highaltitude.log.20091010

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[12:01] <juxta> SpeedEvil, are you around? I used your suggestion of a resitor to melt hot glue for a cutdown, it works wonderfully
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[12:03] <juxta> I made a cutdown device which works flawlessly, is stronger than the twine I was testing with (twine broke at ~10kg), weighs only a gram or two and is less than 1cmx1cm :D
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:04] <juxta> I didnt have any high temp resistors
[12:04] <juxta> so i just tested with regular 1/4watt or whatever they are
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I was just using that as it skips the hot-melt step
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> and melts the string directly
[12:04] <juxta> 10ohm did the job nicely with 4AA's
[12:04] <juxta> yeah, that makes sense
[12:05] <juxta> 1ohm was a little too quick, and would burn up before the glue actually melted
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> Also, it's within the spec of the resistor, which 10 ohm/6V isn't :)
[12:06] <juxta> to make a nice little neat package i chopped off a small (~1cm) length of drinking straw, inserted a string from either end, as well as the resistor, and filled it with hot melt glue
[12:06] <juxta> haha yeah.. i'm not too concerned about the resistor survivng ;p
[12:07] <juxta> I might try something a little larger than 10ohm though, and see how that goes
[12:08] <juxta> (or maybe halve the voltage)
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> I'm not so interested in surviving - the more important fact is - what % of resistors will fail before the cutdown
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> if you use it at the rated power - this should be 0.
[12:13] <juxta> yeah, that makes sense
[12:14] <juxta> I'll get hold of some more substantial ones
[12:14] <juxta> i also thought of using a small copper sheath rather than a drinking straw
[12:14] <juxta> to help even melting
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> easy and cheap to play with
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[13:46] <guysoft42> hi all, is this a good weather ballon to go up to 20-30km? http://www.scientificsales.com/8243-Weather-Balloon-1000-Grams-Natural-p/8243.htm
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> very high price
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> you're in hte US?
[13:54] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, no, i am in israel
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.novalynx.com/400-balloons.html
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> actually - i misremembered the price
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> yes, it will generally work
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> 20km is easy, 30km is getting towards needing to think about payload
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> but it's quite doable
[13:56] <Laurenceb> erm...
[13:56] <Laurenceb> be careful
[13:56] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, 400-8242 Sounding Balloon 800gm Natural $69.00 ? is that good enough?
[13:57] <Laurenceb> you'll start a new interfada if you launch that at the wrong time
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> And yes, I'd _really_ check out the legaity first.
[13:57] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, how many grams do i need?
[13:57] <Laurenceb> especially is a war zone
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> guysoft42: look above that - at the performance test specifications
[13:57] <Laurenceb> *in
[13:58] <Laurenceb> but yeah the price isnt that bad
[13:58] <Laurenceb> I think RocketBoy sells them cheper in the UK
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> that one specifies a 1130g payload and bursting at 28km
[13:58] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, i am going to contact a geophysics instatute in tel-aviv university. i know they launch small balloons, i was hoping to see how they get permissions
[13:59] <Laurenceb> ah you should be ok then
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> with less inflation, you get higher altitude.
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> though faster drift rates
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> which will be an issue in a country as tiny as yours.
[13:59] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, how far it can drift? because its a small county here. and i want want it to end up in lebanon
[13:59] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:59] <Laurenceb> try the CUSF predictor
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> 400km is easy
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> Or more.
[14:00] <guysoft42> 400km drift?
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> You need to - generally - pick a time when the winds are favourable
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:00] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, thats a problem
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> The faster the ascent - the more helium you inflate the balloon with and the lighter your payload - the less drift
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> and the same with the size of the parachute
[14:01] <Laurenceb> theres less jetstream that far south
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> the smalle rthe parachute, the less drift as it comes down
[14:01] <Laurenceb> so if you pick the right time
[14:01] <Laurenceb> you should be ok
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> What are you aiming at/
[14:01] Action: Laurenceb resists making a pun
[14:02] <guysoft42> from east to west the country is few tens of kilometres. and one side is a sea, the other Jordan
[14:03] <naxxfish> that reminds me, i was going to ask about where you guys get your balloons from in the UK
[14:03] <naxxfish> oh and hi :)
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> See the wiki again
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:suppliers
[14:03] <naxxfish> ah, there
[14:03] <naxxfish> i was looking around for that
[14:04] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, novalynx have no parachutes?
[14:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/
[14:05] <Laurenceb> thats what you want to use
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> run now for me, with the defaults, I get a range of 150 miles to burst, and 180 miles till splash
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> (heading more or less directly for you0
[14:09] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, where is the data coming from? does it use weather stations?
[14:13] <guysoft42> hmm, says its going to fly right in to jordan
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> It's from a NASA datraset that I forget the details of
[14:22] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, it seems its going to land in Jordan
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Depending on 'stuff' - this may be constant for much of the year, or vary on a day-day basis
[14:23] <guysoft42> shame, if we still had the Gaza strip, it should have just been enough to say in Israel
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> You can boost the ascent rate a little, and the descent rate a fair bit - though that means you need a more padded payload
[14:24] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, well, ill have to connect to meteorological people here.. it looks quite stable - wind from the sea
[14:25] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, hmm, tried to do it in a few days later, it falls already in the center of jordan
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[14:31] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, maybe if we go up to 20km, it will put us in the safe zone
[14:32] Action: guysoft42 plays with data input
[14:37] <guysoft42> ok, great. i managed to narrow it down to land in israel, sadly the dead sea is in the way!
[14:39] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, try with : lat 31.195979 lon 34.346842 . is this bad?
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[14:58] <SpeedEvil> is what bad?
[15:02] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, that is flying close to Jordan . the question is how accurate is the calculation there
[15:02] <guysoft42> ?
[15:02] <guysoft42> because a few kilometres are problematic here
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[15:13] <SpeedEvil> not very
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[16:59] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, hey, is it possible to launch from the sea?
[17:01] <guysoft42> i can get there with a boat. then launch it
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[17:03] <Randomskk> hi Jon_Apex
[17:04] <Jon_Apex> Randomskk: hi
[17:04] <guysoft42> is it possible to launch from a boat a weather balloon?
[17:04] <Jon_Apex> dont see why not
[17:04] <Jon_Apex> filling it could be fun
[17:04] <guysoft42> Jon_Apex, could you expect a complication?"
[17:05] <Randomskk> I can't possibly see how launching from sea could have more complications than from the ground.
[17:05] <Jon_Apex> I'm not sure what the CAA/AUS would say
[17:05] <guysoft42> Jon_Apex, what do you mean by CAA/AUS?
[17:06] <Jon_Apex> Getting launch permission from the civil aviation authority
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> He'sinisrael.
[17:06] <Jon_Apex> Ah OK
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> As to your earlier question.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> It's a weather forecast.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> It's as accurate as most weather forecasts.
[17:07] <Jon_Apex> Well the relevant govt authority over there
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> The closer to the time, thebetter.
[17:07] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, i have a friend with a boat, i better ask him first
[17:09] <Jon_Apex> Has anyone seen edmoore around recently
[17:10] <Randomskk> I think I saw him just under two days ago.. :P
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[17:31] <Jon_Apex> Randomskk: thanks :p
[17:33] <Randomskk> I got the whole tex-live latex distro from the uni mirrors but only 7MB/s ish :(
[17:33] <Randomskk> Fetched 575MB in 1min 16s (7493kB/s)
[17:33] <Randomskk> that was ages ago and it is still installing
[17:35] <Jon_Apex> ah
[17:35] <Jon_Apex> I need to grab a copy
[17:35] <Jon_Apex> is it on eng.cam?
[17:36] <Randomskk> well I just used the uni's ubuntu repo mirrors http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/pub/linux/ubuntu/ as latex is in the apt repository
[17:37] <Randomskk> http://www-h.eng.cam.ac.uk/help/tpl/textprocessing/LaTeX_intro.html
[17:37] <Randomskk> that page covers installing and using etc
[17:38] <Randomskk> http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/LaTeX/ has another guide thing
[17:42] <Jon_Apex> ta
[17:55] <Randomskk> Jon_Apex: dinner?
[17:56] <Jon_Apex> Randomskk: yup
[17:56] <Jon_Apex> Randomskk: just coming
[17:56] <Randomskk> seeya on my corridor I guess
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[18:45] <rjharrison> evening all
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> evening.
[18:46] <rjharrison> Did Hackspace Hackday in Leeds today
[18:46] <rjharrison> Gave a talk on Icarus
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:46] <rjharrison> Only ment to have 10 mins but they gave me an hour :)
[19:12] <natrium42> hehe, how did it go?
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[19:21] <rjharrison> Hey natrium42
[19:21] <natrium42> yo
[19:21] <rjharrison> it went really well
[19:22] <rjharrison> I have a few more converts
[19:22] <rjharrison> Hoping to get a bit of a team together
[19:22] <natrium42> excellent!
[19:22] <natrium42> :)
[19:22] <rjharrison> Make life easier if we can split the work out a bit.
[19:23] <rjharrison> Hackspace meets every second Tuesday in Leeds
[19:23] <rjharrison> There were 12 arduino boards there doing stuff when I got there
[19:23] <Randomskk> lol
[19:23] <Randomskk> arduino is in your base, owning your dudes?
[19:23] <rjharrison> I prefer my own pcb but given the cpu is 328p
[19:24] <rjharrison> it more or less the same
[19:24] <Randomskk> old arduinos are 168 or wose, though
[19:24] <rjharrison> yep there were a few of those
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[19:28] <rjharrison> hi DanielRichman
[19:28] <rjharrison> Insulation sir?
[19:28] <DanielRichman> hi rjharrison
[19:28] <DanielRichman> hahaha
[19:28] <sbasuita_> nope
[19:28] Nick change: sbasuita_ -> sbasuita
[19:28] <rjharrison> DanielRichman shall i send you some
[19:28] <sbasuita> rjharrison, this is getting a bit stupid now
[19:28] <sbasuita> alex is getting thoroughly messed about by the building trade
[19:28] <DanielRichman> yes
[19:28] <rjharrison> You need to kick arse DanielRichman
[19:28] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, yes sir
[19:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, we ring them up
[19:29] <DanielRichman> "DEADLINE APPROACHES, YOU ARE TWO WEEKS SLOW, GTFO"
[19:29] <DanielRichman> revoke payment
[19:29] <DanielRichman> then get some £3 polystyrene
[19:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, he's already payed them?
[19:29] <rjharrison> Pm me your address and I'll post some on Monday
[19:29] <sbasuita> this is madness
[19:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I don't know
[19:29] <rjharrison> or email me rharrison at hgf.com
[19:29] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, the aquisition of polystyrene is not our main worry
[19:29] <DanielRichman> the problem is that we have ordered this stuff (aparantly)
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[19:30] <DanielRichman> and what I don't want is for us to construct the payload with something else and then it arrives and they want payment
[19:30] <rjharrison> Well cancel the order and get your fortune back
[19:30] <DanielRichman> exactly
[19:30] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, get Alex on skype
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[19:30] <rjharrison> 3.99 here for more than enough
[19:30] <DanielRichman> or IRC; whatever
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[19:31] <sbasuita> rjharrison, are you offering to send us polystyrene?
[19:31] <natrium42> *cough*hardware store*cough*
[19:31] <sbasuita> exactly
[19:31] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i expect that rjharrison posting it to us will cost more than us going down to B&Q
[19:32] <sbasuita> yes
[19:32] <rjharrison> sbasuita yes
[19:33] <rjharrison> if you want
[19:33] <Randomskk> besides what would you use to package it :|
[19:33] <sbasuita> rjharrison, thanks, but we can get some more easily at local stores
[19:33] <rjharrison> I'll do it grais
[19:33] <rjharrison> sure art center is good
[19:33] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i'll call alex then and tell him to cancel the order
[19:34] <rjharrison> One of those card making shops. Possibly in that bit by Reading staion of it still exists
[19:34] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no, get him on IRC
[19:34] <rjharrison> There uses to be like a market bit
[19:34] <rjharrison> used
[19:35] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, winter approaches. I'm sure launching then would be less than optimal
[19:36] <rjharrison> It's not bad visability in the winter months
[19:36] <rjharrison> I launched on the 1st of Jan this year
[19:36] <natrium42> just make sure to do the styrofoam cutting under adult supervision
[19:36] <natrium42> knifes are sharp
[19:36] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so, he's going to call them and ask for a ridiculous discount, which they'll probably refuse in which case he'll cancel
[19:36] <rjharrison> lol
[19:36] <DanielRichman> ha
[19:36] <bittwist> yes, yes they are :|
[19:36] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no
[19:36] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, if he doesn't get us a cancellation
[19:36] <DanielRichman> I'll call and mcrage
[19:36] <bittwist> and remember, a dull knife is a dangerous knife
[19:37] <DanielRichman> We hardly use knives at our school
[19:37] <DanielRichman> lasers only
[19:37] <bittwist> niiiiice :>
[19:37] <DanielRichman> Can you laser polystyrene, do you think?
[19:37] <DanielRichman> sbasuita,
[19:37] <rjharrison> You must go to a private school then :)
[19:37] <natrium42> hmm
[19:37] <DanielRichman> Some plastics you can't since the fumes are poisnous
[19:37] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, grammar
[19:37] <sbasuita> rjharrison, no, grammar
[19:37] <Randomskk> my private school couldn't have afforded a laser cutter :P
[19:37] <natrium42> will a 30mW green one work?
[19:38] <Randomskk> well, that's a lie, they clearly could have _afforded_ one, they just didn't care about tech.
[19:38] <DanielRichman> natrium42, almost certainly. I once destroyed an oil tanker with one of those
[19:38] <natrium42> haha
[19:38] <Randomskk> hot wire makes cutting expanded polystyrene easy
[19:38] <DanielRichman> I am *not* hooking up a make-shift hotwire cutter
[19:39] <DanielRichman> that's more dangerous than giving sbasuita the knife
[19:39] <rjharrison> hot wire cutter rocks. I made one for making the payloads
[19:39] <Randomskk> pfft hardly
[19:39] <Randomskk> it's easy
[19:39] <Randomskk> two or three D-cel batteries
[19:39] <Randomskk> and a length of nichrome wire
[19:39] <Randomskk> cell*
[19:39] <DanielRichman> Hmm, fair enough
[19:39] <Randomskk> if there's a Games Workshop near you, they sell 'em. at a pretty silly markup.
[19:39] <rjharrison> Use a spare bit of wood for a guide to make nice straight edged
[19:39] <rjharrison> s
[19:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, watch the video simon uploaded on fb
[19:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, btw need to do flight computer testing
[19:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we still don't know how long it runs
[19:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, also a gps simulation
[19:41] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, and we should probably weigh up the payload and estimate the polystyrene so we can order a balloon/parachute
[19:41] <DanielRichman> Hmmm
[19:41] <rjharrison> DanielRichman http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus/cutter.jpg
[19:42] <rjharrison> This is my home made attempt at a cutter
[19:42] <sbasuita> rjharrison, nice
[19:42] <DanielRichman> That's unbelievably intense
[19:42] <sbasuita> rjharrison, what's the blue stuff?
[19:42] <sbasuita> rjharrison, anything special?
[19:42] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, nice rc car
[19:43] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, got loads of video on my camera
[19:43] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, tearing up the forest floor etc
[19:43] <rjharrison> Oh that was my first insulation stuff 50mm
[19:43] <rjharrison> but it was too heavy so I went to 25mm
[19:43] <sbasuita> So, two weeks of school till half term
[19:43] <sbasuita> We could probably launch the weekend of half term
[19:44] <sbasuita> providing weather/scheduling works out
[19:44] <rjharrison> HAB guys recommended 50mm but after temp tests I think we all agree that 25mm is fine
[19:44] <rjharrison> esp. if you have a camera on board
[19:44] <sbasuita> hmm
[19:44] <rjharrison> sbasuita subject to weather
[19:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, do those two flight computer tests tomorrow, mk?
[19:44] <rjharrison> which can be a bit of a pisser when you want to launch at a specific w/e
[19:44] <sbasuita> hehe
[19:45] <sbasuita> where can we get long term forecasts?
[19:45] <DanielRichman> well we have 10 days including both weekends of that half term
[19:45] <rjharrison> Just keep your fingers x'ed
[19:45] <DanielRichman> 9days
[19:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, gotta burn down the camera too
[19:45] <rjharrison> In my experience 24 hour forcast is the only reliable one
[19:45] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yes
[19:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what kind of gps simulation do you want?
[19:45] <rjharrison> 3 days often changes too much
[19:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, crossing the zero line in the uk
[19:46] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I fixed that bug :D
[19:46] <DanielRichman> remember the infinite loop?
[19:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, might as well do a gps test
[19:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, then use the data to prepare a software stack
[19:46] <DanielRichman> yeah, just a pain to rig up
[19:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, like get earth running etc
[19:46] <rjharrison> Yep send sim data to cross both thought in reality the date line is the one you will cross in the UK
[19:47] <DanielRichman> the device just ASCII-memcpys the gps data from input to output anyway...
[19:47] <rjharrison> Opps Greenwitch Meridian
[19:48] <DanielRichman> I swear after ogg vorbis encoding and decoding a rx-capture of rtty fldigi will decode it better
[19:48] <DanielRichman> maybe just flukey
[19:48] <DanielRichman> brb
[19:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, maybe it's the difference between live and hdd performance?
[19:57] <rjharrison> bbiab
[19:58] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, maybe... but I doubt that fldigi is modular so that the decoding end doesn't know where its data is coming from and treats it all equally
[20:00] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: i'm having problems with the nova chdk script and the A560 i'm using - i can get it to do video or stills but not both - what do you use?
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[20:04] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, when did alex say he'd call ?
[20:05] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, too late now. Probably tomorrow.
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[21:18] <mc-> Rocketboy, saw in the logs you were looking at a Class E push-pull.
[21:19] <mc-> don't think you need a push-pull to get high efficiency in Class E
[21:19] <mc-> rjharrison, how's the book?
[21:19] <Guest12735> woah. what. when did I time out
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[21:27] <SpeedEvil> (09:00:45 PM) Randomskk left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
[21:28] <Randomskk> yea, but
[21:28] <Randomskk> oh, I saw that because I'd already reconnected
[21:28] <Randomskk> it was freenode's fault :( I didn't time out to two other IRC networks or to my server
[21:28] <Randomskk> oh well.
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[21:29] Action: Randomskk is only sad for his irc uptime
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> odd.
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> freenode usually is the least picky
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> for me
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> In that it'll go 5 min without connection
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> before it discos you
[21:31] <Randomskk> a load of people timed out in a few other channels, I'm guessing a server went down somewhere. or a network link somewhere in the internet
[21:31] <Randomskk> but usually freenode are all about /notices apologising sincerely for any issues and thanking you for using freenode
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[21:49] <RocketBoy> mc: the reasons I'm going for the push-pull design is that the transformer does away for the need for a drain choke in the single ended design - and I need a transformer to match the line voltage to the power I want to achieve
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[22:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/xmacex/3999273234/sizes/m/
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> projectorfail
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[00:00] --- Sun Oct 11 2009