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[08:56] <MikeMc> morning
[09:05] <jcoxon> morning MikeMc
[09:06] <MikeMc> hey
[09:10] <jcoxon> hey
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[10:53] <jonsowman> morning all
[11:01] <jcoxon> morning jon
[11:01] <jcoxon> morning jonsowman
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[12:05] <juxta> hi all
[12:05] <jcoxon> hey juxta
[12:06] <juxta> hey jcoxon: mind if that telem recording has no valid coords? it's cold outside tonight ;p
[12:07] <jcoxon> hehe,
[12:08] <jcoxon> ummm,if you just give me the telem string now i'll sort it out for you
[12:08] <jcoxon> and then we can test it trial and error style
[12:08] <juxta> sure, 2 secs
[12:10] <juxta> jcoxon: $$HORUS,2,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,0,0*7D
[12:10] <jcoxon> so
[12:10] <juxta> $$callsign,ticks,hour,minute,second,lat,long,alt,speed,numsats
[12:10] <jcoxon> okay
[12:11] <juxta> then *XORsum
[12:11] <juxta> and a newline at the end
[12:11] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison
[12:11] <jcoxon> hmmm rjharrison hasn't given me write access
[12:11] <jcoxon> once he has i'll set up the xml file
[12:12] <juxta> sure :)
[12:13] <juxta> thanks a bunch jcoxon :D
[12:13] <jcoxon> np
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[12:14] <AlexBreton> hi guys
[12:14] <AlexBreton> we're about to build the payload
[12:14] <jcoxon> yay
[12:14] <juxta> is that the ALIEN payload, AlexBreton?
[12:14] <AlexBreton> yes
[12:15] <AlexBreton> we have polystyrene ready
[12:15] <juxta> awesome
[12:15] <AlexBreton> waiting for dan to turn up with the electronics
[12:17] <jcoxon> i've finally got this damn level sensor working
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[12:18] <juxta> is that for a ballast tank jcoxon?
[12:18] <jcoxon> yes
[12:19] <edmoore> morning all
[12:19] <juxta> nice - what are you using as ballast?
[12:19] <juxta> hi edmoore
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:20] <jcoxon> juxta, probably ethanol/methanol
[12:21] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, the missing component was a cleaner powersupply
[12:21] <edmoore> bbiab
[12:21] <jcoxon> added some caps and it started working
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> decoupling is always fun.
[12:22] <juxta> wouldnt ethanol or methanol boil off at high altitudes?
[12:22] <jcoxon> at a low temperature as well
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> it's also bloody cold
[12:22] <jcoxon> from our calcs it won't boil off too much
[12:22] <juxta> ah good point
[12:23] <juxta> how long will your balloon be up for?
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[12:24] <juxta> (I'm guessing that's what the ballast is for? to keep it in the air as long as possible?)
[12:24] <jcoxon> well the test flight 'ballasthalo3' will be over night
[12:24] <jcoxon> but a trans-atlantic flight will be a 3 days
[12:24] <juxta> whoa
[12:25] <jcoxon> okay so i've got a full tank gives a reading of 41
[12:25] <jcoxon> and an empty tank 4
[12:25] <juxta> is that at ~100,000 feet the whole time? or maintaining flight in the jet stream?
[12:25] <jcoxon> with exponential decay in between
[12:26] <jcoxon> juxta, for the trans-atlantic it'll be in the JS so around 30,000ft
[12:27] <jcoxon> oops other way round, full tank = 4, empty tank = 42
[12:27] <edmoore_> it's gonna be chilly
[12:27] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[12:28] <edmoore_> yo
[12:29] <edmoore_> oh today is a good good day
[12:29] <edmoore_> a feature length columbo on tv this afternoon
[12:29] <edmoore_> and coding
[12:29] <jcoxon> haha
[12:29] <jcoxon> term must be nearly over?
[12:30] <edmoore_> tis week7
[12:32] <Randomskk> and almost halfway through 7 at that
[12:34] <MikeMc> will you get permission to fly at 30,000 feet?
[12:34] <juxta> I was going to ask that
[12:34] <juxta> as well as what sort of clearance you'd need to fly internationally
[12:35] <jcoxon> MikeMc, so we'll fly out east from the states towards africa
[12:35] <jcoxon> the FAA are most happy with this flight path
[12:35] <MikeMc> cool
[12:35] <jcoxon> other attempts have been to go towards teh UK however this is the busy route so they aren't so happy with that
[12:36] <jcoxon> it seems as long as your warn them in advance and provide a method of tracking then they are happy
[12:37] <Randomskk> nice of them
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[12:39] <juxta> jcoxon: what are your civil aviation authority restrictions like in the UK?
[12:39] <jcoxon> the restrictions are relatively relaxed
[12:39] <jcoxon> need permission, takes about a month to come through, they review the site
[12:39] <jcoxon> then once the 'permission' has been given you just need to call up the local ATC before hand
[12:43] <juxta> do you have any restrictions on balloon sizes?
[12:43] <juxta> hrmm
[12:43] <juxta> our restrictions are a little odd
[12:43] <juxta> there are a bunch of classes - small, light, medium & heavy
[12:44] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
[12:44] <juxta> small is something with less than 50g payload, light has a maximum payload of 4kg, but also must not be launched with a balloon which exceeds 2m at any time during flight
[12:45] <juxta> I dont think it's possible to even launch 400g with a balloon not exceeding 2m
[12:45] <juxta> then there are medium and heavy - medium being 4kg-6kg, no balloon size limit, heavy being in excess of 6kg
[12:46] <juxta> medium and heavy have all kinds of strict rules & requirements, which is going to make things tricky
[12:48] <juxta> things like this:
[12:48] <juxta> While the balloon is below 60 000 feet pressure altitude, if it cannot
[12:48] <juxta> be tracked visually from the ground or by radar, the operator must
[12:48] <juxta> ensure that a tracking aircraft accompanies it continuously.
[12:49] <jcoxon> speak to those guys who launched a couple of weeks ago perhaps
[12:50] <juxta> yeah - I don't have any contact details for them though :(
[12:54] <juxta> I don't understand the light category though, given that the payload wieght limit is 4kg, a 2m diameter cap is not sensible
[12:56] <jcoxon> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/offtheshelf-expedition-takes-flight-20091014-gw6o.html
[12:56] <juxta> ah cheers jcoxon, I came across this one a while ago, but forgot the URL
[12:58] <juxta> I'll give CASA a call tomorrow and see what they say
[12:59] <edmoore_> motto: mi cases es tu casa
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[13:03] <bittwist> wow
[13:03] <bittwist> haters on those comments
[13:03] <bittwist> from that smh.com.au site
[13:03] <juxta> I've never seen a comment on an Australian news site which wasn't somehow insulting to somebody
[13:04] <MikeMc> arseholes
[13:04] <bittwist> t. It's also too bad this project is almost a complete ripoff of one by some students in the USA ... hardly an original idea in concept or execution - check out http://space.1337arts.com/
[13:04] <bittwist> alrighty guys
[13:04] <bittwist> its already been done
[13:04] <bittwist> wrap up what your doing
[13:04] <bittwist> nothing else to accomplish
[13:04] <bittwist> its all over
[13:04] <bittwist> done with
[13:04] <bittwist> find another hobby
[13:04] <bittwist> its been done
[13:04] <bittwist> :P
[13:04] <MikeMc> lol
[13:04] <MikeMc> exactly
[13:04] <bittwist> what jerks
[13:05] <juxta> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26383194-421,00.html
[13:05] <juxta> todays news, have a read of the comments
[13:05] <bittwist> if i felt like registering there to comment, i would post "well i dont see you sending anything into the upper reaches of our planet's atmosphere."
[13:06] <bittwist> juxta: at least there is a comment that redeems the entire thread
[13:06] <bittwist> This map helps to put things into perspective: http://www.aus-emaps.com/fires.php
[13:06] <bittwist> Posted by: Arek 5:21pm today
[13:07] <bittwist> clear, concise, not insulting, and includes a link :D
[13:07] <bittwist> someone give that man a cookie
[13:07] <juxta> indeed
[13:08] <bittwist> sadly, in the ##politics channel i help moderate, there is very few good .au peers
[13:08] <bittwist> same with .za
[13:08] <juxta> doesn't really surprise me to be honest :)
[13:08] <bittwist> people from south america are suprisingly nice
[13:09] <bittwist> for random irc peers coming onto a political channel where heated ideas are exchanged
[13:09] <bittwist> that is
[13:10] <juxta> I imagine moderating a politics irc channel would be difficult
[13:11] <bittwist> it is when the trolls get a foot in the door
[13:11] <bittwist> the past few months its been ok
[13:11] <bittwist> we have users that lynch trolls and eat them up
[13:11] <juxta> haha
[13:11] <bittwist> so its fun when only one or two manage to saunter in
[13:16] <AlexBreton> It's snowing in the breton household
[13:16] <juxta> polystyrene is horrible like that
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Water helps lots
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Also - a _really_ sharp narrow bladed knife
[13:18] <juxta> or a hot wire cutter
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> smeared with a little fairy liquid
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> that too
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> but a sharp narrow-bladed knife is almost as good
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> and a hell of a lot less fuss to set up
[13:19] <juxta> that's true :)
[13:19] <edmoore_> hot wire all the way
[13:20] <juxta> this is what I whipped up:
[13:20] <juxta> http://www.projecthorus.org/IMG_2965.JPG
[13:20] <juxta> excuse the poor photo, but you get the idea
[13:22] <edmoore_> just saw you got a 706
[13:22] <edmoore_> nice radio!
[13:23] <juxta> yeah, it seems great so far
[13:23] <juxta> I'll be sitting for my license soon too :)
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[13:25] <juxta> bought some aluminium the other day too, will be making up a yagi tomorrow hopefully
[13:34] <edmoore_> I am tempted to make a lindenblad
[13:34] <edmoore_> they look cool
[13:34] <edmoore_> that's really the only reason
[13:34] <Randomskk> sufficient, though :P
[13:34] <edmoore_> well, also lots of peeps have told me that they perform very well for omnis
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[13:36] <juxta> i'm off to bed for now
[13:36] <juxta> night all
[13:38] <bittwist> nn
[13:41] <AlexBreton> We're going to cover the box in duct tape to mask the crude geometry anyway
[13:41] <AlexBreton> Is PVA alright?
[13:41] <AlexBreton> (glue)
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[13:56] <AlexBreton> I assume PVA is used?
[14:25] <jcoxon> AlexBreton, i use hot glue
[14:26] <AlexBreton> ok
[14:50] <AlexBreton> err
[14:50] <AlexBreton> won't hot glue melt the polystyrene?
[14:50] <jcoxon> at the top ends of temp yes
[14:51] <jcoxon> but i won't disolve the polystyrene unlike most glues
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[15:07] Nick change: AlexBreton -> DanielRichman
[15:07] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: decision time: Overall (strength etc.) would PVA or Hot Glue be better?
[15:08] <DanielRichman> rjharrison: what do you build your payloads with? PVA or Hot Glue?
[15:08] <jcoxon> i personal would use hotglue
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[16:40] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[16:40] <jcoxon> got your message
[16:49] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, wuu2
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[16:55] <DanielRichman> building driven elements
[16:56] <DanielRichman> out of coat hangers
[16:59] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, moxon?
[17:00] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no tx antenna 1/4 wave
[17:00] <DanielRichman> though we cud build a moxon
[17:00] <DanielRichman> nice idea
[17:01] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, have you put the electronics inside yet?
[17:01] <DanielRichman> sbasuita: they're nice and comfortably inside
[17:01] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, i usually just use normal wire for the antenna
[17:02] <jcoxon> as they are a bit softer when landing
[17:02] <DanielRichman> elastic band holding box shut; i'll be hotglueguning it at home
[17:02] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you cut a hole for the camera?
[17:02] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, how are the electronics going to be held inside the box
[17:03] <DanielRichman> we made a hole
[17:03] <DanielRichman> camera is held by wire
[17:03] <DanielRichman> rest is held by cardboard partitions
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[17:19] <rjharrison> Hi all
[17:20] <rjharrison> DanielRichman hot glue
[17:20] <rjharrison> jcoxon I'll set the permissions for you
[17:20] <rjharrison> DanielRichman pictures ?
[17:23] <edmoore> DanielRichman: may I second the recommendation that you don't make the balloon antenna out of coat-hanger
[17:24] <edmoore> pets don't like that kind of thing landing on them
[17:24] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yeah, just use soft wire dan
[17:25] <DanielRichman> dood
[17:25] <DanielRichman> erm
[17:25] Nick change: DanielRichman -> AlexBreton
[17:25] <sbasuita> ...
[17:26] <AlexBreton> So is the only issue with making the antenna out of coat hanger impaling pets
[17:26] <AlexBreton> ?
[17:26] <edmoore> yes
[17:26] <AlexBreton> ah well
[17:26] <edmoore> don't fly a balloon payload unless you wouldn't object to it landing on your face
[17:26] <edmoore> that's the rule
[17:26] <AlexBreton> they ought to be clever enough to get out of the way
[17:27] <Randomskk> kinda hard to see it coming really
[17:27] <edmoore> when the parachute falls off and it comes in ballistically, you probably won't have time
[17:28] <AlexBreton> maybe we can have some foam on it or something
[17:28] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, just make it out of wire
[17:28] <AlexBreton> or have the radials out of coat hanger and the driven out of soft wire
[17:29] <edmoore> most people just use some soft wire in a drinking straw
[17:29] <edmoore> or embedded in some foam
[17:31] <AlexBreton> well we think that the 2mm thick coast hangers look rather epic
[17:32] <Randomskk> look pretty epic sticking out of someone too
[17:32] <AlexBreton> can we keep 4 of the 5 epic elements for radials and just make the driven element out of wire?
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> make sure if you do that that you put caps on the ends of the wires, and the wires break away easily
[17:33] <sbasuita> would the efficiency of the antenna be significantly degraded if we mixed the metals though?
[17:41] <edmoore> no
[17:41] <edmoore> infact steel is probably the worst metal to use anyway
[17:41] <edmoore> in terms of resistance
[17:41] <sbasuita> Hmm
[17:41] <edmoore> if you use them for radials, as others have side, just make sure there's something soft on the ends
[17:42] <edmoore> like some foam squash balls or something
[17:42] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, is it that much effort to remove the steel and replace it with copper wire?
[17:43] <AlexBreton> we don't have any copper wire sbasuita
[17:43] <AlexBreton> ok we do
[17:43] <rjharrison> AlexBreton, sbasuita don't you have some spare house wire kicking about
[17:43] <AlexBreton> but we've made these awesome elements
[17:43] <AlexBreton> out of iron
[17:44] <AlexBreton> dan has some copper wire
[17:44] <sbasuita> rjharrison, I left alex and dan to it as i'm a bit busy and not feeling well
[17:44] <sbasuita> rjharrison, maybe a mistake
[17:44] <rjharrison> Lighting wire is quite good as it's only 1.5mm
[17:44] <rjharrison> hehe I'm sure they will be fine
[17:44] <rjharrison> some balls of fimo would be perfect on the ends
[17:45] <rjharrison> Preferably not pink fimo
[17:45] <AlexBreton> these elements look fine to me
[17:45] <AlexBreton> something soft on the end to curb the lethality
[17:46] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, come on alex, the resistance of iron is 6 times higher than copper. we've only got 10mW coming out of the transmitter! http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=resistance+iron+vs+copper
[17:48] <AlexBreton> we're not sure it's iron
[17:48] <AlexBreton> could be steel
[17:48] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, steel is even worse
[17:49] <Randomskk> steel is sliiightly better than iron it seems
[17:49] <Randomskk> but still worse than copper
[17:49] <rjharrison> Oh the technicalitis of hab
[17:50] <AlexBreton> ok. daniel will use some copper wire to make the tx antenna when he gets home. but these coathanger elements do look very badass. shame for them to go to waste
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[17:51] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, you could hang them up on the ceiling
[17:53] <AlexBreton> sbasuita: can you email daniel the phone number of bracknel metals
[17:54] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, why do we need to go there!?
[17:55] <rjharrison> Use then for acccessing the local repeater on 70cm's
[17:55] <rjharrison> AlexBreton can you tell daniel that I havn't sent the SD card let will do tomorrow
[17:56] <rjharrison> Bit busy on Fri and Sat at a works annual meeting
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> Compute the current flowing due to a 50 ohm radiation resistance with a 10mW transmitter.
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> It's not real huge
[17:56] <AlexBreton> ok
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[18:43] <DanielRichman> ping AlexBreton sbasuita
[18:43] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, hi
[18:47] <AlexBreton> ye
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[18:48] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, AlexBreton, I have found a hot melt glue gun (!)
[18:48] <DanielRichman> somehow my brother managed to justify the purchase and subsequent waste of about 5 sticks of hot melt glue
[18:48] <DanielRichman> but there's one left, which I have reposessed
[18:51] <AlexBreton> good
[18:52] Action: DanielRichman sets up a hot melt glue gunning station on his floor
[18:56] <AlexBreton> gonna put the box together?
[18:56] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, yes
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> polystyrene tends not to hot melt well
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> At least not if you let it get very hot - try it with the glue as cool as possible
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> otherwise it can melt the polystyrene, not glue
[18:58] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, actually, scratch that, I'm eating now. Will build later
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[19:09] <AlexBreton> sbasuita, we're selling the CF card?
[19:10] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, the school paid for it right?
[19:10] <AlexBreton> no
[19:10] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, didn't we give the school a receipt for it?
[19:10] <AlexBreton> yeah but they haven't paid for it
[19:10] <AlexBreton> they're wastemen
[19:11] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, I guess you can sell it, but make sure you cancel that school request
[19:11] <AlexBreton> sure
[19:11] <AlexBreton> bloody bursar
[19:11] <AlexBreton> he's probably expanding his bong collection as we speak
[19:11] <gordonjcp> BURRRRRSAAAAAAAAR!
[19:12] <gordonjcp> dried frog pill, old chap?
[19:12] <AlexBreton> only someone breathtakingly stupid or completely high on illicit substances could be that incompetent
[19:12] <AlexBreton> hehe
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[19:37] <DanielRichman> damn, I would not want to be a piece of polystyrene right now
[19:37] Action: DanielRichman serves up some hot glue gunnage
[19:37] <DanielRichman> ping AlexBreton
[19:37] <DanielRichman> it's underway
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[19:41] <AlexBreton> good
[19:42] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, 5 minutes and it's pretty much done. Gonna mark out places for the partitions and glue in the veyr last bits
[19:43] <DanielRichman> then need to raid the duct tape supplies
[19:43] <AlexBreton> good
[19:45] <natrium42> so... when's launch?
[19:47] <DanielRichman> what is this thing you speak of, launch?
[19:47] <DanielRichman> could make it an xmas launch
[19:47] <natrium42> :P
[19:47] <natrium42> hmm, could payload have a red nose/
[19:47] <DanielRichman> a
[19:47] <DanielRichman> good god
[19:47] <DanielRichman> that's brilliant
[19:47] <DanielRichman> DONE.
[19:47] <natrium42> XD
[19:48] <DanielRichman> don't want it to get in the way of the shots though
[19:49] <DanielRichman> so maybe it can be rudolph with a camera-ass
[19:50] <AlexBreton> well
[19:50] <AlexBreton> how about a Santa figure on it?
[19:50] <AlexBreton> that could make the news
[19:50] <DanielRichman> hmm... I like it
[19:50] <AlexBreton> Santa goes into space
[19:50] <DanielRichman> just put him next to the gps antenna
[19:51] <DanielRichman> but i would like a rudolph face with an LED nose
[19:51] <DanielRichman> a BIG rudolph face
[19:51] <DanielRichman> the face that the camera is on is 12x8cm
[19:51] <DanielRichman> so on the opposite face to that we could have rudolph
[19:51] <DanielRichman> with santa sitting on the top
[19:51] <DanielRichman> (hangon - gotta think weight here. Remember, santa is a phatty)
[19:53] <natrium42> you could also drop a present with a little chute
[19:53] <AlexBreton> oh deer
[19:53] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman, blog about box construction
[19:53] <AlexBreton> put the piccies in a draft
[19:53] <AlexBreton> I can do the text if you want
[19:59] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, is it imperative that you have pictures of its construction or just the finsihed thing?
[20:01] <AlexBreton> preferably both
[20:01] <AlexBreton> but it's only a blog
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[20:10] <rjharrison> AlexBreton do we have any pics up onf the payload yet>
[20:10] <rjharrison> ?
[20:10] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman has them
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[20:10] <AlexBreton> just picture a polystyrene box ;-)
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[20:13] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, it is your job to procure a santa figure
[20:13] <DanielRichman> preferably one that lights up. If i cba i'll hook it up to the electronix
[20:14] <sbasuita> Really, let's not.
[20:14] <DanielRichman> seriously, let's
[20:15] <DanielRichman> ok maybe not one that lights up, but atleast a santa or rudolph figure
[20:15] <rjharrison> Historically we have avoided noises and flashing lights on payload but I guess a santa would not be considered dangerouse
[20:15] <rjharrison> Just makes sure contact details are clear
[20:22] <AlexBreton> Hmmm
[20:22] <AlexBreton> santa gives less credibility
[20:22] <AlexBreton> but makes sure we get into news
[20:22] <sbasuita> We are not putting a santa on the payload.
[20:29] <AlexBreton> I am gonna list the CF card
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[20:34] <AlexBreton> how many pics did we take on it DanielRichman ?
[20:35] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, why?
[20:35] <AlexBreton> wanna know
[20:35] <AlexBreton> for the ebay listing
[20:35] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, what, so you can boast about how many it fits or how worn the flash is?
[20:35] <AlexBreton> how many it fits
[20:35] <DanielRichman> er
[20:35] <AlexBreton> I just said 'used once'
[20:35] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, lulz
[20:35] <DanielRichman> we took 1000 but that wasn't full
[20:36] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, just say its size
[20:36] <DanielRichman> go do the math yourself
[20:36] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, or stick it in a camera and see how many photos the camera claims it can fit
[20:36] <DanielRichman> also make sure you specify the MP and quality of those photots
[20:36] <AlexBreton> 4000MB/2
[20:36] <sbasuita> "BBC iPlayer is down for maintenance. We'll be back shortly. " gaaaah
[20:36] <AlexBreton> =2000 photos theoretically
[20:37] <sbasuita> Where will I get my political satire from now :(
[20:47] Action: russss is plotting trying to tool up the london hackspace for PCB fabrication
[20:54] <natrium42> so are you brits serious about those new digital laws?
[20:54] <natrium42> like the three strike rule etc?
[20:55] <DanielRichman> what is this?
[20:55] <russss> I will start getting annoyed if and when they actually pass the law
[20:56] <russss> I've written to my MP about it, but I write to her about a lot of things and she generally tends to ignore me
[20:56] <AlexBreton> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140361921034
[20:56] <natrium42> is there a good chance that it will pass?
[20:56] <AlexBreton> well
[20:56] <AlexBreton> I don't care
[20:56] <AlexBreton> all my piracy is encrypted
[20:57] <AlexBreton> they shouldn't have the right to cut internet
[20:57] <natrium42> afaik they don't need to provide proof
[20:57] <AlexBreton> in france, greece, finland and estonia internet access is already a legal right
[20:57] <natrium42> so anything that looks suspicious can be flagged
[20:57] <AlexBreton> they don't need to provide proof?
[20:57] <natrium42> afaik no
[20:57] <AlexBreton> so it's just arbitrary punishment
[20:57] <AlexBreton> no way
[20:57] <AlexBreton> there's a big lobby behind this
[20:57] <natrium42> indeed :P
[20:58] <natrium42> it's "too much work" to provide proof
[20:58] <natrium42> so they don't want to bother with it
[20:58] <AlexBreton> the minister responsible had dinner with some records producers on a yacht somewhere in the mediterranean lately
[20:58] <AlexBreton> that's god damn proof
[20:58] <natrium42> rofl
[20:59] <AlexBreton> we think our governent is fair...a giant illusion
[20:59] <AlexBreton> I'll move to spain or france
[20:59] <AlexBreton> in france they can't cut my internet
[20:59] <AlexBreton> and in spain illegal downloads aren;t illegal
[20:59] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, reserve price?
[20:59] <AlexBreton> none
[20:59] <AlexBreton> get rid of it quick
[20:59] <natrium42> but france is too socialist
[21:00] <natrium42> it's good to live in, but not so good to do business in
[21:00] <AlexBreton> socialism is good
[21:00] <AlexBreton> socialism provides public services that work
[21:00] <natrium42> i don't disagree
[21:00] <AlexBreton> healthcare that's possibly the best in europe, a train network that isn't broken/delayed/crap like the privatised UK one
[21:00] <natrium42> but if you have any dreams to start up a company and grow, then i'd look elsewhere
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[21:01] <AlexBreton> well why is the business environment so bad?
[21:01] <natrium42> and that's the cue for edmoore
[21:01] <AlexBreton> they recently abolished corporation tax I believe
[21:01] <edmoore> ?
[21:01] <russss> I don't really have good intuition on whether the bill will pass.
[21:01] <russss> it's certainly had a fairly unusual history
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[21:01] <natrium42> edmoore: we have been discussing the new digital laws
[21:01] <natrium42> :P
[21:02] <edmoore> don't look at me
[21:02] <natrium42> IT'S ALL YOUR FAUL >:[
[21:02] <natrium42> +T
[21:03] <AlexBreton> frankly, the police should be catching real criminals
[21:03] <AlexBreton> torrenting is a) not serious b) impossible to tackle effectively c) growing like mad
[21:04] <AlexBreton> the real criminals are the corporate fat cats at the records labels who are making loads of money based on the work of their artists
[21:04] <natrium42> the problem is that they don't have to provide a proof
[21:04] <DanielRichman> There's about 5-6 cm between the antenna and the radiometrix
[21:04] <AlexBreton> ideally records companies ought to be nationalised and all digital music free as a result
[21:04] <DanielRichman> should i put coax there or will just copper do?
[21:04] <natrium42> so even if you are not doing anything illegal, you & your family can be disconnected
[21:05] <edmoore> co-ax
[21:05] <DanielRichman> gotcha
[21:05] <DanielRichman> coax is a pain to solder :(
[21:05] <AlexBreton> and an ISP is not a body that has a right to impose sanctions
[21:05] <AlexBreton> since when does Virgin media have the right to punish me
[21:05] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, pics are on their way soon, just adding antenna
[21:05] <AlexBreton> good
[21:05] <natrium42> yeah, it's messed up
[21:05] <AlexBreton> the music industry is going to need a huge overhaul
[21:06] <AlexBreton> they're clinging on to an outdated business model
[21:06] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, actualeh.... I might cba it
[21:06] <AlexBreton> it is impossible to make people pay for something that can be copied and sent to anyone with internet in minutes, for free
[21:06] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, probs will build antenna tomorrow afternoon, unless you want to do it at school
[21:06] <AlexBreton> that's like making people pay for air
[21:06] <AlexBreton> k
[21:07] <DanielRichman> I'll put all the stuff inside, take a few shots, then upload
[21:07] <natrium42> AlexBreton: http://www.taranfx.com/blog/nobel-peace-price-to-linux-architect
[21:07] <DanielRichman> i'll describe the pictures briefly but the prose is up to you]
[21:07] <natrium42> about damn time
[21:07] <AlexBreton> he certainly deserves it more than previous recipients
[21:08] <AlexBreton> Al Gore...wtf...make a junk science documentary and receive a nobel prize
[21:08] <AlexBreton> barack obama...hasn't really done much
[21:08] <natrium42> indeed
[21:09] <AlexBreton> and yasser goddamn arafat
[21:09] <AlexBreton> the nobel peace prize committe really don't know what they're talking about
[21:09] <AlexBreton> Al Gore could potentially be part of the biggest conspiracy in the world
[21:10] <natrium42> man bear pig!
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[21:20] <SpeedEvil> IMO - Gore - in his role as a booster for the internet may actually have more impact.
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> In that the internet - IMO - only 'won' by a very narrow margin
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> If compuserve/AOL/... had gotten inter-provider email working, then the internet may not have grown nearly as fast
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> And once you've gotten a certain fraction of the eyeballs, the exponential factor for growth may kick in on the side of AOL/compuserve/...
[21:30] <sbasuita> Nobel prize for torvalds?
[21:30] <sbasuita> Nah
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[21:31] <sbasuita> Surely you'd give it to Stallman if you were going for the foss community
[21:31] Nick change: grummund_ -> grummund
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure stallman would have had much impact if not for torvalds.
[21:31] <sbasuita> and vice versa
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> Umm.
[21:32] <sbasuita> " Outstanding contributions in Physics, Chemistry, Literature, Peace, and Physiology or Medicine."
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> There was some non-gnu code around even at that early time.
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> It would have been considerably harder to make a usable system though.
[21:33] <sbasuita> Where does Torvalds fit into those categories?
[21:33] <sbasuita> It would have to be for peace
[21:33] <sbasuita> at a massive stretch
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> Medicine.
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> Destressing millions of people that don't have to use windows anymore.
[21:33] <DanielRichman> ping AlexBreton: incoming skype transfer avec. pictures
[21:35] <sbasuita> You would effectively be giving Torvalds a prize for leading the writing of the linux kernel, which is nice. But then what about the whole GNU userland, as well as all our big apps like GNOME, KDE, etc etc
[21:35] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, just upload them somewhere
[21:35] <natrium42> sbasuita: nobel peace prize != nobel prize
[21:35] <DanielRichman> the guy who wrote KDE got a huge german honour, i think
[21:35] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, quit faffing with your up bandwidth
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> xfree86
[21:37] <sbasuita> natrium42, sorry?
[21:38] <natrium42> torvalds is nominated for the *peace* prize
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[21:39] <natrium42> "Nobel Peace Prize is given out to contributors who worked for the betterment of the society by bringing more harmony."
[21:39] <natrium42> no science contributions required :)
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: Clearly the Beegees should win then.
[21:39] <sbasuita> natrium42, yes, but what I was saying was that compared to a lot of other people, he hasn't done a huge amount of work directly for peace
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> Well - Obama hadn't either.
[21:41] <natrium42> linus has done more than obama :P
[21:42] <sbasuita> Ok now that's just nonsensical
[21:42] <natrium42> not really, but this is --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/25643444@N08/2407543136/sizes/l
[21:43] <sbasuita> natrium42, you scare me
[21:43] <natrium42> XD
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[21:58] <DanielRichman> !!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://alienproject.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/construction-of-a-payload/
[21:58] <DanielRichman> Not much prose there; AlexBreton will probably add some more text later. But there is 12 juicy photos!
[21:58] <DanielRichman> ping sbasuita, AlexBreton
[21:59] <Randomskk> looks cool
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[22:01] <AlexBreton> ok
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[22:02] <DanielRichman> ping natrium42 ^^
[22:02] <natrium42> FINALLY
[22:04] <AlexBreton> the CF card already has 1 person watching
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[22:06] <natrium42> DanielRichman: are you going to take video too?
[22:06] <DanielRichman> natrium42, I don't know. It's still a possibility, since chdk lets us do anything, pretty much. Would it be worth it?
[22:07] <DanielRichman> just a lot of air wooshing and spinning around
[22:07] <DanielRichman> i suppose just after take off would be interesting but that's about it
[22:07] <Randomskk> video is always pretty neat
[22:07] <natrium42> there's less spin towards the highest point
[22:07] <Randomskk> a video as it takes off would be cool, especially in the first minute or two where it goes from "people holding me" to "I can see most of the county"
[22:08] <natrium42> maybe you can program it to take a video at about that time point
[22:11] <rjharrison> DanielRichman nice pics
[22:11] <AlexBreton> yes
[22:11] <AlexBreton> got some text on there
[22:11] <AlexBreton> tag it up ;-)
[22:11] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, already have
[22:11] <AlexBreton> duct tape and gaffer tape need to be tags
[22:11] <AlexBreton> are they?
[22:11] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, sigh. You add them then
[22:12] <DanielRichman> Could have it take like 10 minutes of video at take off then pictures the rest of the flight
[22:12] <rjharrison> apogee is worth having on video too
[22:13] <rjharrison> I'll let figure how to do that :)
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[22:17] <AlexBreton> k
[22:19] <DanielRichman> Cy'all tomorrow
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[22:27] <juxta> AlexBreton: good to see the payload coming together :D
[22:30] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, that payload is looking sick
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[22:44] <AlexBreton> thanks
[22:44] <AlexBreton> ik
[22:44] <AlexBreton> daniel's work too
[22:48] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, let's be fair: if it weren't for me destroying the inital mess, you guys would have stuck with the almost-cuboid pva mess ;P
[22:51] <sbasuita> Time for some portishead
[22:59] <AlexBreton> no
[23:01] <AlexBreton> btw
[23:01] <AlexBreton> has anyone thought of using automatic chemical handwarmers to keep the payload warm?
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[23:18] <RocketBoy> AlexBreton: chemical handwarmers yes - automatic ones no (well not me anyway) - do they regulate the chemical reaction?
[23:22] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[23:22] <RocketBoy> hey
[23:23] <RocketBoy> how did it go
[23:23] <RocketBoy> ?
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[00:00] --- Mon Nov 23 2009