highaltitude.log.20091211

[00:00] <Laurenceb> yeah I didnt think of that
[00:00] <Laurenceb> two sides
[00:01] <Laurenceb> IIRC I've heard of CA being used, but theres probably something better
[00:01] <Randomskk> I was thinking CA
[00:01] <Laurenceb> having said that CA + catalyst is instant
[00:02] <jcoxon> okay, someone walk me through compiling a c++ program please
[00:03] <jcoxon> with individual .cpp and no makefile
[00:03] <edmoore> g++ poo.cpp -o poo
[00:03] <Randomskk> do you have multiple source files
[00:03] <jcoxon> yes
[00:03] <jcoxon> guess the 'indivdual .cpp' is misleading
[00:03] <edmoore> you said you had just the individual one
[00:04] <Randomskk> g++ -c poo.cpp; g++ -c pee.cpp; g++ -o excrement poo.o pee.o
[00:04] <Randomskk> to continue edmoore's fantastic naming scheme
[00:04] <edmoore> oh, i guess that's ambiguous
[00:04] <Randomskk> there are all sorts of other fancy flags you can use. -I and -l are pretty useful
[00:04] <Randomskk> -O for optimisation levels
[00:06] <jcoxon> great
[00:06] <jcoxon> now i'm sure i did all that last time and it didn't work
[00:07] <Randomskk> the -c is important? but it's pretty standard
[00:07] <jcoxon> but now it does
[00:07] <jcoxon> no i think maybe i didn't do the -o binary_name bit
[00:07] <Randomskk> oh, maybe. but then it should just make a.out
[00:09] <edmoore> night all
[00:09] <Randomskk> seeya
[00:09] <jcoxon> basically last time i tried i just got a binary that opened then closed
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[00:09] <jcoxon> but it works now so i ain't complaining
[00:09] <Randomskk> oh, weird. that sounds more like buggy code than buggy compilation though?
[00:09] <Randomskk> still, yup.
[00:09] <Randomskk> this is why makefiles are great
[00:09] <Randomskk> you just "make" with nothing to get right or wrong
[00:09] <jcoxon> hehe its cusf code :-p
[00:10] <Randomskk> >.>
[00:10] Action: Randomskk hasn't written any yet, can't take the credit for it not having a makefile or compiling or such
[00:10] <Randomskk> which code is it?
[00:10] <jcoxon> oh its the old flight predictor
[00:10] <Randomskk> ...ah
[00:11] <Randomskk> I've heard stories
[00:11] <Randomskk> myths would be the correct term, since these stories involved dragons and other assorted monsters
[00:11] <jcoxon> oh i've got it working before quite easily
[00:11] <jcoxon> when i fused it with hysplit to make hte ultimate float trajectory forecastor
[00:11] <Randomskk> I hear the new predictor code is much better in the nasty-surprises category
[00:11] <jcoxon> yeah i've got that compiled as well but it doesn't do floating
[00:12] <Randomskk> ah, fair enough
[00:14] <jcoxon> i think i need to get someone to take my old ibook away
[00:14] <jcoxon> its so broken but i still keep trying to repair it
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[06:53] <juxta_> morning all
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[08:14] <MikeMc> morning
[08:17] <jcoxon> morning MikeMc
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[08:19] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[08:19] <jcoxon> ping rjw57
[08:20] <edmoore> morning
[08:20] <edmoore> this is just a flying visit
[08:20] <jcoxon> the hourly predictor is getting smaller :-p
[08:20] <edmoore> i think rjw57 has is irc on a screen session somewhere
[08:20] <jcoxon> i think there might be a bug in the code
[08:20] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:20] <MikeMc> is there a launch imminent?
[08:21] <edmoore> rigt, off for b-fast
[08:21] <jcoxon> in the next couple of days depending on weather
[08:21] <MikeMc> Whose launching?
[08:21] <jcoxon> me
[08:21] <MikeMc> cool
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[08:26] <jcoxon> MikeMc, still got some work to do on it so no set date
[08:28] <jcoxon> will be an evening launch as well
[08:33] <MikeMc> why an evening launch?
[08:34] <jcoxon> it'll be a floater so we need to use sunset to cause the balloon to float
[08:38] <MikeMc> ahh i see
[08:39] <MikeMc> this going to be the first launch with your ballast rig? Is it a test flight for something longer?
[08:45] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:45] <jcoxon> its to test the ballast tanks which may get used on a trans-a flight
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[08:47] <MikeMc> nice
[08:47] <MikeMc> well good luck
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[08:54] <jcoxon> haha brilliant
[08:54] <jcoxon> i got the new landing predictor from cusf to do float just by removing hte descent part so it never lands so keeps on predicting till it runs out of data for hte winds
[08:57] <MikeMc> :)
[09:00] <russss> Russia confirms that it was their missile over NorwayL http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/troms_og_finnmark/1.6904061&sl=no&tl=en
[09:02] <jcoxon> any google map geniuses around?
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[09:06] <jcoxon> edmoore, i got the new landing predictor to float :-p
[09:07] <edmoore> and i see write prtection has gone
[09:07] <edmoore> rjw57 is up!
[09:08] <jcoxon> yeah i just removed the descent part of the predictor so it just stays at burst altitude until it runs of of gfs data
[09:10] <edmoore> lol
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[09:25] <jcoxon> oooo pretty hourly runs
[09:36] <edmoore> sunday looks good
[09:37] <edmoore> good for me to track from if I go home
[09:37] <jcoxon> hehe but it requires a london overfly
[09:37] <edmoore> wednesday better for tracking from cam
[09:38] <jcoxon> hmmm its a tough one
[09:41] <edmoore> monday
[09:41] <edmoore> but then there are no DL types down that way
[09:41] <edmoore> oh wait, bicester
[09:42] <jcoxon> and spike is in guildford
[09:42] <jcoxon> edmoore, how about for now we plan monday but watch the forecasts
[09:42] <edmoore> have not seen him on for a bit
[09:43] <jcoxon> he is contactable by email
[09:43] <edmoore> I am inclined to agree
[09:43] <edmoore> monday with caveats
[09:45] <jcoxon> i've got to be in london on tues afternoon
[09:45] <jcoxon> and also weds as well
[09:45] <jcoxon> which doesn't help
[09:45] <edmoore> hrm
[09:45] <edmoore> predictor upgrade idea: url API
[09:46] <edmoore> jesus jimbo
[09:46] <edmoore> run this:
[09:46] <edmoore> 2ms up to 22km, 15:00 hrs on Monday 14th, 36000 (10hrs) float
[09:46] <edmoore> it's goes right into the bay of biscay
[09:47] <edmoore> way over the horizon
[09:47] <jcoxon> ooooo
[09:47] <jcoxon> oops
[09:47] <edmoore> it may be advantageous to go for a day with generally lower winds
[09:47] <jcoxon> agreed
[09:48] <edmoore> so we can hear it :)
[09:48] <jcoxon> i'm about to generate an enormous amount of data
[09:48] <edmoore> that's what she said
[09:48] <jcoxon> on the next 120hrs of floating at 18km alt
[09:48] <jcoxon> edmoore, how busy are you 19/20 dec?
[09:48] <edmoore> um, very
[09:49] <edmoore> have a bday party
[09:49] <jcoxon> okay
[09:49] <jcoxon> no worries
[09:49] <edmoore> spanning that night
[09:49] <edmoore> ok, so a 10hr float on wednesday takes it to the french/german border
[09:49] <edmoore> ]
[09:50] <jcoxon> what alt are you floating at?
[09:50] <edmoore> 22
[09:50] <jcoxon> hmmm i'd rather it just went out to sea
[09:51] <edmoore> that's basically a london overpass
[09:52] <edmoore> hrm, actually let me see what this reckons
[09:52] <jcoxon> hmmmm, if we could get a south england listener
[09:52] <jcoxon> then that would extend our range big time
[09:52] <edmoore> i could go home
[09:52] <edmoore> i am in Chichester
[09:52] <jcoxon> is anyone else around to help launch?
[09:52] <edmoore> ok, a teusday launch puts is down by the channel islands
[09:53] <edmoore> could definitely get the entire flight from sussex
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[10:47] <ssapphiree> hi all
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[11:11] <juxta> hi all
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[12:18] <edmoore> jcoxon: yo
[12:24] <Randomskk> edmoore: technically I am in south england
[12:24] <Randomskk> no yagi atm though
[12:26] <edmoore> that's true
[12:26] <edmoore> you'll need a yagi
[12:27] <edmoore> make one!
[12:27] <edmoore> a 3-el will be fine
[12:27] <jcoxon> edmoore, even a moxon would do
[12:27] <Randomskk> pretty sure I'll be around for the next few days
[12:28] <edmoore> I am still not convinced by moxons, for fairly fundamental reasons
[12:28] <Randomskk> trip to do it all and get some metal tubes?
[12:28] <edmoore> Randomskk: sure. do you have a good yagi calculator?
[12:28] <Randomskk> don't think so
[12:30] <edmoore> my thing about moxons is basically their elevation radiation pattern is nulls at very regular angles
[12:30] <edmoore> which, unless you are actively pointing them, will mean that the balloon will probably be passing in and out of gain/lobes as it ascends and moves arounbd relative to you
[12:31] <edmoore> Randomskk: DL6WU yagi calculator
[12:32] <Randomskk> got it
[12:33] <Randomskk> need to get a pl plug or two to wire it into as well
[12:33] <edmoore> yep
[12:33] <edmoore> and some decent co-ax
[12:34] <Randomskk> yup. suppliers?
[12:34] <edmoore> local maplins I guess
[12:34] <edmoore> they usually have a decentish selection of coax
[12:34] <edmoore> oh no wait- where do you live?
[12:34] <Randomskk> weybridge
[12:34] <edmoore> martin lynch and sons
[12:35] <edmoore> mate, you're next to one of the biggest, if not the biggest, ham radio shop in england
[12:35] <jcoxon> edmoore, did you see the kmls i sent?
[12:36] <Randomskk> haha chertsey
[12:36] <Randomskk> how handy
[12:36] <edmoore> got them but have not looked yet (have been afk most of the morn)
[12:36] <jcoxon> no worries
[12:37] Action: jcoxon is running a cold test on his temp sensors to make sure that negative numbers come through okay
[12:38] <Randomskk> wow, plenty of different types of coax
[12:39] <Randomskk> man, that stripping tool CUWS have turns out to be 45 pounds?
[12:39] <Randomskk> knife time I guess :p
[12:43] <juxta> hi jcoxon, edmoore, Randomskk
[12:43] <edmoore> HI juxta
[12:43] <Randomskk> heya
[12:44] Action: juxta tracked and recovered a balloon today :D
[12:44] <jcoxon> radiosonde?
[12:44] <juxta> yep
[12:44] <jcoxon> cool
[12:44] <jcoxon> good work
[12:44] <jcoxon> not your own?
[12:44] <juxta> analogue sonde, no GPS or telemetry
[12:45] <juxta> nah, one of the two that get launched every day by our met beuro
[12:45] <juxta> or bureau? i'm not sure
[12:46] <ssapphiree> my dict tells me it's bureau
[12:46] <Randomskk> so I need some metal rod and something to make the boom out of basically?
[12:46] <edmoore> yes
[12:47] <Randomskk> plus the coax, plug, something to cut and strip the coax, soldering iron
[12:47] <Randomskk> balun?
[12:47] <edmoore> decide whether you're going to insulate the elements or not, aswell
[12:47] <edmoore> do you know what a balun is?
[12:47] <Randomskk> would hope so after sitting the full radio test :p
[12:47] <Randomskk> so okay, yes, I need one, but
[12:47] <edmoore> ok, well you'll see in the design app if you play with it
[12:48] <juxta> which design app are you using?
[12:48] <Randomskk> got it, okay
[12:48] <Randomskk> juxta: the dl6wu yagi one by vk5dj
[12:49] <juxta> ah yep
[12:49] <juxta> vk5dj lives here :)
[12:49] <Randomskk> okay, balun sorted then, fair enough :p
[12:49] <Randomskk> just some more co/ax.
[12:49] <Randomskk> coax even
[12:49] <Randomskk> I wonder if my soldering iron is up to the job
[12:50] <jcoxon> hehe, someone should just reply to that email ;-p
[12:50] <jcoxon> the most activity on the mailing list in years
[12:51] <edmoore> it's a complictaed thing to explain in one solid chunk of text, assuming you can't actually be bothered to write a tutorial, which I can't
[12:52] <jcoxon> :-)
[12:53] <edmoore> who is Nick Leaton?
[12:53] <Randomskk> and something to cut some metal rods
[12:53] <jcoxon> not sure - first time posting (had to moderate his message)
[12:54] <ssapphiree> guys, has any usual person (I mean not from some research company) tried to use hydrogen peroxide rockets? aren't they extremely nice for space tasks?
[12:55] <ssapphiree> peroxide doesn't need oxygen, doesn't need ignition... it gives a good impulse
[12:56] <juxta> Randomskk: pliers/hacksaw?
[12:56] <Randomskk> hacksaw will do the job I should think
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> peroxide does need ignition.
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Catalysts for peroxide is pretty tricky
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> And the uks 'black arrow' aluncher was based on peroxide
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> peroxide alone has sucky impulse - pretty much
[12:57] <ssapphiree> as far I know, the great catalyst for peroxide is silver
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[12:58] <juxta> igniters are legal to buy in the UK at least, aren't they? you need explosives certification here to legally obtain them
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> yes - however silver melts when you apply high percentage peroxide.
[12:58] <HASCENT> hi
[12:58] <edmoore> Hi HASCENT
[12:58] <ssapphiree> as peroxide touches silver, it becomes 700 degree steam very fast
[12:58] <edmoore> so, FM/SSB
[12:58] <ssapphiree> well
[12:59] <ssapphiree> but there are jet packs
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: it's really not that simple unfortunately.
[12:59] <ssapphiree> working on that principle
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: yes - you can get high thrust quite easily.
[12:59] <HASCENT> Hi Ed, thanks for the invitation
[12:59] <ssapphiree> hm
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: but for high specific impulse - 'fuel efficiency' - you really need 99%+ peroxide. Which tends to melt the silver.
[13:00] <ssapphiree> huh
[13:00] <ssapphiree> I see...
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: and even with that, it's not great, compared to normal rocket engines, so you need to mix fuel into it.
[13:00] <edmoore> The radiometrix has a voltage controlled socillator on the input. this means you stick a voltage in between say 0 and 3.3V, and you get a signal out that is the frequency of the module (eg 434.075Mhz) + a frequency between about 0 and 20kHz, which depends up your voltage input
[13:00] <HASCENT> Can I just typoe a question here for you Ed?
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: with not >99% peroxide, a _lot_ of the energy just goes into boiling water, which causes real problems.
[13:00] <ssapphiree> well, as far as I know, famous jet packs use exactly peroxide, and they don't mix fuel into it
[13:00] <ssapphiree> so they've figured out how to make the thing
[13:00] <edmoore> so basically you can specific any output between 434,075,000Hz and 434,077,000 Hz
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: and they fly for ~30s
[13:01] <edmoore> HASCENT: yes do
[13:01] <HASCENT> OK, thanks
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> See http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide for an eplanation as how the ff/ssb thing works
[13:01] <HASCENT> Looking at the basic outline from Henry Hallam on the Radiometrix webpage I referenced, you are using FX tx via an SSB filter
[13:01] <ssapphiree> yeah, and there is no rocket of such size/mass that would lift that system with a human for 30 s
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: HASCENT
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: of course htere is.
[13:02] <ssapphiree> hm
[13:02] <ssapphiree> really?
[13:02] <ssapphiree> why do jet packs use peroxide then
[13:02] <ssapphiree> ?
[13:02] <HASCENT> I'm trying to understand how the Yaesu rx can know to demodulate the FM RF signal under the SSB filter, which would normally be filtering an AM signal
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: ordinary rockets - bipropellant liquid - of the same mass would lift it for the same weight of fuel for about 60s.
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> HASCENT: see the above wiki page
[13:02] <HASCENT> What am I missing>
[13:02] <Randomskk> it doesn't demodulate FM, basically
[13:03] <Randomskk> it sees the incoming modulated FM as an SSB signal.
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: it's just peroxide is simpler if you only need short bursts of thrust, and care more about simplicity than fuel consumption
[13:03] <Randomskk> and demodulates it as though it were SSB
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> HASCENT: it's all outlined above
[13:03] <ssapphiree> SpeedEvil: hm, I see...
[13:03] <edmoore> that's a good point, that pretty much explains iot
[13:03] <Randomskk> HASCENT: a quick diagram might help, give me a sec
[13:04] <ssapphiree> well, I was just thinking of a way to make a rocket starting from a balloon at 30km
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: why?
[13:04] <ssapphiree> thought peroxide might be useful for that
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: you mean orbital?
[13:04] <ssapphiree> yeah
[13:04] <ssapphiree> 8 km/s
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: Helps almost not at all.
[13:04] <HASCENT> OK I'll re-read that wiki page thanks.
[13:04] <ssapphiree> heh
[13:04] <ssapphiree> okay :))
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: It reduces the drag, but you really need as high a specific impulse - exhaust velocity - 'efficiency' a you can
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: the exhaust velocity of 99% peroxide going through a catalyst is ~1800m/s if I remember right.
[13:05] <ssapphiree> also I'm obsessed with the idea of rocket-engined inline skates :D that's another reason why I want a peroxide engine
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[13:06] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: this - when you work out the numbers - give you 180s of 1Kg of thrust per 1Kg of fuel.
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Or 180Kg of thrust for 1s
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: So with 3l of peroxide on each skate - you get about 10Kg thrust for 100s.
[13:06] <HASCENT> OK, so I am not missing anything relating to RF demodulation - the FM signal is forced through an SSB filter to improve the noise margin.
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: And it costs $100 or more probably to actually buy that amount of peroxide.
[13:07] <ssapphiree> oh frack
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> HASCENT: not really
[13:07] <ssapphiree> yeah, it's quite inefficient
[13:07] <HASCENT> But the signal remains incomprehensible since the SSB demodulation reveals nothing about the original signal per se
[13:07] <ssapphiree> sad :(
[13:07] <Randomskk> HASCENT: no
[13:07] <Randomskk> SSB demodulation reveals the data we want
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> HASCENT: it's using the SSB stage as a downconverter only
[13:07] <edmoore> HASCENT: are you up to speed on what an AM spectrum looks like? In terms of a carrier frequency and then the baseband signal symmetrically either side?
[13:07] <HASCENT> Yes ed
[13:08] <ssapphiree> thank you for explanation SpeedEvil :)
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> HASCENT: it subtracts a constant frequency from the RF input, and outputs it as audio
[13:08] <Randomskk> this diagram isn't going fantastically but essentially the FM encoded tone gives a single high amplitude point at one frequency
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: also - that will cause you to catch fire if it splashes on you (high test peroxide)
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> there is a table in the above pageexplaining that.
[13:08] <edmoore> cool, so all we're doing is tuning our SSB radio so that the two tones produced by the radio metrix fall into the passband of the AM demodulator.
[13:08] <Randomskk> when you decode that on SSB with the nominal carrier about 1khz below that point, it sees that single point as a tone in that upper sideband, decoding it as an audio signal
[13:09] <ssapphiree> yeah, all rockets are dangerous about fire
[13:09] <jcoxon> hehe - one a time guys
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: not water rockets.
[13:09] <ssapphiree> water rockets?
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation - is the basis of how to work out how rockets work.
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: coke bottle pressurised, with a nozzle on, and some fins, half-full of water
[13:10] <HASCENT> is there a way to reduce the number of viewed lines on this IRC as it's hard to pick out the conversation!
[13:11] <ssapphiree> SpeedEvil: ah I see
[13:11] <edmoore> am about to pop out for lunch now
[13:11] <edmoore> HASCENT, Randomskk , jcoxon , SpeedEvil maybe shift the radio chat to #highaltitude99 ?
[13:11] Action: SpeedEvil passes edmoore a spear to hunt with.
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: naah - i'm done.
[13:11] <ssapphiree> well, coke is not going to help in achieving orbital speed I think :)))
[13:12] <edmoore> HASCENT: type: " /join #highaltitude99 " in the box
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: Basically - you want a high exhaust velocity - or the logarithms kill you.
[13:12] <jcoxon> hmmm tips on getting this temp sensor down below 1deg
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: freezer?
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: ice cube and salt?
[13:14] <ssapphiree> SpeedEvil: yeah, I see now
[13:14] <ssapphiree> so peroxide has low exhaust velocity? it's just simpler to use than bipropellant rockets?
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: basically, yes.
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: at least for low concentrations of peroxide. Getting high concentrations of peroxide to do what you want isn't quit e trivial. But - it's often lots easier than bipropellant, as you skip lots of the steps. There is no need for injectors as such, mixing the fuel, ...
[13:17] <ssapphiree> yeah
[13:18] <ssapphiree> 80% peroxide is considered low?
[13:18] <ssapphiree> (it's just I saw 80% peroxide on ebay)
[13:20] <ssapphiree> wikipedia says that plasma engine is far more efficient than any other type... hmm... :)))
[13:20] <ssapphiree> frack, it's always so complicated... of course I can't make a plasma engine, and I guess I won't find it on ebay :(
[13:21] <russss> well ion engines have the highest specific impulse of any engine
[13:21] <russss> unfortunately they won't do much good getting you out of the atmosphere because they have so little thrust
[13:22] <ssapphiree> Ion thruster 29,000
[13:22] <ssapphiree> VASIMR 290,000
[13:22] <russss> VASIMR is just a souped-up ion engine
[13:22] <ssapphiree> yeah I know... it's not even about atmosphere but about gravity
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: yes - but - you need on the order of 290000^2 *9.8W per Kg of lift with a VASIMIR say
[13:22] <russss> "VASIMR is not suitable to launch payloads from the surface of the Earth due to its low thrust to weight ratio and its need of a vacuum to operate. "
[13:23] <ssapphiree> if it was about atmosphere it could start from stratosphere
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Unless I've screwed that up some - but that's the order of magnitude
[13:23] <ssapphiree> but it won't help an ion engine...
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: 84GW/Kg of thrust I think
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> That's a bit high actually
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> but I'm not sure of exact numbers.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> as I can't be bothered to do the sums
[13:24] <ssapphiree> so the only way to leave Earth is to use ordinary rockets
[13:25] <russss> if there was a better way then someone would be using it ;)
[13:25] <ssapphiree> u're right :))
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: pretty much - or disruptive technologies that nobodies implemented yer
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> t
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> for example orbital tethers or skyhooks
[13:26] <russss> heh
[13:26] <ssapphiree> I was just thinking that maybe there is a way to use something cheap that would help to reach orbital speed from stratosphere (and a balloon would take it to stratosphere)
[13:27] <russss> well launching from a balloon still saves you a *lot* of fuel
[13:28] <ssapphiree> but why no one does that?
[13:29] <ssapphiree> for launching some microsatellites
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[13:29] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: it doesn't save you much fuel if your rocket weighs >20 tons
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> And most do
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> And a balloon to lift even a 1 ton rocket is _damn_huge_
[13:29] <russss> I suppose your "fuel" is helium in that case.
[13:29] <ssapphiree> hm
[13:30] <ssapphiree> and how heavy a rocket must be to achive the orbit from a 30km balloon?
[13:30] <ssapphiree> with, say, 10 kg of payload
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[13:31] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: a hundred kilos would be a marvel of design
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> ssapphiree: 500 is more like it, and 1000 would be much easier
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[13:31] <juxta> that's a fair bit of lifting
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> afk
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:31] <ssapphiree> so most likely this thing would need a _damn_huge_ balloon... sad :(
[13:32] <juxta> I've just put up some photos of the RDF gear we used to track that sonde today if anybody is interested
[13:32] <juxta> www.projecthorus.org/RDF/
[13:33] <ssapphiree> nice
[13:33] <juxta> CU predictor was very good, within 5km
[13:35] <ssapphiree> you're from Australia?
[13:35] <juxta> I am :)
[13:35] <juxta> not my truck though ;p
[13:35] <ssapphiree> cool!
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[13:36] <ssapphiree> my dream is to go to Australia :D
[13:37] <ssapphiree> it's so far from the whole world and it's high civilized, with a type of climate I like...
[13:37] <juxta> haha
[13:37] <ssapphiree> and there is ocean with waves and surfing!
[13:37] <juxta> far from the rest of the world is about right
[13:37] <juxta> but yeah it's nice here
[13:37] <juxta> http://www.projecthorus.org/RDF/found-it.gif
[13:37] <ssapphiree> cool ))
[13:37] <juxta> there's the last few vectors I plotted to find the sonde
[13:37] <juxta> blue arrow is the cars heading
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[15:59] Nick change: bt42 -> bittwist
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[16:37] <hascent> nick <hascent>
[16:45] <hascent> /help Basic IRC Commands
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[16:46] <ms7821> /quit
[16:46] <ms7821> beat me to it
[17:00] <MikeMc> Evening all
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[17:20] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:23] <ssapphiree> evening
[17:26] <jcoxon> hey ssapphiree
[17:30] <ssapphiree> shit, I have to make my university homework for tomorrow, but the task (which I've read only now) appears unnatural to me. And I don't have my lecturer's contacts and the most sad thing - I've failed to google it! :(
[17:36] <jcoxon> oh dear
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[18:27] <jcoxon> evening natrium42
[18:28] <natrium42> hi
[18:29] <jcoxon> considering launching ballasthalo3 on monday
[18:29] <jcoxon> was wondering if i could bug you to some how get the custom data on the tracker
[18:32] <natrium42> sure, what additional fields do you want?
[18:33] <jcoxon> well
[18:33] <jcoxon> there are a lot
[18:33] <jcoxon> but perhaps just a display of the custom data field
[18:34] <jcoxon> ignoring the individual components
[18:34] <jcoxon> at present its:
[18:35] <jcoxon> "temp0;temp1;temp2;temp3;light1;totalPumpseconds;blevelperc;ballastmode;0"
[18:35] <jcoxon> oops missed a few
[18:36] <jcoxon> basically its just a large custom field
[18:36] <natrium42> i see, ok
[18:36] <natrium42> so just put them all into a variable called data
[18:36] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:37] <jcoxon> thats how the DL server is reading it
[18:39] <natrium42> cool, so "temp0=123;temp1=456"
[18:39] <natrium42> etc?
[18:39] <natrium42> i can break them apart then
[18:41] <jcoxon> it'll be:
[18:41] <jcoxon> 17;18;19;20 etc
[18:41] <jcoxon> all integers
[18:41] <jcoxon> seperated by ;
[18:42] <natrium42> k
[18:43] <jcoxon> ascentrate;atfloat;float_time;temp0;temp1;temp2;temp3;light1;totalPumpseconds;blevelperc;ballastmode;0
[18:43] <jcoxon> yeah thats it all :-p
[18:49] <jcoxon> thanks!
[18:49] <natrium42> it's not done yet! :P
[18:51] <jcoxon> hehe i thought the encouragment of an upcoming launch would spur you on :-)
[18:52] <natrium42> ok, could you submit a few test positions?
[18:52] <natrium42> it should write them to DB
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[18:55] <natrium42> ok, done
[18:55] <ssapphiree> how do you think... is that possible to catch ISS's wifi in stratosphere? :)))
[18:55] <russss> do they have wifi?
[18:55] <ssapphiree> yeah they do
[18:55] <natrium42> haha
[18:55] <ssapphiree> inside ISS
[18:56] <natrium42> do they use WEP or WPA?
[18:56] <russss> I suspect it does a pretty good job of shielding it, considering its construction.
[18:56] <ssapphiree> I think they don't :))
[18:56] <ssapphiree> because there's not many people around ISS
[18:56] <ssapphiree> who could want a free wifi
[18:56] <ssapphiree> without permission
[18:56] <ssapphiree> :D
[18:58] <ssapphiree> russss: hm... I didn't think about that the ISS is metal... :(
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[19:00] <natrium42> jcoxon, it works for me
[19:01] <jcoxon> natrium42, oh sorry was away from 'puter
[19:02] <natrium42> display for the info box on the right is messed up
[19:02] <natrium42> too many lines to fit XD
[19:02] <jcoxon> probably now need to kick rjharrison to sort out the server side to pass the data
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[19:15] <jcoxon> would 60mA be a fair measure for an Atmega168 (3.3v), lassen IQ and NTX2?
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[19:21] <jcoxon> evening RocketBoy
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[19:45] <natrium42> jcoxon, you can do "temp1=5;temp2=6" too
[19:45] <natrium42> then it will split up the string
[19:46] <jcoxon> natrium42, thats a lot more characters on the telem string
[19:46] <jcoxon> its already long enough
[19:46] <natrium42> yeah, but you don't have to do that in the telem string :P
[19:46] <jcoxon> good point
[19:46] <jcoxon> okay time to kick rjharrison to sort out the server to pass that info
[19:47] <jcoxon> thanks natrium42
[19:47] <natrium42> it's up to you, if it detects "="
[19:47] <natrium42> then it will split up
[19:47] <natrium42> np
[19:47] <jcoxon> will the box enlarge?
[19:47] <natrium42> not the info box
[19:47] <natrium42> but the marker box will
[19:47] <jcoxon> ooo cool
[19:48] <jcoxon> okay
[19:48] <jcoxon> will get testing
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[19:48] <natrium42> i made speed and heading optional too
[19:48] <natrium42> so they won't be shown if you don't provide them
[19:48] <jcoxon> thats a good idea
[19:48] <natrium42> so more room
[19:48] <jcoxon> often people are confused about when it reads 0
[19:49] <natrium42> yep
[19:49] <natrium42> dunno if i should make time optional too
[19:49] <edmoore> hourly preds really are all over the place
[19:49] <jcoxon> edmoore, yeah but i ran my float data
[19:49] <jcoxon> monday is still good
[19:49] <jcoxon> float sim*
[19:51] <jcoxon> natrium42, what is the new variable for GET?
[19:51] <natrium42> data
[19:51] <jcoxon> edmoore, also i got some hand warmers and space blanket
[19:51] <natrium42> hehe, did it snow yet?
[19:52] <natrium42> we got first snow 2 days ago
[19:52] <edmoore> cool
[19:52] <natrium42> pretty late this winter
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[19:57] <jcoxon> bbl
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[21:28] <edmoore> jcoxon: what's new?
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[21:29] <Laurenceb> hi
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[21:37] <Laurenceb> I dont believ it
[21:37] <Laurenceb> Ti use Geda
[21:37] <Laurenceb> for their design work
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[21:38] Action: Laurenceb just got emailed so .pcb files from their FAE
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[21:42] <Laurenceb> so much for no-one in industry using GNU tools
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[21:50] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[23:07] <Laurenceb> hmm this is interesting - you can configure the CC1020 as a UART interface with SPI for configuration
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[23:14] <MikeMc> EVening
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 12 2009