highaltitude.log.20091221

[00:00] <jcoxon> hmmm i haven't added a voltage reg
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[00:01] <jcoxon> Randomskk, would the AVR cope with not having a voltage reg?
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[00:01] <jcoxon> just having 3 AA lithiums in series?
[00:01] <Randomskk> they're what, 1.2 each?
[00:01] <jcoxon> 1.7v
[00:01] <Randomskk> oh, wrong side of 1.5
[00:01] <Randomskk> really? 1.7? jeez
[00:02] <Laurenceb> AIUI the P refers to the picopower ones
[00:02] <Randomskk> 5V avr right?
[00:02] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: I thought the A did
[00:02] <jcoxon> maybe lets pop down to 2xAA
[00:02] <Randomskk> maybe that's automotive
[00:02] <Laurenceb> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?PN=ATmega328P
[00:02] <Randomskk> looks like you're right
[00:02] <Laurenceb> yeah thats automotive
[00:03] <Randomskk> jcoxon: 1.7 * 3? 5.1V?
[00:03] <jcoxon> yeah
[00:03] <jcoxon> the radiometrix will cope
[00:03] <Randomskk> yea it'l be fine
[00:04] <jcoxon> 3x?
[00:04] <jcoxon> or 2x
[00:04] <Randomskk> 3
[00:04] <Randomskk> 2 would be not-enough for a 5V AVR
[00:04] <Randomskk> but also just-enough for a 3v3 AVR :P
[00:04] <jcoxon> it'll be fine
[00:04] <jcoxon> i won't worry
[00:05] <Randomskk> yup
[00:05] <RocketBoy> nights
[00:05] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: motor controller PCBs for the quad are finally headed my way :D
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[00:05] <Laurenceb> nice
[00:05] <Laurenceb> where from?
[00:05] <Laurenceb> I'd be careful with radiometrix modules
[00:05] <Randomskk> seeed
[00:06] <Randomskk> hoping they don't screw up the silkscreen this time
[00:06] <Randomskk> left it too late for GP and batchpcb take even longer
[00:06] <Laurenceb> in my experience they can chuck out horrible supply rail noise when enabled/disabled
[00:06] <Randomskk> though I did have them send it to cambridge so I won't get them until next term
[00:07] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, its only a backup beacon :-p
[00:08] <Laurenceb> I'm going to use my cc1020 eval boards for my next flight
[00:08] <jcoxon> oh cool - have they arrived?
[00:08] <Laurenceb> whenever I manage that
[00:09] <jcoxon> hehe
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[00:11] <jcoxon> Randomskk, oh damn - the radiometrix wants 3v logic
[00:11] <jcoxon> i'll use a 3.3v avr and 2x AAs to power
[00:11] <Randomskk> yup.
[00:14] <jcoxon> oh wait - datasheet:
[00:14] <jcoxon> absolute ratings:
[00:14] <jcoxon> Vcc, TXD (pins 5,7) -0.3V to +16.0V
[00:14] <jcoxon> En (pin 4) -0.3V to +Vcc V
[00:15] <jcoxon> hmmm nah ignore that i'll go for 2xAA
[00:15] <jcoxon> right night all
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[01:02] <Randomskk> woo, ponoko is now all set to make my case, design reviewed, materials reviewed and selected and reserved etc, just gotta wait for the laser cutter to get to me now
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[01:02] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:03] <Randomskk> then they'll post it to me, like a month or more later I'll finally get all the pieces... and it'l turn out the slots are not big enough, or too big, or the drill holes are not in the right place, or....
[01:03] <Randomskk> inkscape seems really really shit at getting things to the right coordinates with any degree of accuracy
[01:03] <Randomskk> I type in one number and shortly afterwards it is something else
[01:03] <Randomskk> so in the end I made each little part in a separate file, merged them all together into one final file and didn't check any positions
[01:03] <Randomskk> a quantum state that the laser cutter will resolve
[01:04] <Randomskk> or collapse, I guess :P
[01:04] Action: SpeedEvil imagines Randomskk's design turning out as a cutout of a dead cat.
[01:06] <Randomskk> haha
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[09:02] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:09] <bt42> hello
[09:13] <jcoxon> hey bt42
[09:35] <jcoxon> nearly ordered everything for BH4 - yay
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[10:43] <rjharrison_> Anyone sending anything up soon
[10:43] <rjharrison_> Can't wait to test out my new QTH as a listening post
[10:44] <rjharrison_> Oooh I need to update my coords on dl-fldigi
[10:45] <rjharrison_> Humm I wonder if I can get a GPS fix indoors in the attic!
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[11:08] <rjharrison_> Wow GPS has me to with 30 cm of actual position
[11:08] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker/map.php?height=800
[11:08] <rjharrison_> Icarus
[11:12] <Laurenceb> lassen iq?
[11:13] <Laurenceb> muhaha t
[11:13] <Laurenceb> the internet knows where you live
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> 'you had me at $GPRMC'
[11:17] <russss> heh
[11:18] <Laurenceb> if thats not a fluke its interesting
[11:18] <Laurenceb> Ive never been too sure about google maps accuracy
[11:18] <Laurenceb> certainly when it launched there were huge errors of several hundered meters
[11:19] <Laurenceb> and they seemed to gradually correct it
[11:21] <rjharrison_> That is quite amazing
[11:21] <rjharrison_> I was rather surprised myself
[11:22] <Laurenceb> it might be a fluke]
[11:22] <rjharrison_> Laurenceb GM data is pretty accurate give the landings recently
[11:23] <rjharrison_> Out by a few meteres at most. I would guess it's more likely that the RX's are out rather than the map
[11:23] <Laurenceb> when I was working with hallam on software gps we were trying to use GM to test it, but unsure of the accuracy
[11:23] <rjharrison_> Though I could be wrong
[11:23] <Laurenceb> we were down to ~5m 3D error using GM and ordinancy survey
[11:24] <rjharrison_> Laurenceb, nice
[11:24] <Laurenceb> yeah, we wanted to add ionospheric correction and things, but it was hard to see the difference in performance
[11:25] <Laurenceb> suggesting the map was out by several meters
[11:25] <rjharrison_> :-)
[11:26] <russss> I guess the only way to properly do that is to rent a really high-grade GPS receiver
[11:26] <rjharrison_> Military stuff
[11:26] <Laurenceb> theres survey ones
[11:26] <russss> yeah, there are survey-grade receivers
[11:26] <russss> which do a lot of averaging
[11:26] <russss> leave them there for a couple of hours
[11:27] <rjharrison_> Cool, you learn somthing new everyday :)
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> average for >1 day
[11:27] <rjharrison_> How accurate is that
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> with consumer gps
[11:27] <rjharrison_> cm's
[11:27] <rjharrison_> mm?
[11:28] <russss> http://www.sokkia.com/Products/Detail/70.aspx
[11:28] <russss> millimeter
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> see http://www.mauve.plus.com/scatter.gif
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> oops
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> wrong pic
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> That's fuel use vs rpm on my car
[11:29] <rjharrison_> SpeedEvil nice pic
[11:29] <rjharrison_> I did wonder for a moment there
[11:29] <russss> nice graph
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/gps-average.gif
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> this is a garmin gps-12
[11:30] <rjharrison_> most cool SpeedEvil
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> 10s averages are red dots, green 100 second, magenta circles 1 hour, cyan squares 6 hours, and black 24h.
[11:30] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: SSTL used a similar technique, their receiver and a cheap trimble one averaged for a week
[11:30] <rjharrison_> I will have a go at that one day
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> the structure in the red dots is due to the limited output precision of the gps
[11:31] <rjharrison_> SpeedEvil how did you know where 0,0 is
[11:32] <rjharrison_> ir did you take the average over the whole period for 0,0,
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:32] <rjharrison_> Cool
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> no google maps back then
[11:32] <rjharrison_> Right i must do some work
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[11:59] <Laurenceb> sjrandall: is the rockweel jupiter gps still spare?
[11:59] <Laurenceb> I might be interested if it has 10khz output
[12:00] <Laurenceb> for making some radio PLL stuff
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[12:10] <sjrandall> Laurenceb: yes tis still spare - its like this one http://www.gpskit.nl/gps-readme.html - which has a 10KHz output
[12:10] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:11] <Laurenceb> power hungry
[12:11] <sjrandall> yeah
[12:29] <juxta_> hi sjrandall
[12:36] <juxta_> if you're around, was going to let you know I got that royaltech working
[12:42] <Laurenceb> one is finding ones position
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> One is pissed off at the ecofreaks on radio 4.
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Whole half-hour on the global warming output of the textile industry.
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> ending up at how much CO2 is produced by one cotton t-shirt.
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Omitting to mention that a polyester one produces less.
[12:49] <sjrandall> juxta_: cool
[12:50] <sjrandall> bbl
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[13:28] <edmoore> jonsowman: just fyi, no sign of bus pirates. am chasing it up with SS
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[13:29] <russss> oh, mine haven't arrive either if it helps.
[13:29] <russss> they told me they'd shipped, I think.
[13:30] <russss> yeah. Shipped 21st October.
[13:31] Action: Laurenceb looks at buspriate specs
[13:31] <Laurenceb> its not bad
[13:31] <russss> I actually bought some stock, so if anyone wants one they will be for sale. When they arrive.
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[13:34] <edmoore> russss: ok, that's reassuring, thanks
[13:34] <edmoore> we got an email confirming shipping about 2 weeks ago
[13:34] <russss> edmoore: looking at the tracking on the hong kong post site shows that it was only posted on the 7th of december though (!)
[13:34] <russss> their shipping is notoriously slow.
[13:35] <edmoore> don't think i'll bother with them again in the future
[13:37] <russss> the thing is open-source. Maybe I should knock up some masks and try and build some myself. Charge a premium for shipping in a sane amount of time.
[13:42] <edmoore> not a bad idea
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[13:52] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[13:57] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[13:57] <edmoore> what's new - have you heard anything from the french?
[13:57] <jcoxon> yeah, after quite a few emails etc they say they have found the people who have it
[13:57] <jcoxon> and one of the local hams is going to collect it
[13:58] <jcoxon> its all got a bit out of hand really
[14:00] <edmoore> still, it'll make it back
[14:00] <edmoore> biabb
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[14:03] <jcoxon> yeah and we now have potential listeners in france
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[14:14] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[14:24] <DanielRichman> I've got Aluminium Square Hollow Tubing (Antenna Boom) and enough Al and Brass to build all the elements. If I simply drill a 4mm hole, shove a 4mm element through it and then apply araldite, is that reliable enough, since I have to be sure that there will be a good electrical connection
[14:24] <DanielRichman> or alternatively, I could try and design it in such a way that the elements are totally insulated from the boom, however, that sounds like more effort if the above is reliable enough... (is it?)
[14:25] <DanielRichman> ping sbasuita
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[14:29] <edmoore> DanielRichman: you're correct that that is the choice
[14:30] <DanielRichman> How reliable do you reckon a 4mm hole to 4mm ele friction fit is electrically?
[14:30] <edmoore> insulated from boom or not insulated from boom, and the design of the antenna (in terms of element length and spacing) very much depends on that choice
[14:30] <DanielRichman> The design of the antenna is easily changed; there's a nice radio button to let me choose bonded through boom, insulated through boom or standoffs
[14:30] <DanielRichman> I'm thinking of construction complexity
[14:31] <edmoore> it wouldn't be particularl reliable, i don't think. You might want to try putting a jacket of silicon tubing over the elements and going for a definitely insulated design
[14:31] <DanielRichman> Okey, I'll do that
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> Intermetalic junctions are hard to get reliable
[14:32] <edmoore> maybe heatshrink
[14:33] <DanielRichman> Someone recommended heatshrink tubing a while ago; heatshrink + glue gun
[14:34] <DanielRichman> However I might choose heatshrink + araldite instead
[14:34] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, maybe gluegun to position it then araldite to set it
[14:35] <DanielRichman> Ok, but If I'm drilling and poking it through a hole it shouldn't be all that mobile
[14:35] <edmoore> that would probably do the trick nicely
[14:35] <edmoore> #hamradio may have more experience with this sort of thing
[14:36] <jcoxon> edmoore, http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:ballasthalo:ballasthalo4#backup_cw_beacon
[14:37] <edmoore> give it a second - am on GPRS as for some reason I have the only laptop in the house that won't connect to our wifi router
[14:38] <edmoore> ah, looks bootfiul
[14:38] <jcoxon> pretty much ordered everything for BH4
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[15:27] <edmoore> How To Make Mum Happy This Christmas Top #1 : When wireless router doesn't work, traipse a 30m ethernet cable through the hall, over the decorations, and across the living room to your laptop.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> Silly person.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> You wrap it in tinsle.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> tinsel
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> then it's decorative
[15:36] <edmoore> that's a good idea
[15:36] <edmoore> it's fit right it
[15:37] <edmoore> not that there seems to be any tinsel anywhere in the house
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> http://www.shopwiki.co.uk/_Premier+8-Ply+Green+&+Gold+Decorative+Tinsel+2Mtr
[15:43] <RocketBoy> More stuff to freecycle: http://ukhas.org.uk/misc:ukhas_freecycle
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[16:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2009/december/21/steam_wins_the_day.aspx
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[19:28] <edmoore> jcoxon: yo
[19:41] <jcoxon> hey
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[20:01] <ssapphiree> hi all)
[20:02] <Randomskk> yo
[20:05] <edmoore> hi ssapphiree
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[23:05] <Xenion> Gute Nacht / Good Night - pennt jut
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[00:00] --- Tue Dec 22 2009