highaltitude.log.20091215

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[00:20] <jcoxon> hey all
[00:21] <MikeMc> hey
[00:21] <jcoxon> what have i missed/
[00:21] <jcoxon> ?
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[00:22] <MikeMc> some french dudes were looking for the balloon
[00:22] <jcoxon> oh
[00:22] <jcoxon> hope no one is making a fuss
[00:22] <jcoxon> its not the end of the world not to get it back
[00:22] <MikeMc> AlexBreton was waking up some HAMS in some french village
[00:22] <MikeMc> lol
[00:23] <jcoxon> oh
[00:23] <jcoxon> i hope they arent upset
[00:23] <MikeMc> and he also called some guys something to do with french airspace control or something
[00:23] <jcoxon> and also i wsn't planning to give a reward
[00:23] <MikeMc> lol
[00:25] <natrium42> jcoxon, too late XD
[00:26] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[00:27] <jcoxon> well if ALexBreton is back on - please tell him not to fuss
[00:28] <jcoxon> if they want to find it in their free time fair enough but its not vital to get it back
[00:30] <MikeMc> i think he also mobilised a local TA centre to look for it
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[00:31] <jcoxon> :-(
[00:35] <Randomskk> woo
[00:35] <Randomskk> brand new computer
[00:35] <Randomskk> assembled
[00:35] <Randomskk> now I do the pagen ritual of installing a new and legal copy of windows 7
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> My last brand new computer came in the post.
[00:35] <Randomskk> later I cleanse it by installing ubuntu as well
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> And was fully assembled.
[00:35] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: the parts for mine came in the post
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> With linux even.
[00:36] <SpeedEvil> And it fits in my pocket.
[00:36] <Randomskk> exciting
[00:36] <Randomskk> phone?
[00:36] <Randomskk> or large pocket?
[00:36] <SpeedEvil> Especially when it vibrates.
[00:36] <SpeedEvil> n900 - gotten at a very steep discount
[00:36] <Randomskk> oh sweet
[00:36] <Randomskk> they look fantastic
[00:36] <Randomskk> I mean, I do really like my android phone
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> There are - at the moment - few apps for it.
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> As in ~0 serious ones.
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> But you can run pretty much any gtk app in principle, with light porting
[00:37] <Randomskk> yea
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> Well - actually - there are maybe 10-15 actually useful small apps
[00:38] <Randomskk> android has a compass app that was handy when pointing my yagi
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> but it's been out ~1 month - so...
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> no compass hardware alas.
[00:38] <Randomskk> and all sorts of other neat apps
[00:38] <Randomskk> but eww java for the android sdk
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> I'd like to add one, but suspect that may void the warranty
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> it would be trivial - just 4 wires onto the back of the accellerometer.
[00:39] <Randomskk> that could be neat
[00:39] <EI5GTB> yo guys, hows atlas doing?
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> Somewhere in france.
[00:40] <EI5GTB> lost position?
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> last position was at ~12km altitude
[00:40] <EI5GTB> hmm.... on the way down?
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[00:40] <SpeedEvil> And barring someone going over to france to pick it up, we're hoping french hams will be able to help
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> yes
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacenear.us/tracker/
[00:44] <EI5GTB> heh, yea
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[00:44] <EI5GTB> pitty, i was offered a run in a lorry to france.. but he isnt leaving for a week
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[00:46] <jcoxon> new images: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157621083447545/
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[00:53] <juxta_> hi all
[00:54] <jcoxon> hey juxta_
[00:55] <juxta_> hey jcoxon - how did the flight go after I went to bed?
[00:55] <juxta_> looks like you made it to france :)
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[01:01] <jcoxon> yeah we made it to france
[01:01] <jcoxon> its come down, not sure exactly where
[01:01] <jcoxon> really pushed the range of the radio
[01:01] <jcoxon> and the secondary board died
[01:02] <jcoxon> right bed for me, sorry juxta_!
[01:02] <jcoxon> night
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[01:03] <juxta_> Randomskk: how far did your yagi manage?
[01:04] <Randomskk> not checked yet, netbook can't run google earth
[01:04] <Randomskk> I got msg 1040 in the end
[01:05] <juxta_> let me turn on my desktop and check ;p
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[01:06] <juxta> Randomskk: ~300km :)
[01:06] <Randomskk> wicked
[01:06] <Randomskk> thanks
[01:06] <juxta> np
[01:07] <juxta> got any photos of your yagi?
[01:07] <Randomskk> wish I'd tried that LSB thing earlier, could have got more packets before that one
[01:07] <Randomskk> after that the signal faded a load
[01:07] <Randomskk> yea, but they're on the camera still
[01:07] <Randomskk> only made it last night/early morning
[01:07] <Randomskk> so photographed the build
[01:07] <juxta> ahh
[01:07] <Randomskk> will be uploading to flickr shortly
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> lsb thing
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> ?
[01:07] <Randomskk> actually what the heck, will upload to flickr now
[01:07] <juxta> well let me know when they're up ;p
[01:07] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: for some reason having the radio in USB was not picking it up
[01:07] <juxta> yeah I was going to ask what you meant by LSB thing
[01:07] <Randomskk> but swapping it to LSB magically made it work
[01:08] <Randomskk> two others noticed this first
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> it wasn't simply outside the passband?
[01:08] <Randomskk> including the guy getting a crazy long range
[01:08] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: not as far as I coudl tell
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> off
[01:08] <Randomskk> I was tuning it aruond and adjusting my filters to check
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> odd
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> interfering signal in band ?
[01:08] <Randomskk> I couldn't hear any but perhaps something like that
[01:08] <Randomskk> but doing it LSB should get all the same signals
[01:08] <Randomskk> I have no idea why it worked
[01:09] <juxta> whoa, G8KHW got 360km
[01:10] <juxta> is that Steve?
[01:10] <Randomskk> check out djellison
[01:10] <juxta> what's his callsign?
[01:10] <Randomskk> 427km
[01:10] <Randomskk> not sure
[01:10] <juxta> whoa
[01:10] <juxta> that's impressive
[01:10] <Randomskk> but 427km with a handheld yagi! bloody heck
[01:10] <juxta> from a 10mw module
[01:10] <Randomskk> yea
[01:10] <Randomskk> the 10mw makes the whole thing crazy
[01:10] <juxta> that's getting close to the horizon limit
[01:11] <Randomskk> apparently he did
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[01:11] <Randomskk> houses etc raised his local horizon and once LoS was lost that was it
[01:11] <juxta> hehe
[01:12] <juxta> pity no french hams were onboard
[01:13] <Randomskk> yea
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[01:16] <Randomskk> hey juxta http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4185755619/
[01:16] <Randomskk> will get some better photos of the entire thing in the future
[01:16] <Randomskk> and also upload the build photos
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[01:36] <juxta> lemme see Randomskk
[01:36] <juxta> nice work, that turned out great!
[01:36] <SpeedEvil> neat
[01:38] <Randomskk> soldering to anodised aluminium: omg
[01:38] <Randomskk> basically turned into scratch it a lot, press metal up against it, get lots of solder on there, keep it in place with a cable tie, then epoxy the thing to death
[01:38] <Randomskk> however it definitely works
[01:38] <juxta> yeah soldering to alu is almost impossible
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> cover with oil
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> scratch up
[01:39] <juxta> i've heard the oil thing, havent tried it
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> while still covered with oil
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> solder through the oil
[01:39] <juxta> stands to reason that it should though
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[07:45] <hsmith> What's the news from BallastHalo 3?
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[08:25] <juxta_> hi edmoore
[08:25] <edmoore> good moning!
[08:25] <juxta_> (evening ;p)
[08:26] <MikeMc> morning all
[08:27] <edmoore> how's it going?
[08:27] <juxta_> had a brief chat to James this morning/last night, what happened with the balloon in the end edmoore?
[08:27] <juxta_> a board failed or something?
[08:27] <edmoore> assume most of you guys saw that james had put some launch piccies up?
[08:27] <juxta_> oh, nice, where abouts?
[08:27] <edmoore> juxta_: he things the 2nd board (the sensor board) might have gone down
[08:27] <edmoore> primary fliht cmputer was fine
[08:27] <edmoore> it sounds like the balloon just gave up after several hours
[08:28] <edmoore> juxta_: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/
[08:28] <MikeMc> launch pics?
[08:28] <MikeMc> is that Robert on there too?
[08:30] <edmoore> me
[08:30] <juxta_> cheers edmoore
[08:30] <MikeMc> oh
[08:31] <juxta_> I heard djellison managed ~430km range also
[08:31] <edmoore> not bad on 10mW UHF :)
[08:31] <juxta_> tell me about it :D
[08:31] <juxta_> dinner it seems, back later
[08:41] Nick change: Guest70634 -> grummund
[08:42] Nick change: grummund -> Guest99127
[08:45] Nick change: Guest99127 -> grummund
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[08:55] <jcoxon> morning
[08:58] <edmoore> morning jcoxon
[08:58] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[08:58] <jcoxon> wow i was tired last night
[09:03] <jcoxon> edmoore, what was the final payload weight?
[09:03] <edmoore> jcoxon: not surpurised!
[09:04] <jcoxon> am filling in the float parameter graph
[09:04] <edmoore> jcoxon: 1700 before mass loss event
[09:04] <jcoxon> so 1600 post?
[09:04] <edmoore> sounds about right
[09:05] <jcoxon> hmmm how shall we define float
[09:05] <jcoxon> i reckon between +1 and -1
[09:05] <edmoore> average ascent over 20 mins < | 0.5m/s | ?
[09:05] <edmoore> ok, though that may be a bit on the high side I reckon
[09:06] <edmoore> am going to grab some breakfast and walk into town
[09:06] <edmoore> bbl
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[09:37] <hsmith> Has the track been lost?
[09:38] Nick change: gordonjc1 -> gordonjcp
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[10:15] <jcoxon> hsmith, yeah it landed in france
[10:22] <MikeMc> it has contact details on it right?
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[10:22] <MikeMc> so hopefully someone will find it and contact you
[10:23] <russss> are the french guys going to try and locate it? how long will the battery last?
[10:26] <edmoore> russss: I thank James said of the order of 30 hours
[10:26] <edmoore> so they've got until this evening
[10:28] <russss> it should go into a low-power mode when it detects it's landed :P
[10:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:33] <russss> it could switch the GPS and any daughterboards off, and reduce the transmission frequency
[10:33] <russss> (as in, frequency of transmissions)
[10:36] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:37] <jcoxon> i never expected to get this one back
[10:37] <edmoore> it really should fly itself home once it's landed
[10:37] <edmoore> why didn't you think of that jcoxon?
[10:37] <russss> lol
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[10:39] <MikeMc> yeah fit wheels to teh payload and an RC receiver
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[10:42] <jcoxon> next time
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[10:46] <jcoxon> :-)
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[11:16] <jcoxon> payload recovered
[11:16] <jcoxon> :-p
[11:16] <jcoxon> edmoore, ping
[11:17] <russss> haha cool :)
[11:17] <jcoxon> i think the lady might have though i was patronising - oops :-p
[11:18] <junderwood_> Where was it?
[11:18] <junderwood_> (don't say France)
[11:19] <jcoxon> they are just emailing me the coords
[11:29] <jcoxon> junderwood_, on the phone she said near Aunou Sur Orne, France
[11:29] <jcoxon> in a field
[11:29] <MikeMc> really?
[11:29] <MikeMc> Someone just found it in a field?
[11:29] <jcoxon> yup
[11:29] <jcoxon> chatted on the phone
[11:29] <MikeMc> cool
[11:30] <jcoxon> i think they are horse breeders
[11:30] <MikeMc> are they going to post it back to you?
[11:31] <jcoxon> its a little big to post back
[11:32] <junderwood_> Sheesh. 12 km away from my best guess :-(
[11:32] <ms7821> roadtrip
[11:32] <junderwood_> 15 from RocketBoy's coordinates :-)
[11:32] <jcoxon> junderwood_, hehe you had poor data
[11:33] <junderwood_> Have to get the French hams on board _before_ launch next time!
[11:33] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:33] <jcoxon> it was unusal winds though
[11:33] <jcoxon> next time is more likely to go out towards denmakr
[11:33] <jcoxon> denmark
[11:34] <jcoxon> ms7821, i'm slightly thinking that
[11:34] <junderwood_> Good direction for me. No hills / trees / ...
[11:34] <junderwood_> just get them to send back the circuit boards. Polystyrene is cheap!
[11:36] <jcoxon> junderwood_, its more hten just pcbs
[11:36] <ms7821> jcoxon: and fill up the car with wine for the way back
[11:36] <jcoxon> sort of need to analyse the pump etc
[11:36] <junderwood_> true
[11:36] <jcoxon> its only 5hrs drive according to RAC route mapper
[11:36] <jcoxon> oops 5hrs 56min
[11:39] <jcoxon> hope i copied down the email address correctly
[11:44] <MikeMc> yeah ask them to rip out the PCB's and stuff
[11:44] <MikeMc> and post it back
[11:45] <jcoxon> i could go and get it on hte weekend
[11:45] <junderwood_> Would have to be very expensive postage to cost more than 12 hours round trip of petrol plus insurance and ferry
[11:45] <junderwood_> less the profit on the duty-free!
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[11:53] <jcoxon> junderwood_, yeah its a tough one
[11:53] <jcoxon> i sort of feel i should get it back
[11:53] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[11:53] <jcoxon> but i'm not too keen to ask them to send it
[11:53] <jcoxon> nor strip it down
[11:54] <Laurenceb> its been found?
[11:54] <junderwood_> It's a good excuse for a booze cruise
[11:54] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, yup
[11:54] <Laurenceb> awsome
[11:55] <Randomskk> who found it?
[11:55] <Laurenceb> I think it needs a better ballast sensor
[11:56] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, certainly needs a rethink
[11:56] <jcoxon> Randomskk, umm some people in their field
[11:56] <Randomskk> nice
[11:56] <jcoxon> they called, i took an email address now waiting for a reply
[11:56] <Randomskk> interesting thing to wake up to :p
[11:57] <Laurenceb> the low burst altitude is interesting, maybe a combination of long duration at lots of stretch causing the latex to creep, together with the ozone ect at that altitude
[11:57] <Laurenceb> ~30.8Km not 34.5Km
[11:57] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i think thats probably it
[11:58] <Laurenceb> also the atmospheric model we have been using is fairly rough - in cold weather the atmosphere is more "compressed"
[11:58] <Laurenceb> so you reach low pressure lower down
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[11:58] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_height
[12:00] <Laurenceb> exponent proportional to T
[12:00] <junderwood_> Laurenceb, not convinced. Difference between nominal and 1%ile GLOBAL is only 2.5 km at that altitude.
[12:01] <Laurenceb> 1%ile?
[12:01] <junderwood_> .. and 1% global cold is Antarctica
[12:01] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah
[12:01] <Laurenceb> probably accounts for a bit of the difference
[12:01] <junderwood_> true
[12:04] <hsmith> Has it been found?
[12:04] <jcoxon> hsmith, yes
[12:04] <hsmith> HURRAY! Congrats :-)
[12:04] <hsmith> Had you lost radio?
[12:05] <jcoxon> near to the ground - yes
[12:05] <hsmith> Happens with rockets as well of course.
[12:06] <Laurenceb> junderwood_: I get about 0.5Km max for the temperature effect
[12:09] <EI5GTB> jcoxon: how was it found?
[12:12] <junderwood_> Laurenceb, that's more like it. It's still a good reason for planes not using GPS for altitude, though
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[12:13] <Laurenceb> interesting point
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[12:13] <russss> well, at altitude planes don't have anything better than GPS
[12:14] <russss> although mostly still use barometric
[12:17] Action: Laurenceb tried to remember what the Chapman equations result in...
[12:17] <Laurenceb> *tries
[12:19] <Laurenceb> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/images/ozone/altitude_med.jpg
[12:19] <Laurenceb> according to that around maximum at 25Km
[12:19] <Laurenceb> but its probably looking at volumetric concentration
[12:20] <Laurenceb> so as the balloon gets higher the envelope gets thinner and is more easily attacked
[12:20] <RocketBoy> I just calculated the line of sight distance for 12Km height - where I lost the signal last night - 390Km - which is more or less the distance I was hearing it over
[12:20] <Laurenceb> theres monatomic oxygen as well, and other free radiacals
[12:21] <Laurenceb> were you on a hill?
[12:21] <RocketBoy> cliftops with a clear view
[12:21] <Laurenceb> Dover?
[12:21] <RocketBoy> na felixstowe
[12:22] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:22] <Laurenceb> someone made a joke about that aerlier, I got confused :P
[12:22] <RocketBoy> I think the next nearest land was over the horizon
[12:23] <Laurenceb> pity we didnt fly a ZP
[12:23] <russss> are zero pressure balloons more expensive?
[12:23] <edmoore> what altitude is the ozone layer, OOI?
[12:23] <Laurenceb> then again it would probably have ended up over everyones horizon over France and wed have no French listeners mustered in to help
[12:23] <Laurenceb> edmoore: 25Km for number density
[12:23] <RocketBoy> 12K was where I lost data - but I could see it on the waterfall for much longer
[12:24] <Laurenceb> but I think thats not as important as the fraction of ozone
[12:24] <Laurenceb> if you think about how the envelope expands
[12:24] <Laurenceb> to thats probably going to hit a maximum around 30Km, right where we were hovering
[12:25] <Laurenceb> *floating
[12:27] <Laurenceb> to be honest I'm unconvinced about how important it is... but if you consider the envelope is 4 microns thick at 30Km then I guess its very easy for free radicals to cause damage
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[12:30] <Laurenceb> russss: none makes small zero pressure envelopes commercially
[12:30] <jcoxon> i think the best option for recovery is to ask them to turn it upside down for a bit to drain the ballast then lots of bin bags and post it back
[12:30] <Laurenceb> tell them not to drink it
[12:30] <russss> heh
[12:31] <junderwood_> No lighted matches either
[12:31] <Laurenceb> well I've gtg, good luck with recovery
[12:31] <junderwood_> I hope you have found one of the 10% of French who don't smoke :-)
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[12:33] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: I thought you were planning on going over
[12:33] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, its a long way :-p
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[12:36] <rjw57> edmoore: A little bird tells me that the balloon has been found?
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> horse breeders found it in field
[12:38] <rjw57> Cool
[12:38] Action: rjw57 is impressed the contact details were still legibile
[12:38] <rjw57> being as, IIRC, they were written with whiteboard marker :)
[12:38] <edmoore> rjw57: I don't think the bird would appreciate being called littlke
[12:38] <edmoore> little*
[12:39] <rjw57> heh
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[12:44] <edmoore> /msg NickServ identify edmoore 87moore
[12:44] <rjw57> fail....
[12:45] <edmoore> oh great
[12:46] #highaltitude: mode change '+o edmoore' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[12:46] <edmoore> forget what you just saw or you're all dead
[12:47] Action: SpeedEvil forgets it 87 times.
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[12:49] <rjw57> :)
[12:49] <edmoore> phew
[12:49] <edmoore> ok
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[13:31] <readingschool> Hey
[13:31] <readingschool> any progress on the balloon?
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> it was found in a field in france, drenched in alcohol.
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> Much like many students.
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[13:34] <SpeedEvil> Negotiations are currently underway as to exactly how it's going to be recovered.
[13:35] <readingschool> nice
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[13:40] <russss> someone should email the list with the details
[13:40] <russss> I might do that.
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[14:11] <notpod> drenched in alcohol? back story?
[14:11] <russss> the ballast was alcohol
[14:12] <notpod> ok, I thought for a second the french were planning to burn it, lol
[14:16] <notpod> anyway I came over from #hamradio after a call for french hams went out, I enjoyed following what I did, seems like a lot of fun and goodtimes, glad it was found, glad it didnt land on anything. good luck with the recovery!
[14:16] <russss> cool :)
[14:16] <russss> yeah, I think we got lucky. Usually they land in trees.
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> any gnuplot clues?
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> I mean anyone with a clue of gnuplot
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> I want to plot a sliding average - do I have to preprocess the data?
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[14:27] <russss> SpeedEvil: yeah, I think you do
[14:27] <russss> I used to use gnuplot all the time
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> I am working on my diet.
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> With gnuplot and awk
[14:28] <russss> now I prefer NumPy/SciPy/Matplotlib http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> oh well - sliding window in awk it is for now
[14:30] <russss> heh
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> Trying to plot stuff like calories per day vs weight delta now and 2 days after as a scatterplot
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[16:22] <hascent> has there been any feedback from yesterday's flight of BallastHalo 3 from France?
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[16:23] <edmoore> hascent: they've found it
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[16:23] <hascent> swweet
[16:23] <hascent> was the flight a success in testing ballast?
[16:23] <edmoore> nope
[16:23] <edmoore> it sort of established float but then the balloon burst
[16:23] <edmoore> requires some investigation
[16:23] <DanielRichman> edmoore: who found it?
[16:24] <edmoore> Horse trainers
[16:24] <DanielRichman> Not the French HAMs?
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[16:26] <hascent> The failure is still useful to learn from
[16:27] <hascent> Radio reception into France with the NTX2s is impressive
[16:27] <russss> it was a good run, and even better to get a recovery
[16:28] <hascent> have anyone looked at non-latex balloons, less prone to bursts?
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[16:29] <russss> I think it's pretty hard to come across non-latex balloons.
[16:30] <hascent> From the description, with a desired vent in the balloon (1.5mm or so) that might have contributed tothe tear
[16:31] <russss> if it didn't have the vent it would have bust a lot sooner
[16:31] <russss> :P
[16:31] <hascent> true!
[16:31] <hascent> but perhaps a reinforced area, woven etc, could prevent that.... but then how that is done is beyond me
[16:32] <russss> well the zero-pressure balloons are made of polyethene
[16:32] <russss> and that's what you want for very long duration flights
[16:32] <russss> but apparently it's near on impossible to get those in small sizes
[16:32] <hascent> that seems stable, especially at lower temsp
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[16:33] <hascent> where do most of you get the latex balloons in the UK
[16:33] <hascent> ?
[16:33] <edmoore> RocketBoy
[16:34] <Randomskk> huh. spike lives just down the road frmo here
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[16:40] <hascent> what town was the payload found in? any ideas?
[16:41] <junderwood__> Aunou Sur Orne
[16:41] <hascent> thanks
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[18:04] <edmoore> a friend from cued gave me a wav file of some really weak signals he recorded from BH3, definitely beyond where Fldigi breaks down. My decoding algorithm got completely upset because it reckons there are three major peaks in the freq domain, whereas there should only be two for RTTY
[18:04] <edmoore> i thought it was a bug
[18:05] <edmoore> infact it was 50Hz mains hum
[18:05] <edmoore> d'oh
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[18:56] <edmoore> yo
[18:56] #highaltitude: mode change '+o edmoore' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:56] #highaltitude: mode change '-o edmoore' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[19:05] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:05] b3cft (n=abrock@nat/yahoo/x-kybadnkvddroemay) left irc:
[19:06] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[19:06] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[19:10] <Randomskk> edmoore: are you essentially making a more noise-resistant rtty decoder?
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[19:12] <Randomskk> lol
[19:12] <Randomskk> gj calvino
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[19:22] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by irc.freenode.net
[19:22] Topic changed on #highaltitude by !irc.freenode.net: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[19:27] <edmoore> how long till the next one
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[19:28] <RocketBoy> have cusf anything planned?
[19:28] <sbasuita> edmoore, did you download the wav i uploaded?
[19:29] <edmoore> sbasuita: yes
[19:29] <edmoore> thanks
[19:29] <edmoore> RocketBoy: not before christmas
[19:30] <Randomskk> edmoore: not sure if the netsplit ate your reply
[19:30] <Randomskk> working on a better rtty decoder?
[19:31] <edmoore> looking at something that might help, yep
[19:31] <Randomskk> cool
[19:31] <Randomskk> it is so frustrating to be able to hear the rtty but fldigi can't decode it :p
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[19:47] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, hi
[19:47] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, we ordered the balloon and chute
[19:47] <DanielRichman> ping AlexBreton
[19:47] <AlexBreton> ywhat?
[19:48] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, RocketBoy is here (but AFK, apparently :)
[19:49] <AlexBreton> k
[19:50] <jcoxon> AlexBreton, thanks for the calling of french hams last night
[19:50] <jcoxon> i was worried that tehy might get too professional and expect fees!
[19:50] Action: SpeedEvil prefers italian ham.
[19:51] <AlexBreton> jcoxon, no prob
[19:57] <natrium42> jcoxon, no calls from france yet?
[19:58] <AlexBreton> I believe it has been found ;-)
[19:58] <natrium42> orly?
[19:58] <natrium42> how?
[19:58] <natrium42> tell me!
[19:58] <AlexBreton> some horse riders found it
[19:59] <natrium42> ooh, cool
[19:59] <natrium42> so are they returning it?
[19:59] <natrium42> or "finders -- keepers"?
[19:59] <AlexBreton> I guess so
[19:59] <AlexBreton> lol
[20:00] <natrium42> "losers -- weepers"
[20:00] <natrium42> so where did it land?
[20:01] <AlexBreton> somewhere in the Orne region
[20:03] <natrium42> ah
[20:03] <natrium42> it was a lot of fun following it :)
[20:04] <jcoxon> anyone on google wave here?
[20:04] <natrium42> yes sir
[20:04] <natrium42> as natrium
[20:04] <AlexBreton> idd
[20:04] <AlexBreton> the ALIEN team is all on wave
[20:05] <jcoxon> am adding people to my contacts
[20:05] <jcoxon> or if anyone wants an invite
[20:06] <sbasuita> jcoxon, simrunbasuita a t googlewave dot com
[20:06] <sbasuita> Hah, I've got 25 invites now ;P
[20:06] <AlexBreton> so do I
[20:06] <AlexBreton> bretonalexander1@googlewave.com
[20:08] <DanielRichman> danieljonathanrichman@googlewave.com, I think
[20:09] <natrium42> longest email ever
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[20:10] <DanielRichman> natrium42, I don't use it as an email
[20:10] <natrium42> :P
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[20:13] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: I got your order - it should be in the post tomorrow
[20:13] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, great :)
[20:13] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, just to confirm, you added some nylon rope?
[20:14] <DanielRichman> ping AlexBreton
[20:14] <DanielRichman> also Alex, go find us some sponsors
[20:14] <edmoore> GCSE cru (I don't mean that patronisingly, just for the sake of ease), when are you looking at launching?
[20:14] <DanielRichman> call Micro$ft. As much as i hate it...
[20:14] <sbasuita> edmoore, well, waiting for the weather really
[20:14] <RocketBoy> sbasuita:yes
[20:14] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, thanks a bunch
[20:14] <DanielRichman> edmoore, depends on weather, and the school would like it extra if we could raise a small amount from sponsorship
[20:14] <sbasuita> edmoore, we need to tie up the payload, and then that's it
[20:14] <DanielRichman> ie. make it a self sufficient project
[20:15] <edmoore> DanielRichman: are they funding it then?
[20:15] <sbasuita> sponsorship also
[20:15] <sbasuita> edmoore, they are funding this, but want us to fund future launches
[20:15] <edmoore> cool
[20:15] <DanielRichman> edmoore, to a certain extent. We've used the blag-factor as much as possible
[20:15] <DanielRichman> edmoore, but school has bought balloon
[20:15] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, Microsoft partner school + Blag factor + Christmas = Get us some flipping money.
[20:16] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, don't forget to bring in some lithiums for steve
[20:16] <sbasuita> I think the best way to do it is: 1) Companies already affiliated with school 2) Companies already affiliated with HAB 3) Local tech companies
[20:16] <sbasuita> in order of importance
[20:17] <jcoxon> sbasuita, don't push the affiliated HAB companies too much
[20:18] <sbasuita> jcoxon, hmm, ok
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> as most of them are teeny
[20:18] <jcoxon> as there are quite a few of us :-p
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> (comparatively)
[20:19] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, did you add me on the wave :P ?
[20:20] <jcoxon> don't think so
[20:21] <DanielRichman> No rush. When you do, make a wave with all the other HABers so we can get each other's addresses, if there's more than just me alex and sbasuita
[20:21] <jcoxon> whats your email address
[20:23] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, danieljonathanrichman@googlewave.com, bretonalexander1@googlewave.com, simrunbasuita a t googlewave dot com
[20:24] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i don't know why you bothered with the a t and the dot
[20:24] <DanielRichman> you can't spam that address, can you?
[20:24] <DanielRichman> besides, most harvesters can recognise those addresses now.
[20:24] <jcoxon> already have simrun
[20:25] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yes, but an obscure address puts me out of the target audience
[20:25] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, besides, all your spam are belong to google's filter. Why bother?
[20:26] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, fix the cause not the symptom
[20:26] <DanielRichman> Ha.
[20:26] <DanielRichman> There's too many causes to count
[20:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, btw, the tech guys said that next year, after having finished building their UAV, they want me to help design the autopilot
[20:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i'm sure there are already open source autopilots that would do a great job
[20:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, designing the hardware
[20:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, oh right, a laptop should do no?
[20:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, obviously you need more than that
[20:28] <DanielRichman> and no
[20:28] <DanielRichman> laptop is too overpowered and heavy
[20:28] <DanielRichman> an atmega would do fine
[20:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, netbook style
[20:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it's not going to be a harrier, it will pretty much stable all the time anyway
[20:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, right, but a kernel would be nice for multitasking
[20:29] <DanielRichman> not worth the weight. Multitasking with AVRs is slightly long winded but fine tbh
[20:29] <DanielRichman> Our flight computer is "multitasking" in that nothing blocks; everything is an interrupt
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, its meant to carry supplies right? A netbook really is a fraction of the weight surely.
[20:30] <DanielRichman> a few gyros, an accelerometer, gps, and a hell of a lot of hench servos.
[20:30] <DanielRichman> edmoore, when you uplink to your balloon, and you're using your HAM license to do so, who do you address the messages to, since you're not allowed to "broadcast" and the payload doesn't have a callsign?
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, or do a gumstix
[20:31] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it's not broadcast. And you only have to supply your own callsign.
[20:31] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, Are you sure? I'm pretty sure your message has to either be going somewhere, or be a CQ
[20:31] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it's going to the balloon
[20:32] <DanielRichman> *going to an Amateur
[20:32] <jcoxon> sbasuita, DanielRichman unfortunately i think i'm going to have to request the return of my ft790
[20:32] <jcoxon> its time it came home, i haven't seen it in months :-p
[20:32] <DanielRichman> That is one hell of a coincidence. We were actually discussing that in skype :P
[20:32] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I wonder if he just uses 10mw transmit power or what
[20:33] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I seem to remember some mention of 400W
[20:33] <Randomskk> I really doubt anyone is putting out 400W on 434mhz
[20:33] <Randomskk> edmoore's radio will only do 35 there anyway
[20:33] <sbasuita> That would be total overkill
[20:33] <DanielRichman> When they were testing their uplink, I mean
[20:33] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you are buying an 817 soon though right?
[20:33] <DanielRichman> as it got really high they boosted the power to see what they could get
[20:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yeah
[20:33] <Randomskk> 35 is the most they used on the uplink test I saw
[20:33] <DanielRichman> Whatever, 35W > 10mW
[20:33] <edmoore> you can operate equipment by remote control with your license
[20:34] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, how long?
[20:34] <Randomskk> edmoore: ha, does that count?
[20:34] <DanielRichman> edmoore, ah, ok
[20:34] <edmoore> it's like making an uplink to a hamsat if you are its operator
[20:34] <Randomskk> neat
[20:34] <DanielRichman> but a sat has a callsign?
[20:34] <DanielRichman> General Question: Are dual band antennae worth it?
[20:34] <Randomskk> your remote equipment wouldn't have a callsign
[20:34] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I have a dual band 2m/70cms whip
[20:34] <sbasuita> jcoxon, I think that should be fien
[20:34] <DanielRichman> I was thinking of a Yagi
[20:34] <Randomskk> it works really nicely for any general purpose uhf/vhf stuff
[20:34] <DanielRichman> it's got 8dbs
[20:35] <Randomskk> was also good at tracking the balloon within like 50km or 100km or so
[20:35] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I've seen a few 70cm/2m yagis
[20:35] <jcoxon> sbasuita, probably best to wait till after christmas before attempting the postal system
[20:35] <sbasuita> jcoxon, just what i was thinking
[20:35] <jcoxon> cool cool
[20:35] <edmoore> DanielRichman: djellison used an arrow yesterday
[20:35] <edmoore> for his 1000 packets
[20:35] <sbasuita> jcoxon, if we see each other at the launch i could just hand it over
[20:36] <jcoxon> hehe 348 strings
[20:36] <Randomskk> that arrow did crazy well
[20:38] <DanielRichman> This one: http://www.mydarc.de/DK7ZB/Duoband/5+8_2m-70cm.htm
[20:38] <DanielRichman> Claims that "The Yagi is optimized for the CW/SSB-parts of the bands, but usuable for the full bands."
[20:38] <Randomskk> it looks pretty cool
[20:38] <DanielRichman> How serious is that? There's a few SWR and DB graphs, however...
[20:38] <DanielRichman> Maybe it's bad english; i believe the HAM who created it is polish
[20:38] <Randomskk> I really need to measure the SWR on the yagi I made
[20:38] <DanielRichman> intended "usable for the full bands..."
[20:41] <DanielRichman> http://www.vpa-systems.pl/DK7ZB_Duoband_Yagi_58_el_144_146430_440_MHz-70.html
[20:41] <DanielRichman> £41 70c,/2m yagi; 10dB on both
[20:42] <Randomskk> what do you want a 2m yagi for?
[20:42] <Randomskk> I mean, compared to just 70cm
[20:42] <DanielRichman> Talking to the local club
[20:43] <DanielRichman> (on 5W)
[20:43] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you would use a whip for the local club
[20:43] <Randomskk> whip'd probably manage just as well, especially if the club don't all lie in a straight line and you don't use a repeater
[20:43] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, cause it's local
[20:43] <DanielRichman> Hmm. Mebe
[20:43] <Randomskk> take the intermediate exam :p
[20:43] <Randomskk> it's easy
[20:43] <DanielRichman> Okey :P
[20:44] <Randomskk> 50W is more than the ft817 can do so you're fine there
[20:44] <Randomskk> I still need to hear whether I passed the full exam before I can use 100W on HF out the ic7000, heh
[20:45] <DanielRichman> Okey... So, estimated construction costs of a WA5VJB "Cheap Yagi" is ~£10 of element metals; £5 for wooden boom
[20:45] <DanielRichman> A 2m Whip costs < £5
[20:46] <Randomskk> it does?
[20:46] <AlexBreton> are we borrowing a yagi?
[20:46] <Randomskk> the cost for ham stuff seems so ridiculous, almost anything premade is crazy expensive but almost all of it can be homemade for much much less
[20:47] <AlexBreton> sbasuita, homemade or borrowed yagi?
[20:47] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, I think dan is going to make one
[20:49] <AlexBreton> when?
[20:49] <RocketBoy> making stuff is half the fun of being a ham
[20:49] <RocketBoy> (I cant think what the other half is)
[20:50] <Randomskk> talking about your ailments on local repeaters?
[20:50] <AlexBreton> tbh, if you make ALL your stuff you'll end up more like a sausage than a ham
[20:51] <DanielRichman> RocketBoy, You say that, but I emalied the local club about building a yagi and the first reply reccomended buying one
[20:51] <DanielRichman> But, i think I will build a 70cm Yagi
[20:51] <DanielRichman> PVC Tubing. Is it strong enough to build a yagi on, and then mount onto the roof, and survive the weather?
[20:51] <DanielRichman> We have "gales".
[20:51] <DanielRichman> In double quotes
[20:51] <Randomskk> my 70cm yagi took an evening to make and got 300km :p
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[20:52] <Randomskk> I should think so. I epoxy'd everything important on mine and it survived rain
[20:52] <Randomskk> could make it out of metal anyway, cooler
[20:52] <AlexBreton> epoxy survives EVERYTHING
[20:56] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, yeah, but metal boom requries a different design
[20:56] <Randomskk> I really want to make a rotator and put the whole thing on a pole so it can stick above the roof now
[20:56] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: but that's not really a problem so long as your design takes it into account
[20:56] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I totally agree. I will be building a rotator for myself out of an atmega and a servo
[20:56] <Randomskk> most calculators have a metal/non-metal toggle
[20:56] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, what design did you use?
[20:56] <Randomskk> I used this yagi calculator
[20:57] <Randomskk> uh.. one sec
[20:57] <DanielRichman> I have a bunch of them that juxta gave me
[20:57] <DanielRichman> DOS programs
[20:57] <DanielRichman> ugly things
[20:57] <Randomskk> http://vk5dj.mountgambier.org/Yagi/Yagi.html
[20:57] <Randomskk> graphical but just gives you a text file saying the dimensions etc
[20:58] <DanielRichman> windows program!
[20:58] <DanielRichman> windows program !?!
[20:58] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, thanks for the link :)
[20:59] <DanielRichman> I don't suppose he provides the sauce :)
[21:00] <Randomskk> not sure but it will ruun on wine
[21:00] <DanielRichman> lovely.
[21:00] Action: DanielRichman installs wine
[21:02] <Randomskk> I'm not sure how easy it would be to do up/down as well as side to side rotation
[21:02] <Randomskk> but doing all that plus making it web controllable would be super neat
[21:02] <Randomskk> especially with a remote control radio
[21:02] <Randomskk> especially even more so if it could tie in to the tracker to just keep itself pointed
[21:02] <Randomskk> but if you get all that working, may as well make a really long antenna
[21:02] <Randomskk> and then maybe four of them
[21:02] <junderwood_> Not sure up/down is much use for ballooning
[21:03] <DanielRichman> 1) side-side easy. up/down, now you're getting evil
[21:03] <junderwood_> If it's close enough to be above 20 degrees you probably don't need much gain
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[21:03] <DanielRichman> 2) atmega + serial connection to server pc + sprincle of C or Python = easy
[21:03] <Randomskk> junderwood_: the balloons' altitudes changes a fair bit though? especially if it flies close
[21:03] <DanielRichman> 3) fldigi + above = maybe ? :P
[21:03] <Randomskk> that flight yesterday went almost directly over me
[21:03] <DanielRichman> 4) more python
[21:03] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: plus radio
[21:03] <DanielRichman> 5) DO IT.
[21:04] <DanielRichman> 6) DO IT!
[21:04] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, oh yeah, You'll need another radio
[21:04] <Randomskk> I think a motor and rotatry encoder would be better than a servo
[21:04] <junderwood_> and a Yagi pointed upwards is horizontally polarised vs a vertically polarised signal?
[21:04] <Randomskk> I'm not really sure hwo that'd work
[21:04] <DanielRichman> The transmitter has a blind spot just below it anyway
[21:04] <Randomskk> but it still seems like some amount of up/down control would be good to point it directly?
[21:05] <junderwood_> To beat 45 degrees it has to be within 30 km of you.
[21:05] <junderwood_> (44 if you include pythagoras!)
[21:05] <DanielRichman> What should I use to connect aluminium elements to the aluminium boom?
[21:05] <DanielRichman> There's some sort of mount that screws onto the boom and then the element; insulating
[21:06] <DanielRichman> Or I could drill a slightly-too-large hole and put something insulative there
[21:06] <junderwood_> I put a layer of heat shrink over the element and then used heat shrink either side of the boom to locate
[21:06] <junderwood_> worked nicely
[21:07] <junderwood_> managed to pick up last night's flight at 200 km, 10deg above the horizon
[21:07] <Randomskk> or you can have the aluminium in contact with the boom
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, that ruins your SWR, right?
[21:07] <Randomskk> I believe you just need to make sure it's designed for that
[21:07] <DanielRichman> junderwood_, so you put some heat shrink onto the element in the middle, shrink it on, then put it into place and shrink more on the sides. That holds it and insulates it?
[21:07] <Randomskk> possibly the dipole itself is best insulateed
[21:08] <junderwood_> That's what I did
[21:08] <Randomskk> bear in mind making the driven element out of aluminium makes soldering to it a total nightmare
[21:08] <Randomskk> a mechanical connection would be better
[21:08] <Randomskk> for aluminium
[21:08] <junderwood_> I used copper tube.
[21:08] <junderwood_> Car brake pipe is perfect. Solderable and bendable
[21:09] <junderwood_> *need big soldering iron
[21:10] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, will use a brass rod for driven element
[21:11] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, "bonded through boom" means electrically connected to said boom?
[21:12] <Randomskk> yes
[21:13] <DanielRichman> Oh, cool
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[21:24] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, will be picking up antenna metalz at the weekend
[21:24] <DanielRichman> although actually If i could get some tomorrow that'd be super good 'cause then I could use a tech blow torch to make the folded dipole.... hmmmm
[21:25] Nick change: junderwood_ -> junderwood
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[21:27] <Randomskk> where are you planning on going to get them?
[21:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, B&Q reading is 50 mintues of motorway from school :*(
[21:27] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, weekend, most likely
[21:28] <DanielRichman> B&Q
[21:28] <DanielRichman> *sorry; read when not where
[21:28] <DanielRichman> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSearch=true&fh_search=aluminium+tube&x=0&y=0
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[21:28] <DanielRichman> and http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9284092&fh_view_size=10&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=Aluminium+rOD&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=search&ts=1259495265363&isSearch=true
[21:28] <DanielRichman> and brass rod too
[21:28] <Randomskk> yup b&q is great
[21:28] <Randomskk> leatherhead?
[21:28] <Randomskk> oh reading
[21:28] <DanielRichman> reading or farnborough
[21:28] <DanielRichman> I'll probs check stock on the website at the weekend and find that neither have any, but meh
[21:29] <Randomskk> you can reserve online
[21:29] <DanielRichman> Indeed.
[21:29] <DanielRichman> Still gotta decide how to fix elements to the boom
[21:30] <Randomskk> I went for a pvc boom, drill holes, insert elements, slather in araldite
[21:30] <Randomskk> 6mm drill bit and 6mm elements gives them a decent friction fit
[21:30] <Randomskk> I would advise a square section boom though, makes it much easier to get everything in line
[21:30] <Randomskk> or flat I guess
[21:30] Action: Randomskk went for round, regrets
[21:31] <DanielRichman> School tech department has a nice pillar drill and grip, however, school breaks up in 4 days (I never thought I'd say that).
[21:31] <Randomskk> sad isn't it
[21:31] <DanielRichman> Actually, come to think of that, I think they were suggesting that all the Resmats go into school, in the holidays to finish their projects
[21:31] <Randomskk> I miss being able to wander in to school workshop
[21:31] <DanielRichman> Could just pop along and drill some stuff.
[21:32] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, there's a sign on the door, one side says "Workshop Closed" - printed; the other has had permant marker "THE TECH WORK CAN COMMENCE" on it
[21:32] <DanielRichman> sets the mood for the workshop
[21:32] <Randomskk> haha yes
[21:32] <DanielRichman> Could I weld the elements? Well, no, I couldn't since I'd probably start a international war if someone gave me a welder, but is it possible to?
[21:32] <DanielRichman> Actually - aluminium isn't weldable; is it?
[21:33] <Randomskk> if you made it out of something weldable, yes
[21:33] <junderwood> In theory, yes. But you need to use TIG kit to do it
[21:33] <Randomskk> not sure if you can weld alu
[21:34] <junderwood> You need to keep an Argon blanket over the weld. Otherwise it oxidises
[21:34] <DanielRichman> Hmm. Maybe a no for the welding, then
[21:34] <DanielRichman> Options are: Glue, Heat Strink so far
[21:34] <DanielRichman> Could drill a small hole in the elements, and stick a pin through
[21:35] <DanielRichman> Though, then I'd have to secure the pin; ugh.
[21:35] <Randomskk> bolt it?
[21:36] <DanielRichman> Hmm, could do.
[21:36] <DanielRichman> That could mess with the SWR though
[21:36] <junderwood> Tap a hole in the boom and use a grub screw?
[21:36] <junderwood> Nylon screw if you want to insulate
[21:38] <DanielRichman> This design is very interesting
[21:38] <DanielRichman> http://67.193.5.216/2myagi/2myagi.html
[21:38] <DanielRichman> got some things to fit over the elements and aparantly clamp them in place
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[21:43] <junderwood> DanielRichman, looks like another proponent of brake pipe :-)
[21:43] <DanielRichman> :P
[21:44] <DanielRichman> Might go for araldite
[21:44] <Randomskk> araldite worked pretty well really
[21:44] <Randomskk> dunno if it's the most optimal
[21:44] <Randomskk> you are fucked if you make a mistake
[21:44] <DanielRichman> Hmm.
[21:45] <junderwood> Nah. You've got 2 hours to work it out
[21:45] <DanielRichman> Not wanting you to try - but can you break the adhesion with your hands?
[21:45] <Randomskk> like if I want to change boom from pvc pipe to something else, I also now need to remake all my elements
[21:45] <Randomskk> I can't
[21:45] <DanielRichman> Sounds good enough
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[21:45] <Randomskk> thiss is quite a lot of araldite completely surrounding the join
[21:45] <Randomskk> junderwood: araldite rapid :p more like one hour? maybe 40 mins?
[21:45] <DanielRichman> Why can't I just use a gluegun :'(
[21:46] <Randomskk> you probably could
[21:46] <DanielRichman> Would never stick
[21:46] <DanielRichman> The folded dipole looks like it must be fully insulated
[21:47] <Randomskk> doesn't have to be, there is an option for it to be same as the other elements
[21:47] <Randomskk> but I think that might be better insulated
[21:47] <Randomskk> I'm also unsure if you should have the top bit inline with the others, or the middle, or what
[21:47] <DanielRichman> indeed.
[21:48] <junderwood> I don't think it's critical. If you look at cheap TV antennae the folded dipole tends to wrap around the boom
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[21:48] <junderwood> and indeed the example you posted
[21:49] <Randomskk> yea
[21:49] <Randomskk> plus my yagi does work
[21:49] <Randomskk> though I don't know how well
[21:49] <Randomskk> need to find out the swr as well
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[21:50] <junderwood> Mine seems to work as well. Although not as well as M6DGE's
[21:50] <Randomskk> his works crazy well! dunno if that's just awesome line of sight or a really well made antenna or what
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[22:06] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, did you make any more graphs?
[22:06] <jcoxon> concerning yesterdays flight
[22:06] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: the box is marked "teapigs" - careful when opening
[22:07] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, teapigs... =/
[22:07] <RocketBoy> - just a box I had that I'm re-using
[22:07] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what would steve do?
[22:08] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, well, if he breaks it it's his fault
[22:08] <RocketBoy> i'm thinking long knives poking inside
[22:09] <RocketBoy> i almost did that once myself
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[22:20] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: nope
[22:20] <jcoxon> oh okay
[22:20] <jcoxon> am doing the wiki page right now - was going to poach some
[22:21] <jcoxon> guess i need to correct the time values before we can make valid graphs
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[22:21] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: I diddn't do more than quick hacks
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[22:40] <Laurenceb> sup guys
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[22:52] <MikeMc> evening
[22:52] <RocketBoy> nights
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[23:01] <jcoxon> ooo and we are back
[23:01] <jcoxon> :-p
[23:01] <MikeMc> :O
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[23:02] <Randomskk> freenode has been really splitty recently
[23:02] <MikeMc> yep
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[23:56] <jcoxon> hey all - did a bit of a write up: http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:ballasthalo:ballasthalo3
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