[00:52] <SpeedEvil> hmm. http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9400 lot cheaper than historical
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[08:29] Nick change: grummund|pedant -> grummund
[08:54] <juxta> hmm. I got a response from our civil aviation authority re my balloon launch, looks like they want loads of information
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[11:16] <rjharrison_> .
[11:16] <rjharrison_> Everyone must be busy
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[14:14] <bittwist> hola rjharrison
[14:31] <jonsowman> hi all
[14:35] Action: SpeedEvil is washing gravel.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Which is fun.
[14:35] <jonsowman> erm, why?
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> It was dirty.
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Silly question really.
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> A more expansive answer:
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> A) Buy new gravel and membrane, put down over old.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> B) wash old gravel, place membrane that I already have, and put on top.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> Also B helps with excersize.
[14:38] <jonsowman> fair enough
[15:03] <rjharrison_> Hi bittwist
[15:04] <rjharrison_> SpeedEvil, keeping busy
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Getting to the point where I'm almost finished outside - well - for the moment.
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[16:21] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
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[16:40] <AlexBreton> good day everyone
[16:44] <RocketBoy> g'day - getting close to a launch?
[16:44] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, yep
[16:44] <sbasuita> Need to get a payload weight of dan when he gets here
[16:45] <RocketBoy> cool - is the payload finished?
[16:46] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, pretty much
[16:46] <jonsowman> where are you launching?
[16:46] <AlexBreton> cambridge
[16:46] <jonsowman> ah cool, might come along
[16:46] <jonsowman> got a rough idea on date?
[16:46] <AlexBreton> pfff...decemberish
[16:47] <AlexBreton> christmas ;P
[16:47] <jonsowman> :)
[16:50] <rjharrison_> AlexBreton is that EARS or UNI?
[16:50] <RocketBoy> cool - don't get caught by the do last minute tweeking trap
[16:50] <AlexBreton> we think university
[16:51] <rjharrison_> BTW Daniel should have 16GB card tomorrow
[16:51] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy any news on pics yet?
[16:53] <RocketBoy> not really - the Beeb havn't answered my Q - they have just said I'm free to link to their content (which I would have thought I was anyway) - I'm going to put some still up reguardless
[16:53] <AlexBreton> OK the CF card is going well on eBay
[16:53] <RocketBoy> stills
[16:54] <AlexBreton> 'In a vast warehouse, the size of eight football pitches and around 15 minutes from the centre of Milton Keynes more than a thousand workers are gearing up for what will likely be Amazon's busiest Christmas yet.'
[16:55] <AlexBreton> how much is that area expressed in Wales?
[16:55] <AlexBreton> xD
[16:56] Action: SpeedEvil repeats the above in a welsh accent.
[16:57] <russss> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(area+of+football+pitch+*+8)/+area+of+wales
[16:57] <russss> (wolfram alpha doesn't let me specify a soccer pitch
[16:57] <russss> )
[16:57] <AlexBreton> wales is a standard unit of area ;-)
[16:58] <AlexBreton> for countries especially
[16:58] <AlexBreton> 'Switzerland is about 5 times the size of Wales'
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[16:58] <edmoore> RocketBoy: ping
[17:02] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy, let me know when you get them up
[17:03] <RocketBoy> edmoore: yo
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[17:08] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, how much does the payload weigh?
[17:08] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, good point. brb, gonna weigh it
[17:08] <DanielRichman> with all the stuff inside
[17:10] <edmoore> RocketBoy: I was wondering if you had any kind of a feel / figure for the SNR of what we plonk into fldigi on a typical balloonn flight, specifically at the threshold of when fldigi starts to struggle?
[17:11] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, 550grams
[17:11] <DanielRichman> ish
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: I'd guess 3-4dB - but that is a guess based on memory
[17:11] <DanielRichman> make it 600 jic
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: Assuming gaussian noise, it has to be error-free over all 10 bits.
[17:17] <RocketBoy> edmoore: no I don't have any specific numbers - but suspect its not significantly different from truetty etc.
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> (memory, and eyeballing hte waterfall)
[17:18] <RocketBoy> as in state of the art (in the proper meaning of the term)
[17:20] <edmoore> ok. I guess 3-4dB sounds plausible
[17:22] <sbasuita> What sort of lines are typically used?
[17:22] <sbasuita> for payload<->parachute<->balloon
[17:22] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: braided nylon
[17:23] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, cool. Would you mind doing the calculations for balloon/parachute specs again?
[17:23] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: tis better than the twine which tends to cause the payload to twist
[17:23] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: sure
[17:24] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, thanks
[17:24] <RocketBoy> 550g?
[17:24] <RocketBoy> 30Km?
[17:24] <edmoore> note to all: don't use kevlar. sounds sexy, is crap.
[17:24] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, we were thinking 35km
[17:24] <RocketBoy> ok
[17:24] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, what's the price jump?
[17:25] <RocketBoy> I'll work that out depends on the balloon and helium
[17:26] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, well CU Spaceflight have agreed to let us use their helium supply, so that souldn't be too much of an issue
[17:26] <edmoore> within reason!
[17:26] <edmoore> don't turn up with a pair of 3kg balloons :p
[17:27] <RocketBoy> hehe - helium breathing party
[17:27] <Randomskk> haha
[17:27] <Randomskk> knock ourselves out :D
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: NO!!!
[17:27] <RocketBoy> lets replace that with nitrus
[17:27] <Randomskk> lol even funnier
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> http://www.sptimes.com/2006/06/03/Tampabay/2_found_dead_under_de.shtml
[17:28] <Randomskk> I think that might be taking it to extremes
[17:28] <Randomskk> that's a hell of a lot of helium
[17:28] <RocketBoy> OK - I'm assuming 600g (allowing for the chute and cord) going to 35Km
[17:29] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: that's a really terrible story
[17:30] <Randomskk> :(
[17:30] <Randomskk> helium should be fun
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> yes.
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[17:31] <Randomskk> I think BOC might be a little peeved if we used all their free helium to make our voices funny
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Hydrogen should give an even better 'squeak' than helium when breathed in.
[17:31] <Randomskk> but it would be pretty lol
[17:31] <Randomskk> lol true
[17:31] <Randomskk> but is slightly flammable
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[17:31] <Randomskk> don't go blowing any candles out
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:32] <Randomskk> the result would be spectacular I'm sure
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> It's all fun and games until the chest explosions.
[17:32] <russss> I want to try the voice trickwith SF6
[17:32] <Randomskk> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/21/bum_bombing/
[17:32] <Randomskk> It has emerged that a fanatical al-Qaeda suicide terrorist attempted to kill a Saudi interior minister last month by concealing a bomb up his bottom (the terrorist's, not the minister's). The strategy backfired, so to speak, as the bum-bomber's own body muffled the deadly arse-blast and his target escaped with only minor injuries.
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> russss: UF6!
[17:32] <Randomskk> fantastic story
[17:32] <russss> but that's got to be pretty easy to asphyxiate yourself with.
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[17:33] <SpeedEvil> russss: I suspect SF6 will be an anasthetic
[17:33] <russss> I've seen people inhale it before
[17:34] <russss> so it's not that bad
[17:34] <Randomskk> I have a really strong reaction to nitrous, it turns out
[17:34] <Randomskk> weird stuff
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> Ok - maybe not
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119338057/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
[17:35] <russss> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvvzItzLSxw
[17:35] <russss> that's also got the foil boat floating in SF6 trick
[17:36] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: 1200g balloon gets 600g to 35Km (5m/sec ascent rate) - 1.7cu m of helium
[17:37] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: 1500g balloon gets 600g to 36Km (5m/sec ascent rate) - 1.8cu m of helium
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[17:38] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: 3000g balloon gets 600g to 39.5Km (5m/sec ascent rate) - 2.1cu m of helium
[17:39] <RocketBoy> (no guarantees - mileage may vary)
[17:39] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, thanks, where's your website?
[17:45] <sbasuita> Ah found it - random solutions
[17:46] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, DanielRichman, what do you guys think? I'd go for 1200g because its a 15 quid price bump up to 1500 for 1km alt difference
[17:46] <sbasuita> let's be fair, 3kg is excessive
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[17:48] <sbasuita> Oh, cool, we can get the nylon cord for 15p/metre from random as well
[17:48] <sbasuita> And I guess a 24" parachute
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> If you drop the ascent rate, you get lots more than 1km
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> a 2.5m/s ascent on 1500, will get you to a lot more than 36km
[17:51] <sbasuita> SpeedEvil, how much more? Also, what is a typical ascent rate?
[17:51] <sbasuita> Don't want to be too slow I guess.
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> I think 5-8km or so
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> I forget the exact numbers.
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> The burst diameter remains constant
[17:52] <sbasuita> Hmm that is quite a lot
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> If you put less gas in, it bursts higher
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> however - you don't want to get too low - or it might float.
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Which would be bad - if you don't have a cutdown
[17:53] <sbasuita> Just don't want it to stray too far on a slow ascent - we don't have a cutdown
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah - prolly sane not to risk it then
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> A controllable leak would be interesting.
[17:54] <sbasuita> Hehe, I'm sure the views will be spectacular anyway ;)
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> Ascend to 33km, half the ascent rate.
[17:58] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: 1200g balloon gets 600g to 37Km (3m/sec ascent rate) - 1.6cu m of helium
[17:59] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: 1500g balloon gets 600g to 38Km (3m/sec ascent rate) - 1.65cu m of helium
[18:02] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: 3000g balloon gets 600g to 41Km (3m/sec ascent rate) - 2cu m of helium
[18:02] <RocketBoy> mmm - 135,000 feet
[18:04] <sbasuita> I think we'd still go for the 1200g balloon, and then a decision for ascent rate can be made closer to the date when we know the weather
[18:04] <sbasuita> But the figures are really helpful RocketBoy ;)
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[18:06] <RocketBoy> but to give you a more realistic idea the world ham record is 128,379ft
[18:09] <RocketBoy> and the uk record is 115,778ft
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[18:11] <RocketBoy> oops - all the helium volumes are wrong - I was reading off the balloon diameter - ther rest of the data is correct
[18:11] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, no worries
[18:13] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, DanielRichman, need to get this stuff ordered.....
[18:23] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
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[18:37] <DanielRichman> can i selotape the elements of the ground down without badly affecting the antenna's performance?
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[18:39] <DanielRichman> GREAT. BBL
[18:39] <DanielRichman> *caps
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[18:44] <AlexBreton> hmm?
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[21:03] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:03] <sbasuita> evening jcoxon
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[21:03] <jcoxon> hey sbasuita
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[21:18] <SpeedEvil> l
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> oops
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[21:25] <rjharrison> evening all
[21:26] <rjharrison> he jasonb
[21:26] <rjharrison> oops
[21:26] <Randomskk> hi
[21:26] <rjharrison> hey jcoxon
[21:26] <Jon_Apex> hi
[21:26] <rjharrison> Hi Randomskk
[21:26] <rjharrison> How is cambridge going
[21:26] <rjharrison> Is the work load oK?
[21:26] <Randomskk> almost almost into the last week
[21:26] <Randomskk> only just
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[21:27] <Randomskk> it's so okay that I've had practically no time to do anything else
[21:27] <Randomskk> so my quadcopter has not progressed significantly and neither has anything else really
[21:27] <rjharrison> Bit of an increase from A'levels
[21:27] <Randomskk> but I have done an awful lot of mechanics, structures, maths, linear circuits
[21:27] <Randomskk> and a little bit of some other stuff
[21:27] <Randomskk> just a slight increase :P
[21:27] <Randomskk> my official day is only 9 to 1, vs school being like 8:30 to 4, but...
[21:27] <Randomskk> the hours spent working are drastically increased :P
[21:28] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[21:28] <rjharrison> Hi jcoxon
[21:28] <rjharrison> How is ballast H going
[21:28] <rjharrison> Randomskk i'm glad you're coping
[21:28] <rjharrison> Hopfully the holidays will allow for a bit of habbing
[21:29] <jcoxon> rjharrison, haven't made too much progress
[21:29] <jcoxon> been slightly snowed under
[21:29] <Randomskk> yup, that's my plan
[21:29] <Randomskk> 5 weeks of holiday
[21:29] <Randomskk> and a whole load of examples papers to do, an essay to write, past tripos questions to try, ....!
[21:29] <rjharrison> Blimy anyone would think you're studying to be a dr!
[21:30] <rjharrison> ^^^ jcoxon
[21:30] <jcoxon> Randomskk, you are working far harder then i ever did in a michaelmass term
[21:30] <jcoxon> perhaps exam term
[21:30] <jcoxon> thanks rjharrison
[21:30] <jcoxon> nearly there - did you know that medicine has nearly taken up a quarter of my life
[21:30] <Randomskk> jcoxon: lol I can't tell, it seems like a lot of time just vanishes
[21:30] <jcoxon> oh 8 weeks are short
[21:30] <jcoxon> very short
[21:30] <jcoxon> thats what i miss
[21:31] <jcoxon> then the week of sleep at the end once you've handed in that final essay
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[21:31] <Randomskk> can't wait
[21:31] <jcoxon> rjharrison, started cutting the polystyrene for the payload
[21:31] <jcoxon> its going to be a big payload
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> you climbing inside?
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[21:32] <jcoxon> its having 50mm thick walls :-p
[21:32] <jcoxon> also i've worked out my weather parameters
[21:33] <jcoxon> basically if the no-float flight trajectory lands in the UK i'll launch
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[21:33] <jcoxon> so that if we don't acheive float we can recover
[21:33] <jcoxon> if it does float - who cares
[21:33] <rjharrison> ok
[21:34] <rjharrison> So you'll be able to launch before xmas on those parameters
[21:34] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:34] <jcoxon> i think they are reasonable
[21:34] <rjharrison> I guess the additional thickness is for insulation
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[21:34] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Annoying 'oooh - a doctor' question. how hard does the body try to maintain glycogen levels - in the event of a glucose peak in the blood, with low glycogen levels, will it all go to glycogen, or does some portion go to fat? What keywords should I be looking up?
[21:35] <jcoxon> and floating :-p
[21:35] <rjharrison> Are you going for the heater (Battery & R)
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[21:35] <jcoxon> rjharrison, yes
[21:35] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, it'll go to glycogen first then once the reserve is full it'll go to fat
[21:35] <jcoxon> but really a glucose peak will be taken up by cells
[21:35] <jcoxon> insulin promotes cellular uptake mainly
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Thought so - stuff I'm finding is ambiguous.
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> I mean when glucose rises over immediate need by some factor.
[21:36] <jcoxon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose_cycle
[21:37] Action: SpeedEvil is currently trying to work out blood glucose, and wishing he had a non-skin-piercing glucose meter. But apparantly they don't exist.
[21:37] <rjharrison> Hehe just a little prick
[21:38] <rjharrison> Does it hurt
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[21:38] <jcoxon> rjharrison, not really, the anticipation is the worse part :-p
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> I dunno. I'd however like to monitor multiple times a day (>10) - if I could - to get a better idea of what the levels feel like.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> I'm probably deeply overthinking this - and the ~800 calorie/day deficit is just fine.
[21:40] <rjharrison> I have one here in my draw
[21:40] <rjharrison> Did a week of testing once for fun
[21:40] <rjharrison> The fluctuation is quite remarkable
[21:40] <rjharrison> but am ! diabetic
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> Me neither.
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> AFAIK.
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> Just trying to see what blood sugar levels are doing after various meals.
[21:41] <jcoxon> rjharrison, the levels for diabetes are quite specific
[21:41] <rjharrison> Hey it's my birthday tomorrow
[21:41] <jcoxon> over 11.1 randomly or over 7.0 are 2hrs fast and a 75g glucose load
[21:42] <rjharrison> only 38 :(
[21:42] <rjharrison> It's amazing where it all goes
[21:42] <rjharrison> Time that is
[21:42] <jonsowman> happy birthday :)
[21:42] <rjharrison> Thanks jonsowman
[21:42] <jcoxon> happy birthday for tomorrow
[21:42] <rjharrison> Cheers guys
[21:43] <rjharrison> one month b 4 xmas
[21:43] <rjharrison> Going to chat to the wife for 20 mins
[21:43] <rjharrison> Will be back in a bit
[21:43] <rjharrison> jcoxon we aught to think about the next steps for fldigi
[21:44] <jcoxon> yes
[21:44] <jcoxon> i've already updated the svn with the latest version of fldigi
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> Happy birthday ! :)
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> (tomorrow)
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: wikipedia isn't very helpful - as it's an encyclopedia, not a textbook I suppose.
[21:48] Action: SpeedEvil wanders of to google. Thanks!
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[21:50] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, one sec i'll see what my notes say
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[21:53] <jcoxon> nah nothing useful and online
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[22:19] <DanielRichman> *tttttssssssssh*** ding ding *cough* *yuck* soldering iron vs expanded polystyrene, round tw-*cough*
[22:19] <DanielRichman> this cannot be good for me
[22:19] <DanielRichman> i probably should aim better with the flipping iron
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> IIRC the decomposition compounds of polystyrene are moderately non-toxic
[22:23] <DanielRichman> yet, the school won't let us throw it in the laser cutter since it's apparently too toxic for that kind of torture
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[22:26] <RocketBoy> Pudsey at the "Edge of Space" photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/sets/72157622870399462/
[22:27] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[22:27] <Randomskk> awesome
[22:27] <Randomskk> he looks pretty happy about it too
[22:27] <RocketBoy> yeah - it was me I'd be well worried
[22:27] <Randomskk> bang goes the theory did a previous balloon launch didn't they?
[22:27] <RocketBoy> if
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[22:28] <Randomskk> haha quite so
[22:28] <RocketBoy> with a lot of help from me
[22:28] <Randomskk> yea :P
[22:28] <RocketBoy> underlines lot
[22:28] <Randomskk> okay, you did a previous launch for bang goes the theory, right?*
[22:28] <jcoxon> hehe http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/4131384499/
[22:28] <RocketBoy> yeah
[22:28] Action: Randomskk saw you on teevee
[22:28] <jcoxon> nice poe
[22:29] <jcoxon> pose*
[22:29] <Randomskk> do the photos stop there?
[22:30] <RocketBoy> there are loads more - but they get progressivly misty form there on in
[22:30] <DanielRichman> was that on TV on the actual children in need day or is it being saved for the next bang series?
[22:31] <rjharrison> RocketBoy great
[22:31] <RocketBoy> DanielRichman: have you seen the clips?
[22:32] <rjharrison> RocketBoy what camera did you use for the stills
[22:32] <rjharrison> They look very good quality
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[22:33] <rjharrison> a560
[22:33] <rjharrison> hehe I read the flicker
[22:33] <RocketBoy> nothing special - just the usual A560
[22:34] <RocketBoy> http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BBC#p/search/3/jDL7R6r2uyc
[22:34] <RocketBoy> http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BBC#p/search/4/jdSJ1ft0ftk
[22:34] <RocketBoy> http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BBC#p/search/4/VEbULo2FIGA
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[22:38] <DanielRichman> RocketBoy, in the second video can I see another balloon in the distance?
[22:39] <RocketBoy> yeap
[22:39] <RocketBoy> yep
[22:39] <DanielRichman> What was it?
[22:39] <RocketBoy> that was rjharrisons sun flight
[22:40] <DanielRichman> oh right :P
[22:40] <RocketBoy> you can see it in the flickr photos too
[22:41] <RocketBoy> was the 1st time we launched two together
[22:41] <DanielRichman> ah, nice
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[22:41] <DanielRichman> you kept quiet about it :P
[22:41] <RocketBoy> they could both be seen by the CU crew in cambridge
[22:41] <DanielRichman> did you have to?
[22:42] <RocketBoy> yeah - until last week
[22:43] <DanielRichman> very nice footage anyway :)
[22:43] <DanielRichman> be back tomororw
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[22:47] <jiffe1> so right now the altitude record for amateur balloonists is 39km ?
[22:47] <jiffe1> pulling that off of http://www.arhab.org/ARHABrecords.htm
[22:48] <RocketBoy> yeah - under the rules of that set of records
[22:48] <jcoxon> yeah - recently set
[22:57] <jcoxon> thats a tough record to break
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Amateur balloonists is lower - the priest and the guy in the states.
[23:07] <jcoxon> guess when armchair amateur really involves chairs
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[23:52] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy
[23:53] <RocketBoy|Away> jcoxon: yo yo
[23:59] <jcoxon> RocketBoy|Away, pm working for you?
[00:00] --- Wed Nov 25 2009