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[03:09] <kichimi> hey guys
[03:10] <kichimi> what are the laws concerning weather baloons in the UK? can anybody point me in the right direction? ive tried googling but i dont think im googling the right thing
[03:45] <kichimi> ignore that question, had a look on the website in the topic and found all the answers i need :)
[04:51] <natrium42> :)
[05:38] <kichimi> anyone alive in here?
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[09:44] <SpeedEvil> kichimi: :)
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[12:32] <rjharrison> hi Laurenceb
[12:32] <Laurenceb> hi
[12:32] <rjharrison> You back at uni yet?
[12:33] <Laurenceb> I quit
[12:34] <Laurenceb> in Derbyshire atm
[12:35] <rjharrison> Oh ok. Hope that's not a problem for you
[12:35] <rjharrison> Where did you get up to
[12:36] <Laurenceb> I dont follow
[12:36] <rjharrison> Year 1 2 3
[12:36] <Laurenceb> its not a problem no - I wasnt enjoying it and felt I was wasting my time
[12:36] <Laurenceb> oh it was phd
[12:36] <rjharrison> Oh thats ok
[12:36] <Laurenceb> I graduated 2008
[12:37] <rjharrison> Good call, no point if it doesn't suit you
[12:37] <Laurenceb> yeah it was office monkey business really
[12:37] <rjharrison> When I graduated. I deciced not to do a phd as it was wastng time in the IT world. If you wanted money that is
[12:37] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:38] <rjharrison> So I guess you'll be starting the job hunting next
[12:39] <rjharrison> Not that this is best time for jobs but hey ho
[12:39] <Laurenceb> I'm going to go back into physics stuff
[12:39] <rjharrison> Icarus III is in the final stages of prototype
[12:39] <Laurenceb> cool
[12:40] <rjharrison> Hoping to get the pcb off this week and then LAUNCH !!!!
[12:40] <rjharrison> Diff p sensor and Relative H on board
[12:40] <Laurenceb> neat
[12:40] <Laurenceb> what sensors?
[12:40] <rjharrison> The above 2 + temp int/ext
[12:41] <Laurenceb> sure but the actualy ICs ?
[12:41] <rjharrison> ahh :)
[12:41] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/svn/listing.php?repname=the-icarus-project&path=%2FIcarus+III%2Fdatasheets%2F#path_Icarus%20III_datasheets_
[12:42] <rjharrison> They are in there
[12:42] <rjharrison> the HIH is the humidity one
[12:43] <rjharrison> The DS1821 is the one wire temp sensor from dala
[12:43] <rjharrison> s
[12:43] <rjharrison> and the Freescale diff sensor is as makrked
[12:43] <rjharrison> marked
[12:47] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[12:48] <Laurenceb> yeah Ive got some capacitance based humidity sensors
[12:48] <Laurenceb> they dont work that well, maybe a simple 555 timer arangement would be better
[12:49] <Laurenceb> - I was using them with an analogue devices capacitance measurement IC
[12:50] <rjharrison> Oh I have just pluged it into the ADC I hope that's not too bad
[12:51] <Laurenceb> try breathing on it
[12:51] <rjharrison> I'm going to use some salts to calibrate
[12:51] <rjharrison> Yep that worked great lest night
[12:51] <rjharrison> last
[12:51] <rjharrison> I'm only hoping for 2/3% accuracy
[12:52] <rjharrison> Laurenceb there is a bit on my diary about salt bath calibration
[12:52] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=78
[12:53] <Laurenceb> never heard of this
[12:53] <Laurenceb> you're very organised :P
[12:54] <rjharrison> Nor had I until I googled humidity sensor clalibration
[12:54] <Laurenceb> I see
[12:54] <Laurenceb> how do you set it up?
[12:54] <rjharrison> Well you basically drive off any water from salt
[12:54] <rjharrison> Place in sealed container
[12:55] <rjharrison> add a few drops of water enough to damplen the salt
[12:55] <rjharrison> and hey presto the environment goes to the given humidity
[12:55] <rjharrison> Will use a humidity sensor to check too
[12:55] <Laurenceb> ah I kind of understand
[12:56] <rjharrison> bit more info here http://www.robertharrison.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=78
[12:56] <rjharrison> I'm no chemist so don't ask how it works
[12:57] <rjharrison> I now have 500g of the three salts
[12:57] <rjharrison> Assuming CuSO4 is a salt
[12:58] <rjharrison> it is
[12:59] <Laurenceb> its basically stabilising the humidity
[12:59] <rjharrison> Yep it sort of makes sense
[12:59] <rjharrison> I like the CuSO4 one for 0%
[13:00] <rjharrison> Then the other 2 are about 1/3 and 2/3's up the scale. Assuming linear scale :)
[13:00] <rjharrison> Not prefect but a 3 point calibration
[13:01] <rjharrison> I may have to refine the sensor later but it's a start
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> also 100% is easy
[13:07] <rjharrison> Is it !
[13:07] <rjharrison> Are you thinking dunk it in water :)
[13:07] <rjharrison> or breath on it SpeedEvil
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> breath is 100% RH 35C or so
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[13:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/gadget-freak/2007/10/meet-andrews-blast-from-the-pa-1.html
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> neat
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[14:40] <rjharrison> hey edmoore
[14:40] <rjharrison> Hows it going still burning the midnight oil?
[14:40] <rjharrison> If you want that crossover dmg let me know.
[14:54] <edmoore> rjharrison: not to worry, got a vm
[14:54] <edmoore> but ty anyway
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[16:21] <dehuman> high
[16:22] <dehuman> rockets too?
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Not so much.
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[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Rockets tend to be lots more expensive for the same payload.
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> And rather more regulated
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[16:42] <edmoore> dehuman: a little
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[17:11] Action: kichimi has found a new hobbie
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[18:15] <kichimi> anyone alive?
[18:16] <edmoore> kichimi: yes
[18:16] <edmoore> but about to pop off for a bit
[18:16] <edmoore> stick around
[18:16] <edmoore> this place generally comes alive in evenings UTC
[18:16] <edmoore> back soon
[18:17] <kichimi> edmoore: thanks :)
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[19:33] <SpikeUK> !mess rjharrison_home Hey Robert - somebody's pinched our project name http://space.1337arts.com/
[19:35] <SpikeUK> One day, I'll learn the zeusbot commands ;-
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> !learn add test[999] foo
[19:36] Action: SpeedEvil ponders going outside to do more stuff.
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[19:40] <SpikeUK> Ping rjharrison_
[19:45] <rjharrison_> Hey SpikeUK
[19:45] <rjharrison_> I got your message I didn't fly it was test data
[19:45] <rjharrison_> I can set up a test if you do a talk again
[19:46] <SpikeUK> Oh right! Thanks. Hey Robert - somebody's pinched your project name http://space.1337arts.com/
[19:46] <rjharrison_> hehe I spoke with them eariler
[19:46] <rjharrison_> earlier
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - well - it was hardly 1000% original.
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> Some greek dude used it ages ago.
[19:46] <rjharrison_> Yep
[19:47] <rjharrison_> It's apropriate
[19:47] <SpikeUK> True. But there's got to be enough names to go round ;-)
[19:48] <rjharrison_> Yep I spent a bit of time searching before settling on Icarus
[19:48] <rjharrison_> I guess they didn't ...
[19:49] <SpikeUK> BTW - there's a video of my talk at http://bit.ly/3hkyWO - please don't be too critical
[19:54] <SpikeUK> I may well be trying to repeat my talk at a BarCamp in London 24th/25th October and/or in Manchester November 7th - 8th. If anyone was looking to do a launch around those time that would be brilliant!
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[20:08] <edmoore> hi kichimi
[20:08] <SpikeUK> edmoore hi!
[20:09] <edmoore> hi SpikeUK
[20:09] <edmoore> how's it going?
[20:09] <SpikeUK> Fine thanks! You?
[20:10] <edmoore> the world schedule here is a little gruelling
[20:10] <edmoore> but things are generally ok
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[20:11] <SpikeUK> Excellent! Did you see my posts of 20-mins ago?
[20:19] <edmoore> SpikeUK: nope
[20:19] <edmoore> do re-post
[20:19] <edmoore> also, i'm ona silly browser based client that doesn't ping when someone talks to me unless you include my name in the message, which then reminds me that i have an irc tab open
[20:20] <SpikeUK> edmoore OK - there's a video of my talk at http://bit.ly/3hkyWO - please don't be too critical. Also I may well be trying to repeat my talk at a BarCamp in London 24th/25th October and/or in Manchester November 7th - 8th. If anyone was looking to do a launch around those time that would be brilliant!
[20:21] <edmoore> will see what i can do - may come along if we can't launch
[20:22] <SpikeUK> edmoore. Really! That would be brilliant. Trouble is I'll have to find another subject ;-)
[20:24] <edmoore> oh no do give the same talk
[20:24] <edmoore> i'll just watch
[20:24] <edmoore> oh hang on, you have to give a talk yourself don't you?
[20:24] <SpikeUK> Yup!
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[20:25] <SpikeUK> Although at Brighton nobody was checking up
[20:25] <rjharrison_> evening all
[20:25] <SpikeUK> rjharrison_ hi!
[20:29] <rjharrison_> hey SpikeUK nice video
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[20:52] <edmoore_CUSF> SpikeUK: am really enjoying this
[20:52] <edmoore_CUSF> am talking from ee whilst watching it full screen on tthe main machine
[20:54] <edmoore_CUSF> it's a great talk - the event looks very exciting
[20:54] <edmoore_CUSF> have you seen fergus and mine's talk at the AMSAT conference?
[21:02] <edmoore> i think it's on t'web somewhere
[21:04] <SpikeUK> rjharrison_ and edmoore - thanks guys! I appreciate the kind words. There were a *lot* of errors in it but nobody there noticed ;-)
[21:04] <SpikeUK> edmoore - yest I have seen your AMSAT talk - that was really good!
[21:04] <edmoore> The ARM on our 1st-gen flight computer was a little offended that it was accused of being an arduino though :p
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[21:05] <SpikeUK> edmoore ;-0 You noticed then
[21:06] <edmoore> ...given I designed it!
[21:07] <SpikeUK> The guys there knew what an Arduino is, I felt it best not to confuse 'em
[21:07] <edmoore> but the talk was great. it's very odd and kinda cool seeing your project being talked about by someone else
[21:08] <SpikeUK> There was a *lot* of interest. I should have capitalized on it if I had some hand-outs or a blog to point them at
[21:08] <SpikeUK> I'll know better next time ;-)
[21:09] <edmoore> london could be the place
[21:09] <edmoore> i wonder if i can talk about something else at london, if you've got my main proj :p
[21:09] <edmoore> I might talk about FunCube
[21:10] <SpikeUK> I was really focusing on the Teds in space project - how about talking about badger and/or badger cub?
[21:11] <edmoore> Might be a bit boring
[21:12] <edmoore> Nice to have some kind of hook that isn't strictly technical, sometimes
[21:12] <edmoore> like teds and schoolkids :)
[21:12] <SpikeUK> My idea exactly!
[21:12] <SpikeUK> It was a brilliant and inspired project all round Ed!
[21:13] <SpikeUK> BTW - don't talk to me about boring - I sat through a session about regex!
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> $*[^^]
[21:14] <SpikeUK> That's easy for you to say ;-)
[21:15] <edmoore> lol
[21:16] <SpikeUK> If you are serious about the London BarCamp (and I think you would really enjoy it) - I've got a plan B to do with Arduinos I can develop
[21:18] <edmoore> what is the weekend again?
[21:18] <SpikeUK> 24th/25th October
[21:19] <SpikeUK> I'm sort of committed to do the Space Teds for the Manchester do in November - one of the organizers has made a personal request ;-(
[21:20] <edmoore> Oh for sure
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[21:22] <edmoore> the Teds is yours for sure
[21:22] <edmoore> do you want the KML?
[21:22] <edmoore> for google earth spinning around
[21:23] <edmoore> I will try and talk about something else anyway as about the last 5 talks I've done have been on ballooning
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[21:24] <SpikeUK> The KML would be great edmoore. If ballooning is what you do then that's what you talk about I guess
[21:25] <edmoore> It's good fun - but it'd be good to try something else. I'm working on FunCube which could be fun to talk about, though there's not much to show yet
[21:25] <edmoore> I also really want to do a massively high power software defined radio with a graphics card doing most of the crunching
[21:25] <edmoore> Radio4 Longwave to GPS all at once
[21:26] <SpikeUK> Yikes!
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: you need below this - you want to get rugby - for additional time-signal :)
[21:27] <edmoore> true :)
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> It'd be nice if there was a cheap way to throw lots of data into a PC
[21:28] <edmoore> i don't think it'll happen, i just think it'd be cool
[21:28] <kichimi> sup
[21:28] <edmoore> you've got a TFLOP of power on a decent graphics card
[21:28] <edmoore> that's a whole lot of downconversion and fft!
[21:28] <SpikeUK> There is stuff like that out there doing that, but with custom hardware not standard graphics cards
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> umm
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> Does fft parralelise?
[21:29] <edmoore> oh completely and totally
[21:29] <edmoore> that's the beauty of it
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> Or do you treat it as n bands
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> with a software downmixer on the front of each processor?
[21:30] <edmoore> yes. well, the GPU you do the DDC in software
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[21:31] <edmoore> i don't actually know if it's possible, i just know the GPUs are can be up to 250 times faster in real world conditions that your CPU at doing these kinds of parallel tasks. it's quite exciting
[21:32] <edmoore> anyhoo, vapourware at the moment. need to knuckle down to this work currently. the badger2 firmware is more of less done.
[21:32] <SpikeUK> Thanks for chat and info - I'll be back tomorrow
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[21:33] <kichimi> hmm
[21:33] <edmoore> hi kichimi
[21:33] <kichimi> hows it going ^^
[21:34] <edmoore> good thanks, just saw a talk online by SPikeUK about our ballooning project
[21:34] <kichimi> nice
[21:34] <kichimi> im planning a balloon project
[21:34] <kichimi> well
[21:34] <kichimi> somewhat
[21:35] <edmoore> where are you based?
[21:35] <kichimi> essex
[21:35] <edmoore> oh grand
[21:35] <kichimi> wbu?
[21:35] <edmoore> just down the road then
[21:35] <edmoore> cambridge
[21:35] <kichimi> nice
[21:35] <kichimi> im in cambs next weekend hopefully
[21:35] <edmoore> you should come to one of our launches
[21:35] <edmoore> e may be doing something next weekend
[21:35] <kichimi> :D
[21:35] <edmoore> quite probably
[21:35] <kichimi> nice one
[21:36] <kichimi> i was thinking of setting a baloon up with some of my friends
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> You'll need a big balloon.
[21:36] <edmoore> a top project
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> How much do your friends weigh?
[21:36] <kichimi> err
[21:36] <kichimi> im not putting them in it
[21:36] <kichimi> lol
[21:36] <kichimi> i meant to take pictures, i know loads of people have done it, but ive never done it
[21:37] <kichimi> and it would be a cool project
[21:37] <edmoore> defintely
[21:37] <edmoore> do you have any experience with electronics?
[21:37] <kichimi> yeah
[21:37] <kichimi> and linux
[21:37] <kichimi> i was planning it around a linux microcontroller
[21:38] <kichimi> ive got some good programming skills too
[21:38] <kichimi> im also very good with my hands
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> linux microcontroller is lots more expensive
[21:38] <kichimi> i was looking at beagleboard
[21:38] <kichimi> its not too expensive
[21:38] <kichimi> ~£100
[21:39] <kichimi> but then again
[21:39] <kichimi> if i never see it again
[21:39] <kichimi> it'll be a bit of a pisstake
[21:39] <kichimi> ive even got ideas for insulation
[21:39] <kichimi> a cutdown method
[21:39] <kichimi> im not too sure about how i plan to communicate with it
[21:39] <kichimi> im stuck between radio and GSM based options
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> GSM dies at 100m altitude
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> or so
[21:40] <kichimi> just for retreiving it
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> GSM may not have a signal on the ground too
[21:40] <kichimi> i was going to set an altitude limit before cutdown
[21:40] <kichimi> yeah
[21:41] <kichimi> but ive never ever looked at radios before
[21:41] <kichimi> i have no idea how i would go about using radio waves
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> the wiki has some useful stuff on it.
[21:41] <kichimi> and i also dont fully understand radio
[21:41] <kichimi> yeah ive trawled the wiki
[21:41] <kichimi> im thinking of asking a friend about it
[21:41] <kichimi> or an ex electronics teacher from my old college
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, the general solution to long range involves one expensiveish bit of kit - the radio - which is around a hundred quid on ebay.
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> however - that stays on the ground
[21:42] <kichimi> hmm
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> But it means that with a ~15 quid radio - we've gotr ranges of >300km
[21:43] <kichimi> okay
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[21:43] <edmoore> learning radio is an excellent excuse to do this project
[21:44] <edmoore> infact, see if you can get yourself your foundation radio license
[21:44] <edmoore> you'll have a callsign and you'll learn stuff about radio on the way
[21:44] <kichimi> do i have to pay for such a license?
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[21:44] <edmoore> kichimi: on the linux microcontroller front, it's a huge amount of power and weight to run a balloon, and those OMAP processors on the TI board run pretty hot, and may well overheat in the near-vacuum that we operate
[21:45] <rjharrison_> Not much the local ham club should sort you
[21:45] <edmoore> however, something like an arduino is i guess the linux of microcontrollers - a standard open very cheap and easy platform
[21:45] <kichimi> but doesnt it get really cold up there?
[21:45] <edmoore> well, it gets cold yes
[21:45] <edmoore> but there's also less air
[21:45] <kichimi> good point
[21:45] <edmoore> so very little convective or conductive cooling
[21:45] <rjharrison_> and low humidity
[21:46] <edmoore> so electronic components don't really have anywhere to cool off into
[21:46] <kichimi> what if i used a heatsink?
[21:46] <rjharrison_> You don't need one :)
[21:46] <kichimi> but you just told me the componants would overheat
[21:46] <rjharrison_> It will help keep everything warm
[21:47] <kichimi> hmm
[21:47] <kichimi> so i might have to go a bit more simpler
[21:47] <kichimi> which is harder for me, as im better with the software front than the hardware front
[21:47] <rjharrison_> Historically the temp in the payload is between 0 and -30 depending if you have a camera working inside the payload
[21:47] <edmoore> no no, there's warm and there's overheating
[21:47] <rjharrison_> deg C
[21:47] <edmoore> the omap, unless you severaly underclock it, runs actually hot
[21:48] <edmoore> it would cook itself on a balloon
[21:48] <kichimi> okay
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[21:48] <kichimi> so what if i fitted fans to circulate air
[21:48] <edmoore> however much lower power stuff (check arduino) runs very cool indeed
[21:48] <kichimi> okay
[21:48] <edmoore> you're talking 8Mhz 8-bit microcontrollers
[21:48] <rjharrison_> And well proven in HAB
[21:49] <kichimi> HAB?
[21:49] <edmoore> there's little-to-no air to circulate
[21:49] <edmoore> a heatsink might work, if it is exposed to the sky
[21:49] <rjharrison_> High Altitude Ballooning
[21:49] <kichimi> okay
[21:50] <rjharrison_> edmoore did you find your GPS to test the tracker script?
[21:50] <kichimi> what would i use for GPS then
[21:50] <kichimi> i was planning on using a USB GPS dongle
[21:50] <rjharrison_> lasseniQ or UBOLOX
[21:50] <kichimi> and that throws logging out of the window
[21:51] <rjharrison_> Interface an SD card
[21:51] <kichimi> id need some way to interface with an SD Card or something
[21:51] <kichimi> yeah
[21:51] <rjharrison_> or uSD
[21:52] <kichimi> what Arduino should i be looking at so i can do some research into it, there seems to be more than 1 model
[21:52] <kichimi> hmm
[21:52] <kichimi> actually
[21:52] <kichimi> these seem to just be boards
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[21:52] <kichimi> im assuming they all have the same chip
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[21:54] <edmoore> whoops
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[21:57] <leftcase> Hey there,
[21:57] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[21:57] <kichimi> hello
[21:57] <sbasuita> Evening kichimi
[21:58] <leftcase> Hi
[21:58] swilly (n=swilly@adsl-226-199-167.gsp.bellsouth.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:59] <leftcase> I've been looking at the UKHAS site after reading an article on slashdot about high altitude ballooning. I had a quick question about tracking via radio if anyone can help?
[22:00] <rjharrison_> go lon leftcase
[22:00] <rjharrison_> go on
[22:00] <edmoore> go lat
[22:01] <edmoore> i'll see myself out
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> go on
[22:01] <rjharrison_> lol
[22:01] <leftcase> Here > http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide it talks about using the 70cm band. I wonder if a licence is required to operate kit on that in the UK?
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> no
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> leftcase: not license exempt modules
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> leftcase: If you build your own transmitter, then yes, you need a license, but not already type-approved modules
[22:02] <edmoore> but you can't actually fly equipment on that band unless it complies with the license-free parameters
[22:02] <edmoore> in a nutshell you're stuck with 10mW
[22:03] <leftcase> Ah right, OK - I think I get you. So basically it's licence exempt as long as you use equipment built for a particular purpose and don't modify it (sorry, I'm an IT guy and don't know anything about radio) ;-)
[22:05] <rjharrison_> leftcase http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/tech/interface_req/IR2030final.pdf
[22:05] <rjharrison_> Page 32
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> leftcase: pretty much
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> leftcase: or unless you as a licensed ham make identical equipment
[22:05] <rjharrison_> basically use modules on 434.650 or 434.075 MHz
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> leftcase: but as it's 15 quid...
[22:08] <leftcase> SpeedEvil: Sorry to show my ignorance, but what's 15 quid?
[22:08] <kichimi> £15
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> the modems
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> oh
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> quid = pound sterling
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> one unit of UK currency.
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Worth about a loaf of bread.
[22:10] <leftcase> SpeedEvil: hehe - No sorry, meant what cost £15 ;-) I'm from up in East Yorkshire (you see a US IP address 'cause I'm connected to IRC from IRSSI on a remote US server)
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> a
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> h
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> The RF transmitter that goes on the balloon
[22:12] <leftcase> ah right, get ya
[22:16] <leftcase> I saw some stuff here on CB allocation in the 70cm band http://www.transmission1.co.uk/index.php?name=News&topic=8&startrow=11
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[22:19] <leftcase> Also located the high-altitude flickr group. Awesome. One thing that does interest me, is what happens if the payload ends up dropping on somebodies head? (especially I suppose if the parachute fails!)
[22:19] <kichimi> then you pretend you dont know anything about it
[22:19] <leftcase> lmao
[22:19] <kichimi> 'what the hell is a balloon anyway'
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[22:22] <kichimi> brb
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[22:23] <leftcase> There'd be no plausable deniability here though I guess! http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3730472252/in/pool-highaltitude/
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> If it actually does fall on someones head - most payloads will be 'ow'
[22:28] <leftcase> Looking at some on the Flickr group lots of the payloads seem to look pretty light.
[22:29] <leftcase> I'd imagine if the parachute didn't open it'd reach some velocity before it hit the ground though!
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[22:35] <leftcase> The /. article balloon was put together for around $150 USD - How much are projects coming in at in the UK (aprox)
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> A bit more than that
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> Chiefly because we want to get them back :)
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> But not much more
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> radio - 15 , micro 15, batteries, 5, GPS, 15, case/parachute 10, camera from ebay - 30 - balloon 30 - helium 20
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> (rough numbers)
[22:37] <leftcase> I find the idea of this fascinating to be honest! It brings together so many interesting fields of expertise! Working in an IT department is pretty good though 'cause there are a couple of willing volunteers!
[22:37] <kichimi> where do you get helium for £20?
[22:38] <kichimi> i spent all morning going through every party shop, card shop and art shop looking for cheap helium today and the cheapest was £34
[22:38] <kichimi> for a small bottle
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that's assuming a big refillable cylinder, and using part of it
[22:39] <kichimi> and i cant find a microcontroller for under £120
[22:40] <leftcase> I wonder if it'd be possible to use a gumstix style single board computer as a flight computer..
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> If you're happy with soldering - a AVR and a bit of veroboard will be just fine
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> also bifferos.com
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> The arduino is 'canned' and somewhat easier to use
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> But raw microcontrollers are a couple of quid with a K or so of RAM, and 20K of ROM
[22:42] <kichimi> gumstix seems more expensive than the beagleboard i found, plus its more powerful
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Question is - why do you care
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> What requires lots of power?
[22:42] <kichimi> as in, clockspeed and specs
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> If all you're doing is triggering a camera, and sending a serial string at 50bps
[22:42] <kichimi> not actual power consumtion
[22:42] <kichimi> hmm
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Then a 10MHz 2 quid microcontroller will do just fine
[22:43] <kichimi> right, i think its pen and paper time for me
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Then there is stuff like bifferos.com - a 30 quid small linux board with very limited IO
[22:43] <leftcase> I guess my hurdle would be not knowing anything about programming microcontrollers, but having some idea how to use Linux based stuff
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Add a cou;ple of USB things, and ...
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> avrfreaks.net arduino.com are probably worth looking at
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> When did you start programming leftcase?
[22:45] <leftcase> I'm a crappy programmer! Work in systems adminstration so pretty much just do what I need to to get by.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> In some ways microcontrollers are easier.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> There is no OS.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> The hardware is of an understandable completely scale
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> If you wanted to completely understand a PC - the pile of documents would weigh more than your car.
[22:46] <leftcase> I did have a look at the arduino stuff. It looks pretty understandable. The progamming language was designed to be pretty accessable to artists etc wasn't it?
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> I've not actually looked at it. As I understand there is a community round it
[22:47] <leftcase> It seems pretty popular atm.
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> It is maybe 3-10 times more expensive than DIY
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> but considerably easier to learn
[22:48] <leftcase> I'd never seen the bifferboard btw. That seems a prety awesome piece of kit of the price
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> It's very limited in IO - you need pretty much to have a USB hub and stuff hanging off it
[22:50] <leftcase> right
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[22:52] <kichimi> hmm
[22:55] <kichimi> SpeedEvil: thanks for mentioning bifferboard
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> np
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> I've not actually tried it.
[22:56] Action: SpeedEvil is short of funds right now.
[22:56] Action: leftcase too
[22:57] <leftcase> I'm trying to aim the concept at an educational experience for my 5 year old boy!
[22:57] <leftcase> That way I can release cash from the other halfs doing the house up fund!
[23:07] <kichimi> right
[23:08] <kichimi> ive drawn out a pseudo diagram on how im going to do this and ill begin writing a program to control everything to run on the board
[23:08] <kichimi> now i need to th ink about a cutdown
[23:09] <kichimi> nichrome wire around the balloon cord would work? has anybody else done this?
[23:10] <kichimi> would using a -16c walk in freezer be a good way to test how the electronics fair in the harsh conditions?
[23:11] <jeev> http://www.break.com/index/worlds-largest-model-rocket.html
[23:11] <jeev> how lame
[23:11] <jeev> doesn't even shwo the damn thing
[23:13] <jeev> i wonder if you could get a baloon up to 100,000 feet
[23:13] <jeev> is it possible to then launch a rocket? i guess not, i just thought of the weight ;)
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> kichimi: it's a start
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> kichimi: reality is down to -55C
[23:14] <kichimi> yeah
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> kichimi: I like - at least I have done some tests on and it seemed to work well - small power resistors.
[23:14] <kichimi> hmm
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> kichimi: you can get ceramic resistors that are specified to 350C case temperature
[23:15] <kichimi> okay
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> kichimi: this means that they are guaranteed to cut a plastic line wrapped round them
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> Admittedly it may take a minute - but they are completely reusable
[23:15] <kichimi> its going to look like ill have to put alot of effort into the case more than everything
[23:16] <kichimi> if i insulate it properly and work on a way of heating the inside up without setting fire to it i should be okay
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> Generally a polystyrene box workd, and is quite simple
[23:16] <kichimi> i was thinking house insulation and tin foil
[23:16] <kichimi> or maybe copper foil?
[23:16] <kichimi> thats to reflect the radiant heat back
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> house insulation - kingspan works well
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> foil on the outside isn't a bad plan
[23:17] <kichimi> i meant on the inside too
[23:17] <leftcase> This is interesting, I must have chucked away loads of those phones! http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/171527903/in/pool-highaltitude/
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[23:19] <kichimi> if the batterys froze up and became unusable, i could in theory write software to detect when there has been a power failure
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> lithium AA cells seem good
[23:21] <leftcase> kichimi: although if the batteries stopped working the software probably would stop working too ;-)
[23:21] <kichimi> when the software came back on it could detect a time lapse
[23:23] <leftcase> I'm amazed that something like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/171517473/in/pool-highaltitude/ can communicate with the onboard balloon radio
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> radio modem results have been generally poor compared to 'proper' radios
[23:26] <leftcase> Right, off now. Thanks folks for your kind indulgence of a noob (I'll no doubt be back again!)
[23:27] <leftcase> SpeedEvil: Thanks mate :-)
[23:28] <leftcase> Cool, I've got a lot to absorb, but my initial questions have definately been answered. Catch you later.
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[23:36] <kichimi> would you say a radio modem is good enough though?
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> It depends on the exact modem
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> and it's hard to tell without tests
[23:38] <kichimi> okay
[23:39] <kichimi> i think im almost done really, i just need the stuff, then i need to work out the problems, then work on building a suitable case, start doing tests (freeze tests, throwing it about a bit, a teathered flight, etc) and work out problems from there
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[23:39] <fuzzylugnuts> Hey
[23:39] <kichimi> ive spent a good few days planning this
[23:39] <kichimi> i mean days, not an hour a day, i meant most of the day
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[23:41] <fuzzylugnuts> has anyone heard of these guys or their radios? http://www.testech-elect.com/raveon/index.htm
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[23:47] <Laurenceb> hi
[23:47] <fuzzylugnuts> Heya
[23:48] <fuzzylugnuts> I might have found some awesome radio modems
[23:49] <fuzzylugnuts> which means I'll have some Radiometrix ones to spare
[23:53] <swilly> can anyone point me in the right direction to becoming an amateur radio operator in the US? i would like to be able to use APRS.
[23:54] <kichimi> Laurenceb: you have my name >.> i am lawrence.
[23:55] <fuzzylugnuts> swilly: Hi! I got my license a few years ago
[23:55] <fuzzylugnuts> A good place to start is find a local ham radio club
[23:58] <fuzzylugnuts> They can get you a basic study book, then you go take some practice tests online, then the real one
[23:59] <fuzzylugnuts> swilly: what part of the US are you in?
[00:00] --- Tue Sep 15 2009