highaltitude.log.20091119

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[00:07] <MikeMc> lol - http://i.imgur.com/tpELY.jpg
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[06:59] <juxta> hi all
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[08:22] <jonsowman> morning all
[08:58] <rjharrison_> hey jonsowman
[08:58] <rjharrison_> Hi
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[09:44] <juxta> hey rjharrison
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[10:19] <Laurenceb> hi jcoxon
[10:19] <Laurenceb> did you get the photodiode working?
[10:19] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[10:19] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:19] <jcoxon> well it definitely varied between shining a light on it and ambient
[10:19] <jcoxon> i do have a question though
[10:20] <jcoxon> why the 1.65v?
[10:20] <Laurenceb> half of 3.3v
[10:21] <jcoxon> but why?
[10:21] <jcoxon> i've been reading up on opamps and i understand we have a + rail and a - rail
[10:21] <Laurenceb> yes, 0 and 3.3v
[10:21] <jcoxon> in this case the rails are 3.3v and gnd
[10:22] <jcoxon> and hte photodiode produces its own voltage
[10:22] <Laurenceb> no
[10:22] <Laurenceb> 3.3v = + 0v = -
[10:22] <Laurenceb> you need an "analogue gnd"
[10:24] <Laurenceb> thats at 1.65v
[10:24] <jcoxon> oh right
[10:24] <jcoxon> so by providing 1.65 that makes '0v' the same as -1.65
[10:25] <jcoxon> as in you are shifting gnd to inbetween 3.3v and 0v
[10:25] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:25] <Laurenceb> all voltages are relative
[10:26] <jcoxon> so looking at hte opamp we have Vdd and Vss
[10:26] <jcoxon> Vdd should be 3.3 and Vss 0
[10:27] <jcoxon> Vin+ is from the diode and Vin- is the 1.65v supply
[10:27] <Laurenceb> surely the other way around
[10:27] <Laurenceb> Vin- is from the diode and Vin+ is the 1.65v supply?
[10:27] <jcoxon> oh right
[10:28] <jcoxon> oops mixed up my inverting/non-inverting
[10:28] <jcoxon> it now makes sense
[10:29] Action: jcoxon is not a work as he feels rubbish after his swineflu vaccination
[10:30] <Laurenceb> hope its safe :-/
[10:31] <jcoxon> its doesn't seem uncommon for people to feel a bit rough the next day
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> Yeah. Other side-effects are turning green, and bursting out of your shirt when angry. So wear something stretchy that won't clash.
[10:31] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, okay well i'm glad i've got my head round the circuit
[10:32] <jcoxon> i'll rig it up in the ballast tank this afternoon with the led
[10:32] <jcoxon> and then we can start running some tests
[10:33] <Laurenceb> ok cool
[10:34] <jcoxon> i've managed to get all the jobs left for this payload onto a list - it means that we are getting close to finishing :-p
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[10:35] <Laurenceb> I'll get some sim code done
[10:35] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
[10:35] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, sim code for which element?
[10:36] <Laurenceb> the buoyancy
[10:36] <jcoxon> oh right - in regards to a latex floater of a zero pressure
[10:36] <jcoxon> or*
[10:38] <Laurenceb> zero pressure
[10:40] <jcoxon> oh okay
[10:40] <jcoxon> great
[10:40] <jcoxon> hmmm its perhaps us having another meeting
[10:41] <jcoxon> will email around again
[11:21] <RocketBoy|Away> The latest installment of Pudsey at the edge of space is up on the CIN website :- http://www.bbc.co.uk/pudsey/ontv/#other_video_225
[11:23] <Laurenceb> you look tired
[11:23] <RocketBoy|Away> I always look like that
[11:24] Nick change: RocketBoy|Away -> RocketBoy
[11:24] <Laurenceb> two balloons ?
[11:24] <RocketBoy> just old
[11:24] <Laurenceb> heh :P
[11:24] <RocketBoy> that was the same day that rjharrison launched - at the same time
[11:25] <RocketBoy> I have some nice pictures of that - I'll be sharing soon (after tomorrow)
[11:25] <Laurenceb> 1:30 theres a second pudsey on the ground?
[11:26] <RocketBoy> hang on I'll look
[11:27] <grummund> Hi all, i'm tring to get a SiRF III module to switch to NMEA output, is there anyone here familiar with that protocol and able to help pls?
[11:27] <Laurenceb> oh ok its just the way they edited it?
[11:27] Action: Laurenceb hasnt used SIRF3
[11:28] <Laurenceb> it has an altitude limit
[11:29] <RocketBoy> its the same pudsey - the only other one I have hasn't got a space suit
[11:29] <RocketBoy> yeah - its just a shot over my sholder
[11:29] <grummund> fwiw, here's the message exchange - http://pastebin.org/55146
[11:31] <grummund> but no point looking at that link unless you're familiar with SiRF III
[11:31] Action: grummund wasn't aware it had an altitude limit...
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[12:08] <Laurenceb> most of us use lassen iq or ublox
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[12:34] <Laurenceb> wonder how hard it is to make a scintillation spectrometer
[12:34] <Laurenceb> using a photodiode and some scintillator
[12:44] <Laurenceb> itd be interesting to make a pocket device to track and identify radioisotpe exposure
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[13:14] <Laurenceb> anyone here used windows mobile?
[13:15] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to get youtube to work
[13:19] <jcoxon> hehe, searching for the nearest wickes so i can get some polystyrene sheet
[13:19] <jcoxon> then nearest shop boasts "Burger Van on-site"
[13:23] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:24] <Laurenceb> I'd get some solid stuff
[13:25] <jcoxon> was just going to get some sheets and hotwire cut it to make a box
[13:27] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:31] <rjharrison_> hey all
[13:31] <Laurenceb> hi
[13:37] <rjharrison_> SIRF3's have alt. limits?
[13:37] <rjharrison_> Oops sorry scrolling
[13:38] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy nice video
[13:38] <rjharrison_> Sorry about balloon in the way :)
[13:38] <jcoxon> rjharrison_, they don't have an alt limit but break at 24km alt
[13:39] <rjharrison_> Sounds even worse
[13:39] <rjharrison_> do they need to be rebooted at that point?
[13:39] <jcoxon> some do
[13:39] <rjharrison_> A quiet day to day
[13:48] <Laurenceb> RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[13:49] Action: Laurenceb sets off some fireworks
[14:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.arcaspace.ro/
[14:18] <Laurenceb> what do you know they "postponed" it
[14:22] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, nearly setup
[14:22] <Laurenceb> cool
[14:22] <RocketBoy> sounds like starchaser all over again
[14:23] <Laurenceb> starchaser are that bad?
[14:23] <Laurenceb> well I guess they havent made anything
[14:23] <Laurenceb> in a long time
[14:24] <Laurenceb> but I would be interested in their nova rocket - they came up with a way to modify high power rocketry reloads AIUI
[14:26] <RocketBoy> bbl
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[14:26] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: cool
[14:27] <Laurenceb> are you fitting it in a tube?
[14:27] <Laurenceb> photos?
[14:29] <jcoxon> in a bit
[14:29] <Laurenceb> :D
[15:00] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: LED at the bottom?
[15:01] <jcoxon> yup
[15:01] <jcoxon> hmmm its not working
[15:02] <jcoxon> i think i've messed up the circuit
[15:04] <Laurenceb> have you built it on stripboard?
[15:05] <jcoxon> no breadboard still
[15:06] <jcoxon> okay so i've got the led flashing and the adc being read each time
[15:06] <jcoxon> but the numbers are really random
[15:07] <jcoxon> either 0 or 682 but not corresponding to On or Off
[15:07] <Laurenceb> try reading with a multimeter
[15:08] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, what you've explained to me doesn't really match whats discussed on the webpage
[15:09] <jcoxon> oh wait i'm miss reading it again
[15:09] <jcoxon> so teh diode should be connected between Vin- and 1.65 (ground potential)
[15:10] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:10] <Laurenceb> do you have a capacitor across the feedback resistor?
[15:11] <jcoxon> yes
[15:11] <Laurenceb> how big?
[15:11] <jcoxon> with the feedback resistor and capcitor i get 0 as my reading
[15:11] <jcoxon> 22pf
[15:12] <Laurenceb> might be worth going larger
[15:12] <Laurenceb> maybe too much ambient light
[15:13] <jcoxon> what should the resistor be?
[15:14] <Laurenceb> 82K wasnt it?
[15:15] <jcoxon> oh i've got 82ohms
[15:15] <Laurenceb> doh
[15:15] <Laurenceb> :P
[15:19] <jcoxon> hmmmm still 0
[15:20] <Laurenceb> probably too much light
[15:20] <Laurenceb> hmm no
[15:21] <Laurenceb> 82 ohms it should have been 1.65v
[15:21] <Laurenceb> whats the voltage at -ive input?
[15:21] <Laurenceb> is the +ive input tied to 1.65V ?
[15:22] <Laurenceb> something is wrong
[15:23] <jcoxon> vin- is tied to 1.65
[15:23] <jcoxon> oops
[15:24] <jcoxon> vin+ is tied to 1.65
[15:24] <jcoxon> shall i go through my setup?
[15:24] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:24] <jcoxon> the diode is connected to 1.65 and Vin-
[15:25] <jcoxon> Vin+ is tied to 1.65
[15:25] <jcoxon> Vss is 0v, Vdd is 3.3v
[15:25] <jcoxon> there is a 82ohm resistor from Vin- to Vout
[15:25] <Laurenceb> 82K
[15:26] <jcoxon> and a capacitor as well across there
[15:26] <Laurenceb> yes that sounds ok
[15:26] <jcoxon> but
[15:27] <jcoxon> when i have it all setup my voltage divider to make 1.65 is actually 0
[15:27] <Laurenceb> eek
[15:27] <Laurenceb> whats connected to the voltage divider output?
[15:28] <jcoxon> Vin+ and the diode
[15:28] <Laurenceb> if you disconnect Vin and the diode you have 1.65V ?
[15:28] <Laurenceb> do you have the 82K fitted?
[15:29] <jcoxon> if i disconnect vin then i get 1.65
[15:30] <Laurenceb> this doesnt sound good
[15:30] <Laurenceb> what size caps do you have?
[15:30] <Laurenceb> are you sure you read the pinout correctly?
[15:30] <jcoxon> i'll start again
[15:30] <jcoxon> and re do it
[15:31] <Laurenceb> what size resistors do you have on the divider?
[15:32] <jcoxon> 2x 8k2
[15:32] <Laurenceb> sounds sane
[15:34] <jcoxon> is 82k vital
[15:34] <jcoxon> i have 100k and 47k s
[15:35] <Laurenceb> you could use 100 yes
[15:38] <jcoxon> is there a test circuit i could build to test the opamp?
[15:38] <Laurenceb> ask on #electronics
[15:40] <Laurenceb> try tying the inputs to 3.3v and 0v through 1K or so resistors
[15:40] <Laurenceb> and seeing what the output does
[15:40] <jcoxon> right
[15:41] <jcoxon> i've re-rigged it
[15:41] <jcoxon> and if i tie vin+ to gnd then i get some suitable varience
[15:42] <Laurenceb> ah
[15:42] <Laurenceb> is ths on breadboard?
[15:42] <jcoxon> yes
[15:42] <Laurenceb> I see
[15:43] <jcoxon> so now i'll go back to the 1.65
[15:45] <Laurenceb> brb
[15:54] <Laurenceb> back
[15:58] <jcoxon> okay right now i'm getting a really small difference
[15:59] <jcoxon> between 320 and 330 depending on if i block ambient light out or not
[15:59] <jcoxon> when the photodiode is on the breadboard
[16:02] <Laurenceb> ok
[16:02] <Laurenceb> maybe increase the size of the feedback resistor
[16:03] <Laurenceb> but the difference shouldnt be huge - theres an IR filter on the diode
[16:04] <Laurenceb> do you have an IR LED?
[16:12] <jcoxon> yup
[16:16] <Laurenceb> pulse that on/off and find the difference in ADC
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[16:43] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: any luck?
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[16:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.theoland.com/media/wire_sculpture_cyber_flora/800/Yellow-Tip-Bird.jpg
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> Clearly the future of HA
[17:00] <rjharrison_> SpeedEvil looks more like the proverbial lead balloon :_)
[17:00] <rjharrison_> It needs some feathers :)_
[17:01] <DanielRichman> it looks like it'd last just as long as a real bird would do at 30k
[17:01] <Randomskk> real birds don't have wireframe feathers though
[17:02] <Randomskk> worse, wireframe wings*
[17:02] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, what i thought was a IR led it doesn't really work but with my red led on the flight computer there is a 250 or so difference
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[18:10] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: sounds good
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[18:11] <Laurenceb> but a IR led would be better
[18:11] <Laurenceb> did you order an IR led with the farnell order?
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[19:00] <MikeMc> evening all
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[19:05] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
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[19:42] <Laurenceb> what are the star headed screwdrivers called?
[19:43] <Randomskk> torque?
[19:44] <Randomskk> torx?
[19:44] <Laurenceb> posidrive or something ?
[19:44] <Randomskk> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Torx_driver_secure.png
[19:44] <Hiena> Is there a hole in the middle?
[19:45] <Laurenceb> ah thats it
[19:45] <Randomskk> http://www.fakeplasticrock.com/wp-content/uploads/lespaul-disassembly-torx-closeup.jpg etc
[19:45] <Laurenceb> yeah thanks
[19:45] <Randomskk> interestingly google images has many people saying torque when apparently the name is torx
[19:45] <Randomskk> easy mistake to make
[19:45] <Hiena> Not mention, many peoples mixing up the torque and the force.
[19:50] <Hiena> Ehehehehe... Telepitem az uj kernelt a szerverre. Feltoltom az eloreforditott kernelt ftpn, be ssh-sok, kicsomagolom, beirom: make modules_install && beep && make install && beep && sleep && beep . Varok, varok, varok... Aztan a leesett, hogy sshn keresztul nem biztos, hogy hallani fogom...
[19:51] <RocketBoy|Away> wot like - may the torque be with you?
[19:57] <Hiena> Worst. They try to apply it, creating "gravity engine"...
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[20:50] <Laurenceb> http://www.gadgetfactory.net/gf/project/avr_core/
[20:51] Action: Laurenceb is very impressed
[20:51] <Randomskk> wow
[20:52] <Laurenceb> how long before FPGA arduino ?
[20:52] <Laurenceb> hmm that would arguably be 100% opensource
[20:52] <Randomskk> www.leaflabs.com are working on something along those lines - Oak
[20:52] <Randomskk> vs Maple which is a 32bit ARM based arduino
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[21:05] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_I
[21:05] <Laurenceb> interesting - very similar to my idea
[21:07] <Laurenceb> - for an n-prize launcher
[21:07] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorer_1
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[21:10] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> glycogen storage fat deficit "restricted calorie" excersize
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> oops
[21:11] <Laurenceb> lulwut
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[21:14] <Laurenceb> "To the surprise of mission experts, satellite Explorer 1 changed rotation axis after launch. The elongated body of the spacecraft had been supposed to spin about its long (least-inertia) axis but refused to do so, and instead started precessing due to energy dissipation from flexible structural elements. Later it was understood that on general grounds, the body ends up in the spin state that minimizes the kinetic rotat
[21:14] <Laurenceb> ional energy (this being the maximal-inertia axis). "
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[21:22] <DanielRichman> ping rjharrison
[21:22] Nick change: zeusbot_ -> zeusbot
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[21:24] <Laurenceb> I guess the IMU must seperate from the first stage and stay with the upper stages whilst the air jets fire
[21:26] <rjharrison> pong DanielRichman
[21:26] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, I was curious as to where your current CHDK script is
[21:28] <rjharrison> Ohh one sec
[21:29] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, more interestingly, how you change the mode of the camera whilst flying
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: or maybe no ImU on upper stage?
[21:29] <Laurenceb> the upper stages seperated from the first stage
[21:30] <Laurenceb> looks like the first stage just had mechanical gyros
[21:30] <rjharrison> DanielRichman http://www.robertharrison.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=78
[21:30] <rjharrison> DanielRichman how big is your sd card
[21:30] <Laurenceb> so I'm guessing they stayed with the upper stages to control the rotation to horizontal
[21:30] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, currently 2gb though we will get a big un'
[21:30] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:30] <Laurenceb> then they fired the solids from the ground via radio
[21:30] <rjharrison> A bigun needs to be partitioned
[21:31] <Laurenceb> http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:fuiZxcAi5joJ:www.aiaa.org/Aerospace/images/articleimages/pdf/VIEW%2520FROM%2520HERE_Jan2008.pdf+jupiter-c+radio+guidance&cd=16&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: sounds plausible.
[21:31] <rjharrison> DanielRichman read the bottom half and follow the insteructions
[21:31] <Randomskk> rjharrison: does it?
[21:31] <rjharrison> instructions even
[21:31] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, i've got it working already
[21:31] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, though I am very interested in your scripts
[21:31] <Laurenceb> "Von Braun had given Stuhlinger the job of developing a primitive computer to calculate the precise moment for ignition of the upper stage"
[21:31] <Laurenceb> sounds like the doppler fitting technique I was thinking of
[21:32] <rjharrison> DanielRichman they are in the gz file I think
[21:32] <DanielRichman> great, thanks
[21:32] <rjharrison> one sec
[21:32] <Laurenceb> so the first stage was just flying under an attitude/time program
[21:32] <rjharrison> do you want the loop every 5 mins script
[21:33] <rjharrison> or usb trigger script?
[21:33] <Laurenceb> then the compressed air jets were used to make a predefined attitude manover after seperation, and the solids ignited by radio
[21:33] <Laurenceb> its almost the same idea, but makes use of decent mechanical gyros we dont have
[21:33] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, will be looping, no usb triggering here
[21:33] <rjharrison> ok I'll paste it in a sec
[21:34] <Laurenceb> still its amazing that almost exactly the same idea was devised so long ago
[21:37] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, I've found it in your tarball
[21:37] rharrison_eee (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[21:37] <rharrison_eee> http://pastebin.com/m13bfa3f3
[21:38] <rjharrison> This is the latest
[21:38] <rjharrison> not sure if it's the same
[21:38] <rjharrison> shuold be
[21:39] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGM-11_Redstone
[21:40] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, looks correct. and where do you set the mode wheel before flying?
[21:40] <Laurenceb> sounds like they took a standard Redstone and replaced the warhead with the spun solids
[21:40] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, also.. what is the "ISO" setting on the camera?
[21:40] <Laurenceb> also they removed some of the guidance so it was gyros only - the jupiter-c article mentions the avonics were simplified
[21:41] <rharrison_eee> http://pastebin.com/d49d60dd1
[21:41] <rharrison_eee> This is the USB trigger one
[21:42] <DanielRichman> ahh, the shoot_movie_for b
[21:42] <DanielRichman> looks much easier than messing around pressing mode keys in software
[21:43] <rjharrison> iso auto
[21:43] <rjharrison> Super fine
[21:43] <rjharrison> Large
[21:44] <rjharrison> make sure you set for display to turn off asap
[21:44] <DanielRichman> rharrison_eee, did you bother at all with RAW images?
[21:44] <rjharrison> no
[21:44] <Laurenceb> gtg
[21:44] <DanielRichman> pressing the DISP key turns it off entirely
[21:44] <rjharrison> Yep I tend to have it on during video / pics for heat
[21:45] <rjharrison> + it will last 10 hours on lips
[21:45] <rjharrison> lipos
[21:45] <rjharrison> well untill 16gb runs out
[21:46] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, did you consider taking images in RAW mode?
[21:46] <rjharrison> Yep but I never have it depends on how much post processing you want to do
[21:46] <rjharrison> I really aim to fill the sd card with images rather than raw
[21:46] <DanielRichman> hmm, ok
[21:46] <rjharrison> but it's up to you
[21:47] <rjharrison> I shoot raw on my D-SLR some times but to be honnest I have never really messed with the raws that much
[21:49] <Randomskk> raw is great for when conditions were crap, since you can recover detail from overblown or underexposed sections much better than from a jpg
[21:49] <Randomskk> s/were/are
[21:49] <rharrison_eee> Yep
[21:49] <rharrison_eee> hehe
[21:49] <Randomskk> but the extra effort makes it hardly worth it for most of the time
[21:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, aren't raws massive?
[21:50] <Randomskk> a bit bigger
[21:50] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, but they're tastey! raw CCD data
[21:50] <Randomskk> well okay a lot biger
[21:50] <rharrison_eee> I want to try a blue filter on the next launch
[21:50] <DanielRichman> about a 8x file size markup
[21:50] <Randomskk> I can get something like 500 raws on my SD card on my camera
[21:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, allow it just save jpeg
[21:50] <DanielRichman> make that 6x, sbasuita
[21:50] <Randomskk> or something like two thousand or more JPGs, full size and quality
[21:50] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, but RAWs are much um... better?
[21:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, or not
[21:50] <Randomskk> over 9999 medium size jpgs, lol
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Look carefully at all pics from previous missions.
[21:51] <rharrison_eee> Given the 4 hours flight duration I'm sure you could shoot some raw
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> In almost no cases that I've seen do you actually get resolution close to the limits of the camera.
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> Due to atmospheric blur.
[21:52] <rharrison_eee> seeing
[21:52] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what post-processing do you want to do that requires raw?
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> (The almost was the case where it was sitting in a field)
[21:52] <rharrison_eee> hehe
[21:52] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, may as well
[21:52] <DanielRichman> jpeg is lossy y'know
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> So raw at somewhat lower resolution might be worthwhile due to the better range
[21:53] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: though stuff like a UV filter can help cut down on haze
[21:53] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yes but it looks fine
[21:53] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, may as well shoot one or two
[21:53] <Randomskk> send an hd video camera up
[21:53] <Randomskk> keep it recording the whole time
[21:53] <DanielRichman> could turn out to be really high-Q
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: yes. But you're still looking through a lot of air.
[21:53] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: true
[21:53] <sbasuita> Randomskk, that's what the BBC did with the pudsey launch
[21:53] <rharrison_eee> DanielRichman: You can always take some more on the next launch :)
[21:53] <Randomskk> have it looking straight down and replay at high speed, it'd be like the powers of ten zooming out thing
[21:53] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you won't tell the difference
[21:53] <Randomskk> except only for one or two powers :P
[21:53] Action: DanielRichman orders imagemagick to convert his CRWs
[21:53] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i use FLAC. I'm a freak like that. We'll shoot some RAW
[21:54] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, flac is compressed
[21:54] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, but lossless
[21:54] <rharrison_eee> which is fine
[21:54] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yeh but still compressed. whilst raw is uber beastly
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[21:54] <Randomskk> sbasuita: you can actually get compressed raw
[21:55] <sbasuita> I still don't see the point over jpeg
[21:55] <Randomskk> loads more data
[21:55] <Randomskk> stuff that looks whited out and overexposed in the image can actually have recoverable data, etc
[21:55] <Randomskk> you can usually get +/- 2ev worth of change, sometimes more
[21:55] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, but if you use jpeg you're relying on the camera to tune your colour settings etc. for you
[21:55] <DanielRichman> at 30k...?
[21:55] <Randomskk> white point is another big reason to go for raw
[21:55] <rjharrison> sbasuita, DanielRichman has a point just I'm not sure it's was worth loosing the disk space before
[21:56] <rjharrison> 16GB will be more than enough though
[21:56] <Randomskk> so just use an 8gb sd or such
[21:56] <Randomskk> or 16
[21:56] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you got any big sd cards?
[21:56] <DanielRichman> just take 1 raw every 20 normals
[21:56] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, Alex is flogging the CF to get a SD
[21:56] <rjharrison> I wouldn't send less than 16
[21:57] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, is that really nessecary? How many raws fit on the 2gb?
[21:57] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, about 180
[21:57] <DanielRichman> what 2gb?
[21:57] <rjharrison> Video too
[21:57] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it came with 2gb right?
[21:57] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it did!?
[21:57] <sbasuita> I'm just thinking that we don't acually need to be shooting more than once a minute
[21:57] <rjharrison> Most launches I do on 16gb use 14gb of available data
[21:57] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, oh yes! it did!
[21:58] <sbasuita> like isn't every 15 seconds excessive?
[21:58] <DanielRichman> no wait
[21:58] <DanielRichman> it came with a 128mb one
[21:58] <rjharrison> Video?
[21:58] <sbasuita> ;P
[21:58] <sbasuita> Might as well do a bit of video I guess
[21:58] <DanielRichman> yes
[21:58] <DanielRichman> that was my second request after RAWs
[21:58] <rjharrison> 2min video = 250MB
[21:58] <sbasuita> =/
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> 8G is only 15 quiddish
[21:59] <rjharrison> 16gb is only 22.49
[21:59] <Randomskk> memory is so cheap these days
[21:59] <sbasuita> I might have a big sd card lying around
[21:59] <rjharrison> DanielRichman I'll lend you a 16 if you like for the mission
[21:59] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, don't worry about it
[21:59] <rjharrison> OK
[21:59] <DanielRichman> I'd rather it didn't go into the drink
[22:00] <rjharrison> Not a problem when you're the IT director
[22:00] <rjharrison> I have a few in the draw at work
[22:00] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:00] <AlexBreton> hello
[22:00] <rjharrison> If you lost it I wouldn't expect you to return it
[22:00] <Randomskk> lol
[22:00] <AlexBreton> sbasuita, what dost thou want?
[22:01] <rjharrison> olo
[22:01] Action: Randomskk imagines rjharrison demanding DanielRichman goes scuba diving
[22:01] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, need to sort out what combination of video/images we're shooting
[22:01] <rjharrison> lol even
[22:01] <AlexBreton> what is this regarding rjharrison?
[22:01] <AlexBreton> fill me in
[22:01] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, rjharrison is offering to lend a 16gb sd card for the launch
[22:01] <AlexBreton> oh great
[22:01] <AlexBreton> we don't need to buy one then
[22:01] <AlexBreton> thank you very much
[22:01] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, brb i'm going to check if i have a big one
[22:02] <sbasuita> ...
[22:02] <AlexBreton> th`at
[22:02] <sbasuita> inb4 stupid jokes
[22:02] <AlexBreton> yeah
[22:02] <AlexBreton> I was about to pull it ;-)
[22:02] <rjharrison> is that legal
[22:03] <AlexBreton> lol
[22:03] <sbasuita> Looks like my dad has taken our camera to california - presumably the one containing our bigass sd card ;P
[22:03] Laurenceb (n=laurence@hosts-137-205-164-66.phys.warwick.ac.uk) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
[22:03] <rjharrison> DanielRichman do you want me to send to you or who?
[22:03] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, you'd best talk to AlexBreton
[22:03] <DanielRichman> he deals with this kind of thing
[22:03] <sbasuita> What about camera settings?
[22:03] <rjharrison> AlexBreton where do you want the card sending
[22:03] <sbasuita> Can you set that with CHDK?
[22:04] <sbasuita> Like focus, shutter speed, aperture etc etc etc
[22:04] <sbasuita> I don't know much about it
[22:04] <DanielRichman> as far as i can see
[22:04] <rjharrison> Oh let the camera do it's stuff on manual
[22:04] <DanielRichman> it gives you some nice functions, "shoot" and "shoot_video..."
[22:04] <sbasuita> you mean auto?
[22:04] <rjharrison> It's basically like auto on an SLR
[22:04] <DanielRichman> which do auto
[22:04] <sbasuita> hmm ok
[22:04] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, for everything else there's the "click" command
[22:04] <rjharrison> manual!
[22:04] <DanielRichman> which lets you simulat button presses
[22:05] <DanielRichman> if you put it into manual mode, then call the shoot command in yer scriptz it takes a photo under those settings
[22:05] <rjharrison> manual no flash, superfine, large, ISO auto
[22:05] <sbasuita> So assuming we have 16gb of space kindly lent by rjharrison, how are we goiing to use that?
[22:05] <DanielRichman> right well
[22:05] <sbasuita> assume 3hr flight
[22:05] <sbasuita> + 1 hour setup
[22:05] <DanielRichman> a superfine large (7.1MP) image is 1.5MB
[22:05] <sbasuita> raw?
[22:05] <rjharrison> 2min video 8 pics sleep for 3 mins loop
[22:06] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, raw comes in at 8MB
[22:06] <rjharrison> Just an idea
[22:06] <sbasuita> rjharrison, do you have the same camera as us/
[22:06] <rjharrison> Some hints ... Take a few in sucession for stitching together
[22:06] <rjharrison> Good for panoramic shots
[22:06] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, out of interested, what is "ISO"
[22:06] <sbasuita> <3 panoramic
[22:07] <rjharrison> ISO is the sensitivity to light
[22:07] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, ah, ok
[22:07] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i'm going to decommission your IRC robot
[22:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, nah
[22:07] <rjharrison> High ISO 1600 is very sensitive but you get lots of noise
[22:07] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it _doesn't work_
[22:07] <DanielRichman> randomly leaves
[22:08] <sbasuita> I don't think we need much sensitivity - the earth is super bright
[22:08] <natrium42> so... when is launch?
[22:08] <rjharrison> ISO AUTO is fine
[22:08] <rjharrison> Let the camera do the work
[22:08] <sbasuita> Put everything on auto?
[22:08] <DanielRichman> manual mode or auto mode?
[22:08] <rjharrison> Yep but no flash
[22:08] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what are the available settigns? let's go through them
[22:08] <rjharrison> and set the dial to manual
[22:08] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, there arn't many
[22:09] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, good let's get started ;)
[22:09] <DanielRichman> OK: In Auto Mode:
[22:09] <rjharrison> Do some testing too
[22:09] <rjharrison> AlexBreton either email me or pm me an address
[22:09] <DanielRichman> Flash, Macro enable/disable, ISO, Fine-ness (super), and size (no. of pixels)
[22:09] <DanielRichman> In Manual Mode:
[22:10] <sbasuita> rjharrison, I think he's away
[22:10] <sbasuita> rjharrison, just send it to daniel
[22:10] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc:
[22:10] <sbasuita> ; P
[22:10] <rjharrison> Ok just need an address
[22:10] <rjharrison> I assume DanielRichman has the camera
[22:10] <sbasuita> rjharrison, yes
[22:10] <DanielRichman> All of the above *PLUS*: Exposure, some light-colour settings (eg daylight, cloudy day...), "my colours" adjustments, ISO detect area (ie spot middle, average of whole photo)
[22:11] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, got all that?
[22:11] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, ok then
[22:11] <sbasuita> flash off
[22:11] <rjharrison> DanielRichman set those all on auto
[22:11] <sbasuita> iso auto
[22:11] <sbasuita> fine-ness is highest
[22:11] <rjharrison> yep
[22:11] <sbasuita> size?
[22:11] <rjharrison> superfine and large
[22:11] <sbasuita> ok
[22:11] <sbasuita> exposure
[22:11] <sbasuita> auto?
[22:11] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, if they're all on auto we may as well use AUTO mode?
[22:11] <rjharrison> Flash off
[22:12] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we want manual man
[22:12] <rjharrison> I think you need manual for that
[22:12] <DanielRichman> Video Mode: 30 or 15 FPS; 640x480 or 320x240
[22:12] <DanielRichman> No, you can turn flash off in auto
[22:12] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 30 fps
[22:12] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 640
[22:12] <rjharrison> oh
[22:12] <rjharrison> humm
[22:12] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we want to set iso detect area to avg
[22:13] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what are 'light-colour' settings?
[22:13] <DanielRichman> white balance
[22:13] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, auto?
[22:13] <DanielRichman> yes
[22:13] <DanielRichman> AWB
[22:13] <sbasuita> ?
[22:13] <DanielRichman> Auto White Balance
[22:14] <sbasuita> k
[22:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, can you set iso detect area in auto?
[22:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it's on average of whole shot in auto
[22:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, good
[22:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so we saving jpeg?
[22:14] <rjharrison> DanielRichman send me an email when you guys work out where you want it sent to
[22:15] <rjharrison> I'm going to head off in a bit
[22:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, pm rjharrison your address man
[22:15] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, oh right; sorry. I'll send an email
[22:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, could just give out breton's address :P
[22:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, now, what about ordering parachute and balloon
[22:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, go talk to breton; I don't deal with this stuff
[22:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we pretty much know the wieght of the payload
[22:15] <DanielRichman> i'm just bashing bytes together
[22:16] <DanielRichman> i can um weigh it if you want
[22:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yes
[22:16] <DanielRichman> ok brb
[22:19] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, 460 grams, not including TX antenna or Polystyrene or UV filter or Ropes
[22:21] <rjharrison> nights
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[22:24] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, how much does the uv filter weigh?
[22:25] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, pass.
[22:25] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we need to talk to RocketBoy|Away sometime
[22:26] <RocketBoy|Away> yo yo
[22:26] Nick change: RocketBoy|Away -> RocketBoy
[22:28] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, hello
[22:28] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, I heard you are the balloon/chute guy?
[22:29] <RocketBoy> sure I sell them
[22:29] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, what size do you reckon we need?
[22:29] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, bearing in mind DanielRichman's weight statement above?
[22:29] <RocketBoy> what weight is your payload
[22:29] <RocketBoy> just looking
[22:29] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, "460 grams, not including TX antenna or Polystyrene or UV filter or Ropes"
[22:30] <RocketBoy> so lets say 600g to be on the safe side
[22:30] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, okk
[22:30] <RocketBoy> I'll do some calcs
[22:30] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, thanks
[22:30] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, we're going for a standard 30km launch
[22:32] <RocketBoy> so a 24" chute is probably ideal or an 18" will do at a pinch
[22:33] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, ok, don't want to take risks so I think we'd go for the 24 inch
[22:35] <RocketBoy> so a 800g balloon should get you to 30Km - with 4
[22:35] <RocketBoy> with 2.5cum of helium
[22:36] <RocketBoy> I'll have to check stock
[22:37] <RocketBoy> a 500 would get you to 26Km - 1.8cm helium
[22:38] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, so, video/image streak settings?
[22:39] <RocketBoy> a 1200 would get you to 35Km - 2.5cu m helium
[22:39] <RocketBoy> (these figures are rough guides)
[22:41] <RocketBoy> rough prices are on randomsolutions.co.uk
[22:41] <RocketBoy> I haven't updates the
[22:42] <RocketBoy> updated the availability lately
[22:43] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:44] <AlexBreton> good evening
[22:44] <RocketBoy> so drop me a line steve @ randomsolutions . co . uk
[22:44] <AlexBreton> does someone need my address?
[22:45] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc: Client Quit
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[22:57] <RocketBoy> oh yeah and a discount to UKHAS members
[22:58] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, cool thanks :)
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[23:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, want to build the payload tomorrow?
[23:16] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, can't tomorrow
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[23:31] <MikeMc> Howdy
[23:45] <natrium42> hi MikeMc
[23:45] <MikeMc> hey
[23:45] <natrium42> sup?
[23:46] <MikeMc> wtf.... http://media.peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/573.jpg
[23:53] <RocketBoy> nights
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[00:00] --- Fri Nov 20 2009