highaltitude.log.20091028

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[01:18] <juxta-> the NTX2 datasheet says for analog input, the input should be DC biased around 1.2V - does that mean being centered around 1.2v? ie low = 1.0v, high= 1.3v? or should high be 1.2v with low ~0.9v? or does it really not matter all that much, so long as it's closeish?
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[01:43] <natrium42> i believe 1.2V will produce the spec frequency
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[09:50] <MikeMc> morning all
[09:51] <SpeedEvil> perhap
[09:51] <SpeedEvil> s
[09:52] Action: SpeedEvil considers going back to sleep.
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[10:55] <juxta> hi all
[10:55] <MikeMc> hi
[10:55] <juxta> how you doing MikeMc?
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> hi
[10:56] <MikeMc> I am absolutely average thanks
[10:56] <juxta> haha
[10:56] <MikeMc> how about you?
[10:56] <juxta> much the same
[10:56] <juxta> though pretty happy I got my NTX2 going
[10:56] <juxta> how about you SpeedEvil?
[10:57] <MikeMc> Cool. I've got one of those that should be delivered today with a bit of luck
[10:57] Action: SpeedEvil is less of a man than he used to be.
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> 1.5Kg- this week :)
[10:58] Action: SpeedEvil will be cutting back that some to hit 1Kg/week.
[10:58] <MikeMc> well done
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> But it's not been too bad (dieting)
[10:58] <MikeMc> i've lost about half a stone i think over the last month
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> Today I've just got more work in the garage to do.
[10:58] <MikeMc> one a diet too (high blood pressure)
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> Nothing HAV related alas.
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> B
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> Well - I say that, but it might not be quite true.
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> I found a 30Kg roll of 50um polythene
[11:00] <MikeMc> that's a big roll
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[11:01] <MikeMc> what were you planning on using that for?
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> Probably nothing in at least the short term.
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> Seamed right, it'd make a rather large balloon though.
[11:02] <juxta> SpeedEvil: polythene - is that the clear plastic?
[11:03] <MikeMc> a vented balloon? open neck?
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> juxta: yes
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> juxta: Well - it's one of the clear plastics
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> juxta: many bags are made of it.
[11:06] <juxta> I think I know the one
[11:06] <SpeedEvil> It is typically quite soft, and if you try to tear it, it will often stretch a long way firts.
[11:07] <juxta> yeah
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[11:07] <juxta> http://www.jpaerospace.com/pongsat/away23.html
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[11:08] <juxta> like this SpeedEvil? http://www.jpaerospace.com/pongsat/away23.html
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> possibly, yes
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti.com/ww/en/analog/ads5400/index.shtml?DCMP=hpa_dc_ads5400&HQS=Other+EM+ads5400-emeu Insane. (12 bit ADC - 1GHz)
[11:10] <juxta> is that a 1GHz sampling rate?
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:11] <juxta> whoa
[11:17] <MikeMc> are you looking at that for a HAB payload? If so what would need a sample rate that high?
[11:17] <juxta> I was wondering that also
[11:19] <MikeMc> i can't see those for sale anywhere
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[11:26] <juxta> I guess they'd have to be fairly expensive too
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[11:27] <MikeMc> no doubt
[11:27] <juxta> MikeMc - have you done any launches before?
[11:29] <MikeMc> no this will be my first
[11:29] <juxta> me too :)
[11:29] <juxta> when are you planning on launching?
[11:30] <MikeMc> i'm guessing by the time i get around to finishing the payload it will be around January
[11:31] <juxta> nice - what are you planning on having onboard?
[11:31] <MikeMc> for launch 1 it's going to be "Keep it simple". So...
[11:32] Action: Laurenceb has FSA03
[11:32] <MikeMc> Camera, RF Module, GPS, SMS backup, temp sensors, maybe UV sensors
[11:32] <juxta> similar to me
[11:32] <juxta> do you know of anywhere to get UV sensors?
[11:33] <juxta> I looked at doing an ozone sensor too
[11:33] <juxta> but the sensors seem like a bit of a pain to use & calibrate
[11:33] <MikeMc> i need to research the UV sensors first - Want to get meaningful data
[11:34] <Laurenceb> the FSA03 is small
[11:34] <Laurenceb> to say the least :D
[11:34] <juxta> Laurenceb: what's FSA03?
[11:34] <Laurenceb> ublox5 gps with sarantel ant
[11:35] <juxta> ah right
[11:35] <Laurenceb> the new single IC ublox5
[11:35] <MikeMc> yeah they look nice
[11:35] <juxta> the ublox have good refresh rates also, don't they?
[11:35] <Laurenceb> I'm going to put it on my rogallo
[11:35] <Laurenceb> 4Hz
[11:35] <Laurenceb> more importantly the velocity output is very good
[11:35] <Laurenceb> low latency and high accuracy
[11:36] <Laurenceb> also virtually no glitches
[11:38] <juxta> that sounds pretty nifty, I have a buddy building a UAV
[11:38] <juxta> I'll mention it to him :)
[11:40] <Laurenceb> Ill have space spare on the mini rogallo if I do this
[11:40] <Laurenceb> enough for a dealextreme pen cam thingy
[11:40] <MikeMc> eek - DealExtreme - very slow delivery
[11:40] <MikeMc> What's a rogallo?
[11:41] <Laurenceb> 1970s style hanglider airframe
[11:41] <MikeMc> i see
[11:42] <Laurenceb> I have one of these atm http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9436
[11:42] <Laurenceb> but the FSA03 main board is about 1/3rd the area
[11:43] <MikeMc> nice
[11:43] <Laurenceb> only one IC
[11:44] <Laurenceb> a little MLF about 9mm square
[11:45] <Laurenceb> overall mass has got to be <10grams
[11:45] <Laurenceb> but I dont have scales
[11:46] <MikeMc> what benefits do they give over the Lassen IQ for a HAB flight?
[11:48] <Laurenceb> for HAB not great...
[11:48] <Laurenceb> I guess faster aquisition and smaller/lighter
[11:49] <juxta> i think my lassen weighs about 1g or something, the weight probably won't matter ;p
[11:51] <Laurenceb> make that about 15
[11:54] <MikeMc> faster acquisition is irrelevant though when your transmitting that data at 50 baud
[11:59] <Laurenceb> its a bit of a pain when you are trying to launch
[12:06] <Laurenceb> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22892
[12:06] <Laurenceb> I might fit that in the side
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28760 - GPS + logger
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> Ok - you have to solder into it to get the RS232, but...
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> the datasheet is available
[12:21] <MikeMc> How doe sthat GPS deal with teh COCOM limits though?
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[12:22] <rjharrison_> Hi all
[12:22] <rjharrison_> Hey fergusnoble
[12:22] <MikeMc> hi
[12:22] <rjharrison_> 1/2 term I see
[12:23] <MikeMc> unfortunately so
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> MikeMc: it's a venus 6 - OK IIRC
[12:25] <rjharrison_> Way too early to call but Thursday the 5th November is looking good
[12:25] <rjharrison_> http://www.wunderground.com/modelmaps/maps.asp?model=GFS&domain=I_UK
[12:25] <rjharrison_> GFS 200mb model
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[12:35] <MikeMc> Anyone taken UV readings before? Know what sensors to use?
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Only on the ground
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> you're iun the UK?
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> farnell I think jas a decent selection of sensors
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> you probably want several - at different wavelengths, with filters in front
[12:41] <MikeMc> Yeah i'm in the UK
[12:41] <MikeMc> No I mean on a HAB flight
[12:41] <MikeMc> measuring throughout the flight to see how it increases at altitude,e tc.
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> yes, wavelengths will be different - the highest energy UV will increase last for exmaple.
[12:44] <MikeMc> Farnell have UV photodiodes ranging from 440nm to 740nm
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> 740 is IR
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> 440 is more blue really
[12:44] <MikeMc> one at 365nm
[12:47] <MikeMc> top end of UV
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> 365 is around UVA - the softest end of UV - the lowest energy longest wavelength - least damaging
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[12:49] <MikeMc> Mouser have some that go from 200 to 340
[12:51] <MikeMc> ugh... "The manufacturer does not currently allow us to sell this product in your region."
[12:53] <MikeMc> Digikey has a better range - wow these are expensive
[12:53] <MikeMc> Perhaps i'll forget about the UV sensor
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> Bare silicon cells can have decent sense in UV
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> but you need a filter
[12:54] <MikeMc> as in solar cells?
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:00] <MikeMc> hmm
[13:00] <MikeMc> filters = expensive too
[13:09] <MikeMc> I heard there is a launch due soon but there is no mention on the wiki
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> ebay filters
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[13:34] <Laurenceb> Im ready to fly
[13:34] <Laurenceb> but need a lift
[13:37] <MikeMc> can't find any on eBay
[13:37] <MikeMc> fly?
[13:38] <Laurenceb> launch
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=uv%20interference&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories forex
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/BJOMEJAG-EBUYER-STORE__W0QQ_armrsZ1QQ_fsubZ9
[13:39] <MikeMc> cool - i was searching for "UV pass filter"
[13:39] <MikeMc> thanks
[13:39] <MikeMc> Laurence - your going to do a launch today?
[13:40] <Laurenceb> haha
[13:40] <Laurenceb> no chance
[13:41] <rjharrison_> We're waiting on the weather
[13:41] <Laurenceb> like nasa
[13:41] Action: Laurenceb is watching nasa tv
[13:41] <russss> I hope they launch the thing soon, it's getting a bit tedious
[13:41] <rjharrison_> Oh is it going up today>
[13:42] <rjharrison_> ?
[13:42] <russss> hopefully
[13:42] <rjharrison_> countdown
[13:42] <rjharrison_> ?
[13:42] <russss> it was meant to go up yesterday but they ran out of window
[13:42] <russss> T-4 minutes and holding
[13:42] <russss> planned hold
[13:42] <rjharrison_> oooh
[13:42] <rjharrison_> Cool
[13:44] <Laurenceb> fake ares
[13:46] <rjharrison_> Right I have nasa tv on too
[13:46] <Laurenceb> it just exploded
[13:47] <russss> for some reason they can't launch through clouds because of static electricity
[13:47] <russss> but they don't have that problem with the shuttle
[13:47] <Laurenceb> ... made you look
[13:49] <sbasuita> where's the countdown...?
[13:49] <russss> it's on hold at the moment
[13:49] <russss> the last launch estimate we had was 1430
[13:50] <sbasuita> Bit anticlimactic for the astronauts, no?
[13:50] <russss> there are no astronauts in this particular rocket, it's a flight test
[13:51] <sbasuita> o
[13:51] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_I-X
[13:51] <russss> wow, wikipedia have a "This article contains information regarding a rocket that may imminently be scheduled to launch, or currently be in the process of doing so." template
[13:51] <Paul2> Working in the space industry would be cool, there is just limited amounts of it in the UK
[13:53] <sbasuita> russss, yeah, I was a bit put back by that as well ;)
[13:53] <Laurenceb> Paul2: actually it sucks
[13:53] <Laurenceb> 95% of what they build is hopelessly outdated
[13:54] <Laurenceb> and most of the works is bureaucracy
[13:54] <MikeMc> why is my NASA TV all funky colours?
[13:54] <Laurenceb> ares is a perfect example
[13:54] <Paul2> Laurenceb: you work in the space industry?
[13:54] <Laurenceb> MikeMc: as you have the wrong codec?
[13:54] <Laurenceb> Paul2: I've been involved
[13:55] <russss> Laurenceb: surely all the fun stuff is in commercial spaceflight now
[13:55] <Laurenceb> yeah maybe
[13:55] <Laurenceb> mostly it all sucks
[13:55] <sbasuita> So latest launch estimate is 11am EST, ie. about an hour's time
[13:55] <russss> yes, weather permitting
[13:56] <Laurenceb> Paul2: the n-prize doesnt suck :D
[13:56] <Paul2> meh I still think it would be good doing anything
[13:57] <Laurenceb> mostly space is an excuse to make money off the taxpayer
[13:58] <Laurenceb> IMO its a good example of how government/industry tie ups can screw things up
[13:58] <Paul2> so like most government contracts then? :)
[13:58] <Laurenceb> if its purely gov run or purely private business isnt as corrupt
[13:59] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:40] <rjharrison_> 20mins till launch
[14:41] <rjharrison_> all systems ready and wx looks good
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:41] <rjharrison_> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
[14:47] <MikeMc> I don't get why the colours on my NASA TV are so funky
[14:47] <MikeMc> the codec is meant to be VC-1 which is a microsoft codec
[14:48] <rjharrison_> Bloody cloude
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> ntsc?
[14:51] <MikeMc> i'm going to try VLC player
[14:51] <Randomskk> VLC keeps crashing on either the windows or real links :/
[14:51] <MikeMc> hmm
[14:52] <Randomskk> and quicktime is just not working
[14:52] <Randomskk> I can't get anything to view the stream. :(
[14:52] <MikeMc> i can see it in WMP but the colours are all 'solarised'
[14:54] <MikeMc> Aha!
[14:54] <MikeMc> I see it in VLC player ok now
[14:56] <MikeMc> do they show the countdown on the stream too as it gets nearer?
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> mms://209.73.191.137/nqsenc004_d?StreamID=95808537&pl_auth=7e1452db85f14ff0c51ea888655192e8&ht=120&pl_b=00D90C088751AE84D25DB7207A4AE85B6F&CG_ID=1369080
[14:57] <Randomskk> :( I get a second of tantalising sound, then vlc crashes
[14:58] <MikeMc> working for me
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> mplayer here
[14:58] <MikeMc> v 1.0.2
[14:59] <Randomskk> I'll see if mplayer helps
[15:01] <Randomskk> mplayer fails to load any of them. :(
[15:02] <Randomskk> also for some stupid reason it is trying to get an ipv6 name for it and failing there
[15:03] <Randomskk> meh oh well
[15:05] <rjharrison_> hump
[15:06] <rjharrison_> and I thought waiting for the jet streams was bad
[15:06] <rjharrison_> BTW Thursaday the 5th Nov. Is a possible launch date for a world record altitude attempt
[15:06] <rjharrison_> On latex
[15:08] <MikeMc> by yourself?
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[15:11] <MikeMc> my audio is very 'scratchy'
[15:12] <MikeMc> did he say 10 mins till launch?
[15:13] <rjharrison_> 15:30
[15:13] <rjharrison_> 17 mins
[15:13] <MikeMc> k
[15:14] <rjharrison_> MikeMc no I think rocketboy will be there
[15:14] <MikeMc> Is it from Cambridge?
[15:14] <rjharrison_> EARS
[15:14] <rjharrison_> But yes near Cambridge
[15:15] <MikeMc> damn a Thursday
[15:18] <MikeMc> would have been nice to have watched it - well good luck tot hem - hope they make it
[15:22] <MikeMc> * to them
[15:24] <Paul2> HAB-TV tbh
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> green weather - clock restart about 3 min
[15:25] <MikeMc> so the launch will be streamed?
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> Is being
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> t:-3:00
[15:28] <rjharrison_> hehe
[15:29] <rjharrison_> cool
[15:29] <rjharrison_> It's a bit close to the 5th ov november for this
[15:29] <MikeMc> i mean the HAB launch
[15:29] <rjharrison_> MikeMc maybe
[15:30] <rjharrison_> 2mins
[15:30] <MikeMc> i'd love to go watch a launch
[15:31] <rjharrison_> Well you welcome to come to mine
[15:31] <MikeMc> :D Thanks
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> damn
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> stalled just at sep
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> looked like they were coming back for contact
[15:34] <rjharrison_> Opps
[15:35] <rjharrison_> Looks like it went wrong to me
[15:35] <MikeMc> oh dear
[15:35] <rjharrison_> Was the second stage ment to fire?
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> I think this was simply a first stage test
[15:36] <MikeMc> i think so
[15:36] <MikeMc> really?
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> I may be wrong
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> yeah - otherwise they'd have said 'oops - not fired' - as it's hard to miss
[15:37] <MikeMc> why are they not showing the descent?
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> no signal
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> Or rather - no usable video signal
[15:38] <MikeMc> antenna's not receiving any more
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> chute deployed
[15:38] <MikeMc> well they are all shaking hands so it must have goen to plan
[15:40] <MikeMc> maybe it was an optical illusion but it seemed to go up at a rather jaunty angle
[15:42] <MikeMc> anyone recommend a good IRC program? I hate hydraIRC
[15:42] <MikeMc> a free one
[15:42] <rjharrison_> Yep it thoughtseparation looked very bad
[15:42] <MikeMc> yeah didn't look right to me
[15:43] <rjharrison_> like the secondstage started to rotate around it's centre
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> pidgin works for me
[15:43] <rjharrison_> or centre to keep the americans happy
[15:43] <MikeMc> seemed to twist back on itself very quickly
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison_: looked almost like they were coming into contact
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> that may have been an illusion of course
[15:44] <MikeMc> tried Pidgin for IM before but not IRC - will give it a go
[15:44] <juxta> pidgin is nice, though I don't use it for IRC
[15:45] <juxta> what OS do you run MikeMc?
[15:46] <MikeMc> Work = XP Home = OSX
[15:47] <juxta> I like xchat, and I think there is a windows port
[15:47] <juxta> but I use mirc on windows - I don't really like it though
[15:48] <juxta> also - is there a launch going on at the moment or something? =\
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> juxta: no
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[15:48] <SpeedEvil> juxta: that was a NASA launch
[15:48] <juxta> oh, right
[15:49] <MikeMc1> OK Pidgin looks good
[15:49] <juxta> by the way - does horizontal polarization or vertial yield better results for HAB whips?
[15:49] <MikeMc1> Might give this a go
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[15:49] Nick change: MikeMc1 -> MikeMc
[15:51] <MikeMc> i guess it depends on the polarisation of teh transmitting antenna
[15:52] <juxta> ah, I meant on the trasnmit whip
[15:53] <juxta> transmit, even
[15:54] <MikeMc> i think most guys just have a trailing wire
[15:55] <juxta> oh, yeah - that's what I meant
[15:55] <juxta> a piece of wire
[15:57] <MikeMc> a horizontal one would make it pretty directional
[15:57] <MikeMc> which is not what you want
[15:57] <MikeMc> and as most whips are meant to be vertical, especially if it's a magnetic one on the tracking vehicle, then i guess vertical makes sense
[15:58] <juxta> that makes sense
[15:58] <juxta> cheers MikeMc :)
[15:59] <MikeMc> ok now the excitement is over i'm going home
[15:59] <MikeMc> talk to you later
[15:59] <MikeMc> bye
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[16:02] <juxta> bed time for me.. 2:30am here :(
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[17:00] <MikeMc> Hello
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[17:00] <MikeMc> hmm
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[17:07] <Laurenceb> weighed the FSA03
[17:07] <Laurenceb> 9.8grams
[17:08] Action: SpeedEvil weighed a plum. 70g.
[17:08] Action: Randomskk weighs an apple. 1N
[17:09] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: you any good with gnuplot?
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> Not very.
[17:09] <Laurenceb> I have a bunch of datapoints with erros
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> I tend to read the help for anything non-trivial
[17:09] <Laurenceb> and want to fit a function
[17:09] <Laurenceb> ok
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> Never used d the fit option
[17:09] <Laurenceb> gave up on origin
[17:09] Action: Laurenceb hates origin
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> I have used the stupid alternative of plot "foo",(x+7)/2
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> before
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> and just repolotted a few times
[17:16] Action: Laurenceb is annoyed
[17:16] <Laurenceb> stupid windows style programs
[17:16] <Laurenceb> menues and sub menues
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[17:19] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:19] <Randomskk> hi
[17:20] <Laurenceb> http://t16web.lanl.gov/Kawano/gnuplot/misc2-e.html
[17:20] <Laurenceb> appears to be similar to what I want
[17:20] <Laurenceb> stupid windowz
[17:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/northrop-grumman-lunar-lander-challenge
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[17:29] <edmoore> anyone know what the lates on a launch window is?
[17:29] <edmoore> latest*
[17:33] <jcoxon> edmoore, which window?
[17:33] <jcoxon> ares 1-x?
[17:33] <rjharrison_> its done
[17:33] <jcoxon> or balloon?
[17:34] <rjharrison_> Thursday 5th nov
[17:34] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison_
[17:34] <rjharrison_> and it's too early to call
[17:34] <rjharrison_> Hi jcoxon
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[17:37] <jcoxon> rjharrison_, managed to move the dl-fldigi trunk to a branch and replace it with the latest version of fldigi
[17:37] <rjharrison_> Great
[17:38] <rjharrison_> I'm sorry I have been busy getting the new house in order
[17:38] <rjharrison_> Moving in in Dec
[17:38] <jcoxon> np
[17:38] <rjharrison_> and I need to get a launch in too
[17:38] <rjharrison_> b 4 the 17th
[17:38] <jcoxon> yeah, weather is still being rubbish
[17:38] <rjharrison_> It may have to be a trip to Neatherlands if the jets don't improve
[17:39] <jcoxon> they'll be a chance soon...
[17:39] <rjharrison_> There is no rule that says we have to stay in the UK I don't think !!! :)
[17:39] <rjharrison_> Here's hoping
[17:39] <rjharrison_> Wundergrounds say 5th
[17:40] <jcoxon> i've recently found wunderground not to agree with cusf
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[17:46] <jcoxon> 5th is quite far away
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[17:50] <rjharrison_> I go wunderground for forcast and CUSF for the last 24 hours
[17:50] <rjharrison_> Now I understand the models that is
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[17:59] <MikeMc> evening
[17:59] <jcoxon> hey MikeMc
[17:59] <jcoxon> got the l293ds
[18:03] <MikeMc> oh cool
[18:03] <MikeMc> thought they might be delayed with teh strikes and all
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[18:06] <MikeMc> I think they tried to delivery my NTX2 today whilst i was out
[18:06] <MikeMc> will go pick it up tomorrow
[18:07] <jcoxon> ooo cool
[18:07] <jcoxon> russss, jontyw is there a workshop for next hackspace weds meeting?
[18:07] <russss> nope, not yet
[18:08] <russss> someone mentioned you might want to do one?
[18:08] <russss> which would be very useful
[18:08] <jcoxon> if people would be interested
[18:08] <jcoxon> not sure how workshoppy it would be
[18:12] <jcoxon> i could give an overview of balloon stuff
[18:12] <jcoxon> then a demonstration of radio and plotting onto a map
[18:12] <jcoxon> also i could put together a demo of SSTV images over the radio
[18:15] <jontyw> That would be brilliant
[18:15] <jontyw> Are you ok doing that?
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[18:16] <fergusnoble> jcoxon: hi
[18:17] <jcoxon> jontyw, yeah shouldn't be a problem
[18:17] Nick change: jasonb_ -> jasonb
[18:17] <fergusnoble> say you say that cusf and wunderground have stopped agreeing, think there is a problem?
[18:17] <Randomskk> hey fergusnoble, is there a cusf meeting tomorrow?
[18:17] <jcoxon> will finish clinic a bit early so i can get their to set up
[18:17] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: hi, yup there should be
[18:17] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, no i think its more that the weather is being a bit crazy
[18:17] <jcoxon> and cusf takes into account all levels
[18:17] <Randomskk> 1700 right?
[18:18] <fergusnoble> yup
[18:18] <Randomskk> cool
[18:18] <jcoxon> while looking at the various pressures isn't helping prediction
[18:18] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: hows things? any progress on the copter?
[18:18] <Randomskk> the rest of the parts arrived for that stm32 board, any chance I could solder it up before/during/after?
[18:18] <Randomskk> yup
[18:18] <Randomskk> got the motor to spin
[18:18] <Randomskk> at last
[18:18] <fergusnoble> yey!
[18:18] <Randomskk> however one of the jumper wires burnt out
[18:19] <Randomskk> and also melted all its insulation
[18:19] <Randomskk> later analysis reveals it was carrying double digit amps at 12V, significantly more than thin jumper wires are really designed for :P
[18:19] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: yeah sure, I can let you in any time in general as well
[18:19] <fergusnoble> hehe yeah
[18:19] <Randomskk> but the motor did spin until that happened
[18:19] <fergusnoble> thats cool
[18:20] <Randomskk> gonna work on the pcb for that next I think, since then it can handle somewhat higher powers without burning out :P
[18:20] <Randomskk> fets were fine at least
[18:20] <Randomskk> code needs an awful lot of work, but eh
[18:20] <fergusnoble> oh so this was with speed control too
[18:20] <fergusnoble> thats sweet
[18:20] <Randomskk> well. the setup is one PWM output, ANDed with enable signals for each high and low side driver of each phase
[18:20] <Randomskk> so the phase's on-period consists of many much higher freq pulses from the pwm
[18:21] <Randomskk> it was at 1/5 duty cycle. still enough power to melt the thing though
[18:21] <Randomskk> no back emf detection, just timed commutation steps, so enough to make it move but slow and inefficient
[18:22] <Randomskk> brb dinner. would like 1630 work for you? shoudln't take more than half an hour to solder it up
[18:23] <fergusnoble> up, sounds good
[18:24] <fergusnoble> do you have my number in case i forget?
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[18:33] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: get an FSA03 for your quad rotor :P
[18:38] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: where can you buy them?
[18:39] <Laurenceb> sequoia
[18:39] <Laurenceb> £50 inc next day delivery
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> fsa03?
[18:43] <Laurenceb> ublox5 module
[18:43] <Laurenceb> it weights 9.8grams :D
[18:44] <jiffe> well I talked to the faa regarding launch
[18:44] <jiffe> I got a list of regulation requirements
[18:46] <jcoxon> jiffe, what you launching?
[18:51] <MikeMc> what regulations?
[18:51] <jcoxon> yay got the stepper working
[18:51] <jcoxon> and moving the belt
[18:55] <fergusnoble> jcoxon: dare i ask what your up to? :)
[18:56] <jcoxon> mwhahaha
[18:56] <jcoxon> i'm makinga cnc hot cutter
[18:56] <fergusnoble> oh friggin sweet
[18:56] <jcoxon> from a all in one printer and scanner
[18:57] <jcoxon> so now have 2 arduino controlled steppers and belts and things
[18:57] <jcoxon> so thats x and y
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> Overkill.
[18:57] Action: Laurenceb orders his wind turbine blades
[18:57] <fergusnoble> a bit like the method used in the recent hackaday post?
[18:57] <jcoxon> inspired by
[18:57] <Randomskk> fergusnoble: don't think I've got your number
[18:57] <fergusnoble> yeah awesome
[18:57] <fergusnoble> Randomskk ill pm you
[18:58] <jiffe> just a balloon w/ some cameras
[18:58] <jiffe> http://nsab.us/downloads/misc/FAR_101_subpart_D.doc
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/3857889052/
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: The bottom of this was cast in one lump using a large block of foam hot-wire cut.
[19:00] <jcoxon> private pic
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Make two U shapes in between each other. now, cut the large block in X, then rotate 90 degrees, cut in Y, then open it up, pull the core out,
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> fixed
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> pour in concrete
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> let set - it got surprisingly hot.
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[19:01] <SpeedEvil> remove when mostly set, and smooth off with carbide hacksaw blade
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> The foam cutting was done with a wire through a not-wanted table under a loft-hatch.
[19:01] <jiffe> apparently I need 2 independent cutdown devices and bidirectional communication so I can activate the cutdowns at any time
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> The wire went all the way up and was secured to the hatch
[19:02] <fergusnoble> jiffe: wow, thats a steep requirement
[19:02] <jcoxon> jiffe one cutdown device is the fact the balloon will burst
[19:02] <Randomskk> jiffe: wow, pretty stringent
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> Then it was simply a case of pushing the block through the wire
[19:02] <Randomskk> lol does balloon bursting count as a cutdown?
[19:02] <jiffe> thats what I was thinking, the guy didn't really know and recommended I call kaymont
[19:02] <jcoxon> this is in the states - yes
[19:02] <Randomskk> I mean, I guess it does make you come down, but it's not exactly controllable
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> photo now public
[19:02] <Randomskk> lol fair enough then
[19:03] <jontyw> jcoxon, consider yourself booked
[19:03] <jontyw> we'll announce it tomorrow
[19:03] <Laurenceb> only true nerds go no an outing to a microwave relay mast
[19:03] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/3857894466/in/photostream/
[19:03] <jcoxon> jontyw, i'll think of a title and topics tonight
[19:03] <jcoxon> will email you
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: It's quite scenic - looking the other way
[19:04] <fergusnoble> looks like goonhilly
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> naah
[19:04] Action: Laurenceb assumed the idea was to enjoy the antenna
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> lomond hills, fife
[19:05] <jontyw> jcoxon, excellent, thanks!
[19:05] <Laurenceb> I was thinking about a specialist cnc mill for wind turbine blades
[19:06] <Laurenceb> not sure if itd be best to mill out of wood or cut foam for the core of a fibreglass blade
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> Does anyone happen to know how splitting an existing electricity supply into two - and getting two meters works?
[19:06] <Laurenceb> I've got some wooden blades I made myself that are pretty impressive, but it takes ages
[19:06] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: economy 7?
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/3857119839 - facing the other way
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I was wondering about cheating.
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: new electricity supply 'I'm getting in some tenants'.
[19:07] <Laurenceb> oh lol
[19:07] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: you could make your own centrax style lathe for cutting foam
[19:07] <fergusnoble> that would be neat
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: and economy 7 meter - completely seperate from the normal meter.
[19:07] <Laurenceb> economy 7 runs off a timer
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: then using normal electricity from one, and economy 7 for other loads
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: as normal economy 7 tarrifs have very high prices normally
[19:08] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: I think the electrisity company come out and do it for you?
[19:08] <Laurenceb> aha
[19:08] <Laurenceb> so three meters?
[19:08] <Laurenceb> clever
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yes - the expensive one would never get used
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> They want something like 28p/unit or so for normal time electricity on economy 7
[19:09] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: I would go with foam/fibreglass, will br lighter and probably cheaper
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> foam/fiber seems to be a good plan.
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if you could sanely do filliment wound - I suspect not really easily
[19:10] <fergusnoble> you dont want to filament wind a blade really
[19:10] <fergusnoble> you want quite a bit of longitudinal strength
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning with adequate filliments the ohter way
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> so XXXX - not ||||
[19:10] <fergusnoble> oh yeah, you could do but it would be much more of a pain for not much real benefit
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering if it might be easier to automatically get smooth than 'normal' fibreglass
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[19:12] <Laurenceb> I've got some 1.5meter diameter pine blades I made by hand
[19:12] <Laurenceb> the power output is pretty amazing
[19:13] <Laurenceb> but it takes ages to make them like that
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> MOAR POWER!
[19:14] Action: SpeedEvil ponders 1.5m diameter at the blade-root.
[19:14] <Laurenceb> ideally leds on the trailing edges
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> Do you get pine trees that big?
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:14] <Laurenceb> heh
[19:15] <Laurenceb> a few centuries with an electric plane and belt sander
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Wood might actually be easier to do CNC
[19:15] <Laurenceb> yeah thats what I was thinking
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> gluelam beam, then fix.
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[19:18] <fergusnoble> no, i think the foam would be easier
[19:19] <fergusnoble> you would only need a dremel as the tool
[19:19] <fergusnoble> and it wouldnt have large side loads on it from cutting
[19:19] <fergusnoble> it would be quite a flimsy rig, wood would need a really sturdilt build machine
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> yes - that's 1/4 of the answer though
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> as you then need to make a nice surface on the fibreglass
[19:23] <fergusnoble> how nice does the surface have to be?
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> pretty good.
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> For optimal drag
[19:33] <jiffe> I guess the first part of FAR 101 states payloads under 4 pounds are exempt
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[19:47] Action: Laurenceb is considering adding I2C to his FSA03
[19:50] <Laurenceb> would require getting enamled copper wire onto MLF "pins"
[19:50] <Laurenceb> http://www.falcom.de/support/documentation/fsa03/
[19:52] <Laurenceb> annoyingly the full GS5010 datasheet requires an NDA
[19:53] <Laurenceb> looks like they only give it to their hardware "partners"
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: are the pads exposed?
[19:54] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> I find tinning some wire, cutting it so that it's got ~2mm of tinned stuff, and then placing the wire with a little fixture to hold it dead-on works
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> and so it's sprung down a bit
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> and then you reheat it bloody carefully with a pointy tip
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> I would let you borrow my microsoldering machine, but I have yet to make it.
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> Take ~0.2mm wire. Arc to the end of it, and melt a blob onto the end in an oxygen free atmosphere.
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> now, apply flux, and heat the end while touching the to-be-joined bit.
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> with a non-stick bit
[19:59] <Laurenceb> need a pinout first
[20:00] <Laurenceb> maybe ublox would give me a pinout only
[20:00] <Laurenceb> rather than the full datasheet
[20:00] <Laurenceb> dunno
[20:00] <Laurenceb> oh well, gtg cya
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> do they have any i2c info?
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> wave
[20:00] <Laurenceb> yes they have that
[20:00] <Laurenceb> but not the pinout
[20:00] <Laurenceb> I have code for the i2c on the wiki
[20:00] <Laurenceb> cya
[20:00] Action: SpeedEvil passes Laurenceb a bed of nails.
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> wave.
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[20:12] <RocketBoy> Does anyone know where I can get the sort of figure 8 twin flex wire thats used on christmas tree lights - its just about ideal for running up to cutdowns
[20:12] <RocketBoy> Its about 1.5 x 3.5mm - I just can't find anything like it on rapid/rs/farnell
[20:14] <SpikeUK> Look for "bell wire"
[20:18] <fergusnoble> RocketBoy: maplin sells that kind of bell wire by the meter or reel. We tend to use it for cutdowns too
[20:21] <RocketBoy> yeah its like bell wire - but a bit thiner and has a flexible multi-strand core rather than solid conductors that are typicall
[20:21] <RocketBoy> typical with bell wie
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[20:24] <edmoore> jcoxon: sorry i was only making a flying visit earlier. was wondering if there has been any more news of forthcoming launches
[20:32] <fergusnoble> edmoore: hi
[20:32] <edmoore> evening!
[20:32] <Randomskk> edmoore: yay I got one of my motors to spin
[20:33] <fergusnoble> edmoore: the wiki now has latex support
[20:34] <edmoore> so I see. woo for latex
[20:35] <fergusnoble> also, would you try logging into the expenses system for me, I dont seem to be able to login through raven anymore
[20:37] <edmoore> the raven bit works, then looks like a database hiccup
[20:38] <fergusnoble> yup, ive found the bug
[20:39] <fergusnoble> I think its another register_globals thing
[20:42] <edmoore> that seems to be the php bug of choice atm
[20:45] <DanielRichman> register_globals makes me cry
[20:45] <Randomskk> register_globals is definitely my favourite php config option
[20:45] <Randomskk> iirc they are dropping it entirely from php6
[20:45] <DanielRichman> good
[20:45] <DanielRichman> register_globals was the worst idea evarrr
[20:46] <Randomskk> yup.
[20:46] <DanielRichman> I hope it's your fav. option in that it's always turned off :P
[20:47] <Randomskk> gosh no. it saves typing $_GET[] all the time.
[20:47] <Randomskk> </sarcasm> I do in fact have it off server-wide and locked so people can't put it on their domain
[20:48] <edmoore> they dropped it on the srcf a few weeks ago. that took th predictor down for a wee bit until i dumbly made the variable look like the other working variables ($_
[20:48] <edmoore> and has struck again
[20:48] <edmoore> given my knowledge of php, fluke.
[20:48] <Randomskk> admittedly it's not as bad as mysql calls made using it
[20:49] <edmoore> deference to the boss on matters such as this
[20:49] <DanielRichman> :o
[20:49] <DanielRichman> to be fair, register globals and sql injection attacks are just poor
[20:49] <Randomskk> "select * from users where password = '" . $password . "';";
[20:50] <Randomskk> although the register globals problem is more widespread
[20:50] <DanielRichman> ^^ no semicolon
[20:50] <DanielRichman> atleast php mysql doesn't let you stack commands
[20:50] <fergusnoble> edmoore: fixed it
[20:50] <Randomskk> if($is_admin){
[20:50] <DanielRichman> yes
[20:50] <edmoore> cool
[20:50] <edmoore> now we can have money, at last
[20:51] <fergusnoble> edmoore: its the bug of choice because the SRCF (wisely) disabled this legacy feature of php a short time ago
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[20:51] <rjharrison> Evening all
[20:51] <rjharrison> anyone fixed the wx
[20:51] <Randomskk> hi
[20:51] <rjharrison> Hey Randomskk
[20:55] <edmoore> right, I'm going to knuckle down. Ping the list if anyone spots a weather gap they're launching into
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> wave
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[21:10] <RocketBoy> ha - David Letterman said: 'What if God’s a woman? Not only am I going to hell, but I’ll never know why.'
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[22:20] <MikeMc> How many of you use cutdowns?
[22:20] <MikeMc> Jcoxon was saying it isn't worth it if you plan the launch well to make sure it won't go near the coast
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[22:29] <jcoxon> MikeMc, it is worth it if you can do it well
[22:29] <jcoxon> but i've begun to not bother and go to burst
[22:29] <MikeMc> i see
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[22:29] <MikeMc> i hear you're doing a talk at the next Hackspace?
[22:30] <jcoxon> yeah, no one was doing one next week
[22:30] <jcoxon> so i volunteered
[22:30] <MikeMc> cool
[22:30] <MikeMc> i'll be there
[22:32] <jcoxon> great
[22:32] <jcoxon> right i have got x and y working :-p
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[22:32] <MikeMc> on your cutter?
[22:32] <jcoxon> yup
[22:33] <MikeMc> cool
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[22:34] <edmoore_> jcoxon: did you get my email of a day or two ago?
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[22:34] <FanGrinder> whoa cool
[22:34] <jcoxon> edmoore_, yes sorry for not replying
[22:34] <edmoore_> not a prob
[22:34] <jcoxon> i'm getting a lassen breakoutboard made
[22:34] <jcoxon> so won't be ordering any
[22:34] <FanGrinder> are there any stationary kite projects i should look at?
[22:34] <edmoore_> ok not to worry
[22:34] <edmoore_> did you get an email from them that you might be able to forward?
[22:35] <jcoxon> yes of course
[22:35] <jcoxon> laurence has received one
[22:35] <jcoxon> he is very impressed
[22:36] <edmoore_> cool
[22:36] <jcoxon> shame i've ordered the boards as i'd be happy with one of those
[22:38] <edmoore_> thanks jcoxon
[22:40] <fergusnoble> edmoore_: taking about the new ublox 5s? :)
[22:41] <edmoore_> yep, seems like every week there's a nice new integrated solution for roughly the same price as a module on its own
[22:41] <edmoore_> based around that chipset
[22:44] <fergusnoble> yeah, it looks really nice
[22:44] <fergusnoble> was considering it for b2
[22:44] <fergusnoble> the downside is we might not want to always have the antenna onboard
[22:45] <edmoore_> amost certainly the case
[22:45] <jcoxon> that was my thought as well
[22:45] <edmoore_> could just have it connect as a uart to b2
[22:45] <edmoore_> it's basically the size of the antenna we've already been using
[22:45] <jcoxon> for long duration don't want it to get cold :-p
[22:50] <fergusnoble> thats a bit of a pita
[22:50] <fergusnoble> think its better to just go for a u5 and external antenna as planned
[22:50] <fergusnoble> although for the rocket the integrated antenna might be neater
[22:51] <fergusnoble> wonder if I could put both footprints on
[22:52] <fergusnoble> edmoore_: ps sorry about changing your name on the wiki, will change it back
[22:52] <edmoore_> i spotted that
[22:52] <fergusnoble> hehe
[22:54] <fergusnoble> Ive started adding details of some of the old flights btw
[22:54] <fergusnoble> if you want to help
[22:58] <edmoore_> will throw an hour at it tomorrow or friday. probably friday as two examples classes on friday morning which will keep me in gainful employment, time-wise
[23:02] <Randomskk> damn farnell. "scheduled system upgrade" my ass
[23:02] <Randomskk> their site was down with various server errors for about two hours, and now they put up a notice saying "scheduled maintenance"?
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[23:34] <fergusnoble> does anyone have the Nova 1 kml file around?
[23:34] <fergusnoble> it seems to have gone missing from the webserver
[23:37] <Randomskk> http://web.archive.org/web/20061217080836/http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/nova1logs/nova1_radio.kml
[23:38] <Randomskk> fergusnoble: ta da
[23:38] <fergusnoble> genius
[23:42] <Randomskk> hmm so is there still a meeting tomorrow plus the one on monday the following week?
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[23:53] <fergusnoble> dunno! just sent an email
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[00:00] --- Thu Oct 29 2009