highaltitude.log.20090911

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[00:28] <Laurenceb> http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/
[00:28] <Laurenceb> <meta name="ICBM" content="52.48002, -1.902805">
[00:28] <Laurenceb> I'm a bit worried by that
[00:33] <KingJ> Right, steer clear of Birmingham for a while...
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[19:53] <ShellEvil> Finally - 3G modem works.
[19:53] <ShellEvil> When on a 4m bamboo pole.
[19:53] <ShellEvil> I need to try to find somewhere more reasonable
[19:53] <ShellEvil> Or put it with an antenna with some gain
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[21:02] <fuzzylugnuts> Hey
[21:03] <fuzzylugnuts> you folks so wise in the ways of serial
[21:04] <ShellEvil> Indeed.
[21:04] <fuzzylugnuts> at what level does xon/off flow control work?
[21:04] <ShellEvil> I've recently murdered 8.
[21:04] <ShellEvil> software.
[21:04] <fuzzylugnuts> can I use it half duplex on a 3 wire serial line?
[21:06] <ShellEvil> yes
[21:06] <ShellEvil> half duplex?
[21:06] <ShellEvil> you mean only listening or sending at any one time?
[21:07] <fuzzylugnuts> yes
[21:07] <ShellEvil> Not reliably
[21:08] <fuzzylugnuts> how so
[21:08] <fuzzylugnuts> as in, what makes you say that
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[21:09] <Laurenceb> hi
[21:09] <natrium42> laurentium!
[21:12] <ShellEvil> fuzzylugnuts: because you can't - in general do that - unless you have a protocol round it
[21:12] <fuzzylugnuts> which xon/xoff supplies, if I understand it correctly
[21:13] <ShellEvil> fuzzylugnuts: for example - you send xon when you have finished sending a packet - and start to listen - and don't stop listening till you get xoff
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[21:13] <fuzzylugnuts> hmmm
[21:13] <rjharrison_> Hi all
[21:13] <ShellEvil> It doesn't work in the case that either side may want to send data
[21:13] <fuzzylugnuts> so it depends on the 0 data loss
[21:13] <fuzzylugnuts> Hi RJ
[21:13] <rjharrison_> Just used my oscilloscope in earnest
[21:13] <fuzzylugnuts> :O
[21:13] <rjharrison_> yo fuzzylugnuts
[21:14] <ShellEvil> fuzzylugnuts: as if both are allowed to transmit - they both chose the same time to start sending xon - you get both sides talking, and neither listening
[21:14] <Laurenceb> Francis Rogallo died :(
[21:14] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Rogallo
[21:14] <fuzzylugnuts> ShellEvil: this would be used for a serial terminal
[21:15] <fuzzylugnuts> so no transmission would go unprompted
[21:15] <ShellEvil> :/
[21:15] <ShellEvil> Laurenceb: Did his canopy fold?
[21:15] <Laurenceb> he was 97
[21:15] <rjharrison_> My PWM wasn't working and I used the scope to work out that the wrong pre scaller was at work
[21:15] <rjharrison_> 1 not 8 :)
[21:16] <ShellEvil> fuzzylugnuts: if each side sends xon before, and xoff after - and doesn't send until it gets an xon - it works
[21:16] <fuzzylugnuts> hmmm
[21:16] <ShellEvil> fuzzylugnuts: but that means that one side can never notiy the other of data
[21:17] <ShellEvil> fuzzylugnuts: and both sides have to continually actively turn round the line.
[21:17] <fuzzylugnuts> that doesn't sound righ
[21:17] <ShellEvil> fuzzylugnuts: what are you trying to do
[21:18] <fuzzylugnuts> deal with flow control issues with a wireless terminal
[21:18] <ShellEvil> There are several ways.
[21:18] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus/pwm/servo-pwm.jpg
[21:19] <ShellEvil> Syncronised cocks, every 0.1-0.5th second side A transmits - every 0.6-1th second side B transmits
[21:19] <fuzzylugnuts> ...teehee
[21:19] <ShellEvil> Scopes are so hadny
[21:19] <fuzzylugnuts> shell... thats not really practical
[21:19] <rjharrison_> I like the fact that it does all the cals for you eg 50Hz and 20ms
[21:19] <rjharrison_> calcs
[21:20] <ShellEvil> fuzzylugnuts: It depends on your situation.
[21:20] <fuzzylugnuts> ok, maybe I best explain this more
[21:20] <ShellEvil> Was it a dark and stormy night?
[21:21] <ShellEvil> Was it the best of times, the worst of times?
[21:21] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah, and it was all dark and grainy, and a pinabll machine was involved
[21:21] <ShellEvil> Had the lawn just eaten its first robin of the spring?
[21:21] <fuzzylugnuts> you know the serial ports on the gumstix, the 3wire ones?
[21:21] <ShellEvil> no
[21:21] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[21:21] <ShellEvil> what are you trying to do
[21:21] <fuzzylugnuts> its basically a tty on a 3 wire serial port
[21:22] <ShellEvil> yes - I am familiar with the concept of 3 wire serial ports
[21:22] <fuzzylugnuts> ok cool.
[21:22] <fuzzylugnuts> that's on my balloon. on the ground I have my computer with some manner of terminal program.
[21:23] <fuzzylugnuts> between them is the transcievers, who can only act half duplex
[21:23] <fuzzylugnuts> if one is transmitting while the other does, data is lost
[21:23] <ShellEvil> how is transmitting done - is it just if there is any data on the tx line?
[21:24] <fuzzylugnuts> yep, any data sent to the buffer in the transciever is automatically transmitted
[21:24] <fuzzylugnuts> so, what I need is some sort of flow control to keep it from transmitting while data is comiing in
[21:24] <fuzzylugnuts> xon/xoff looked hopeful
[21:24] <fuzzylugnuts> since I can't use RTS/CTS
[21:24] <fuzzylugnuts> er dtr and co
[21:25] <ShellEvil> You can do that on the bottom end to a degree.
[21:25] <fuzzylugnuts> bottom end?
[21:25] <ShellEvil> Code your gumsitx thing to always leave a gap of 0.5s after a transmit.
[21:25] <ShellEvil> whenever it sends any serial data at all
[21:25] <ShellEvil> on the bottom end - you have a little monostable triggered from the rx line.
[21:26] <ShellEvil> If it hasn't seen any transmissions in 0.1s - it toggles the flow control to enable the PC to transmit
[21:26] <ShellEvil> For 0.3s or so
[21:27] <ShellEvil> this is transparent to the software on the bottom end - and just means that you add a check when you send a byte from the gumstix if it is over 0.5s after the last byte sent - if not you wait
[21:27] <ShellEvil> Or you just do this in software - it's not hard
[21:28] <ShellEvil> If one side is themaster, one side is the slave - then the flow control issue doesn't arise
[21:29] <fuzzylugnuts> hmm
[21:30] <fuzzylugnuts> I might be able to add a lag to the tty
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[21:35] <fuzzylugnuts> if an xon/off packet is lost due to signal loss.. it would screw everthging up right?
[21:37] <ShellEvil> yes
[21:37] <ShellEvil> you'd wait forever - or suffer a collision
[21:38] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[21:38] <fuzzylugnuts> hmm.
[21:39] <fuzzylugnuts> one of the main problems that I've run into is when you type a charachter in a console, it sends the char back as an echo, so you have to type really slow
[21:39] <fuzzylugnuts> or you start colliding
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[21:47] <rjharrison_> fuzzylugnuts can't you turn off echoing
[21:48] <fuzzylugnuts> I think so
[21:48] <rjharrison_> bbiab
[21:48] <fuzzylugnuts> Ok
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[21:48] <fuzzylugnuts> I kinda like seeing what I'm typing though
[21:49] <fuzzylugnuts> hmm.
[21:49] <fuzzylugnuts> we'll see
[21:49] <ShellEvil> you can turn on local echo on many termianl programs
[21:49] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah
[21:49] <fuzzylugnuts> that would be great
[21:49] <ShellEvil> also - you're just complicating your life by using a normal terminal program
[21:50] <fuzzylugnuts> I don't plan to
[21:50] <fuzzylugnuts> not for the ground station
[21:50] <fuzzylugnuts> just using getty for the balloon
[21:58] <fuzzylugnuts> ah well
[21:58] <fuzzylugnuts> we'll see
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[00:00] --- Sat Sep 12 2009