highaltitude.log.20090907

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[04:52] <ybit2> how do you get around airport fees?
[04:52] <ybit2> i've been discussing electric motor gliders in another channel, because they are what most interests me right now in personal aviation
[04:53] <SpikeUK> !mes rjharrison_home did you do a launch yesterday (09/09/09)? http://spacenear.us/tracker/ shows a new Icarus track. If that is true, I wish that I'd known as I did a talk about HAB yesterday at http://www.barcampbrighton.org/ and to show a live mission would have been awesome.
[04:53] <SpeedEvil> ybit2: this is more a unmanned channel really.
[04:53] <SpeedEvil> though of course welcome here - but...
[04:54] <SpeedEvil> Electric motor gliders are a hell of a lot less endurance than motorgliders of course.
[04:54] <SpikeUK> Sorry for noise guys!
[04:54] <SpeedEvil> somewere I did the sums replacing a stemme S40e with batteries.
[04:55] <SpeedEvil> IIRC 1/8th of the endurance.
[04:55] <ybit2> hi SpeedEvil
[04:56] <ybit2> i like the HK36 Super Dimona
[04:57] <ybit2> ..in particular. has there been any previous thought on getting around airport fees?
[04:57] <ybit2> that just seems like it would drain my pocket quickly
[04:58] <ybit2> http://www.electraflyer.com/ and http://solar-flight.com/ have been my inspiration
[05:01] <SpeedEvil> ybit2:
[05:01] <SpeedEvil> The second is almost meaningless
[05:01] <SpeedEvil> if you want cheap flight
[05:02] <SpeedEvil> http://www.electraflyer.com/electraflyerc.php - for example - the batteries will at 1 year be significantly degraded over new.
[05:03] <SpeedEvil> And will last probably meaningfully for under 200 flights
[05:05] <ybit2> ..before needing replacement, wonder how much the batteries cost
[05:07] <SpeedEvil> For 5.6KWh - at least $10K
[05:07] <SpeedEvil> probably more like 20
[05:08] <SpeedEvil> It depends if you're willing to go with really cheap cells from ebay :)
[05:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU forex
[05:12] <ybit2> well, that puts things in a more harsh perspective :)
[05:13] <SpeedEvil> though more sanely - improperly constructed batteries - or cells within those batteries with defects - can heat, and even catch fire.
[05:13] <SpeedEvil> the battery has to be properly constructed to stop that spreading.
[05:13] <ybit2> for getting around airport feels, someone mentioned a few aircraft which are capable of being put on a trailer
[05:13] <SpeedEvil> This isn't completely trivial.
[05:14] <ybit2> "pull off the rear draggy wheel, insert trailer hitch, fold or detach wings, drive off"
[05:14] <SpeedEvil> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.homebuilt/topics - may be of use
[05:14] <SpeedEvil> though you probably want to use a sane usenet reader not google groups
[05:15] <ybit2> thank you for the link, it will definitely be of use
[05:19] <SpikeUK> Bye guys - got to go to work
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[16:55] <fuzzylugnuts> Heya
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[17:10] <fuzzylugnuts> I've got 30lbs of dry ice
[17:11] <fuzzylugnuts> sparkfun's weatherboard does fairly well
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[17:19] <SpeedEvil> why ice?
[17:25] <fuzzylugnuts> my freezer only gets down to -17c
[17:25] <fuzzylugnuts> the dry ice gets down to -78
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> I mean - why?
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> oviously you want to cool something
[17:32] <fuzzylugnuts> ...sparkfun's weatherboard
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> oh
[17:33] Action: SpeedEvil is slow today.
[17:33] <fuzzylugnuts> k
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Been moving too much rock again.
[17:33] <fuzzylugnuts> its ok
[17:33] <fuzzylugnuts> ahh
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> And setting fire to stuff.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> (not the rock)
[17:34] <fuzzylugnuts> : )
[17:35] <fuzzylugnuts> the temperature sensor on the humidity sensor went down to -40 and bottomed out, as the spec sheet said it would
[17:35] <fuzzylugnuts> the temperature sensor on the pressure sensor went down to -80 and below and then started wigging out
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> what's the payload for?
[17:36] <fuzzylugnuts> fun : )
[17:36] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm just getting the sensor issues settled
[17:37] <fuzzylugnuts> I've got the sparfun weatherboard for humidity, pressure, temp, ambient light
[17:37] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm going to pick up an overo and summit board sometime soon
[17:38] <fuzzylugnuts> the storm case and panel mounting kit have been ordered, same with the barebones computer for the ground station
[17:39] <fuzzylugnuts> my goal is to make a launch vehicle that other people can use to take their experiments up, have remote control and real-time data reporting from
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> fun
[17:40] <fuzzylugnuts> Yah
[17:40] <fuzzylugnuts> and expensive
[17:40] <fuzzylugnuts> the storm case and panel kit was 200 bucks
[17:45] <fuzzylugnuts> but my 19" monitor bolts to the lid of it x)
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> huh?
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> oh - for a ground station.
[17:46] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[17:46] <fuzzylugnuts> then I can stuff all the APRS and radiomodem hardware in the bottom part of the case
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> I wondered WTF you'd use a monitor on a payload for.
[17:47] <fuzzylugnuts> haha
[17:48] <fuzzylugnuts> I'll just work on this over a year or so
[17:48] <fuzzylugnuts> as funding becomes available
[17:56] <fuzzylugnuts> the radio modems are going to be pretty expensive
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> for APRS - guess so
[17:58] <fuzzylugnuts> naw
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> oh - you're wanting bidirectional
[17:58] <fuzzylugnuts> yep
[17:58] <fuzzylugnuts> aprs is just for position reporting
[17:59] <fuzzylugnuts> the 500mw transcievers I was using before worked well, but I need to include flow control
[18:00] <fuzzylugnuts> and it cut out a bit
[18:00] <fuzzylugnuts> so this time I'm going to use the 2w versions and a corner antenna
[18:00] <SpeedEvil> freq?
[18:00] <fuzzylugnuts> 2m ham band
[18:00] <fuzzylugnuts> 144ish
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> not a dish then I guess. :)
[18:02] Action: SpeedEvil has a 1.2m dish for use when he gets his UAV sorted.
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> 802.11A
[18:02] <fuzzylugnuts> Cool
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> Though backup as bluetooth, 433mhz serial
[18:02] <fuzzylugnuts> *nodnods*
[18:04] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm going to stick with the energizer batteries too, instead of the prismatic LiFePO4s
[18:04] <fuzzylugnuts> they're just so awesome and dense
[18:08] <fuzzylugnuts> I miss funding ;_;
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[18:13] <fuzzylugnuts> gah
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> ran out of net funding?
[18:15] <Matt_APEX> you could use agwpe at the ground station instead of a hardware modem?
[18:16] <fuzzylugnuts> for aprs or remote terminal?
[18:17] <fuzzylugnuts> I already have a kantronics TNC laying around
[18:18] <Matt_APEX> well as the modem on the ground, is a ax25 encode/decode via soundcard thing
[18:18] <fuzzylugnuts> oooh yeah, naw
[18:18] <fuzzylugnuts> I don't want to mess with that again
[18:18] <fuzzylugnuts> I tried and failed ;_;
[18:18] <Matt_APEX> really y? it worked fine for us
[18:19] <fuzzylugnuts> I had it installed on the gumstix and my desktop, linked by the soundcard, did all the configs, and couldn't ping the other computer
[18:20] <fuzzylugnuts> That would be great if I could get it to work
[18:20] <fuzzylugnuts> what did you guys have set up?
[18:20] <Matt_APEX> may find http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:apex-i useful
[18:21] <Matt_APEX> and http://www.hexoc.com/wb/pages/apex-i.php
[18:22] <Matt_APEX> well had u managed to listen to traffic from the aprs network?
[18:22] <Matt_APEX> were the radios def. transmitting?
[18:22] <fuzzylugnuts> I think we are confused here
[18:22] <fuzzylugnuts> the APRS systems are working fine for me
[18:23] <Matt_APEX> yea im not quite sure what u ment ;p
[18:23] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[18:23] <Matt_APEX> but agwpe would be the cheaper option if u got it working
[18:24] <fuzzylugnuts> I am flying a gumstix computer and looking to have a remote serial console
[18:24] <fuzzylugnuts> I did this a year or so ago with some radiometrix transcievers
[18:25] <Matt_APEX> and couldnt get it working with agwpe? but the kantronics one works?
[18:25] <fuzzylugnuts> no, I didn't mess with agwpe at all
[18:25] <fuzzylugnuts> I use byonics microtrak 300s and the kantronix
[18:26] <Matt_APEX> yea i was suggesting it as a cheap ground station rx'er but u said u couldnt get it working?
[18:26] <fuzzylugnuts> naw, what I couldn't get working was the AX.25 network connection between the gumstix and desktop
[18:26] <Matt_APEX> oh
[18:27] <Matt_APEX> i cant say we got remote terminal working either
[18:27] <fuzzylugnuts> : (
[18:27] <fuzzylugnuts> it would be so great
[18:27] <fuzzylugnuts> and soooo much cheaper
[18:27] <Matt_APEX> i assume this is running some sorta linux?
[18:27] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[18:28] <fuzzylugnuts> OE on the gumstix and suse on the desktop
[18:28] <Matt_APEX> we did manage getting two way comms tho
[18:28] <fuzzylugnuts> how?
[18:28] <fuzzylugnuts> with ax.25?
[18:28] <Matt_APEX> yea
[18:29] <fuzzylugnuts> ah, cool.
[18:29] <Matt_APEX> there was a perl script listening to incomming traffic and decoding it
[18:29] <fuzzylugnuts> oooh ok
[18:29] <Matt_APEX> its described on one of the links if u want more info
[18:29] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[18:29] <Matt_APEX> but i didnt do that bit so i dont know exactly how it worked
[18:30] <fuzzylugnuts> once I get the overo system up and running I'll try the ax.25 networking again
[18:31] <Matt_APEX> u can try, but we tried for ages and never got it working
[18:31] <fuzzylugnuts> : (
[18:31] <fuzzylugnuts> I remember it being so close too
[18:31] <Matt_APEX> but thers always an alternative which is what we settled for
[18:31] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[18:31] <Matt_APEX> if jon_APEX were around he would be able to talk in detail
[18:32] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[18:32] <Matt_APEX> we wernt that far off either
[18:32] <Matt_APEX> and in the end we didnt use the uplink :p
[18:32] <fuzzylugnuts> aww
[18:33] <fuzzylugnuts> we used ours primarily for telling the gumstix to initiate the cutdown
[18:33] <Matt_APEX> yea same
[18:33] <fuzzylugnuts> since trossen has that nice pan tilt interface, its one more thing to control
[18:33] <Matt_APEX> yea
[18:34] <Matt_APEX> but if its jsut a few things, u could get a perl script to listen for a few commands?
[18:34] <fuzzylugnuts> I'd like a little more flexability than that
[18:34] <fuzzylugnuts> I'll get it working one way or another
[18:34] <Matt_APEX> and this was our modem on the balloon http://www.tnc-x.com/
[18:35] <fuzzylugnuts> ah, ok
[18:35] <fuzzylugnuts> cool
[18:35] <Matt_APEX> although back to my orginal point, agwpe is the cheap option to
[18:35] <Matt_APEX> TNCs on the ground
[18:35] <Matt_APEX> :p
[18:35] <fuzzylugnuts> mhmm
[18:36] <fuzzylugnuts> the 500mw transcievers I used were about 200 a pop
[18:36] <Matt_APEX> £ ? $?
[18:36] <fuzzylugnuts> nice and small, light, and was pretty transparent to the gumsix's serial console
[18:36] <fuzzylugnuts> USD
[18:37] <fuzzylugnuts> its a UK business so it might be cheaper for you all, I dunno
[18:37] <fuzzylugnuts> the UHX1 from radiometrix
[18:38] <Matt_APEX> mm
[18:38] <fuzzylugnuts> without flow control you had to type kinda slow so it wasn't sending data while the balloon terminal was echoing what you just typed
[18:38] <fuzzylugnuts> but ti was doable
[18:38] <fuzzylugnuts> even vim worked
[18:38] <fuzzylugnuts> which was slightly orgasmic.
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> err
[18:38] <Matt_APEX> or get it to not echo?
[18:38] <Matt_APEX> er?
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> yes, err
[18:39] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah, but it was like a handshake so I could see that the command went threough
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> I was about to continue with a thought - which I have now forgotten
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> I think it was along the lines of slip supporting half-duplex links or something
[18:40] <Matt_APEX> anyway we;re using the BiM1 which cost us £20 (got half price thru the school ;) )
[18:40] <fuzzylugnuts> aww nice
[18:40] <fuzzylugnuts> in my old group we had nasa funding and money from the space pictures we sold, so we paid full
[18:40] <Matt_APEX> yea
[18:41] <Matt_APEX> even so a rather large price differnece
[18:41] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[18:41] <Matt_APEX> i know ur ones are fancer
[18:41] <Matt_APEX> fancier
[18:41] <fuzzylugnuts> they include audio in out
[18:41] <fuzzylugnuts> I think the MiM1 has a dumb modem in it
[18:41] <fuzzylugnuts> did it?/
[18:41] <Matt_APEX> biM1
[18:41] <fuzzylugnuts> *bim1
[18:41] <Matt_APEX> and theu have no modem
[18:41] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[18:42] <fuzzylugnuts> ah ok
[18:42] <fuzzylugnuts> i like that part
[18:42] <Matt_APEX> just data in one end, audio/data out other
[18:42] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[18:42] <Matt_APEX> we're making our own modems
[18:42] <fuzzylugnuts> Thats neat
[18:43] <Matt_APEX> v2 is the cheap version :p
[18:44] <fuzzylugnuts> I just don't have time to mess with the real basic stuff anymore. its so much more rewarding to do stuff like write your own modem and stuff like that : )
[18:44] <fuzzylugnuts> and I'm a one man show here in TN
[18:45] <Matt_APEX> well i think im pretty much the one man on the electronics
[18:45] <fuzzylugnuts> ahh
[18:45] <Matt_APEX> but i have nothing to do atm :p
[18:45] <fuzzylugnuts> aww.
[18:46] <Matt_APEX> and instead of linux boards, PICs
[18:46] <Matt_APEX> so massive price saving there
[18:46] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> Matt_APEX: maybe
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> Matt_APEX: bifferos.com
[18:46] <fuzzylugnuts> I don't know squat aboutmicrocontrollers : (
[18:47] <KingJ> Had no findings on the original APEX yet have you?
[18:47] <Matt_APEX> nope
[18:47] <Matt_APEX> and £29 aint bad
[18:47] <Matt_APEX> still 6x the price of a PIC
[18:48] <Matt_APEX> and they are probably easier to program than linux
[18:48] <Matt_APEX> much simpler
[18:48] <Matt_APEX> well depends on choice of PIC language
[18:48] <Matt_APEX> picaxe good starting point
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> yes - it's a very different thing.
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> But you are going to have considerably more trouble hooking on a USB webcam say on the PIC
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> But a simple A/D would be easier on the pic
[18:51] <Matt_APEX> yea depends what i want to do
[18:51] <Matt_APEX> if u used the linux board we would still have a pic board connected to sensors and other basic i/o things
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> PRetty much
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> Unless you can live with teh very limited IO - or something like a soundcard for sampling
[18:53] <fuzzylugnuts> it would be nice if there was a board out there that had like, 10 channels or so of ADC at 12b resolution, that just spit out the values in CSV at some interval
[18:53] <fuzzylugnuts> know of anything like that?
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> I mean - it would be nice
[18:53] <fuzzylugnuts> aww
[18:55] <Matt_APEX> if i were u id get a PICAXE and learn how to use it (if u have time)
[18:55] <Matt_APEX> they are very simple
[18:56] <Matt_APEX> anyway im off for a bit, bye
[18:56] <fuzzylugnuts> later
[18:57] <fuzzylugnuts> s
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[20:47] <Laurenceb> hi all
[20:48] <SpikeUK> Laurenceb how goes it?
[20:48] <Laurenceb> tired
[20:49] <Laurenceb> was working for 72 hours non stop over the weekend :-/
[20:50] <SpikeUK> Yikes!
[20:50] <SpikeUK> Hope you've got some "down time" now!
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[20:52] <Laurenceb> was just up a chimney fixing the aerial
[20:54] <SpikeUK> Laurenceb 72 hours to fix an aerial? How high was the chimney?
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[20:54] <Laurenceb> lol
[20:54] <Laurenceb> no that was this evening
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[20:54] <SpikeUK> Ah. Ok ;-)
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[20:56] <SpikeUK> I was at a Bar Camp in Brighton - I did a pres about HABs. Seems to have stirred up some interest. Been asked to do similar in Manchester in Nov.
[20:57] <SpikeUK> Do we have anyone in the HAB community closer to Manch than me?
[20:58] <Laurenceb> I'm in Derbyshire
[21:04] <SpikeUK> Closer than Surrey ;-) Would you be up for a BarCamp in Manchester 7/8th Nov http://bcman2.eventbrite.com/ ?
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[21:06] <Laurenceb> SpikeUK: whre do you live?
[21:07] <Laurenceb> and whats br camp?
[21:10] <SpikeUK> Weybridge, in Surrey. A BarCamp is a sort of freeform conference. Everybody attending should do a 30min presentation or help is some other way. They tend to be fairly geeky, but that's not universal. Good place to start is http://barcamp.org/
[21:10] <Laurenceb> ah ok
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