highaltitude.log.20091210

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[00:57] <ssapphiree> good night all
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[07:53] <jcoxon> morning all
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[08:03] <edmoore> morning all
[08:04] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[08:04] <edmoore> yo
[08:05] <edmoore> i was going to have a lie-in today as i've had a lot of pretty sleepless nights the ast few days
[08:05] <edmoore> set my alarm for 9, etc etc
[08:05] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:05] <edmoore> got a call at 7.30 from wattisham air field about NOTAMs
[08:05] <edmoore> sigh
[08:06] <jcoxon> wow they are on the ball for once
[08:06] <jcoxon> remember it was near impossible to get in contact in wattisham back in the Peg I day
[08:07] <jcoxon> they were never around
[08:07] <edmoore> on that point, need to talk to david miller again
[08:07] <edmoore> he's not answering emails
[08:07] <jcoxon> hehe again not unusual
[08:08] <jcoxon> :-p
[08:12] <edmoore> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/ rjw57 it only seems to be running two days
[08:13] <edmoore> having two people beginning with 'rj' is now completely going to confuse my utocomplete
[08:14] <jcoxon> that is very true
[08:15] <jcoxon> been looking at this quite cool morse code
[08:15] <jcoxon> well i think its cool
[08:15] <edmoore> oh?
[08:15] <jcoxon> storing dits and dahs as binary
[08:15] <jcoxon> so C = 10101
[08:16] <edmoore> morse is a 3-symbol code though
[08:16] <jcoxon> from least sig bit
[08:16] <jcoxon> so thats dah, dit, dah, dit and then the final one is to end it
[08:16] <edmoore> ah
[08:16] <jcoxon> oops wrong way round
[08:17] <jcoxon> no right way
[08:17] <jcoxon> http://brainwagon.org/2009/11/14/another-try-at-an-arduino-based-morse-beacon/
[08:27] <MikeMc> morning
[08:27] <edmoore> yo
[08:29] <MikeMc> any launches imminent?
[08:30] <jcoxon> perhaps...
[08:32] <jcoxon> is the general consensus that a london flyby is a bad idea?
[08:32] <jcoxon> actually i'm not sure its even allowed :-p
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[08:34] <MikeMc> surely it would be if it was above the height of commercial traffic
[08:35] <jcoxon> i seem to remember that if you apply for permission closer to london then they make it clear that you shouldn't fly over
[08:35] <jcoxon> its quite a big risk as well, if soemthing goes wrong or you get an early burst
[08:40] <edmoore> how near?
[08:42] <jcoxon> i can't remember - just something that came up once i think
[08:42] <jcoxon> i assume cambridge is not too near
[08:44] <jcoxon> edmoore, do you guys have any good nmea logs
[08:44] <jcoxon> to do some test runs with
[08:44] <edmoore> not really, i'm afraid
[08:44] <edmoore> we don't use nmea
[08:44] <edmoore> steve's sim?
[08:45] <jcoxon> yeah, the ascent rate is slightly too regular
[08:46] <jcoxon> will mess around perhaps add some randomness into it
[08:46] <edmoore> maybe worth writing a script
[08:46] <edmoore> oh no, that plan was rubbish, ignore that
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[09:00] <junderwood> http://spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=17l1cqniv0i5m154l2a23hm2i3
[09:01] <jcoxon> junderwood, i know -so wierd
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[09:01] <jcoxon> weird*
[09:02] <MikeMc> i'm highly sceptical of the 'failed russian rocket' explanation
[09:02] <jcoxon> i love the blue bit - its very thunderbirds evil deathray
[09:03] <russss> well I'm not sure what else it could be really
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[09:15] <rjharrison> Hi all
[09:16] <rjharrison> rjw57, do you have the link to the one hour preds?
[09:25] <jcoxon> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[09:29] <rjharrison> Thanks jcoxon
[09:29] <rjharrison> It would be really cool if you could seed launch loactions
[09:30] <rjharrison> I think if they did it for the available locations in the drop down list that would be good.
[09:30] <rjharrison> Then others would be catered for.
[09:33] <jcoxon> its only alpha alpha right now
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[09:52] <jcoxon> wow i hate my usb-serial converter
[10:08] <ssapphiree> guys, how much does actual trajectory of a balloon when you really launch it look like the predicted trajectory?
[10:09] <ssapphiree> is there a point in going to a predicted landing place before the balloon lands?
[10:09] <ssapphiree> or at least heading that place
[10:10] <russss> it's usually pretty accurate I think
[10:11] <russss> http://www.barentsobserver.com/failed-missile-launch-caused-strange-light-over-northern-norway.4663494.html
[10:11] <russss> "Interviewed by the Norwegian TV2, an anonymous Russian military source says it was failed launch of a Bulava missile from a submarine in the White Sea Wednesday morning."
[10:12] <ssapphiree> huh
[10:12] <ssapphiree> yeah
[10:12] <ssapphiree> the problem is that it's anonymous source
[10:12] <ssapphiree> no one has officially admitted that though
[10:13] <ssapphiree> though maybe our military guys are not going to admit a failed launch at all
[10:13] <ssapphiree> because it's... it's a failed launch!
[10:13] <ssapphiree> :))
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> It's clearly a space-octopus.
[10:16] <ssapphiree> :D
[10:17] <ssapphiree> maybe aliens just have taken an opportunity to appear in the sky and shift the responsibility for this onto russians :D
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[10:49] <MikeMc> Looks to me like something projected from the ground
[10:50] <ssapphiree> a space-octopus for example?
[10:50] <MikeMc> indeed
[10:50] <russss> MikeMc: it was visible over an area of several thousand sq km
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[10:51] <russss> so it would have had to have been an inconcievably massive projector
[10:51] <edmoore> norwegian lights, let me guess
[10:51] <MikeMc> yeah i'm not saying it isn't a 'failed russian rocket' but it sure looks CG generated
[10:52] <russss> you'd have thought the norwegians would know what the aurora looks like ;)
[10:52] <russss> also solar weather is still pretty quiet
[10:54] <ssapphiree> yeah, maybe this absolutely-no-sunspots solar weather is the reason for that I'm so sleepy last weeks
[11:17] <Laurenceb> it will be on hackaday soon
[11:18] <Laurenceb> /me used to do UFO hoaxes back in the day
[11:23] <Laurenceb> balsa wood frame with wheelie bin liners and maths burners + some flashing LEDs works well
[11:24] <russss> haha
[11:26] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8404991.stm
[11:27] <Laurenceb> you can see the ascent trail to the right
[11:27] <Laurenceb> *meths burners
[11:27] Action: Laurenceb wonders how you would burn maths
[11:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.virgin.com/travel/inside-virgin-travel/virgin-galactic-unveils-spaceshiptwo-1#more
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[11:36] <Laurenceb> lol @ the outline in white spray paint
[11:36] <russss> it's a nice looking ship
[11:36] <Laurenceb> they could have put some paper on the floor
[11:37] <russss> hah
[12:16] <Laurenceb> anyone want any CC1020 aval boards?
[12:17] <Laurenceb> apparently Ti will only manufacture more if they receive sufficient inquireys, or receive orders from a distributor
[12:19] <Laurenceb> if Fanrell get a few orders hopefully we'll have sucess
[12:20] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: http://hackaday.com/2009/12/08/overly-complicated-gas-guage
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[15:14] <ssapphiree> guys
[15:14] <ssapphiree> are there ways to control the position of a balloon in stratosphere?
[15:15] <ssapphiree> it's 1/1000 air density... would any propeller work?
[15:15] <ssapphiree> I mean... some
[15:17] <ssapphiree> or maybe... is that possible to use the magnetic field of Earth and Ampere's force?
[15:18] <russss> I would suspect that what little wind you have up there would quite easily counteract any magnetic force
[15:18] <ssapphiree> yeah... I guess you're right
[15:19] <russss> although satellites do sometimes use that technique
[15:19] <ssapphiree> oh
[15:19] <ssapphiree> I was already typing a question about that :))
[15:20] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_wheel
[15:20] <ssapphiree> so... how else can a balloon move up there?
[15:20] <russss> with difficulty, I think is the answer ;)
[15:23] <ssapphiree> :)) surely with difficulty... but there is a lot of free solar energy though!
[15:25] <ssapphiree> oh! once I saw a video of a high voltage device that spins a disk fast because of electrons emitting from two needles at the edge of the disk
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[15:26] <ssapphiree> maybe that principle could be used? High voltage and a needle headed backwards
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[15:27] <ssapphiree> that's strange though... what will it do when it runs out of electrons... 0_o
[15:29] <ssapphiree> hm
[15:30] <ssapphiree> there is a lot of ions in stratosphere, isn't it?
[15:30] <ssapphiree> well... in comparsion with normal atoms
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[15:31] <ssapphiree> maybe a payload could have some electric device that would grab ions from it's front and throwing it backwards with electric force!
[15:32] <ssapphiree> hasn't something like that been tried?
[15:32] <ssapphiree> somewhere
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[16:07] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[16:08] <ssapphiree> hey :)
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[16:14] <edmoore> jcoxon: yo
[16:15] <jcoxon> hey ssapphiree and edmoore
[16:15] <Randomskk> edmoore: remember what you were saying about getting a 2.4ghz dish to see if you could still pick a balloon's signal on that freq?
[16:16] <Randomskk> SF have a 2.4ghz transceiver ic with integrated mcu, "up to 2mbps" i.e. 250KB/s or so
[16:16] <Randomskk> whether you could get anything like that speed or even anything at all at distance I don't know, but if you could that'd be enough to stream compressed video etc
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[16:17] <Randomskk> ...or not :p
[16:18] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:18] <ssapphiree> having 250KB/s from stratosphere would be cool... :))
[16:19] <ssapphiree> make it long term and forget about finding it after landing
[16:19] <Randomskk> dunno what you'd use to receive it though
[16:19] <ssapphiree> well edmoore has left :))
[16:20] <Randomskk> a large dish could probably pick up 2.4ghz relatively well but with an omni antenna on the balloon the signal would hardly be great
[16:20] <Randomskk> and there's less kit for doing that kinda thing compared to 434
[16:20] <ssapphiree> yeah
[16:20] <russss> I have a 2.4GHz parabolic antenna somewhere
[16:20] <ssapphiree> though you could use directed antenna
[16:20] <Randomskk> pretty much any vhf amateur radio can pick up 434 and decode the rtty
[16:20] <ssapphiree> the problem is to stabilize it's swinging though
[16:20] <Randomskk> you might have to use the same microchip as for transmitting to receive
[16:21] <Randomskk> in which case it's harder to get really good receiver characteristics.. perhaps a decent LNA or something could help
[16:21] <russss> you could get quite a lot of gain at >20km with just a downward-facing omni
[16:22] <Randomskk> yea, I guess so
[16:22] <jcoxon> Randomskk, what sort of power?
[16:22] <Randomskk> but the problem is that as well as altitude the balloon moves a lot... perhaps if you could track it really well
[16:22] <Randomskk> and just drive very close to underneath
[16:22] <Randomskk> jcoxon: good question, checking ow
[16:22] <Randomskk> now*
[16:23] <jcoxon> the regs say:
[16:23] <jcoxon> 2400- 2483.5 MHz 10 mW e.i.r.p. - -
[16:23] <jcoxon> EN 300 440
[16:24] <ssapphiree> well, to track it really well all you have to do is to put a GPS receiver in the payload and transmit it through another channel something wide ranged
[16:24] <Randomskk> 4dBm
[16:24] <Randomskk> max for this chip
[16:24] <ssapphiree> transmit the coordinates*
[16:25] <Randomskk> yea, I mean e already do that, but also driving to stay underneath... eh, it migh tbe doable
[16:25] <Randomskk> depends on terrain too
[16:25] <Randomskk> if edmoore's current project works, you could just use it upside down
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[16:25] <Randomskk> mount a diisk instead of a telescope and keep it pointing near earth
[16:25] <edmoore> jcoxon: have a bottle of He for you
[16:25] <Randomskk> hi ed
[16:26] <Randomskk> <Randomskk> edmoore: remember what you were saying about getting a
[16:26] <Randomskk> 2.4ghz dish to see if you could still pick a balloon's
[16:26] <Randomskk> signal on that freq?
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[16:26] <Randomskk> <Randomskk> SF have a 2.4ghz transceiver ic with integrated mcu, "up
[16:26] <Randomskk> to 2mbps" i.e. 250KB/s or so
[16:26] <russss> Randomskk: but at altitude, a quite narrow-angle antenna facing directly at the ground is going to have quite a wide coverage spot
[16:26] <Randomskk> ew paste didn't go well
[16:27] <Randomskk> russss: right, yea. I mean, heck, real satellites work on like 10ghz and transmit broadcast satellite tv?
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[16:27] <russss> but I guess if it's EIRP then that's irrelevant anyway, because you're still talking 10mW
[16:28] <russss> doesn't matter if your antenna is directional or not from an efficiency POV
[16:28] <Randomskk> true
[16:28] <Randomskk> this thing's 4dBm is only like 2.5mW anyway, so I guess we'd need an amp too
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[16:39] <jcoxon> Randomskk, i think 868 is a better choice
[16:39] <jcoxon> Randomskk, receiver wise we can always borrow russss's GNU radio :-)
[16:40] <Randomskk> heh, neat
[16:40] <russss> 2400MHz is the max my radio is rated at
[16:41] <russss> (although we have determined it can tune higher, that's *undefined")
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[16:49] <MikeMc> Howdy
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[16:58] <jcoxon> is anyone incredibly bored and would like to help me with some coding?
[17:04] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, it can't hurt to submit a question :P
[17:04] <jcoxon> oh its not a question
[17:04] <jcoxon> its a job request :-p
[17:04] <DanielRichman> Aha :P
[17:04] <DanielRichman> what nature of job
[17:05] <jcoxon> basically i want someone to use steve's nmea sim code and make me some nmea logs which involve floating
[17:05] <jcoxon> so instead of up and down it goes up then floats for a bit
[17:06] <DanielRichman> I'm tempted to have a look, but not sure yet :)
[17:06] <DanielRichman> is the code on the wiki?
[17:06] <jcoxon> i could do it myself but i've got other hardware issues
[17:06] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, back to greek set text!
[17:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:06] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yawn
[17:06] <jcoxon> it'll be really easy :-)
[17:06] <jcoxon> its just a c program that takes a kml and makes nmea
[17:07] <jcoxon> but it sets its own ascent rate and is set to go up then down
[17:07] <jcoxon> i want a bit of float to test my float detection code
[17:07] <ms7821> oh that sounds achievable
[17:07] <ms7821> I'll be bored this evening if nobody else is
[17:08] <jcoxon> of course now the wiki is being slow...
[17:08] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:emulator
[17:09] <jcoxon> all i need is the GPSgen.c bit i've got a perl script to actually feed out the nmea strings
[17:12] <ms7821> alternatively, I'll do the greek and DanielRichman can code
[17:13] <DanielRichman> ms7821, you a fan of Cyclopes?
[17:16] <ms7821> Hesiodic or Homeric?
[17:16] <sbasuita> ms7821, homeric
[17:16] <sbasuita> ms7821, we have to learn it
[17:17] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, it appears that a float style sim can be achieved only by modifying input kml
[17:17] <ms7821> ahh, sadly can't help with that
[17:18] <jcoxon> but there is a section that makes ascent and descent rate assumptions
[17:18] <jcoxon> in the do_segment function
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[17:19] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, nah, that makes speed assumptions as far as i can see
[17:19] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, to work out how fast it should be travelling
[17:19] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, then how long it spent between those two coordinates; and therefore how many points to interpolate in between
[17:20] <jcoxon> so if i was just to generate a kml with a float section it'll be fine?
[17:21] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, I havent tried it myself, but hey, give it a go
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[17:21] <DanielRichman> one problem I can see, is that it assumes that the balloon is either going up or down
[17:21] <jcoxon> yeah thats what i mean
[17:21] <DanielRichman> I suppose one if clause can be added
[17:21] <DanielRichman> but that's like 2 lines
[17:22] <DanielRichman> got any example KML jcoxon ?
[17:22] <sbasuita> just make the kml balloon go up by a minute amount throughout the float?
[17:22] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:ballasthalo:kml_two
[17:23] <jcoxon> i actually don't care about the long/lat
[17:23] <jcoxon> as long as its got altitude and the checksum is fine
[17:24] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, it appears that at float the altitude doesn't change by more than 15m
[17:24] <DanielRichman> It will not be a perfect simulation at all, but I suppose you could:
[17:26] <jcoxon> i'll run that kml through the code
[17:26] <ms7821> if you're only worried about altitude I can't see any problem
[17:27] <ms7821> but for accuracy, you could just use a different Rate calculation during some "float" threshold, which can probably be calculated in advance from the entire flight
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[17:28] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, http://pastebin.com/m67be826d
[17:29] <DanielRichman> are all the coordinates in the kml of an equally spaced time from each other?
[17:29] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, roughly yes
[17:31] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, could we not just input said dt at the command line?
[17:32] <jcoxon> no reason not to
[17:32] <jcoxon> hehe this is why i wanted to outsource this job
[17:32] <ms7821> doesn't cut-down do its own calculation of dt? so you'd want to test both irregular timing and irregular speed?
[17:33] <jcoxon> at present i just want to emulate a floating balloon so that my flight computer can detect that its floating and can dump ballast
[17:33] <ms7821> well just to get it working, set Elapsed = some constant
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[17:36] <ms7821> but if you want to test missing samples, etc. pass a threshold (altitude or time) for float, and change Rate to sqrt(floattime) or something while floating
[17:37] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, try http://pastebin.com/m475774c4
[17:37] <DanielRichman> wait
[17:37] <DanielRichman> no scrap that
[17:37] <DanielRichman> 1 second... :P
[17:38] <jcoxon> hehe no worries i'm still running the new nmea i generated
[17:38] <jcoxon> only at 11812m
[17:40] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, http://pastebin.com/m45e7021b
[17:40] <DanielRichman> I've just hardcoded the Duration variable. Not exactly a shiny awesome solution, but meh
[17:41] <DanielRichman> (hardcoded as in not hardcoded but harder coded than the previous method)
[17:41] <jcoxon> so does it just read the kml altitude values and assume that each reading is equally spaced?
[17:42] <DanielRichman> I think so
[17:43] <jcoxon> cool so at hte cmd line you define the duration and then it'll run through the kml
[17:44] <DanielRichman> yep
[17:44] Nick change: Jos -> jos
[17:44] <DanielRichman> you might want to use your internal sanity check
[17:45] <jcoxon> someone should make a web version
[17:45] <jcoxon> a nmea generator, just provide the kml :-)
[17:45] <jcoxon> ooo we are at 20225m
[17:45] <jcoxon> nearly there...
[17:45] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, webifying that script doesn't look hard
[17:45] <DanielRichman> since php and C are nice and close
[17:46] <jcoxon> again a fun project for someone
[17:46] Nick change: jos -> Jos
[17:47] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, excuse me if i am not in a huge rush to do so :P sbasuita did mention some greek
[17:47] <jcoxon> hehe its no issue
[17:48] <jcoxon> i've got a long list of jobs todo - this is just one of them
[17:48] <jcoxon> will get on and make antennas
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[17:50] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, ooh, antennas. What kind?
[17:51] <jcoxon> hehe just a GP 1/4 wave for the main downlink and a stubby for the backup
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[18:09] <edmoore> wow, it's busy in here
[18:10] <jcoxon> indeed
[18:10] <jcoxon> and no replications
[18:11] <edmoore> never thought i'd see a scroll bar on the users list in this channel in all my years
[18:11] <edmoore> anywho
[18:12] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:12] <edmoore> jcoxon: sorry i was wrong about the current defaults on hourly predictions
[18:12] <edmoore> what would you like them changed to?
[18:13] <jcoxon> ummm lets go for 3m/s ascent
[18:14] <jcoxon> i guess thats all
[18:15] <edmoore> gah, rjw57 has them write protected
[18:17] <Randomskk> and he owns the folder.. and the folder above that.. etc
[18:17] <edmoore> emailed him
[18:18] <edmoore> pip is unhelpful in that respect
[18:21] <jcoxon> oh poo
[18:21] <jcoxon> the connectors i ordered are SMC not SMA
[18:21] <jcoxon> wow i'm an idiot
[18:23] <edmoore> you must have a local maplin
[18:23] <jcoxon> indeed i o
[18:23] <jcoxon> do*
[18:24] <jcoxon> thats an adventure for tomorrow
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[18:32] <jcoxon> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8404213.stm
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[19:00] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
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[19:09] <edmoore> 42!
[19:10] <edmoore> nerd jokes!
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[19:41] <edmoore> 41
[19:41] <edmoore> gah
[19:45] <jcoxon> grrr i don't get it
[19:45] <edmoore> ?
[19:45] <jcoxon> stupid i2c lib
[19:45] <jcoxon> i change one thing and it decides to get arsey
[19:46] <edmoore> i2c is from the hood
[19:46] <edmoore> you give it a command it doesn't like, and it returns with a stupid error message
[19:46] <edmoore> 'uhuh girlfriend'
[19:47] <edmoore> 'talk to the elbow, cos you ain't worth the extension'
[19:48] <jcoxon> very ghetto
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[19:49] <edmoore> phew, 42 again
[19:49] <edmoore> nerd balance is restored
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[19:58] <Hiena> Ehem.
[19:58] <Hiena> Anybody worked with PET?
[19:59] <Hiena> I'm trying to set a blowing rig, but this material kind of sensitive to the correct heat setup.
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> Only sort-of.
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> I've used coke bottles to make pipe adaptors
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> which probably isn't quite relevant
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> you're having problems getting even heating?
[20:00] <Hiena> I set the temp to 100 degree, but need a fairly high pressure to blow.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> IIRC the temp should be such that the film will sag a little.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> I think 100C is a bit low
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> assuming you mean C, not F or K.
[20:01] <Hiena> The common blowing temperature 105 degree.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> ok.
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> how sure are you that the plastic is actually hitting 105.
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> I found an infrared tehrmometer invaluable for this
[20:02] <Hiena> I run a test around 150 degree but that ruined the preform.
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> what preform/
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> big difference from 100-150
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> what's the preform
[20:03] <Hiena> I had a K type metal temp sensor for this purpose.
[20:04] <edmoore> Sulfur Hexafluoride is cool
[20:04] <edmoore> i want some
[20:04] <Hiena> Preform the material which used to blow the bottles. It looks like a test tube, with a screw on cap. I have a stock of 42g and 48g PETG material, which s a common
[20:04] <edmoore> might see if boc can give us some
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> I'd try boosting temp by 5c or so a time.
[20:05] <edmoore> infact
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: and some googling to find the appropriate blowing perssure.
[20:05] <edmoore> we could use Sulfur Hexafluoride is weather balloons as ballast
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: IIRC you should need quite high pressures, as you need to stretch the polymer to get it nice and shiny
[20:05] <edmoore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XbjFn3aqE&feature=fvw
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: if you use more heat and low pressure, it won't go clear
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: but I've only ever done thin films
[20:06] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, normally it's goes between 10-35 atm.
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> Plastic bottles are such interesting things.
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> Such engineering into a disposable item.
[20:07] <Hiena> Well, i'm currently working on a disposable UAVs. ;)
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> fun
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at something along the lines of a coke bottle
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> a while back
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> ~1m long 15cm dia bottle, with gimballed cells inside.
[20:14] <jcoxon> edmoore, fixed it :-)
[20:15] <edmoore> cool
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[20:28] <rjharrison_> Evening all
[20:31] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison_
[20:36] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) got lost in the net-split.
[20:37] <rjharrison_> hi jcoxon
[20:37] <rjharrison_> Hows it going
[20:37] <jcoxon> good thanks
[20:37] <jcoxon> you?
[20:37] <rjharrison_> Are you still after some NMEA data
[20:37] <jcoxon> in a bit yes
[20:37] <jcoxon> not right now
[20:38] <Laurenceb> hi
[20:38] <jcoxon> working on the real gps at present
[20:38] <rjharrison_> Does it have to be real or can I gen some for you
[20:38] <Laurenceb> hmm sulfur hexafloride ballast... interesting
[20:38] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: where you using my i2c code?
[20:38] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i'm not
[20:38] <Laurenceb> I tried to get mine to have a timeout, but yeah i2c can be annoying
[20:41] <rjharrison_> UK to have own space agency http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8404213.stm
[20:42] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i got rid of a few serial prints and changed the pullups and it seems happier now
[20:42] <jcoxon> rjharrison_, yeah, cool! potentially...
[20:42] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: do you have a timeout if it gets stuck?
[20:43] <Laurenceb> rjharrison_: presumably thanks to virgin galactic
[20:43] <jcoxon> yup
[20:43] <Laurenceb> they were talking all about there attempt to get this set up at SEDS
[20:43] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: cool
[20:46] <jcoxon> bbl
[20:46] <Laurenceb> hmm propane would make better ballast than sulphur hexafloride, if you exclude the flammability issue
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[21:11] <DanielRichman> Urgh, freaking netsplits.
[21:11] Action: DanielRichman stops using holmes.freenode.net
[21:13] <DanielRichman> ping sbasuita
[21:13] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, hi
[21:13] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you could use chat.freenode.net
[21:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, just reverted to the default irc.freenode.net... it's just that holmes. is meant to be a UK server, so, i thought...
[21:13] <sbasuita> actually irc.freenode.net w/e
[21:14] <DanielRichman> pssh It's only a few extra m/s to australia anyway
[21:14] <DanielRichman> so whatever country i get shouldn't be too bad
[21:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, will you bother finishing the greek comprehension??
[21:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i've just finished my highlighting. Will learn to page 8
[21:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, the comprehension?
[21:15] Action: DanielRichman waits for sbasuita to remember
[21:15] <sbasuita> tbf major sidetracking looking for mobile phones
[21:15] <DanielRichman> arrrgh sigh
[21:15] <DanielRichman> You'd better jailbreak it
[21:15] <sbasuita> the stuff we did in the lesson
[21:15] <sbasuita> ?
[21:15] <sbasuita> that wasn't prep
[21:15] <DanielRichman> and get debian on it
[21:15] <DanielRichman> You sure?
[21:15] <sbasuita> I would have written it down
[21:16] <DanielRichman> hmm. And what about the vocab?
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[21:19] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, er, learn everything but epsilon
[21:20] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, great minds think alike
[21:20] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, fools seldom differ
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[21:34] <Laurenceb> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/CC1020EMK-433/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuIes%252bYBRf57fU8KeClACMMKc7JNs%252b0NlI%3d
[21:34] <Laurenceb> hell yeah
[21:35] <Laurenceb> anyone ordered from mouser in the UK here?
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> no
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> I noticed they were offering free shipping over 50 qudi
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> spendy
[21:36] <Laurenceb> yeah its cheaper to buy direct
[21:36] <Laurenceb> but at least it exists
[21:36] <Laurenceb> Ti seemed to be hinting they wouldnt bother making up any new boards until they had more enquiries
[21:37] <Laurenceb> I guess its only marked up by 28%
[21:38] <Laurenceb> and you have to pay a markup from $ to £ anyway
[21:39] <Laurenceb> yeah its giving me free shipping
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[21:43] <Laurenceb> WiGig sounds insane
[21:54] <Laurenceb> 60GHz ?!
[21:57] <Randomskk> at least the antennas can be pretty small
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> and 60G has the _big_ advantage of limited range
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> so you don't get distant interfernece
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> also it makes phased array antennas truly practical, in handheld sized devices.
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> though - not yet, as one 60G radio is gonna be spendy nevermind an array of them
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[22:39] <jcoxon> mmm good quality glue sticks, none of this maplin rubbish
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[22:42] <edmoore> jcoxon: here's a video of the machine we've build to pick and place the components for the new badger2
[22:42] <edmoore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ_xyh4ehNo&feature=related
[22:43] <ssapphiree> 0_0
[22:43] <ssapphiree> nice
[22:44] <Randomskk> it's pretty fast
[22:44] <Randomskk> edmoore: does it also do error correction? :p
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[22:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:46] <jcoxon> wow
[23:21] <Randomskk> hmm. I still haven't found a single data mode transmission on 2m or 70cm that I can actually pick up
[23:21] <Randomskk> definitely need to rig up some kind of hf antenna I guess
[23:22] <edmoore> there's a source for you to play with
[23:23] <Randomskk> I think firefox is slowly loading Java or something?
[23:24] <Randomskk> ooh, snazzy.
[23:24] <Randomskk> edmoore: I take it a 3.5mm audio cable from the headphone out on the front panel to my laptop is the way to go for fldigi decoding?
[23:24] <edmoore> yep
[23:25] <Randomskk> and I guess transmitting requires a bit more in the way of ptt and stuff? rig some wires to the rj45 microphone jack or something?
[23:29] <edmoore> yes
[23:33] <Randomskk> woo. I programmed the repeater with the stupid 7.6mhz offset as a split mode one so I can still just flick to it, and still have the others as repeaters with the system-wide 1.6mhz offset
[23:33] <Randomskk> there were some people on that one earlier talking about how they only had a slight cold, not as bad as other people
[23:33] <Randomskk> I theorise the ailments obsession is because they are also mostly old people?
[23:35] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:58] <Laurenceb> how come the ICs arent shaken loose?
[23:58] <Laurenceb> the main board must be pulling a lot of Gs
[23:58] <Laurenceb> as its moved between each placing
[23:58] <edmoore> i think solder paste, but don't know
[23:59] <Randomskk> might be adhesive
[23:59] <Randomskk> especially for reflow boards with parts on both sides
[23:59] <Randomskk> bit wasteful to put it on both sides though
[00:00] --- Fri Dec 11 2009