceb> cleaning snow off your wives?
[18:39] <n900evil> mobile keyboard plus gloves is bad
[18:43] <n900evil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4206829361/ :/
[18:44] <tonyb486> wha tlaptop is that? Is it a thinkpad?
[18:45] <n900evil> x60s
[18:45] Action: tonyb486 <3 his x200
[18:45] <n900evil> barely in warranty
[18:45] <tonyb486> poor thinky
[18:46] <n900evil> unsure what to do - if it would be covered
[18:46] <Randomskk> tonyb486: I wish I had a x200
[18:46] <n900evil> dropped 33cm with LDD
[18:47] <tonyb486> Is it an IBM thinkpad?
[18:47] <n900evil> cd open
[18:47] <n900evil> yes - x60s
[18:47] <tonyb486> The IBM warranty is great
[18:47] <tonyb486> From what I've heard
[18:48] <n900evil> unsure if moderaate abuse is covered.
[18:50] <n900evil> and if not, AIUI there is a callout fee
[18:53] <n900evil> one of the last IBM Logo'd ones
[18:55] <tonyb486> There are some that are half IBM half lenovo, does it say lenovo when it boots? I think that determins if you get IBM warranty support or lenovo warranty support
[18:55] <n900evil> ibm
[18:55] <Laurenceb> that sucks
[18:57] <n900evil> :/ worst case is ebay plus 40£
[18:58] <Laurenceb> n900evil: that HMC5843 magnetometer from digikey that you suggested, any idea what the package is?
[18:58] <Laurenceb> datasheet says LPCC-20
[18:58] <n900evil> qfnish
[18:58] <Laurenceb> hmm
[18:58] <n900evil> not bad - 4 leads
[18:59] <n900evil> oh maybe bypass too
[19:00] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah looks like it would fit QFN, just
[19:01] <Laurenceb> it actually looks like a PLCC-20 footprint, but - the springy leads
[19:01] <Laurenceb> maybe why they called it LPCC-20, as I cant find LPCC anywhere else
[19:02] <n900evil> they just make up outlines to annoy
[19:02] <Laurenceb> sticking it onto a QFN you have slightly less pad sticking out the sides than recommended
[19:03] <Laurenceb> also pin spacing is a tad off but for 20 pins thats not an issue
[19:03] <n900evil> that plus the $7 3axis gyro, an accel could make a cheep ins
[19:03] <Laurenceb> is that on digikey?
[19:04] <n900evil> plus micro for adc*3
[19:04] <n900evil> the hmc - yes
[19:05] <n900evil> oh - IIRC someone has exclusive rights to honeywell in the uk
[19:05] <n900evil> so no
[19:05] <n900evil> forgot theat
[19:08] <Laurenceb> huh?
[19:11] <n900evil> digikey won't sell honeywell stuff to the uk
[19:11] <n900evil> or at least not last year
[19:11] <Laurenceb> thats just stupid
[19:11] <n900evil> y
[19:12] <Laurenceb> I was thinking of that + a QFN breakout board
[19:12] <Laurenceb> just want a breadboard rig setup to test ideas really
[19:13] <n900evil> I want one in this box.
[19:13] <n900evil> but not happening.
[19:14] <Laurenceb> the razor IMU from sparkfun + a magnetometer would be perfect
[19:15] <Randomskk> freeday :p
[19:15] <Laurenceb> exactly
[19:15] <Laurenceb> if you sepnd >$100 do you just pay the excess?
[19:15] <Randomskk> I can't wait to get the motor controller on the quad working so i can start playing with sensors
[19:15] <n900evil> brilliant cunning plan
[19:15] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: yea
[19:16] <Randomskk> it's a 4100 discount o everything in your cart
[19:16] <Randomskk> $100*
[19:20] <n900evil> minus shippimg
[19:20] <Randomskk> well it's applied to everything in your cart
[19:20] <Randomskk> and then you pay shipping in checkout :p
[19:21] <Randomskk> man. whether I get to go to ccc or not keeps changing. tickets for flights in three day's time are tricky/expnsive
[19:21] <Randomskk> the mikrokopter guys are there with quadcopters :(
[20:15] <Laurenceb> mikrocopter is an interesting approach
[20:16] <Laurenceb> their code is very simple - not even any bias tracking
[20:16] <Laurenceb> and its all using integers
[20:16] <Randomskk> and yet it works, relatively well
[20:17] <Laurenceb> getting a filter working with just integers is a bit harder, but its easy to test with matlab/octave
[20:17] <Laurenceb> just need to get the right scale factors at each stage
[20:17] <n900evil> avoiding error accu ulation is ky
[20:18] <Randomskk> I should really hook all the sensors up ogether and get some data
[20:18] <Laurenceb> it seems a bit silly me buying hardware just for developing firmware
[20:18] <Randomskk> I got usb-based virtual serial port working
[20:18] <Laurenceb> I was kind of hoping you could help :P
[20:18] <Randomskk> so I can send data back a lot fasster oow
[20:18] <Randomskk> might look into that when I get back
[20:19] <Randomskk> got al the sensors, and a few of each type even
[20:19] <Laurenceb> but.... those huge RTF gliders are very cheap
[20:19] <Randomskk> two accels,s two types of gryros and three axis of each
[20:19] <Randomskk> sorry for atrocious spelling
[20:19] <Randomskk> second or more latency on key press to it appearing on my screen :p
[20:19] <Laurenceb> the key is having a magnetometer as well
[20:19] <Randomskk> got a three axis magno too
[20:19] <Laurenceb> oh cool, all aligned?
[20:20] <Randomskk> all as separate breakout boards atm
[20:20] <Laurenceb> can you record some data?
[20:20] <Randomskk> should be able to
[20:20] <Laurenceb> just fix them to some cardboard or something
[20:20] <Randomskk> yea
[20:20] <Laurenceb> aligned firle well of course
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[21:28] <Laurenceb> http://gb.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Parallax/29123/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt3B7nMwwsFSJPnpBXuAcEM
[21:28] <Laurenceb> theres that but it looks pretty poor
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[21:42] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9371
[21:42] <Laurenceb> problem solved :P
[21:42] <Laurenceb> weirdly it didnt appear on their site menu - just on google
[22:01] <Laurenceb> http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz/rnd/tracker/allan.png
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[22:07] <natrium42> o/
[22:07] <n900evil> :)
[22:08] <natrium42> n900evil, you need to send your n900 into the stratosphere :P
[22:08] <Laurenceb> looks like the caps are an issue - http://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?t=17475&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&sid=b550c5b5c5a5a39d687a098d543f245b
[22:09] <n900evil> Alas - I also need it to work.
[22:09] <Laurenceb> hed need to add a cc1020 of course
[22:09] <n900evil> laptop diedish
[22:09] <n900evil> may need warranty return
[22:10] <edmoore> oh, i just realised who n900evil is
[22:10] <natrium42> lol ed
[22:10] Action: natrium42 claps slowly
[22:10] <edmoore> if your laptop has died, why are you still logged in with SpeedEvil?
[22:10] <n900evil> ish
[22:11] <n900evil> works - but using it may further damage
[22:11] <n900evil> but is fine as compute server
[22:12] Action: Laurenceb isnt convinced the n900 is worth it
[22:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/home/index.htm I'd rather get one of those
[22:13] <natrium42> Laurenceb, what about an arduino phone? :D
[22:14] <Laurenceb> lmao
[22:15] <n900evil> someone in #maemo is selling threirs. claims it's almost useless
[22:15] <n900evil> touchbook
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[22:16] <Laurenceb> how come?
[22:16] <n900evil> full price n900 maybe not. It's a lot of cash
[22:16] <n900evil> lack of functional software
[22:17] <Laurenceb> cant it run ubuntu?
[22:17] <natrium42> bah
[22:17] <n900evil> dunno
[22:18] <natrium42> i wonder if he got the NTX2 modules for me yet
[22:22] <Laurenceb> natrium42: do you still have the mega2561 flight computer?
[22:22] <natrium42> yes
[22:23] <Laurenceb> does it have a ground plane?
[22:23] <natrium42> of course
[22:23] <Laurenceb> :P
[22:23] <natrium42> i can send you the eagle files if you want
[22:23] <edmoore> does it use ruby on rails?
[22:23] <natrium42> haha
[22:24] <Laurenceb> I was thinking about RFI - if we go for a hall sensor and a perestaltic pump we could get away with just that board
[22:24] <Laurenceb> lol
[22:24] <natrium42> hall sensor to monitor rotations?
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[22:25] <Laurenceb> yes
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[22:26] <natrium42> is that precise enough?
[22:26] <natrium42> i.e. each revolution is a certain volume of liquid?
[22:27] <Laurenceb> yes thats the idea
[22:28] <natrium42> sounds good to me
[22:30] <natrium42> i am actually building 100 motor controllers with hall effect sensors for a commercial project
[22:30] <natrium42> embedding 3 tiny magnets into plastic gear
[22:31] <natrium42> then you can use 2 hall effect sensors for phase encoding
[22:31] <natrium42> or one if you don't need direction
[22:36] <Laurenceb> neat
[22:36] <Laurenceb> yeah we only need a single one
[22:38] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking the eZ430-Chronos Wireless Watch could make an interesting HAB project
[22:39] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2009/11/25/ti-sports-watch-for-hacking/
[22:45] <Laurenceb> in fact if we GPS synced the ground stations you could just launch the watch
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[23:19] <natrium42> Laurenceb, mine didn't arrive yet :S
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[23:54] <RocketBoy> Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good-night.
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[00:00] --- Fri Dec 25 2009