highaltitude.log.20091222

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[09:35] <jcoxon> morning
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[09:58] <edmoore> greetings everyone
[09:58] <edmoore> good morning tonyb486
[10:36] <jcoxon> wow edmoore your in a good mood
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[11:01] <edmoore> jcoxon: i was visited in the night be three spirits
[11:03] <jcoxon> oh right, reformed man then?
[11:04] <edmoore> uhuh
[11:05] <jcoxon> i've just finished my touchscreen tablet :-p
[11:05] <jcoxon> a project i've been working on for ages but didn't have the time
[11:08] <edmoore> awesome
[11:08] <edmoore> what hardware and os?
[11:08] <jcoxon> an old dell laptop
[11:08] <jcoxon> 1.4ghz
[11:09] <jcoxon> stripped it down and put the screen onto the base
[11:09] <jcoxon> then got a touch screen
[11:09] <jcoxon> 12.1" screen
[11:09] <jcoxon> running ubuntu 9,10 with large fonts :-)
[11:09] <jcoxon> and virtual keyboard
[11:09] <edmoore> awesome
[11:10] <jcoxon> its a bit gaffer taped right now :-p
[11:14] <jcoxon> also got some deliveries from RS and Rapid
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[12:16] <DanielRichman> Araldite or Gluegun or Heatshrink tubing won't have any unwelcome electrical properties if I'm trying to insulate antenna elements from the boom, right?
[12:17] <edmoore> don't go mad with them
[12:17] <edmoore> they obviously have a slightly different permittivity than air, but probs won't notice
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[12:18] <DanielRichman> Ok. And finally, what type of Coax is ideal for building the 4:1 balun out of, and what type for the feed from radio -> antenna, given that it will be a 10m cable ish
[12:24] <Randomskk> yay
[12:24] <Randomskk> I passed the full license test
[12:24] <DanielRichman> congratulations, Randomskk
[12:24] <gordonjcp> Randomskk: yay! congratulations!
[12:24] <gordonjcp> DanielRichman: rg58 probably
[12:24] <Randomskk> cheers
[12:25] <Randomskk> now if only ofcom would update their db
[12:25] <DanielRichman> gordonjcp, at 434Mhz, i thought it would weaken the signal that is received
[12:25] <gordonjcp> DanielRichman: it's a half-wave loop, isn't it?
[12:25] <gordonjcp> so therefore only about a foot long?
[12:25] <DanielRichman> gordonjcp, yeah. So RG58 for that, what about the 10m cable to the radio?
[12:26] <Randomskk> 10m should be okay for rg58 but 213 will be a bit less lossy... I used rg58 with about 4m feeder
[12:26] <Randomskk> do you really need 10m? with an ft817? the radio is more portable than your yagi
[12:26] <DanielRichman> I'm thinking about putting it on the roof, but ok. I'm just checking that it's available
[12:26] <DanielRichman> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=20661
[12:26] <DanielRichman> that stuff?
[12:26] <Randomskk> ah, fair enough
[12:27] <Randomskk> if you're roof mounting then 213 might be better? with a longer feed
[12:27] <Randomskk> for the 4:1 balun the 58 is much more flexible and easier to work with
[12:27] <gordonjcp> yeah 213 would be better
[12:27] <Randomskk> not sure about nasty side-effects with using two different types of coax though
[12:27] <gordonjcp> you could use 233 if you can find it
[12:27] <gordonjcp> rg174 might be okay for the balun
[12:27] <DanielRichman> So should I build the balun out of 213 then?
[12:27] <DanielRichman> just so that it's all the same
[12:28] <Randomskk> I doubt it makes much odds, but you may as well since you're buying 213 anyway
[12:28] <DanielRichman> Okey, great
[12:29] <Randomskk> gonna mount it on a rotator or anything? or just for pointing in one direction?
[12:30] <DanielRichman> Yeah, I'd like to make some sort of rotator
[12:30] <DanielRichman> hopefully 2-axis
[12:30] <DanielRichman> Hmm. Since rg213 is £6/1m, and rg174 is £1.2/1m, is it worth it?
[12:31] <DanielRichman> The attenuation stats claim 6db ish for rg213 at 100Mhz, and 9db for 174 at 100Mhz
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[12:31] <Randomskk> 6db isn't great, is that at 10m length?
[12:32] <Randomskk> I guess it's about what you'd expect though.
[12:32] <DanielRichman> That's at 100m
[12:32] <Randomskk> ah
[12:32] <Randomskk> that's more like it
[12:32] <DanielRichman> rg58 is 2db at 10m (so 20db at 100m?)
[12:33] <Randomskk> losses add
[12:33] <DanielRichman> Since RG213 is 5x more £, I might settle for RG174 when getting the 10m piece
[12:33] <Randomskk> so yea
[12:33] <edmoore> logarithms fail :p
[12:33] <Randomskk> silly decibels
[12:34] <DanielRichman> logarithms are great :o
[12:35] <edmoore> 20db losses are 64 times greater than 2db losses
[12:35] <Randomskk> 20db is about 1000x right?
[12:35] <DanielRichman> dB is 10xlog gain, right?
[12:35] <DanielRichman> or dbd, atleast
[12:38] <Randomskk> hey edmoore I am now M0RND
[12:38] <edmoore> cool
[12:38] <edmoore> welldone
[12:38] <Randomskk> ofcom managed to get it into the database the same day I got the letter from rsgb, hurrah
[12:38] <Laurenceb> MORON
[12:39] <DanielRichman> So: 9db losses (RG174) are twice as bad as 6db (RG213) losses, which are 25 times as bad as 20db (RG58) losses (all at 100Mhz)
[12:39] <Laurenceb> well almost
[12:39] <Randomskk> wasn't even thinking of that, but it is good I didn't pick RON
[12:40] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: yea. something like that.
[12:40] <DanielRichman> no, hangon
[12:40] <DanielRichman> So: 20db (RG58) are 13 times as bad as 9db losses (RG174), which are twice as bad as 6db (RG213) losses (all at 100Mhz)
[12:41] <DanielRichman> Now, I have to work out a lossy-badness per £ factor, and realise that the numbers have not in any way helped me make an intelligent decision
[12:41] <DanielRichman> I think I'll go for RG174
[12:42] <Randomskk> to be extra cool you can take into account the signal strength, path loss, antenna gain, noise level, receiver sensitivity, receiver noise, etc
[12:43] <DanielRichman> I'm gonna go get some chocolate.
[12:47] <Randomskk> wow, the full license goes up to 250GHz 400W?
[12:47] <Randomskk> that's quite a high frequency
[12:50] <russss> mmm wattage
[12:51] <russss> I have to try and convince someone to do license courses at our hackspace. Nobody does them in central london.
[12:51] <Randomskk> 250GHz seems like it would go in very straight lines and not for very long
[12:51] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> hackspaces would be so great.
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> none around here.
[12:52] <Randomskk> I wish there was a hackspace near me. either here or cambridge
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> Fife, scotland.
[12:52] <Randomskk> in fact I'm especially disappointed that there isn't one in cambridge
[12:52] <Randomskk> but admittedly fife, scotland is more remote
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> Neglecting the fact that >0.5 miles is hard for me to do due to random problems.
[12:52] <russss> there's a guy starting one up in cambridge
[12:53] <Randomskk> cloest one to me now that I know of is London and it's both a bit of a trek (especially with electronics, on the tube...) and not as great as other notable ones?
[12:53] <Randomskk> russss: what really? is there a web page?
[12:53] <russss> not yet
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> In some ways those that need it most can't access it. - the under 16s.
[12:53] <russss> it's pretty new, he got in contact last month
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> As they bring in all sorts of stupid regulations with them.
[12:54] <russss> yeah
[12:54] <Randomskk> russss: that's awesome, let me know if anything comes of it?
[12:54] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: yea.
[12:54] <Randomskk> though I am now CRB certified! yay
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> Yes, for some it's a chance to get to advanced test equipment, but people who don't have a soldering iron or transistors, ...
[12:55] <Randomskk> we need better tech depts at school for that really >_>
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: yeah
[12:55] <russss> they have reduced the CRB requirements I believe.
[12:55] <Randomskk> apparently I will shortly be getting a "CRB Passport"
[12:55] <Randomskk> apparently this is like a "don't worry ma'am, I'm not here to molest your kids" deal
[12:55] <russss> but yeah. Lots of schools have great tech/engineering workshops and just don't use them enough.
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> russss: yes - but IIRC - you still need some if you see the same child semi- regularly.
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> russss: It's been slightly watered down.
[12:56] <Randomskk> russss: more things to encourage kids to use them, then. I don't know how many kids would go to a hackspace before knowing they're interested in that kinda thing?
[12:56] <Randomskk> school needs to get them started and get them hooked
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:56] <Randomskk> the rest comes naturally
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> but - if schools can't teach cooking, what chance does anything more interesting have.
[12:57] <Randomskk> that's pretty much why I'm doing engineering outreach
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Is that still true? I know they chucked out the cookers shortly after I left - I don't know if it's changed recently.
[12:58] <Randomskk> my school didn't give a toss about tech
[12:58] <Randomskk> but the tech dept still got by and the teachers were good
[12:58] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, don't be so sure. We use our tech departments one hell of a lot, in my opinion, yet the only thing Ofsted could slam us on was the fact that we don't teach Cooking
[12:58] <Randomskk> didn't really get into it at school until lower sixth though
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: fair enough.
[12:58] <Randomskk> before that it was all about the lego competition my junior school entered
[12:59] <Randomskk> mindstorms, at the time
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: I've not been in school for some weeks now :) So my experiences are somewhat dated, and I'm mainly going off what media portrays it as.
[12:59] <Randomskk> which media? :P
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: TV/radio
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> mainly.
[12:59] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, however, you're probably right for the majority of schools though
[12:59] <Randomskk> in all seriousness though, my tech teacher was great
[12:59] <Randomskk> he gave me 5x the budget for my A2 project to build the computer-vision-robot :P
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> I don't think the problem is the teachers - it's the curriculumn.
[13:00] <DanielRichman> tech curriculum is a joke
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> And the way it's normally interpreted.
[13:00] <Randomskk> good teachers can usually get around the curriculum because there's so little in it
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> My mum used to be a biology teacher.
[13:00] <Randomskk> but it is shit, especially before maybe sixth form
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> secondary.
[13:00] <Randomskk> well the actual cirriculum is still shit the whole time but eh
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[13:01] <Randomskk> there are a few different subjects you can do it in, e.g. design and technology systems and control technology, or electronics, or some others
[13:01] <Randomskk> I'm told the electronics one has a lot more actual electronics than my course ever did
[13:01] <Randomskk> but my school decided it was too hard and not enough students would take it or do well in it, so we do D&T instead
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> I wish I could go back and start again.
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> It's _way_ too easy to just coast.
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> And do what's required.
[13:01] <Randomskk> certainly before GCSE tech, all we did was "design and tech"
[13:01] <Randomskk> which was a rota system
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> But - you don't get to restore from saves IRL :)
[13:02] <Randomskk> cooking, sewing, woodwork, systems
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> cooking - involving actual pans?
[13:02] <Randomskk> and systems was in fact "cut some bits of plastic, some bits of foam, put a coin cell battery in, put an LED on, ta-da! a keyring torch"
[13:02] <Randomskk> well I guess so
[13:02] <Randomskk> this was a few years ago, but we did actually cook things
[13:02] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, sort of the same here; rota of Graphics, Electronics and Resmats
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[13:03] <Randomskk> for us it was just woodwork :(
[13:03] <DanielRichman> Resmats we build (1st year) A boat, second year an automata toy thing, third year I think we skipped it
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> It's really hard to do 'one size fits all' I guess is a problem.
[13:03] <Randomskk> would have died for some good metal work, consequentially my metalworking knowledge is seriously lacking
[13:03] <Randomskk> first year being what, age 12?
[13:03] <DanielRichman> Electrobics we built (1st) transistor based water sensor, skipped second year, then a 555 circuit
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> You can do a lot with a hacksaw and a file.
[13:03] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, yeah
[13:03] <Randomskk> (do you have first year as soon as you start secondary?)
[13:03] <Randomskk> okay, same as me
[13:03] <Randomskk> wow
[13:03] <Randomskk> that's all significantly more than we ever did before GCSE :P
[13:04] <Randomskk> which is another thing, there's so much disparity
[13:04] <DanielRichman> Our tech department has three staff members
[13:04] <DanielRichman> so that might be why there's more tech
[13:04] <Randomskk> I bet we both did almost exactly the same "Science" from first to third year
[13:04] <Randomskk> but things like tech? evidently not
[13:05] <Randomskk> our third year woodworking project was a nutcracker
[13:05] <Randomskk> five bits of sheet wood cut into a shape with a hole drilled into each of them except the back piece
[13:05] <Randomskk> sanded a huge amount
[13:05] <Randomskk> sanded some more
[13:05] <Randomskk> glued together
[13:05] <Randomskk> varnished
[13:05] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> Sanding is a key part of the curriculum.
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:05] <Randomskk> then a bolt put into the middle
[13:05] <Randomskk> you put the nut in the large circular hole in the bottom, and screw the bolt down to crack it
[13:06] <Randomskk> that was the most advanced resmats thing I ever did
[13:06] <Randomskk> sigh
[13:06] <DanielRichman> Oh yeah! I forgot; in Resmats we made windchimes
[13:06] <Randomskk> the equivilent electronics project was, iirc, building circuits on sheets of A4 out of copper tape with caps, resistors, LEDs, once or twice a transistor
[13:07] <Randomskk> good old copper tape
[13:07] <Randomskk> more like what I'd end up doing than I could ever imagine
[13:07] <Laurenceb> heh my stepdad used to teach CDT as it was called then in the late 80s/early 90s
[13:07] <Laurenceb> basically wood/metal work
[13:08] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: how many people doing electronics for GCSE at your school?
[13:08] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, typically it's 10/year out of ayear of 120
[13:08] <Randomskk> heh. our tech dept used to have three staff members
[13:08] <DanielRichman> but this year is a bad year; only 3 people
[13:08] <DanielRichman> I have no idea where our tech department funding comes from: it seems to magic a huge amount of equipment out of nowhere
[13:08] <Randomskk> then it turns out one of them was inclined towards younger girls
[13:08] <Randomskk> now we have two
[13:08] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:08] <DanielRichman> ah.
[13:09] <Randomskk> and the second seems to quit and a new one join fairly often (the resmat guy)
[13:09] <Randomskk> but they've all been pretty cool
[13:09] <Randomskk> the pædophilic electronics guy was the one doing the little LED keyring torches with us
[13:09] <Laurenceb> my stepdad quit to work on listed building restoration type stuff
[13:09] <Randomskk> he called us his smurfs and got us to call him papa smurf? probably should have seen the warning signs then
[13:09] <Randomskk> but we were used to it, roman catholic school
[13:10] <Laurenceb> :-/
[13:10] <Randomskk> when we were little kids we had to shower together "under supervision", but that stopped once we were >12 and then we didn't have showers at all, despite now being old enough to actually need them after games :P
[13:11] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: lol our school bought a CNC engraver for PCBs
[13:11] <Randomskk> it was super awesome, but after one year (my year, thankfully) they stopped using it
[13:11] <Laurenceb> eww games teachers are creapy
[13:11] <Randomskk> it turns out kids were solding over the isolation gap all the time
[13:12] <Randomskk> we're talking like 25mil traces for everything, with about 10mil each side for isolation if not more
[13:12] <Randomskk> but they were still managing to solder over the fr4 and onto the leftover copper
[13:13] <Randomskk> it ended up being less effort to have to the teacher get them to print their designs, take them to the photocopy room, run some copies onto a transparency, get some pre-sensitised PCB, expose them in the UV box, then etch them in the bubble etch tank and drill them by hand
[13:13] <Randomskk> than hitting "print to cnc machine" on the pcb design software and having it engrave and drill the entire thing, then having the teacher remove the inevitable shorts
[13:14] <Randomskk> you just can't win :P
[13:17] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I wish we had a CNC machine
[13:17] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, we have a bubble etch but it's just nasty
[13:17] <Randomskk> we have one that now sits by itself unused
[13:17] <Randomskk> you should get in touch :P
[13:17] <DanielRichman> :P
[13:17] <Randomskk> though it's no doubt so expensive that they can't bear to part with it, and will instead just leave it sitting there
[13:18] <DanielRichman> Naturally
[13:18] <Randomskk> we have the Rapid Electronics Bubble Etch Tank
[13:18] <Randomskk> gigantic piece of cast iron
[13:18] <DanielRichman> I've got 2.5 years left at Reading School, maybe I can persuade the tech department that a CNC machine is a good idea before I go
[13:18] <Randomskk> get a laser cutter instead
[13:18] <DanielRichman> We already have one :P
[13:18] <Randomskk> if you're going to peru--- you waht
[13:18] <DanielRichman> Now that IS a useful piece of kit
[13:18] <Randomskk> D':
[13:19] <Randomskk> lol persu---, not peru
[13:19] <Randomskk> but anyway what
[13:19] <Randomskk> laser cutters are far more awesome
[13:20] <DanielRichman> Design project, print, wait, your acrylic is ready
[13:20] <DanielRichman> and it engraves glasses too
[13:21] <Randomskk> D':
[13:21] <Randomskk> I am currently spending too much money and waiting far too long for a bloody laser cutter in *new zealand* to cut out some bits of acrylic
[13:23] <Randomskk> wish there was a laser cutter at uni I could actually use >_>
[13:24] <Randomskk> there probably is, too, but no idea what kind of hoops I'd have to jump through
[13:24] <Randomskk> they have some epic lasers
[13:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/N-prize_20Euthanasia_20Squad
[13:26] <Laurenceb> lmao
[13:30] <Randomskk> hahaha
[13:30] <Randomskk> awesome
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: lizard-x/shrdlu over on ##electronics has a laser cutter, and is somewher in england
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> typically does stencils
[13:47] <Randomskk> I don't get why there's no one in england offering that as a website service kinda thing
[13:47] <Randomskk> a fair few in the states and then ponoko is in NZ of all places
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> he is - I forget the website name though
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> http://www.lasercutit.co.uk/ - dunno
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> http://www.smtstencil.co.uk/
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> is the one I was meaning
[13:52] <Randomskk> smtstencil.co.uk isn't resolving?
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> odd - works for me
[13:52] <Randomskk> probably my internet then, DNS is being screwy
[13:52] <Randomskk> huh
[13:52] <Randomskk> DNS server at 4.2.2.3 can't find it
[13:52] <Randomskk> but google's 8.8.8.8 can
[13:53] <Randomskk> how bizarre.
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> He's willing to try cutting most stuff.
[13:54] <Randomskk> works now. neat.
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laser-Cutter-Engraver-PJHX40B-Desktop-size-new_W0QQitemZ290355627960QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item439a8b47b8
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> machine similar to
[13:55] <DanielRichman> aww man
[13:55] <DanielRichman> in that machine, it looks like you can't see the thing being lasered
[13:55] <DanielRichman> as it gets lasered
[13:56] <Randomskk> scroll down, videos
[13:56] <Randomskk> that top bit is a window
[13:56] <DanielRichman> ahh, my bad
[13:56] <DanielRichman> i thought it was blacked out
[13:56] <Randomskk> it does look it
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[14:43] <Randomskk> lol http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/technology/newsid_10000000/newsid_10003500/10003579.stm
[14:43] <Randomskk> Many young people are using 'proxy servers' to get round their schools' internet security systems. The free services offer instant access to banned websites, including online games and social networking. Figures suggest the use of proxies has risen sharply in recent years.
[14:43] <Randomskk> It sounds like an obscure, techy area of computing that only geeks would know about.
[14:43] <Randomskk> But when we asked pupils in one secondary school classroom who had heard of proxy servers, every hand went up.
[14:52] <tonyb486> A stateful firewall allowing only SSL on 443 and a transparent proxy on 80 with every other port blocked worked well at my school (in the US), of course I used SSH over SSL, but I was alone in that I think. :D
[14:53] Action: Randomskk also used SSH on port 443
[14:53] <Randomskk> with dynamic forwarding you can do anything, IRC, IM, web
[14:53] <Randomskk> portable firefox
[14:53] <Randomskk> they blocked "FirefoxPortable.exe", so I went for MyFirefoxPortable.exe
[14:53] <Randomskk> they blocked execution of apps from USB sticks, so I copied it to my userspace
[14:54] <Randomskk> they deleted it, so I copied it to a hidden folder deep inside the student shared spare hierarchy
[14:54] <tonyb486> Yeah, but my school managed to block ssh on 443, I had to use stunnel to tunnel SSh over SSL. Heh.
[14:54] <Randomskk> a step above mine then
[14:54] <tonyb486> The transparent proxy had a user/pass combo that could be used to override it
[14:54] <tonyb486> It always got out and was spread
[14:54] <Randomskk> though I hear some schools even installed a local CA on all their computers, then have their computer act as an SSL proxy
[14:54] <Randomskk> e.g. it actually decrypted your SSL
[14:54] <Randomskk> so could content-filter it
[14:54] <tonyb486> Yeah, thats the next step up
[14:55] <tonyb486> IP over DNS maybe ?
[14:55] <Randomskk> I was thinking that
[14:55] <Randomskk> or ICMP
[14:55] <Randomskk> you can store data in ping packets
[14:55] <tonyb486> Yep
[14:55] <tonyb486> I think my school already blocked ping
[14:55] <Randomskk> both'd work pretty well though latency is a pain
[14:55] <Randomskk> ouch
[14:55] <Randomskk> DNS it is then
[14:55] <Randomskk> you still need local execution
[14:55] <tonyb486> Well, I brought in a laptop
[14:56] <Randomskk> true
[14:56] <Randomskk> our school had WEP wifi, that took me a few hours to break (back before you could get WEP in seconds)
[14:56] <tonyb486> It turns out that if you open one PuTTY window on a school computer people pointed and paniced, but if you have ten terminal windows open on your laptop nobody cared. Kinda weird.
[14:56] <Randomskk> I got puttytray
[14:56] <Randomskk> it's like putty, but it minimises to a systray icon
[14:56] <Randomskk> and you can choose what icon
[14:56] <Randomskk> so the "safely remove hardware" icon
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[14:57] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: do you know what a proxy server is?
[14:57] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, yes
[14:57] <DanielRichman> um...?
[14:57] <Randomskk> congrats http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/technology/newsid_10000000/newsid_10003500/10003579.stm
[14:57] <Randomskk> It sounds like an obscure, techy area of computing that only geeks would know about.
[14:57] <Randomskk> But when we asked pupils in one secondary school classroom who had heard of proxy servers, every hand went up.
[14:57] <Randomskk> apparnetly naughty children in schools are using them to bypass internet filters
[14:57] <DanielRichman> Hahahaha
[14:57] <DanielRichman> Of course we are
[14:57] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, actually I use tor at school
[14:57] <Randomskk> tor eh
[14:57] <DanielRichman> Well, It depends
[14:57] <Randomskk> isn't that a bit slow
[14:57] <DanielRichman> yeah
[14:57] <tonyb486> And usually easy to block
[14:57] <Randomskk> SSH is great
[14:57] <DanielRichman> Indeed
[14:58] <DanielRichman> I'll either use Tor or SSH to my home server and run a HTTP proxy
[14:58] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no, you tried to and after waiting half of lunch for a page gave up right?
[14:58] <Randomskk> tonyb486: by the end of it I was just bored of playing silly buggers with the network admins and used my phone
[14:58] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: if you SSH to a home server, use SSH's dynamic forwarding
[14:58] <Randomskk> no need for an http proxy
[14:58] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, quickly: Antenna, max power probably will be 10W i run through it, for 434Mhz. BNC or PL259
[14:58] <Randomskk> you just tell firefox to use localhost as a SOCKSv5 proxy
[14:58] <Randomskk> BNC is better I hear
[14:58] <tonyb486> Randomskk: Heh, yeah.
[14:58] <Randomskk> PL259 is crap for 434 apparently
[14:58] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, Portable Apps Firefox takes about 10 years to start
[14:58] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I use Chrome at school
[14:59] <Randomskk> fair enough
[14:59] <DanielRichman> GTG; Be back later
[14:59] <Randomskk> tonyb486: also I eventually left school for uni, where they are considerably less anal about things like this
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[14:59] <Randomskk> poor old school admins
[14:59] <Randomskk> I mean, they tried
[15:00] <Randomskk> we even found the most hilarious "client feedback" from them on the site of the people who made the filter hardware (it was a plug in box deal)
[15:00] Action: tonyb486 is a freshmen at uni this year, yay!
[15:00] <Randomskk> apparently it had totally stopped all the proxy activity they were having problems with, and staff no longer had to work out what sites to add thanks to its smart filtering
[15:00] <Randomskk> sadly defeated by SSL; https://randomskk.net/pr was a web proxy I ran for a bit too
[15:00] <Randomskk> eventually they caught on and blocked randomskk manually
[15:01] <Randomskk> sadly for them I had quite a few domains and they didn't figure out to block the IP
[15:01] <Randomskk> of course, I also had several IPs.
[15:01] <Randomskk> but there you go.
[15:02] <edmoore> tonyb486: yo
[15:02] <tonyb486> hi
[15:02] <edmoore> Randomskk: am i correct in thinking that you use slicehost?
[15:03] <Randomskk> yea, I do
[15:03] <edmoore> tonyb486: are you interested in high altitude balloon projects?
[15:03] <edmoore> Randomskk: cool - how do you find them?
[15:03] <Randomskk> really good
[15:03] <Randomskk> when I was starting out their tutorials are excellent as is their IRC support
[15:03] <Randomskk> basically like sparkfun but for servers
[15:03] <Randomskk> they have in depth tutorials on doing all sorts of things with your server
[15:04] <Randomskk> in the same way that SF have in depth tutorials on doing all sorts of electronics
[15:04] <Randomskk> and decent IRC rooms with other people helping you out
[15:04] <Randomskk> and then in the time since, it's just not had any issues at all.
[15:04] <edmoore> cool
[15:04] <edmoore> 
[15:04] <edmoore> 256 deal?
[15:04] <Randomskk> 512
[15:04] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/ranger/uptime/
[15:05] <Randomskk> two restarts were me restarting the server for one reason or another, one was scheduled maintenance I heard about 24 hours before hand, one was an actual problem on their part
[15:06] <Randomskk> besides that it's just been up, fast, and no issues with resource contention from other users on the same node
[15:06] <edmoore> neat
[15:07] <edmoore> may give it a try if I end up graduating this year and loose srcf
[15:07] <sbasuita> gah
[15:07] <tonyb486> edmoore: I'm trying to do one. http://islandlabs.org/wiki/project/near_space_launch (and that page may be a bit out of date)
[15:07] <sbasuita> i'm too good at wipeout
[15:07] <sbasuita> keep hitting stuff on the ceiling XD
[15:08] <Randomskk> tonyb486: no onboard computer/radio?
[15:08] <edmoore> tonyb486: cool
[15:08] <edmoore> is island labs analogous to a hack space?
[15:08] <tonyb486> Yeah, its a hackerspace
[15:09] <edmoore> cool
[15:09] <tonyb486> We dont have a permanent space yet, but we almost do!
[15:18] <Randomskk> hmm. I'm pretty tempted to get a stencil made up for my motor controller boards
[15:18] <Randomskk> could be fun to play with
[15:20] <russss> I hear Noisebridge (san francisco hacker space) are thinking about doing some HAB too
[15:36] <edmoore> someone's gonna get transatlantic eventually
[15:36] <Randomskk> shame we can't put an HF radio on it
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> whyu not
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> ?
[15:37] <Randomskk> can we?
[15:37] <Randomskk> how do you track transatlantic, anyway?
[15:37] <edmoore> for trans, yep
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> when you're outside of the UK airspace - why not?
[15:37] <Randomskk> ah, fair enough
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> There is also http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4195375326/ for tracking
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> err
[15:37] <Randomskk> and the african countries we might end up flying over?
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> http://findmespot.com/ even
[15:37] <Randomskk> oh, yea
[15:37] <Randomskk> satellites work pretty well I guess
[15:58] <sbasuita> kind of takes away the fun though
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> And it's an opaquue un-debuggable box
[16:21] <Randomskk> natrium42 hacked one up I seem to remember
[16:21] <Randomskk> but yea, proper radio is better :P
[16:21] <Randomskk> could try using amsats
[16:21] <Randomskk> probably quite complicated though
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[16:29] <edmoore_> Randomskk: enormously
[16:29] <edmoore_> infact, ludicrously
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> steerable yagi on trans - you know you want to!
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[18:13] <RocketBoy> wow
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[18:15] <natrium42> hi
[18:15] <natrium42> freenode still having troubles?
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[18:16] <sbasuita> natrium42, nope :)
[18:17] Nick change: jasonb_ -> jasonb
[18:18] <Hiena> Muahahaha... Got another two 750W heater for the vacuform table.
[18:19] <Hiena> My electricity bill will goes to ballistic at the next year. ;)
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[21:56] <SpeedEvil> random:
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> My tesco price-grabber script popped out 56 i55054028 Energizer Ultimate Lithiumaa 4 Pack (£0.99/each) 3.97
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> which is 56% of the price in november
[22:03] <Laurenceb> tesco price grabber script?!
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> It slurps the prices from tesco.
[22:06] <Laurenceb> I see... kind of
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> Due to transport problems, I'm ordering most groceries online, once a month or so.
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> hence finding cheap stuff and ordering lots is good.
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> And they don't aways flag up the best offers.
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> Hence being able to sort by price/kg can be valuable forex.
[22:10] <Laurenceb> I guess ultimately you could input a shopping list and it would handle the rest
[22:10] <Laurenceb> that would be pretty neat
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> I'm sort-of-working on an inventory system for my phone.
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> groceries arrive - I scan them by barcode.
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> trying to maintain a stock of all stuff that lasts over 6 months
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> and is occasionally deeply discounted.
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> for example - hob nobs.
[22:13] <Laurenceb> with the camera?
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:13] <Laurenceb> neat
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> there is a barcode app already
[22:18] <Laurenceb> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1566499/nokia-n900-landing-soon
[22:18] <Laurenceb> is yours on contract?
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> no, I got it by abusing some voucher offers.
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> ending up to around a 50% discount.
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> t-mobile PAYG
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> 20 quid gets you 6 months internet
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[00:00] --- Wed Dec 23 2009