highaltitude.log.20091008

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[07:18] <jcoxon> morning
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[11:39] <jcoxon> hey guys
[11:39] <jcoxon> anyone seen this: http://mbed.org/ ?
[11:39] <jcoxon> was mentioned to me yesterday - looks interesting
[11:50] <jontyw> I bought one the other week, there's a code you can use on farnell to get one for £30
[11:50] <jontyw> I can look it up if you like
[11:52] <jcoxon> hey jontyw
[11:52] <jcoxon> its okay, my atmega168 will do for now :-)
[11:53] <Sparky68> Yeah the mbed looks interesting
[11:53] <Sparky68> like the way it has USB and Ethernet built in
[11:54] <jcoxon> yeah thats interesting
[11:54] <Sparky68> HAB guys - How do people add their project to the UKHAS page? is it just a case of editing or do you need to become a member, i.e. need permission from some uber-master?
[11:55] <jcoxon> could make a nice flight computer though might be a little bit of overkill
[11:55] <jcoxon> Sparky68, feel free to add to the list
[11:55] <jcoxon> we don't yet have any form of membership though its been discussed many times
[11:55] <jcoxon> one day i'll get round to sorting it out
[11:56] <jcoxon> but if you do add a project feel free to add yourself to the members list
[11:56] <Sparky68> OK thanks i'm just starting a project so will add it next week
[11:56] <jcoxon> cool
[11:56] <Sparky68> Also.. I believe you guys have a launch spot somewhere near Cambridge that has 'blanket launch permission ; or something like that. Is that true?
[11:56] <jcoxon> indeed it is
[11:57] <Sparky68> and could I use that?
[11:57] <jcoxon> we actually have 2
[11:57] <jcoxon> i'm sure they'll be no problem, there are 'site' managers as such, will need to discuss with them but they've never said no
[11:57] <Sparky68> ok and is there a fee?
[11:58] <jcoxon> there isn't a fee as such though you'll be expected to provide pints afterwards :-)
[11:58] <Sparky68> any launch I do will be either late this year or early 2010
[11:58] <jcoxon> fair enough
[11:58] <Sparky68> Oh of course - i'm always up for a beer or three
[11:58] <jcoxon> whats your background / plans?
[11:58] <jcoxon> (i've been away for a while so still catching up)
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[12:00] <Sparky68> No background. Never done it before. I run Earthshine Design (Arduino components mainly and Starter Kits). Want to launch a fairly standard balloon with Canon Ixus 400 and 173MHz or 433MHz RF link as well as SMS. I also want to get the payload to sent Twitter updates of it's popsitions,m alt, etc. i don't think that's been done before
[12:00] <Sparky68> *position
[12:00] <jcoxon> sounds like a great project
[12:00] <Sparky68> The Canon will be on a servo to tilt it up and down and the MCU will control that as well as switch the camera between still and video
[12:00] <jcoxon> cool
[12:01] <jcoxon> i recommend 433 for the downlink as there are more receivers in that range
[12:01] <Sparky68> Trying to think of some other things I can add too like temp and pressure sensors
[12:01] <jcoxon> the more sensors teh better really :-D
[12:01] <Sparky68> Well I have a few 433Mhz and I also have a 173MHz module
[12:01] <Sparky68> i am leaning towards the 173 as it has a much greater range
[12:01] <Sparky68> but lots of people use the 433 so not sure why
[12:01] <jcoxon> oh i know why
[12:02] <jcoxon> what recevier would you use?
[12:02] <Sparky68> well it was going to be received by another 173MHz module feeding data into an Atmega328
[12:02] <Sparky68> probably using a Yagi as the ant
[12:03] <jcoxon> yeah thats the issue
[12:03] <Sparky68> still researching so not even sure that would work
[12:03] <jcoxon> the receiver modules that are paired are rubbish
[12:03] <jcoxon> we get our large ranges by using ham receivers usually in the 70cm band
[12:03] <Sparky68> really? So what do you recommend. I want to get GPS data via the RF link
[12:03] <jcoxon> sure so i'd recommend using your 328 to parse teh data
[12:04] <Sparky68> But does that mean I need a licence to listen on that band? And how do you get RTTY data from a HAM receiver?
[12:04] <jcoxon> no need for a licence
[12:04] <jcoxon> as you'll be using licence exempt modules to transmit
[12:04] <jcoxon> and you don't need a licence to receive
[12:04] <Sparky68> so how is the receiver linked to an MCU?
[12:04] <jcoxon> it isn't its linked to your computer
[12:04] <Sparky68> recievers are designed for audio aren't they?
[12:04] <jcoxon> using something like fldigi to decode the sound
[12:05] <jcoxon> as you've connected your radio to your sound card
[12:05] <Sparky68> so the RF module transmits in RTTY and the HAM receiver picks that up as audio and the software turns it back into binary?
[12:05] <jcoxon> let me explain
[12:05] <jcoxon> yes
[12:05] <Sparky68> ahh
[12:05] <Sparky68> cool
[12:06] <Sparky68> and presumably the HAM receiver is used as the signal drifts and that recevier can be detuned?
[12:06] <jcoxon> so GPS --> 328 ---> Radiomodule ------------ receiver ---> laptop
[12:06] <jcoxon> yes
[12:06] <jcoxon> its got a nice big range
[12:06] <Sparky68> nice
[12:06] <Sparky68> ok i get it
[12:06] <Sparky68> that makes sense
[12:06] <Sparky68> and would in fact be easier
[12:06] <jcoxon> so we've taken it to another level...
[12:06] <jcoxon> as there are a number of us around the country
[12:06] <jcoxon> we all listen and feed in our data to a central server
[12:07] <jcoxon> which then plots it onto a map
[12:07] <Sparky68> and presumably the data from fldigi can fed into some kind of mapping software or google earth?
[12:07] <Sparky68> for tracking in a vehicle i mean
[12:07] <jcoxon> yes
[12:08] <jcoxon> we've taken fldigi and adapted it so that it auto uploads the strings - we call it dl-fldigi
[12:08] <Sparky68> do you guys use laptops in the cars with broadband dongles or do you use offline mapping software?
[12:08] <jcoxon> and it goes on to http://spacenear.us/tracker
[12:08] <jcoxon> usually laptops with broadband dongles
[12:08] <Sparky68> i see
[12:09] <Sparky68> so you're receivers are all fixed obviously
[12:09] <Sparky68> are there any pictures online of a typical radio set-up and antenna, etc. ?
[12:09] <jcoxon> ummmm yes, one sec
[12:09] <Sparky68> ..and, do you recommend anywhere to purchase the receiver?
[12:10] <Sparky68> sorry for teh spanish inquisition
[12:10] <jcoxon> np
[12:11] <jcoxon> have a read here:
[12:11] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[12:11] <jcoxon> and
[12:11] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[12:11] <jcoxon> right i'll bbl
[12:11] <jcoxon> will be happy to answer more questions
[12:11] <jcoxon> later
[12:12] <Sparky68> thanks
[12:12] <jcoxon> cya Sparky68
[12:12] <Sparky68> cya
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[12:34] <Sparky68> AOR AR8000 receiver - can i use one of those?
[12:34] <Sparky68> i've found anAR8000 online for £189 and a Yaesu FT-790 for £159
[12:40] <Sparky68> though i've now found some cheaper
[12:40] <Sparky68> but is an AR8000 just as good as an FT-790?
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[15:17] <russss> in case anyone is interested, I've just had someone come into #london-hack-space and say that they can blag us a launch slot for a cubesat...for free.
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> Woo.
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> Of course - saying, and ...
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> you mean one of those tube-things?
[15:18] <russss> no, cubesat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> yes - I know - exact specifications vary
[15:18] <russss> 10x10x10cm
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[15:18] <russss> apparently the ESA has a lot of launch slots for universities and they're not using them
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[15:19] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he had a few grand spare for a nice payload.
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> maximal size camera, GPS, magnetorquer, laser-comms
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> I'd like to also play with pulsed plasma thrusters, but those are harder.
[15:21] <russss> he says most of the available slots are to GTO, not LEO
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Oooh - shiny.
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Makes telescopes unfortunately hard though for cubesats.
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> GTO - I suppose has a really good life though.
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> That'd be what - 180*22000km or so orbits with a ~0 degree inclination?
[15:27] <russss> yeah
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> err
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> 44000
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> not GPS
[15:27] <russss> I dunno how much energy you need to kick a small sat into a full GEO. Probably a lot.
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> I think it's about 3km/s at GEO
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> however - to raise the perigee to - say - 1000km from 180km - will need almost nothing
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[16:10] <SpeedEvil> actually - 1.5km/s deltav to go gto-GEO
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[17:02] <jcoxon> afternoon all
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[17:07] <Randomskk> hi
[17:07] <jcoxon> hey Randomskk
[17:13] <RocketBoy> hiya jcoxon
[17:14] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[17:14] <RocketBoy> jcoxon it looks like fldigi doesn't do packet radio - is that right?
[17:14] <jcoxon> indeed that is correct
[17:14] <RocketBoy> :-(
[17:15] <jcoxon> what was your thinking?
[17:15] <RocketBoy> I wanted to use packet with 868MHz modules
[17:15] <jcoxon> well there are alternatives
[17:15] <jcoxon> and if you can get them to log i can put together an updated python script to upload to the server
[17:16] <RocketBoy> - flgigi alternatives - yes
[17:17] <RocketBoy> ah Ok - that sounds doable - there are a few sound card packet radio systems
[17:17] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:17] <RocketBoy> Ijust need one that logs
[17:17] <jcoxon> well truetty does packet
[17:17] <jcoxon> and that logs especially with akawaka's plugin
[17:18] <RocketBoy> yes - there is also AGWPE (old now) and KD5ZUG stuff
[17:20] <RocketBoy> So that sounds doable - i'll see if I can knock together a 868MHz system for the next flight (I'll also run 434 as a backup)
[17:20] <RocketBoy> 434 RTTY that is
[17:20] <jcoxon> sounds good
[17:21] <jcoxon> if you tell me which program you want to use i'll whip up a script
[17:21] <RocketBoy> ok
[17:40] <Sparky68> QUestion please....
[17:40] <Sparky68> to receive from a 433MHz RF module I just need a SSB receiver right?
[17:41] <Sparky68> So I could use any scanner?
[17:41] <Sparky68> I don't have to go out and get a Yaesu FT-790 or something like that?
[17:42] <DanielRichman> "I just need a SSB receiver right?": yes. (99% sure)
[17:42] <DanielRichman> "So I could use any scanner?" No.
[17:42] <DanielRichman> FT-790 receives SSB nicely, but SSB support is becoming rarer and rarer
[17:42] <DanielRichman> but you'll have to ask one of the HAMs
[17:42] <DanielRichman> ping jcoxon
[17:43] <RocketBoy> most scanners don't support ssb - some do
[17:43] <Sparky68> But a lot of scanners, e.g. the AR8200, have USB and LSB
[17:43] <jcoxon> hey
[17:43] <Sparky68> so would one of those be just as good as the Yaesu?
[17:43] <jcoxon> pretty much yes
[17:43] <jcoxon> would be worth comparing the sensitivies
[17:43] <RocketBoy> eg YUPITERU 7100 does - but most scanners are cr*p anyway
[17:44] <jcoxon> the AR8200 is good
[17:44] <Sparky68> in what way are they crap?
[17:44] <RocketBoy> the 7100 is normally accepted as a good scanner
[17:44] <jcoxon> junderwood uses it to recevie balloon telem
[17:44] <jcoxon> Sparky68, the senstivity isn't as good as the ham radios
[17:44] <RocketBoy> image regection, sensitivity, spuri to name a few
[17:45] <DanielRichman> Hmm. I think (not 100% sure since I've since deleted the files I was testing on), that if I RX capture, encode to ogg vorbis, decode and playback, I get a better decode than I did when i was doing it ilve
[17:45] <Sparky68> i'd rather buy a scanner that wil let me receive a wide range of frequencies than something like the FT-790 which has a narrow range
[17:45] <RocketBoy> for example the 7100 is 6db worse than my old FT790
[17:45] <Sparky68> as long as they are suitable for the job of course
[17:45] <RocketBoy> 6db is equal to double the distance
[17:47] <RocketBoy> the 6db is just the sensitivity difference
[17:47] <jcoxon> Sparky68, its a tough one to work out - in the end i went for a ft817
[17:47] <jcoxon> more expensive but excellent for HF, VHF and UHF
[17:47] <RocketBoy> the 7100 has a 10KHz wide SSB filter
[17:47] <jcoxon> having HF makes it good for any trans-atlantic balloon flights :-p
[17:48] <Sparky68> is that good or bad
[17:48] <RocketBoy> you pays youe money and takes your choice as far as radios go
[17:48] <Sparky68> AR8200 MK III has a 3KHz SSB filter
[17:48] <RocketBoy> the more you pay the more get
[17:52] <Sparky68> so... to wrap up, would the AR8200 be good or would I be better off with a 70cm HAM receiver?
[17:53] <Sparky68> how much is the sensitivity different?
[17:53] <Sparky68> Is it a minor or a major difference?
[17:53] <RocketBoy> the AR8200 has 0.3uV sensitivity for SSB - which is fair but not excellent
[17:54] <Sparky68> ok so with a budget of around £300 what would be the kind of thing to look for?
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[17:55] <jcoxon> Sparky68, the ft-790 can be got for around ?100
[17:55] <jcoxon> thats usually the one we recommend
[17:56] <jcoxon> however its very balloon orientated
[17:56] <Sparky68> cheapest i've seen is a 2nd hand one at radioworld.co.uk for £159
[17:56] <jcoxon> ebay 100 usually
[17:56] <RocketBoy> the FT817 has 0.125uV sensitivity on the same frequency - so greater than 6db better than the AR8200
[17:56] <jcoxon> they come up every month or so
[17:56] <Sparky68> i've not seen any cheap one son ebay
[17:57] <Sparky68> and the 817 has been expensive everywhere i've looked
[17:57] <jcoxon> yeah its not cheap
[17:57] <jcoxon> but its incredible
[17:57] <RocketBoy> the FT817 has 0.18uV sensitivity for SSB
[17:59] <jcoxon> pah there is a AR8200 on ebay for ?50
[17:59] <jcoxon> though with 6 days it'll probably go up :-)
[18:00] <RocketBoy> YUPITERU 7100's go for about £100 on ebay
[18:00] <Sparky68> i'm trying to see if there is a cheap 817 online anywhere
[18:00] <jcoxon> okay my summary, if you want to just use 434 which is pretty much what we always use go for a ft790r
[18:00] <jcoxon> if you are generally interested in other radio listening for for a scanner
[18:01] <jcoxon> and if you are tempted by transmitting and getting a licence (not difficult to get) then wait a bit and stretch to a 817
[18:01] <Sparky68> well priority is good reception from the balloon
[18:02] <RocketBoy> I bought a IC-R7000 (which is a 25MHz to 2GHz reciver) for £200 recently
[18:02] <RocketBoy> thats not the same as a IC-7000
[18:03] <jcoxon> one a side note - whats more important for video playback - processor or ram?
[18:03] <Sparky68> maybe i'll just hang on a bit and get an 817 if that is what is recommended
[18:04] <jcoxon> trying to decide which old laptop to connect to my new hd tv
[18:04] <RocketBoy> AR8200s go for about £170 on ebay
[18:06] <RocketBoy> my bet would be RAM assuming the processor was at least 1GHz
[18:06] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:06] <RocketBoy> and assuming your not talking HD
[18:06] <jcoxon> 1.33Ghz + 256mb ram OR 550Mhz + 768Mb ram
[18:06] <Sparky68> anyway... thanks for your help guys
[18:07] <jcoxon> Sparky68, no problem - hope it helped , i understand we othered a lot of confliciting ideas! :-D
[18:07] <jcoxon> offered*
[18:07] <Sparky68> :D
[18:07] <RocketBoy> no idea - swap the ram and make one decent nachine
[18:07] <Sparky68> no probs - lots of time to research anyway
[18:08] <jcoxon> there is going to be a launch soon so you can see how the distributed listener system
[18:08] <jcoxon> works
[18:08] <RocketBoy> Sparky68:np - perhaps I should try to do a pros and cons on the wiki
[18:10] <RocketBoy> I'm playimg with 500mW 868MHz FM systems at the moment - you may be able to use a standard £20 reciever module for that
[18:27] Nick change: jasonb_ -> jasonb
[18:31] <sbasuita> jcoxon, if you can't swap the ram then go for the 1.33 ghz
[18:31] <sbasuita> else you'll be struggling with high quality video
[18:32] <jcoxon> just installing vlc to see which works best
[18:39] <jcoxon> sbasuita, they are G4 processors so you never really know if they work well or not untill you try
[18:41] <sbasuita> jcoxon, well I guess if they're different arches then that will make a difference - I was just assuming a higher clockrate would indicate a newer computer
[18:41] <jcoxon> yes i think G4s have some funny co-processor thingy
[18:42] <jcoxon> will get back to you with the results :-p
[18:42] <jcoxon> get my new 37" tv tomorrow - very excited
[18:42] <sbasuita> ooh nice
[18:42] <sbasuita> what make?
[18:42] <jcoxon> LG
[18:43] <jcoxon> annoyingly my xbox360 is old so doesn't have an hdmi port
[18:43] <sbasuita> component?
[18:43] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:43] <sbasuita> What's the difference?
[18:43] <jcoxon> its debatable apparently
[18:44] <jcoxon> and varies between tv
[18:44] <jcoxon> some say there isn't any
[18:44] <jcoxon> but others say hdmi is superior
[18:44] <jcoxon> that said we've been using composite for so long i don't think it'll really matter :-p
[18:47] <RocketBoy> HDMI is noticably better for normal content and essential for HD IMO
[18:48] <jcoxon> not sure i can afford a new xbox :-p
[18:48] <RocketBoy> for example my sky+ box (HDMI) on non HD channels is way better than composite from my old sky box
[18:49] <jcoxon> component is better then composite
[18:49] <RocketBoy> component
[18:49] <jcoxon> oh right
[18:49] <RocketBoy> scart
[18:50] <jcoxon> component is different to scart isn't it
[18:51] <sbasuita> I think SCART uses seperate RGB pins
[18:52] <RocketBoy> I thought RGB was component?
[18:52] <jcoxon> isn't that composite
[18:52] <jcoxon> oh wait
[18:52] <jcoxon> composite is just 1 line
[18:52] <DanielRichman> yes
[18:52] <jcoxon> component is RGB
[18:52] <DanielRichman> composite is Red, Green and blue on 1 line
[18:52] <DanielRichman> and another for audio
[18:52] <jcoxon> sorry is being slow
[18:52] <DanielRichman> component is 5 lines
[18:52] <DanielRichman> R, G, B, L, R
[18:52] <sbasuita> actually, SCART has pins for composite as well as component
[18:52] <RocketBoy> well LR is the audio
[18:52] <DanielRichman> SCART has pins for EVERYTHING!
[18:53] <DanielRichman> yes, true
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[18:53] <DanielRichman> TV leads are a mess
[18:54] <jcoxon> how about DVI :-p
[18:54] <jcoxon> just kidding
[18:54] <DanielRichman> DVI is so messed up
[18:54] <jcoxon> (DVI is HDMI - Audio)
[18:54] <DanielRichman> there's like several versions of the connector
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[18:54] <DanielRichman> which are not compatible, etc.
[18:54] <DanielRichman> be back later
[18:54] <jcoxon> wow vlc plays this avi well on the g4 550mhz, 768mb ram
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> The RGB pins of SCART may not in fact be used
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> even if htey are rhere
[18:55] <Randomskk> dvi cables and plugs can carry vga for dvi-i or dvi-a
[18:55] <Randomskk> vs dvi-d which is just digital and so identical to hdmi but a different connector?
[18:55] <Randomskk> you can see what apple are getting at with this lightpeak idea
[18:56] <RocketBoy> the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
[18:56] <Randomskk> :p
[18:56] <DanielRichman> Today we will examine the benefits of standards and come to a convention as to whether they are worth using
[18:57] <DanielRichman> *up with
[18:57] <DanielRichman> The problem with "standards" is that they are not, really, standard at all
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[19:12] Nick change: bt42 -> Tupac
[19:13] Nick change: Tupac -> bt42
[19:21] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, did you see the link posted earlier about www.mbed.org ?
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[19:25] <RocketBoy> nope - just reading npw
[19:25] <RocketBoy> now
[19:27] <jcoxon> can be got for ?30 on farnell apparently
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[19:38] <RocketBoy> yeah - it looks cool - the price is right
[19:38] <DanielRichman> an ARM Arduino
[19:38] <DanielRichman> does it run linux?
[19:39] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, yeah, it does look good, jontyw has one ordered so i might check it out at the next london hack space
[19:39] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, i don't think so
[19:39] <DanielRichman> aww
[19:40] <RocketBoy> 100 MHz ARM with 64 KB of SRAM, 512 KB of Flash - seems just about right for me
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> I wish tincantools.com 's offering was 1/3 the price
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[19:40] <RocketBoy> I'd like to know the current draw
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> You can't draw much on a currant. It's quite small, and there are all those wrinkles.
[19:41] <RocketBoy> and I haven't found anything about the operating envionment - I assume is single task
[19:41] <jcoxon> apparently they are based in cambridge
[19:41] <jcoxon> uk that is
[19:42] <RocketBoy> ah - that may have been the guys that approached some of the EARS guys a few months ago
[19:42] <DanielRichman> need to make one of those that runs linux, defo
[19:44] Nick change: bt42 -> bittwist
[19:46] <RocketBoy> yeah - that would make it ideal for me
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[19:48] <jcoxon> ping jontyw
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[19:51] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: too small
[19:51] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, yeah
[19:51] <DanielRichman> Needs a sd card hdd
[19:51] <jcoxon> you could run an rtos
[19:51] <SpeedEvil> RAM I mean
[19:51] <DanielRichman> and perhaps some more beef on the ram
[19:51] <DanielRichman> and while we're at it, a graphics card
[19:51] <DanielRichman> maybe wireless
[19:51] <DanielRichman> damn...
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mini2440-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen_W0QQitemZ120468760959QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0c7f697f&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
[19:52] <DanielRichman> :O
[19:53] Action: DanielRichman avoids looking for too long
[19:53] <DanielRichman> my face was melting
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Product-Level-Samsung-S3C2440-ARM9-ARM-Core-Board_W0QQitemZ110413382725QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b5268445&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> hmm
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[19:58] <gordonjcp> ooooooooooooo
[19:58] <gordonjcp> getting one
[20:00] <jcoxon> maybe we can get a deal for #highaltitude users
[20:04] <gordonjcp> I really like that touchscreen deelie
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> It does look shiny
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> USB1, which is a pity, but...
[20:06] <jcoxon> oh right i thought you meant the mbed
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[20:13] <rjharrison> Evening all
[20:13] <rjharrison> Still waiting for the PCB for Icarus III to arrive
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> ven
[20:13] <rjharrison> DanielRichman any sign of the insulation
[20:13] <rjharrison> hi SpeedEvil
[20:14] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[20:14] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, alex promises me saturday
[20:15] <jcoxon> haha
[20:16] <rjharrison> Ji jcoxon
[20:16] <rjharrison> hi
[20:16] <rjharrison> lol
[20:16] <rjharrison> how are we all doing
[20:16] <jcoxon> good thanks
[20:16] <jcoxon> been designing valves...
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> magnetrons?
[20:17] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:ballasthalo:flight3:valvedesign
[20:17] <rjharrison> oooh nice did you have time to think about hab in Ghana
[20:17] <Randomskk> I got my set of data books and did some engineering drawing. :o
[20:18] <rjharrison> jcoxon cool
[20:18] <rjharrison> hey Randomskk sounds like your having fun
[20:18] <Randomskk> heh guess so
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[20:18] <jcoxon> rjharrison, any plans for the next launch?
[20:18] <jcoxon> are you waiting to get the pcb made up for that launch?
[20:19] <akbar> printed circuit board
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[20:22] <rjharrison> jcoxon I'll lauch icarus II for an alt attempt
[20:22] <jcoxon> right
[20:22] <rjharrison> But ideally new PCB Icarus III
[20:23] <rjharrison> Be a good soak test
[20:23] <jcoxon> true true
[20:23] <rjharrison> PCB should be here tomorrow
[20:23] <jcoxon> i'll start watching the weather
[20:23] <rjharrison> fingers x'ed
[20:23] <rjharrison> Yep do that. I have all kit inc. helium
[20:24] <rjharrison> First suitable w/e
[20:24] <jcoxon> just setting up my new desk - now have 3 mac laptops
[20:24] <rjharrison> BTW how was hackaday?
[20:24] <rjharrison> hehe
[20:24] <jcoxon> hackspace was good
[20:24] <jcoxon> got my ds1820 temp sensor working
[20:24] <jcoxon> on my arduino and chatted to a number of people about ballooning
[20:24] <rjharrison> Cool I'm going to Leeds hackday on saturday
[20:24] <rjharrison> cool using the 1wire interface
[20:24] <jcoxon> yeah
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[20:25] <rjharrison> I have a library for the onewire on the svn
[20:25] <jcoxon> i've got a lib as well
[20:25] <rjharrison> they are nice and you don't have clibration issuews
[20:26] <jcoxon> yeAH
[20:26] <jcoxon> oops
[20:26] <jcoxon> am going to make a test rig for that valve design
[20:27] <rjharrison> You are going to like Icarus III. I'm using PWM to rotate the camera using a servo
[20:27] <jcoxon> :-)
[20:27] <rjharrison> and sending timed power bursts over usb to trigger video or 8,2,1 picture sequences
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[20:29] <rjharrison> The new versions of chdk allow you to retun in 10's of milli seconds how long the power burst is
[20:29] <rjharrison> the you can say if 50ms do video if 100ms do 8 pics if 150ms do 2 pics ...
[20:29] <jcoxon> oh thats cool
[20:30] <rjharrison> This means that the camera stays in sync with the servo
[20:30] <jcoxon> bbl
[20:30] <rjharrison> me too
[20:31] <rjharrison> chat later guys
[20:31] <rjharrison> BTW RocketBoy did you get my cheque
[20:31] <RocketBoy> yep ta - banked
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[21:34] <edmoore> jcoxon: greetings!
[21:45] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[21:45] <edmoore> how's it going?
[21:45] <jcoxon> good thanks
[21:45] <jcoxon> you?
[21:46] <edmoore> not bad
[21:46] <edmoore> just had daY 1 of lectures
[21:46] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:47] <Randomskk> dimensional analysis is a joke
[21:47] <Randomskk> does it get harder
[21:48] <Randomskk> I mean, seriously, examples paper, "6ft = ____m"
[21:49] <jcoxon> oh it'll get harder - don't get cocky!
[21:49] <Randomskk> hehe good good
[21:50] <Randomskk> drawing is fun
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[21:50] <Laurenceb> hi
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[21:51] <Randomskk> hi
[21:51] <Laurenceb> if you ever want to convince yourself you're normal, spend a night out with some physicists
[21:53] <jcoxon> haha, Laurenceb you are a physicist aren't you?
[21:53] <Laurenceb> yes but...
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> dimensional analysis is handy
[21:54] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> It can also tell you stuff you diddn't think of immediately
[21:55] <Randomskk> true
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> For example, that miles per gallon of a car can be thought of as the area of a rod of fuel the car would need to use.
[21:55] <Laurenceb> the conversation alternates between Linux/Mac, Final Fantas
[21:56] <Laurenceb> vrs WOW
[21:56] <Laurenceb> and Crack vrs Cannabis
[21:56] <Laurenceb> theres got to be something more sane to talk about
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[21:59] <Laurenceb> http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/sumatraquake_10_05/s16_20617499.jpg
[22:02] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: that problem with bulkheads I was talking about - its easily solved using alu alloy honeycomb
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> Is it actually worth the weight - over simply flat?
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[22:04] <Laurenceb> I think so
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[22:05] <Laurenceb> you can make a 5MPa 47mm diameter bulkhead weigh <4.2grams
[22:05] <Laurenceb> cant see that happening with flat
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[22:08] <SpeedEvil> umm
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> that's only 11kg
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:08] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[22:09] <natrium42> yo jcoxon, how are you?
[22:09] <natrium42> still in ghana?
[22:09] <jcoxon> good thanks
[22:09] <jcoxon> no i'm back
[22:09] <natrium42> oh, cool
[22:09] <natrium42> :)
[22:10] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: 900Kg
[22:11] Action: SpeedEvil ponders where the error is.
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> 50mm is about 20cm^2, so 20Kg or so at 1 bar, or .1MPa so 1000Kg
[22:12] Action: SpeedEvil should just guesstimate, and not try to calculate stuff.
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> I hadn't realised the force was that high
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[22:17] <Laurenceb> 5MPa
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> yeah - 20*50
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> I left that out
[22:30] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8297934.stm
[22:30] Action: Laurenceb wants
[22:31] <Laurenceb> but... wasnt this already demonstrated in pacemakers
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[22:33] <Randomskk> it mentions pacemakers at the end of the article
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[22:35] <Sparky68> Hello
[22:37] <jcoxon> hi Sparky68
[22:37] <Sparky68> How is everyone?
[22:41] <Sparky68> That good ay?!
[22:43] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:46] Action: Laurenceb realises you could lift a car with this bulkhead design
[22:46] <Laurenceb> thats pretty crazy
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[22:58] <Sparky68> Question....
[22:59] <Sparky68> Is maximum achievable altitude affected by the time of year?
[23:00] <rjharrison> good question and possibly yes
[23:01] <rjharrison> but bear in mind it's about -55 at maxalt
[23:02] <Sparky68> I guess what I am askign is - is there an optimum time of year for launch to obtain highest altitude
[23:02] <Sparky68> or does it not really matter?
[23:02] <jcoxon> it shouldn't matter too much
[23:03] <jcoxon> there are other large contributing factors
[23:03] <jcoxon> though launching in the summer - its at least easier to launch
[23:03] <jcoxon> launching when its cold it a lot harder
[23:03] <jcoxon> so more likely to make a mistake etc
[23:04] <Randomskk> wow. cuws makes getting a foundation radio license super easy
[23:05] <Randomskk> of course it probably helps that from what I can see of the content it's also pretty easy :p
[23:06] <jcoxon> yeah it isn't difficult and their course is accelerated
[23:06] <jcoxon> worth doing even just to foundation
[23:06] <gordonjcp> Randomskk: UK Foundation?
[23:06] <gordonjcp> yeah, it's pretty easy
[23:06] <Randomskk> yea, UK
[23:06] <Randomskk> hoping to get all three levels, at least before I finish at cambridge
[23:06] <Randomskk> 4 years plus an engineering course would hopefully be enough time and learning :p
[23:13] <Laurenceb> Badger2 looks good
[23:13] <Randomskk> I got to touch a badger2. :o
[23:13] <jcoxon> wow you are lucky
[23:13] <Randomskk> :p
[23:14] <Laurenceb> lol
[23:14] <Laurenceb> whats the 3rd sma for?
[23:14] <jcoxon> right, night all
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[23:14] <Randomskk> I think it has two GPSs
[23:14] <Randomskk> one done in hardware and one for software GPS
[23:15] <Laurenceb> ah neat
[23:15] <Randomskk> I think a gumstix sticks on to do the software gps or something
[23:15] <Laurenceb> wait... does it have blackfin?
[23:15] <Laurenceb> ah ok thats one way
[23:16] <Laurenceb> alternatively just grab gps data for later processing
[23:16] <Laurenceb> I belive soft gps is borderline possible with arm7
[23:16] <RocketBoy> humm - i think I have to correct information about tempretures - the -55deg occurs at the top of the Troposphere (say about 10km at these latitudes) - and rises again - so at our maxalt say 35K its risen to about 0deg C
[23:16] <Laurenceb> tropopause height is dependant on time of year
[23:16] <rjharrison> RocketBoy your so right
[23:17] <rjharrison> The data does support that 100%
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[23:17] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/time.png
[23:18] <rjharrison> external temp about 10 degrees at 35k
[23:20] <rjharrison> nights
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[23:20] <Laurenceb> thats the ozone layer
[23:20] <Sparky68> Question about the FT-817...
[23:21] <Sparky68> With use of teh CAT cable is it possible to get RTTY data direct from it?
[23:21] <SpeedEvil1> no
[23:22] <SpeedEvil1> you need to decode it using the PC
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[23:23] <Sparky68> ok
[23:24] <SpeedEvil1> fldigi
[23:24] <RocketBoy> night all
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[23:30] <Sparky68> Has anyone here done the Foundation Licence?
[23:31] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 9 2009