highaltitude.log.20091115

[00:03] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[00:15] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-163-133-203.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[00:15] <Laurenceb> hello
[00:27] <RocketBoy> Hi Laurenceb - can you take a look over http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:pwm_dac and see if it makes sense
[00:30] RobertB (n=robert@p579FCCB0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:33] Xenion (n=robert@p57972E55.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)
[00:35] <Laurenceb> brb, cooking
[00:35] <Laurenceb> sorry
[00:36] <RocketBoy> np - nights
[00:36] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) left irc: "Leaving"
[01:15] edmoore (n=ed@5aca53f8.bb.sky.com) joined #highaltitude.
[01:27] edmoore (n=ed@5aca53f8.bb.sky.com) left irc:
[01:53] GeekShadow (n=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[02:10] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-163-133-203.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[02:28] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[02:44] juxta (i=fourtytw@122-49-151-208.ip.adam.com.au) joined #highaltitude.
[04:02] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) left irc:
[04:10] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:25] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) left irc:
[04:29] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:34] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) left irc:
[08:12] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "My other car is a cdr."
[08:20] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:20] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:21] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps.
[08:21] Action: SpeedEvil is unsure if it's morning, or if it's the night before, as he's pondering going back to sleep.
[08:23] <SpeedEvil> I assume everyone wanting google wave invites has them?
[08:27] <jcoxon> i got mine
[08:27] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, did you get yours?
[08:27] <SpeedEvil> yes
[08:28] <jcoxon> cool
[08:28] <SpeedEvil> wondering if anyone missed out as I have a few invites
[08:28] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, is there a way of using timers on a micro to measure the passing of time but without continalling interupting the loop?
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> Depends on your micro.
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> Some have very flexible timer modules
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> Some less so
[08:30] <jcoxon> hmmm might as well use gps time
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> For example you may need to do stuff like setting up a timer unit for a prescale of 64, and a count of its maximum of 255, which will interrupt every 64*255 clocks. And in the ISR, you increment a counter
[08:30] <jcoxon> doesn't need to be very accurate
[08:31] <SpeedEvil> So to get the time, you read the stored counter, and the real-time counter. Then if the real-time counter is where it might have overflowed recently (while you were reading) re-read the stored counter
[08:32] <jcoxon> okay
[08:33] <jcoxon> hmmmm gps time will be fine
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> If GPS doesn't fall over - but do you care in that case
[08:33] <jcoxon> i'm going to be working in minutes/seconds rather then smaller stuff
[08:35] EI5GTB (n=Paul@78.16.171.80) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[08:35] EI5GTB (n=Paul@78.16.94.222) joined #highaltitude.
[08:59] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: Excess Flood
[08:59] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude.
[09:21] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[09:36] edmoore (n=ed@5aca53f8.bb.sky.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:43] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[09:44] <edmoore> morning jcoxon
[09:44] <edmoore> how are things?
[09:44] <jcoxon> good thanks
[09:44] <jcoxon> does lead block radio signals?
[09:46] <MikeMc> morning
[09:48] <jcoxon> morning MikeMc
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: As much as any conductive substance
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: It has no virtue over - say - aluminium.
[09:59] <edmoore> jcoxon: yes
[09:59] <edmoore> and gamma decay
[10:00] <jcoxon> makes sense :-p
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> Also neutrinos.
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> IIRC 63 light years of lead attenuates by half.
[10:00] <jcoxon> imy flat is on the top floor in the roof so the window that my desk is at sticks out and is lead lined
[10:04] <jcoxon> hence why my radio doesn't work great indoors
[10:04] <jcoxon> edmoore, is there a test call to a repeater?
[10:05] <edmoore> jcoxon: usually there's acarrier for a few secs afterwards
[10:06] <jcoxon> i never really understood repeater etiquette
[10:06] <edmoore> i think you're not really meant to key in but not saying anything, but i think most people ignore that
[10:06] <edmoore> damn, should have brought my handheld
[10:06] <edmoore> i reckon we could do simplex
[10:06] <edmoore> and am on 4th floor building in stratford, can see the rof of O2
[10:07] <jcoxon> oh we definitely can
[10:07] <jcoxon> SE16 7AU
[10:08] <jcoxon> ooo sweet i've manged to get into GB3NS
[10:09] <jcoxon> though of course no one is there :-p
[10:09] <edmoore> naturally
[10:10] <edmoore> i always bring my radio too
[10:10] <edmoore> damn
[10:10] <edmoore> the one weekend
[10:10] <jcoxon> just added a clip on the outside of my window so i can attach my antenna easily
[10:16] <edmoore> can run some co-ax to the sofa
[10:16] <edmoore> airchair repeating
[10:16] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:18] <edmoore> jcoxon: GN3NS?
[10:18] <edmoore> CAN'T SEE THAT ON THE MAP
[10:18] <juxta> evening all :)
[10:18] <edmoore> whoops
[10:19] <edmoore> i have the ukrepeater kml map
[10:19] <edmoore> sorry can see it now
[10:21] <edmoore> it's good, is that map
[10:21] <jcoxon> i use http://www.charlescoverley.co.uk/ham/repeaters.htm
[10:24] <jcoxon> hey juxta
[10:24] <edmoore> the kml is good that's floating around
[10:24] <edmoore> good on balloon chases
[10:25] <jcoxon> edmoore, i'm playing with one of those low power mosfets
[10:25] <edmoore> uhuh
[10:26] <edmoore> innthe to220?
[10:26] <jcoxon> and it seems to be that once activated the mosfet stays on
[10:26] <jcoxon> yes
[10:26] <edmoore> are you using it above or below the source?
[10:27] <jcoxon> so i've got a 4.5v going to my valve
[10:27] <jcoxon> and am activating it with 3.3v
[10:27] <edmoore> what's the precise device name?
[10:28] <jcoxon> STP36nf06l
[10:30] <jonsowman> morning all
[10:31] <jcoxon> morning jonsowman
[10:32] <juxta> just reading the format of tracking data on the wiki - do you guys usually broadcast a sequential number (as in the Nth radio transmission), or something like the number of seconds since boot?
[10:32] <edmoore> entirely depends on who
[10:33] <juxta> ah right, so the formatting is flexible :)
[10:33] <edmoore> yep
[10:33] <edmoore> it's just a unique identifier
[10:33] <jcoxon> juxta, the server uses a xml file to know how to interpret
[10:33] <jcoxon> e.g.
[10:33] <jcoxon> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/badger.xml
[10:33] <edmoore> for the server as much as anything else
[10:34] <juxta> ahh, nice
[10:34] <juxta> so how exactly does dl-fldigi forward the data on jcoxon? is it post requests to a particular URL?
[10:34] <jcoxon> yes
[10:35] <juxta> alrighty
[10:35] <jcoxon> so dl-fldigi first sets up fldigi appropraitely using those xml files (e.g. sets the shift)
[10:35] <juxta> I've drummed up interest with a few people who should be able to listen in when I launch
[10:35] <jcoxon> then when it detects a string (by identifying the $$ at the beginning)
[10:35] <jcoxon> it checks the string a bit (number of fields, length of each field etc)
[10:36] <jcoxon> then forwards it onto the server using POST with libcurl
[10:36] <juxta> nice
[10:36] <jcoxon> the server then logs this and does its own checks
[10:36] <jcoxon> and if its valid posts it
[10:36] <edmoore> has anyone got an email from atmel marketting this morning?
[10:36] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi also every 10mins sends a status update to the server to say that its listening
[10:36] <juxta> couple of other questions, I noticed you guys were doing checksum validation - is it XOR sums that you're calculating?
[10:37] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dlistener
[10:37] <jcoxon> yup
[10:37] <jcoxon> basically at minimum the server would like:
[10:37] <juxta> ah nice, thanks for the wiki page :)
[10:38] <jcoxon> $$CALLSIGN,COUNT,TIME,LAT,LON,ALT
[10:38] <jcoxon> the checksum isn't necessary but has been shown to really help
[10:38] <juxta> I wasn't sure where to calculate checksum from (if you included the $$ prefix, looks like you skip them)
[10:39] <juxta> yeah, I can imagine
[10:39] <edmoore> i think we should make it necessary
[10:39] <edmoore> otherwise the tracker map starts to look like a jackson pollock painting
[10:40] <juxta> also - I've told my payload to broadcast it's coords as 0.0000 & 0.0000 if it loses lock for whatever reason - the probability checks on the mapping would ignore any such packets, wouldnt it?
[10:40] <jcoxon> juxta, to tell teh truth its probably better to broadcast your last known coords
[10:40] <edmoore> on the basis of experience i think you would find it a lot more useful to transmit the last known co-ords
[10:40] <jonsowman> edmoore: are you around for the tracker building today?
[10:40] <edmoore> yep
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> last known coords +90/180 maybe
[10:41] <jcoxon> juxta, i actually send a different format when no lock
[10:41] <juxta> jcoxon, edmoore - ok, i'll make the modifications :)
[10:41] <jcoxon> using / instead of ,
[10:41] <juxta> I'll be transmitting numsats also
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> that too
[10:41] <jcoxon> then the tracker ignores it
[10:41] <jcoxon> but still logs it and its easily readable
[10:41] <edmoore> that way when it has a hard landing and cracks the gps antenna, you will still know where it was just before it landed and so be able to find it
[10:42] <juxta> gps antennas have cracked on landing?
[10:42] <edmoore> that was a for-instance
[10:42] <juxta> ;p
[10:42] <edmoore> but something can happen
[10:42] <juxta> yeah
[10:42] <juxta> good point
[10:42] <edmoore> you may scrack a solder joint that attches the gps to the flight computer
[10:42] <edmoore> when you acidently throw your payload out of a window
[10:42] <edmoore> say
[10:42] <jcoxon> edmoore, any thoughts on this mosfet
[10:42] <jcoxon> hehe - its been known...
[10:43] <jcoxon> and in the process found a potentially fatal solder joint
[10:43] <edmoore> sorry yes - is it below or above the load i.e. is it 4.5V - pump - Mosfet - GND or 4.5V - mosfet - pump - gnd?
[10:43] <juxta> I was planning on modifying my GPS code to not hang if it couldnt get an NMEA string :)
[10:43] <jcoxon> 4.5 - pump - mosfet - ground
[10:43] <edmoore> graceful failure handling is probably the meaasure of a good balloon payload
[10:44] <jcoxon> i'm about to sort out reporting sats as well
[10:44] <jcoxon> as that helps isolate issues
[10:44] <jcoxon> on my atlas payload
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: n channel FET?
[10:44] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: it is yep
[10:44] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> If it's a n channel, you want to connect the FET to ground, and the drain to the load
[10:45] <juxta> I'm waiting on my backup battery & holder for my lassen - otherwise it takes an eternity to get a lock :)
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> so switch the low-side
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Othewise you need a supply rail ~5V over the load voltage to turn it on.
[10:45] <edmoore> that is how it's configured now
[10:45] <edmoore> jcoxon: do you def have a pulldown resistor?
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> Make sure that you've got a FET with a gate threshold such that at -55C, and worst case Vcc it will in fact switch on hard enough
[10:46] <edmoore> it's logic level
[10:46] <edmoore> got the driving onboard
[10:46] <edmoore> oh wait
[10:46] <edmoore> it isn't
[10:46] <edmoore> gah
[10:46] <edmoore> jcoxon, you want those logic level ones
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> 'logic level' typically just means that it has a threshold in the ~2.5V range
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> It has no internal drivers.
[10:47] <edmoore> these ones have onboard driving circuitry to saturate on
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> Also, if you're running 3.3V Vcc, a lot of 'logic level' FETs are 5V
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> k
[10:47] <jcoxon> i seem to remember how these ones didn't work at low voltages
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> Or rather - are logic level from 5V circuitry, but not really at 3.3
[10:47] <jcoxon> well at least thats clear
[10:48] <jcoxon> i'm tempted to just use my 3v relay
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> What's worst case Vcc from the micro, and what's the load?
[10:50] <jcoxon> hmmm i wouldn't expect the vcc from the micro to go below 3v
[10:50] <jcoxon> and it'll be driving a 6v pump
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.farnell.com/mosfets-single
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> then look at Voltage Vgs Rds on Measurement
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> you want to select that at 2.5V or so - threshold will rise a bit at -55C
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/sts6nf20v/mosfet-n-so-8/dp/9935762 - say
[10:56] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, thanks
[11:04] <edmoore> jcoxon: so this latitude thing is basically a marauder's map?
[11:04] <jonsowman> pretty much
[11:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:08] <edmoore> are you logged in?
[11:08] <juxta> if I want to use an ouput from my micro to a transistor base to switch a load, will the ground of my micro need to be connected to the load of the load to switch?
[11:08] <jcoxon> i'm always logged in :-)
[11:11] <edmoore> ok
[11:11] <edmoore> i think i have to re-ask you for acceptance or something
[11:11] <edmoore> check email
[11:13] <jcoxon> done
[11:14] <jcoxon> yup i can see you
[11:15] <edmoore> snap
[11:15] <edmoore> wow
[11:16] <edmoore> we need to parse it into tracker map
[11:17] <jcoxon> i think there is a a beta api around which we could use
[11:18] <jcoxon> by using this: http://www.google.com/latitude/apps/badge
[11:18] <edmoore> perfect
[11:18] <jcoxon> certainly a project for someone
[11:27] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[11:28] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
[11:30] <edmoore> jcoxon: you're not moving
[11:32] <jcoxon> am i meant to be moving?
[11:32] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[11:32] <jcoxon> hehe just got my first repeater contact
[11:32] <jcoxon> though i think he was just replying to my attempts to communciate :-p
[11:33] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[11:34] <edmoore> callsign?
[11:35] <jcoxon> g7ivj
[11:40] <edmoore> right, going back to cam
[11:40] edmoore (n=ed@5aca53f8.bb.sky.com) left irc:
[11:46] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[11:50] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host86-151-70-219.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:51] RobertB (n=robert@p579FCCB0.dip.t-dialin.net) left #highaltitude ("Verlassend").
[11:51] <jcoxon> hey SpikeUK
[11:52] <SpikeUK> jcoxon Morning! Has there been any word from the Spudnik crew?
[11:52] <jcoxon> rjharrison emailed them - they say it was recovered but cameras failed
[11:53] <jcoxon> there are images on their website of launch and recovery
[11:53] <MikeMc> hi everyone
[11:53] <jcoxon> http://www.spudnik1.co.uk/
[11:54] <SpikeUK> Oh right! That's a shame - oh yes - on http://absolute.myzen.co.uk/spudnik/The_Launch.shtml
[11:54] <SpikeUK> MikeMc Morning!
[11:55] <MikeMc> hey spike
[11:55] <jcoxon> their blackberry worked to 6000m - thats really impressive
[11:56] <SpikeUK> Just reading their write-up
[11:57] <MikeMc> yeah
[11:57] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, MikeMc you guys coming to hackspace this weds?
[11:57] <MikeMc> at least they got it all back - they can learn from launch 1 and find out why their camera didn't work and go fromthere
[11:57] <jcoxon> exactly
[11:57] <MikeMc> they would be much better off going for a CHDK compatible camera and uploading a script to it
[11:57] <juxta> has anybody used an SD card with an Atmega/arduino?
[11:57] <MikeMc> No but I playn on using one for my launch - i've read about it and it sounds very easy to do
[11:58] <juxta> I'm writing my code now for it
[11:58] <juxta> but something weird is happening with the library I'm using :(
[11:58] <DanielRichman> juxta, yes we have
[11:58] <DanielRichman> juxta, to great effect
[11:58] <MikeMc> jcoxon: presumign i'm not held up in work again then yes i'm coming to hackspace. Theyhave a talk on PCB design i'm looking forward to.
[11:58] <juxta> ah - what library did you use DanielRichman?
[11:58] <DanielRichman> juxta, I wrote my own from scratch; 'cause I wanted it to be non blocking and write only
[11:59] <juxta> DanielRichman: nice work. did you implement FAT also?
[11:59] <DanielRichman> juxta, rjharrison is also using the same code
[11:59] <DanielRichman> juxta, no, no fat, just raw writing
[11:59] <juxta> ah, righto
[12:00] <juxta> how much ram/flash did your code end up using?
[12:00] Futurity (n=Futurity@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust621.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:00] <MikeMc> no need for fat unless you want to read it on a PC/Mac
[12:00] Futurity (n=Futurity@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust621.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Client Quit
[12:00] <DanielRichman> juxta, our code is on our svn if you're interested; it's written for the atmega162 but rjharrison is using it on the 168/328 by just changing the pin names
[12:00] <DanielRichman> juxta, :
[12:00] <DanielRichman> text data bss dec hex filename
[12:00] <juxta> this is true :)
[12:00] <DanielRichman> 1350 5 20 1375 55f log.o
[12:01] <DanielRichman> just over 1KB
[12:01] <juxta> that's a nice improvement over what I'm using, which is taking up 10kb of flash and using 1kb of ram :)
[12:01] <DanielRichman> :D
[12:02] <juxta> excuse me for being ignorant, but what's the url for the SVN? :)
[12:02] <DanielRichman> it's entirely interrupt driven, but it pulls char-at-a-time so might be a pain to use. Can easily be adapted though
[12:02] <DanielRichman> juxta, i'm just going to see if i can find the old 328 adaptation that rjharrison uses
[12:03] <juxta> cheers, thanks DanielRichman :)
[12:03] <SpikeUK> jcoxon - I was not planning on going to the London HackSpace this week. Any reason that you ask?
[12:03] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, just wondering
[12:03] <jcoxon> i had nothing planned to do then
[12:04] borism_ (n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[12:05] <SpikeUK> jcoxon - your fluid tank level measuring problem - are you still using LED/sensor scheme?
[12:06] <DanielRichman> juxta, http://code.google.com/p/alien-flightcomputer/source/browse/#svn/trunk/alien1/atmega162/final
[12:06] <DanielRichman> juxta, that's the 162 version; sorry; couldn't find the one for the 168
[12:06] <DanielRichman> juxta, the files concerned are log.c and log.h
[12:07] <juxta> cheers DanielRichman :)
[12:07] <DanielRichman> juxta, you will also need hexdump.h
[12:07] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, the latest prototyp yes
[12:07] <DanielRichman> juxta, and you'll have to remove the reference to messages.h in log.c
[12:07] <jcoxon> am waiting on some parts right now
[12:07] <DanielRichman> juxta, the important function is messages_get_char. Due to the way I wrote our payload, the payload state is contained in a struct, and then that function is called to generate a character of message one at a time
[12:08] <DanielRichman> juxta, you'll need to replace that with your own function. It can be quite simple, like
[12:08] <SpikeUK> jcoxon - I was thinking about this the other day - if you are using a peristaltic pump, why not just count the revs?
[12:08] <DanielRichman> uint8_t *my_sd_buffer; uint8_t buffer_pos; function get_char() { unit8_t c; c = my_sd_buffer[buffer_pos]; buffer_pos++; return c; }
[12:09] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, indeed that is the plan, but a sensor is also helpful
[12:09] borism (n=boris@213.35.232.204) joined #highaltitude.
[12:09] <juxta> thanks a bunch DanielRichman :)
[12:09] <jcoxon> the led/photodiode is relatively easy and if we swap back to a valve then its all in place
[12:09] <DanielRichman> juxta, if get_char() returns 0x00, NULL, or 0, then it pauses writing to the SD Card. Note that doing so will not push data to the card
[12:09] <DanielRichman> juxta, ie. you write 100 bytes, pause by returning 0, nothing will be written until you complete a 512 byte block
[12:10] <juxta> ah
[12:10] <juxta> alright
[12:10] <DanielRichman> juxta, calling log_start makes it begin to call get_char until there is no more data
[12:10] <DanielRichman> juxta, once it is paused calling log_start begins it again
[12:11] <SpikeUK> jcoxon - Ah.Ok then. I did wonder ;-)
[12:11] <jcoxon> :-)
[12:11] <jcoxon> bbl
[12:12] Futurity (n=Futurity@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust621.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:12] <juxta> wow, awesome DanielRichman :D
[12:12] <DanielRichman> juxta, you'd probably be much better off asking rjharrison
[12:12] Futurity (n=Futurity@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust621.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[12:12] <SpikeUK> MikeMc - ping
[12:12] <DanielRichman> juxta, since he's managed to untangle my code from our project and put it to use in his own
[12:12] <juxta> hehe
[12:12] <juxta> by the way, have you guys launched, DanielRichman?
[12:13] <DanielRichman> juxta, not yet. We're building next weekend though
[12:13] <juxta> ah, nice :)
[12:13] <DanielRichman> juxta, and hopefully the weather will be ready for us in a couple of weeks
[12:13] <juxta> look forward to it :D
[12:13] <DanielRichman> juxta, PIN name translations: http://code.google.com/p/alien-flightcomputer/source/browse/trunk/misc-c/arduino-168/logtest.c
[12:15] <juxta> cheers
[12:16] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[12:18] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[12:19] <SpikeUK> bbl
[12:19] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host86-151-70-219.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.15/2009101601]"
[12:37] edmoore (n=ed@212.183.140.17) joined #highaltitude.
[12:39] <MikeMc> SpikeUK: ping
[12:40] <edmoore> back
[12:41] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Operation timed out
[12:52] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host86-151-70-219.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:56] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:05] <SpikeUK> MikeMc - ping
[13:38] edmoore (n=ed@212.183.140.17) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[13:47] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[14:17] simon_MPFH (n=simon@tiger.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:26] edmoore (n=ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:27] <Randomskk> hi edmoore
[14:29] <edmoore> hi Randomskk
[14:38] <edmoore> tits, something has come up
[14:38] <edmoore> may be a bit late
[14:38] edmoore (n=ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[14:53] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[14:56] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[15:15] <rjharrison_> DanielRichman, sbasuita did you pass ?
[15:15] <rjharrison_> Foundation
[15:15] <rjharrison_> I assume close to 100%
[15:16] <DanielRichman> rjharrison_, sbasuita is away today#
[15:16] <DanielRichman> though I'd be very suprised if he didn't pass; he 100%'d both practices
[15:18] <DanielRichman> rjharrison_, btw, juxta is trying the SD card code; I've pointed him towards the stuff i have done but noted that you might be able to help him apply it to his own project since you've done that for Icarus, and my code is a atmega162y and is intertwined with the rest of our flight computer code
[15:24] <rjharrison_> juxta, what uC are you using?
[15:41] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[15:45] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[15:48] RocketBoy|Away (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[15:54] darknesslord_ (n=darkness@201.166.153.253) joined #highaltitude.
[15:57] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy data is flowing
[16:01] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:02] <rjharrison_> hey james
[16:05] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison_
[16:05] <rjharrison_> hows it going
[16:05] <jcoxon> good thanks
[16:05] <jcoxon> you?
[16:05] <rjharrison_> I have got rtty woring on my 869's
[16:05] <jcoxon> oh nice
[16:05] <jcoxon> in FM?
[16:05] <rjharrison_> yep
[16:06] <rjharrison_> pwm]
[16:06] <jcoxon> nice
[16:06] <jcoxon> finally made a contact using my local repeater
[16:06] <rjharrison_> cool
[16:07] <jcoxon> also about to embark on rewriting some of my flight computer code
[16:07] <jcoxon> to deal with no gps lock a bit better
[16:15] <rjharrison_> oh 869 we love you, we love you, we do
[16:15] <jcoxon> i look forward to seeing it on a flight
[16:19] <rjharrison_> Yep tru
[16:19] <rjharrison_> But it's pumping out a treat at the moment
[16:19] <rjharrison_> Will make up a couple of 869 1/4 waves and do a distance test
[16:24] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: you have truetty don't you?
[16:24] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, yes
[16:25] <RocketBoy> can i ship you a 869MHz reciver? - so you can try my 869 packet out
[16:25] <jcoxon> yes
[16:25] <RocketBoy> (just a radimetrix module)
[16:28] <jcoxon> is this for test flight
[16:28] <RocketBoy> yeah - just adding to the number of recive stations
[16:28] <jcoxon> no worries
[16:29] <RocketBoy> they will need a packet program
[16:29] <MikeMc> evening all
[16:30] <RocketBoy> like truetty or AGWPE
[16:30] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, you planning to still piggyback ballasthalo3 or seperate flight?
[16:30] <rjharrison_> Hey RocketBoy just used my code from the 169mhx test and it worked without modification
[16:30] <RocketBoy> depends on what comes sooner
[16:30] <rjharrison_> I may shove the freqency up a bit
[16:31] <RocketBoy> good show - it would be good to some range test
[16:31] <rjharrison_> I'm txing constant atm
[16:31] <rjharrison_> is that allowed on the ground?
[16:32] <RocketBoy> one thing to note is that to be airbone leagal the bandwidth should be less than 25KHz
[16:32] <rjharrison_> Do you know where the rules are for 869?
[16:32] <rjharrison_> rtty should be fine on that
[16:32] <rjharrison_> I thinnk
[16:32] <RocketBoy> less that 10% duty cycle (i.e 10% of the time transmit)
[16:33] <rjharrison_> Is that true on the ground too
[16:33] <RocketBoy> I imagone thats intended to be over a minute rather than a month
[16:33] <rjharrison_> lol
[16:33] <rjharrison_> :)
[16:34] <rjharrison_> Good point I wont tx more than a months worth in any one year
[16:34] <RocketBoy> duty cycle wise yes 10% on the ground - but I think the 25KHz bandwidth is a airbone thing only
[16:34] <RocketBoy> I'll see if I can find a duty cycle definition on the ofcom site
[16:36] <RocketBoy> the 25Khz means the deviation has to be constarined to significantly less than the TX3H will let you do
[16:36] <RocketBoy> (by reducing the peak to peak voltage swing)
[16:37] <jcoxon> bbl
[16:37] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[16:38] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy how do I work out my bandwidth?
[16:38] <RocketBoy> but the actual bandwidth will depend on the FM deviation and modulating signal
[16:39] <RocketBoy> Carlson rule is the generally accepted method of estimating the bandwidth
[16:39] <rjharrison_> Is it the distance between a 0 and a 1
[16:39] <rjharrison_> Hum obv not
[16:39] <RocketBoy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_bandwidth_rule
[16:40] <RocketBoy> so for example 10KHz deviation and a 2.5KHz modulating signal would give 25KHz bandwidth
[16:41] <RocketBoy> so on the TX3H 10KHz is about 1V peak to peak
[16:41] <RocketBoy> (deviation)
[16:42] <RocketBoy> so if you were using two tones the higher of wich is 2.5KHz then aim for 1V p-p drive into the TX3H data pin
[16:43] <RocketBoy> (I have been using that in the 868Mhz packet testing)
[16:44] <RocketBoy> (1200baud packet uses 1200Hz and 2200Hz tones)
[16:51] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: what processor speed are you using for your PWM sound?
[16:53] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:53] <rjharrison_> 1mhz
[16:54] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy !mhz internal clock
[16:55] <rjharrison_> I'll have a look with a scope to see the fluctuation
[16:58] juxta (i=fourtytw@122-49-151-208.ip.adam.com.au) left irc: No route to host
[17:36] darknesslord_ (n=darkness@201.166.153.253) left irc: "2nibbles!!"
[17:43] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) joined #highaltitude.
[17:50] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) got netsplit.
[17:50] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) got netsplit.
[17:50] mct (n=mct@unaffiliated/mct) got netsplit.
[17:50] solexious (n=quassel@cyarnold.vps.bitfolk.com) got netsplit.
[17:50] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) got netsplit.
[17:50] jasonb (n=jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) got netsplit.
[17:50] kleinjt (n=kleinjt@tarsonis.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu) got netsplit.
[17:50] KingJ (n=KingJ-FN@oops.i.forgot.to.set.my.hostmask.kingj.net) got netsplit.
[17:50] jontyw (n=jontyw@jonty.co.uk) got netsplit.
[17:50] borism (n=boris@213.35.232.204) got netsplit.
[17:50] smealum (n=smealum@82.243.132.64) got netsplit.
[17:50] jonsowman (i=js843@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) got netsplit.
[17:50] ms7821 (n=Mark@78.86.165.225) got netsplit.
[17:50] russss (n=russ@unaffiliated/russss) got netsplit.
[17:50] Tiger^ (i=tygrys@moo.pl) got netsplit.
[17:50] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[18:00] borism (n=boris@213.35.232.204) returned to #highaltitude.
[18:00] smealum (n=smealum@82.243.132.64) returned to #highaltitude.
[18:00] jonsowman (i=js843@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[18:00] ms7821 (n=Mark@78.86.165.225) returned to #highaltitude.
[18:00] russss (n=russ@unaffiliated/russss) returned to #highaltitude.
[18:00] Tiger^ (i=tygrys@moo.pl) returned to #highaltitude.
[18:00] mct (n=mct@entropia.netisland.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:01] KingJ (n=KingJ-FN@oops.i.forgot.to.set.my.hostmask.kingj.net) got lost in the net-split.
[18:01] jontyw (n=jontyw@jonty.co.uk) got lost in the net-split.
[18:01] solexious (n=quassel@cyarnold.vps.bitfolk.com) got lost in the net-split.
[18:01] kleinjt (n=kleinjt@tarsonis.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu) got lost in the net-split.
[18:01] jasonb (n=jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) got lost in the net-split.
[18:01] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) got lost in the net-split.
[18:01] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) got lost in the net-split.
[18:01] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) got lost in the net-split.
[18:03] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] jasonb (n=jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] kleinjt (n=kleinjt@tarsonis.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] KingJ (n=KingJ-FN@oops.i.forgot.to.set.my.hostmask.kingj.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] jontyw (n=jontyw@jonty.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:09] jasonb (n=jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Success
[18:16] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) left irc: "Leaving"
[18:31] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:31] <jcoxon> hey all
[18:33] GeekShadow (n=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[18:35] <jcoxon> Bill brown launch
[18:35] <jcoxon> from Albany
[18:37] herabot (n=herabot@78.146.197.107) joined #highaltitude.
[18:49] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison
[18:50] <rjharrison> Pong
[18:51] <rjharrison> Good timing just walked in
[18:51] <rjharrison> been watchin spiderman 2 with kids
[18:51] <rjharrison> jcoxon pong
[18:51] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[18:51] <jcoxon> can you re-set up my account on the server
[18:51] <rjharrison> Sure has it gone
[18:52] <jcoxon> might try and track bill browns balloon using globaltuner
[18:53] <rjharrison> pm
[19:04] <sbasuita> hallo
[19:04] <sbasuita> passed my foundation
[19:05] <sbasuita> : )
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:07] <rjharrison> Dr who is on
[19:07] <rjharrison> sbasuita 98% or 100%]
[19:07] <jcoxon> hmmm can't seem to hear it
[19:07] <jcoxon> guess i've missed the flight
[19:07] <rjharrison> Dr Who :)
[19:09] <sbasuita> rjharrison, got one wrong
[19:09] <sbasuita> was a tricky question - nobody got it right
[19:16] <jonsowman> dr who any good?
[19:17] jasonb (n=jasonb@m3f0536d0.tmodns.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:21] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what was the trick question?
[19:21] <DanielRichman> btw I'm taking the exam 6th december
[19:21] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, cool
[19:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, how should an external antenna be mounted
[19:22] <DanielRichman> *tricky question
[19:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, and there were several options that could have been right
[19:22] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, hehe. What were they, out of interest?
[19:22] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[19:22] <sbasuita> but it was giong for the safety angle
[19:22] <sbasuita> so the correct one was 'out of reach'
[19:22] <DanielRichman> lulsafety
[19:22] <sbasuita> but i disregarded that
[19:22] <sbasuita> because on the day we'd set up an antenna at ground level on a railing xD
[19:23] <sbasuita> also it was raining
[19:23] <sbasuita> so i discounted waterproofed
[19:23] <sbasuita> so i put 'horizontally'
[19:23] Action: sbasuita goes to sign up to ofcom
[19:23] <sbasuita> going to try and get an m3
[19:24] <DanielRichman> haha. You're probs better off going for m6ssb
[19:24] <DanielRichman> though considering your initials are shared with single side band you might not get anything -ssb
[19:25] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I signed up to ofcom; they claimed to generate me a username and send it in an email which I never got.... i guessed the username they gave me first try though
[19:26] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i thought they send you a letter
[19:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, oh? I thought they send an email
[19:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, either way, I guessed it -.-
[19:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, tell me when you've signed up, if the sign up process claims to send you a letter or an email
[19:29] sbasuita_ (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[19:29] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: Nick collision from services.
[19:29] Nick change: sbasuita_ -> sbasuita
[19:31] <DanielRichman> ping sbasuita
[19:32] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, hell
[19:32] <sbasuita> o
[19:33] <sbasuita> https://services.ofcom.org.uk/
[19:33] <sbasuita> do i register there?
[19:33] <DanielRichman> yes
[19:34] <sbasuita> jesus they have so many titles
[19:34] <sbasuita> i guess i'm 'master'?
[19:34] <sbasuita> or mr
[19:34] <sbasuita> :/
[19:35] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i went for Mr
[19:35] <DanielRichman> they ask for your DOB anyway
[19:35] <DanielRichman> so no big deal
[19:35] <sbasuita> think i'll just go for mr
[19:36] <sbasuita> yet another password to remember....
[19:37] <DanielRichman> hmm
[19:37] <DanielRichman> so? does it claim to post you something or email you something?
[19:38] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, dunno
[19:38] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, wow, you need upper/lower/numeric in your password
[19:38] <sbasuita> or maybe that's what's allowed
[19:38] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no, you need some uppercase in there
[19:38] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, they definitly claim to email me, yet no email...
[19:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, well your email is kind of broken...
[19:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, my email is fine.
[19:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you joined the BARC mailing list?
[19:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, ages ago
[19:43] <sbasuita> Hate forgotten password questions
[19:43] <sbasuita> It's not actually going to be a question about me, else somebody else could answer it. But if only I know the answer, then its a secret - why would i tell ofcom?
[19:46] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i just wrote "This is insecure" in the question box, and thrashed around on the keyboard for 60 chars in the answer box
[19:48] <sbasuita> "We will send your username to your registered email address - please check your spam filters to allow this email through."
[19:48] jasonb (n=jasonb@m3f0536d0.tmodns.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[19:48] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i checked /var/log/mail.log; not a whisper
[19:49] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, haven't got any mail
[19:49] Nick change: grummund_ -> grummund
[19:50] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, they were doing maintenance on 14/15th
[19:50] <DanielRichman> so maybe they b0rk3d it
[19:50] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, have you seen the Numb3rs description of IRC?
[19:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no
[19:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you're not doing rs are you?
[19:50] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, he didn't give us our books back
[19:51] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, so I've designated a hole for homework to die in
[19:51] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, exactly
[19:52] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ
[19:52] <DanielRichman> although I thoroughly recommend other people to watch it; hilarious
[19:53] <sbasuita> wtf
[19:55] <sbasuita> Dad is in california next week
[19:55] <sbasuita> so i guess radio stuff is cheap out there
[19:55] <sbasuita> might get an 817
[19:55] <sbasuita> dunno
[20:00] <DanielRichman> :o
[20:00] <DanielRichman> what date?
[20:00] <DanielRichman> sbasuita,
[20:00] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, monday till monday
[20:00] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no idea about stores though
[20:01] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, which monday?
[20:01] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, this monday
[20:01] <sbasuita> tomorrow
[20:02] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, :o
[20:02] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, well I guess you have all week to decide
[20:06] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it's a lot of money
[20:06] GeekShadow (n=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: "The cake is a lie !"
[20:07] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i hadn't noticed.
[20:11] <sbasuita> 817 going in LA for 320 quid
[20:11] jasonb (n=jasonb@m3f0536d0.tmodns.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:11] <sbasuita> But then in america they add tax at the till...
[20:11] <sbasuita> not sure how much that is
[20:13] <sbasuita> works out about 340 pounds
[20:15] hornblower (n=ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:19] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:20] hornblower (n=ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) left #highaltitude.
[20:20] edmoore (n=ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:22] <jonsowman> hi edmoore
[20:22] <edmoore> hi jonsowman
[20:23] <edmoore> have had a bit of an afternoon
[20:23] <jonsowman> ah dear, whys that?
[20:23] <edmoore> how was stuff in the lab?
[20:23] <edmoore> friend had a bit of a crisis
[20:23] <jonsowman> was good, everyone had a play with arduinos etc
[20:24] <jonsowman> going to put together some breakout boards for those old uBlox 1s henry bought ages ago
[20:24] <jonsowman> crisis over?
[20:25] <edmoore> oh god
[20:25] <edmoore> they pull about 250mA
[20:25] <edmoore> yep
[20:25] <jonsowman> yeh, only for people to play with
[20:26] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:26] <jonsowman> otherwise they're going to sit there forever and never get used
[20:26] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[20:27] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[20:28] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[20:28] <jcoxon> what antenna do you use with your lassens?
[20:29] <edmoore> hfl - sma adaptor, then whatever is lying around
[20:29] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[20:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you said ~340 quid; is that for the 817 or 817ND?
[20:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what about the 857? because to be fair, the 817 is nice and small but has no beef.
[20:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, nd
[20:30] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, really! that's niice.
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i'm not that bothered about dx
[20:30] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, still..... 5 watts is 5 watts
[20:30] <edmoore> you can do a lot with 5W!
[20:30] <jcoxon> edmoore, hmmm, might need to get one of those - i've got the ceramic + short cable and hfl
[20:30] <DanielRichman> i know
[20:30] <edmoore> jcoxon: if you use that one, def pop a ground plane underneath it
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you can always get an amplifier later
[20:31] <sbasuita> If we buy three we could get a nice discount
[20:31] <edmoore> how much juice has the 857?
[20:31] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, true. Anyway, as i said, you got until next sunday to decide really
[20:31] <sbasuita> edmoore, 50 i think
[20:31] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, three!?
[20:31] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, jcoxon want's one?
[20:31] <sbasuita> maybe not
[20:31] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, jcoxon was talking to edmoore about a convo you missed while rebooting
[20:32] <edmoore> really?
[20:32] <edmoore> oh
[20:32] <jcoxon> edmoore, i'm thinking that as the gps will get cold an adapter is probably best - so that i can embedded the actual module
[20:32] <edmoore> sure
[20:32] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, anyway... talk tomorrow
[20:32] <jcoxon> though for now will look for a GP
[20:33] <edmoore> just some ali foil :)
[20:33] <jcoxon> hehe we ran out last week :-p
[20:34] <edmoore> helpful!
[20:34] <jcoxon> just got some junk metal
[20:34] <rjharrison> jcoxon what are you after re lassens
[20:35] <jcoxon> hfl to sma connector
[20:35] <rjharrison> I have one of those
[20:35] <jcoxon> spare?
[20:35] <rjharrison> http://www.dpieshop.com/trimble-iqsq-sma-transition-cable-hfl-to-sma-adapter-p-236.html?osCsid=parr6uk6ijsn8aucri6maiueq0
[20:36] <edmoore> DanielRichman: actually, on 5W I have found that I can hear better than I can shout
[20:37] <edmoore> with a mag-mount I can hear the repeater before i can key it on, when driving towards it from about 50 miles away
[20:37] <DanielRichman> edmoore, but if you can do 50W you can always tune it down to 5
[20:37] <jcoxon> 5w is pretty damn good
[20:37] <DanielRichman> I totally agree; I just don't wanna regret not getting something with more power in it
[20:37] <edmoore> but i think my setup could do with a bit more power to be balanced
[20:37] <jcoxon> rjharrison, yeah
[20:37] <edmoore> so i can talk as soon as i can hear
[20:37] <DanielRichman> The advantage of 5W i guess is that you can slap a yagi on the roof and not get bad EMC problems?
[20:38] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, not really
[20:38] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you don't run full power if you have it
[20:38] <edmoore> well, I'm saying that for driving around, I'd like a bit more than 5W
[20:38] <DanielRichman> ahh, right
[20:38] <edmoore> but not much more than that
[20:38] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yeah, true.
[20:38] <edmoore> as i can hear the repeater transmitting ok but don't have a enough power to activate it, when i'm on the limits of range
[20:39] <edmoore> for a balanced setup you want to be able to talk back about as well as you can hear
[20:39] <edmoore> if you go too far the other way you become what hams call a 'crocodile' - all mouth and no ears
[20:39] <DanielRichman> hmm
[20:40] <DanielRichman> To be fair, the 817 isn't small enough to go in your pocket so the size step up to 857 isn't all that bad
[20:40] <edmoore> i think a 70cm amp would be an excellent hobby project though :)
[20:40] <sbasuita> Just use an amp
[20:40] <edmoore> rjharrison seems to have the entire range of portable yaesu's - maybe ask him what he reckons
[20:40] <rjharrison> Can I say that I use the 817 every day in my car and it does me fine on the local repeater
[20:41] <rjharrison> The 857 is good too and is not much bigger
[20:41] <edmoore> see when i drive out from cambridge tuned into GB3PY, with my mag mount, I definitely loose the ability to key in before i loose the ability to hear
[20:41] <DanielRichman> I'm leaning towards the 857, if i were to get anything
[20:41] <rjharrison> I would leave the 897 out as its too big for mobile work
[20:41] <EI5GTB> bgood evening
[20:42] <DanielRichman> The 817 comes with a recharagable battery, doesnt it? Does the 857?
[20:42] <rjharrison> Not 100% sure
[20:42] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, they were using a power supply at the course
[20:42] <sbasuita> Besides, the 857 is a big price step up
[20:42] <DanielRichman> it's like £100?
[20:42] <DanielRichman> £100 out of £400
[20:42] <sbasuita> more like 800 dolalrs
[20:42] <rjharrison> Yep with a decent whip I would sticj with the 817
[20:43] <DanielRichman> compared to 817 at what dollars?
[20:43] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 500 ish
[20:43] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ah, I see
[20:43] <DanielRichman> more like £200 step up then.
[20:43] <rjharrison> jcoxon, I do seem to have a connector I could spare for a while
[20:43] <edmoore> i don't think the difference would be worth £200
[20:43] <edmoore> the 817 is a super radio
[20:44] <edmoore> and an amp is a good project if you want some more grunt :)
[20:44] <sbasuita> I would imagine an amp is a pretty trivial accessory?
[20:44] <jcoxon> i agree with edmoore
[20:44] <jcoxon> rjharrison, ummm i might take you up on that
[20:45] <jcoxon> once i've fitted my backup battery will see how the lassen performs and deicde
[20:45] <edmoore> you can buy them if you want, though they're not that cheap as it's such a major component of a radio. you'd learn a lot from building one
[20:45] <DanielRichman> yeah
[20:45] <DanielRichman> what about antennae?
[20:45] <edmoore> diy!
[20:45] <DanielRichman> I was interested in mounting a motorised roof yagi
[20:46] <edmoore> antennas are fun to build
[20:46] <DanielRichman> purely because it sounds like an awesome project
[20:46] <rjharrison> Ok I'll pop it in the post tomorrow for you
[20:46] <edmoore> that would be an awesome project
[20:46] <edmoore> magnets from old hard discs
[20:46] <rjharrison> Would like it back oneday if payload returns
[20:46] <edmoore> maybe stack some yagis
[20:46] <DanielRichman> :P
[20:46] <rjharrison> Not very fussed really as only 5 quid
[20:46] <DanielRichman> surely, if i start mounting yagis THAT big i'd need council permission?
[20:47] <jcoxon> thanks
[20:47] <edmoore> DanielRichman / sbasuita http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAESU-FT-817ND-HF-VHF-UHF-Transceiver-FT817-HAM-FT-817_W0QQitemZ140359825679QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item20ae18f90f#ht_1755wt_987
[20:47] <edmoore> DanielRichman: easier not to tell anyone
[20:47] <edmoore> 70cm yagis look a bit like TV aerials anyway
[20:48] <DanielRichman> edmoore, hehehehe
[20:48] <DanielRichman> edmoore, though, the bidding there is going to shoot up I imagine
[20:48] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, how good is your dad at haggling?
[20:48] <edmoore> probs
[20:49] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, he works in sales and marketing
[20:49] <sbasuita> not retail
[20:49] <sbasuita> like thousands to millions
[20:49] <sbasuita> ; )
[20:49] <rjharrison> edmoore any news back from the conference booking place?
[20:49] <sbasuita> i'd imagine he's pretty good
[20:49] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, hehe
[20:49] <DanielRichman> edmoore, bit worried about waterproofing
[20:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, waterproofing?
[20:50] <edmoore> rjharrison: I'm afriad I had to postpone that meeting - someone offered me the last available ticket to see Hamelin play the Alkan Symphonie for solo piano at Wigmore hall, and that's not the kind of thing you can turn down
[20:50] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, well if you're roof mounting your yagi....
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> Oh - house roof.
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> I thought you meant car roof.
[20:51] <edmoore> jcoxon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n56OZBbpi5Y
[20:51] <edmoore> this guy do the entire symphonie on friday
[20:51] <edmoore> it was pretty breath-taking
[20:51] <DanielRichman> My room is right next to the chimney. If I was particularly interested in sinking money into servos I could have it hide in there and thunderbirds-style-emerge for use.
[20:53] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, do you want me to ask my dad to buy a radio for you from california?
[20:54] <jcoxon> edmoore, :-)
[20:54] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, not just yet.
[20:54] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, are you going to get one?
[20:54] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, if i can persuade myd ad
[20:54] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, btw you don't really have all week
[20:54] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, he's working
[20:55] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so he'll probs do shopping at the weekend
[20:55] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yeah, ok. But I won't decide right now, if that's ok
[20:55] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, next weekend?
[20:55] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, but you might want a specific store
[20:55] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, and he'll be moving south-north
[20:55] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, okey. I'll know by mid week for sure.
[20:57] <edmoore> so I am changing my car next month. The question is, which car (with a 1.4 engine) is a: good and b: has a sufficiently un-slopey dash (or ideally a shelf) that is good for carrying radios and an eeepc?
[20:57] <sbasuita> edmoore, you could invest in lots of blue tack ;)
[20:58] <edmoore> I don't think fergus likes having the eee mounted on the passenger side air-bag in the current car
[20:58] <DanielRichman> What do you mean, you can't get a car with a built-in gps-eepc-radio?
[21:00] highaltitude (i=836f0142@gateway/web/freenode/x-wzvaqcrjtvzskoaa) joined #highaltitude.
[21:00] <rjharrison> lol
[21:00] <rjharrison> I wonder what the velocity of the eee would be on imact
[21:00] <rjharrison> impact
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> I imagine warranty voiding.
[21:01] <rjharrison> Ogg topic but I have spent alot of time building this. You can see the triband 6 2 and 70cm antena on top of the house in the backgrund next to the open velux
[21:01] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/various/Greenhouse.jpg
[21:03] <highaltitude> nice work!
[21:03] <highaltitude> (and the greenhouse)
[21:03] <rjharrison> hehe
[21:03] <highaltitude> oh, form-entry fail
[21:04] <sbasuita> The collective voice of uk balloon operators has spoken
[21:04] Nick change: highaltitude -> edmoore_
[21:04] <rjharrison> Who is that
[21:04] <jcoxon> haha
[21:04] <rjharrison> lol
[21:04] <rjharrison> Cool
[21:06] <DanielRichman> so is there any possible difference in a UK 817 and a US 817?
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> Locked-out bands?
[21:07] <jcoxon> oh they'll be freq differences
[21:07] <edmoore_> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yaesu-FT-790-mk-1-Faulty_W0QQitemZ320449272277QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item4a9c43d9d5#ht_500wt_1002
[21:07] <jcoxon> but i think the US one will be more open
[21:07] <edmoore_> this could be useful for someone
[21:07] <edmoore_> DanielRichman: mods.dk
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> Probably a good idea to compare the manuals
[21:09] <DanielRichman> Hmm.
[21:09] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host86-151-70-219.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.15/2009101601]"
[21:09] Action: DanielRichman doesn't fancy a warranty voiding mod
[21:09] <rjharrison> There is no need to mod the 817
[21:09] <DanielRichman> I suppose if you do want to warrantify it, the UK guys will tell you go take a hike since it's a US model?
[21:10] <rjharrison> Well unless you want to wideband it
[21:10] <sbasuita> Does that mean Tx on all freqs?
[21:10] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yes, you can go crash some planes.
[21:10] <sbasuita> get in
[21:10] <sbasuita> But seriously, you can't 'disrupt critical services' with an 817 and a mod
[21:10] <DanielRichman> "Preparing to land..." "DO A BARREL ROLL!"
[21:10] <rjharrison> KL318 heavy to runway 3
[21:11] <sbasuita> Else the bad guys would be doing it all the time
[21:11] <DanielRichman> edmoore_, do you reckon that the ebay 817 you linked will shoot up soon?
[21:11] <sbasuita> It's the same with phones in hospitals and on planes
[21:11] <edmoore_> you almost certainly could cause havoc
[21:11] <rjharrison> yep it may
[21:11] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, rule no. 1) Bad guys are either thick or in the carribean
[21:11] <edmoore_> when i was in richmond the other day i could hear heathrow landing approach loud and clear
[21:11] <edmoore_> between planes and ATC
[21:11] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, phones on planes aren't disallowed for the reasons they claim
[21:11] <DanielRichman> or, the reasons they imply
[21:12] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, are you saying i'm thick because i'm not in the carribean?
[21:12] <edmoore_> only the law was stopping me making a yagi and causing problems. there were no techical limitations
[21:12] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you're not a bad guy, i'm sorry
[21:12] <DanielRichman> Besides, I guess, whatever you do, the guys in the heathrow tower probably have a bigger radio than you
[21:12] <DanielRichman> a MUCH bigger radio.
[21:12] <DanielRichman> your 5w is going to do nothing.
[21:13] <edmoore_> i somewhat dispute that
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: work out the squares.
[21:13] <edmoore_> 5W down a yagi with line of sight should be plenty strong enough
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: 1/100 the distance = what power benefit?
[21:14] <DanielRichman> Suppose
[21:14] <sbasuita> I'm looking at the 817ND manual - only seems to be extra features for us version, no mention of uk except in a list of worldwide addresses
[21:14] <sbasuita> you get two extra bands and a menu quirk
[21:14] <DanielRichman> Interesting
[21:14] <DanielRichman> What about warranty claims?
[21:15] <DanielRichman> if it develops a problem....
[21:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you can still claim i guess
[21:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, just need to get out there
[21:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, my dad goes pretty regularly
[21:15] <DanielRichman> Not ideal, though.
[21:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, but that is a valid issue
[21:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you're saving probably 80 quid
[21:15] <DanielRichman> though, to be fair, the 817 is fairly solid
[21:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so you could afford to repair it
[21:16] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, uk price is £430
[21:16] <DanielRichman> ish.
[21:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i reckon we'll save over 100 then
[21:16] <sbasuita> if he haggles cause he's buying two
[21:16] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, well, it's fair to say that I'm very interested in the idea
[21:16] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, we'll talk tomorrow?
[21:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, dunno
[21:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we could just talk today ;)
[21:17] Action: DanielRichman starts a waave
[21:17] edmoore (n=ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[21:18] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, y
[21:18] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, for fun!
[21:18] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, argh fine
[21:19] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, if you insist we can stick to this "primitive chat program"
[21:19] <DanielRichman> did you watch that vid?
[21:19] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, ye
[21:30] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:31] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left #highaltitude.
[21:32] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[21:45] jasonb (n=jasonb@m3f0536d0.tmodns.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[21:46] edmoore_ (i=836f0142@gateway/web/freenode/x-wzvaqcrjtvzskoaa) left irc: Ping timeout: 180 seconds
[21:54] jasonb (n=jasonb@m4f0536d0.tmodns.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:58] <sbasuita> So, does anybody think US->UK compatibility will be an issue for the 817? (I'm sending a query to yaesu anyway)
[22:03] <sbasuita> Actually, from the manual: Frequency Range:
[22:03] <sbasuita> 87.5 MHz-108 MHz (EU)
[22:03] <sbasuita> 108 MHz-154 MHz (USA)
[22:03] <sbasuita> : /
[22:03] <sbasuita> DanielRichman
[22:03] <sbasuita> (that's receive)
[22:04] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, indeed (see wave)
[22:04] <sbasuita> Is that important?
[22:08] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, This is slightly confusing, just above that it has "76 MHz-108 MHz (WFM only) "
[22:08] <sbasuita> Which includes the range for 'EU' after that
[22:11] <DanielRichman> ping rjharrison
[22:11] <Randomskk> sbasuita: congrats on your foundation test
[22:11] <sbasuita> Randomskk, thanks
[22:11] jasonb (n=jasonb@m4f0536d0.tmodns.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[22:11] Action: Randomskk is also looking for a radio :p
[22:11] <Randomskk> going for intermediate?
[22:11] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, did you say you used the rear-connector to hook your 817 up to the computer sound card? which one is it ? Data or ACC?
[22:11] <sbasuita> Randomskk, maybe - haven't thought about it much
[22:12] <Randomskk> cool
[22:12] <Randomskk> it's pretty easy really, not that much more in it than foundation
[22:12] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[22:12] <Randomskk> the callsign is obviously much worse, but you do get something like 50W tx?
[22:12] <Randomskk> or 40W or whatever
[22:12] <Randomskk> 50W.
[22:12] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-163-133-203.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:12] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:12] <Randomskk> yo
[22:13] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, do you have an 817?
[22:14] <Laurenceb> no
[22:14] <DanielRichman> ah ok; d/w
[22:14] <Laurenceb> I've got a pcr-1000
[22:14] <DanielRichman> i had a question about the outputs on the back
[22:15] <Laurenceb> ah
[22:20] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "Toons.hu webchat"
[22:23] <DanielRichman> ping sbasuita
[22:23] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, mmm
[22:23] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i'ma see you tomorrow
[22:32] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precooled_jet_engine <- interesting stuff
[22:43] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: "Leaving"
[22:49] simon_MPFH (n=simon@tiger.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[22:53] darknesslord_ (n=darkness@201.166.153.253) joined #highaltitude.
[22:58] <sbasuita> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAESU-FT-817ND-HF-VHF-UHF-Transceiver-FT817-HAM-FT-817_W0QQitemZ140359825679QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item20ae18f90f
[22:58] <sbasuita> How high will this go?
[23:07] darknesslord_ (n=darkness@201.166.153.253) left irc: "2nibbles!!"
[23:55] <MikeMc> depends on what balloon you use and how much helium
[23:55] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[23:56] <MikeMc> lol
[23:56] <MikeMc> sorry
[23:58] <Laurenceb> heh
[23:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.arcaspace.ro/
[23:59] <Laurenceb> bet they never launch it
[23:59] <Laurenceb> if it even exists
[00:00] --- Mon Nov 16 2009