highaltitude.log.20091116

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[07:36] <jcoxon> wow i'm an idiot some times
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[08:20] <rjharrison_> Morning jcoxon
[08:20] <rjharrison_> Day off?
[08:21] <jcoxon> i have a seminar at 10.30 but apart from that yes
[08:21] <rjharrison_> Sounds good
[08:21] <jcoxon> though i'm going to have to do some non-balloon work this afternoon
[08:21] <jcoxon> ballasthalo is slightly taking over my life
[08:21] <rjharrison_> Yep I find had does that for a while
[08:22] <rjharrison_> I'm glad I have go 869MHz working so easily
[08:22] <rjharrison_> go=got
[08:22] <jcoxon> yeah, its nice when the code is already in place
[08:23] <rjharrison_> It's only 20 lines of code
[08:23] <rjharrison_> Not the end of the world :)
[08:24] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:24] <jcoxon> i spent about 2 hours last night debugging a problem and then found out this morning that actually my test system was the issue
[08:24] <rjharrison_> lol
[08:24] <rjharrison_> It's a pain sometimes
[08:26] <jcoxon> oh well
[08:26] <jcoxon> should get some parts today
[08:27] <jcoxon> though they'll probably deliver during hte 2 hours i'm out
[08:27] <rjharrison_> I'll post out he HFL conector
[08:29] <jcoxon> thanks
[08:30] <jcoxon> i really want this flight to work :-S
[08:33] <rjharrison_> Yep it sounds like fun when are you planning to launch?
[08:33] <rjharrison_> You'll have to buy a copy of The Sun tomorrow
[08:33] <jcoxon> ummm asap really
[08:33] <jcoxon> and yeah i will
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[10:25] <rjharrison_> .
[10:40] <rjharrison_> Big day for The Icarus Project tomorrow. Should be the frontpage of The Sun newspaper
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> 'Home grown terrorists exposed!'
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[11:12] <rjharrison_> lol
[11:12] <rjharrison_> The 869Mhz yagi arrive today :)
[11:13] <rjharrison_> arrived
[11:38] <rjharrison_> http://www.itnewsonline.com/showrwstory.php?storyid=1709
[11:38] <rjharrison_>
[11:39] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[11:40] <rjharrison_> Weird
[11:40] <rjharrison_> got kicked off
[11:40] <rjharrison_> http://www.itnewsonline.com/showrwstory.php?storyid=1709
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> (11:39:45 AM) rjharrison_ left the room (quit: ).
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> Okaaaaay
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[13:03] <rjharrison_> Hey jcoxon
[13:05] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[13:05] <rjharrison_> jcoxon just go this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320448411196&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
[13:06] <rjharrison_> about 200 quid of rrp
[13:06] <jcoxon> its ended
[13:06] <rjharrison_> To me :)
[13:06] <rjharrison_> Oh can't you view it?
[13:07] <jcoxon> yeah i can
[13:07] <jcoxon> you got it?
[13:07] <rjharrison_> Yep
[13:07] <rjharrison_> 280
[13:07] <rjharrison_> rather than 480 new
[13:07] <jcoxon> wow good work
[13:08] <rjharrison_> Plus it has all modes cw,lsb,usb,am,fm etc...
[13:08] <rjharrison_> Be interesting to see how it performs
[13:09] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:09] <jcoxon> got my first delivery of the day
[13:09] <rjharrison_> Cool
[13:10] <rjharrison_> Whilst you're at home too
[13:10] <rjharrison_> BTW the 869 Yagi arrived this morning
[13:11] <jcoxon> still waiting on two more
[13:14] <jcoxon> need to get me some 3v CR1225 batteries
[13:15] <jcoxon> and a ground plane on that antenna really does help
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[13:26] <rjharrison_> jcoxon ground planes are cool def get one for the next launch
[13:32] <jcoxon> usually i haven't needed an additional gp
[13:35] <rjharrison_> jcoxon but I can listen in from Yorkshire if you put one on :)
[13:37] <jcoxon> oh i mean GPS antenna
[13:37] <jcoxon> not radio antenna
[13:41] <rjharrison_> Oh, I just use the mag mount one admittedly without attaching it to anything magnetic
[13:41] <rjharrison_> Don't you use the internal types
[13:42] <rjharrison_> BTW The Sun newspaper is out tomorrow
[13:42] <rjharrison_> Second plug of the day :)
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[13:42] <russss> I'm not sure I can bring myself to buy the sun, I trust there will be a scan available :)
[13:43] <jcoxon> i've got this
[13:43] <jcoxon> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=178
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[13:44] <rjharrison_> russss there will be
[13:46] <rjharrison_> jcoxon I use the SMA one of these http://www.dpie.com/gps/antenna.html
[13:46] <rjharrison_> And mount externally
[13:47] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:47] <jcoxon> i've got an idea in my head of packaging the GPS + antenna in polystyrene to avoid it getting too cold
[13:53] <rjharrison_> Is this for the long duration stuff?
[13:53] <rjharrison_> Lat time the osc froze out of sync iirc
[13:54] <gordonjcp> you could make an oven
[13:54] <gordonjcp> polystyrene box, thermistor, power tranny and big resistor
[14:03] <rjharrison_> jcoxon you could just warm it up with the above one minute before use given that the power been decipated by the GPS is never going to be enough to keep it warm
[14:10] <gordonjcp> tealight candle and some potassium permanganate
[14:10] <russss> what does that do?
[14:11] <juxta_> thermite, magnesium strips & a rocket igniter
[14:11] <rjharrison_> Nice colour flame :)
[14:11] <russss> heh
[14:12] <russss> you could just use one of those chemical handwarmers, dunno how long they last
[14:12] <jcoxon> russss, i actually think thats quite a good idea
[14:12] <juxta_> I think so too, the MIT guys did that with their $150 launch
[14:12] <jcoxon> if we can maintain a reasonable temp for a bit longer then it'll get colder later in the flight
[14:12] <russss> alternatively the simplest mechanism would surely be a bimetallic thermostat if you could get a small cheap one for the right temperature.
[14:13] <juxta_> you could probably trigger the handwarmers during the flight with a little work
[14:13] <gordonjcp> RS have clickyswitch thermostats in a range of temperatures
[14:13] <juxta_> when the temp dropped low enough
[14:13] <jcoxon> i've got a flight computer rammed with temp sensors :-p
[14:14] <russss> yeah true. Difficult to intuit what the most reliable solution would be
[14:14] <russss> I guess the answer is pick one and try it, heh
[14:14] <jcoxon> yeah, thats teh main issue / challenge with high altitude stuff
[14:15] <jcoxon> perhaps a couple of strategicly placed resistors with their own power supply
[14:16] <juxta_> energy density from batteries is very poor though
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> A bag of hot water
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> hot water -> ice is quite energy dense.
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> not as dense as the best lithium - but a hell of a lot cheaper
[14:17] <russss> heh
[14:17] <jcoxon> warm ballast :-p
[14:17] <russss> yeah I was going to say
[14:17] <russss> surely the best solution is something you could then drop as ballast when it's spent
[14:18] <juxta_> that's a good idea russ
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> that too
[14:18] <juxta_> russss*
[14:18] <jcoxon> russss, don't really want hte ballast freezing :-p
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> A hampster.
[14:18] <russss> some kind of liquid to liquid exothermic reaction
[14:18] <juxta_> I reckon the sodium acetate hand warmers would be excellent if you could trigger them electircally
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> Insulated, thermally regulated (up to 8km or so), ...
[14:18] <russss> with a low freezing point
[14:18] <russss> mix liquid A with liquid B to produce liquid C which you then drop as ballast.
[14:19] <jcoxon> http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=276649
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> Thermite.
[14:19] <jcoxon> we just need to go nuclear
[14:19] <russss> haha true
[14:19] <russss> you could put a piece of uranium ore in there
[14:19] <russss> that's got to have some crazy amazing watts/gram
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> IIRC ~90W/g for the 'best' stuff
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> hydrogen filled balloon, little catalytic burner
[14:20] <russss> and joules/gram in fact
[14:21] <russss> SpeedEvil: a fuel cell ;)
[14:22] <jcoxon> i guess i only really need to keep the gps warm
[14:22] <jcoxon> the atmega168 has survived the night before
[14:22] <jcoxon> the radios drift like crazy but they still work
[14:23] Action: rjharrison_ thinks fm
[14:24] <jcoxon> surely fm will still drift
[14:24] <jcoxon> and also this is a long duration flight - we need to be prepared for super range!
[14:25] <juxta_> sodium acetate is good for about 265-290J/g according to wiki, beats pretty much all batteries except for li-ion (~460J/g)
[14:26] <russss> at how many watts?
[14:27] <juxta_> not too sure russss, but it's pretty quick
[14:27] <juxta_> so I guess the wattage would be high
[14:27] <russss> I guess you want it slower
[14:27] <juxta_> yeah, probably
[14:27] <juxta_> depends if you're trying to heat the air in the payload or just a gps module
[14:27] <russss> also if it's multi-day you probably want it off (or lower) during the day
[14:28] <juxta_> yeah - the sodium acetate reaction is over in 10 seconds
[14:28] <russss> so I'm guessing electric is easier in that case.
[14:28] <russss> presumably the handwarmers have some kind of moderator in though
[14:29] <jcoxon> maybe a job for a solar panel?
[14:29] <juxta_> hmm, lithium thionyl chloride batteries are good for 2000J/g
[14:29] <juxta_> massive!
[14:29] <russss> holy crap
[14:29] <russss> so why aren't we using them in cars then? ;)
[14:30] <juxta_> lowish current capacity evidently
[14:30] <jcoxon> probably cause they explode or are difficult to charge
[14:30] <juxta_> rated for -55 to +150 degrees though
[14:32] <jcoxon> juxta_, russss, i wonder if we could make a sodium acetate device that could easily be turned on
[14:32] <jcoxon> considering how easy it is to get hold of
[14:32] <juxta_> jcoxon: making the sodium acetate itself is easy too, you dont need to buy it
[14:33] <juxta_> it might be possible to trigger it electronically, I don't know. I dropped chemistry a while back ;p
[14:33] <russss> yeah I was thinking that
[14:34] <jcoxon> or is it easier to get have 2 AAs a few resistors around hte gps module?
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> 3 AAs, a resistor, a 1W LED and a lens pointing down.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:35] <juxta_> a friend of mine suggested it might be doable when we discussed it a while ago, he's a chemistry guru, so I'll ask him for more advice next time I speak to him
[14:36] <juxta_> but I think resistors is probably an easier way to heat just the GPS module
[14:36] <jcoxon> hmmmm so sodium acetate works by super cooling
[14:36] <rjharrison_> Electronic is the way to go and just heat before gps is needed
[14:36] <jcoxon> it gets solid at 58C but as it supe cools can exist at room temp
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Or ammonium nitrate is also used the same way
[14:36] <rjharrison_> Infact I would only heat twice a day and get a fix and just repeat it if the gps dies at other times
[14:36] <jcoxon> but at -55 i suspect it might solidify
[14:36] <juxta_> jcoxon: yeah, so i'm not sure, it might get *too cold* and not be able to start a chain reaction
[14:37] <jcoxon> juxta_, or start without us triggering
[14:37] <rjharrison_> obv modify to amount of power available
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> juxta_: It's not a chain reaction
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> But starting without triggering is more likely as temp goes down
[14:37] <jcoxon> i think electronics is the solution
[14:38] <rjharrison_> and insulation
[14:38] <jcoxon> rjharrison thats a given
[14:38] <rjharrison_> How often is payload doing an et
[14:38] <rjharrison_> as in calling home
[14:38] <jcoxon> it'll be hte atlas flight computer so pretty much all teh time
[14:39] <jcoxon> (this is ballasthalo rather than atlantic halo
[14:39] <jcoxon> )
[14:39] <rjharrison_> Embed the R's / LED's in the insulation though
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> LED would be fun at night.
[14:39] <jcoxon> once i fitted the backup battery i was going to embedded the gps in insulation
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't take a huge amount of power to be _very_ visible in binocs at night at stupid ranges
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> 0.9nW/m^2 is a clearly visible star
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> (magnitude 4)
[14:40] <jcoxon> okay i'll bbl, thanks guys for the help
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> And you've got ~1/4W coming out of a good white 1W LED.
[14:40] <rjharrison_> Well then the R's will be fine with just a PP3
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> wave
[14:40] <russss> the question is how well you can insulate I think
[14:40] <russss> you could put the GPS in a thermos, heh
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> That's not a stupid idea.
[14:41] <russss> but I guess you have to heat the antenna/LNA too.
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> You get some cheapish thermosses that are actually very light - once you unscrew the plastic
[14:41] <russss> I am assuming that thermoses are pretty radio-opaque
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> and just have the glass bottle
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[14:42] <rjharrison_> but not ait tight or pop goes the weasle
[14:42] <russss> oh crap, I didn't think of that :)
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> They have vacuum inside - so...
[14:42] <russss> well I dunno what the operating pressure of a thermos is
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> Hard vacuum
[14:42] <russss> oh yeah
[14:42] <russss> you're destressing them
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> Well under a millibar
[14:42] <russss> so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue
[14:43] <russss> (presumably that's how they make them)
[14:43] <russss> as for the inside, just fill the open end up with some spray foam or something
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe even just put the top on!
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:44] <juxta_> haha
[14:46] <rjharrison_> lol
[14:46] <rjharrison_> But that is going to weigh a bit
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[14:46] <rjharrison_> v's the electronics
[14:47] <russss> also, at altitude I wonder how much leat is actually lost by conduction/convection as opposed to radiation.
[14:47] <russss> heat.
[14:49] <russss> because if it's mainly radiation then sod the thermos, heh
[14:51] <rjharrison_> FYI http://www.mistralni.co.uk/details.php?id=44&gclid=CO7T7_fgj54CFVVu4wodzRkRpg
[14:52] <russss> it's nice that it's non-toxic.
[14:52] <rjharrison_> Yep S&V crisps
[14:53] <juxta_> vinegar + sodium bicarbonate
[14:53] <juxta_> boil off the water, then melt the crystals and you have sodium acetate
[14:53] <juxta_> :D
[14:54] <russss> although at £30 for 5kg you might as well just buy it
[14:54] <juxta_> haha
[14:54] <juxta_> good point
[14:55] <rjharrison_> Now if it worked you could use it to heat and then dump it as balast for balast halo
[14:56] <russss> it's a solid though
[14:56] <juxta_> yeah
[15:01] <russss> I guess there are quite a few solid + liquid -> liquid reactions you could use as ballast
[15:01] <russss> anhydrous crystal + water -> solution kind of affair
[15:02] <rjharrison_> A few less at -55C
[15:03] <russss> ah true.
[15:03] <russss> I was thinking with antifreeze
[15:03] <russss> but even then it's too low
[15:04] <Laurenceb> whats up?
[15:04] Action: Laurenceb cant be bothered to read hte scrollback
[15:05] <russss> talking heating methods
[15:05] <Laurenceb> russss: you lose mostly by radiation once you get past 20Km or so
[15:05] <russss> yeah thought so
[15:05] <Laurenceb> its not too hard to calculate thermal stuff
[15:06] <russss> so surely tin foil is (part of) the answer
[15:06] <Laurenceb> usually the power dissapation of the tronics + their thermal mass is enough
[15:06] <Laurenceb> you mean aluminium :P
[15:06] <russss> yes yes :P
[15:06] <Laurenceb> depends - 25mm of insulating foam should be ok
[15:07] <russss> although a thermos would still be good I guess
[15:07] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: Ive used that antenna, seems to work fine
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[15:12] <Laurenceb> I think you should be able to live with just some insulation
[15:12] <Laurenceb> lets say the tronics can survive at -25C, and the ambient is -55
[15:12] <rjharrison_> Laurenceb don't forget Atlas died till sunrise
[15:13] <Laurenceb> so you have 30C, and the power draw is 1Watt
[15:13] <Laurenceb> sure
[15:15] <Laurenceb> 35mm of insulation should be fine
[15:16] <Laurenceb> assuming a 100mm cude internal space for the tronics
[15:16] <Laurenceb> *cube
[15:16] <Laurenceb> and that assumed perfect heat loss to the air
[15:16] <Laurenceb> if you wrap in mylar it should be fine
[15:17] <russss> what was the insulation on atlas?
[15:20] <Laurenceb> dunno
[15:20] <Laurenceb> probably 25mm polystyrene
[15:23] <Laurenceb> if you use something decent like xtratherm 35mm
[15:23] <Laurenceb> that will have about 3 times the U value
[15:24] <Laurenceb> then if its got aluminised mylar on the outside its going to be even better
[15:33] <rjharrison_> I think this is where totex came from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon
[15:34] <rjharrison_> For the newer memebers This is the company that makes the met balloons more or less for the world
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[15:53] Action: Laurenceb is still trying to work out pitot tubes
[15:53] <Laurenceb> http://www.sensortechnics.com/index.php?fid=300&fpar=YToxOntzOjQ6InBjaWQiO3M6MjoiOTkiO30%3D&isSSL=0&aps=0&blub=c586664226675348eeddf65c82c14fe2
[15:53] <Laurenceb> I think HCLA02X5EU would be good enough - +-10% error at 14mph
[15:54] <Laurenceb> hot wire sensors are going to have similar error
[16:00] <Laurenceb> hmm I'd need an airframe
[16:12] <Laurenceb> ublox5, pitot tube and sparkfun UAV bevboard
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[16:25] <Laurenceb> http://voidbot.net/razor-6dof.html
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[17:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.adaptivemodules.co.uk/index.cfm/fa/shopdetails/Product_ID/329/Category_ID/24
[17:07] <rjharrison_> Hey RocketBoy
[17:07] <rjharrison_> Thanks for the call earlier
[17:08] <RocketBoy> np - I have been looing around http://www.asianproducts.com/product_7/Yagi-antenna_P11794758467697130.htm - £5 each if you buy 500
[17:08] <Laurenceb> heh nice
[17:09] <rjharrison_> Humm we only have 50 subscribers
[17:09] <jcoxon> i think you'll struggle to shift 450 of those
[17:09] <RocketBoy> yeah
[17:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.adaptivemodules.co.uk/index.cfm/fa/shopdetails/Product_ID/322/Category_ID/24
[17:10] <Laurenceb> wonder how hard itd be to stick coax on that
[17:10] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy write to them for a price for 5
[17:11] <rjharrison_> I'll wager they would be happy to supply
[17:12] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy I forgot to mention earlier that The Sun's 40th Birthday is tomorrow. My Third post today :)
[17:12] <RocketBoy> yeah - its worth an email - perhaps i an get some "samples"
[17:13] <rjharrison_> Ask if they can knock something up in the 20db range
[17:13] <Laurenceb> thing is - makng ants is pretty easy
[17:14] <Laurenceb> guess itd save us a lot of money to buy a load
[17:14] <rjharrison_> Yep if you have time on your hands
[17:14] <Laurenceb> but its not the hardest thing to wack together
[17:14] <rjharrison_> Personally I'd rather spen 50 quid than spend a day doing it and tying to get it right
[17:14] <jcoxon> oooo shuttle launch this evening
[17:14] <rjharrison_> Cool
[17:14] <jcoxon> 1928GMT
[17:15] Action: russss has been watching nasa tv all afternoon
[17:15] <russss> although I'm going in the pub at 1928
[17:15] <russss> +to be
[17:16] <jcoxon> thats what mobile broadband is for!
[17:16] <russss> heh
[17:16] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, opamps and photodiodes arrived this morning
[17:16] <Laurenceb> neat
[17:16] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8363102.stm
[17:17] <russss> nice
[17:18] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: are you going to use stripboard?
[17:19] <jcoxon> don't really have time to make a pcb
[17:19] <jcoxon> so probably
[17:19] <Laurenceb> stripboard is always good
[17:21] <jcoxon> was going to breadboard it first
[17:21] <sbasuita> kitesurfing ;O
[17:21] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: also smart
[17:22] <Laurenceb> did you see that schematic I linked?
[17:22] <jcoxon> ummm i don't remember one
[17:22] <jcoxon> so i guess no
[17:22] <russss> on the subject of the shuttle, I found an interesting tech site about it http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/count.html
[17:23] Action: Laurenceb looks about for it
[17:25] <Laurenceb> http://www.ecircuitcenter.com/Circuits/opitov/opitov.htm
[17:25] <Laurenceb> however, you need about -5V across the diode
[17:25] <Laurenceb> what voltages will you have avaliable?
[17:25] <jcoxon> i'm running at 3.3v
[17:26] <jcoxon> or the battery voltage
[17:26] <Laurenceb> right
[17:26] <Laurenceb> using 3.3V is probably best, but ideally you want a bit more for a photodiode
[17:26] <Laurenceb> hmm I'm not 100% sure about it
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[17:30] <Laurenceb> maybe photovoltaic mode would be better
[17:32] <Laurenceb> ok yeah probably photovoltaic, so that design I linked with a "0 volt" rail
[17:33] <Laurenceb> you can make that with two resistors and a cap
[17:33] <Laurenceb> - 1.65V
[17:33] <Laurenceb> then treat that as ground in the schematic
[17:34] <jcoxon> you mean the second circuit?
[17:34] <jcoxon> with the filters
[17:34] <Laurenceb> the one with the cap yes
[17:35] <jcoxon> there are two caps :-)
[17:35] <Laurenceb> Cs and RS are parasitic
[17:35] <Laurenceb> to the photodiode
[17:36] <Laurenceb> do you have the photodiode datasheet?
[17:37] <jcoxon> yup
[17:39] <Laurenceb> link?
[17:39] <jcoxon> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=195-760
[17:41] <jcoxon> bbiab
[17:42] <Laurenceb> you want a few hundered Kohm
[17:43] <Laurenceb> for RF
[17:44] <Laurenceb> and a few nano farad for CF
[17:45] <Laurenceb> then maybe 10K ohm or so for each of the potential divider resistors, and a microfarad or so from the "0 volt" rail to actual ground
[17:48] <Laurenceb> then you need to compare the opamp output to the 0 volt rail
[17:48] <Laurenceb> or if you pulse the led on/off, dont bother and just take the opamp output
[17:54] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah maybe RF=100Kohm, CF=50nF or so
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[18:11] <rjharrison_> jcoxon, good luck with that
[18:11] <sbasuita> http://www.skytopia.com/project/fractal/mandelbulb.html
[18:11] <rjharrison_> Let me know when you move back to the known volume second container idea :)
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[18:16] <rjharrison_> sbasuita, nice
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[18:29] <rjharrison_> I'm off home
[18:29] <rjharrison_> Laters all
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[19:04] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: about?
[19:05] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[19:05] <Laurenceb> do you have the right parts?
[19:06] <jcoxon> yes i think so
[19:06] <Laurenceb> cool, I'd try breadboarding it and seeing what the ADC produces
[19:07] <jcoxon> will do, not sure i'll get time this evening but certainly tomorrow
[19:09] <Laurenceb> if its too sensitive you may need to turn down the led current
[19:09] <Laurenceb> also it'll need sheilding from ambient light
[19:09] <Laurenceb> a couple of ma for the led should be ok
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Argh.
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Do not in low ambient temperatures place large frozen items in the refrigerator compartment of a fridge/freezer.
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> _completely_ defrosted.
[19:22] <jcoxon> shuttle launch time
[19:27] Action: SpeedEvil does the annoying 'find the URL for the video stream' dance.
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> ( mms://209.73.189.70/nqsenc004_d?StreamID=95808537&pl_auth=36f1591c5b5e47bbe626364aa9eb7756&ht=120&pl_b=00D90C088751AE84D24041608F4B01A757&CG_ID=1369080&Segment=149773 )
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[19:37] <jcoxon> good launch
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> yep
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> Lots of teeny flakes of ice.
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[19:52] <Laurenceb> http://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/
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[20:17] <RocketBoy> Just been copying the ISS via 144.825MHz packet radio - on just a handheld and internal whip
[20:20] <Laurenceb> sweet
[20:20] <Laurenceb> what power?
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[20:24] <RocketBoy> I don't think they use very much - just a few watts - let me check
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[20:30] <RocketBoy> probably about 5 watts from what I can find
[20:32] <RocketBoy> I probably started to copy it when it was 400Km away
[20:40] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, do you mean 145.825?
[20:47] <RocketBoy> yes
[20:47] <RocketBoy> (sorry typing error)
[20:52] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, so you left a message in the mailbox?
[20:53] <RocketBoy> na I have no uplink at the mo
[20:54] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, I just read an article recommending 25-50 watts - surely that's overkill considering you have line-of-sight?
[20:55] <RocketBoy> well I guess at very low angles the distance is quite great
[20:56] <RocketBoy> and I assume thats for a omni-directional ground antenna
[20:56] <sbasuita> Hmm fair enough
[20:56] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, was it quite busy?
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[20:58] <RocketBoy> yeah - loads of copy - heres some
[20:59] <RocketBoy> EA1AXY-0 -> APRS-0 via RS0ISS UI Pid=F0
[20:59] <RocketBoy> :BLNQSL1/1:PD0RKC,DF4FO-1,PD4U-2,PH7FE,ON3AVC,MD0MAN,EA1AQE-2,PD4U
[20:59] <RocketBoy> GM1YPJ-7 -> APU25N-0 via RS0ISS, WIDE3 UI^ Pid=F0
[20:59] <RocketBoy> =5650.58N/00505.80Wy73 de Larry[IO76KU] {UIV32N}.
[21:00] <RocketBoy> EA6XQ-0 -> APU25N-0 via RS0ISS UI^ Pid=F0
[21:00] <RocketBoy> =3919.05N/00259.69E`Mallorca-Spain via ISS {UIV32}
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[21:01] <RocketBoy> about 1 message every 3 or 4 seconds
[21:02] <sbasuita> nice
[21:03] <RocketBoy> I guess its not that surprising - but just the 1st time I have done it.
[21:03] <RocketBoy> bbl - flash forward
[21:03] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
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[22:01] Nick change: RocketBoy|Away -> Rocketboy
[22:01] Nick change: Rocketboy -> RocketBoy
[22:07] <MikeMc_> Evening all
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[22:25] <rjharrison> Evening
[22:25] <MikeMc_> hi rjharrison
[22:25] <rjharrison> Will get confirmation from the sun in an hour if I have the frontpage for tomorrow
[22:25] <MikeMc_> cool
[22:26] <rjharrison> evening MikeMc_
[22:26] <rjharrison> Yep fingers crossed
[22:26] <rjharrison> bbiab
[22:30] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:30] <sbasuita> evening guys
[22:31] <sbasuita> BTW I checked the frequency differences between us/uk 817nd
[22:31] <sbasuita> basically the us one just has more bands and wider bands
[22:31] <sbasuita> so i can't see any technical reason to not get an american one for uk use
[22:31] <MikeMc_> evening
[22:32] <sbasuita> unless somebody here or on the local club mailing list can think of something
[22:33] <jonsowman> evening
[22:37] <RocketBoy> sbasuita - no I can see any problem as long as you don't actuallly transmit outside the UK band allotments - in any case you can probably flash the US 817 to UK settings
[22:37] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, great :)
[22:37] <RocketBoy> whats the advantage of getting one from the US?
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[22:39] <sbasuita> RocketBoy, well, my dad is in california this week on business, and we could save a fair bit (probably 80 quid) buying it there
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[22:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, hallo
[22:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, hello
[22:40] <Randomskk> sbasuita: nice
[22:40] <Randomskk> saves postage too :P
[22:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, my sound is messed up more than my graphics card... infact, gfx is fine but sound is being a total bitch
[22:40] <Randomskk> sbasuita: got a callsign yet? :P
[22:41] <sbasuita> Randomskk, ofcom hasn't gotten my pass yet
[22:41] <sbasuita> Randomskk, i'm going to go for an m3 one - just to seem slightly older ;P
[22:41] <Randomskk> what day did you pass?
[22:41] <sbasuita> Randomskk, saturday
[22:41] <Randomskk> ah okay
[22:41] <Randomskk> I passed on friday and it was ready on wednesday but I doubt they work weekends anyway so probably about the same for you
[22:41] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, :s
[22:41] <sbasuita> Randomskk, cool
[22:41] <sbasuita> Randomskk, how did you pick your callsign?
[22:41] <Randomskk> hehe good plan on the m3, so long as the letters you want are available on it
[22:42] <Randomskk> sbasuita: for foundation I didn't care that much and went for M6AGG (my initials), they didn't have AGG on the other foundation prefixes
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[22:42] <Randomskk> for intermediate (same time, did the exams back to back) almost everything I tried was taken
[22:42] <sbasuita> Randomskk, my initials are SSB, so I guess that would be taken. Maybe M3XSB...
[22:42] <Randomskk> eventually settled on 2E0SKK, which surprisingly was taken on 2E1 but not on 2E0
[22:43] <Randomskk> pro tip: when picking intermediate callsigns, you enter them as 20SKK, skipping the E
[22:43] <sbasuita> Randomskk, thanks ;)
[22:44] <Randomskk> but yea, just find some three letters you'd like and try it with every prefix you're allowed to pick from
[22:44] <Randomskk> I think foundation is just m3 and m6? maybe?
[22:44] <Randomskk> there are absolutely loads for full
[22:45] <sbasuita> Randomskk, yes just m3 and m6
[22:45] <sbasuita> If I can't get my initials then anything that sounds cool in phonetics will do me :D
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[22:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, go nuke ALSA for me
[22:45] <DanielRichman> grrr
[22:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you using pulse?
[22:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what is the issue?
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[22:47] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, the main alsa channel randomly decided to mute itself, and totem refused to play any audio at all
[22:47] Action: DanielRichman brings up ffplay
[22:48] <Randomskk> http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/amateur/information/20030701? there it is
[22:48] <Randomskk> I suspect pretty much all of the G range is entirely taken though :P
[22:49] <Randomskk> you want an m0 or m1 really
[22:49] <jonsowman> M0 is cooler than m1
[22:49] <Randomskk> obviously
[22:49] <Randomskk> and any G would be cooler than M
[22:49] <gordonjcp> I could get GM0EXW
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[22:49] <jonsowman> well yes, if you can get it
[22:50] <Randomskk> getting it is the tricky part
[22:50] <Randomskk> is there any way to check what's available besides at the form where you are choosing one?
[22:50] <gordonjcp> my dad had GM6VZA then GM0EXW, but he's sk now
[22:51] <Randomskk> why did he change g6 to g0?
[22:51] <gordonjcp> it didn't
[22:51] <Randomskk> he got two?
[22:51] <gordonjcp> oh, *he* not *the*
[22:51] <gordonjcp> sorry, this connection is shit and I keep losing it
[22:52] <Randomskk> heh
[22:52] <gordonjcp> because he went from the B licence to the A licence
[22:52] <RocketBoy> I was G6AMF at the same time as G8KHW
[22:52] <Randomskk> ah, okay.
[22:52] <sbasuita> When you pick your callsign on the ofcom website, does it give you a list of available options?
[22:52] <Randomskk> but now G6 and G0 are both "full"?
[22:52] <Randomskk> sbasuita: not really
[22:52] <gordonjcp> yes
[22:52] <Randomskk> you enter in what you want
[22:52] <Randomskk> and it suggests available alternatives if unavailable
[22:52] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, ?
[22:52] <Randomskk> or you can just leave it blank, and it assigns you the next sequentially available call
[22:52] <gordonjcp> sbasuita: no, that was in answer Randomskk
[22:53] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, got my hopes up ;|
[22:53] <gordonjcp> yup, that's how I got MM3YEQ
[22:53] <gordonjcp> then 2M0YEQ was available, and finally MM0YEQ
[22:53] <RocketBoy> the G licence was for amateur TV - then they added that to the standard ham licence and took G6AMF away
[22:53] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, you're in scotland?
[22:53] <RocketBoy> G6
[23:01] <DanielRichman> ping sbasuita
[23:06] <gordonjcp> sbasuita: yes
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[23:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, hi
[23:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, @xmpp
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[00:00] --- Tue Nov 17 2009