highaltitude.log.20090926

[00:01] Action: SpeedEvil brbs.
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[00:08] <rjharrison_> ping sbasuita
[00:08] <rjharrison_> You going to be listening in tomorrow>
[00:08] <sbasuita> rjharrison_, dan has the radi
[00:10] <rjharrison_> aah
[00:10] <rjharrison_> slight prob then :)
[00:11] <rjharrison_> send off ICARUS III to olimex today
[00:11] <rjharrison_> So fingers crossed I got it all right
[00:11] <rjharrison_> I even have a ground plane this time
[00:12] <fuzzylugnuts> Good luck1
[00:12] <rjharrison_> thanks fuzzylugnuts
[00:12] <rjharrison_> Well it's time for bed really
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> night!
[00:13] <rjharrison_> WEll soon just need to clean up the tracker ready for tomorroe
[00:13] <rjharrison_> natrium42 is it ok to forward to space near us
[00:14] <rjharrison_> Is any one in a position to track tomorrow?
[00:15] <sbasuita> rjharrison_, i bet daniel would... i'll text him if you want/
[00:15] <sbasuita> although still no antenna
[00:15] <sbasuita> so it wouldn't be very effective
[00:16] <rjharrison_> that would be cool
[00:16] <rjharrison_> whip will work
[00:16] <sbasuita> ok
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[00:18] <natrium42> rjharrison_: sure, go ahead
[00:21] <rjharrison_> Thanks natrium42
[00:21] <rjharrison_> I'm sure it is all pushing through
[00:21] <rjharrison_> Will check now
[00:21] <Laurenceb> is there a pic channel?
[00:21] <rjharrison_> No as they want to keep the stuff quiet till release
[00:21] <natrium42> #sparkfun ?
[00:21] <natrium42> no wait, that's arduino
[00:21] <natrium42> :P
[00:22] <rjharrison_> If I may mod a few pics and post them
[00:22] <rjharrison_> remove the advert content
[00:22] <natrium42> Laurenceb: so i have a drinking game
[00:22] <Laurenceb> oh ffs
[00:22] <natrium42> anytime sombody says arduino or zigbee
[00:22] <natrium42> you take a shot
[00:22] <Laurenceb> wheres the pic channel
[00:22] <Laurenceb> lol
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[00:26] <rjharrison_> I have to be up in 4 hours :(
[00:26] <rjharrison_> I'm going to be knackered
[00:26] <rjharrison_> Should be a good day
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[03:47] <swilly> \quit
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[04:34] <rjharrison_> yo natrium42
[04:34] <rjharrison_> Just about to leave for Cambridge
[04:36] <rjharrison_> can you do me a favour can you set up the conf.php to set the title rather like www.robertharrison.org/tracker
[04:37] <rjharrison_> Thanks in advance TIA
[04:37] <rjharrison_> Hope to see you around later. I think CUSF might be going up too
[04:41] <natrium42> k, will do
[04:41] <natrium42> a bit later though, gotta run off first
[04:41] <natrium42> good luck with the launch!
[04:47] <rjharrison_> THanks
[04:47] <rjharrison_> mee too
[04:48] <rjharrison_> \quit
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[06:20] <rharrison_eee> in car
[06:31] <natrium42> hehe, car is moving
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[07:05] <natrium42> rharrison_eee is speeding, lol
[07:05] <natrium42> 135km/h
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[08:16] <SpikeUK> Looks like rharrison_eee is almost there!
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[10:33] <rharrison_eee> .
[10:33] <rharrison_eee> hi all going to launbch in the next hour
[10:33] <rharrison_eee> SpeedEvil: should know where the tracker is
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[10:40] <SpikeUK> ll
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[11:25] <DanielRichman> ping rharrison_eee
[11:26] <SpikeUK> DanielRichman Hi!
[11:26] <DanielRichman> hi SpikeUK
[11:27] <SpikeUK> rharrison may be a bit tied up ATM - anything I can help with?
[11:27] <DanielRichman> Was going to ask which version of dl_fldigi I should be using and from where
[11:30] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, does your dl-fldigi package work?
[11:30] <SpikeUK> Urm - http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/ there may still be an issue with the Vista version - not sure
[11:31] <DanielRichman> SpikeUK, I'm on ubuntu
[11:31] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, your deb seems to be the latest revision in svn, will use
[11:31] <DanielRichman> apart from a tiny tweak that I cba with
[11:33] <SpikeUK> Oh right - good luck! I'm away from home so are unable to play radios ;-(
[11:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it works
[11:40] <DanielRichman> ok. I think i can hear something digital very faintly, not sure if it's the right thing
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[11:42] <SpikeUK> http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker/ suggests it's still on the ground in Cambs
[11:48] <DanielRichman> just getting noise and a wail at the moment
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Not updating though
[11:48] <DanielRichman> yes. last update was ~20mins ago
[11:49] <DanielRichman> ahh, the bible has arrived
[11:51] <DanielRichman> who else is listening?
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[11:59] <DanielRichman> so um... anyone know what's going on?
[12:00] <DanielRichman> Guess not
[12:02] <SpikeUK> Launched
[12:05] <SpikeUK> lost track 2 mins ago
[12:09] <SpikeUK> No track updates at http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker/ for siz mons now
[12:12] <SpikeUK> Tracking back - 12041 m at 5.6 m/s
[12:14] <SpikeUK> Anyone getting Google Earth feed please - I've not got that app on my laptop
[12:21] Action: SpeedEvil notices.
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> it's on the tracker for me
[12:22] <SpikeUK> Looks like the chase is on too!
[12:24] <SpikeUK> 15415 m Rate: 4.8 m/s
[12:24] <DanielRichman> SpikeUK, SpeedEvil, either of you listening?
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[12:24] Action: SpeedEvil has no 433 reciever.
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> And no 15km tower either.
[12:25] <SpikeUK> Nope from me neither - not at home
[12:27] <DanielRichman> not getting anything from here... will wait
[12:29] <SpikeUK> Hit JS at 16650 m ? 90 deg left turn
[12:30] <DanielRichman> Shame RJH has gone AWOL
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Tragic.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> He got caught on the balloon as it rose.
[12:36] <sbasuita> so the gps is having a fit...
[12:36] <SpikeUK> Got some bad data getting through
[12:37] <SpikeUK> If anybody gets the chance to record some live audio please?
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> It seems very confused - for some reason it seems to be going along roads.
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> Oh.
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> Oops.
[12:37] <DanielRichman> :P
[12:37] <DanielRichman> Can't hear anything out the northen window
[12:38] <DanielRichman> what altitude do you reckon i'll get a good signal at?
[12:38] Action: SpeedEvil rofls.
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> (blue peter - the northern window)
[12:38] <DanielRichman> :P
[12:40] <SpikeUK> 20km
[12:42] <SpikeUK> No updates for three mins
[12:43] <DanielRichman> holy shit I've got signla
[12:43] <DanielRichman> SpikeUK, gonna make you an audio recording
[12:44] <SpikeUK> DanielRichman Good man!
[12:45] <DanielRichman> just gotta get a laptop
[12:45] <DanielRichman> got one
[12:45] <DanielRichman> :P
[12:46] <SpikeUK> Didn't take you long to get a laptop ;-)
[12:47] <SpikeUK> DanielRichman - when you get that chance, please could you upload the audio to http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide - many thanks
[12:48] <DanielRichman> hmm. gonna need to install ndiswrapper & drivers
[12:48] <DanielRichman> eww
[12:52] <DanielRichman> doesn't appear to be decodable yet
[12:52] <SpikeUK> All the track data's coming from 2E0RJH/M
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[12:57] <SpikeUK> You seem to be talking to the tracking server DanielRichman but without any valid data so far
[12:58] <DanielRichman_li> correct
[12:59] Nick change: DanielRichman_li -> DR_listen
[12:59] <SpikeUK> Nothing from RJH for 20 mins
[13:00] <DR_listen> got data
[13:00] <DR_listen> valid data!
[13:00] <DR_listen> it's alive!
[13:03] <SpikeUK> DR_listen - yay!
[13:04] <SpikeUK> Oh. CHASE_RJH looks like on intercept course
[13:04] <DR_listen> just uploaded my first sentance
[13:05] <DR_listen> getting much less bitflips
[13:06] <DR_listen> SpikeUK, Audio rx capture is working
[13:07] <SpikeUK> DR_listen looks like the track is coming from you now! Yay!
[13:07] <DR_listen> ha. best bitflip ever: $$icarus becomes $$ikarus
[13:07] <SpikeUK> Phonetically correct ;-)
[13:08] <SpikeUK> 32km height?
[13:09] <DR_listen> oh dear. portaudio has thrown a tantrum
[13:09] <SpikeUK> Looks like burst! On it's way down maybe?
[13:10] <SpikeUK> Looking at raw data - sure looks like it
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> 16m/s speedy
[13:11] <sbasuita> last update 20 mins ago?
[13:11] <sbasuita> and how the hell did it get down to the southeast?
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> oh - that's old
[13:12] <DR_listen> ok we're back alive using oss
[13:13] <DR_listen> frequency's shifting like crazy
[13:15] <DR_listen> ok can has signal again
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> odd - last alt 32km
[13:16] <SpikeUK> Oh not burst then. Getting confusion with old data it looks like
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> {"position_id": "54504","vehicle": "icarus","server_time": "2009-09-26 13:05:25","gps_time": "2009-09-26 12:15:16","gps_lat": "52.071721","gps_lon": "0.239066","gps_alt": "32679","gps_heading": "143.6","gps_speed": "32.6","picture": "","temp_inside": "" }
[13:18] <SpikeUK> Looks good - 32k+ from RJH and DR
[13:19] <DR_listen> Got a perfect sentence:
[13:19] <DR_listen> $$icarus,722,12:18:36,52.072820,0.250666,28608,19.26,178.8,17.6,-16.6*20
[13:19] <DR_listen> the checsum checks out correctly
[13:20] <DR_listen> it's dropping like a stone
[13:20] <DR_listen> now at 26k...
[13:21] <SpikeUK> Not sure where though - looks like back to Cambs ;-)
[13:22] <DR_listen> beginning to lose signal
[13:23] <DR_listen> now the frequency's doing the cha-cha slide
[13:24] <SpikeUK> RJH seems to be getting a strong sig
[13:24] <DR_listen> I'm miles away
[13:24] <DR_listen> and it's dropping below 20k
[13:24] <SpikeUK> RJH's has parked up I think
[13:25] <DR_listen> SpikeUK, How much audio do you want?
[13:27] <SpikeUK> DR_listen 30 secs for the wiki would be great but it would be useful to have 2mins say. Thanks Daniel!
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Also if possible, could you flip it onto 'fm' for a few secs?
[13:27] <DR_listen> Ok. My signal isn't great so do you want me to hunt out good sentences, or pick a bit that has some good and some bad
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> To see if anything at all can be recieved?
[13:27] <DR_listen> SpeedEvil, my signal is getting so low
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> nvm then
[13:27] <DR_listen> barely poking above the noise
[13:27] <DR_listen> but i'll give it a go
[13:28] <DR_listen> FM +, - or SIMP?
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> it'd only work with a moderately strong signal
[13:28] <SpikeUK> Looks like over Hadstock
[13:29] <DR_listen> just got a perfect sentance (how, i do not know): $$icarus,761,12:28:43,52.072458,0.282745,16312,19.08,229.9,9.6,-49.5*15
[13:35] <SpikeUK> You've got to admire the predictor - looks like RJH is parked in a good spot
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> Naah. He's just put a magnet in the balloon - and a _really_ big one on the car.
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> That's why it's coming down so fast
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> Wile. E. Coyote was auctioning some stuff on ebay
[13:37] <SpikeUK> SpeedEvil - get outa here!
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[13:38] <DR_listen> $$icabus
[13:38] <DR_listen> now at 10km
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[13:39] <DR_listen> My signal has deteriorated too far; not gonna get any full sentances
[13:39] <DR_listen> gonna pack up
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[13:45] <SpikeUK> 7984 m Rate: -7.4 m/s Looks like Widdington to me
[13:49] <SpikeUK> Yikes - RJH is on the move
[13:52] <SpikeUK> Not sure RJH is heading in right direction
[13:52] <SpikeUK> He is now ;-)
[13:58] <DanielRichman> SpikeUK, what O/S are you on? Do you have Audacity?
[13:59] <SpikeUK> DanielRichman Win XP, Vista - yup I've got audacity
[14:00] <DanielRichman> Ok. I'ma gonna clip this 16MB file to 2mins quickly (there's some good sentences in it) and send it to you
[14:00] <DanielRichman> brb
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[14:02] <SpeedEvil> or wikiupload?
[14:03] <SpikeUK> 1663 m Rate: -5.2 m/s - my new prediction north of Hensham
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[14:14] <DanielRichman> SpikeUK, got you your 2minutes
[14:14] <DanielRichman> where'd you want it?
[14:15] <DanielRichman> ah zeusbot informs
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[14:20] <SpikeUK> Not many turnings off M11!
[14:22] <DanielRichman> SpikeUK, sent the email
[14:22] <DanielRichman> note that the RTTY recording is USB (you have to tell fldigi that if you're not downloading settings automatically)
[14:23] <DanielRichman> Oh and you might have to convert to wav before fldigi will like it
[14:24] <SpikeUK> Great DanielRichman - thanks for that!
[14:25] Nick change: DanielRichman -> DR_listen
[14:25] <DR_listen> ping zeusbot
[14:25] Nick change: DR_listen -> DanielRichman
[14:26] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, just thought: I can power up our payload quickly if you want a recording of FMified SSB rtty
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> That might be an idea.
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> The basic thought is to get a view of what it looks like afgter going through the voice filters.
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> And to see how easily it might be reconstructed into a RS232 stream.
[14:33] <DanielRichman> hmm. I'd be using the FT-790R's FM radio
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> If it's just forexample a matter of filtering out everything above maybe 400Hz - and integrating the spikes to get a nice waveform
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> to enable tracking - at a poorer snr admittedly - on cheap FM radios
[14:34] <DanielRichman> interesting
[14:34] <DanielRichman> a very quiet buzzing
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> It's going to be screwed by any in-band of course
[14:35] <DanielRichman> how long (seconds) do you want?
[14:36] <DanielRichman> the messages will have no gps data in them
[14:36] <DanielRichman> just will be $$A1,00001, then a hell of a load of ! marks
[14:37] <DanielRichman> 1MB File job done. SpeedEvil, where shall I send/upload it? I can put it on my http server if you want to download
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> dcc works
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> that works
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> Or email to DanielRichman@mauve.plus.com
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> thanjs!
[14:46] <DanielRichman> http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/fmtest.wav
[14:49] <DanielRichman> ping SpeedEvil ^^
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> thanks
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> got
[15:00] <DanielRichman> k cool
[15:00] <DanielRichman> bbl
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[15:00] <SpikeUK> Anyone got a way to contact RJH - looks like he's a lot north
[15:01] <SpikeUK> Oh. Ok, he's retraced his steps
[15:04] <SpikeUK> Head for Henham RJH
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[15:55] <guysoft42> hi all, i am reading now on how to send a balloon to to near-space. will something like this do the job?: http://cgi.ebay.com/GIANT-Weather-Balloon-Meteorological-Military-8-Dia_W0QQitemZ370256682380QQ
[15:56] <guysoft42> .. also, i am not sure how to search for a parachute
[16:08] <SpikeUK> guysoft42 Can I point towards http://ukhas.org.uk/ - any other queries please come back
[16:09] <guysoft42> SpikeUK, i been there already, its great for theory, but i still need to know if what i am buying will actually work
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> guysoft42: there is a list on the wiki
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> of suppliers
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[16:10] <SpeedEvil> I would be hesitant to say that a balloon that's closing on 30 years old is any good at all
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[16:12] <fuzzylugnuts> Hey
[16:12] <fuzzylugnuts> how'd the launch go?
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[16:19] <guysoft42> SpeedEvil, ok, looked on that in the wiki: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:suppliers?s=suppliers . i really can't understand much from their catalogues,
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[16:27] <SpeedEvil> You have several quoted lifts
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> gross lift = total lift.
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> nozzle lift = gross lift - balloon weight
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> free lift = nozzle lift - payload weight
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.novalynx.com/400-balloons.html - taking the 800g balloon as an example
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> It can lift a payload of 1150g, and have 2000g left over of lift to pull it up
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> So the unbalanced force once you release the balloon is 2kg
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> which gives an ascent rate of 400m/min
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[16:32] <fuzzylugnuts> is there a chart or calculator for that?
[16:33] <fuzzylugnuts> like, you input balloon diameter and free lift, and get an acent rate out
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> It'd damn close to the ideal equation
[16:34] <fuzzylugnuts> link or something? I've not dealt much with that
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> The drag on a sphere
[16:34] <fuzzylugnuts> Ah
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> when drag = 2kg - for the above - it stops
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> (accellerating)
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> however - take the above number - 400m/min with 2000g
[16:35] <fuzzylugnuts> does the reduction of air density balance out the increased balloon diameter when it goes up?
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> if you want 1/2 that speed, you need sqrt(2) times the free lift
[16:35] <fuzzylugnuts> Ah
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> err
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> 1/1.41th
[16:36] <fuzzylugnuts> I'll look up the equation
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> neglecting the balloon surface tension, and temperature effects, the balloon will continue to rise at a constant rate
[16:37] <fuzzylugnuts> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient
[16:37] <fuzzylugnuts> so you basically solve for V?
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> it expands - keeping a constant lift, and, as it's doing this the air thinning means that it intersects a constant amount of air a second and has to push it out of the way
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:38] <fuzzylugnuts> sweet
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> In 'real life' - this is prettty close - if you have a large lift margin - it breaks down for 'floaters'
[16:38] <fuzzylugnuts> Eh, this'll be close enough
[16:39] <fuzzylugnuts> I'll add this to my balloon control software
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison's icarus iii is to do experiments on this - measuring the differential pressure between in and out on the balloon
[16:39] <fuzzylugnuts> Oh cool
[16:40] <fuzzylugnuts> honywell has lots of differential pressure sensors that would be perfect for that
[16:42] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.trossenrobotics.com/p/phidget-differential-gas-pressure-sensor.aspx
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[16:46] <SpeedEvil> That's a freescale part though.
[16:46] <SpeedEvil> Also - 25Kpa is quite a lot - the balloon pressure is more like 1kpa
[16:47] <fuzzylugnuts> just an example
[16:47] <fuzzylugnuts> you'd have to get one appropriate to your pressure range
[16:48] <fuzzylugnuts> do you folks interface with 12c or analog?
[16:48] <fuzzylugnuts> *i2c
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> It's basically what's available.
[16:49] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> The number of sensors with a 1Kpa or so range, that look like they might work at -55c without drifting too horribly isn't large
[16:50] <fuzzylugnuts> everything isn't going to be that cold
[16:50] <fuzzylugnuts> you could have that sensor right next to the flight computer and just have tubes leading out
[16:51] <fuzzylugnuts> we usually throw a hand warmer in our payloads anyways
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah - even if not -55C - temperature drift is a concern
[16:55] <fuzzylugnuts> you can test iteasily, but it should quote a % stability within the temperature range quoted
[17:14] <fuzzylugnuts> has anyone here used phidgets?
[17:25] <fuzzylugnuts> I might just get them and sort it out from there.
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> nope
[17:37] <fuzzylugnuts> drat
[17:39] <fuzzylugnuts> I have until next june to have this all built.
[17:44] <fuzzylugnuts> Oh. anyone tried inflating airbags to soften the landing?
[17:44] <fuzzylugnuts> like the mars thing?
[17:46] <fuzzylugnuts> or is it just easier to have a bigger chute ; )
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> much
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> Chute is easy - you don't even need to have an opening one - a pre-opened chute works fine
[17:54] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah
[17:54] <fuzzylugnuts> the ones I use are from those drag chutes that you wear while running
[17:54] <fuzzylugnuts> so it impossible to get tangled.
[17:55] <fuzzylugnuts> but... airbags sound more fun;_;
[17:56] <fuzzylugnuts> maybe I can have a test box drop off and inflate before it hits the ground
[17:56] <fuzzylugnuts> just sending baloons up gets kinda boring
[17:56] <fuzzylugnuts> : P
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[18:00] <fuzzylugnuts> hmm
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[18:48] <sbasuita> So, how was the launch?
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[20:26] <Laurenceb> hi
[20:26] <Laurenceb> how did the launch go?
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[20:29] <Laurenceb> anyone?
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[21:05] <rjharrison_> boo
[21:05] <rjharrison_> just got back
[21:06] <Laurenceb> how did it go?
[21:15] <rjharrison_> Laurenceb great
[21:15] <rjharrison_> They were very happy with teh results#
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[21:18] <natrium42> hey
[21:19] <natrium42> how did the flight go?
[21:19] <natrium42> the track looks weird
[21:20] <rjharrison_> Yep need to debug that
[21:20] <rjharrison_> Clearly something went wrong there and now I think about it I'm not sure what software is on there
[21:21] <rjharrison_> Looks like moveing over 0 again
[21:21] <rjharrison_> moving over 0 again
[21:21] <rjharrison_> I have changed to using floating point need to test
[21:23] <natrium42> did you get it back?
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[22:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.chrisgood.com/uav/index.html
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> neat
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[23:42] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
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[00:00] --- Sun Sep 27 2009