highaltitude.log.20090731

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[10:46] <rjharrison_> hi jcoxon
[10:46] <jcoxon> hey
[10:47] <rjharrison_> You must be having it easy in the infectious diseases dept. Either that or you're down with one of them
[10:47] <rjharrison_> Just ordered a few caps from farnells to finish off my test circut
[10:48] <jcoxon> hehe,I'm writing a project proposal,not on the wards this week
[10:48] <jcoxon> cool
[10:48] <rjharrison_> Buying that house I showed you a while back today
[10:48] <rjharrison_> Getting a huge playroom in attic 20m by 10m
[10:48] <jcoxon> nice, good choice
[10:48] <rjharrison_> Great for projects and radio etc
[10:49] <jcoxon> I've always wanted an attic "lab/workshop"
[10:49] <rjharrison_> Going to set up tracking yagi on 70cm
[10:50] <rjharrison_> Ideally it processes the gps lat,lon,alt to point yagi in the correct direction
[10:50] <rjharrison_> Probbaly mount it in the vertical plane
[10:56] <rjharrison_> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/yaesu-g5500-azimuth-elevation-rotator-p-2253.html?osCsid=ee07c13f6fe96a7dc6dd4f74d8de7915
[11:09] <RocketBoy> bbl
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[11:23] <jcoxon> I think ed had some plans for one
[11:23] <jcoxon> using cnc motors
[11:26] <jcoxon> rjharrison, managed to fuse cusf landing predict with hysplit
[11:38] <rjharrison_> jcoxon cool
[11:38] <rjharrison_> Is it on a web site?
[11:38] <rjharrison_> or is it a manual operation at the moment
[11:40] <jcoxon> its a shell script that runs both and outputs a kml
[11:40] <jcoxon> I could make an interface I guess
[11:41] <rjharrison_> That would be cool
[11:41] <rjharrison_> You can host it on my server if you wish
[11:41] <jcoxon> just need a few inputs: lat lon float alto, float time
[11:44] <jcoxon> needs a bit more work
[11:44] <jcoxon> was thinking, could add in 'events'
[11:45] <jcoxon> so you could say, drop ballast after 3hrs
[11:45] <jcoxon> then it would run, cusf to work out ascent, then re-run hysplit at new apt
[11:45] <jcoxon> alt *
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[12:12] <rjharrison_> hehe cool
[12:12] <rjharrison_> I like it
[12:13] <jcoxon> bbl
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[12:17] <rjharrison_> http://web.me.com/dbowen1/Spirit_of_Knoxville_Published_Information/SNOX_DOCS_Blog/Entries/2009/4/27_SNOX_IV_Telemetry.html
[12:17] <rjharrison_> From jcoxon
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[15:06] <jcoxon> afternoon all
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[15:24] <SpeedEvil> http://www.theonion.com/content/news/apple_claims_new_iphone_only :)
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[15:27] <angelomio001> Saaaaaalve!!!!
[15:27] <angelomio001> .:Ciao:. a tutti
[15:27] <angelomio001> !list
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[16:02] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[16:02] <jcoxon> is fergus around?
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[16:04] <edmoore> not atm
[16:05] <jcoxon> okay, no worries
[16:22] <edmoore> any news?
[16:23] <jcoxon> well i've now fused cusf predictor with hysplit
[16:23] <jcoxon> well sort of :-p
[16:23] <jcoxon> and i rediscovered this : http://web.me.com/dbowen1/Spirit_of_Knoxville_Published_Information/SNOX_DOCS_Blog/Entries/2009/4/27_SNOX_IV_Telemetry.html
[16:23] <edmoore> how does it fuse?
[16:23] <jcoxon> cusf runs first calculate ascent
[16:24] <edmoore> ic
[16:24] <jcoxon> then hysplit runs using lat and lon from cusf's max alt as a start point
[16:24] <jcoxon> so we get up and then float
[16:24] <jcoxon> (i know that cusf does float as well, but hysplit is a bit more detailed)
[16:25] <jcoxon> just making it so that the kmls are merged
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[17:11] <jcoxon> woohoo, got it working
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[20:00] <rjharrison> .
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[21:05] <rjharrison> ouch
[21:05] <rjharrison> 5v reg shorted is hot
[21:08] <KingJ> I had that before with a faulty FET, left a nice mark on my finger for a while
[21:14] <Hiena> Ehem...
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[21:18] <Hiena> Had a nice russian regulator which had embossed markings. It was free at my school, but had no datasheet. Little bit later was so easy to spot the other "thinkerers" at the class, just looking for the cyril burnmarks.
[21:20] <rjharrison> Thankfully no embosing on here
[21:21] <rjharrison> My finger is still bleating
[21:21] <Hiena> Anyhow it was kind of beast. It could push 15Amps at 5V with 7V drop without any problem. At 20 Amps usually the wires melted off from the lead-out, yet the regulator was unharmed...
[21:30] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil You still around
[21:30] <rjharrison> RocketBoy too
[21:31] <rjharrison> Ok I have the pressure guage thing working nicely
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: yes
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:31] <rjharrison> Now density = mass/vol
[21:31] Action: SpeedEvil avoids the obvious track.
[21:32] <rjharrison> Is there a relation here between pressure and volume?
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> np: The Specials - Pressure Drop
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> in the abloon?
[21:32] <rjharrison> Yep
[21:32] <rjharrison> Less vol = > pressure
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> yes - it's defined by the latex behaviour
[21:32] <rjharrison> Ohh I like latex behaviour
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> I am fairly convinced by your measurements that it should be starting off high, and dropping, then rising again with alt.
[21:33] <rjharrison> but the external pressure will be dropping too
[21:33] <rjharrison> and the measurment is relative to the outside and not the ground
[21:33] <rjharrison> You obv know this
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah - ignoring the external pressure - considering only the differential
[21:34] <rjharrison> So I'm thinking that as the outside pressure drops the balloon pressure will rise?
[21:34] <rjharrison> Relative to outside
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> I'd expect it to initiall fall
[21:35] <rjharrison> It looks great on the ocilloscope
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> From - say - 20mB at launch to 0.5mB at 10Km and then up to 2mB before burst
[21:35] <rjharrison> Ok well we'll launch the bugger to see soon
[21:36] <rjharrison> I'm thinking of trying absolute pressure too
[21:36] <rjharrison> But I can only go down to 20kps with a 5v sensor
[21:36] <rjharrison> With 10v to abs 0
[21:37] <rjharrison> What is the best type of tubing to use?
[21:37] <rjharrison> Latex?
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> There is the hard limit on the fact that the slope of the rising curve at diam = whateveritwasonthefloater has to be under the slope of the density dropping due to the altitude.
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> I'd say mostly any
[21:38] <rjharrison> Plastic
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> So that teh bouyancy has an inflection and doesn't carry on rising with temperature.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Got some aquarium tube?
[21:39] <rjharrison> Ok you guys are going to have to wrok this shit out
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> that's plasticised PVC
[21:39] <rjharrison> I'll get the data :)
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> So that teh bouyancy has an inflection and doesn't carry on rising with altitude
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> there is also silicone aquarium tubing which is more expensive and will probably stay flexy at -50C
[21:40] <rjharrison> Yep I'll look into silicon tuing
[21:40] <rjharrison> tubing
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10FT-Silicone-Airline-Tube-air-Sucker-pump-aquarium_W0QQitemZ250474933654QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Fish?hash=item3a51782d96&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4mm-silicone-airline-aquarium-3-metres-for-99p_W0QQitemZ320406560524QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Fish?hash=item4a99b81f0c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> or in the UK
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> That looks too clear
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Silicone-Airline-5-Meters-For-Aquarium-Pond-Air-Pumps_W0QQitemZ310088369200QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Fish?hash=item4832b50430&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 is more like it
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[21:57] <rjharrison> vista is shit
[21:57] <rjharrison> Just incase you needed reminding
[21:57] <rjharrison> Just crashed on me
[21:58] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil thanks
[21:58] <rjharrison> Orderes
[21:58] <rjharrison> d
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> ordered?
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[22:25] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:29] <RocketBoy> does anyone know if there is a wiki equivelent to the HTML intra page link (the #tag thing)?
[22:30] <RocketBoy> cant find a reference to one
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[22:31] <jcoxon> ummm i think there is
[22:31] <jcoxon> one sec
[22:31] <rjharrison> Boo
[22:33] <rjharrison> [[#link_name]]
[22:34] <jcoxon> e.g. [[projects:pegasus:pegasus_i#secondtitle|Pegasus I]]
[22:35] <RocketBoy> ah ok ta - I'll try that
[22:35] <rjharrison> Guys I got the diff pressure sensor working greate
[22:35] <rjharrison> RocketBoy: Thanks for the circuit
[22:35] <RocketBoy> and do you insert #secondtitle somewhere in the wiki
[22:36] <rjharrison> Did it all in smd components
[22:36] <RocketBoy> circuit works ok?
[22:36] <rjharrison> I think that the last cap should have been 470pf
[22:36] <rjharrison> Other than that perfect
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[22:37] <rjharrison> Had it linked to the oscilloscope and blew into pipe
[22:37] <RocketBoy> sort of don't agree
[22:37] <rjharrison> Will connect to adc tomorrow
[22:37] <rjharrison> Just off the datasheet
[22:38] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, the #secondtitle would be one of the headings on a page
[22:38] <rjharrison> Unless I'm missing something
[22:39] <rjharrison> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/9718.pdf
[22:39] <RocketBoy> yeah - but like I said the datasheet assumes the load is a high impedance input - wheras in the circuit I provided the output is coupled to the potentia; divider
[22:39] <rjharrison> ahh
[22:39] <RocketBoy> yeah saw the datasheet last night
[22:39] <rjharrison> Ok so I should change the cap to 10nf
[22:39] <rjharrison> NP
[22:39] <rjharrison> I don't really understand caps
[22:40] <rjharrison> Other than they smooth
[22:40] <rjharrison> Not how to calc the correct value
[22:40] <rjharrison> Ok I'll amend
[22:40] <RocketBoy> yeah - thats what they are doing here
[22:41] <rjharrison> How did you know to use 10nf rather than 470pf
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[22:42] <RocketBoy> its calacuated two ways
[22:43] <RocketBoy> 1) it sets a 3db roll off point at about 500Hz - using fc = 1/(2 * Pi * R * C)
[22:43] <RocketBoy> where R is 18K
[22:44] <RocketBoy> actually 22nF is actually closest to 500Hz
[22:45] <jcoxon> hmmm php seems to be broken on my mac
[22:45] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:45] <jcoxon> :-(
[22:47] <RocketBoy> 2) there was a similar circuit in the application note which was 750ohm and 0.33uF (330nF) http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/app_note/AN1646.pdf
[22:49] <jcoxon> oops i broke apache when i fixed curl for dl-fldigi
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[22:51] <RocketBoy> 750ohm * 0.33uF very rouhly = 18K * 10nF (0.01uF)
[22:52] <RocketBoy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-pass_filter
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[23:00] <jcoxon> night
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[23:34] <RocketBoy> night
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[00:00] --- Sat Aug 1 2009