highaltitude.log.20091016

[00:03] <rjharrison__> night all
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[00:07] <Sparky68> cya
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[06:23] <DanielRichman> Experiment begins! 6:15! Now i'magotoschool
[06:23] <natrium42> ?
[06:23] <DanielRichman> natrium42, payload tests
[06:23] <DanielRichman> seeing how long batteries last, etc.
[06:23] <natrium42> ah, finally
[06:23] <DanielRichman> pssh
[06:23] <natrium42> :D
[06:23] <DanielRichman> i got up 10 minutes earlier for this!
[06:23] <DanielRichman> now. Be back later today for results
[06:23] <natrium42> k, later
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[07:33] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:33] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[07:34] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!n=jcoxon@host86-168-218-188.range86-168.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk
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[07:58] <Sparky68> morning
[08:34] <natrium42> http://imgur.com/ALSQO.jpg
[08:34] <natrium42> XD
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[08:39] <gordonjcp> natrium42: lol
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[11:46] <SpeedEvil> la
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> oh - he's not here
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[13:02] <fuzzylugnuts> Hi
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> u
[13:03] <fuzzylugnuts> Ok, so got a uController question
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> 42
[13:04] <fuzzylugnuts> I need to have a little ADC that spits out its value every second via serial
[13:04] <fuzzylugnuts> I was hoping to use a small AVR
[13:04] <fuzzylugnuts> since I have an ISP for that
[13:05] <fuzzylugnuts> is this hard to do? I'd be happy with 10b resolution
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> you get those on ebay
[13:05] <fuzzylugnuts> really?
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> not really
[13:06] <fuzzylugnuts> i h8 u : (
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> well - as a first cut, yes
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RS-232-Digital-Multimeter-PC-Interface-Software-DMM_W0QQitemZ360090111956QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53d70b0fd4
[13:06] <fuzzylugnuts> way to big
[13:06] <fuzzylugnuts> but thats interesting to know
[13:07] <fuzzylugnuts> This is going to be for a hand carried unit so the smaller the better, since my hands will be full of other stuff
[13:09] <fuzzylugnuts> so basically all I need is a little AVR to read the adc every second and spit the value out via ASCII on a serial port
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[13:09] <fuzzylugnuts> it seems simple but I have not messed with them hardly at all
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> there are 'IO' boards that do that too.
[13:09] <fuzzylugnuts> link please?
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> I can't seem to find one
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> they are less common
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> what are you wanting to do with it?
[13:11] <fuzzylugnuts> see above port
[13:11] <fuzzylugnuts> er
[13:11] <fuzzylugnuts> post
[13:11] <fuzzylugnuts> thats what I want it to do, what I'm doing with it doesn't matter
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> yeah - but depedning on what the serial port is connected to there may be easier ways
[13:12] <fuzzylugnuts> noe
[13:12] <fuzzylugnuts> *nope
[13:12] <fuzzylugnuts> thats what i need
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> generally then all you need is the micro, adequate decoupling maybe an input buffer
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> Use the right micro, and you can stick it on a scrap of very
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> vero
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[13:16] <rjharrison> Hey master jcoxon
[13:16] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[13:16] <rjharrison> Icarus III is 1/2 done
[13:16] <jcoxon> oh great work
[13:16] <rjharrison> 2 slight mistkes on the board
[13:16] <jcoxon> serious?
[13:17] <rjharrison> 1) the LEDS are before the switch ie on all the time if power present
[13:17] <rjharrison> A 5mm of green wire will sort that
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Soldering is OK?
[13:17] <rjharrison> 2) The SMD footprint for the tempo sensor was a bit small but fixed with a blob of solder
[13:18] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil Soldering fine
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:18] <rjharrison> Mainly without flux as it makes a mess
[13:18] Action: SpeedEvil has always had bad luck soldering to gold
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> why gold at all?
[13:18] <rjharrison> Takes the solder like the poverbial shit to a blanket :)
[13:19] <jcoxon> oh that isn't pleasent
[13:19] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil that's how it comes
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[13:19] <rjharrison> jcoxon you've probably witnessed that too many times
[13:19] <rjharrison> Wait till you have kids
[13:20] <jcoxon> haha
[13:20] <jcoxon> i've seen lots
[13:20] <rjharrison> One of my dads favoite saying I can remember as a kid
[13:20] <rjharrison> sayings
[13:20] <jcoxon> rjharrison, i've intergrated checksum onto Atlas
[13:20] <rjharrison> How is the wx looking
[13:21] <jcoxon> for when?
[13:21] <rjharrison> is daniel richman going to launch this w/e
[13:21] <rjharrison> I saw words like long duaration testing ...
[13:21] <jcoxon> oh i don't think they are ready to launch
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> he's just running the payload for a while
[13:22] <rjharrison> oh ok
[13:22] <rjharrison> I see hab has been topical this morning
[13:22] <rjharrison> Kids etc ...
[13:23] <rjharrison> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8310121.stm
[13:23] <jcoxon> oh yes
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> I liked the bit in one report. 'rescuers are following the track of the balloon back, to attempt to find the child'
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Not from several thousand feet they're not.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> But happily it ended well.
[13:24] <jcoxon> :-( my radio module didn't arrive today
[13:24] <jcoxon> that makes me sad
[13:25] <rjharrison> 075
[13:25] <jcoxon> yes
[13:25] <jcoxon> maybe tomorrow
[13:25] <rjharrison> for B halo
[13:25] <rjharrison> or B atlas even
[13:25] <rjharrison> B=Balast
[13:25] <rjharrison> Ballast
[13:25] <jcoxon> i got that :-p
[13:25] <rjharrison> For the others
[13:26] <jcoxon> i've named my pcb atlas
[13:26] <rjharrison> :PP
[13:26] <jcoxon> so the flight is ballasthalo3
[13:27] <jcoxon> right time to start my weekend's project
[13:27] <rjharrison> which is
[13:27] <jcoxon> for a ballast tank what do we think is a good amount
[13:27] <jcoxon> (build the ballast tank rig)
[13:27] <rjharrison> 2 - 2 litres
[13:27] <rjharrison> 3
[13:27] <jcoxon> for a latex floater!
[13:27] <rjharrison> No
[13:27] <rjharrison> For TA
[13:27] <jcoxon> oh not TA
[13:27] <jcoxon> latex floater
[13:28] <rjharrison> 1/2 litre
[13:28] <rjharrison> .5
[13:28] <jcoxon> i've got a 250ml bottle here as well
[13:28] <rjharrison> Coke bottle or water bottle
[13:29] <jcoxon> water
[13:29] <rjharrison> Just keep in mind that the sand might not fall out
[13:29] <jcoxon> oh i'm back on liquid right now
[13:29] <jcoxon> haha
[13:29] <rjharrison> I would go for a half liter
[13:30] <jcoxon> yeah i think thats a good idea
[13:30] <rjharrison> Ok !!! Up and down like a prosis knickers on the liquid solid front
[13:30] <rjharrison> :-)
[13:30] <rjharrison> What poison are you sending up
[13:31] <jcoxon> still haven't decided
[13:31] <rjharrison> Keep in mind that 500g of solid mass may return on this launch
[13:32] <jcoxon> + tank weight
[13:32] <rjharrison> might be worth insulating the tank
[13:32] <Sparky68> Hello all
[13:32] <fuzzylugnuts> SpeedEvil: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8627 Sorted.
[13:32] <rjharrison> just for bounce off ability
[13:32] <jcoxon> rjharrison, i'm actually planning to completely intergrate it into the payload
[13:33] <rjharrison> Excellent
[13:33] <rjharrison> To keep the valve happy
[13:33] <jcoxon> density of ethanol is 0.79
[13:33] <jcoxon> so 500ml is 400g
[13:33] <rjharrison> ok so 500g including the tank then
[13:33] <rjharrison> assuming tank - 1`00g
[13:33] <rjharrison> = 100
[13:34] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:34] <jcoxon> let me go searching
[13:34] <Sparky68> is the launch going ahead this weekend?
[13:34] <rjharrison> jcoxon seaches the bins in the local vacinity
[13:34] <rjharrison> Sparky68 I don't think so
[13:34] <Sparky68> shame
[13:35] <Sparky68> got my FT-790R today - wanted to test it out
[13:35] <rjharrison> w/x not good and I'm meant to be away with the family
[13:35] <rjharrison> Will lauch real soon though
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[13:35] <rjharrison> Hopefully it might even be a record breaker
[13:35] <jcoxon> Sparky68, http://www.charlescoverley.co.uk/ham/repeaters.htm
[13:35] <rjharrison> right I have a meeting to go to for a couple of hours
[13:35] <Sparky68> thanks
[13:35] <rjharrison> ttfn
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[13:37] <jcoxon> Sparky68, and if not i'll send so transmissions your way
[13:38] <jcoxon> though i can only do 5w so don't expect much
[13:40] <Sparky68> i'll try out these repeaters
[13:40] <jcoxon> yeah more chance with them
[13:41] <Sparky68> i'm going to be in W. Sussex all weekend
[13:41] <Sparky68> nr. Henfield - so will try it out there too
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[14:03] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[14:03] <edmoore> yo
[14:03] <Randomskk> hi
[14:03] <edmoore> how's it going?
[14:03] <Sparky68> hi
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[14:04] <jcoxon> good thanks
[14:04] <jcoxon> you?
[14:05] Nick change: Sparky68 -> MikeMc
[14:06] <MikeMc> thought i'd best be known by my real name
[14:06] <MikeMc> :)
[14:06] <edmoore> hi MikeMc :)
[14:06] <edmoore> jcoxon: not bad, just finished lectures
[14:06] <MikeMc> howdy
[14:06] <edmoore> got a Control Group afternoon tea at 3.15.
[14:06] <edmoore> I love this place
[14:07] <jcoxon> edmoore, you'll miss it next year
[14:08] <edmoore> unless I stay...
[14:08] <MikeMc> anyone able to recommend a good broadband dongle service?
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> http://bash.org/?904758
[14:09] <edmoore> vodafone pay as you go has been great for me
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> MikeMc: I don't know
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> MikeMc: I use vodafone payg too
[14:09] <MikeMc> whats the limit on that one?
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> MikeMc: 15 quid gets you a gigabyte
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> MikeMc: and it doesn't expire
[14:09] <edmoore> £39 initially, of which £15 in 1GB
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[14:09] <edmoore> non expiring, yeah
[14:09] <MikeMc> 1Gb doesn't sound a lot
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> It depends if you're gonna use it a lot
[14:09] <edmoore> and i thought £15 for 1GB is steep, but tbh I bought it back in may and I still have £11 of credit on it
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> What's it for?
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[14:10] <SpeedEvil> If I'm not doing the p2p thing, I seem to sit around 3-5G/mo with normal traffic
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[14:10] <SpeedEvil> so it'd be ridiculous for that.
[14:10] <SpeedEvil> But not really for a backup connection
[14:10] <edmoore> for me it's perfect - use on bus, up on the roof of some place, out at balloon launches or rocket launches, or at a friend's house in london who doesn't have internet yet. but i don't do intensive stuff with it, just basic browsing and email
[14:10] <MikeMc> Just to use when i'm out and about - emails, IRC, MSN - Google earth tracking when the baloon goes up, etc.
[14:10] Action: SpeedEvil is currently trying to code a web compressor.
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[14:13] <edmoore> MikeMc: for me, it's actually been great for that
[14:14] <edmoore> as i say, I am honestly very suprised at how far 1GB goes when you don't go near youtube
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:14] <MikeMc> i like the fact it doesn't run out - a lot expire after 1 month
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> Also if you turn image loading off and flash off
[14:14] <edmoore> well, it doesn't run out, but you need to log in at least once every 3 months
[14:14] <edmoore> otherwise they assume you've died
[14:15] <jcoxon> edmoore, you mind me asking - what are the cusf plans for the next few months
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> http://threestore.three.co.uk/dealsummary.aspx?offercode=1MB5GD004&=1403
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> 15/mo for 5G
[14:15] <edmoore> jcoxon: rockety things. probably not that many balloon launches
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> but that's every month
[14:16] <jcoxon> edmoore, cool
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: The moon or mars?
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:17] <MikeMc> if you guys say you are satisfied with the Vodafone one and that 1Gb is enough i'll probably go with that
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> MikeMc: depends what you're using it for
[14:18] <edmoore> at least you're not locked into a contract if it doesn't turn out ok
[14:18] <edmoore> i'm sure there'll be people willing to buy it off you
[14:18] <edmoore> like us :)
[14:18] <MikeMc> yeah i don't want as contract
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> MikeMc: generally a good plan to log your traffic for a few days
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> to work out
[14:18] <MikeMc> yeah
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> you can also do buy 12G for 120 quid - which lasts for a year
[14:18] <MikeMc> cool
[14:19] <MikeMc> ok gotta go - thanks for the info.
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> Vodafone - the only issue I had was that the linux info sucks
[14:19] <edmoore> worked fine for me
[14:19] <edmoore> followed a tutorial on an ubuntu forum
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> The APN published for the thing was incorrect
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[14:33] Nick change: MikeMc68 -> MikeMc
[14:33] <edmoore> jcoxon: do you know who is trying a trans next?
[14:33] <jcoxon> hmmm i'm not
[14:34] <jcoxon> the are the SDG guys
[14:34] <edmoore> sdg?
[14:34] <jcoxon> they were planning an attempt this weekend with a superpressure
[14:34] <jcoxon> http://arhab.blogspot.com/
[14:34] <jcoxon> but postponed
[14:34] <jcoxon> then there is wb8elk
[14:34] <jcoxon> and pbh though haven't heard from them
[14:36] <MikeMc> back
[14:36] <edmoore> the race is still open then
[14:37] <MikeMc> anyone ever managed to cross the Atlantic ?
[14:37] <jcoxon> oh yes
[14:38] <edmoore> MikeMc: that was in answer to me rather than you
[14:39] <MikeMc> i gathered
[14:39] <edmoore> no amateurs have made it across yet
[14:39] <edmoore> that we know about, anyway
[14:39] <MikeMc> is it feasible?
[14:40] <jcoxon> yes sort of
[14:40] <jcoxon> it was nearly done 2 years ago
[14:41] <MikeMc> COOL
[14:42] <edmoore> it got to a few hundred km off the coast of ireland
[14:42] <MikeMc> then burst?
[14:43] <MikeMc> coming from USA i presume
[14:43] <edmoore> it uses a zero pressure balloon ( a different concept of balloon) that doesn't burst
[14:43] <edmoore> instead they reach some altitude and float there
[14:43] <MikeMc> ok
[14:43] <MikeMc> so what went wrong?
[14:44] <edmoore> the idea being you do it such that it floats in the jetstream and makes it across before too much helium escpaes from diffusion and day/night cycles
[14:44] <edmoore> it started descending
[14:44] <edmoore> they had no more ballast left to jettison
[14:44] <edmoore> it's something of a control problem
[14:45] <edmoore> whilst these zero pressure balloons (usually abbreviated to ZP around here) in theory float, actually they don't really
[14:45] <MikeMc> maybe a silly question but can they not carry a small caninster of compressed helium to put some back in?
[14:45] <edmoore> just do the notepad sums
[14:45] <MikeMc> weight too much?
[14:45] <edmoore> doesn't really add up when you look at the mass of such a system]
[14:46] <edmoore> a pressure container some some amount of helium almost always has a greater mass than the lift provided by its contents when allowed to expand to ambient
[14:46] <MikeMc> i see
[14:46] <edmoore> by nearly an order of magnitude for, say, one of our L bottles we use on the ground
[14:47] <MikeMc> ouch
[14:47] <edmoore> looked at making a ballast system when you dump NaOH through an aluminium gauze
[14:47] <edmoore> that would generale hydrogen
[14:47] <edmoore> and drop water back down
[14:47] <edmoore> but again, if you look at the quantities, it's trivial for the effort you'd put in
[14:47] <russss> heh
[14:48] <edmoore> i think the front to fight this particular battle on is a good control system for ballast dumping
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> CF tanks can help somewhat.
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> CO2 ballast balloon?
[14:49] <jcoxon> MikeMc, http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php
[14:49] <MikeMc> or fit a glider for the last leg
[14:49] <jcoxon> this is the 'UK' attempt
[14:49] <MikeMc> 2 stage
[14:50] <jcoxon> it'll be one eventually by the control system
[14:50] <jcoxon> pbh who hold the duration record didn't even have one as such
[14:50] <jcoxon> they just uplinked drop commands
[14:50] <jcoxon> snox's one didn't perform to plan
[14:50] <jcoxon> so if someone gets one that works then it should make it :-)
[14:50] <MikeMc> nice
[14:50] <MikeMc> best of luck
[14:51] <edmoore> check out http://web.me.com/dbowen1/Spirit_of_Knoxville_Published_Information/SNOX_DOCS_Blog/SNOX_DOCS_Blog.html
[14:51] <edmoore> all the info that the SNOX guys put up from their effort
[14:51] <edmoore> they've bowed out now
[14:51] <edmoore> the top graph should be instructive
[14:51] <jcoxon> they've sort of become the competition bosses now
[14:51] <MikeMc> nice
[14:52] <MikeMc> bookmarked that for later
[14:52] <MikeMc> why did they bow out?
[14:52] <MikeMc> too big a challange?
[14:52] <edmoore> graduated :)
[14:52] <edmoore> life etc
[14:52] <MikeMc> ahh
[14:52] <MikeMc> shame
[14:54] <MikeMc> ok got to pop to Maplins
[14:54] <jcoxon> it was such good fun
[14:54] <MikeMc> n
[14:54] <MikeMc> ttfn
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[14:56] <rjharrison> Hey I'm about finnished for today
[14:56] <rjharrison> Going home for a bit of soldering
[14:56] <edmoore> nice!
[14:56] <rjharrison> bbiab
[14:56] <rjharrison> Oh edmoore
[14:56] <rjharrison> Flux = mess
[14:57] <rjharrison> I used it on two components and then abandoned the idea
[14:57] <edmoore> mess?
[14:57] <rjharrison> They seem to solder just fine
[14:57] <rjharrison> Yep like see through glue
[14:57] <edmoore> sure, but you can clean it off with alcohol
[14:58] <edmoore> it looks grubby as hell when soldering but pays off :)
[14:58] <rjharrison> Oh ok so it's meant to look like
[14:58] <rjharrison> that
[14:59] <rjharrison> and then do you have to rub it with a cloth as it would be tricky to get around the edges of the components
[14:59] <rjharrison> Humm there is a flux remover pen too
[14:59] <rjharrison> perhaps that would be good
[15:00] <edmoore> they fluid is probably better economy
[15:00] <edmoore> we have a spray can thing
[15:00] <edmoore> i'd be liberal with it - it really does help, especially on re-work
[15:01] <edmoore> solder has a flux core usually, but once you solder it opnce, all the flux is gone
[15:01] <edmoore> so desoldering really beenfits from some flux
[15:01] <edmoore> ok, got to got to the department
[15:01] <edmoore> catch you later
[15:01] <edmoore> ]
[15:03] <rjharrison> ttfn
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[15:35] <SpeedEvil> no-clean flux is designed to not actually require cleaning
[15:35] <SpeedEvil> oh - he left.
[15:36] <Randomskk> I find the flux in my solder wire leaves more mess than the flux from my flux pen, anyway
[15:36] <Randomskk> the jelly flux leaves a huge amount of mess and is really tacky so dust sticks to it in seconds, but it is awesome for hand soldering tqfp etc
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[16:40] <DanielRichman> No way
[16:41] <DanielRichman> the payload has been running for 37455 seconds; and is still functioning fully
[16:41] <DanielRichman> way above the required 8 hours
[16:41] <DanielRichman> success!
[16:41] <DanielRichman> 10 hours!
[16:41] <DanielRichman> And after 2 hours it managed to get a lock in the garage
[16:42] <Randomskk> haha wow
[16:42] <DanielRichman> the phone ran for a full 10 hours sending smses too
[16:42] <Randomskk> though 2 hour time to lock is a bit of a pain
[16:42] <Randomskk> :P
[16:42] <DanielRichman> no that's cause it was inside
[16:42] <DanielRichman> when outside it locks in under 2mins
[16:42] <Randomskk> what chipset?
[16:42] <DanielRichman> Lassen iQ
[16:42] <DanielRichman> I was getting SMSes all day
[16:42] <Randomskk> (and yea, I know :P)
[16:42] <Randomskk> nice
[16:42] <Randomskk> phone dead yet?
[16:42] <DanielRichman> nope, just got another one
[16:42] <DanielRichman> gonna go retrieve it and see how long the camera lasted
[16:42] <Randomskk> so much for "it will only last through first period" :P
[16:44] <DanielRichman> Well I only had one period today since it was "commemoration" (celebrating school's founding) and we missed periods 2-4
[16:44] <DanielRichman> Holy--- there's no way
[16:44] <Randomskk> heh nice
[16:44] <DanielRichman> the camera is still taking photos after 10 hours
[16:44] <Randomskk> lol sweet
[16:44] <Randomskk> it's definitely been on for ten hours straight?
[16:44] <Randomskk> stock battery, what time interval?
[16:45] <DanielRichman> 20 seconds interval, no flash, autofocus still turned on though (cba to turn off), energiser lithiums
[16:45] <DanielRichman> Phone is still on 100% battery
[16:45] <DanielRichman> that is crazy
[16:46] <DanielRichman> Ok...
[16:46] Action: DanielRichman disconnects the phone to save credit
[16:46] <Randomskk> heh, the best kind of experiment result
[16:46] <DanielRichman> but i'ma leave the rest of it running to see what happens
[16:46] <DanielRichman> gonna go measure votages
[16:49] <DanielRichman> That's impossible
[16:49] <DanielRichman> voltage is still 8,96
[16:49] <DanielRichman> I think we underestimated the lithiums
[16:49] <Randomskk> by an order of magnitude
[16:49] <Randomskk> solution: change time interval on cameras to 2s
[16:49] <DanielRichman> haha
[16:49] <Randomskk> ten times the probability you will get a stunning photo
[16:50] <DanielRichman> that voltage was the one powering the computer
[16:50] <DanielRichman> need to check camera batteries
[16:51] <DanielRichman> Oh... that's not good
[16:51] <MikeMc> hello
[16:52] <Randomskk> lol what happened to them
[16:52] <DanielRichman> nah it's the camera i'm worried about
[16:52] <DanielRichman> looks damaged
[16:52] <DanielRichman> all the batteries are still on full power; 1.50
[16:52] <Randomskk> from sitting in the garage?
[16:53] <DanielRichman> Yeah, gonna examine the memory card soon
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> damaged how?
[16:53] <DanielRichman> will send you one in a se
[16:53] <Randomskk> did it take photos though, that's the important bit
[16:54] <DanielRichman> well, maybe not, trust me... you wanna see these
[16:54] <MikeMc> what camera is this?
[16:54] <DanielRichman> powershot a80
[16:55] <MikeMc> with a standard battery?
[16:56] <DanielRichman> lithiums again
[16:56] <MikeMc> impressive
[16:56] <DanielRichman> OH... that's weird
[16:56] <DanielRichman> photos are fine on disk
[16:56] <DanielRichman> just hte camera screen was badly broken
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> :/
[16:57] <DanielRichman> 1715 photos taken
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> Is this at full res?
[16:57] <DanielRichman> afaik
[16:57] <DanielRichman> 1600x1200
[17:01] <DanielRichman> So i think that counts as a success
[17:01] <DanielRichman> now I'm being harrassed so have to go; be back later
[17:02] <DanielRichman> ooh actually that photo looks a bit dodgey
[17:02] <DanielRichman> will deal w. it later
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[17:40] <edmoore> back
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[17:44] <natrium42> back in black
[17:44] <edmoore> no, am definitely in my overdraft
[17:44] <natrium42> pfft
[17:44] <natrium42> any newz?
[18:04] <edmoore> i'm about to eat. one meal to the next. such is life
[18:04] <edmoore> otherwise not much to report
[18:04] <jcoxon> natrium42, will have a pic soon for you
[18:05] <natrium42> cool
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> Consultation on implementation of the EU Directive on the placing on the market of pyrotechnic articles
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file52460.pdf
[18:10] <jcoxon> natrium42, that said it relies on me finding my camera...
[18:10] <natrium42> $> locate camera
[18:11] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> (for those in the UK interested in rocketry, and ignitors)
[18:13] Action: SpeedEvil is currently reading
[18:14] <jcoxon> natrium42, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4016602403/
[18:14] <natrium42> nice, does it work?
[18:15] <jcoxon> yup
[18:15] <jcoxon> need a hole in the top to let air in
[18:15] <jcoxon> need to source a small one way valve
[18:16] <jcoxon> or perhaps just run a tube up to the top of the payload
[18:18] <jcoxon> the plan is then to build the payload around hte rig
[18:18] <jcoxon> main flight computer + gps goes ontop
[18:18] <jcoxon> then secondary controls and other bits and bobs mounted to the frame with insulation all the way round
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> I think the above regulations would require some sort of recognised training - and insurance - if you are purchasing 'other pyrotechnic devices' - see part 42 on the definitions of skilled persons
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Which I think includes model rocketry motors and ignitors
[18:27] <MikeMc> more legislation to ruin peoples fun
[18:27] <natrium42> jcoxon: are you planning another test launch?
[18:28] <jcoxon> oh yes
[18:28] <jcoxon> this is what this is for
[18:29] <jcoxon> this time ballasthalo is actually going to test ballast
[18:29] <natrium42> \o/
[18:30] <natrium42> btw, have you seen the new SPOT?
[18:30] <jcoxon> you sent me a link but i didn't follow it
[18:30] <jcoxon> so no i haven't seen it
[18:30] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:30] <jcoxon> natrium42, we really need to put together a 'roadmap' for atlantichalo
[18:30] <jcoxon> :-p
[18:31] <natrium42> pfft
[18:32] <natrium42> i wonder if the new SPOT has improved satellite transmitter
[18:32] <natrium42> or did they just replace the horrible GPS module?
[18:33] <jcoxon> hehe, i think that sounds like a job for investigator alexi
[18:33] <jcoxon> alexei*
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> natrium42:
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> Why do you think they've done more than make it smaller? - repack and add a button?
[18:34] <natrium42> "Available in emergency-orange or silver color this fall, the new SPOT device is 30% smaller than the original SPOT, and boasts a more powerful GPS antenna that won't require an unobstructed view of the sky to work (a major shortcoming on the original device)."
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> could just be that simple
[18:35] <natrium42> it actually used the same antenna for gps and globalstar
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> they've stuck an amplified antenna/
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> oh
[18:35] <natrium42> so maybe that improves globalstar performance too
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> that looks like it might suck
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[18:40] <jcoxon> stupid relay doesn't fit into strip board
[18:43] Action: SpeedEvil passes jcoxon a hammer.
[18:46] <jcoxon> its okay will use the one off the last flight
[18:46] <jcoxon> stripped it before launch - who needs a cutdown anyway
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[19:31] <Laurenceb> hi all
[19:31] <Randomskk> hi
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[19:45] <DanielRichman> Ok. Bad things are happening to the camera
[19:45] <DanielRichman> ping sbasuita
[19:47] jasonb (n=jasonb@dsl027-180-244.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:50] <DanielRichman> I tracked down the camera problem to its first occurance
[19:50] <DanielRichman> http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/before_failure.jpg
[19:51] <DanielRichman> that's about a month ago
[19:51] <DanielRichman> we never reviewed the pics: this is what happened
[19:51] <DanielRichman> http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/after_failure_1.jpg http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/after_failure_2.jpg http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/after_failure_3.jpg
[19:51] <DanielRichman> And here is the problem now: http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/today.jpg
[19:52] <DanielRichman> ping SpeedEvil "<SpeedEvil> damaged how?"
[19:52] <DanielRichman> that's how
[19:52] <DanielRichman> ping natrium42
[19:52] <Laurenceb> crewed ccd
[19:52] <DanielRichman> natrium42, total success on payload tests. camera and computer (gps, sms included) ran for 10 hours, no problem
[19:52] <DanielRichman> natrium42, although aparantly our ccd is screwed :D
[19:52] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, :(
[19:53] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, fatality?
[19:53] <Laurenceb> the pixels are bleeding
[19:53] <DanielRichman> reping sbasuita
[19:53] <Laurenceb> which is odd
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[19:53] <Laurenceb> have you been zapping it with radiation or something?
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> Is this after a flight?
[19:53] <Laurenceb> maybe its the drive circuit
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> Oh no you haven't flown yet
[19:54] <DanielRichman> unless the chemistry teachers (that's the lab, in the first photos) where it occured. No idea what they've been cooking up... one of them is quite..... strange
[19:54] <Laurenceb> hard to see what would cause pixels to bleed
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> bad clocking of the chip, or power supply corruption
[19:54] <Laurenceb> yeah maybe
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> Or a failure inside the chip
[19:54] <Laurenceb> more likely than the actualy chip
[19:55] <Laurenceb> as that would suggest damage to the sensor
[19:55] <Laurenceb> unless
[19:55] <Laurenceb> its being heated
[19:55] <Laurenceb> maybe some sort of short is heating the side of the ccd
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> have you had it pointed at the sun while testing?
[19:55] <DanielRichman> nope
[19:55] <Laurenceb> I'd try measureing current consumption
[19:55] <DanielRichman> well
[19:56] <Laurenceb> but you dont have a defore damage reference point :-/
[19:56] <DanielRichman> not specifically, SpeedEvil. It's been on my shelf, might have had sunlight on it, but the shutter would have been closed
[19:56] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/before_failure.jpg
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[19:56] <Laurenceb> unless the shutter broke
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> mechanical failure is always popular
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> you've been doing a lot of cycles on it in testing?
[19:57] <DanielRichman> at the point at which it broke, not many
[19:57] <DanielRichman> i took 1800 shots today but it was broke before that, just hadn't noticed
[19:57] <Laurenceb> hmm the failure started as noiuse
[19:57] <Laurenceb> suggesting drive circuitry
[19:57] <DanielRichman> tell you what
[19:58] <DanielRichman> out of all the theories you've come up with... are any even remotely diyreparable?
[19:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/after_failure_1.jpg
[19:58] <Laurenceb> that looks like drive circuitry top me
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> It looks like some sort of bleed failure
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> which would imply it's inside the sensor
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> and utterly unrepairable
[19:58] <Laurenceb> the way it suddenly turns on
[19:58] <Laurenceb> might just be a regulator or something
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> or a problem with the drive
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> a regulator going screwy
[19:58] <Laurenceb> but then iut will have a smps ic
[19:59] <Laurenceb> which would be hard to source
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> but you then run into the problem of not knowing the volts
[19:59] <Laurenceb> might be worth looking with a scope
[19:59] <Laurenceb> to see anything obviously screwy
[19:59] <DanielRichman> hmm
[19:59] <Laurenceb> but failing that its not worth it
[19:59] <DanielRichman> what do you suggest I measure with the scope?
[20:00] <Laurenceb> yeah http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/after_failure_1.jpg suggests something wrong with the drive circuit
[20:00] <Laurenceb> just the supply voltages
[20:00] <Laurenceb> and current draw
[20:00] <DanielRichman> got it
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> Also - does it get better in very low light
[20:00] <DanielRichman> specifically have to be scope or multimeter will do? you looking for spikes?
[20:00] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, how low? moonlight low?
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> however low its normal light limit si
[20:01] <DanielRichman> i'll slowly dim the light to see what happens; brb
[20:02] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, if it helps, when I tried it today in absolutely no light the photos were totally black, ie, no strange pink bleeding
[20:04] tty1 (n=freemo@unaffiliated/electric-penguin/x-9957366) joined #highaltitude.
[20:04] <Laurenceb> hmm so its not really noise
[20:04] tty1 (n=freemo@unaffiliated/electric-penguin/x-9957366) left #highaltitude.
[20:04] <Laurenceb> its bleeding
[20:05] <DanielRichman> It does appear better in low light
[20:06] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, so unrepairably screwwed?
[20:06] <Laurenceb> most likely
[20:06] <DanielRichman> damn
[20:06] <Laurenceb> might just be noise on the supply rails
[20:06] <Laurenceb> or maybe some dodgy soldering
[20:07] <Laurenceb> check over the boards for anything obvious
[20:07] <DanielRichman> it's all buried inside, but i'll have a brief look
[20:07] <DanielRichman> measuring the current draw will be harder since i'll have to hack the battery compartment
[20:12] <Laurenceb> battery | wire | polythene | wire |battery contact
[20:12] <Laurenceb> and rig up to multimeter
[20:12] <Laurenceb> however without a reference point...
[20:13] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, is this a powershot?
[20:13] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, aye
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[20:14] <jcoxon> hmmm this is a common issue
[20:14] <DanielRichman> note that the bleeding is much worse on the lcd screen
[20:14] <DanielRichman> ie lower resolution; it's shockingly bad
[20:14] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, oh?
[20:14] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, one of those common issues with absolutely no solution?
[20:14] <jcoxon> a60?
[20:15] <DanielRichman> a80 I think; probably very similar
[20:16] <jcoxon> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=PgComSmModDisplayAct&fcategoryid=225&modelid=13390&keycode=2112&id=48264
[20:16] <Laurenceb> thats odd
[20:16] <Laurenceb> ah wiring to the sensor
[20:17] <Laurenceb> I guess some sort of gold bonding or something
[20:17] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, what do you think they will say if I roll up with a camera that has wires soldered to the shutter?
[20:17] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:17] <jcoxon> i had this issue about a year ago
[20:18] <jcoxon> a60 that died
[20:18] <jcoxon> was incredibly annoying
[20:18] <jcoxon> same 'symptoms'
[20:18] <DanielRichman> did it look the same as the picturse i linked?
[20:18] <jcoxon> yes
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[20:19] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, had you hacked the a60? did you send it back?
[20:19] <Laurenceb> unsolder the wires
[20:19] <jcoxon> no
[20:19] <Laurenceb> and neated the solder points
[20:19] <Laurenceb> use some flux
[20:19] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, slight problem.
[20:19] <DanielRichman> sbasuita disassembled it
[20:20] <Laurenceb> ah...
[20:20] <DanielRichman> "oh, we're never gonna need it for anything else..."
[20:20] <DanielRichman> crunch
[20:20] <Laurenceb> you could try and fix the sensor
[20:20] <DanielRichman> internal wiring?
[20:20] <Laurenceb> might just take some adjustment to the maounting
[20:20] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, safer to get a new camera
[20:20] <Laurenceb> it will be _very_ fiddly
[20:21] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, I _will_ fail
[20:21] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, I agree
[20:21] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:21] Action: DanielRichman delegates
[20:21] <DanielRichman> ALEX!
[20:22] <DanielRichman> Apart from that issue, btw, the payload w0rks (10 hour test, survived whole ten hours, (voltage under load only dropped by 0.04?) gps sms radio sd card all worked
[20:22] <DanielRichman> got texts throughout the day
[20:23] <jcoxon> lithiums are amazing
[20:23] <DanielRichman> THe phone survived 10 hours sending texts every 5 minutes; but i'm going to charge it and put it into the microwave to see how it behaves with no signal
[20:23] <Laurenceb> I'm guessing thge CCD is on some sort of carrier that solders onto a carrier pcb, maybe kapton
[20:23] <Laurenceb> it may just be the carrier pcb
[20:23] <Laurenceb> if you can try wangling it about
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> Or simply need replugging
[20:24] <Laurenceb> iyeah
[20:24] <DanielRichman> I will attempt that tomorrow, maybe
[20:24] <Laurenceb> if its the epoxy encapsulated gold bonding thats reather unfixable without specialist kit
[20:25] <Laurenceb> but that sort of thing rarely breaks
[20:25] <Randomskk> woo. foundation license practicals tomorrow
[20:25] <Laurenceb> plugs for kapton pcbs have been known to fail
[20:25] <Randomskk> I just press a few buttons and follow this script word for word
[20:27] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, SpeedEvil, jcoxon, thanks very much for all the help. Will have a go at it with a screwdriver and a multimeter tomorrow
[20:27] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, the internal stuff is crazy - its not fixable
[20:27] <DanielRichman> Okey, maybe I wont :P
[20:28] <jcoxon> i've tried
[20:28] <jcoxon> i've even tried a ccd transplant
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[20:28] <Laurenceb> forget the multimeter
[20:28] <DanielRichman> forget the screwdriver
[20:28] <DanielRichman> use a hammer
[20:28] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:28] <Laurenceb> I meant we know what the problem is
[20:28] <DanielRichman> true,
[20:28] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: you tried a new ccd?
[20:28] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, did it work after the transplant, just not fix the problem?
[20:29] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: was it on a kapton carrier?
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[20:30] <DanielRichman> It even got a gps lock inside the garage
[20:30] <DanielRichman> hmm
[20:30] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil1, "SpeedEvil, jcoxon, thanks very much for all the help. Will have a go at it with a screwdriver and a multimeter tomorrow"
[20:31] <DanielRichman> So thanks everyone; really have to go now; see you all tomorrow
[20:31] <SpeedEvil1> wve
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[20:32] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: what happened with ccd transplant?
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[20:36] <jcoxon> didnt work
[20:42] <sbasuita> : (
[20:49] <Laurenceb> what happened?
[20:49] <Laurenceb> any image?
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[21:05] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
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[21:22] <Laurenceb> http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7649/falcon.png
[21:22] Nick change: bt42 -> BeeTeeFourtyJew
[21:24] Nick change: BeeTeeFourtyJew -> BeeTeeFortyJew
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[21:30] <RocketBoy> anyone used mobile phone tracking?
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[21:31] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:31] <Laurenceb> its not that accurate
[21:32] <RocketBoy> what can I expect - withing a km?
[21:32] <RocketBoy> within
[21:33] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:34] <Laurenceb> depends on the mast density
[21:35] <RocketBoy> so - its mast, antenna and signal strength that locates?
[21:35] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:35] <Laurenceb> most locations its <1Km out
[21:35] <Laurenceb> city areas obviously a lot better
[21:36] <Laurenceb> 100m or less
[21:38] <RocketBoy> there are a few 3rd party service providers (e.g. World-Tracker & FollowUs) - I guess ther services are thae same (interms of accuracy) as its based on data from the mobile operators
[21:39] <RocketBoy> is there any mobile operators providing it cheap (I have quite a few tracks to make)
[21:39] <Laurenceb> not sure
[21:40] <Laurenceb> I had a tracking setup on my first balloon
[21:40] <Laurenceb> I think using FollowUs
[21:40] <Randomskk> I'm on the outskirts of cambridge but my phone has decided to connect to a mast in some fields ages away, it's out by 2.5km
[21:40] <Randomskk> (it's also pants slow)
[21:41] <Randomskk> town centre is about 1km the other way where it's really fast
[21:41] <Randomskk> stupid phone :P
[21:41] <RocketBoy> I guess I could use google locate if I got a AGPS phone in the payload
[21:42] <Randomskk> google latitude?
[21:42] <RocketBoy> yep - sorry
[21:42] <Laurenceb> whats that?
[21:42] <Randomskk> social location sharing
[21:42] <Laurenceb> ah
[21:42] <Randomskk> load maps, see a dot where your friends are
[21:42] <Randomskk> works either gps or cell phone mast location
[21:42] <Laurenceb> stalking service
[21:42] <Randomskk> yea
[21:43] <Randomskk> fairly comprehensive privacy settings at least but it is a nice idea in theory
[21:43] <Laurenceb> it probably triangulates properly
[21:43] <Randomskk> the reality is my phone has it, and no one else I know of does
[21:43] <Laurenceb> using a mast database
[21:43] <Laurenceb> and data from the phones front end
[21:43] <Randomskk> oh, except my friend in central london who just got an android phone too
[21:43] <RocketBoy> it worked on my iphone
[21:43] <Randomskk> quite possibly. it's usually pretty accurate
[21:43] <Randomskk> but right now is shit
[21:43] <Laurenceb> thats the proper way to do it
[21:43] <Randomskk> my room faces away from cambridge
[21:43] <Laurenceb> maybe you can only see the one mast
[21:43] <Randomskk> I guess the building gets in the way of the lovely hsdpa signals from city centre
[21:44] <Laurenceb> so it defaults to the signal strenght
[21:44] <Randomskk> yea maybe
[21:44] <Laurenceb> hsdpa?
[21:44] <Laurenceb> oh I thought that was US only
[21:44] <Randomskk> US gets edge, 3g
[21:44] <Laurenceb> oh yeah
[21:44] <Randomskk> we get hsdpa and 3g. plus gprs which is what my phone is on most of the time in selwyn
[21:44] <Laurenceb> I got it the wrong way around
[21:44] <Randomskk> I do get hsdpa when I head into town though so that's nice
[21:44] <Randomskk> and it is really fast
[21:44] <Randomskk> plus I can tether my laptop to it
[21:45] <Laurenceb> nice
[21:45] <Randomskk> but as long as I'm in my room I have the stupidly fast uni internet
[21:45] <Randomskk> =83Mbps down, 36Mbps up or more
[21:45] <Laurenceb> heh
[21:45] <Randomskk> =nom nom nom
[21:45] Action: Laurenceb has no internet at his house
[21:45] <Randomskk> D:
[21:46] <Laurenceb> my flatmate has 3G
[21:46] <Randomskk> one of those usb dongle things?
[21:46] <Laurenceb> I want to get talk talk but I'd have to pay the full bill
[21:46] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:46] <Randomskk> they seem kinda neat but still slower, more signal-variable and more expensive than just broadband?
[21:47] <Randomskk> that said I'm living in uni provided accommodation and not having to care about anything like phone lines or ineernet connections
[21:47] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:47] <Randomskk> blisfully ignorant of real life
[21:47] <Laurenceb> heh
[21:47] <Randomskk> for my part of the deal I just enjoy super fast internet for £5/term or wahtever
[21:47] <Randomskk> whatever*
[21:49] <Randomskk> pretty good deal really
[21:49] <Randomskk> but yea. any phone that can join latitude could work pretty nicely, but I don't know if google provide any way to get an actual position fix
[21:49] <Randomskk> that would be kind of creepy, after all. an API on where your friends are.
[21:50] <Randomskk> then again it's presumably ajax javascript loading a map so you could intercept that. or just use their map
[21:50] <Laurenceb> isnt google latitude just an gui
[21:50] <Laurenceb> your phone has to support some sort of positioning
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[21:51] <Randomskk> presumably something is required, depends on the phone too
[21:51] <Randomskk> some phones provide more access to that kinda data than others, some have better ways of doing position
[21:51] <Randomskk> whether you can afford to shove a high end phone into a balloon launch, on the other hand... :P
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> I commented way back that you can use a cheap GSM audio 'bug' and simply FSK GPS data over it
[21:52] <Randomskk> you know what will happen, though: you run out of credit ten minutes before touchdown
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Or course you do know you lose signal at ~100m altitude?
[21:53] <Randomskk> only 100m?
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> And may not regain it in the 30s or so when you're falling past that altitude
[21:53] <Randomskk> I guess the masts are not exactly pointing straight up
[21:53] <Laurenceb> more like 1Km
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> it may be that low - the antennas the cells use are tuned to provide a _narrow_ beam vertically
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> probable a bit more than 100m, but of that order
[21:54] <Laurenceb> we usually get to 1KM before losing GSM
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> k
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> Look at any mast.
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> The antennas are _much_ taller than they are wide
[21:54] <Randomskk> so just launch straight over one and try not to drift too much :P
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> Most of the energy goes out in a very narrow horizontal ovoid.
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Think lighthouse, not floodlight
[21:55] <Randomskk> fair enough
[21:55] <Randomskk> in which case it'd work nicely for sending you gps data after landing, I guess
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much.
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> If you don't fall into a hole in the coverage.
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22968
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28710
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> GPS->GSM bugs
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[22:36] Action: jcoxon has got his ballast tanks clicking :-)
[22:37] <jcoxon> something really satisfying about making things click on and off electronically
[22:37] Action: SpeedEvil wonders why they click.
[22:37] <jcoxon> solenoid valve
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> More satisfying if you make an earth-shattering-kaboom.
[22:38] <jcoxon> now to add some ballast
[22:38] Action: SpeedEvil needs to get his ECU soldered up for his solenoid valve and wheels collection.
[22:45] <jcoxon> yay its working
[22:46] <natrium42> jcoxon, needs more cowbell!
[22:47] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:48] <jcoxon> well its working with water
[22:48] <jcoxon> need to check it out with some other no freezing liquids
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[22:50] <SpeedEvil> helium-3
[22:50] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> I've been reading on MRI - there is some funky engineering in there.
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> I'd assumed they just charged them by applying a huge current forex.
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> But it's a wacky field pump thing.
[22:52] <jcoxon> sounds complicated
[22:59] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: I dont see how spread spectrum helps for slice selection
[22:59] <Laurenceb> I think use the standard technique for slice selection
[23:00] <Laurenceb> then maybe spread spectrum for reading out slices
[23:01] <jcoxon> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8310816.stm
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I have the feeling it should be able to
[23:03] <Laurenceb> think about it, how does it help?
[23:03] <Laurenceb> it just gives you a more complex interelation between the slices
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I have the feeling that if you input a 3D rotating field, you can extract data faster.
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> however - I haven't done the maths.
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> And this could be utterly wrong.
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> It's a feeling backed by little else - I haven't sat down to do the maths.
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[23:40] <jcoxon> natrium42, i think the new spot has a ublox
[23:40] <jcoxon> http://www.electronicspecifier.com/Wireless-and-Portable/u-blox-GPS-receiver-technology-selected-for-new-and-enhanced-SPOT-satellite-GPS-messenger-product.asp
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[23:46] <Laurenceb> http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/3545/missingcopy.jpg
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[23:56] <jcoxon> oooo http://www.lemosint.com/gps/gps_details.php?itemID=571
[23:56] <jcoxon> ublox gps module
[00:00] --- Sat Oct 17 2009