highaltitude.log.20091111

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[00:02] <SpeedEvil> And did too, many tanks!
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[00:22] <rjharrison> bed
[00:22] <rjharrison> night night
[00:22] <rjharrison> jcoxon no work tomorrow?
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[00:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.diviner.ucla.edu/gallery/figure_3b_full_res.jpg - dark side of the moon.
[02:01] <natrium42> Far Side! :P
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[07:44] <MikeMc> Mornin g all
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[15:57] <Laurenceb> hello
[15:58] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8353878.stm
[15:58] <Laurenceb> most epic hack of all time?
[16:00] <russss> it's a bit crap if your electricity grid can't withstand the failure of one power plant
[16:01] <russss> even if that power plant is 13GW...
[16:02] <Laurenceb> people are saying someone got onto the itranet at Intiapu
[16:02] <Laurenceb> *intranet
[16:02] <russss> ouch
[16:03] <Laurenceb> someone got access to a similar system at another Brazilian plant a few months back
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[16:04] <russss> pretty awesome picture from wikipedia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Itaipu_Décembre_2007_-_Intérieur_du_barrage.jpg
[16:06] <Laurenceb> itwas the largest hydro plant before three gorges
[16:09] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Itaipu_D%C3%A9cembre_2007_-_Conduites_d%27Eau.jpg
[16:10] <Laurenceb> wow thats just the space between two penstock pipes
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[16:10] <russss> yeah if you look at the full picture of the dam
[16:11] <russss> there's like an 8-storey building built into the frontt
[16:11] <russss> which you can hardly see
[16:11] <russss> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Itaipu_Décembre_2007_-_Vue_Générale.jpg
[16:15] <Laurenceb> reminds me of Churchill college :P
[16:15] <russss> heheh
[16:19] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATREX <- thats what they need to put on skylon
[16:20] <Laurenceb> looks like they have made a lot more progress than Reaction engines as well
[16:23] <Laurenceb> "The vehicle is dropped from an altitude of 40 km by a high altitude balloon" maybe we could help them with launch :D
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[18:23] <Laurenceb> http://picasaweb.google.ro/arcaorbital/Constanta#5398538587000083442
[18:23] Action: Laurenceb is confused
[18:24] <Laurenceb> I dont usnedstand how they could be retarded enough to actually build that
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> see x33
[18:27] <Laurenceb> this is pendulum fallacy gone mad
[18:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.arcaspace.ro/
[18:29] <Laurenceb> they say they actually want to launch it
[18:29] <Laurenceb> I dont get it
[18:32] <Laurenceb> http://spacefellowship.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8831&start=15
[18:32] Action: Laurenceb remains unconvinced
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[18:37] <Laurenceb> lol @ the sim results
[18:37] <Laurenceb> very expensive way to tie knots
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[19:14] <Laurenceb> http://home.earthlink.net/~altaccel/trimode/arla-int.htm
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[19:44] <Jon_Apex> help
[19:44] <Jon_Apex> whoops, ignore that
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[21:02] <rjharrison> Evening all
[21:03] <rjharrison> Hey RocketBoy the 869's have arrived
[21:04] <rjharrison> DanielRichman has the camera finally arrived?
[21:04] <rjharrison> Hey natrium42
[21:06] <RocketBoy> cool
[21:07] <DanielRichman> RocketBoy, if you excuse the skype copy spam:
[21:07] <rjharrison> I still have the code to drive the 169's
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Daniel Richman: <rjharrison> DanielRichman has the camera finally arrived?
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Alex Breton: it sure has ;-)
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Daniel Richman: WHAT
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Daniel Richman: IT HAS ARRIVED
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Daniel Richman: FOR REAL?
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Alex Breton: sure it has
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Alex Breton: today
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Daniel Richman: Finally, i have some GOOD news for rjharrison
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Alex Breton: we can build over the weekend no prob
[21:07] <rjharrison> hehe
[21:07] <rjharrison> lol
[21:07] <rjharrison> DanielRichman great
[21:07] <rjharrison> Was it the a560?
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[21:08] <rjharrison> Hi g8khw-iPhone
[21:08] <rjharrison> You playing with the iphone
[21:09] <rjharrison> RocketBoy I'm going to do some tests tonight with the freeze spray and the TX
[21:09] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, yea, the a560; Also, Alex has some UV filters for us to use so we're all set
[21:09] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, and he has insulation; and the payload tests were 100% success.
[21:09] <DanielRichman> long story short: we're on a roll
[21:10] <rjharrison> Yep
[21:10] <rjharrison> So the next problem will be the wx :)
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[21:12] <g8khw-iPhone_> Ha - I left my iPhone on in my jacket pocket
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[21:13] <rjharrison> DanielRichman You have at least 2 weeks to build your payload looking at the weather
[21:14] <rjharrison> You can't really predict that far along
[21:14] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, off the top of your head, do you know if there is a good TX-antenna building guide? I know the basics of a 1/4 wavelength gndplane
[21:14] <rjharrison> Ica n make one and adda photo
[21:14] <rjharrison> Basically it's very forgiving
[21:14] <rjharrison> radials 17cm
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[21:15] <rjharrison> driven element 17*0.95
[21:15] <DanielRichman> Why so 0.95?
[21:15] <DanielRichman> And shouldn't it be 17.5?
[21:16] <rjharrison> I used to be really carefull about antennae and then I saw what the others were using. Not much better than a piece of wire soldered to the tx pin
[21:16] <DanielRichman> Naturally 70/4 is a horribly inaccurate representation of the correct wavelength; yet still
[21:16] <rjharrison> 70/4 Yep
[21:16] <DanielRichman> Why do you suggest 0.95*17 instead of just 17?
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[21:17] <rjharrison> it's actually (70/4)*0.95
[21:17] <rjharrison> My mistake I rememebered it being 17cm
[21:18] <rjharrison> DanielRichman do you have an sma on the board
[21:18] <RocketBoy> 300/f in MHz is a good way of calculating wavelenth
[21:19] <RocketBoy> then /4 for a 1/4 wave
[21:19] <DanielRichman> Indeed RocketBoy
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[21:19] <DanielRichman> sorry rjharrison, sma what?
[21:20] <RocketBoy> 0.95 is a fudge factor - the resonant length varies with element thickness - 0.95 is for relativly thin radiators
[21:21] <DanielRichman> Ok, thanks
[21:22] <DanielRichman> RocketBoy, How much does it vary by length?
[21:22] <DanielRichman> * width
[21:22] <DanielRichman> I guess that technically we should cut it long then go measure the SWR and stuff... but don't have anything to measure it with
[21:23] <rjharrison> http://uk.farnell.com/tyco-electronics/1-1478967-0/socket-sma-panel-launcher/dp/1056376?Ntt=1-1478967-0
[21:23] <rjharrison> DanielRichman this is a good base for a 1/4 wave if you want to put it to an SMA connector
[21:23] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, oh right; no we don't
[21:24] <rjharrison> I'm sure RocketBoy would aggree that the antenna can be very flexable
[21:24] <rjharrison> ans in quite a bit of inacuracy isn't going to matter
[21:24] <RocketBoy> varies quite a lot - for example with wavelength/diameter of 50 its 0.85
[21:24] <DanielRichman> Okey. We also ought to build a yagi... eugh
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[21:24] <rjharrison> DanielRichman are you going to chase
[21:25] <rjharrison> I don't think either RocketBoy or I got the yagi out this w/e
[21:25] <rjharrison> Yagi is very usefull though
[21:25] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, yes we will be chasing
[21:25] <rjharrison> Might be easier to borrow one
[21:25] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, we asked the local ham group (BARC) but i don't think they have one
[21:26] <rjharrison> Edmoore may lend you onr
[21:26] <rjharrison> one
[21:26] <DanielRichman> we got two weeks to fix that stuff
[21:26] <rjharrison> True
[21:26] <RocketBoy> I wouldn't get too hung up on making the antenna exactly right - so long as its somewhere near resonance it'll be OK
[21:26] <DanielRichman> groovy
[21:26] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, do you have an 817?
[21:26] <rjharrison> yep
[21:26] <rjharrison> I love it for HAB
[21:26] <rjharrison> and HAM
[21:27] <DanielRichman> Does it have a SWR meter and/or some sort of protection from screwing the PA (eg. by not connecting an antenna?)
[21:27] <rjharrison> Yep
[21:27] <rjharrison> Both of those well used :)
[21:28] <rjharrison> Infack I so like the 817 I brought another one the other day
[21:28] <DanielRichman> :O
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> sstereo?
[21:29] <DanielRichman> :P
[21:29] <DanielRichman> You could do RDS by having a helmet with two whips and some awesome ears.
[21:29] <rjharrison> backup and to use for chase too
[21:29] <DanielRichman> * RDF
[21:29] <rjharrison> heh
[21:29] <rjharrison> e
[21:30] <DanielRichman> If I get seriously into this HAM thing - which looks likely (getting foundation license as soon as someone runs an exam) - the 817 does look tastey
[21:30] <rjharrison> It's a very nice radio with lots of data modes
[21:30] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, at 5 watts, do you get any EMC issues? Could one mount a yagi on the roof and use that?
[21:30] <rjharrison> Yep
[21:30] <DanielRichman> also, was wondering about fldigi connection - there's something that looks like a PS/2 Connector
[21:30] <rjharrison> A whip is fine though
[21:30] <DanielRichman> labled DATA
[21:30] <DanielRichman> and a data mode
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[21:31] <DanielRichman> what's the significance of each?
[21:31] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
[21:31] <rjharrison> Yep that is good the connector allows you to take a fixed level audio out of the 817
[21:31] <DanielRichman> Do you have to build/buy a cable? Could one gut a keyboard, and solder a 3.5mm jack on the end?
[21:31] <rjharrison> and you can turn the volume up and down with out affecting the imput to the pc
[21:31] <DanielRichman> nice
[21:32] <rjharrison> There is also the earphone socket too
[21:32] <DanielRichman> Which do you use?
[21:32] <rjharrison> The data connector
[21:32] <rjharrison> http://uk.farnell.com/schurter/4850-1610/plug-mini-din-6pole/dp/152209?Ntt=152-209
[21:33] <rjharrison> You will want one of those and an old 2.5 mm jack cable which you cut in 1/2
[21:33] <rjharrison> and solder to the pins on the connector above
[21:33] <DanielRichman> nice
[21:34] <rjharrison> You only need a mono lead but stereo is fine just dump one of the cables
[21:34] <DanielRichman> Recipe: 817; cable; bunch of servos & AVR with YAGI to rotate on the roof; success
[21:34] <rjharrison> Yep scrap the yagi on the roof and stick to a whip
[21:35] <DanielRichman> :(
[21:35] <DanielRichman> but but but
[21:35] <rjharrison> There are 2 antenna connectors on the 817 put the whip on the PL259 or whatever the socket is called
[21:36] <rjharrison> and the yagi on the BNC connector and flip between the 2 if you need too
[21:36] <Randomskk> hurrah
[21:36] Action: Randomskk is now 2E0SKK
[21:36] <rjharrison> I doubt you will
[21:36] <rjharrison> Congratulations Randomskk
[21:36] <Randomskk> bloody hell was finding a 2E callsign that's still available difficult or what
[21:36] <Randomskk> skk remains untaken everywhere I try it though
[21:36] <Randomskk> (I wonder why...)
[21:37] <DanielRichman> Hrmm
[21:37] <Randomskk> also M6AGG
[21:37] <Randomskk> but that was redundant moments after I got it
[21:39] <Laurenceb> gtg, cya all
[21:39] <Randomskk> seeya
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[21:41] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, thanks for info; gtg now
[21:41] <DanielRichman> will update once payload is built
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[21:47] <Spudnik1> Hi
[21:47] <Spudnik1> Anyone there?
[21:47] <Randomskk> hi
[21:47] <Spudnik1> can you help me with a question...
[21:48] <Spudnik1> how do you attach the balloon to the main line?
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[21:49] <Spudnik12> Sorry, I looged out for a second then by accident....
[21:49] <Spudnik12> yeah so, balloon to string attachment?
[21:49] <Randomskk> no idea, I'm afraid. someone here most likely knows.
[21:49] <Spudnik12> ok
[21:49] <Spudnik12> any suggestions who to ask?
[21:50] <Randomskk> most of them just left unfortunately :P
[21:51] <Spudnik12> gutted
[21:51] <Spudnik12> anyone about?
[21:51] <Spudnik12> we are launching tomorrow!
[21:51] <Spudnik12> have a question about ascent/descent rates too..
[21:51] <Randomskk> gaffa tape
[21:52] <Spudnik12> you seal the balloon with gaffa tape too?
[21:52] <Randomskk> would be my last minute suggestion :P
[21:52] <Spudnik12> maybe tie a knot in the balloon too?
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[21:53] <Jon_Apex> tie it with twine, its hard to tie a knot in
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[21:54] <Spudnik19> what do you reckon to the knot?
[21:54] <Jon_Apex> tie it with twine, its hard to tie a knot in
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[21:54] <Spudnik19> Hi Jon
[21:54] <Jon_Apex> hello
[21:54] <Spudnik19> twine?
[21:54] <Jon_Apex> string
[21:54] <Spudnik19> that will be strong enough to seal it>?
[21:54] Nick change: \mct -> mct
[21:54] <Spudnik19> we have some good strong string/very thin rope
[21:55] <Jon_Apex> my method is tie twine round it to seal it, then tie the parachute line around the neck just below it, then fold the bottom of the neck back over and tie another loop of twine around
[21:55] <Spudnik19> we are launching tomorrow!
[21:55] <Jon_Apex> good luck
[21:55] <Jon_Apex> where from?
[21:55] <Spudnik19> also wondering about ascent/decent rates... :)
[21:56] <Spudnik19> south devon... hoping to land near Andover
[21:56] <Jon_Apex> 5 m/s seems to be the general consensus on ascent rate
[21:56] <Spudnik19> we have a 1500g balloon and a 30" parachute, payload = 1.3kg
[21:57] <Spudnik19> decent?
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[21:57] <Spudnik13> sorry got cut off...
[21:57] <Jon_Apex> certainly not miles out
[21:57] <Jon_Apex> have you run it through the CUSF landing prediction software?
[21:57] <Spudnik13> yeah
[21:57] <Jon_Apex> good
[21:57] <Spudnik13> ascent rate 5m/s
[21:57] <Spudnik13> decent 8m/s?????
[21:57] <Jon_Apex> any details on the payload?
[21:58] <Spudnik13> 1.3kg
[21:58] <Randomskk> 1.3kg of what? :P
[21:58] <Jon_Apex> electronics-wise...?
[21:58] <Spudnik13> 30" parachute
[21:58] <Randomskk> Jon_Apex: got my callsign(s) :D
[21:58] <Spudnik13> oh two cameras
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[21:58] <Spudnik13> a potato
[21:58] <Spudnik13> blackberry mobile phone
[21:58] <Jon_Apex> make a nice page for it on the UKHAS wiki after the launch :)
[21:59] <Randomskk> potato?
[21:59] <Spudnik13> yeah: www.spudnik1.co.uk
[21:59] <Jon_Apex> ah lovely
[21:59] <Spudnik13> so does a decent rate of 8m/s sound ok for 1.3kg on a 30" chute?
[22:00] <Randomskk> riverford eh?
[22:00] <Jon_Apex> perhaps a tad fast, but youre not far off
[22:00] <Spudnik13> ok, maybe 7.5m/s?
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> impact at 7.5m/s is double that at 5
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> impact energy
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[22:02] <Jon_Apex> yep 5 m/s is about what you want in general terms
[22:02] <Spudnik13> 5m/s going up right?
[22:03] <Spudnik13> coming down is faster? just trying to get the best prediction possible
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> 7.5m/s is what you get if you drop the payload from around 2.5m
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> Are you comfortable dropping it from ceiling height on a rock?
[22:06] <Spudnik13> yeah not worried about the impact
[22:06] <Spudnik13> as long as the blackberry still works the cameras are not important after landing
[22:06] <Randomskk> you do realise the kids will be devastated if the potato ends up flattened because it hit the ground at 7.5m/s?
[22:07] <Spudnik13> lol, the potato is going to get wrecked.
[22:07] <Jon_Apex> mashed potato
[22:07] <Randomskk> quite so
[22:07] <Spudnik13> thats all ok :)
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> deep frozen potato may be quite robust indeed
[22:07] <Spudnik13> we just want to get a good prediction
[22:07] <Spudnik13> i think it will be ok
[22:08] <Spudnik13> we can't make it fall slower, the payload is set at 1.3kg and the parachute is 30" so thats it really
[22:09] <Spudnik13> if that means it falls at 7.5 m/s then poor old spud lightyear is a gonner!
[22:10] <Spudnik13> ONE MORE QUESTION! - anyone know about using AA Lithium Battaries in a 3.7 volt digital camera????
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[22:11] <rjharrison> Yey Spudnik14 do you have a phone number
[22:11] <rjharrison> Hey
[22:11] <Jon_Apex> look at the datasheet for Energizer L91s
[22:11] <Jon_Apex> thatll tell you IVT characteristics etc
[22:11] Action: sbasuita puts out a call to borrow a well-made 70cm handheld yagi; expects #ha to spread the word ;-)
[22:12] <Spudnik14> its not the batteries we are worried about, its the camera. 2 cells isnt enough voltage, and 3 cells might fry it!
[22:12] <rjharrison> Spudnik14 I wouldn't launch tomorrw if you want to see your payload again
[22:12] <Jon_Apex> it will *probably* have internal regulation as normal AA alkalines can be well above 1.5V when fresh
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> Spudnik14: 3 cells, with a diode
[22:12] <rjharrison> Do you have CAA approval?
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> Spudnik14: is this a lithium camera?
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> Spudnik14: lithium-ion I mean
[22:12] <Spudnik14> why? the predictor says it will land near Tidworth
[22:13] <rjharrison> One sec
[22:13] <Spudnik14> yes, we have CAA approval
[22:13] <rjharrison> Spudnik14 Cool
[22:13] <Spudnik14> thats what i was thinking with the diode
[22:13] <rjharrison> Where are you launching from ?
[22:13] <Spudnik14> south devon
[22:13] <Spudnik14> thanks
[22:14] <Spudnik14> yes a lithium camera
[22:14] <rjharrison> Do you have payload cutdown or are you waiting for burst
[22:14] <Spudnik14> burst
[22:15] <Spudnik14> pretty sure it will have regulator but, they might get too hot!
[22:15] <rjharrison> When you tie off put the para 2/3rds of the way along the string to the balloon
[22:15] <rjharrison> and the balloon at the end of the final 1/3rd
[22:16] <Spudnik14> we have a yargi too
[22:16] <rjharrison> ofthen the balloon comes back too and this can entangle around the payload
[22:16] <Spudnik14> yeah we did that with the para and balloon
[22:16] <rjharrison> Cool
[22:16] <rjharrison> What frequency are you trnamitting one
[22:16] <rjharrison> I may listen in from leeds
[22:17] <Spudnik14> we hope the para works a bit. not too bothered if it comes down quick though.
[22:17] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, good luck guys
[22:17] <rjharrison> Well you don't want to land on the motorway
[22:17] <rjharrison> @)
[22:17] <Spudnik14> the radio transmitter only works a mile or so, its backup for the blackberry
[22:18] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, are you also using the blackberry as your flight computer?
[22:18] <Spudnik14> the blackberry gps is the main thing
[22:19] <Spudnik14> no, we have a PIC 16lc84 microcontroller.
[22:19] <rjharrison> is the TX a beacon or are you sending out gps coords too
[22:19] <Spudnik14> just a beacon
[22:20] <Spudnik14> its not very powerful (3/4 mile range)
[22:20] <rjharrison> well 10mw will do 300 miles from 10k
[22:20] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, what frequency/power?
[22:20] <Spudnik14> backup for the gps
[22:20] <rjharrison> 10 milliwats
[22:20] <Spudnik14> 10k altitude?
[22:21] <rjharrison> yep
[22:21] <rjharrison> 10km
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[22:21] <Spudnik14> the radio beacon isnt going to come on until after it lands, as we dont want to mess up the gps/phone signal and its illegal
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> where are you?
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> Spudnik14:
[22:22] <Spudnik14> we dont know how many milliwats it is
[22:22] <Spudnik14> devon
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> radio beacon during flight at 433MHz is entirely legal - at 10mW
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> you know you will lose phone reception at a few hundred metres?
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Maybe lower if you happen to hit close to a tower
[22:23] <Spudnik14> yeah, but it will work in the ground
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
[22:23] <Spudnik14> *on
[22:23] <Spudnik14> after landing it sends us texts with the coordinates
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Phone coverage may be '100%' - but actually on the ground - even in the best areas - there are holes.
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> It gets a _lot_ better when you stand up - and the phone is at ~2m
[22:24] <edmoore> can someone fill me in
[22:24] <sbasuita> edmoore, Spudnik14 is launching tomorrow
[22:24] <sbasuita> edmoore, from devon
[22:25] <sbasuita> edmoore, radio beacon turns on when it hits the ground. gps co-ords on sms
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[22:25] <edmoore> oh oh
[22:25] <edmoore> Hilary?
[22:25] <Spudnik14> we hear the phone will work at 12,000 metres from fergus
[22:25] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, no chance
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> Nope
[22:26] <edmoore> I think he might have typo'd that
[22:26] <edmoore> maybe 1200m
[22:26] <Spudnik14> sorry 1,200m
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> Phone antennas are - for obvious reasons - aimed flat.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> So they get maximum range
[22:26] <edmoore> hey it's fine, you should get it on the ground to alts are fairly academic
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> pointing out to the sky is a waste of power and reduces coverage
[22:26] <Spudnik14> yes our is.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> I mean - phone tower antennas
[22:27] <Spudnik14> so do you think the blackberry will get signal?
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Wrap the phone in several layers of foil. Leave for half an hour.
[22:27] <Spudnik14> if not we probably wont find it unless we get it within the mile on the radio
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Unwrap, and see how fast it gets signal
[22:27] <edmoore> Spudnik14: do you have a directional antenna?
[22:27] <Randomskk> edmoore: so I got my callsigns, and also found a ic7000 going for 700 second hand, boxed, mint
[22:28] <Spudnik14> good idea
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> What RF module are you using Spudnik14?
[22:28] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, the radio beacon won't really help, because as you say you've got to be really close
[22:28] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, so you want to be following it on the way down
[22:29] <Spudnik14> ok
[22:29] <Spudnik14> we almost totally rely on the blackberry getting signal!
[22:29] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, yes
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> You are using the GPS in the blackberry?
[22:30] <Spudnik14> the RF module is a 14 pin hcmos/ttl oscillator
[22:30] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, i imagine it would be pretty horrible to launch like this: you let go, sit around for hours waiting for the magical text
[22:30] <Spudnik14> 5volts
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> Spudnik14: what freq?
[22:31] <Spudnik14> yes the Blackberry GPS, why?
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> Wondering on the topology
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> you could have the blackberry keep saying the coordinates, and simply listen to them
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> using a 433MHz module
[22:32] <Spudnik14> we dont want a 433MHz module, its low-budget
[22:32] <Spudnik14> we have done it all on £200 inc. gas, balloon, etc
[22:32] <Randomskk> they're not really very expensive, especially if you already have the pic etc
[22:33] <Randomskk> was it a riverford organic potato? did that add much to the cost? :P
[22:33] <Spudnik14> cracked cameras off ebay, a blackberry, second hand electrics, etc
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> They're what - 17 quid?
[22:33] <Spudnik14> lol
[22:33] <Spudnik14> we got that free, my mate works there
[22:33] <Randomskk> hehe
[22:34] <Spudnik14> they have been nice to us :)
[22:34] <Spudnik14> we like them
[22:34] <Spudnik14> so do you think it will work?
[22:34] <Spudnik14> last minute tips please
[22:34] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, don't run out of battery
[22:34] <Spudnik14> we predict an ascent of 5m/s and decent of 7.5 m/s
[22:34] <Spudnik14> we have 3 batteries and a diode.
[22:34] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, i meant charge up phones overnight ;)
[22:35] <Spudnik14> two cameras and a blackberry texting co-ordinates on landing, with back-up radio (1 mile range)
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> what frequency is this radio - and have you in fact checked it?
[22:36] <Spudnik14> i dont know about the radio, sorry i cant asnwer. my mate did all that (he isnt here)
[22:36] <Spudnik14> (he just left)
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> has it been range tested?
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> If you can see the osc module - does it have writing on the top?
[22:36] <Spudnik14> what height will the gps stop working?
[22:36] <Spudnik14> dont have it with me :(
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> It may stop at 60000 feet IIRC
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> It may or may not regain lock on the way down
[22:37] <Spudnik14> what does that mean????
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Some - few - GPSs don't regain lock after they exceed limits until power cycled
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> There are regulatory limits that say if it exceeds 60000 feet and 1000 knots, it must not work.
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> Some screw this up, and make it 1000 knots OR 60000 feet
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> quite a few
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> and some won't produce a position after they exceed the limits until a power cycle
[22:38] <edmoore> I think it will be fine
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> IIRC someone here hit that - on a backup GPS though
[22:38] <edmoore> almost all of them re-lock
[22:38] <edmoore> I wouldn't sweat
[22:38] <Spudnik14> we will have to power cycle the phone
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> yes - most GPSs just - if they exceed limits - once they're not - output again
[22:40] <Spudnik14> shall we power cycle the blackberry? its a blackberry pearl
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> I would say it's unlikely to be a problem.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> Also
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> subscribe to one of those 'locate your phone' services
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> they are bad accuracy - but better than nothing
[22:41] <Spudnik14> ok - we dont want to have to power cycle it (it too much work to do this late)
[22:43] <Spudnik14> GREAT - that sounds like a great back-up plan
[22:43] <Spudnik14> we can use that service if the GPS fails
[22:43] <Spudnik14> and then hone in with the radio!
[22:43] <Spudnik14> which is the best service provider?
[22:44] <rjharrison> Spudnik14 good luck
[22:44] <rjharrison> I'm off to bed
[22:44] <rjharrison> Nights
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[22:45] <Spudnik14> SpeedEvil?
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> dunno
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> I found lots on google
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> I think they will all be the same accuracy
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> they rely on info from the network
[22:47] <Spudnik14> dont they use the gps?
[22:48] <Randomskk> if they did it'd hardly be a good backup :P
[22:48] <Randomskk> they use what cell phone tower your phone is connected to, approximately
[22:48] <Randomskk> and each cell phone tower's location is known
[22:50] <Spudnik14> great
[22:50] <Spudnik14> i got one free for 30 days just now
[22:52] <Spudnik14> ah, the password comes in the post and takes 2-3 days
[22:52] <Randomskk> lol wow, what a great design
[22:52] <Randomskk> try some more :P
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[22:54] <Spudnik14> gutted :(
[22:54] <Spudnik14> yeah i will
[22:54] <Spudnik14> is there anything else we need to know?
[22:56] <Randomskk> good luck basically
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> test, test, test
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> Full-up test of all electronics, over several 'flights'
[22:57] <Randomskk> that would have been the advice if you'd asked before
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> check that you actually get the expected range
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> (of the beacon) if you dump it in a random place
[22:57] <Randomskk> when it's the night before it's kinda like having an exam tomorrow that you've not revised for and all you can do is cross your fingers :P
[22:58] <Randomskk> talking of which, I have a supervision tomorrow...
[22:58] <Jon_Apex> i have two
[22:58] <sbasuita> Randomskk, when it's the night before you still have time to revise ;)
[22:58] <Randomskk> sbasuita: hehe
[22:59] <Spudnik14> true
[22:59] <Spudnik14> your students?
[22:59] <Spudnik14> where?
[22:59] Action: SpeedEvil has another driving test Saturday.
[22:59] <Jon_Apex> cambridge
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[22:59] <sbasuita> Spudnik14, gcse student near reading
[22:59] <Randomskk> cambridge too
[22:59] <Randomskk> in fact a few metres away from Jon_Apex
[22:59] <Jon_Apex> haha
[23:00] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: hell, I need to book mine.
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> _the_most_fucked_up_IT_project_ever.
[23:00] <Randomskk> by the time christmas holidays roll around I'll have forgotten how to drive lol
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Large parts of the DSA website are completely broken
[23:01] <Randomskk> lol it's a total mess
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: do you use firefox?
[23:01] <Randomskk> yes
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Get imacros
[23:01] <Randomskk> to automate checking for closer test dates? :P
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> you can easily setup a macro to put in your driver number, ... and then click that macro in a seperate window every 15 min or so
[23:02] <Spudnik14> im ucl
[23:02] Action: SpeedEvil is chon.
[23:10] <MikeMc> evening
[23:12] <RocketBoy> nights
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[23:12] <Spudnik14> THANK YOU EVERYONE
[23:12] <Jon_Apex> best of luck for tomorrow
[23:12] <Spudnik14> WWW.SPUDNIK1.CO.UK
[23:12] <Jon_Apex> let us know how it goes
[23:12] <Spudnik14> will do
[23:12] <Spudnik14> bye
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[23:13] <MikeMc> sounds like a disater waiting to happen
[23:13] <MikeMc> *disaster
[23:14] <MikeMc> I'm surprised he got permission from the CAA
[23:15] <Randomskk> lol
[23:20] <MikeMc> lol
[23:21] <MikeMc> spudnik
[23:21] <MikeMc> sorry - just got that joke
[23:21] <Jon_Apex> oh dear
[23:21] <Randomskk> man, I suck at morse code
[23:25] <MikeMc> so apart from space potatoes are any launches planned?
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[23:35] <Jon_Apex> im off
[23:35] <Jon_Apex> night
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[23:39] <MikeMc> cya
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[23:51] <Spudnik12> ANYONE IN?
[23:51] <Spudnik12> we have one last question before launching.... it a fundemental!
[23:51] <Randomskk> oh?
[23:51] <Spudnik12> what angle is best for the cameras?>?
[23:51] <Spudnik12> horizontal or slightly tilted down?
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[23:52] <Spudnik1> Sorry, cut off.
[23:52] <Spudnik1> ?
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[23:54] <MikeMc> i guess slightly tiled but so that the horizon would still be top 3rd of the frame
[00:00] --- Thu Nov 12 2009