highaltitude.log.20091021

[00:01] <MikeMc> not much happenin' here then tonight
[00:10] <Cooleo> Anyone here got experience with Paragliding?
[00:11] <MikeMc> high altitude near space paragliding - i like it !!
[00:11] <Cooleo> :D
[00:11] <Cooleo> Im starting Paragliding lessons soon
[00:12] <MikeMc> great
[00:12] <Cooleo> its really cheap too! :D
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[00:14] <MikeMc> nice
[00:16] <Cooleo> :D
[00:18] <Cooleo> anyhow sleep time
[00:18] <Cooleo> Night
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[01:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/feh5/pdfs/FEH_pdf_pp149.pdf
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[08:43] <MikeMc> Morning all
[08:53] <jcoxon> morning MikeMc
[08:53] <jcoxon> MikeMc, you on hackspace as well?
[08:55] <MikeMc> i am
[08:55] <jcoxon> do you go to the meetings?
[08:55] <MikeMc> yeah - not all of them but most
[08:57] <jcoxon> oh right
[08:57] <jcoxon> i've been to a couple
[08:57] <MikeMc> going tonight?
[08:57] <jcoxon> will be going tonight
[08:57] <jcoxon> yes
[08:57] <jcoxon> you?
[08:57] <MikeMc> sure am
[08:57] <jcoxon> cool cool - will see you then
[08:58] <MikeMc> sure
[08:58] <jcoxon> got a macbook with a blue apple you'll recognise it
[08:58] <MikeMc> i'll be the one with the white macbook covered in space invaders
[08:58] <jcoxon> it makes me laungh the number of macbooks
[08:58] <jcoxon> its either macbooks or netbooks
[08:58] <MikeMc> yeah they seem to be quite predominant
[08:58] <MikeMc> not sure why
[08:59] <jcoxon> perhaps we should have a HA workshop :-p
[08:59] <MikeMc> now that is actually darned good idea
[09:00] <jcoxon> anything in particular you are interested in working on?
[09:02] <mct> Hey. I was wondering if there was a GPS module from sparkfun.com that anyone was particularly happy with, especially for correctly determining your altitude at high altitudes? It seems many of them cut out at 18km?
[09:02] <MikeMc> my interest would be how to send data over RF
[09:02] <MikeMc> and receive
[09:03] <MikeMc> how it all works
[09:03] <jcoxon> mct, we have 2 favourites right now
[09:03] <jcoxon> the lassen iq and ublox modules
[09:03] <MikeMc> mct check the wiki it has a list of suitable GPS modules on there
[09:03] <jcoxon> ublox gps imo are the best
[09:03] <jcoxon> but are hard to find and often quite expensive
[09:03] <jcoxon> the key is to avoid sirfIII modules
[09:04] <jcoxon> MikeMc, do you have a radiometrix module yet?
[09:04] <MikeMc> i've got the lassen
[09:04] <mct> jcoxon, MikeMc: Cool, thanks.
[09:04] <mct> Yeah, I noticed the sirfIII spec sheets looked pretty bad.
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[09:04] <jcoxon> they work above 18km but not above 24
[09:05] <MikeMc> really?
[09:05] <MikeMc> whats the max?
[09:05] <jcoxon> oh thats sirfIIIs
[09:05] <MikeMc> oh
[09:06] <jcoxon> ublox claim to go to 50km and lassens i'm not sure but they have worked at 36km
[09:06] <MikeMc> i was going to say - 100000 feet, which seems to be the ceiling people aim for, is 30km
[09:06] <jcoxon> MikeMc, i'm happy to go over RF stuff, well how we use RF in HA if you want
[09:07] <jcoxon> the only issue is that my new radiometrix module is stuck in the post somewhere
[09:07] <MikeMc> i've got one i could bring
[09:08] <jcoxon> perfect
[09:08] <jcoxon> i'll breadboard something up so that we can make a working link
[09:09] <MikeMc> oh actually it is a 173.25 module
[09:09] <jcoxon> thats fine
[09:09] <MikeMc> but principle is teh same right?
[09:09] <jcoxon> let me check but i would say yes
[09:09] <jcoxon> also let me check my radio does 173
[09:09] <MikeMc> i have some other rf modules too
[09:09] <MikeMc> let me see what they are
[09:11] <jcoxon> MikeMc, hmmm my radio won't do 173
[09:12] <jcoxon> 76-154 and 420-470
[09:12] <MikeMc> Smart Radio AM Transmitter Module, 433MHz
[09:12] <MikeMc> RF650 Smart Radio Transceiver Module, 433MHz
[09:12] <MikeMc> from RF Solutions too
[09:14] <MikeMc> i have a 315MHz module too but your radio won't get that either
[09:15] <MikeMc> The RF650 seems best if you know how to hook it up
[09:15] <jcoxon> hmmm
[09:15] <jcoxon> rf650 is a serial input
[09:16] <jcoxon> one sec
[09:17] <jcoxon> the thing is that they have different methods depending on the modules
[09:18] <jcoxon> so RF650 is more intergrated so you put in serial and it sends it wirelessly and it spits out serial
[09:19] <MikeMc> no good?
[09:19] <jcoxon> which is great over short distances but doesn't allow us to a few little tricks to massively extend the range
[09:19] <jcoxon> unlike the radiometrix where you can vary your freq by applying a different voltage to the tx pin
[09:19] <jcoxon> that way you can do things like rtty or morse or some other system
[09:20] <MikeMc> ok
[09:20] <MikeMc> so maybe when your modules arrive then
[09:20] <jcoxon> i guess i could get off my arse and go and collect my radiometrxi from the delivery office
[09:20] <MikeMc> lol
[09:20] <jcoxon> ive got it down for redelivery on sat
[09:20] <jcoxon> but maybe i could collect it instead
[09:20] <jcoxon> (i'm off sick today)
[09:21] <jcoxon> do you have the 173 receiver?
[09:22] <MikeMc> the receiver module yes
[09:22] <MikeMc> not a radio
[09:22] <jcoxon> what is the module number?
[09:23] <MikeMc> NRX1
[09:23] <jcoxon> and the transmitter?
[09:23] <MikeMc> TX1
[09:24] <kleinjt> w
[09:24] <kleinjt> er... wrong window :/
[09:25] <jcoxon> okay
[09:25] <jcoxon> well we could pull it off with those modules
[09:26] <jcoxon> so the TX1 acts just like the ntx2 which is what i usually use
[09:26] <MikeMc> k
[09:26] <jcoxon> then we could link up the nrx1 to a sound card
[09:26] <jcoxon> as it has an audio out
[09:26] <jcoxon> and decode it
[09:27] <MikeMc> cool
[09:27] <jcoxon> rjharrison has done this before on this module actually
[09:28] <jcoxon> well we can certainly have a go :-)
[09:28] <MikeMc> Great :)
[09:29] <jcoxon> so how about we go over a few things...
[09:29] <jcoxon> start with morse
[09:29] <jcoxon> i've got a module we can do that with on 433
[09:29] <jcoxon> then move onto some other things like rtty
[09:30] <MikeMc> ok
[09:30] <MikeMc> if i were to transmit GPS co-ordinates i guess that would be RTTY ?
[09:30] <jcoxon> up to you
[09:30] <jcoxon> no reason why you couldn't convert them into morse
[09:31] <MikeMc> but could that be received at the other end in such a fashion that you could show up the position in Google Earth?
[09:31] <MikeMc> I am presuming received positions automatically show up in Google earth via some software link - rather than someone manually typing in long and lat ?
[09:32] <jcoxon> yes
[09:32] <jcoxon> i can show you that as well
[09:32] <jcoxon> a demonstration would make more sense
[09:32] <MikeMc> nice
[09:35] <jcoxon> if i'm feeling up to i'll trek to the old kent road to get that module
[09:35] <jcoxon> so bring the modules and anything else you've got
[09:36] <jcoxon> and we'll start a small workshop
[09:36] <jcoxon> if people enjoy it i'll get onto radiometrix and get them to donate a few and we could do a proper workshop
[09:37] <MikeMc> that would be cool
[09:38] Action: jcoxon needs to brush up on his radio theory
[09:38] <MikeMc> lol
[09:39] <jcoxon> MikeMc, grab a copy of dl-fldigi as well
[09:39] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/
[09:39] <MikeMc> ok i'll have to bring my XP machine then ;)
[09:40] <jcoxon> oh it works on macs
[09:41] <MikeMc> oh i didn't see the dmg
[09:41] <MikeMc> cool
[09:41] <jcoxon> also have a dmg for tiger as well
[09:41] <MikeMc> i'm on SL
[09:42] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:42] <jcoxon> the dmg on the site should work
[09:42] <jcoxon> if not i'll look into it later
[09:42] <MikeMc> k
[09:45] <MikeMc> seems to work
[09:47] <jcoxon> cool
[11:10] <MikeMc> do they sell those modules old kent rd. or is that a post depot?
[11:14] <russss> I'm bringing the USRP tonight
[11:15] <russss> seems like I'll be spending most of today trying to get GNU Radio working on my mac
[11:16] <MikeMc> GNU Radio? What's that? What's that?
[11:17] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Radio
[11:17] <MikeMc> nice
[11:18] <MikeMc> what do you use the USRP for?
[11:18] <russss> I bought it recently, I'm using it to track planes using broadcast air-traffic control data
[11:18] <russss> but I'm going to sell it to the hackspace when we can afford it
[11:19] <MikeMc> i see
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[11:20] <russss> it's cool though. I will be demonstrating it tonight
[11:21] <MikeMc> i'd like to see that
[11:21] <MikeMc> didn't you bring it along to that other pub? The one where we were down in the basement and the BCC turned up?
[11:22] <russss> I think that was the USRP that dominicgs borrowed of some anonymous donor
[11:22] <russss> but yes, we have had one before
[11:24] <MikeMc> ok
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[12:06] <jcoxon> MikeMc, oh its the postal depot
[12:06] <MikeMc> ok
[12:12] <jcoxon> hehe, tfl says it'll take me 35mins to get to the postal depot if i walk + bus + walk
[12:12] <jcoxon> or 34mins if i just walk
[12:12] <MikeMc> lol
[12:15] <MikeMc> Holy crap
[12:15] <MikeMc> just seen the price of the USRP2
[12:16] <russss> yeah. I have the USRP1
[12:16] <MikeMc> even that's not cheap
[12:16] <jcoxon> oh they aren't cheap but they are pretty damn amazing
[12:16] <jcoxon> russss, what bands do you have again?
[12:17] <russss> I have the DBSRX which is 800Mhz-2.4GHz
[12:17] <jcoxon> cool
[12:18] <russss> tbh for the price I should have got the TVRX at the same time, which is 50-870MHz
[12:18] <jcoxon> thats more the bands i'm used to working in :-)
[12:18] <jcoxon> have you had a chance to test it?
[12:19] <russss> I have been playing with it
[12:19] <jcoxon> okay cool, i have an old 868 radio modem
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[12:46] <jcoxon> bbl
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[13:46] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[13:51] <RocketBoy> hey jcoxon - i'm just writing some code for a PIC based TNC
[13:51] <jcoxon> ooo that sounds exciting
[13:51] Action: jcoxon hasn't done much ballooning this week
[13:52] <jcoxon> still waiting on deliveries
[13:52] <RocketBoy> yeah - there are a couple of boards around - but I think I can do it in a single chip
[13:52] <RocketBoy> yeah - I'm waiting for a few things - its annoying
[13:52] <jcoxon> similar to the pan you have on the wiki?
[13:53] <jcoxon> plan*
[13:53] <RocketBoy> part of that (but not dependant)
[13:53] <RocketBoy> I'm thinking of doing a water borne payload
[13:54] <RocketBoy> launching it from the loacl river mouth
[13:54] <RocketBoy> on an outgoing tide
[13:54] <RocketBoy> a 434MHz transmitter and mobile phone
[13:55] <RocketBoy> the idea being that I will track it using the phone - and locate it with the tx
[13:55] <RocketBoy> no GPS
[13:55] <jcoxon> so it'll just float away?
[13:55] <RocketBoy> yep thats the idea
[13:55] <RocketBoy> assuning it makes it through the felixstowe shipping
[13:55] <jcoxon> hehe i made plans for that once
[13:56] <jcoxon> let me find my notes
[13:56] <RocketBoy> I'll have enough batteries for about 3 to 4 weeks
[13:56] <jcoxon> though you could start from london down the thames
[13:56] <jcoxon> follow it out
[13:57] <RocketBoy> yeah - thats an idea
[13:57] <jcoxon> my fear was that the tx just wouldn't go far
[13:57] <jcoxon> unless you raised the antenna a lot
[13:57] <RocketBoy> it would be better for GSM coverage
[13:58] <RocketBoy> well thats all part of the test really
[13:59] <RocketBoy> the whole lot is mounted in a tesco sealable sandwich box
[13:59] <jcoxon> :-)
[14:00] <RocketBoy> with lots of silicone sealant
[14:00] <jcoxon> yeah
[14:04] <RocketBoy> its just an expensive way f getting rid on a mobile phone and transmitter really
[14:04] <jcoxon> haha
[14:04] <jcoxon> sounds fair
[14:05] <jcoxon> right need to email around about atlantichalo
[14:05] <jcoxon> would you be free for an online meeting perhaps skype sometime soon
[14:05] <jcoxon> such as sunday evening?
[14:05] <RocketBoy> sure
[14:05] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[14:05] <jcoxon> okay cool
[14:05] <RocketBoy> i'm free all the time these days
[14:05] <jcoxon> hehe
[14:05] <jcoxon> i'm keen to get something happening
[14:07] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, is your random solution email better these days?
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[14:09] <RocketBoy> yep it say that random solution email is better as I dont get anywher near the spam
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[14:16] <juxta_> hello all
[14:17] <jcoxon> hi juxta
[14:17] <juxta_> hey jcoxon - how's the breakout board coming along?
[14:18] <jcoxon> yup i've sent the design into be made
[14:18] <jcoxon> so will have to wait and see...
[14:18] <juxta_> sweet :)
[14:19] <juxta_> I realised today after I stuck my lassen down to my pcb that it seems I need to configure it to give the right NMEA data
[14:19] <juxta_> doesn't seem to be giving RMC at the moment
[14:19] <jcoxon> fair enough
[14:19] <jcoxon> do you need RMC?
[14:20] <jcoxon> GGA is pretty good for most things
[14:20] <juxta_> I'm not actually too clear on the differnce to be honest - I just assumed I did
[14:20] <juxta_> I mean I could see I was still getting coordinates etc wigh GGA
[14:21] <jcoxon> so GGA will give you time, lat, lon and alt
[14:21] <jcoxon> RMC will give you time, lat, lon, speed and bearing
[14:21] <jcoxon> so for the most comprehensive data you use both and combine the data
[14:21] <jcoxon> however i just use GGA and ignore speed and bearing as it can be worked out on the ground
[14:22] <juxta_> ah right
[14:22] <juxta_> i was also getting VTC I think?
[14:22] <juxta_> or VTG?
[14:23] <jcoxon> vtg
[14:23] <jcoxon> its up to you - i find simpler the better
[14:23] <juxta_> ah righto
[14:23] <juxta_> can the lassen be configured directly via comands? or do I need to use the windows utility?
[14:24] <jcoxon> i suspect the windows utility just passes serial commands
[14:24] <jcoxon> so you should be able to do it with a terminal
[14:24] <jcoxon> check out the lassen manual
[14:26] <juxta_> will do
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[14:33] <edmoore> Hi jcoxon . I am writing this from my new iPhone. This is exciting
[14:33] <jcoxon> oooo lucky you
[14:33] <MikeMc> lol
[14:34] Action: jcoxon is a little jealous
[14:34] <edmoore> I am still in giggle mode. Little things for little minds, I guess
[14:34] <jcoxon> hehe
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[14:35] <jcoxon> O2 network reception will crush those giggles
[14:35] <jcoxon> haha
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> I found many discount codes, and I'm going on a diet.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> So I've placed an order for a n900 at a little more than half price.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> If it's honored - great - if not - meh.
[14:35] <jcoxon> oooo i like those
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[14:41] <RocketBoy> BBL
[14:41] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|away
[14:43] <jcoxon> bbl
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[15:21] <Laurenceb> hi
[15:22] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb
[15:23] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[15:23] <Laurenceb> I've ordered some FSA03 modules XD
[15:23] <Laurenceb> at that price/performance I'm tempted to design a small "throw away" rogallo
[15:24] <MikeMc> hi
[15:24] <Laurenceb> hows the venus performing on badgercub?
[15:24] <Laurenceb> whats the dynamic response like?
[15:25] <edmoore> it's not the greatest thing in the world
[15:25] <edmoore> nice and sensitive, but it's not a ublox 5
[15:25] <edmoore> and the documentation is not nearly as good
[15:25] <Laurenceb> have you tried running/cycling with it?
[15:25] <edmoore> fine for normal HAB, wouldn't want it for an autopilot
[15:25] <Laurenceb> I see
[15:25] <Laurenceb> I tried my ublox5 on a bike
[15:26] <Laurenceb> you coldnt really ask for more :P
[15:26] <Laurenceb> lag was so small I couldnt easily see it
[15:26] <Laurenceb> <200ms
[15:26] <Randomskk> edmoore: would 1630ish be okay for soldering this pcb in the lab
[15:26] <Randomskk> ?*
[15:27] <Laurenceb> and the performance was very nice, pretty much a sum of pink+white noise
[15:27] <edmoore> tomorrow?
[15:27] <Randomskk> got drawing until 1615 and then the meeting at 1700
[15:27] <Randomskk> yea
[15:27] <edmoore> yeah why not
[15:27] <Randomskk> so I'll be in the dept anyway
[15:27] <Randomskk> I guess 30 minutes should suffice.
[15:28] <Laurenceb> no weird prifts or anything like some of the receivers - so ublox5 integrates with an imu very well
[15:28] <Laurenceb> *drifts
[15:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=9&ved=0CCUQFjAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.afresearch.org%2Fskins%2Frims%2Fq_mod_be0e99f3-fc56-4ccb-8dfe-670c0822a153%2Fq_act_downloadpaper%2Fq_obj_31d7165b-5398-45ff-b4ea-d52440a71d22%2Fdisplay.aspx%3Frs%3Denginespage&ei=4BjfSrW8BYOy4Qa77NUX&usg=AFQjCNEFWAsahV61pKif76JPIKkJnYiyYQ
[15:29] <Laurenceb> oops huge url
[15:29] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ^ thats maybe relevant to your hoverboard idea
[15:30] <Laurenceb> bbl, eating
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> I did some more numbers.
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> Looks more like $12K or so. maybe 15.
[15:30] <Randomskk> lol you think that is a huge url
[15:30] <Randomskk> http://hugeurl.com/
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/feh5/pdfs/FEH_pdf_pp149.pdf I saw - which may amuse you - CF tank abuse
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[15:44] <jcoxon> hey all
[15:44] <jcoxon> MikeMc, i've got the 434 module
[15:45] <MikeMc> Woohoo !
[15:45] <MikeMc> :D
[15:46] <jcoxon> i'm going to solder it onto my atlas flight computer, we can still play with it but the hardware wil be setup so it'll just be software
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[16:04] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: lol - page 34 of your pdf. See comedy physics 101 error on page 34.
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> ... design produces a lift of 3642.9N...The pressures are low enough to allow the pressure cushion to generate forces to support a craft of 35,700 kg.
[16:06] <Laurenceb> doh
[16:06] <Randomskk> lol
[16:06] <Randomskk> I dare say they mean 371KG
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[16:07] <Laurenceb> the other idea I had was an air curtain hoverboard
[16:07] <Laurenceb> that uses a lot less power
[16:07] <Laurenceb> <10Kw for 5cm hover height
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> Lots
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> Lots less that is
[16:08] <Laurenceb> its not so exciting
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> ring of fans round the edges - pointed in - pretty much
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> ?
[16:08] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:08] <Laurenceb> well at 45 degrees to vertical
[16:09] <Laurenceb> power scales with (pressure*ground ctearance)^1.5
[16:11] <MikeMc> jcoxon: great thanks
[16:13] <jcoxon> no problem
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: ground clearance in board diameters?
[16:16] <Laurenceb> power scales with (pressure*ground clearance)^1.5*curtain lenght/sqrt(curtain thickness)
[16:16] <Laurenceb> I think thats right anyway
[16:17] <Laurenceb> ground clearance in meters
[16:17] <Laurenceb> so I got about 6Kw for an elliptical 60cm diameter by 1.4m board with 5cm clearance
[16:17] <Laurenceb> round that up to 10
[16:18] <Laurenceb> - 150Kg GLOW
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure that you'll get 60% efficient thrusters
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Or is that 'air watts'
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[16:19] <Laurenceb> yes 6Kw of air watts
[16:20] <Laurenceb> then you want some vectored thrusters on the back for propulsion
[16:21] <Laurenceb> http://www.jameshovercraft.co.uk/hover/images/theory/momentum_curtain_principles.png
[16:21] <Laurenceb> anyway, gtg cya
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> wave
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[16:33] <MikeMc> jcoxon: what else would you like me to take tonight?
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[16:51] <jcoxon> MikeMc, i'll bringmy radio
[16:51] <jcoxon> don't worry if you don't want to bring yours
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[16:54] <MikeMc> the PSU is very heavy that's all
[16:54] <MikeMc> and bulky
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[17:00] <jcoxon> my radio will be fine, its smaller then the ft790 and has its own battery
[17:00] <MikeMc> ok cool
[17:04] <Randomskk> edmoore: aww, crap. scratch the soldering tomorrow
[17:04] <Randomskk> just realised I only brought the bag of farnell parts, but not any of the sparkfun parts
[17:04] <Randomskk> so would be missing all the switches, buttons, usb and jt connectors
[17:04] <Randomskk> jst*
[17:04] <Randomskk> will get them shipped up I gues
[17:06] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he could find his indium.
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> I want to put a USB stick inside a lightbulb, and have it hermetically sealed
[17:06] <Randomskk> why?
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> Because!
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> More practically.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> It's a light strong utterly waterproof container that is about USB stick sized.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> And it's to go on the end of a bamboo mast.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> For a 3G modem.
[17:08] <Randomskk> oh, neat.
[17:08] <Randomskk> remember usb segment length is 5m
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> I was surprised to find it worked pretty reliably at 10m
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> but I'm not actually violating that part of it.
[17:11] <DanielRichman> Just put a few usb repeaters in
[17:11] <DanielRichman> If you're pro you'll use relays
[17:11] <DanielRichman> and then it won't work
[17:11] <DanielRichman> but it will have that... feeling that you've made something awesome
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> relays?
[17:11] <DanielRichman> mmhmm
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> You mean those 1-port hubs?
[17:12] <DanielRichman> nah, I mean, the electromagnetic things
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> My initial test was simply 2*5m extension cables. I found it worked - to my surprise.
[17:12] <DanielRichman> pssh
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[17:12] <SpeedEvil> At USB2 speeds even
[17:12] <DanielRichman> you need to put in some decent cable, send a high voltage and use some transistors to boost it every 5m
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> transistors?
[17:12] <Randomskk> you can do the usb extension cables for up to 25m
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: yeah - I know.
[17:13] <Randomskk> I would just go with prebought extension cables rather than trying to make your own with transistors :p
[17:13] <DanielRichman> psssh
[17:13] <DanielRichman> You know it makes sense
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> It's not transistors - you need what is essentially a hub at 5m.
[17:13] <Randomskk> given as usb uses differential signalling, that signal voltages matter, that they go negative iirc and as the transistors have no suitable voltage to pull up or down to...
[17:14] <DanielRichman> The more important question is - why do you need a 3g modem attached to 10 meters of bamboo that can survive conditions in the rain?
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: only 6m bamboo.
[17:14] <DanielRichman> Still - that's a moderate amount of bamboo
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> The answer is regrettably obvious.
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> To get a signal.
[17:15] <DanielRichman> naturally, but in what conditions would you require 6 meters of bamboo to get a signal?
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> ky7 6la, vodafone
[17:16] <DanielRichman> Are you just on the edge of coverage then?
[17:16] <Randomskk> hah, request for shipment of the part lying around my room sent
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[17:16] <Randomskk> hopefully I'll get the rest of the parts for these pcbs soonish
[17:17] <DanielRichman> Unlucky
[17:17] <DanielRichman> You just pointing the 6 meters upwards?
[17:17] <DanielRichman> Hangon - don't you have broadband etc?
[17:17] <DanielRichman> I guess that's your house
[17:17] <DanielRichman> No wired connection?
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: yes
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: yes - I have broadband. But. :/
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> It dies for ~1-1.5h/day around midnight.
[17:19] <DanielRichman> nasty
[17:19] <DanielRichman> who's your ISP?
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> The problem is of course that there is absolutely no way to get an engineer to it in the faulty state.
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> Plusnet.
[17:19] <DanielRichman> actually - doesn't matter - each one would be equally helpless
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> However - the problem is that that's irrelevant
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> Any one would be talking to OpenReach - to come and fix the cables.
[17:20] <DanielRichman> mmm
[17:20] <DanielRichman> but every day at midnight? why so regular?
[17:20] <DanielRichman> sounds like a most strange problem
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> not at midnight.
[17:20] <DanielRichman> around
[17:20] <Randomskk> neighbour's kid starts watching porn
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> It starts around 22:30-1:00
[17:20] <Randomskk> before bedtime 1hr later
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> I haven't nailed it down - it's not obvious what it is.
[17:21] <DanielRichman> What kind of death?
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> Goes from ~12dB or more of margin to disconnect instantly on both lines.
[17:22] <DanielRichman> what on earth could cause that
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> Good question.
[17:22] <DanielRichman> Surely they must have some engineers at night
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> Connecting a scope to the phoneline doesn't reveal anything.
[17:22] <DanielRichman> I trust you've bitched suitably?
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> Yes - but they are of the 'someone has just cut birmingham off' variety.
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> They don't do residential faults.
[17:23] <DanielRichman> true
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> The problem is that if htey come and find no fault on the line - they have the right to charge me 136 (IIRC) pounds
[17:23] <DanielRichman> ouch. that's a bit of a pain
[17:23] <DanielRichman> Do people sharing the same line have the same problem?
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure.
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> neighbour problems.
[17:24] <DanielRichman> ah
[17:24] <DanielRichman> :(
[17:24] <Randomskk> maybe that explains it
[17:24] <Randomskk> evil neighbours :p
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> I doubt it :)
[17:26] <DanielRichman> I guess the ISP just thinks you have a switch it off and on error, you know, the standard helpline stuff... and you can't share your electrical knowledge since as soon as you do they'll be - you did WHAT with a scope! You're breaking everyone's internet!
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> yes. Pretty much.
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> I need to talk to the guys at openreach.
[17:26] <Randomskk> more like "what's a osillyscope?"
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> But - my ISP can't talk to them.
[17:27] <russss> nobody can talk to openreach
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> My ISP talks to BT - the part that deals with ISPs - and they talk to openreach
[17:27] <russss> your only option is to get an engineer and hope he's half decent and won't charge you the £136
[17:27] <russss> BT Wholesale
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> yeah, that.
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[17:28] <DanielRichman> sounds like the 3g modem is the cheaper option
[17:28] <DanielRichman> You going to poke 6m of bamboo out of a window or permanantly fix it?
[17:28] <DanielRichman> what happens when the troublesome neibour throws a stone at the lightbulb :o
[17:28] <DanielRichman> *neighbour
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> Far enough that it's not a problem.
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> I need to at some point affix it to the chimney
[17:29] <DanielRichman> What about lightning?
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> high trees around - shouldn't be a problem
[17:30] <DanielRichman> If a lightning strike hits a 3g modem in side a lightbulb... what happens
[17:31] <DanielRichman> reckon it'd take out the computer too?
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> I tend to unplug stuff in storms
[17:31] <Randomskk> put a lightning spike on top of the lightbulb
[17:31] <DanielRichman> good luck with your signal
[17:31] <Randomskk> lol
[17:32] <Randomskk> an earthed bit of metal surrounding the usb modem?
[17:32] <Randomskk> what could possibly go wrong?
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[17:56] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:03] <MikeMc> wdy
[19:04] <MikeMc> howdy
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> thdy in a bit.
[19:04] <MikeMc> that was meant to be
[19:04] <MikeMc> lol
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[19:29] <SpikeUK> Evening!
[19:37] <edmoore> hi SpikeUK
[19:38] <SpikeUK> edmoore hi! How are you?
[19:38] <edmoore> good thanks. summoning the energy to do some project work this evening
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[19:38] <rjharrison> hi all
[19:38] <rjharrison> evening jcoxon
[19:38] <jcoxon> hey all
[19:39] <SpikeUK> The gang's all here!
[19:39] Action: jcoxon and MikeMc are working at hackspace
[19:39] <edmoore> ah neat
[19:39] <SpikeUK> hackspace London?
[19:39] <edmoore> in Islington?
[19:41] <SpikeUK> jcoxon please say hi to @rainycat & @cathedrow for me
[19:41] <rjharrison> Hi edmoore
[19:41] <edmoore> hi rjharrison
[19:41] <rjharrison> Thanks for forwarding the query to iain
[19:41] <rjharrison> I gave up in the end as I dont have space for an R
[19:42] <SpikeUK> Does the team think that there's a chance of a launch this Sat or Sun?
[19:42] <rjharrison> Using the usual xtal
[19:42] <edmoore> not from cusf, although the emails flying around suggest some of the other guys are raring to go
[19:43] <rjharrison> Yep I'm raring
[19:43] <rjharrison> Subject to wx
[19:43] <rjharrison> And the winds look real bad ATM
[19:44] <SpikeUK> Thanks guys! The wx is not looking good for either day is it?
[19:44] <rjharrison> Just checking sunday
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[19:44] <edmoore> I need to get the icom properly installed into my car
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[19:44] <Randomskk> edmoore: did you get my earlier message about not being able to do the soldring tomorrow?
[19:44] <rjharrison> Neatherlands or Belgium (sat, sun)
[19:44] <edmoore> Randomskk: yep
[19:45] <Randomskk> should get the parts in a few days
[19:45] <Randomskk> silly thing to leave behind
[19:45] <Randomskk> now I have 5 minutes to do some fun and exciting maths
[19:45] <Randomskk> wooo
[19:45] <SpikeUK> edmoore - yuk!
[19:45] <edmoore> yuk to what?
[19:46] <SpikeUK> opps! I meant rjharrison not edmoore - sorry!
[19:49] <SpikeUK> rjharrison I guess you would rather not lose an Icarus to either Netherlands or Belgium?
[19:54] <RocketBoy|away> Chaps: a few of us have been discussing the idea of a UKHAS conference - a day (probably at weeked) with presentations on projects, safety and a chace for new memebers to meet up and look at ballooning kit etc. - we were thinking of holding it in Central London or Cambridge - which do folks think would be best?
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[19:57] <edmoore> my vote is predictable
[19:58] <edmoore> + I could probably get a lot of facilities for free
[19:58] <SpikeUK> RocketBoy|away - Brilliant Idea! I've been ruminating about the same idea - a kind of HABarCamp ;-) Cambridge could be better, if it was in holiday time - Unis offer reasonable priced accommodation outside of term time
[20:01] <RocketBoy|away> If folks have an idea of what presentations they would like to see the squeek up here or drop me a line at steve(at)randomsolutions(dot)co(dot)uk
[20:02] <RocketBoy|away> I'm thinking a weekend in the xmas school/uni hols then
[20:03] Nick change: RocketBoy|away -> RocketBoy
[20:04] <Randomskk> yesss maths done in record time and probably wrong
[20:04] <Randomskk> pubmeet time
[20:05] <SpikeUK> Academic holiday time I think is essential I think RocketBoy . If we went for (say) Easter, would there be more likelihood of good wx - and a possible multiple launch, maybee?
[20:06] <MikeMc> London for me
[20:06] <MikeMc> but i'd go to Camb. if it wad a weekend
[20:06] <MikeMc> *was
[20:08] <SpikeUK> There's only a couple months before Christmas now, possibly too short notice for non-Brits to sort out travel
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[20:14] <SpikeUK> RocketBoy - as for format, although I can see the benefit of having a preprepared programe, I really like the BarCamp principle, but them again, with a maximum of (say) 50 peeps...
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[20:18] <SpikeUK> edmoore - I think I would prefer Cambridge to Central London too. Gives the possibility of a live launch (or two) - great publicity!
[20:20] <rjharrison> Ahh missing the conversation on HA by PM'ing
[20:20] <edmoore> yep
[20:20] <edmoore> yeah, cambridge is, I guess, somewhat by accident the UK home of HAB
[20:20] <edmoore> just because it has the two launch sites :)
[20:21] <edmoore> on that point, am looking at another one by Bicester
[20:21] <rjharrison> I will put together a flyer I'm hoping to have talks from all teams about where they are going, a talk on saftly, legalities, insurance and risks and a talk on possible expansion of launch sites around the uk
[20:21] <edmoore> The 'I' word
[20:22] <rjharrison> sssssh
[20:22] <rjharrison> hehe you beat me on the launch sites.
[20:22] <edmoore> bicester buys us a lot of land for standard jetstream conditions
[20:22] <rjharrison> I'm suggesting that various people take resopnsibility for separate launch sites so no one person is on call alll the time
[20:22] <edmoore> and has a fairly clear route over towards east anglia
[20:23] <rjharrison> I got an offer of one in north yorkshire
[20:23] <rjharrison> Good for long flights down south
[20:23] <rjharrison> Floaters>
[20:23] <rjharrison> ?
[20:23] <edmoore> :)
[20:24] <rjharrison> Ok I have some kid responsibilities to sort out for an hour
[20:24] <rjharrison> Will put a flyer together and see who is available
[20:24] <rjharrison> I assume in Uni term time is good
[20:24] <edmoore> the discussion here said holiday preferred
[20:25] <rjharrison> Opps
[20:25] <edmoore> i'm fairly flexible as i'm here all year
[20:25] <rjharrison> Ok cool
[20:25] <RocketBoy> I tend to agree with SpikeUK we should limit the maximum number of people - 50 sounds about right (we might not get that many anyway)
[20:25] <rjharrison> I'm thinkg saturday
[20:25] <rjharrison> as this makes travel easier for all
[20:25] <rjharrison> I would like to approach radiometrix too
[20:26] <rjharrison> see if they would like to come along and see what we're up too
[20:26] <RocketBoy> yeah that would be cool - perhaps on of their tech guys
[20:26] <rjharrison> Perhaps a talk on low power radios
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[20:27] <SpikeUK> British Oxygen? Arduino?
[20:27] <rjharrison> this sounds like it's ticking boxes so watch this space
[20:27] <Laurenceb> hi
[20:27] <rjharrison> hi Laurenceb
[20:27] <SpikeUK> Laurenceb evening!
[20:28] <edmoore> Could get BOC there pretty easily
[20:29] <edmoore> although we'd need a reason
[20:29] <Laurenceb> where?
[20:29] <edmoore> we get on well with our BOC man, they're quite pro-ballooning
[20:30] <SpikeUK> Laurenceb there's been some discussion here (and elsewhere) about running a UKHAS convention sometime soon
[20:30] <Laurenceb> heh ok
[20:30] <Laurenceb> I'd be up for that
[20:30] <Laurenceb> but I'd have to do something I guess :-/
[20:31] <SpikeUK> To quote rjharrison "to have talks from all teams about where they are going, a talk on saftly, legalities, insurance and risks and a talk on possible expansion of launch sites around the uk"
[20:31] Action: Laurenceb is too busy of late
[20:31] <Laurenceb> I guess it could be fun
[20:31] <SpikeUK> I know nuffink about nufink so will be making the coffee ;-)
[20:31] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:35] <SpikeUK> Laurenceb There seems to be a bit of plotting going on on another channel somewhere with the occasional "bleedover" to here
[20:35] <Laurenceb> oh
[20:38] <Laurenceb> very misterious
[20:46] <rjharrison> As a feeler how does december the 12th fit with everyone
[20:46] <rjharrison> SAturday
[20:47] <edmoore> December could be dodgy for CUSf/churchill
[20:47] <rjharrison> Ok November?
[20:47] <SpikeUK> Too soon to get a good coverage
[20:48] <rjharrison> Sat 28th november
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[20:48] <rjharrison> Other wise it will have to push into the new year and exam time
[20:48] <rjharrison> for some
[20:48] <Laurenceb> I may be in france...
[20:48] <Laurenceb> beginning of december time
[20:48] <rjharrison> see above
[20:49] <rjharrison> <edmoore> December could be dodgy for CUSf/churchill
[20:49] <rjharrison> 28th Novemebr is good on several accounts it not too far away
[20:50] <rjharrison> not in the new year
[20:50] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:upcoming_launches
[20:50] <rjharrison> before the xmas stuff starts
[20:50] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy: could I hitch a lift?
[20:50] <Laurenceb> ~200gram payload
[20:51] <SpikeUK> I'm fairly flexible but I think we should focus on getting the younger members of this forum involved if poss
[20:52] <rjharrison> SpikeUK I hope to be able to get daniel richman and sbasuita there
[20:52] <rjharrison> If they come from reading I may even be able to get them a lift
[20:54] <SpikeUK> They were really who I wanted to involve - without getting too soapy here, they are our future (cough)
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[20:59] <sbasuita> rjharrison, oooh where?
[21:00] <rjharrison> To cambridge for a HAB conference
[21:00] <rjharrison> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:upcoming_launches
[21:00] <rjharrison> Laurenceb
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[21:01] <sbasuita> rjharrison, if its during holidays then i see no reason why i couldn't get up there
[21:01] <rjharrison> sbasuita Nov 28th Sat is looking potential ATM
[21:02] <rjharrison> Not sure if you have sat job
[21:02] <Laurenceb> cool
[21:02] <Laurenceb> I'm ready to fly next week, maybe this weekend as well
[21:02] <rjharrison> Laurenceb You won't be able to ride the Icarus II launch as this a world record alt attempt
[21:02] <Laurenceb> oh cool
[21:03] <rjharrison> But you're welcome to the floater
[21:03] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, phenny is phailing
[21:03] <Laurenceb> hmm ok maybe
[21:03] <Laurenceb> I dont want to end up in the sea
[21:03] <rjharrison> Will have pyro cutdown so you won't be up all night
[21:03] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, how did your pipes work out?
[21:03] <Laurenceb> beenb too busy
[21:03] <rjharrison> DanielRichman see PM
[21:04] <Laurenceb> had to go to the passport office
[21:04] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, just looking it up now
[21:04] <DanielRichman> what is this
[21:04] <DanielRichman> sbasuita,
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[21:05] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what
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[21:05] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, phenny is phailing. Not reconnecting after (randomly) dropping the connection
[21:05] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, well, check the logs
[21:06] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, Read error, op timed out, yet IP doesn't change so it's not my internet dcing
[21:06] <DanielRichman> since the ip _always_ changes when it dcs
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[21:06] <fuzzylugnuts> Hey
[21:06] <DanielRichman> besides it should reconnect -.-
[21:06] <DanielRichman> hi
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[21:06] <RocketBoy> laurenceb: sorry xaben9 isnt the sort of payload I can hang somthing off
[21:08] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:09] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, sounds great! I expect that if sbasuita can get there I can get ther
[21:11] <DanielRichman> Urgh. Why doesn't my french online dictionary have 'chav' in it
[21:19] <Laurenceb> lol
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[21:22] <fuzzylugnuts> *messes with pocketDigi*
[21:23] <DanielRichman> :O
[21:23] <DanielRichman> ooooh
[21:23] <fuzzylugnuts> it has Ax25 as one of the modems.... but its greyed out
[21:23] <DanielRichman> pssssh. It's windows mobile only
[21:23] <DanielRichman> need an android version - shouldn't b too hard, especially since android & fldigi are linuxx based
[21:23] <fuzzylugnuts> Oh cool
[21:23] <DanielRichman> (I don't have an android phone, just android > windows mobile)
[21:23] <fuzzylugnuts> *nod*
[21:24] <DanielRichman> well
[21:24] <DanielRichman> in principle
[21:24] <DanielRichman> I'm not 100% sure about android yet
[21:24] <DanielRichman> moblin looks interesting
[21:24] <fuzzylugnuts> i got this pda cheap and don't care whats on it, since pocketdigit works. This plus my 817 makes me smile.
[21:24] <fuzzylugnuts> moblin?
[21:24] <fuzzylugnuts> i can't keep up with that
[21:25] <rjharrison> fuzzylugnuts I love my 817 too
[21:25] <fuzzylugnuts> :D
[21:25] <fuzzylugnuts> I have the 857 too
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[21:25] <fuzzylugnuts> but qrp is more fun
[21:25] <rjharrison> 897 here
[21:26] <rjharrison> That's home rig
[21:26] <rjharrison> 2x817 for HAB
[21:26] <fuzzylugnuts> *nodnods*
[21:26] <fuzzylugnuts> lol
[21:26] <fuzzylugnuts> 2 of them?
[21:26] <rjharrison> Yep
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[21:26] <rjharrison> A backup just in case and one to play on the repeater with whilst tracking withthe other
[21:26] <fuzzylugnuts> Ahh ok
[21:27] <rjharrison> My 817 stack
[21:27] <rjharrison> :)
[21:27] <fuzzylugnuts> hehe.
[21:27] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm not a fan of its power plug
[21:27] <fuzzylugnuts> its dainty.
[21:27] <jcoxon> rjharrison, rob when you attached the 173 receiver to your computer's soundcard did you need anything in between?
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[21:27] <jcoxon> or was it direct connection
[21:27] <rjharrison> Direct connection
[21:27] <rjharrison> Using the audio pin though
[21:28] <rjharrison> and it only worked on some cards
[21:28] <rjharrison> need to set sensitivity very high in fldigi
[21:28] <rjharrison> basically the power without an amp is very low
[21:29] <rjharrison> You can connect earhones directly which is usefull
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[21:35] <junderwood> rjharrison: Looking at the logs from the Icarus flight in September, you seem to be using a checksum. Is it a simple XOR checksum or something cleverer?
[21:39] <Laurenceb> http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/091021-tw-alice-rocket.html
[21:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, $ setxkbmap -layout gb -variant dvorak
[21:40] <DanielRichman> :O
[21:41] <rjharrison> junderwood XOR check sum
[21:41] <rjharrison> it's documented on the the wiki with the C coed
[21:41] <rjharrison> code
[21:42] <junderwood> Ah. Should have looked. Thanks
[21:42] <rjharrison> however the wiki isn't playing ball
[21:42] <rjharrison> anyone else access the wiki?
[21:42] <junderwood> saw it 10 minutes ago. Seems to be bust now
[21:43] <rjharrison> weird
[21:43] <rjharrison> Laurenceb when are you going to be in france
[21:44] <rjharrison> Can you collect a payload if I send one over the channel :)
[21:45] <rjharrison> jcoxon NB there are two out out pins
[21:45] <rjharrison> output
[21:46] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: unlikely
[21:46] <Laurenceb> Grenoble
[21:47] <edmoore> wiki down for me too
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[21:50] <edmoore> I take that back, it just loaded, albeit bery slowly
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[21:56] <rjharrison> junderwood unsigned int gps_checksum (char * string)
[21:56] <rjharrison> {
[21:56] <rjharrison>
[21:56] <rjharrison> unsigned int i;
[21:56] <rjharrison> unsigned int XOR;
[21:56] <rjharrison> unsigned int c;
[21:56] <rjharrison> // Calculate checksum ignoring any $'s in the string
[21:56] <rjharrison> for (XOR = 0, i = 0; i < strlen(string); i++)
[21:56] <rjharrison> {
[21:56] <rjharrison> c = (unsigned char)string[i];
[21:56] <rjharrison> if (c != '$') XOR ^= c;
[21:56] <rjharrison> }
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[21:56] <rjharrison> return XOR;
[21:56] <rjharrison>
[21:56] <rjharrison> }
[21:56] <rjharrison> opps
[21:57] <rjharrison> sorry
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[21:58] <DanielRichman> rjharrison,
[21:58] <DanielRichman> no need for if (c != '$')
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[21:58] <DanielRichman> since there will be two $s at the start, 0 XOR $ XOR $ = 0
[21:58] <DanielRichman> ie if you xor it with dollar twice the net effect is nothing
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[22:35] <Laurenceb> Thanks, I've already worked my way through that sheet so it should be pretty easy to help them out. It looks like the session is scheduled to start at 11am, but is it best for me to be there earlier? Also, where are the labs held?
[22:35] <Laurenceb> Sorry I seem to be asking you everything! I dont mind swapping a few days - I never really feel like slipping off early on Friday afternoon anyway.
[22:35] <Laurenceb> Laurence
[22:35] <Laurenceb> arg what the hell
[22:36] <Laurenceb> ok lmao polease ignore that
[22:37] <natrium42> rofl
[22:38] <Laurenceb> ok wrong window
[22:40] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8875 <- thats neat
[22:40] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
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[22:50] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: I think my equation for hoverboard lift was wrong
[22:50] <Laurenceb> if you have the air blast going in at nearly horizontal its better
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> In a good way?
[22:50] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> Is this backed by detailed computational fluid dynamics?
[22:50] <Laurenceb> so it comes in then sort of rebounds off the trapped air
[22:51] <Laurenceb> er, just first principles
[22:51] <Laurenceb> hopefully +-10% or so, its really not that complex
[22:55] <Laurenceb> maybe 15 of those dealextreme fans
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> The other option is something rather simpler
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> one ~1m prop, gearbox, beeeeg motor
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> In a mesh cage you stand on
[22:57] <Laurenceb> not sure about stability
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure 15 would be enough
[22:57] <Laurenceb> that was for 5cm hover height
[22:58] <Laurenceb> and an elliptical board
[22:58] <Laurenceb> if it was circular and larger it gets better, but those fans wouldnt be a good choise
[22:59] <Laurenceb> they are almost perfect of a 1.5m by 0.6m single person board
[22:59] <Laurenceb> about 46m/s airflow, a little over what you want
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> how mounted?
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> at 45 degrees or so, sunk in the edge?
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> tricky
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> To get it neat
[23:02] <Laurenceb> inside pointing out
[23:02] <Laurenceb> then a cirular hollow tube about the outside
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> hmm
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[23:02] <Laurenceb> with honeycomb air injectors
[23:02] <Laurenceb> off the bottom
[23:02] <Laurenceb> angled in
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> Sounds interesting
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> So you have a 10mm (or whatever) nozzle all teh way round at 10 degrees
[23:03] <Laurenceb> about 30mm
[23:03] <Laurenceb> but yeah
[23:03] <Laurenceb> but not one nozzle
[23:03] <Laurenceb> have a series of 5mm or so nozzles
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> how do you inject air into the plenum without losing a lot of energy?
[23:04] <Laurenceb> it gives you extra ground clearance
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> the one that supplies hte nozzles
[23:04] <Laurenceb> you try and keep the velocity copnstant
[23:04] <Laurenceb> and there isnt much flow around it
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> Can't think of an easy way to test
[23:05] <Laurenceb> just from each fan around to its exit
[23:05] <Laurenceb> buld a section with just one fan and test the exit velocity
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> But for a quick hack, you could use a couple of car/bike batteries, and one ESC amplified with three big h-bridges I suppose
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> You want the air cushion running flat out all the time I suppose?
[23:07] <Laurenceb> yeah
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[23:14] <rjharrison> nights all
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[00:00] --- Thu Oct 22 2009