highaltitude.log.20090803

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[00:32] <SpeedEvil> gnuplot - how do ignore a leading "Fri" in a time format specifier? wondering if anyone happens to know
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[00:36] <Laurenceb> hi
[00:36] <Laurenceb> me has been playing with rocket sims
[00:37] <Laurenceb> found some regressuion rate equations for AP propellant
[00:37] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a new version of 'sims'.
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> http://spacefellowship.com/2009/08/01/interorbital-syatems-tubesat-personal-satellite-kit/
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> too
[00:37] <Laurenceb> looks like the cesaroni "14 second" burner isnt at all
[00:38] <Laurenceb> the maximum you can do with a ~80mm rocket is about 8 seconds
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[00:38] <Laurenceb> their 14 second rocket has a small nozzle
[00:38] <Laurenceb> and acts as a hot gas rocket
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> Have you looked at the pressure curves?
[00:38] <Laurenceb> the burn is about 6 econds
[00:38] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> the thrust curves and worked out chamber pressure
[00:39] <Laurenceb> its exponential decal after
[00:39] <Laurenceb> 6 seconds
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:39] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[00:39] <Laurenceb> but the thing is 6.5 second burn time with one of the other motors doesnt hurt you too much
[00:40] <Laurenceb> you have burnout at about 35Km or so
[00:40] <Laurenceb> as opposed to about 45
[00:41] <Laurenceb> they stole my idea
[00:41] <Laurenceb> thieves
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> It was my idea first!
[00:41] Action: Laurenceb launches legal action
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if they mandate use of their hardware
[00:41] <Laurenceb> thats _very_ cheap
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> they have a 750g package
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> which you can put 200g of your own in
[00:42] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if they object if you make a mechanically compatible one of the same all-up-mass
[00:42] <Laurenceb> oh ok
[00:42] <Laurenceb> thats worse
[00:42] <Laurenceb> yeah what I've designed would be roughly equivalent then
[00:46] <Laurenceb> flexseals are interesting
[00:46] <Laurenceb> maybe better than the titanium alloy ball joint I was thinking of, and cheaper
[00:51] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8171327.stm
[00:52] <Laurenceb> "The 96kg, 60cm cube is also carrying a student experiment called Poise, which was developed by pupils at Shrewsbury School, in Shropshire."
[00:52] <Laurenceb> or not as the case may be...
[00:53] <Laurenceb> they are using flashing the gps in orbit with some custom firmware
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> flashing in orbit?
[00:56] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:57] Action: Laurenceb grabs his binoculars to spectate
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> why?
[01:01] <Laurenceb> flashers
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> oh
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> optically flashing
[01:02] <Laurenceb> well you could use RF and be a camwhore
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I did the numbers a while back - being visible from orbit with todays LEDs isn't too bad
[01:03] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashing
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[01:11] <Laurenceb> http://www.desertec.org/en/ ,- interesting
[01:13] <SpeedEvil> Ah yes.
[01:13] <SpeedEvil> Because deserts are usually situated in such good political climates.
[01:14] <SpeedEvil> And long transmultinational energy conduits are a really good idea.
[01:14] <Laurenceb> if you have a grid its very reliable
[01:14] <Laurenceb> and HVDC gives low losses
[01:15] <SpeedEvil> umm - no.
[01:15] <SpeedEvil> Consider gas pipelines and russia
[01:15] <SpeedEvil> I don't mean technical problems.
[01:20] <Laurenceb> all the gas comes via russia
[01:20] <Laurenceb> that was the issue
[01:20] <Laurenceb> you dont have to do that with a grid
[01:21] <SpeedEvil> There is still the issue of instability.
[01:21] <SpeedEvil> And balance of payments.
[01:21] <Laurenceb> its much better than oil/gas
[01:21] <SpeedEvil> Desertstate is now making a really nice amount of money - and they decide to up the price 10% one wednesday.
[01:22] <SpeedEvil> IMO - nuclear - from a balance of payments POV - with some renewables is the only sane way for the UK to go.
[01:22] <SpeedEvil> We cannot sanely compete in an energy market with china, as our per capita income falls, and chinas rises over the next decades.
[01:23] <Laurenceb> best to look large scale with these things
[01:23] <Laurenceb> we need large international HVDC grids
[01:25] <SpeedEvil> From a technical point of view - perhaps. From a balance of payments point of view - committing yourself to purchasing energy from outside the country as a long term policy is IMO dicey.
[01:25] <Laurenceb> well if the EU continues to expand well be a province of euroland anyway
[01:27] <Laurenceb> and UK becomes irrelivant
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> Which works fine as long as the EU is able to compel the generating country to sell at a reasonable price.
[01:31] <Laurenceb> well it wouldnt be country based
[01:31] <Laurenceb> found an organisation like ESA to run it
[01:33] <SpeedEvil> You could do a _large_ amount by requiring a really heavy stamp duty on non-energy efficient homes. And providing governmental loans at essentially zero interest paid back from the savings in energy to aid in upgrading.
[01:34] <SpeedEvil> meaning the homes that can't meaningfully have cavity wall/... can get a 10 or 20 grand insulation package put in.
[01:34] <Laurenceb> yeah
[01:34] <Laurenceb> theres loans atm but its patchy and doesnt cover everything
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> The UK - as a whole - then pays less in importing gas/...
[01:35] <Laurenceb> we used a regeneration grant as the house had been empty for >10 years
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> And this covers the cost of the loan.
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> And once the loan is paid off - the UK economy has to work less hard - and export less - to pay for its imports.
[01:35] <Laurenceb> depends on the house, lots of victorian houses have no cavity
[01:36] <Laurenceb> make that all
[01:36] <SpeedEvil> I mean to cover the cost of ripping out the plasterboard, insulating behind it, replacing it all.
[01:36] <Laurenceb> yeah
[01:36] <Laurenceb> thats what you have to do if theres no cavity
[01:36] <Laurenceb> expensive
[01:36] <SpeedEvil> Well - or external.
[01:37] <SpeedEvil> Which can also be an option for some properties.
[01:38] <Laurenceb> in russia they just spray building with polyurethane
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> I think I've mentioned before my notion of boosting nuclear by some 20*, and switching _all_ fixed loads onto it.
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> And radiothermocatalytically generated hydrogen for the loads that can't, but can sensibly run on H2.
[01:40] <Laurenceb> solar thermal can do the other loads
[01:40] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[01:40] <SpeedEvil> I'm looking at solar thermal for hot water.
[01:40] <SpeedEvil> An evacuated tube panel - I'm currently wondering if it can be boosted with tracking mirrors.
[01:40] <Laurenceb> no need
[01:40] <Laurenceb> it wroks _very_ well
[01:41] <Laurenceb> theres a demonstration at CAT in wales
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> Not for that - for power gain.
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> So I can get 3KW out of a 1KW panel
[01:41] <Laurenceb> its pretty cheap
[01:41] <Laurenceb> also the panels work in cloudy weather
[01:42] <Laurenceb> mirrors wont help if its cloudy
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah - in winter here there is a fair amount of time that it's sunny - but not very warm.
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> I was also pondering a large thermal store.
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> A ton or two of water.
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> If only eestor would start actually delivering product.
[01:43] <Laurenceb> hahahaha
[01:43] <Laurenceb> its a scam
[01:43] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure.
[01:43] <Laurenceb> I worked through their published data
[01:43] <Laurenceb> they made a basic error
[01:43] <SpeedEvil> ?
[01:43] <Laurenceb> they assumed they could mix barium titanate powder up with a binder
[01:44] <Laurenceb> to increase permittivity
[01:44] <Laurenceb> that doesnt work
[01:44] <Laurenceb> the binder dramatically reduces permittivity
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> Sure. But you then have to believe the independant tests they've had done are bogus.
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> http://theeestory.com/topics/2529
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> an alleged leak.
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> which contains some interesting stuff.
[01:45] <Laurenceb> but have they actually tested a complete capacitor?
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> Including the fact they're claiming to be selling this to EV makers at $100/KWh eventually
[01:46] <SpeedEvil> 'they worked for ZENN Motors and came into our factory after they signed a non-disclosure agreement and they ran the test for the permittivity certification. We're happy to say it passed the test with flying colors. We told the world 18,500 and our test shows 22,500 and greater. '
[01:46] <Laurenceb> hmm if they can make the particles small enough then the physics becomes different
[01:46] <Laurenceb> maybe thats what they are trying to do
[01:47] <Laurenceb> basically nanoparticles
[01:47] Action: Laurenceb hates that term
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> 650nm particles
[01:50] <Laurenceb> The voltage breakdown on the aluminum oxide, certified mind you, in our news release, is 1100 Volts per micron. Now we're at 350 Volts per micron on our working Voltage
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> If eestor, and nanosolar actually can produce product - or some of the other solar cheap vendors - that's game-changing.
[01:51] <Laurenceb> so 10nm alu oxide and 650 of barium titanate
[01:51] <Laurenceb> I just dont thing this works
[01:52] <Laurenceb> In the ferroelectric phase. Barium Titanate, Composition Barium Titanate is a 2 phase material <- yes but the alu oxide kills it
[01:53] <Laurenceb> its effectivly two capacitors in series
[01:53] <Laurenceb> the alu oxide based cap will kill the performance
[01:55] <Laurenceb> "Then when you coat 'em, you've isolated ... you've now sealed in all the goodness" <- and also stopped them from working
[01:55] <SpeedEvil> If you're right - then that conversation myst be entirely fabricated - as tehy've been reporting actual working small caps that meet their targets.
[01:56] <Laurenceb> its all claims by the main eestor guy
[01:57] <Laurenceb> theres lots of scams, if the physics doesnt work, its a scam
[01:57] <SpeedEvil> However - this would have moved into the active scam territory.
[01:57] <Laurenceb> theres lots of theory on how powder based capacitors work
[01:58] <Laurenceb> backed up by lots of data, billions of ceramic caps ect
[01:58] <Laurenceb> their theory is just wrong
[01:59] <Laurenceb> theres high performance ceramic caps with similar design to what they are talking about even
[01:59] <Laurenceb> but they dont get that kind of crazy performance
[02:00] Action: Laurenceb directs speedevil to http://www.steorn.com/orbo/
[02:02] <SpeedEvil> And yes. But there is a difference between overly optimistic claims, and intentional fraud.
[02:03] <SpeedEvil> And if the claims in the above interview are correct - they would have had to have crossed that line. At least by not correcting the public information - as it would be taken as a manipulation of the stock price
[02:03] <SpeedEvil> I mean - not correcting - if it was a fake recording.
[02:04] <Laurenceb> or hes just lying
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> It is a publically quoted company that's issued stock.
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> You can't lie in that manner without it actually being a criminal offence.
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> And attracting actual jailtime in some instances.
[02:05] <Laurenceb> so
[02:06] <Laurenceb> if his claims are demonstrably impossible then hes either lying or an idiot
[02:07] <SpeedEvil> Or you're incorrect. I don't have enough information on the physics to determine which is so.
[02:07] <SpeedEvil> I have real doubts that it will ever come to market though.
[02:07] <Laurenceb> its simple
[02:08] <Laurenceb> if you have to caps in series then 1/Ctotal=1/Cone+1/Ctwo
[02:08] <Laurenceb> its the same case of their particles - if they are sufficiently big
[02:08] <Laurenceb> and for the aluminium to act as an isolating layer it has to be thick enough that it will act as a capacitor
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> That was my analysis too.
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> I don't see an obvious way round it.
[02:10] <Laurenceb> there seems to be a basic flaw in the idea
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> I'm planning on just waiting and seeing if they actually make product - rather than thinking too hard about it though.
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> yes, there does.
[02:12] <Laurenceb> the only other suggestion is that they made up the design to throw people off who may try to replicate it
[02:13] <SpeedEvil> That's also plausible.
[02:13] <Laurenceb> the fact they stress the important of al oxide breakdown voltage shows that it acts as a cap
[02:13] <Laurenceb> or at least is supposed to
[02:16] <Laurenceb> the dielectric is not just al2O3. It is BaTiO3 & PET & Al2O3. very little of it is Al2O3 (there is 64 X more BaTiO3 than Al2O3)
[02:16] <Laurenceb> this sounds just what like some off the shelf caps already use
[02:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQnPWjK5pE <- lol
[02:20] <SpeedEvil> yes - tehre is either a hell of a lot of bullshit and misdirection going on - or it's fake.
[02:22] <Laurenceb> the use of BaTiO3 provides a performance boost of 50% or so
[02:22] <Laurenceb> thats all
[02:25] <SpeedEvil> http://gm-volt.com/2008/01/10/lockheed-martin-signs-agreement-with-eestor/
[02:26] <SpeedEvil> otoh - they employ some people with actual qualifications - not to say they can't have the wool pulled - but...
[02:26] <Laurenceb> didnt they work with JP aerospace?
[02:26] <Laurenceb> - lockheed
[02:26] <Laurenceb> who are crackpots
[02:29] <SpeedEvil> Lyle asks: Do their caps hold 10x the energy at 1/10th the weight of a lead acid battery? Liebman answers: Yes.
[02:30] <SpeedEvil> Which indicates that either the LM person was confused - or defrauded. - if it's not real.
[02:59] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
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[09:40] <edmoore> morning all
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[10:22] <edmoore> morning all
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[10:35] <edmoore> morning SiC
[10:35] <SiC> morning
[10:36] <edmoore> al well?
[10:36] <SiC> yea im fine
[10:36] <SiC> im just a lurker atm 8)
[10:36] <SiC> i really want to get a high altitude balloon project going, but just listening on how you guys do the stuff
[10:46] <edmoore> sorry, phone rang. where are you based?
[10:47] <SiC> bristol
[10:47] <edmoore> ideal from a jetsrteam pov :)
[10:47] <SiC> yea less likely to be deposited over water
[10:48] <edmoore> I'd say just go for it. Nothing harder but more rewarding than commiting to that first step
[10:48] <SiC> i've not long graduated from uni, but they've employed me back
[10:48] <SiC> so im going to try and build a small team up
[10:49] <edmoore> oh cool
[10:49] <SiC> where abouts are you based? are you one of the cambridge ballooners?
[10:49] <edmoore> yep
[10:49] <edmoore> someone with a radio licnse on the team might help, though that said we got by for two and ahal years without any licensed members
[10:49] <edmoore> a half*
[10:50] <SiC> are you still using the 434mhz 10mW modules?
[10:50] <edmoore> yep - they've served us very well and I'm a big fan
[10:51] <SiC> yea
[10:51] <SiC> bit surprised you managed to get such range out of them
[10:51] <SiC> do you have to be fairly precise with the yagi?
[10:52] <edmoore> oh, we just use whips for the most part
[10:52] <edmoore> only use yagis when we get desparate
[10:52] <edmoore> last time i used a yagi I heard it down to 100m above sea level when it come down just south of oxford. I was in cambridge at the time
[10:52] <edmoore> amazing what a difference line of sight makes
[10:52] <SiC> blimey
[10:53] <SiC> does it help to have a good receiver?
[10:53] <SiC> from what i read you use a proper radio scanner?
[10:53] Nick change: kingj -> KingJ
[10:53] <edmoore> it does yes - hence the use of knowing a ham
[10:53] <edmoore> we for ages used the Yaesu FT-790
[10:53] <edmoore> superb radio
[10:54] <edmoore> then I got an incom ic-7000 after getting my license, which is just a joy to use, and the other week we bought a Yaesu FT-817, which is great
[10:54] <edmoore> the yaesu FT-817 seems to be the radio of choice in ukhas now
[10:55] <edmoore> i recommend these over a handheld scanner because scannersare often a bit deaf, and lots of them don't have single side band modes, which is what we use
[10:55] <SiC> are scanners any good? (and need not the requirement for a ham licence)
[10:55] <SiC> ah
[10:55] <edmoore> but if it does have ssb, you may be in luck
[10:58] <SiC> what data rates do you run at?
[10:59] <edmoore> 50 baud usually
[10:59] <edmoore> RTTY
[10:59] <edmoore> it takes about 5-10 seconds to get a complete packet through
[11:00] <edmoore> it looks kinda cool, like a cold-war era film, printing across the screen
[11:00] <SiC> lol
[11:00] <SiC> is there any checksumming involved?
[11:00] <SiC> or just chuck the data across
[11:02] <edmoore> well there is now the option to add a checksum
[11:03] <edmoore> as it obviously stops the noisy data getting onto the online tracking map
[11:03] <edmoore> the online tracking map being run by the distributed listener - everyone has a wee bit of software that grabs the strings for them soundcard modem software and then chucks it up to a server
[11:04] <edmoore> infact a great way to check your ability to track your balloon ahead of time would be to try and listen to someone elss's launch from bristol
[11:09] <SiC> how come you don't get a mass of interference from other users of 434mhz band?
[11:09] <SiC> like car keyfobs,etc
[11:09] <edmoore> there aren't any :)
[11:09] <edmoore> oh, that's just line of sight for you
[11:10] <edmoore> and also our bandwidth is really very small
[11:10] <edmoore> so we get a very strong, concentrated signal
[11:10] <edmoore> but the 434 band is really pretty quiet - never heard anything else on it when ballooning
[11:10] <edmoore> we obviously stay off repeater frequencies and so on
[11:13] <edmoore> to give you an anecdotal data point, when we launched a balloon from cambridge, james coxon picked it up from is second floor flat with a whip antenna in london. Nice and clear
[11:13] <edmoore> that's central london
[11:15] <edmoore> so basically, the radio part is currently not the weak link :) reliability in the electronics chain is the big one, really
[11:15] <SiC> bad reliabilty from the extreme cold?
[11:18] <edmoore> yep, and electro-magnetic interference
[11:18] <edmoore> integrity of connections
[11:18] <edmoore> reliability of battery contacts
[11:19] <edmoore> random software bugs
[11:19] <edmoore> dealing with corssing the meridian line has caught a few people off guard before, for example
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[11:22] <SiC> doesn't having a good grounding plane on the PCB and RF Can's help?
[11:23] <edmoore> very much
[11:23] <edmoore> it's nothing that common sense and good practice can't cover
[11:24] <edmoore> just try and get a good physical and electrical separation between GPS and radio, for example
[11:24] <edmoore> don't sit the gps unit above the microncontroller, as happened on an early nova
[11:24] <SiC> lol
[11:24] <edmoore> it needs to sit above a ground plane - obvious really
[11:24] <SiC> yea
[11:25] <edmoore> so yes, just common sense and you'll not have any problems
[11:25] <SiC> its my intention to make the electronics fairly intergrated
[11:26] <SiC> and like you said, any connectors generally a weak point in any application
[11:27] <edmoore> yes - a couple of people have had issues where some unfortunate thing have happened
[11:27] <edmoore> eg
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[11:27] <edmoore> the antenna connects direct to the flight computer board, though a hole in the payload box
[11:27] <SiC> i should imagine any moisture around any join will freeze, creating a nice insulated path and possibly in some connectors, the expanding water forcing it to disconnect
[11:27] <edmoore> the balloon burst, but some unfortunate schaoes at burst means a line to the parachute wrapped around the anetnna
[11:27] <edmoore> yanked the natneea
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[11:28] <edmoore> this in turn yanked the flight computer pcb
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[11:29] <SiC> oops
[11:29] <edmoore> and pulled the battery connector off
[11:29] <edmoore> then it died
[11:30] <SiC> did they manage to recover it?
[11:30] <edmoore> don't think so
[11:30] <edmoore> oh yes, that one did
[11:32] <SiC> what receiver would you recommened to start with?
[11:33] <edmoore> lassen iQ
[11:33] <edmoore> we use it with no problems
[11:33] <edmoore> the ublox lea-5h is nicer, but harder to integrate
[11:33] <SiC> i mean for the downlink
[11:34] <SiC> is it legal to own a FT-790 to receive but not transmit?
[11:39] <edmoore> oh sorry
[11:39] <edmoore> yes
[11:39] <edmoore> quite legal
[11:39] <edmoore> we did it
[11:39] <edmoore> you can listen to your heart's content
[11:40] <SiC> RF isnt my speciality
[11:40] <SiC> the lecturer was a bit crap, so i never really listened properly, wish i did now :(
[11:48] <edmoore> oh don't worry about academic courses
[11:48] <edmoore> the real world is just rules of thumb
[11:49] <SiC> a bit like the rest of the stuff you get taught? :)
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[12:06] <edmoore> SiC: sorry, there was a fire alarm in the engineering dept just now
[12:06] <edmoore> yes, broadly unhelpful for real world stuff
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[12:16] <edmoore> iain has just put the carbon rocket in the pan/tilt telescope stand, and is moving it around by remote control
[12:16] <edmoore> it looks so badass
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[13:37] <edmoore> afternoonzies
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[14:27] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: this is a sounding rocket - I forget what it was for.
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> s/./?/
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[16:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j-4u8BEuGwbGxQZZsO97xdha66qw
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[16:51] <jcoxon> hey all
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[16:52] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[16:59] <jcoxon> if anyone is around - i'm writing some FAQs for the wiki - any suggestions of commonly asked questions?
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> Where do you get the thongs?
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> ( http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j-4u8BEuGwbGxQZZsO97xdha66qw )
[17:00] <jcoxon> thanks SpeedEvil
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> thoughts
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> what radios do you use / how do you get so far on so little power
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> Why not video
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> batteries
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> expense
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> helium/hydrogen
[17:03] <jcoxon> thanks
[17:03] <jcoxon> though why not video :-p
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> danger to aircraft or people.
[17:04] <jcoxon> got that
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> How do you get it out of trees - ask for suggestions. :)
[17:04] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> 'I have a ham license - can I ...'
[17:05] <jcoxon> yeah, got "Can i use amateur radio on my payload?"
[17:06] <jcoxon> my favourite FAQ i've got is: "Whats the point?"
[17:07] <jcoxon> Answer: http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_half.jpg
[17:07] Action: SpeedEvil stabs 128K net.
[17:07] <jcoxon> oh
[17:07] <jcoxon> sorry
[17:07] <jcoxon> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_quarter.jpg
[17:07] <jcoxon> low res
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I think I've seen it before.
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> Nice.
[17:09] <jcoxon> yeah from last yeah
[17:09] <jcoxon> 360 panoramas
[17:10] <jcoxon> oops too many 'yeah's
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[17:11] <jcoxon> hey ms7821
[17:11] <russss> woah, nice
[17:12] <russss> I guess you don't get too many parallax errors at 30km
[17:13] <jcoxon> russss, yeah, a lot of pictures contributed and the UMSF guys are very skilled at stiching
[17:13] <jcoxon> they cut their teeth on mars rover image stiching
[17:14] <russss> it's easier to do these days. I used to spend a lot of time manually blending panoramas
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[17:15] <jcoxon> russss, http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_fudged_polar_half.jpg
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[17:33] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[17:33] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[17:33] <jcoxon> all going well?
[17:35] <ms7821> hey jcoxon
[17:36] <jcoxon> edmoore, i've updated the new page - just finishing some FAQs
[17:41] <edmoore> jcoxon: struggling to get an order from farnell to here
[17:42] <edmoore> they make it so gard for you to give them money
[17:42] <edmoore> hard*
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[17:42] <jcoxon> that is indeed true
[17:42] <jcoxon> i often go with rapid - find them a lot easier to deal with
[17:44] <edmoore> unfortunately they have about 3% of the parts we need
[17:44] <jcoxon> oh dear
[17:45] <jcoxon> rob is moving house so might be a bit distracted
[17:45] <edmoore> oh right
[17:45] <jcoxon> best email him to tell the truth
[17:47] <edmoore> done
[17:47] <edmoore> I think tonight could be a hacker night devoted to storm hab
[17:48] <jcoxon> ooooo is it progressing
[17:48] <jcoxon> thought it was still in planning
[17:49] <jcoxon> edmoore, http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[17:49] <jcoxon> :-D
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[17:50] <jcoxon> oops obviously drove him away
[17:51] <Laurenceb> you exorcised him
[17:52] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:58] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: I was looking at a very basic "flexseal" type TVC nozzle design
[17:58] <Laurenceb> looks potentially much lighter and simpler
[17:58] <Laurenceb> but I cant work out how to do it with two servos :-/
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> what do you mean by thtat? Some sort of bellows?
[18:02] <Laurenceb> probably just an o ring
[18:03] <Laurenceb> the problem is the entire nozzle moves down by a mm or so dependant on chamber pressure
[18:03] <Laurenceb> as the o ring is compressed
[18:03] <Laurenceb> I need a mechanism to allow two servos to exert a force on it to move it by a few degrees either way
[18:04] <Laurenceb> and also be uneffected by the up down movement
[18:05] <Laurenceb> interestingly this is a problem they have in the new ares 1
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> this is why I was going with with the what seemed least-bad option of thrust vanes
[18:06] <Laurenceb> they have two hydralic actuators to control the first stage nozzle, and seal compression means that nozzle pointing is undefined at ignition
[18:07] <Laurenceb> they try to get the control loops to stabilise as it lifts off, but wind could cause it to hit the launch structure
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> no direct measurment of nozzle poition to close th eloops?
[18:07] <Laurenceb> yeah odd that they didnt do that
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[18:08] <Laurenceb> maybe its more of a case of the response time for the actuators to get it back to zero again
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[18:55] <Laurenceb> http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/rs301cr-302cd-manual.pdf <- nice
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[19:29] <SpikeUK> jcoxon hi!
[19:31] <jcoxon> hey
[19:31] <jcoxon> sp
[19:31] <jcoxon> SpikeUK,
[19:31] <jcoxon> oops
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[19:32] <SpikeUK> jcoxon just been reading your http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning - excellent stuff!
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[19:33] <jcoxon> needs a few more pictures i feel
[19:33] <jcoxon> but i'm quite pleased
[19:35] <SpikeUK> jcoxon pics would be good, but its a good intro for novices
[19:35] <jcoxon> i quite like my 5 pictures summing up ballooning :-p
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[19:36] <jcoxon> payload+parachute+balloon = cool pictures -> nice landinig
[19:36] <SiC> would be quite cool if they linked to hi-res images
[19:36] <jcoxon> oooo thats easy
[19:36] <SiC> so you could see whats inside the chassis
[19:36] <jcoxon> will do that
[19:37] <SpikeUK> true - what about six hours of nerve-racking waiting to see if it ends in the North Sea ;-
[19:37] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:38] <SpikeUK> Could you mark it up to ID the parts? Like in Flickr?
[19:38] <jcoxon> one sec
[19:42] <SpikeUK> SiC hi! Was watching your chat /w edmoore earlier.
[19:42] <SiC> hello!
[19:42] <SiC> yea he said some useful stuff
[19:43] <SpikeUK> ed writes a lot for experience. Did you see his presentation from AMSAT 't other weekend?
[19:43] <SiC> no?
[19:44] <SiC> linky?
[19:44] <jcoxon> okay all the pics are linked
[19:44] <SpikeUK> Two mins SiC I'll try to find it again
[19:46] <jcoxon> and i've added some 'notes' to the payload picture
[19:49] <SpikeUK> SiC - found it! Go to http://www.batc.tv/channel.php?ch=1 and select "2009 Amsat Teddy Bears" from listing on the left
[19:50] <jcoxon> also watch the bootleg postcard one
[19:50] <SiC> cool
[19:50] <SiC> i'll watch after dinner 8)
[19:52] <SpikeUK> jcoxon - I didn't watch that one -
[19:57] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://imagebin.org/58215
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> The o-ring bears all the thrust loads?
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> chamber expansion thrust I mean
[19:58] <Laurenceb> well
[19:59] <Laurenceb> youd try and balance chamber pressure load with nozzle thrust
[19:59] <Laurenceb> but its going to take a lot of load yes
[20:00] <Laurenceb> thats kind of expected
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> the alu lower bulkhead is surrounding the curved base of hte nozzle?
[20:00] <Laurenceb> it compresses by ~1mm or so
[20:00] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> This is still basically similar in geometry to the ball-joint - it's just offloaded by the elasticity of the o-ring?
[20:01] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:01] <Laurenceb> so the o-ring compresses by ~1mm due to pressure loading
[20:01] <Laurenceb> then the servo gives a shift of ~+-0.05mm
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[20:02] <Laurenceb> or more like +-0.1
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[20:05] <Laurenceb> it does rely on low play in the servo bearings
[20:05] <Laurenceb> as you use the threaded bar and threaded holes in the ring
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[20:07] <Laurenceb> but decent servos with ball bearings seem to be very good in that respect
[20:13] <Laurenceb> I think it could weigh <180 grams
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> I'm not following - what are the threaded bars for
[20:14] <Laurenceb> linear actuation
[20:15] <Laurenceb> servo turns, rotates the bar which moves the ring
[20:15] <Laurenceb> left or right on the diagram
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> threaded holes with bars on them may have quite high friction under static load
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> threaded bars in them
[20:15] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:16] <Laurenceb> but its easily within the capability of the servos
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> at least this part is quite easy to test.
[20:17] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:17] <Laurenceb> the nice thing is thats the most complicated mechanics in the entire vehicle :P
[20:19] <Laurenceb> I've just dug out some similar futaba servos (not rs485) but they have ballraced bearings and the shafts are rock solid
[20:19] <Laurenceb> so looks promising
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[20:46] <SpeedEvil> http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=944
[20:48] <Laurenceb> cheap
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[20:51] <jcoxon> hey djellison
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[21:09] <SiC> you really need gyro compensated flux compasses
[21:09] <SiC> as even the slightest amount of tilt buggers the reading up
[21:12] <Laurenceb> sure you use it as part of an IMU
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> SiC: or you have three axes
[21:14] <SiC> yea
[21:15] <Laurenceb> not exactly
[21:15] <Laurenceb> if you know the field strenght you only need two axes anyway
[21:15] <Laurenceb> you need other data to work out attitude
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[21:40] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: looks like about a 30% compression - http://www.engineersedge.com/general_engineering/oring_210__compression_load.htm
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> this is a circular ring?
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> toroidal
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[21:42] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:42] <rjharrison> no
[21:42] <rjharrison> :)
[21:42] <rjharrison> Hi all
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> ih
[21:42] <rjharrison> lol
[21:43] <rjharrison> Hey SpeedEvil I ordered that tubeing b4 vista die;d on me the other day
[21:43] <rjharrison> should be here tomorrow
[21:43] <rjharrison> RocketBoy quick question
[21:44] <rjharrison> Should I make the reference voltage a little hight if i'm getting 255
[21:44] <rjharrison> from the adc
[21:44] <rjharrison> I would rather not hit the max value
[21:45] <rjharrison> jcoxon Hows the CUSF Hisplit merge going
[21:45] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> There is no damage to the ADC if you go over the reference voltage.
[21:45] <jcoxon> yeah its working
[21:46] <Laurenceb> CUSF and hyspit ?!
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> But - you may want it to be in range at all times - so you can readout '250' on the ground - to indicate it's working propelry.
[21:46] <Laurenceb> what are you trying?
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Rather than it simply being pinned at 255
[21:46] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, oh i've merged cusf flight predictor with hysplit
[21:46] <jcoxon> as hysplit only works on single level
[21:46] <Laurenceb> right
[21:47] <jcoxon> cusf landing predictor provides the ascent data
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[21:51] <rjharrison> back
[21:51] <rjharrison> sorry just had some mellon
[21:53] <edmoore> evening all
[21:53] <rjharrison> right I'm having an early night will
[21:53] <rjharrison> Hi edmoore
[21:53] <rjharrison> any news on balloon flights
[21:53] <edmoore> not forthcoming
[21:53] <edmoore> busy as bees we are, but not with launches
[21:53] <rjharrison> It think RocketBoy is up tomorrow
[21:55] <rjharrison> jcoxon, edmoore et al I have just updated the listener with the XABEN call sign
[21:56] <rjharrison> Note no number now
[21:56] <rjharrison> Who is monitiring tomorrow?
[21:56] <jcoxon> not me
[21:56] <rjharrison> edmoore you listening with RocketBoy
[21:57] <rjharrison> BTW where it launch. Does EARS have 7day ability now?
[21:57] <Laurenceb> I may finally have something realy to fly as a secondary payload if anyone is launching soon
[21:58] <Laurenceb> edmoore: rocket?
[21:58] <rjharrison> Laurenceb you can come up on my floater if you like may ne a few weeks
[21:58] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah maybe
[21:58] <rjharrison> you will have to come for the duration though
[21:58] <Laurenceb> thanks
[21:58] <Laurenceb> yeah batteries should last, but I want to get it back
[21:58] <rjharrison> hehe
[21:59] <Laurenceb> I'll have to see what the weather looks like
[21:59] <rjharrison> Floaters not so appealing
[21:59] <Laurenceb> well it may end up that we are sure of getting it back
[21:59] <rjharrison> Will have payload cutdown
[21:59] <Laurenceb> ah nice
[21:59] <Laurenceb> resistor?
[21:59] <rjharrison> I only want to achive float. Not pyro
[21:59] <rjharrison> no
[21:59] <Laurenceb> ok
[22:00] <rjharrison> I don't need to hang out for too long in float unless we need it to come back to land
[22:00] Action: Laurenceb is trying to find a chart of mexican airspace
[22:00] <rjharrison> hehe
[22:01] <rjharrison> right bed beckons
[22:01] <Laurenceb> cya
[22:01] <rjharrison> early one for me
[22:01] <rjharrison> nights all
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[22:03] <edmoore> jcoxon: where did you get your usb/ser cable that you use for the arduino?
[22:03] <jcoxon> which one?
[22:04] <jcoxon> the usb to usb A for a normal arduino or the one that I used for my pcb?
[22:05] <edmoore> the one that you use for your pcb
[22:05] <edmoore> i assume with inline ftdi
[22:05] <jcoxon> ummm the usb/rs232 is from maplin and then the voltage convertor is from sparkfun
[22:06] <jcoxon> its a tx/rx transistor jobby
[22:06] <edmoore> uhuh, ok ty
[22:06] <jcoxon> its not great to tell the truth
[22:06] <jcoxon> i reckon an ftdi one would be better
[22:06] <djellison> Told ya ;)
[22:07] Action: Laurenceb uses one from http://shop.myavr.com/
[22:07] Action: SpeedEvil tries to remember what he was going to do.
[22:07] Action: SpeedEvil goes to sleep.
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> Night all.
[22:07] <Laurenceb> cya
[22:08] <edmoore> oh hi djellison
[22:09] <edmoore> just trying to justify loosing a part
[22:09] <djellison> :)
[22:09] <edmoore> perhaps not worth it
[22:10] <Laurenceb> whats new at CU spaceflight?
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[23:17] Action: Laurenceb drools over the RoBoard specs
[23:18] <SiC> its crap :(
[23:18] <SiC> well for anything that requires decent processing
[23:18] <Laurenceb> how so?
[23:18] <SiC> its basically a 586 running at a1ghz
[23:18] <Laurenceb> yeah, so pretty decent
[23:19] <SiC> we did this robotic submarine competition a couple a months ago
[23:19] <Laurenceb> compared to say a 60Mhz arm7
[23:19] <SiC> trying to use it to do vision stuff, it was awful
[23:19] <Laurenceb> well yeah
[23:19] <Laurenceb> I was wanting it for guiding an n prize rocket
[23:19] <SiC> thats one of its intended applications
[23:19] <SiC> ah
[23:19] <Laurenceb> maybe software GPS as well
[23:19] <Laurenceb> oh I read about that competition
[23:20] <SiC> the vortex86DX has a floating point unit
[23:20] <SiC> you from cambridge?
[23:20] <Laurenceb> what team were you with?
[23:20] <Laurenceb> no
[23:20] <SiC> ah, good cause we beat them :P
[23:20] <SiC> UWE
[23:20] <Laurenceb> yeah FPU is really good for an IMU
[23:20] <SiC> ours was a bit of a shambles really, when i joined, there was only 3 weeks left
[23:20] <SiC> only just got a chassis
[23:20] <Laurenceb> heh
[23:20] <SiC> i pretty much had to single handly code everything
[23:21] <SiC> PID control loop
[23:21] <Laurenceb> what OS?
[23:21] <SiC> etc
[23:21] <SiC> the main control system was on a dsPIC
[23:21] <Laurenceb> yeah I know them well :P
[23:21] <Laurenceb> eeek no
[23:21] <Laurenceb> stupid proprietory math lib FTL
[23:21] <SiC> for depth control and point to point forward montion
[23:21] <SiC> i disagree imo
[23:21] <SiC> they're pretty damn good chips
[23:22] <SiC> just plug the library in and forget
[23:22] <Laurenceb> for math stuff the atmegas are very good
[23:22] <Laurenceb> tho obviously beated by dspic
[23:22] <SiC> the floating point maths is emulated on the dsPICs but is suprisingly quick
[23:22] <Laurenceb> clock cyle wise its only 30% better than atmega
[23:22] <SiC> i can do a floating point PID loop at 20MIPS in around .5ms
[23:23] <SiC> including latency in going into an interrupt
[23:23] <SiC> - with no optimisations
[23:23] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:parafoil_avr
[23:24] <Laurenceb> I built that - page is very poorly updated as I'm lazy
[23:24] <Laurenceb> uses an atmega168
[23:24] <SiC> nice
[23:24] <SiC> i keep meaning to have a go with the atmega's properly
[23:24] <SiC> played with arduino, etc
[23:24] <Laurenceb> theres a kalaman filter and PID loop
[23:24] <SiC> problem is, i have all the debug tools for microchip
[23:25] <Laurenceb> guess what happened with the first flight?
[23:25] <SiC> so the next step would be ARM
[23:25] <SiC> hit the ground? X)
[23:25] <Laurenceb> a knot came lose
[23:25] <Laurenceb> :P
[23:25] <SiC> lol
[23:26] <Laurenceb> it went in a lovely spiral
[23:26] <Laurenceb> at least I know it flies and is controllable now
[23:26] <SiC> lol
[23:26] <Laurenceb> still need to make it actually go somewhere
[23:27] <SiC> one thing i want to do with a HAB is have a glider guide itself
[23:27] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:27] <SiC> will be prototype number 999
[23:27] <Laurenceb> I'm going to modify a standard PID loop
[23:27] <SiC> i want to produce one that can hover at altitude too
[23:27] <SiC> (the balloon)
[23:27] <Laurenceb> add an integrated rate term
[23:27] <SiC> yea
[23:28] <Laurenceb> thing is, if theres some big trim error a standard PID loop may not stop it spiralling
[23:28] <Laurenceb> I have some ARM7 kit, but its a very steep learning curve
[23:29] <Laurenceb> I spent about a week working on it solidly and got to the point of connecting via JTAG and running/stopping code
[23:29] <SiC> yea
[23:29] <SiC> we learnt how to use ARM7's at uni
[23:29] <Laurenceb> but havent got anything of my own compiled and running yet
[23:29] <SiC> ah
[23:30] <Laurenceb> I want to use 100% open source running under ubuntu
[23:30] <SiC> ah ok
[23:30] <SiC> theres your pain ;)
[23:30] <Laurenceb> the documentation is quite hard to find/not beginner level
[23:30] <Laurenceb> I'm sure if I found someone who had done it before I'd have it running in 10 minutes
[23:30] <Laurenceb> so annoying
[23:30] <SiC> we used a Keil IDE, but i've also done work with a IAR IDE
[23:31] <SiC> both pretty straight forward
[23:31] <Laurenceb> yeah I have no money
[23:31] <Laurenceb> and refuse to pay for software anyway
[23:31] <Laurenceb> does Keil run under ubuntu?
[23:31] <SiC> lol
[23:31] <SiC> not sure
[23:31] <SiC> keil stuff is expensive
[23:32] <Laurenceb> guess theres wine
[23:32] <SiC> IAR isnt that expensive
[23:32] <Laurenceb> for ease of use, x86 is so much nicer
[23:32] <Laurenceb> and its easier to get something with an FPU
[23:33] <SiC> yea
[23:33] <SiC> its a bit of a pig to setup
[23:33] <SiC> the guide they give for debian is out of date
[23:33] <SiC> we never got that working properly
[23:33] <Laurenceb> right
[23:33] <SiC> http://www.dmp.com.tw/tech/os-xlinux/
[23:33] <SiC> they dont say about it on the roboard website
[23:33] <SiC> but thats the manufacturers version of linux
[23:33] <Laurenceb> the thing is theres so much more help avaliable for that sort of thing
[23:34] <Laurenceb> ARM is like a secret world
[23:34] <SiC> worked ok, just a pia to change modules about
[23:34] <SiC> lol
[23:34] <SiC> you should try TI DSP's
[23:34] <Laurenceb> good idea
[23:34] <SiC> at least ARM has amateures
[23:34] <SiC> a cheap TI DSP debugger is around £500, a decent one is £1500
[23:34] <Laurenceb> oh ok
[23:34] <SiC> compiler around £3k
[23:34] <SiC> :|
[23:34] <Laurenceb> :p
[23:35] <SiC> plus all big BGA packages
[23:35] <SiC> external ram + flash
[23:35] <SiC> etcetc
[23:35] <SiC> lol
[23:35] <Laurenceb> know anything about the Roboard SPI?
[23:35] <SiC> i worked on them in my placement year
[23:35] <SiC> not used the roboards SPI
[23:35] <SiC> but i have used SPI
[23:35] <Laurenceb> nvm then
[23:36] <SiC> they do provide libraries for it though
[23:36] <Laurenceb> I was somdering about using it for a GPS front end
[23:37] <SiC> yea
[23:37] <Laurenceb> but itd need to use DMA or something
[23:37] <SiC> is the GPS not a uart?
[23:38] <Laurenceb> GPS front end
[23:38] <SiC> ah ok, you doing the GPS
[23:38] <Laurenceb> so its a 1.5GHz direct downconversion receiver
[23:38] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:38] <SiC> a lot of pain for not a lot of gain imo
[23:38] <SiC> unless you want to know how GPS really works
[23:38] <Laurenceb> you need it to work on a rocket
[23:39] <Laurenceb> so it looks like it has to be scratch built
[23:39] <Laurenceb> I've got matlab code working
[23:39] <SiC> oh right
[23:40] <Laurenceb> http://www.roboard.com/Files/Reg/SPI_Control_Registers.pdf
[23:40] <Laurenceb> dont really follow that :-/
[23:40] <SiC> tbh most of the commercial GPS units have it all integrated into a ASIC
[23:40] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:41] <Laurenceb> there appears to be a FIFO mode
[23:41] <Laurenceb> but how big is the FIFO...?
[23:41] <SiC> couldnt say off the top of my head
[23:42] <Laurenceb> SPI Base Address A[31-4]. Size is 16 bytes.
[23:42] <Laurenceb> how does that work?
[23:43] <Laurenceb> you can set the base address?
[23:43] <SiC> im guessing its to address which SPI device you want to talk to
[23:43] <SiC> i'll see if i can find any more info
[23:43] <SiC> thats a bit sparten
[23:43] <Laurenceb> hmm you do that with a select line
[23:44] <Laurenceb> anyway, FIFO buffers for periferals are usually a few bytes right?
[23:44] <Laurenceb> on convensional PC architectures at least
[23:44] <SiC> yea
[23:44] <Laurenceb> I'm going to need a couple of KB :-/
[23:44] <SiC> iirc the SPI interface i thought was integrated on a seperate CPLD on the roboard
[23:45] <SiC> that looks like its for the PCI bus
[23:45] <Laurenceb> oh well I could just stick a sige sampler onto the USB :P
[23:45] <Laurenceb> aha of course
[23:45] <Laurenceb> it all makes sense now
[23:45] <Laurenceb> PCI bus base address
[23:46] <SiC> i'm guessing at this
[23:46] <SiC> but maybe you set a bus base address
[23:46] <SiC> and it clocks in through the DMA
[23:46] <SiC> filling up the RAM
[23:46] <SiC> bus base address being the location in RAM to start
[23:47] <SiC> ?
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Tje FIFO is eniterly on the PCI side I think
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> if I'm reading that right
[23:47] <Laurenceb> in my dreams
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> it DMAs into space
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> into the PCI address space
[23:47] <Laurenceb> oh
[23:47] <Laurenceb> so how much memory is there avaliable?
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> It might even go back to main memory
[23:48] <Laurenceb> hmm
[23:48] <SiC> the main memory is 256mb iirc
[23:48] <Laurenceb> I only need a few KB :P
[23:48] <SiC> SPI is 10Mbps to 150Mbps half-duplex
[23:48] <SiC> according to the datasheet
[23:49] <SiC> probably why it will DMA directly into RAM
[23:49] <Laurenceb> sige is 16Mbps
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> 150?
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> that sounds unlikely
[23:49] <Laurenceb> thats what it ways
[23:49] <Laurenceb> SPI is direct of the "northbridge"
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> Unless htey're doing 4 bit wide for SD, which is somewhat less unlikely
[23:50] <SiC> it runs its OS off a SD card
[23:50] <SiC> IO access to the SD card is slow mind
[23:50] <SiC> real slow
[23:50] <SiC> probably wouldnt be a problem for you, as you could run it all out of the main memory once started
[23:51] <SiC> you could technically actually run matlab off it
[23:51] Action: SpeedEvil lols.
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> hard-realtime - matlab? :)
[23:52] <SiC> you'll be surprised how many people tried doing that on this submarine competition we did :p
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Oh... Dear... :)
[23:52] <SiC> literally using 1.6GHz atoms to do PID loops...
[23:52] <Laurenceb> lol
[23:52] <Laurenceb> SD card is off the SPI?
[23:53] <SiC> SD card would run off SPI
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> I have in the past used awk to do realtime DSP though, so I suppose I shouldn't be too critical.
[23:53] <SiC> i wouldnt have thought it would be shared
[23:53] <Laurenceb> hmm
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> sox|hexdump|awk -> realtime MPG display from soundcard hooked to injector
[23:53] <Laurenceb> the SPI needs to be dedicated to the GPS
[23:53] <Laurenceb> for this to work
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> Are there two SPI ports?
[23:54] <SiC> i should imagine so
[23:54] <SiC> http://www.roboard.com/Files/RB-100/RoBoard_Training_SW_V15.pdf
[23:54] <SiC> page/slide 9 onwards
[23:54] <SiC> not great tho
[23:55] <Laurenceb> stupid graphics heavy stuff
[23:56] <Laurenceb> CPU is at 78C !
[23:56] <Laurenceb> ah finally loaded
[23:57] <SiC> the ADC runs off the SPI bus too
[23:57] <SiC> hence they use the example of the ADC for reading data in
[23:57] <SiC> so probably worth having a worth looking through the libraries and seeing how they use it
[23:57] <SiC> this is what i mean by the RoBoard is a bit wank
[23:57] <SiC> and disapointing
[23:57] <SiC> looks like it should do a lot
[23:57] <SiC> but trying to get it to do it, is a PIA
[23:58] <Laurenceb> hmm they talk about the flash being on the spi as well
[23:58] <Laurenceb> I dont follow
[23:58] <SiC> nor do i
[23:58] <SiC> i think thats something different
[23:58] <Laurenceb> accoriding to the datasheet there is a seperate spi bus for that
[23:58] <SiC> not sure though
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[00:00] --- Tue Aug 4 2009