highaltitude.log.20090812

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[10:50] <sjgibbs> Saw this, thought of you guys:
[10:50] <sjgibbs> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/picture-galleries/5973258/Cities-at-night-from-space-photographed-by-NASA-astronauts-on-the-International-Space-Station.html
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[11:02] <jontyw> Wow, that's fantastic
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[11:05] <sjgibbs> they are pretty good, but generating your own from a slightly more convenient altitude would also be cool...
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[11:09] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[11:30] <rjharrison> Hey DanielRichman At work ATM I think I may have found a probalem with the circuit. So I will have a fiddle tonight and I will get the serial debug stuff working
[11:41] <DanielRichman> rjharrison: ok. I will be on and off today and I'll probably be unreachable after 5. If you can run it and dump everything it spews over serial to a file can examine that later or tomorrow. What was the problem?
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[16:02] <cuddykid> Hi All, I am still preparing for my first flight and I have now got most of the parts for the payload. Most things are clear in my head but the bit I am uncertain about is how to feed the data from my etrex to the NTX2 radio? I have an arduino. Would I need to encode the raw feed out of the gps? if so how would i go about doing this? Many Thanks in advance!
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[16:05] <SpeedEvil> you need to - probably - strip out most of the data
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> the full datastream is very fast - and contains lots of information you don't care about.
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> You want to go from:
[16:08] <cuddykid> Hi SpeedEvil
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> sorry for the lag
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> you want to go to:
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> ATLAS145122:22:3752.7930.41927446.0000.2;0;0
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> or something similar - which you transmit from the device
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> ATLAS,1451,22:22:37,52.793,0.419,27446.000,0.2;0;0 I mean
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> (see http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide)
[16:11] <cuddykid> thanks
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> $GPRMC,090816.521,V,0000.0000,N,00000.0000,E,,,300309,,,N*7F $GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K,N*2C $GPGGA,090817.521,0000.0000,N,00000.0000,E,0,00,,0.0,M,0.0,M,,0000*42 $GPRMC,090817.521,V,0000.0000,N,00000.0000,E,,,300309,,,N*7E $GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K,N*2C
[16:12] <cuddykid> how do you get the arduino to output this to the radio? Do you have to send it via rtty or something?
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> $GPGGA,090818.521,0000.0000,N,00000.0000,E,0,00,,0.0,M,0.0,M,,0000*4D
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> which is - for example - one complete 'cycle' from a GPS
[16:12] <cuddykid> i see
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> and then extract the key information - lat/lon/height - and then send this at 50bps to the radio
[16:13] <cuddykid> and the radio will automatically encode (rtty) and send it?
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> you need to hook the UART to the radio - but through a divider - so that the '1' - 5V - comes out at 2.5V - and 0 comes out as 2.4V
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> (or similar
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> no - the radio knows nuffink!
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> The UART in the AVR encodes the serial
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> the radio merely takes the input voltage, and outputs a frequency of 433MHz+x*input voltage
[16:15] <cuddykid> ahh! ok
[16:15] <cuddykid> is the UART in the arduino?
[16:19] <sbasuita_> cuddykid, yes, the arduino has a uart
[16:19] Nick change: sbasuita_ -> sbasuita
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> I can't find any pages detailing the voltages needed
[16:19] <cuddykid> thanks sbasuita
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> What's the total frequency range of the transmitter you are using - and what voltage is the tuning range?
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> You want to have the difference between '1' and '0' ending up at 200Hz or so
[16:21] <cuddykid> I will be using the NTX2 434.075MHz
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> what is the frequency range over which it can transmit - +-50KHz, ...
[16:23] <cuddykid> umm, i'm not sure :S !!
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> do you have a datasheet link?
[16:24] <cuddykid> hold on, i might be able to find one
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> sorry - net is playing silly buggers here
[16:24] <cuddykid> http://www.radiometrix.com/node/343
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> As is mains - currently going off for 10s every 5 mins. Odd.
[16:25] <cuddykid> haha
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> Ok
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> you care about the lines
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> FM deviation (peak) ±2.5 ±3 ±3.5 kHz 4
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> and
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> 4. With 0V - 3.0V modulation input.
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> So - it's about 1V/KHz change
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> So - to get 200Hz - you need .2V - a voltage divider of some form.
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> (from the probably 3.3/0 of the arduino UART output)
[16:28] <cuddykid> ok
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> Do you understand how to do that?
[16:29] <cuddykid> no!
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> Read the ebook in the topic is a good start
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> err
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> no
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> wrong group
[16:32] <cuddykid> would i just need a voltage divider to be connected to the serial port of arduino and then output it to that (which is connected to radio) or is there a lot more to it? !!
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> Ok - something like a 10K variable resistor - one end hooked to +3.3V, one to 0 - this sets the 'default' voltage.
[16:33] <cuddykid> ok
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> This wiper of this is hooked to the radio input.
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> Also connected to the radio input is a 10K resistor, in series with a 470K variable resistor - which is hooked up to the serial output of the AVR
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> So it goes AVR->470Kvariable ->10K ->wiper of other pot connected to radio input
[16:36] <cuddykid> ok
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> this lets you twiddle the 10K pot - and set the centre voltage - and twiddle the 470K and set the divisor ratio
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> there wwill be some interaction between these - but that's moments of twiddling.
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> Or you can use a voltmeter and resistors to figure out the voltage you want
[16:37] <cuddykid> wow!! :O sounds v. complicated!!
[16:38] <sbasuita> cuddykid, http://alienproject.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/radiometrix-circuit-diagram.png
[16:38] <sbasuita> cuddykid, those values are for a 5v power supply
[16:38] <sbasuita> cuddykid, but you get the idea
[16:38] <cuddykid> thanks
[16:41] <cuddykid> thanks for all the help SpeedEvil and sbasuita. I have to go now! I will have a read up and hopefully i will figure it out!
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[21:06] <edmoore> hi RocketBoy
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[21:13] <RocketBoy> hi edmoore - have you cusf guys improved the predictor for mobile use - or is it the new safari that has improved things on my iphone
[21:13] <RocketBoy> ?
[21:14] <edmoore> new safari
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[21:14] <RocketBoy> ah ok - its not too bad now
[21:14] <edmoore> I don't think anyone has touched it recently, and there's nothing to it except gmaps and some php, so any saving would probs come from gmaps i suspect
[21:15] <RocketBoy> well its definitely usable now
[21:15] <edmoore> cool
[21:16] <RocketBoy> how is badger cub comming along?
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[21:17] <edmoore> cub is sort of working, though doing vanilla rtty is proving a bit painful
[21:18] <edmoore> am just reading its MSK section now and messing with that. But it basically wants to do stuff slightly beyond the passband of most radios
[21:18] <edmoore> Badger2 on the other hand... layout stress. Most complex PCB I've ever done.
[21:19] <RocketBoy> ooo - badger2 - whats in that?
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[21:21] <edmoore> bigger arm, 3 axis of gyro, 3 of accel, 3 magnetic, 2 axis of high g accel for rocket, 2 pyro channels with cont check, 70cm radio, 1 embedded gps, 1 software defined gps, pressure, temperature, full speed SD card logging, and a gumstix
[21:22] <edmoore> in a pear tree
[21:22] <edmoore> on a 45mm x 110mm pcb, to fit in t'rocket
[21:23] <RocketBoy> I keep toying with jumping platforms - my code is busting the current PIC - its either an upgrade of pic or jump to somthing else
[21:23] <edmoore> oh and usb slave and host, and broken out IO - SPI, i2c, ADC channels etc
[21:23] <RocketBoy> whats the power consumption of that lot?
[21:23] <edmoore> best not to ask
[21:23] <RocketBoy> ;-)
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[21:23] <edmoore> well, ignoring gumstix for a second
[21:24] <edmoore> about 30mA for the arm, 35mA for the single GPS, and maybe 10mA for the inertial sensors, and a few mA for the SD card - in basic mode it's about the same as badger
[21:25] <edmoore> with full speed everything, including running the gumstix and full whack, probably about 400mA. It would be in that state for the rocket flight.
[21:25] <RocketBoy> thats not too bad
[21:25] <RocketBoy> (the 75ma that is)
[21:26] <edmoore> but yes, lots of it is not needed for a normal balloon flight. It's basically the flight computer to end them all, for our forseeable future projects (current ones, marlet, hobble etc)
[21:27] <RocketBoy> GPS lassen?
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[21:28] <RocketBoy> TX radiometrix? or the cub jobby?
[21:28] <edmoore> the embedded one is either a Venus or uBlox 5
[21:28] <edmoore> there's footprints for both
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[21:28] <edmoore> Tx and Rx are currently the same as cub
[21:28] <edmoore> the software one is a RF front end and the gumstix - hallam will tell you all about that :)
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[21:34] <edmoore> all this is assuming it all fits on this board :) so far so good, but it's always that random bloody bit here or there that makes you have to re-think the layout
[21:38] <RocketBoy> yeah - good layput is a bit of a black art - a bit like a jigsaw puzzel.
[21:40] <RocketBoy> for the times I have tried to use eagle I found it a bit frustrating in the way it auto-routes - I always manage to find better layouts that are more compact
[21:40] <edmoore> it's tricky too - two sensitive gps units, an rf transciever, lots of digital lines, high current driver channels and sensitive analogue sensors, all in pretty close proximity
[21:40] <edmoore> I'm using split ground planes to try and keep the various sectors isolated and happy
[21:41] <edmoore> oh, the auto-router is a non-starter, I find
[21:42] <edmoore> it can never be as good as a human who actually understands what signals carry what and which bits can interfere with each other
[21:48] <edmoore> right, calling it a day
[21:48] <edmoore> see you
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[21:59] Action: RocketBoy bangs his head against the wall - why is the jetstream so pants lately
[22:00] Action: SpeedEvil farted.
[22:01] <natrium42> RocketBoy, we need to get richard pryor to hack a weather satellite and control the weather for us
[22:02] <RocketBoy> yeah - or tow the UK somwhere else
[22:03] <natrium42> haha
[22:10] <RocketBoy> The methanol turned up today - i now have a selection of anti-freeze componets to play with - methanol, propylene glycol and ethylene glycol - the little pumps i have been playig with seem fine with the glycols - I need to try the methanol next
[22:15] <natrium42> cool
[22:15] <natrium42> how low can you get with the temperature?
[22:17] <RocketBoy> about -25C at the moment - but I hope to get lower shortly using peltier effect divices inside a freezer
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[22:27] <natrium42> RocketBoy, do you think playing with pressure would help?
[22:28] <natrium42> cool to -25C at high pressure inside and then reduce pressure
[22:29] Action: natrium42 checks alienproject.wordpress.com
[22:29] Action: natrium42 looks at DanielRichman
[22:29] Action: DanielRichman uses mirror to reflect blame to our person-in-charge-of-blog and all writing, AlexBreton
[22:29] <natrium42> rofl
[22:29] <natrium42> well, he is not here :P
[22:30] <DanielRichman> exactly!
[22:30] <DanielRichman> probably eating some chocolate or something
[22:30] <natrium42> mmh, chocolate
[22:30] <DanielRichman> he was in my garage 5 mins before he found and raided the cadbury's
[22:33] <natrium42> some people send chocolate up on the payload
[22:33] <natrium42> extra incentive to retrieve the payload if it gets stuck up in a tree
[22:33] <DanielRichman> interesting idea. Might do that
[22:34] <DanielRichman> be back later
[22:34] <natrium42> l8r
[22:35] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-159-200-131.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:35] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:37] <natrium42> othello Laurenceb
[22:41] <Laurenceb> oh Romeo
[22:43] <natrium42> how is thou doing?
[22:43] <natrium42> -is +are
[22:43] <natrium42> or?
[22:43] Action: Laurenceb is watching the demented cartoon movie
[22:44] <Laurenceb> qrrrbrrbrlbr
[22:45] <natrium42> base64?
[22:48] <DanielRichman> bmF0cml1bTQyIHNtZWxscwo=
[22:48] <RocketBoy> nights
[22:48] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) left irc: "Leaving"
[22:50] <natrium42> bmF0cml1bTQyIHNsYXBzIERhbmllbFJpY2htYW4gYXJvdW5kIGEgYml0IHdpdGggYSB0cm91dA==
[22:51] <DanielRichman> RGFuaWVsUmljaG1hbiByZXR1cm5zIGZpcmUgd2l0aCBhIGZldyBzYWxtb24gYW5kIGEgc2VhaG9y
[22:51] <DanielRichman> c2UK
[22:54] <natrium42> bG9s
[22:54] <DanielRichman> ohg pna lbh unaqyr ebg13?
[22:57] <natrium42> bs pbhefr
[22:58] <DanielRichman> buj'i kf jxu qdju q byjjbu...
[23:00] <natrium42> jfyumy, cn'm mncff yums ni lywiahcty lin-10 :J
[23:04] <DanielRichman> cautlayli taw sor4t,2b tus niec4 2 %62= 1 6ro- 01.. .); Hwoa obtus mo eispmels uhffilgno felttre?s
[23:04] Xenion (n=robert@p579FC81A.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Verlassend"
[23:05] <Laurenceb> what have I started now
[23:05] <DanielRichman> Why not join in? ABAAABAABA'BAAAB AABABBAABBABBAA!
[23:05] Action: SpeedEvil prefers rot26.
[23:06] <DanielRichman> :P
[23:07] <KingJ> For extra security, I apply rot13 twice
[23:08] <DanielRichman> But of course!
[23:08] <natrium42> KingJ, rofl
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[23:18] <DanielRichman> natrium42, when do we move onto stego?
[23:20] <natrium42> it's enough for today :P
[23:20] <DanielRichman> pff. have you got my last two messages yet or are you giving up ;D
[23:20] <DanielRichman> I suppose i have a bit of an unfair advantage: old project, http://code.google.com/p/cifer/
[23:21] <natrium42> haha, nice
[23:21] <natrium42> damn you XD
[23:22] <DanielRichman> once you know how to use it (not the most friendly program in the world), you can munch all of the above in clock cycles that you can count on your fingers
[23:22] <natrium42> neat
[23:22] <sbasuita> So it DOES have a use
[23:22] <natrium42> winning irc encryption wars?
[23:23] <sbasuita> And yes, daniel bastardised the ui.
[23:23] hallam (n=hallam@c-67-169-9-130.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[23:23] <DanielRichman> forexample, on jfyumy, cn'm mncff yums ni lywiahcty lin-10 :J ...
[23:23] <DanielRichman> cifer> vigenere buffer_5 buffer_6 1 1
[23:23] <DanielRichman> auto expanding output buffer_6 to 47 bytes.
[23:23] <DanielRichman> Attempting Vigenere Cipher Crack 1 -> 1 keylen
[23:23] <DanielRichman> Keyword: u - 20
[23:23] <DanielRichman> Overall Delta IC: 1.700000
[23:23] <DanielRichman> please, it's still easy to recognize rot-10 :p
[23:25] <DanielRichman> I still need to write the autopwn mode. Currently it requires a sprinkling of skill to recognise the command to use
[23:25] <natrium42> hehe
[23:28] <DanielRichman> http://pastebin.com/m36a7fcd9
[23:29] <sbasuita> You know, ##crypto is still there....
[23:29] <DanielRichman> yea but where's the ##crypto-war
[23:29] <DanielRichman> besides, there's no crypto in that. just some obscurity
[23:29] <sbasuita> It's still jokes
[23:30] <DanielRichman> (obscurity in http://pastebin.com/m36a7fcd9, i mean)
[23:31] <natrium42> is that base32 or what?
[23:31] <DanielRichman> base64, but that's only cause tiz binary data
[23:31] <natrium42> ah
[23:33] <natrium42> well, you win
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[23:34] <DanielRichman> http://pastebin.com/m36a7fcd9 is more obscure than difficult - here's a hint: python
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[23:35] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, compiled python in base64? You expect someone to run that?
[23:35] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, just sudo su nobody and run it under that if you're scared
[23:36] <DanielRichman> but yeah, pyc
[23:36] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, just a guess
[23:36] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, btw, while I've got your attention, how's the yagi?
[23:36] Action: sbasuita goes back to reading day of the triffids
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[23:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, er, the yagi?
[23:39] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yeah, the yagi!
[23:39] <DanielRichman> natrium42, see, can't get the staff
[23:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we're going to borrow the yagi from somewhere
[23:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, but not yet
[23:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, cause we can't borrow it for too long
[23:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, see?
[23:39] <DanielRichman> but we can?
[23:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, I would assume so
[23:40] <natrium42> <Obama> Yes we can!
[23:40] Action: sbasuita does the obama dance
[23:40] <DanielRichman> the OBAMA DANCE?
[23:40] <DanielRichman> but yeah, awesome
[23:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, any idea where the hell Alex is?
[23:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, I bet if you type it into youtube, something funny will appear
[23:41] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no
[23:41] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, if you type anything into youtube you have a 50% chance of finding something that someone will find funny
[23:41] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, have you tried phoning him yet?
[23:41] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i think so
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[23:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, have you tested the electronics yet?
[23:44] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, hell yes
[23:44] <DanielRichman> need to flash the computer again... made a few tweaks, but basically it's working
[23:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, how long does it last on the batteries?
[23:44] <DanielRichman> although i haven't tested the radio cause I cant recieve
[23:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, haven't burn't down yet
[23:45] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, should do that
[23:45] <DanielRichman> but I imagine a good few hours, IIRC it runs on 100mA
[23:45] <DanielRichman> and the batteries are 3000mAh
[23:45] <DanielRichman> I think.
[23:45] <DanielRichman> (so 30 hours)
[23:45] <sbasuita> cool
[23:45] <DanielRichman> SD card is working, GPS still works...
[23:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, do the amp hours change with temperature?
[23:46] <DanielRichman> temperature isn't working, will sort that out later
[23:46] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no idea. but to be fair, 30 is plenty
[23:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, well, would check the datasheet anyhow
[23:46] <DanielRichman> k
[23:46] <sbasuita> I remember it had some graphs
[23:46] <sbasuita> maybe temperature
[23:46] <DanielRichman> yes, I remember temperature on the graphs
[23:46] <DanielRichman> the lassen is a bit of a pain
[23:47] <DanielRichman> it has Brown Out enabled - when the voltage drops too low, it just cuts out
[23:47] <DanielRichman> the atmega can do that to-optionally
[23:47] <DanielRichman> but it works fine (not perfectly) on very low voltage
[23:47] <DanielRichman> enough to find it
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[23:52] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we'll see how many batteries we need to cover it properly
[23:53] <DanielRichman> I reckon only one set of six
[23:53] <DanielRichman> six of them makes a nice 9v so the voltage can drop due to the batteries running out before the lassen dies
[00:00] --- Thu Aug 13 2009