[00:00] <SpeedEvil> My only good camera with a working display has decided that it'd like to set the exposure to sunlight after the first pic
[00:37] SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[00:49] SpeedEvil (i=1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[00:49] SpeedEvil (i=1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[00:49] SpeedEvil (i=1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[00:55] juxta (i=fourtytw@122-49-175-48.ip.adam.com.au) joined #highaltitude.
[00:59] bt420 (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: Connection timed out
[01:54] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude.
[03:16] bt42 (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude.
[03:22] Tiger^ (i=tygrys@moo.pl) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[03:26] juxta_ (i=fourtytw@122-49-175-48.ip.adam.com.au) joined #highaltitude.
[03:37] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: No route to host
[03:47] juxta- (n=blah@122-49-175-48.ip.adam.com.au) joined #highaltitude.
[03:47] juxta- (n=blah@122-49-175-48.ip.adam.com.au) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[03:48] juxta_ (i=fourtytw@122-49-175-48.ip.adam.com.au) left irc: No route to host
[05:04] Nick change: shauno_ -> shauno
[07:02] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[07:07] jiffe1 (n=jiffe@ left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
[07:07] jiffe1 (n=jiffe@ joined #highaltitude.
[07:32] edmoore (n=ed@ joined #highaltitude.
[07:33] edmoore (n=ed@ left irc: Client Quit
[08:43] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude.
[09:03] bt42 (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: No route to host
[09:17] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@ joined #highaltitude.
[09:21] edmoore (n=ed@ joined #highaltitude.
[10:08] junderwood (n=chatzill@ joined #highaltitude.
[10:26] RocketBoy (n=Steve@ joined #highaltitude.
[10:37] juxta_ (n=blah@ joined #highaltitude.
[10:50] <rjharrison_> Morning all
[10:50] <rjharrison_> So far up to here with Icarus III http://www.robertharrison.org/images/various/Icarus%20III%20-%20Part%20Soldered.JPG
[10:51] <rjharrison_> Busy w/e so no solding time
[10:51] <rjharrison_> soldering even :_
[10:51] Laurenceb (n=laurence@hosts-137-205-164-238.phys.warwick.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[10:52] <rjharrison_> added some pads to secure the radiometrix TX http://www.robertharrison.org/images/various/Icarus%20III%20-%20Part%20Soldered%20TX.JPG
[10:55] <Laurenceb> neat
[10:55] <Laurenceb> I'd have added an SMA for the radiometrix
[10:55] <Laurenceb> do you have a ground plane on the other side?
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:05] <rjharrison_> Yep
[11:05] <rjharrison_> Yep and I have an sma
[11:05] <rjharrison_> Just not soldered yet
[11:05] <rjharrison_> Laurenceb
[11:06] <Laurenceb> I meant onto the pcb
[11:06] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/IcarusII-Filled-Small.JPG
[11:06] <rjharrison_> Laurenceb like that
[11:06] <rjharrison_> This is icarus II
[11:06] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[11:07] <rjharrison_> It's the same on here when I solder it on :)
[11:51] RocketBoy (n=Steve@ left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[11:54] bt42 (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude.
[12:02] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[12:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.evalbum.com/2743
[12:27] <Laurenceb> http://www.goped.co.uk/range.asp?id=9 <- thats actually not too expensive, wonder if it could be converted
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> converted?
[12:31] <Laurenceb> to electric power
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> oh
[12:31] <Laurenceb> add brushless motor and toothed belt
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Prolly better to do it from scratch
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> stick batteries in the vertical tube forex
[12:33] <Laurenceb> or get one of the petrol ones and convert
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> the a123 ones from dewalt battery packs 32*650mm would be about right
[12:33] <juxta_> hey rjharrison, that board of yours looks very cool :)
[12:35] <Laurenceb> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-2010-43-cc-ALINI-VIPER-GO-PED-MINIMOTO-MOTARD_W0QQitemZ360197272621QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Sporting_Goods_Scooters_LE?hash=item53dd6e342d
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I wonder how many they'd sell if the legalities were stuck to
[12:37] <Laurenceb> electric powered is a lot less dubious
[12:39] <juxta_> people ride those on the streets in the UK?
[12:40] Tiger^ (i=tygrys@ joined #highaltitude.
[12:40] <shauno> and americans think my mini's too small to be safe!
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> juxta: yes, but not legally
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I think not legally
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: maybe less obvious
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> (on footpaths)
[12:41] <juxta_> I don't think you'd get away with it for long here ;p
[12:41] <Laurenceb> AIUI its not strictly illegal on footpaths
[12:41] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@ left irc:
[12:41] <Laurenceb> if its electric powered
[12:41] <Laurenceb> as long as you keep below 15mph or something
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.surrey.police.uk/media/news_item.asp?area=12&itemID=3984
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> . A Go-Ped is viewed as a moped which means to ride one you must have a driving licence, MOT, tax and insurance. It is also illegal to ride a Go-Ped on the footpath.
[12:42] <Laurenceb> they are the petrol ones
[12:42] <Laurenceb> "motor vehicle"
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> the law does not make a distinction
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> there is no mention of 'petrol' in the legislation - IIRC from a couple of months ago when I read it
[12:43] <Laurenceb> hmm so how come you can ride electric wheelchairs
[12:43] <shauno> Surely there must be a distinction somewhere, to accomodate disabled mobility ... too slow
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> yes - htere is.
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> but invalid carridges are seperately regulated
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> And IIRC have a maximum speed of 4 or 8MPH, depending on class.
[12:44] <Laurenceb> ok... how come you can have electric bikes?
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> Though the latter you can drive on the road - even dual carridgeways - with a flashing yellow beacon
[12:45] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> "Electrically assisted pedal cycles complying with the requirements in The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Construction and Use Regulations 1983 are able to use facilities provided for ordinary bicycles. The Government are committed to encouraging more cycling as a healthy, useful and enjoyable means of travel."
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.50cycles.com/info_legal.shtml
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> It's required to have useable pedals
[12:46] <Laurenceb> hmm duck tape some pedals to the side
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> one of those things you'd actually need to sit down and read the specs
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> the law
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> there are apparantly a couple of laws that it might come under
[12:49] <shauno> Seems fairly similar to the legal issues with segways in the UK then
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> yes - it'd be legally identical to a segway
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> actually - segway may have >250W - so not
[12:50] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2009/10/18/1480w-scooter-motor-guarantees-head-trauma/#more-17434
[12:50] <Laurenceb> was just thinking about doing that
[12:51] <Laurenceb> there is a simple solution - when you see police pretend its a push one
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> Or ride only on your country estate.
[12:56] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[12:56] <Laurenceb> you can actually get pretty crazy performance with RC lipo cells
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I was saying a123 for reliabilty
[12:59] <Laurenceb> but it does get expensive
[13:04] <Laurenceb> 2.5 times the price and 20% heavier
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> true
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> But with the effort you're gonna put in - I'd want it to keep working for a while
[13:08] <Laurenceb> about £900 for ~35 mile range at 35mph
[13:08] <Laurenceb> for the lipo cells
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> you're gonna go 35 miles on a go-ped?
[13:09] <Laurenceb> http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8586&Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_5000mAh_6S1P_25C_
[13:09] <Laurenceb> yes
[13:09] <Laurenceb> :P
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> Over roads?
[13:10] <Laurenceb> you could use cycle paths
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> why not a more conventional electric bike?
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> they are not cycles
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> And some councils get really pissy about it
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> I.E. confiscation drives
[13:10] <Laurenceb> heh its not as cool
[13:12] <Laurenceb> unfortunately its still to expensive to be a awesome project
[13:12] <Laurenceb> probably cheapest to use single cells
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:15] <Laurenceb> http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7639 actually thats the cheapest on that site
[13:17] <Laurenceb> you could actually do the cells for <£500
[13:28] <Laurenceb> for > 30 miles range at 30mph
[13:28] <Laurenceb> about 10Kg of lipo cells
[13:35] <juxta_> How do most people handle photo taking on a payload? I was going to wire up IO pins to 'push' the shutter button by closing the circuit between the various contacts, but I'm wondering how I should trigger it
[13:36] <juxta_> I was initally going to have it done on a loop, but I realised that transmitting at 50baud is going to take about 20-30 secs, during which I won't be able to do anything else with my arduino
[13:36] <juxta_> hopefully I am making sense, I am very tired
[13:37] <juxta_> I thought about building a 555 timer to triger the cameras, but I dont know how low a 555 can go, if it's capable of 0.25Hz or lower
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> and there is no reason you can't - for example - change your service routine for the UART from 'send char'
[13:41] <russss> the easiest way is to use a canon camera and CHDK :)
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> to 'send char, update state of GPIO'
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> that too
[13:43] edmoore (n=ed@ left #highaltitude.
[13:43] edmoore (n=ed@ joined #highaltitude.
[13:43] edmoore (n=ed@ left #highaltitude.
[13:49] <juxta_> that's a good poing SpeedEvil
[13:49] <juxta_> I'm a bit out of it at the moment
[13:49] Action: SpeedEvil poings around the room.
[13:50] <juxta_> erm
[13:50] <juxta_> point, even
[13:50] <juxta_> I need to find a keystone 3000 battery holder
[13:50] <juxta_> for a 12mm round battery cell thingo
[13:50] <juxta_> naturally, the 3000 is the only one I can't seem to find locally
[13:51] <juxta_> without a battery my lassen IQ takes approximately forever to get a GPS lock
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> Watch out microsoft! http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/10/19/0128243/Amiga-and-Hyperion-Settle-Ownership-of-AmigaOS
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> why do you need a 12mm battery?
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> rip one - possibly including cell - off an old motherboard
[13:52] <juxta_> the pcb I'm using has a spot for a 12mm battery mount to provide backup power to the gps
[13:52] <juxta_> i think most on old motherboards are 24mm speedevil
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> Sure
[13:52] <juxta_> SpeedEvil*
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> couple of wires, job done
[13:52] <juxta_> again, another valid point
[13:52] <juxta_> haha
[13:52] <juxta_> bad day for me
[13:53] <juxta_> am I right in assuming the battery is to help the GPS get lock quickly after being switched off?
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> sort-of
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> it keeps the stored data on the orbits and stuff of the satellites
[13:54] <juxta_> yeah
[13:54] <juxta_> and time, etc
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> so that instead of having to download htis again, ...
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:54] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude.
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> you may see locks in some cases of 1s, vs 5 min
[13:54] <juxta_> yep
[13:55] <juxta_> what's the vell voltage?
[13:55] <juxta_> 3v or something?
[13:55] <juxta_> cell*
[13:55] <juxta_> maybe it's 3.6v
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> 3.0V or so is the nominal IIRC
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> I'm not really sure though
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> tehy aren't typicallt rechargable.
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> 2AAA batteries will work just fine though
[14:03] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[14:03] bt42 (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[14:10] edmoore (n=ed@ joined #highaltitude.
[14:11] <Randomskk> hi edmoore
[14:11] <edmoore> hello
[14:11] <Randomskk> so those nice white pcbs from hong kong arrived
[14:11] <Randomskk> though sadly they decided to chop off most of my silkscreen
[14:11] <edmoore> neat - how have they turned out?
[14:11] <edmoore> that's a bit annoying
[14:11] <Randomskk> electrically they seem fine, and visualy they are fairly nice
[14:12] <Randomskk> all the lines are there
[14:12] <Randomskk> but all text smaller tham some size has been cut
[14:12] <Randomskk> despite being inside their drm rules check
[14:12] <Randomskk> which does mean all the output pins are unlabelled
[14:12] <Randomskk> however the little dividers between groups of peripheral pins are still there, so I can kinda guess
[14:12] <Laurenceb> where were they from?
[14:12] <Randomskk> also no component names or values
[14:13] <Randomskk> seeedstudio
[14:13] <Laurenceb> interesting
[14:13] <Laurenceb> never used them myself
[14:13] <edmoore> jcoxon was looking at using them
[14:13] <Randomskk> it looked like a really good offer
[14:13] <Randomskk> so I gave them a try
[14:13] <Laurenceb> how expensive are they?
[14:13] <Randomskk> cheap
[14:13] <Randomskk> think it was like $50 or so for ten up to 5cm*5cm
[14:13] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:13] <Randomskk> and they say 1wk turnaround
[14:13] <Randomskk> plus coloured soldermask
[14:13] <Laurenceb> thats as good as batchpcb
[14:13] <Randomskk> and decent specs
[14:13] <Laurenceb> cool
[14:13] <Laurenceb> I'll have to use them
[14:13] <Randomskk> better than batchpcb price, plus better turnaround, soldrmask options, etc
[14:14] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:14] <Randomskk> thing is it has taken ages for these to arrive
[14:14] <Randomskk> in fact 1month to the day
[14:14] <Laurenceb> same for batchpcb tho :-/
[14:14] <Randomskk> batchpcb is still cheaper for one offs
[14:14] <Laurenceb> edmoore: for your IMU, are you use bias tracking on the gyros?
[14:14] <Randomskk> this fits the bill for "make quite a few, like 10, but not an entire panel"
[14:15] <edmoore> the gyro bias will be there in the state matrix, if that's what you mean.
[14:15] <Randomskk> shame about the silkscreen though
[14:15] <Laurenceb> thats similar to what I want
[14:15] <Laurenceb> I see
[14:15] <Randomskk> batchpcb don't drop random bits of the silkscreen
[14:15] <edmoore> I'm not sure there's any way around that if you're using kalman methods?
[14:15] <Laurenceb> not really
[14:15] <Randomskk> anyway edmoore was wondering if I'd be able to use your reflow oven for one or two of these sometime
[14:15] <Laurenceb> I saw a technique where they used biases as the state vector
[14:16] <edmoore> sure, no problem
[14:16] <Laurenceb> but I didnt really follow and it wasnt explained well
[14:16] <edmoore> Randomskk: shout when you want to and i'll open up the lab
[14:16] <Randomskk> okay, great. do you have some solder paste or should I acquire some first?
[14:16] <Laurenceb> I think for it to be strictly valid you have to use seperate bias
[14:17] <Laurenceb> do you have the gyros input in the propogator?
[14:17] <Randomskk> my new, not-burnt FETs arrived too, wish I had the time this stuff deserves
[14:17] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: I'd consider a resettable fuse
[14:18] <Laurenceb> at least for debugging
[14:18] <Randomskk> an excellent idea :p
[14:18] <Randomskk> need to find something that will allow quite a lot of amps though
[14:18] <Randomskk> and blow before the FETs
[14:19] <Laurenceb> edmoore: I got a basic imu with no bias tracking to work with the gyros input in the propogation stage
[14:20] <Laurenceb> Im not quite sure how you can do bias tracking as well like that...
[14:21] <Laurenceb> maybe treat the gyros as measureing attitude relative to the previous attitude
[14:21] <Laurenceb> covariance matrices should allow that to be represented accurately
[14:22] <Laurenceb> or stick a rate term into the state vector
[14:22] <Laurenceb> but then its kind of huge
[14:23] <Laurenceb> oh well I'll bbl
[14:40] juxta_ (n=blah@ left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> Neural networks!
[15:26] zeusbot joined #highaltitude.
[15:32] MikeMc (n=MikeMc@ joined #highaltitude.
[15:32] <MikeMc> howdy all
[15:35] juxta_ (n=blah@122-49-175-48.ip.adam.com.au) joined #highaltitude.
[15:35] juxta_ (n=blah@122-49-175-48.ip.adam.com.au) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[15:39] <MikeMc> any radio HAM's on?
[15:40] <MikeMc> I have a question please
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> ?
[15:40] Action: SpeedEvil is not but has seen some hams in his time.
[15:40] <MikeMc> OK...
[15:40] <MikeMc> lol
[15:43] <Laurenceb> thats offensive to islam
[15:43] <MikeMc> ?
[15:43] <Laurenceb> HAM
[15:43] <MikeMc> what 'lol' or 'ham' ?
[15:43] <MikeMc> I see
[15:44] <Laurenceb> allah akbar
[15:44] <Laurenceb> *BOOM*
[15:48] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=774524
[15:50] <jiffe1> alright, so in the US I need to call the FAA prior to a launch?
[15:50] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ^ a slightly easier way to make your esc
[15:51] juxta (i=fourtytw@122-49-175-48.ip.adam.com.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> neat
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> jiffe1: you're usA?
[15:52] <jiffe1> I am
[15:54] <MikeMc> WHy is it conversations seem to start mid-way?
[15:54] <MikeMc> Does my IRC client cut stuff off or do people carry on conversations started hours ago?
[15:56] edmoore (n=ed@ left irc:
[15:56] <jiffe1> days, maybe weeks :)
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> jiffe1: I think most of the people ATM are mostly UK, so don't do USA launches
[15:57] <jiffe1> ic
[15:58] <jiffe1> I guess I can give em a call and see what they say
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> I think you need more approvals if you want to launch your kid.
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> Which seems popular these days.
[15:59] <russss> heh
[15:59] <jiffe1> no, I hear people just send them up anyway
[16:00] <jiffe1> just a 7000ft drop, kids are bouncy anyway
[16:00] RocketBoy (n=Steve@ joined #highaltitude.
[16:05] <jiffe1> what is a good way to choose a launch point? start with a preferred landing point and use path prediction?
[16:06] <jiffe1> or just choose a wide open area
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> launch area doesn't have to be very open
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> the balloon goes up quite rapidly - and unless you're actually launching in between skyscrapers, or in high winds, it's unlikely to hit much
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> generally it works better to simply launch from an easy site for you, and wait till the predicted path goes in a sane direction
[16:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5142&Product_Name=Turnigy_80-100-B_130Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_(eq:_70-55)
[16:10] <Laurenceb> hmmm perfect for a scooter :D
[16:11] <MikeMc> what's teh best way to find the 'predicted path' ?
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> run the predictor several times with differnet start times
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/
[16:13] <russss> 6.5kW (!)
[16:13] <Laurenceb> 9 horsepower
[16:13] <MikeMc> presumably that uses current weather/wind to generate the result?
[16:13] <russss> yeah
[16:14] <Laurenceb> 0 to 40mph in 2.5 seconds
[16:14] <Laurenceb> problem is you'll fly off the back
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: glue
[16:15] <Laurenceb> it'll do a wheelie
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> naah
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> Not with the vectoring thruster at the front at full power
[16:17] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:17] <russss> also "Turnigy" is quite an amusing name
[16:17] <Laurenceb> add ducted fans to the front
[16:17] <Laurenceb> to push the front wheel down
[16:19] <Laurenceb> actually its just as it starts that you have the problem
[16:19] <Laurenceb> as the accel is very high and then drops
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> A comedy low budget electric heli would be fun.
[16:20] <Laurenceb> so you could have an accelerometer based throttle limiter
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15230 * 150
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> well - 'magic carpet'
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> You could actually make a hoverboard.
[16:21] <Laurenceb> yeah, and it wouldnt be that big either
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> no
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> Actually no - that'd be a free flight board.
[16:21] <Laurenceb> 1.5m x60cm
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> for a hoverboard you could pull it down some due to ground effect
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how loud it'd be.
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Do it right, and you could get most of the low freqs cancelling
[16:22] <Laurenceb> a free flight board would be coolest
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> especially if introduced as a hoverboard
[16:23] <Laurenceb> but a high performance electric scooter is easier
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> slowly take off as if it's struggling, creep about at 5cm above the ground, then nail it and soar off into the distance.
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Somewhat :)
[16:23] <Laurenceb> if you set the accel to limit it to 0.5G forward accel and it should be easy to stay on
[16:24] <Laurenceb> and theres only a very small decrease in performance
[16:24] <Laurenceb> its the accel at low speed that throws you off the back, you can see in the videos on hackaday
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> or just slow start
[16:24] <Laurenceb> accels are cheap
[16:24] <Laurenceb> then use a BESC with hacked firmware
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> or just current limiting
[16:25] <Laurenceb> should be able to do some other cool stuff like regenerative braking and speed calculation
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> well...
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> regnerative is only really interesting with expensive bats alas.
[16:26] <Laurenceb> high power led lights on the front
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're on _very_ flat terrain, the small wheels kill your performance
[16:26] <Laurenceb> the gopeds have large pneumatic tires
[16:27] <Laurenceb> 10 inch or so
[16:27] Action: Laurenceb is worried - if you run the motor at max power you should be able to do about 110mph
[16:29] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[16:30] <RocketBoy> jiffe1: a good way "to choose a launch point" is one you have obtained a permit from the CAA for (in the UK).
[16:33] <RocketBoy> if the question is what is a good way to choose a site that you will be able to get a permit for - then choose one outside of controlled airspace.
[16:34] <RocketBoy> which would limit you to the west country, east anglia, wales and scotland.
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> Neat. I make it a 4 or 5000 quid for a carryable heliboard.
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> 20-30kg.
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> ~2 min of free flight
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> Alternate packing. http://cargolaw.com/images/disaster2007.Ital.Florida7.GIF
[16:41] <Laurenceb> I think you could squeeze out 3 minutes
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> I think you could too
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> I was including 1 min of 'oops' power
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> You do not want to land with fading batteries
[16:46] <SpeedEvil> Do it right, and it could be really quite modular
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> With maybe a block of 4 fans, batteries, and ESCs all being a replacable unit
[16:52] <MikeMc> RocketBoy - does that mean that the CAA will flat refuse to give you permission if it was in Kent or Sussex for example? Or would it just be harder to obtain permission?
[16:55] <Laurenceb> http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=HW150caresc
[16:55] <Laurenceb> yummmm
[16:56] <Laurenceb> lol antilock regenerative braking
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> That's a _damn_ inventive feature
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> And bloody good idea
[16:56] <Laurenceb> kind of neat as you can get all the info you need with no more sensors
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how bad a ~20mm debris screen in front of the fans would be
[17:03] <Laurenceb> the configuration table looks pretty neat
[17:03] <RocketBoy> MikeMc: It will be certainly a *lot* harder based on conversations I have had with them about a couple of launch sites in North Essex.
[17:03] <Laurenceb> pity it doesnt output rpm
[17:03] <MikeMc> Why? South Essex for example is a long way from an airport
[17:03] <MikeMc> I mean SOuth Kent
[17:06] <RocketBoy> MikeMc; have a loot at an airmap - you will see that most of the UK is in controlled airspace - outside of that aircraft densities are much lower - mostly the only thing to worry about is light aircraft and flights above 19,500ft
[17:06] <RocketBoy> look
[17:06] junderwood (n=chatzill@ left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.14/2009082707]"
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> The things you find on ebay.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ring-Of-Fire-After-Curry-Wipes_W0QQitemZ350227644362QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item518b31bfca
[17:07] <Laurenceb> hang on a minute.... how can it do ABS
[17:07] Action: Laurenceb doesnt follow
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> monitor torque
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> If regenerative braking, and torque drops, back off the braking, ...
[17:09] <Laurenceb> hmm ok
[17:09] <MikeMc> i see
[17:09] <Laurenceb> yeah I was thinking of the technique where you compare wheel speeds
[17:11] <Laurenceb> of course theres the question of is it really regenerative, or just passing current in reverse
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[17:13] <Laurenceb> actually true regenerative braking would require a large capacitor and smps
[17:14] <Laurenceb> dump current into the cap then pump up to the battery voltage
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're near full throttle
[17:14] <Laurenceb> unless you are going really fast you wont be able to reach the battery voltage
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> you could just have a capacitor connected across the motor in the right phase to boost it to the supply voltage
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> but that would be a not trivial capacitor
[17:16] <Laurenceb> best just the use the existing h bridges to pump into a cap
[17:16] <Laurenceb> then a high frequency smps
[17:16] <Laurenceb> use the same cap thats there already to decouple the supply
[17:16] <Laurenceb> then have a fet to disconnect the battery from it
[17:17] <Laurenceb> and then run a smps pumping charge in the opposite direction
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> It's 'easy' if you have a cap at 1/2 the rail voltage
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> and more transistors
[17:21] <Laurenceb> I guess
[17:22] Action: Laurenceb contemplates 100mph on one
[17:22] <Laurenceb> http://www.fun4kids.co.uk/rocket-petrol-scooter-43cc.html
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> Have you seen Bruce Simpson's page?
[17:23] <Laurenceb> take off petrol engine and replace with 6500W motor with sprocket
[17:23] <Laurenceb> no
[17:23] <Laurenceb> oh him yeah
[17:25] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:25] <Laurenceb> hes an idiot if you ask me, call your project that and theres bound to be trouble
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> yes - well - he's not wrong
[17:25] <Laurenceb> hes just not very slick
[17:26] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: I persist in wanting to make my own from scratch rather than modifying a commercial one
[17:26] <Laurenceb> guess its good experience
[17:26] <Randomskk> the new, not-blown FETs arrived toda
[17:26] <Randomskk> today
[17:26] <Laurenceb> if you want to make an electric vehicle the towerpro controllers arent powerful enough
[17:26] <Randomskk> yea.
[17:26] <Laurenceb> towerpro are the only ones I've seen hacked
[17:27] <Randomskk> I just wish I had more tiiiime,
[17:27] <Randomskk> .*
[17:27] <Randomskk> so little time
[17:27] <Laurenceb> heh problem sheets
[17:27] <Randomskk> so fucking many
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> Expensive for ~100KW though.
[17:27] <Randomskk> also, past tripos questions
[17:27] <Laurenceb> you could be a problem sheet camwhore
[17:27] <Laurenceb> its not unknown
[17:27] <Randomskk> is that where you do lots and lots
[17:27] <Randomskk> or...
[17:27] <Laurenceb> where you exchange answers for...
[17:28] <Randomskk> thought it might be.
[17:28] <Laurenceb> :P
[17:28] <Randomskk> I'm a guy, doesn't that tend to put me on the other side of that equation?
[17:28] <Laurenceb> heh
[17:28] <Laurenceb> its what st hildas at oxford was known for back in the day
[17:29] <Randomskk> lol really
[17:29] <Randomskk> nice
[17:29] <Randomskk> the girl's boarding school?
[17:29] <Randomskk> no
[17:29] <Randomskk> ignore that
[17:29] <Randomskk> the oxford college. obviously.
[17:30] <Randomskk> precious few female engineers anyway though
[17:30] <Laurenceb> http://www.fun4kids.co.uk/rocket-petrol-scooter-43cc.html
[17:31] <Laurenceb> ^ with a full size scooter :P
[17:31] <Laurenceb> oops
[17:31] <RocketBoy> MikeMc: worth a look: http://www.bbc.co.uk/britainfromabove/stories/visualisations/planes.shtml
[17:31] <Laurenceb> http://www.jmuafv.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=35&Itemid=60 that even
[17:32] <MikeMc> yeah see what you mean
[17:32] <MikeMc> over nr. Bristol looks OK
[17:33] <Randomskk> just go launch from a "secret military installation" then
[17:33] <MikeMc> lol yeah
[17:35] <RocketBoy> It just gives you an idea where airspace is crowded and where its not
[17:35] Jon_Apex (n=chatzill@js843.sel.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[17:36] <Laurenceb> http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12031&sid=784a99be3fac37112405a46d5e238447&start=15
[17:37] <MikeMc> I've been listening to my local 70cm repeater for 3 days now and so far have heard 1 conversation last night
[17:37] <MikeMc> I am really surprised it isn't used more often
[17:38] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[17:38] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:38] <RocketBoy> MikeMc: where is your local repeater
[17:39] <MikeMc> Chelsfield
[17:39] <RocketBoy> ?
[17:39] <MikeMc> GB3OK
[17:39] <MikeMc> http://www.gb3ok.com/
[17:41] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[17:41] <RocketBoy> Surprising given its location - I guess ham radio isn't as active as it onece was
[17:42] <RocketBoy> yo jcoxon
[17:42] <MikeMc> i guess so
[17:42] <Laurenceb> we have internet
[17:42] <MikeMc> ooohh someone just spoke
[17:42] <RocketBoy> time was when you had to fight to get into a london repeater
[17:42] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, even the routers in london are quiet
[17:43] <jcoxon> repeaters*
[17:43] <jcoxon> wow too much internet
[17:43] <Randomskk> lol
[17:43] <Randomskk> :(
[17:43] <jcoxon> never hear anything on GB3LW
[17:43] <Laurenceb> ok... http://www.electricscooterparts.com/index.html guess this idea isnt too novel
[17:43] Action: Randomskk is studying for foundation and intermediate and taking both back to back in a week or two
[17:43] <jcoxon> and GB3EL has been shutdown
[17:43] <Laurenceb> if theres a webstore devoted to parts for doing it
[17:44] <Randomskk> there are websites devoted to parts for doing almsot anything
[17:44] <MikeMc> i'm hoping to take Foundation soon
[17:44] <RocketBoy> is GB2LO still there?
[17:44] <Randomskk> actually drop "parts for doing"
[17:44] <Randomskk> websites for anything
[17:44] <Randomskk> MikeMc: cool. I'll have to try and work you. hehe.
[17:45] <MikeMc> :D
[17:45] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, don't think so
[17:45] <Randomskk> I guess 10w should be enough, where are you?
[17:45] <MikeMc> Back of Chelsfield
[17:46] <RocketBoy> looks like GB2LO is GB3SL now
[17:46] <Randomskk> not too far then really
[17:46] <Randomskk> I'm in Cambridge so pretty much directly north
[17:46] <jcoxon> oh if anyone is interested i've found a supplier of FSA03 modules
[17:46] <jcoxon> http://www.falcom.de/products/gps-modules/fsa03/
[17:47] <Laurenceb> oh my god
[17:48] <Laurenceb> price?
[17:48] <RocketBoy> what QRK is required?
[17:48] <jcoxon> 40.23 gbp
[17:49] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[17:49] <jcoxon> not including vat
[17:49] <Laurenceb> wow
[17:49] <Laurenceb> are you putting in an order?
[17:49] <RocketBoy> that is so ideal for a minimum diameter rocket
[17:49] <jcoxon> the thing is that you can get that module for 40 dollars in the states
[17:49] <jcoxon> so they are slightly ripping you off
[17:50] <Laurenceb> I dont care
[17:50] <jcoxon> ummm its through sequoia.co.uk
[17:50] <jcoxon> i emailed them, told them that HA people would be very interested
[17:50] <Laurenceb> thats about 70% of the ublox5 from sparkfun
[17:50] <Laurenceb> and its smaller
[17:50] <jcoxon> they emailed back today saying 40.23 + vat + 10 p&p
[17:50] <Laurenceb> and half the current draw
[17:50] <Laurenceb> and lighter
[17:51] edmoore (n=ed@ joined #highaltitude.
[17:51] <Laurenceb> and the sparkfun ublox5 was already about the best gps you could buy :P
[17:51] <Laurenceb> well for non crazy money
[17:51] <Laurenceb> thats amazing
[17:51] <jcoxon> i'm not going to order one right now as i've just sent off to get some lassen iq breakout board pcb
[17:51] <edmoore> what's happening?
[17:51] <jcoxon> and i've got a lassen
[17:51] <jcoxon> edmoore, got a price for that ublox gps
[17:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.falcom.de/support/documentation/fsa03/
[17:51] <Laurenceb> its the god gpd
[17:51] <Laurenceb> *gps
[17:51] <edmoore> hit me
[17:51] <jcoxon> 40.23 not including vat
[17:51] <edmoore> that's not too bad
[17:52] Action: Laurenceb starts worshipping
[17:52] <jcoxon> you'd have to email them to order
[17:52] <Laurenceb> pity theres no i2c interface
[17:52] <Laurenceb> oh well guess you cant have everything
[17:52] <jcoxon> and please say that you are doing ballooning
[17:52] <jcoxon> who knows they might get 'interested'
[17:53] <jcoxon> the evaluation kit is 396 gbp
[17:53] <jcoxon> ;-p
[17:55] <jcoxon> if you want the contact i can forward on the email
[17:55] <Laurenceb> l.blaxter<at>warwick.ac.uk
[17:56] <jcoxon> done
[17:56] <jcoxon> hey edmoore good weekend?
[17:57] <edmoore> yep thanks
[17:57] <edmoore> you?
[17:57] <Laurenceb> "Moreover, the chip can be connected to an external Flash EPROM allowing for firmware upgrades and saving configuration settings"
[17:57] <jcoxon> yeah, chilled, didn't achieve very much
[17:57] <Laurenceb> looks like you cant store configuration onboard, thats a bit of a pain
[17:59] <Laurenceb> but no worse that lassen iq
[17:59] <edmoore> me neither
[18:01] <jcoxon> hmmm special delivery during postal strike - bad feeling that parcel is going to get lost!
[18:02] <edmoore> yeah
[18:02] <edmoore> i am getting a bit annoying in anticipation of this trike too
[18:02] <edmoore> oh well
[18:03] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] <edmoore> really must do some actual work this evening
[18:04] <jcoxon> they seem to still be recovering from the last one
[18:04] <jcoxon> same, though it won't happen..
[18:05] <edmoore> yeah
[18:05] <edmoore> maybe an early start tomorrow is what's needed
[18:05] <edmoore> right, dinner time anyway
[18:05] <jcoxon> cya
[18:05] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
[18:15] jasonb (n=jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[18:18] Jon_Apex (n=chatzill@js843.sel.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[18:32] <Laurenceb> http://gas2.org/2009/10/06/new-nickel-lithium-battery-has-ultrahigh-energy-storage-capacity/
[18:33] jasonb (n=jasonb@m430536d0.tmodns.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:34] <sbasuita> interesting
[18:48] <jiffe1> getting ahold of the faa is not an easy task
[18:48] <jiffe1> they don't seem to have a call queue
[18:49] <jiffe1> getting ahold of them by phone I should say
[18:54] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[18:55] Jon_Apex (n=chatzill@js843.sel.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:56] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, have you tested the camera more?
[18:56] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, nah. be back later
[18:56] <DanielRichman> it still works though
[18:56] <Randomskk> Jon_Apex: btw check my youtube youtube.com/randomskk for some of the various kinda things you can play around with those
[18:57] <Randomskk> though you will probably need some more parts, I have a few bits and pieces here if you want - ultrasonic distance sensor, ir distance sensor, leds, accel if you want
[18:57] <Jon_Apex> lovely, thanks :)
[18:58] <Randomskk> np
[18:58] <Randomskk> dept should have more playthings. really needs some switches and the like
[18:58] <Jon_Apex> yup
[19:00] Hiena (n=Hiena@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:00] <Jon_Apex> toms not going to pub
[19:00] <Randomskk> hmm okay
[19:00] <Randomskk> so that leaves
[19:00] <Randomskk> uh
[19:00] <Jon_Apex> er.. me, you, will, james?
[19:01] <Randomskk> is james doing rowing?
[19:01] <Randomskk> what about vaishnavi (lol horrible spelling I am sure)
[19:01] <Jon_Apex> havent spoken to her
[19:01] <Jon_Apex> and yes i think james may be rowing
[19:02] <Randomskk> lol so me, you, tasha, will, scary non-freshers
[19:02] <Jon_Apex> hmm
[19:02] <Laurenceb> can projectors be used off center from the screen?
[19:02] <Jon_Apex> considering not going... sleep... arduino... hot chocolate... electrical examples papers...
[19:03] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: yes
[19:03] <Laurenceb> as in over to the left or right
[19:03] <Randomskk> ah
[19:03] <Laurenceb> they usually have optics for that?
[19:03] <Randomskk> better ones do. but I don't know how common it is
[19:03] <Laurenceb> right
[19:04] <Randomskk> worst case, you get a bit of distortion
[19:04] <Randomskk> depends how off-centre you are
[19:04] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host81-158-107-192.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:05] <edmoore|away> oh
[19:05] <edmoore|away> the old arduino vs examples paper conundrum
[19:06] <edmoore|away> i remember that. It's become a way of life now
[19:06] <Laurenceb> you know how I like my arduino
[19:06] <Randomskk> this is "arduino vs engineers pub crawl"
[19:06] <edmoore|away> pub crawl should win
[19:06] <Randomskk> but "engineers pub crawl with less than half the freshers attending due to sporting commitments"
[19:06] <Jon_Apex> yes
[19:06] <edmoore|away> we once had hugh hunt help us with mechanics examples paper in the Castle
[19:06] <Jon_Apex> this is true
[19:06] <Randomskk> lol he is awesome
[19:06] <Randomskk> spent 40min in our lecture today demonstrating a ball on a rotating table
[19:07] <Randomskk> it moves in slowler circles! the wonders of coriolis force
[19:07] <Randomskk> I should say acceleration
[19:07] <Laurenceb> not a force
[19:07] <Laurenceb> oh you wre there first
[19:07] <Randomskk> ha
[19:08] Action: Laurenceb goes back to dreaming about 100mph electric scooters
[19:08] Action: SpeedEvil goes back to dreaming about 100MPH hoverboards.
[19:08] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil wins this one
[19:09] <Laurenceb> technically go dont expend any energy hovering
[19:09] <Laurenceb> so if you can find a way to make it work...
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes - that's true - but decidedly not true of the solution I was proposing.
[19:09] Nick change: bittwist -> Frank_-_
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> ~100hp
[19:10] Nick change: Frank_-_ -> bittwist
[19:11] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a hoverboard with a 100A 415V plug on the side.
[19:18] jasonb (n=jasonb@m430536d0.tmodns.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[19:19] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to get sockets working for IPC
[19:19] <Laurenceb> can anyone help?
[19:20] <Laurenceb> I want to split a process and talk to it through a socket
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> not done that recently
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> isn't it just read/write/poll thjough?
[19:22] <Laurenceb> I think so
[19:23] <Laurenceb> but I think I want two sockets
[19:23] <Laurenceb> running between the processes
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> aren't yunix sockets bidirectional?
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> unix
[19:26] <Laurenceb> I think so
[19:26] <Laurenceb> but I have two data streams
[19:26] <Laurenceb> i.e. sperate
[19:27] <Laurenceb> http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/C/node28.html#SECTION002810000000000000000 I guess that explains it
[19:27] <Laurenceb> I've written my RTTY tracking code and FM signal acquisition stuff
[19:28] <Laurenceb> just trying to put it all together now
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:30] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, what's wrong with pipes?
[19:31] <Laurenceb> I need two seperate streams
[19:31] <DanielRichman> so have 4 pipes
[19:32] <DanielRichman> I thought the point of sockets was to have one server many clients, like IP sockets
[19:32] <DanielRichman> ie you bind, accept, then use
[19:32] <DanielRichman> rather than make a pipe and fork and use
[19:32] <Laurenceb> how do you setup multiple pipes?
[19:32] <DanielRichman> Just create more than one
[19:32] <Laurenceb> talking to the same program
[19:32] <Laurenceb> hmm
[19:33] <Laurenceb> doesnt the process you split see just stdin and out?
[19:33] <DanielRichman> IIRC you call a function to make a pipe that returns two file descriptors - in and out
[19:33] <DanielRichman> No, after forking i'm fairly sure it retains other file descriptors
[19:33] <DanielRichman> man fork:
[19:33] <DanielRichman> * The child inherits copies of the parents set of open file descrip
[19:33] <DanielRichman> tors. Each file descriptor in the child refers to the same open
[19:33] <DanielRichman> file description (see open(2)) as the corresponding file descriptor
[19:33] <DanielRichman> in the parent.
[19:34] <DanielRichman> The ubuntu man page for pipe has a nice example
[19:35] <DanielRichman> int pipefd[2]; pipe(pipefd); fork, read from pipefd[0], write to pipefd[1]
[19:35] <DanielRichman> multiple calls to pipe with more pipefd[2]s should do the trick
[19:36] <DanielRichman> If you don't want to use fork() (ie. haev the programs start independently) you could use a fifo which is a named pipe; like a socket yet one input one output; Laurenceb
[19:36] <Laurenceb> hmm
[19:36] <Laurenceb> so I have main.c that starts up loops.c
[19:37] <Laurenceb> loops.c passes back info on its tracking loop status and a bitstream of data
[19:37] <Laurenceb> so that requires two pipes
[19:37] <DanielRichman> yu[
[19:37] <DanielRichman> *yup
[19:37] <Laurenceb> but how do I actually setup the pipes?
[19:37] <DanielRichman> (on a side note:) Why do you need main.c to still be able to execute stuff?
[19:38] <Laurenceb> it then goes on to run a state machine that processes the bitstream
[19:38] <DanielRichman> k. You on ubuntu?
[19:38] <Laurenceb> and maybe a gui so you can see whats going on
[19:38] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:38] Jon_Apex (n=chatzill@js843.sel.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[19:38] <DanielRichman> `man pipe` and scroll to the bottom
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> unix sockets are bidirectional
[19:41] <Laurenceb> hmm actually dont I need to use system(); ?
[19:42] <Laurenceb> system("loops %s",loopargs);
[19:42] <DanielRichman> you don't even need two execustables
[19:42] <DanielRichman> have loops.c as an object file
[19:42] <DanielRichman> call its main something like loops_main
[19:42] <DanielRichman> then fork()
[19:42] Nick change: bittwist -> bawstarkski
[19:42] <DanielRichman> if fork returns 0 you're the child; if it returns a number it's the pid of the child and you're the parent
[19:43] <Laurenceb> yeah but that makes the code messy
[19:43] Nick change: bawstarkski -> BeeTeePoorlyHued
[19:44] <Laurenceb> http://tldp.org/LDP/lpg/node11.html
[19:45] <Laurenceb> hang on... so if I use fork so that both processes are the same code
[19:45] <Laurenceb> then if they both setup a pipe... the pipes endup connected?
[19:45] <DanielRichman> It starts as one process
[19:45] <DanielRichman> that one process creates a pipe
[19:45] <Laurenceb> and its inherited by the forked processes?
[19:45] <DanielRichman> the process clones itself with fork, both children have access to both ends of the pipe, but typically they will only use the end appropriate to them
[19:46] <Laurenceb> along with all variables created at that time?
[19:46] <DanielRichman> yup
[19:46] <rjharrison> dlfldigi does this
[19:46] <DanielRichman> total clone of memory
[19:46] <Laurenceb> right
[19:46] <rjharrison> hey jcoxon
[19:46] <Laurenceb> so both cloned pipes are setup to talk to the same thing
[19:47] <Laurenceb> goofy
[19:47] <Laurenceb> but I guess if it works it works
[19:47] <rjharrison> hey DanielRichman http://www.robertharrison.org/images/various/Icarus%20III%20-%20Part%20Soldered.JPG
[19:48] <Laurenceb> nice... but rather large
[19:48] <rjharrison> Icarus III is nearly ready to test your uSD code
[19:48] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, a true work of perfection. If only our flight computer had SMD 1337ness
[19:48] <DanielRichman> you soldered that surface mounting by hand?
[19:48] <rjharrison> Yep
[19:48] <rjharrison> Still at it
[19:48] <rjharrison> :)
[19:49] <rjharrison> It's not bad at all
[19:49] <Laurenceb> I prefer smd to through hole
[19:49] <rjharrison> Provided you don't have the shakes
[19:49] <Laurenceb> its very easy
[19:49] <DanielRichman> nice
[19:50] <DanielRichman> I really should get my pcbs made professionally. It's so much more... well it looks more reliable for starters
[19:50] <DanielRichman> no internal temp sensor?
[19:51] <rjharrison> Yep it's the chip under the other temp sensor
[19:52] <rjharrison> the DS1821s comes in 2 flavors
[19:52] <rjharrison> Only 12 more 0603's to solder and one big cap
[19:53] <rjharrison> + ext temp snesor
[19:53] <rjharrison> oh and PGS
[19:53] <rjharrison> GPS
[19:53] jasonb (n=jasonb@dsl027-180-244.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:54] <DanielRichman> ahh
[19:54] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:aerosol
[19:54] <Laurenceb> thats how to make a small radio (at the bottom)
[19:58] <edmoore|away> rjharrison: board looks great
[19:58] <DanielRichman> I remember that, looks awesome
[19:59] <Laurenceb> DanielRichman: so you close one end of each pipe as a pipe is only unidirectional?
[20:01] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, I don't think it's necessary, but yes
[20:01] <DanielRichman> it's a good idea
[20:05] <rjharrison> edmoore|away thanks
[20:05] <edmoore|away> can't wait to see it fly now!
[20:05] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[20:06] <rjharrison> me neater
[20:07] <DanielRichman> be back later
[20:07] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[20:07] SpeedEvil (i=1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: "Leaving."
[20:07] SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[20:09] <Laurenceb> if I fork a process, where does stdio point to?
[20:12] <Laurenceb> say its started from a shell, so it will start of having stdout/in going to there
[20:12] <Laurenceb> but if its forked...
[20:21] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, the child shares the file descriptors with its parent, so stdout/in will still be to the shell
[20:21] <Laurenceb> interesting behaviour
[20:37] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host81-158-107-192.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.14/2009082707]"
[21:00] Laurenceb (n=laurence@hosts-137-205-164-238.phys.warwick.ac.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[21:17] Hiena (n=Hiena@ left irc: "Toons.hu webchat"
[21:21] <jcoxon> hey all
[21:21] <jcoxon> edmoore, seems like a consistant 30+ and we haven't had any launches to keep people excited!
[21:23] <natrium42> jcoxon, somebody should launch a plush falcon toy as a gag
[21:23] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@ joined #highaltitude.
[21:23] <natrium42> "oh noez, falcon is aboard the ballooon D:"
[21:23] <Laurenceb> FALCON.... BALLOOOOONNNNNNN
[21:23] <natrium42> [16:23] <natrium42> jcoxon, somebody should launch a plush falcon toy as a gag
[21:23] <natrium42> [16:23] * Laurenceb (n=Laurence@ has joined #highaltitude
[21:23] <natrium42> [16:23] <natrium42> "oh noez, falcon is aboard the ballooon D:"
[21:24] <Laurenceb> lmao
[21:24] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:25] <jcoxon> i've ordered some lasseniq breakout pcb
[21:25] <jcoxon> from seeedstudio though i expect them to arrive in about a month - especially with our crappy postal system
[21:26] <natrium42> bbl
[21:26] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "My other car is a cdr."
[21:31] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:32] <Laurenceb> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kids-Childrens-Scooter-Speedy-V-2xU-Brakes-NEW-R08_W0QQitemZ230388995366QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Sporting_Goods_Scooters_LE?hash=item35a4411526
[21:32] <Laurenceb> hmmm
[21:34] <Laurenceb> http://www.electricscooterparts.com/wheels.html stick one of those on the back and add 6500W motor :P
[21:34] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, whats with the scooter obsession?
[21:34] <Laurenceb> thats the proper way to do it
[21:34] <Laurenceb> I was reading that post on hackaday
[21:34] <Laurenceb> I think if you do it properly it could be very cool
[21:35] <jcoxon> i've just been thinking about the cnc hot wire cutter on hackaday
[21:35] <jcoxon> i've got an old scanner printer
[21:35] <Laurenceb> neat
[21:35] <jcoxon> which gives me 2 stepper motors and belts
[21:35] <Laurenceb> you could get 40mph out of that scooter XD
[21:38] <Laurenceb> lol a conference on freenode
[21:38] <rjharrison> humm
[21:39] <rjharrison> how do you check if the oscilator is working :)
[21:39] Action: SpeedEvil wants his hoverboard.
[21:41] <Laurenceb> make it a hovercraft?
[21:45] <rjharrison> humm oscilator not socilting
[21:47] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCE59.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:47] <jcoxon> osciloscope?
[21:47] <rjharrison> yep
[21:47] <rjharrison> not good
[21:47] <Laurenceb> on your avr?
[21:48] <rjharrison> osc. not working seems to be giving out a constant dc voltage
[21:48] <Laurenceb> fusebits set?
[21:48] <rjharrison> yep
[21:48] <rjharrison> and ot working
[21:48] <rjharrison> not
[21:49] <rjharrison> osc just gives 1v dv
[21:50] <Laurenceb> wrong capacitors on osc?
[21:50] <rjharrison> may be
[21:50] <jcoxon> bbl
[21:50] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-120-1.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Jesus.
[21:51] <rjharrison> ping edmoore
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> next year is 2010.
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> ...
[21:56] <rjharrison> This is oscilator
[21:56] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/svn/filedetails.php?repname=the-icarus-project&path=%2FIcarus+III%2Fdatasheets%2F8Mhz-Euroquartz.pdf
[21:56] <rjharrison> 8Mhz
[21:56] <rjharrison> any idea how I work out the caps to use
[21:57] <rjharrison> 12pf
[21:57] <rjharrison> is written on the case
[21:58] <rjharrison> I thought avr was 22pf
[21:59] <Laurenceb> nope
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Do you care about +-50ppm cock shit?
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> clock shift
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> if so, doesn't matter
[21:59] <Laurenceb> you have to match the caps to the crystal
[21:59] Action: Laurenceb shifts
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> I think the total caps in this case are effectively in series.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> so 11pf
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> I may be confused
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> OMG! A Lion! Get in the car! http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/10/19/article-1221391-065A3433000005DC-819_634x478.jpg
[22:14] DanielRichman (n=daniel@ joined #highaltitude.
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351329&postcount=1326
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> 310 quid for a n900...
[22:20] <Laurenceb> whats onbe of those?
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> If root on a phone with manufacturers approval interests you, it's a 3G phone/internet tablet thing.
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> With lots of shiny stuff.
[22:22] <Laurenceb> nice
[22:22] <Laurenceb> linux?
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> FM transmitter, 5MP, ........
[22:25] <Laurenceb> awsome
[22:28] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[22:36] <Laurenceb> gtg
[22:36] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@ left irc: Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
[22:44] BeeTeePoorlyHued (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: "( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )"
[22:45] natrium42 (n=alexei@akarpenk-mac.cs.uwaterloo.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[22:45] john (n=john@adsl.jcu.me.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:46] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[22:46] Nick change: john -> Guest14301
[22:54] <MikeMc> howdy
[22:55] <natrium42> hi MikeMc
[23:02] john__ (n=john@adsl.jcu.me.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[23:17] <MikeMc> what's up?
[23:26] RocketBoy (n=Steve@ left irc: "Leaving"
[23:29] edmoore (n=ed@ left irc:
[23:40] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCE59.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Verlassend"
[23:52] SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[00:00] --- Tue Oct 20 2009