highaltitude.log.20090729

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[00:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: hi
[00:22] <Laurenceb> ello
[00:23] <Laurenceb> trying to work out how to fit ants onto the rocket
[00:23] <Laurenceb> the radio kind :P
[00:24] <Laurenceb> I was thinking three antenni around the CF launch tube
[00:24] <Laurenceb> with a power divider
[00:24] <Laurenceb> use ceramic chip antenna for the 868MHz data link
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> Sounds plausible
[00:27] <Laurenceb> I'm sure theres something clever you could build with copper foil
[00:27] <Laurenceb> but I just cant get it
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> ehat?
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> what?
[00:28] <Laurenceb> but 5Kg GLOW looks very plausible
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> I've got a barrel of copper foil tape.
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> I need to put them on ebay.
[00:28] <Laurenceb> copper foil around the fairing
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> Along with my barrel of steppers.
[00:29] <Laurenceb> theres a fairing around the launch tube
[00:29] <Laurenceb> of about 10mm thick balsa probably
[00:29] <Laurenceb> cover that with some sort of copper foil antenna
[00:30] <Laurenceb> patch antenni would almost work
[00:30] <Laurenceb> but too big at 868mhz
[00:30] <Laurenceb> launch tube is ~50mm diameter
[00:32] <Laurenceb> it looks like you could reduce the GLOW
[00:32] <Laurenceb> especially if you only want 10grams to orbit - 2Kg GLOW may be possible, or just two stages
[00:33] <Laurenceb> stupidly small rocket :P
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> If you use your previous 2Kg to orbit design, and fit this one on top, can you get to mars?
[00:36] <Laurenceb> heh certainly
[00:36] <Laurenceb> no GPS on mars :-/
[00:37] <Laurenceb> bbl
[00:49] <natrium42> hmm, how long would a tethered latex balloon stay up?
[00:49] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> I imagine only a few days max before UV ate it
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[07:56] <mc_-> mornin
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[12:45] <SpeedEvil> http://digitalurban.blogspot.com/2009/07/building-rome-in-day-3d-city-via-flickr.html
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:01] <sbasuita> very cool
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[13:48] <jcoxon> hey all
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[14:43] <edmoore_> hi jcoxon
[14:44] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[14:44] <jcoxon> so what happened to the cheese
[14:45] <russss> lol
[14:48] <jcoxon> news articles are unsuprisingly useless
[15:00] <jcoxon> edmoore_, :-)
[15:00] <edmoore_> jcoxon: sorry, on webchat which doesn't ping
[15:00] <edmoore_> they're looking for it
[15:00] <edmoore_> just got another call from BBC cambridgeshire woman wondering if it'd been found (I had no idea)
[15:01] <jcoxon> what was their gps tracker that failed?
[15:01] <edmoore_> I'm still not really sure, this chap dom has been a bit vague
[15:02] <edmoore_> I'll give him a bell later
[15:02] <edmoore_> i think it's some kind of gprs arrangement
[15:03] <jcoxon> fair enough though a bit weird that they are suprised about losing tracking
[15:03] <jcoxon> couldn't see an antenna so probe not radio
[15:05] <DanielRichman> if it's gprs no wonder they lost it?
[15:06] <DanielRichman> doesn't work that high up
[15:06] <jcoxon> indeed but it should start up again on landing
[15:07] <jcoxon> fingers crossed
[15:12] <edmoore_> it's well and truly landed though
[15:12] <edmoore_> we'll have to see
[15:12] <jcoxon> it'll get found, eventually
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[16:32] <edmoore_> cheese found
[16:34] <natrium42> \o/
[16:36] <jontyw> hurrah!
[16:36] <russss> how did they locate it?
[16:39] <natrium42> using specially trained rats
[16:39] <edmoore_> got handed into a local police station
[16:40] <natrium42> O_O
[16:40] <edmoore_> university picked up on it - http://www.cam.ac.uk/
[16:41] <edmoore_> the bastards edited out my mega-pun
[16:41] <edmoore_> ('It will be up to local explorers to find this particular bit of Milky Whey')
[16:42] <natrium42> lol
[16:42] <russss> hahah
[16:42] <natrium42> a little bit cheesy, but i like it
[16:42] <russss> love it
[16:44] <russss> do you know how far it was from your predicted location?
[16:47] <natrium42> and was it still in pristine condition?
[16:48] <edmoore_> about 3 miles from my first guess, about 8 miles from the groups guess when they reconned my estimate of the parachute drag co-efficient was too low. Guess who is being smug now!
[16:48] <edmoore_> it was just about intact I think, but apparently the camera didn't work
[16:48] <edmoore_> which is a shame
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> edmoore_: the whey pun is in the topic
[16:48] <edmoore_> not me - the sacrificed 'whey' for a lesser pun
[16:48] <edmoore_> I think :p
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:53] <edmoore_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cambridgeshire/content/articles/2009/07/28/cheese_space_cambs_feature.shtml
[16:59] <natrium42> edmoore_, so what happened to the electronics?
[16:59] <edmoore_> i'm not sure - sounds like a complete fail
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[17:03] <edmoore_> hi abraxor_
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[17:48] <natrium42> no love for you, edmoore_
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[17:53] <edmoore_> natrium42: i know, it's tough
[17:53] <edmoore_> rjharrison: cheese is found
[17:59] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, that SD card code you were asking about - i'm 90% sure it works. need to do some final testing before I pronounce it worthy of flying, but I'd say that it was very much "Beta" going on "Alpha"
[18:00] <natrium42> DanielRichman, how come you are not using fat?
[18:00] <DanielRichman> fat? piece of sh*t
[18:00] <DanielRichman> and cba to implement fat
[18:00] <DanielRichman> easier just to write raw to the cad
[18:00] <DanielRichman> *card
[18:00] <natrium42> http://elm-chan.org/fsw/ff/00index_e.html
[18:00] <natrium42> fatfs is very easy to use
[18:01] Action: natrium42 used it with a 8GB microSD
[18:02] <DanielRichman> It's blocking
[18:02] <DanielRichman> that's my only problem
[18:02] <DanielRichman> my code is interrupt based - so after each char it can go to sleep, talk to the gps etc.
[18:03] <natrium42> so?
[18:04] <DanielRichman> so...?
[18:04] <DanielRichman> besides, why use fat when you don't need to?
[18:05] <natrium42> guess so
[18:06] <natrium42> well, i am not sure that it has to be blocking
[18:06] <natrium42> as long as you use dedicated SPI lines for SD
[18:06] <DanielRichman> hmm... I reckon I *could* do it
[18:06] <DanielRichman> could run the fat code in main(), and just have it wait for the interrupt to run, that way other interrupts could run too while it waits, but still
[18:07] <DanielRichman> no need right now
[18:07] <DanielRichman> can just use gnu strings to get the stuff off the card
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[20:16] <rjharrison_> Hey all the cheese has been found
[20:16] <rjharrison_> In a back garden in High Wycombe
[20:17] <SpikeUK> rjharrison so it seems! Cheesy quotes from edmoore http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2009072902
[20:19] <rjharrison_> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/8175347.stm
[20:20] <rjharrison_> Very cheesy
[20:20] <rjharrison_> abdominal pain
[20:20] <rjharrison_> opps
[20:21] <rjharrison_> This is not google :)
[20:23] <SpikeUK> or NHS Direct either ;-)
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[20:32] <rjharrison_> exit
[20:32] <rjharrison_> \quit
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[20:45] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:45] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:46] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!n=jcoxon@host86-168-6-234.range86-168.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[20:47] <SpikeUK> jcoxon - nothing to say about cheese?
[20:47] <jcoxon> hehe not really
[20:47] <jcoxon> lactose intolerant :-p
[20:47] <SpikeUK> LOL!
[20:48] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, i'm sorry - i haven't updated that wiki page
[20:48] <jcoxon> will do, soon...
[20:50] <SpikeUK> That's fine thanks jcoxon. I appreciate you sharing your experience
[20:51] <SpikeUK> Do you have any experience with lithium polymer batteries?
[20:52] <jcoxon> yes and no
[20:52] <jcoxon> not at high alt - we stick to lithium energizers
[20:52] <jcoxon> that said i've used lipos especially with the gm862 gsm module
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> I've raised concerns about the lack of case rigidity and possible performance at ~0 external pressure.
[20:53] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, i flew one iwth Pegasus VI
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> I don't think it's likely for them to bulge enough to damage the case.
[20:53] <jcoxon> and its still intact
[20:53] <jcoxon> and not bulged
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> But I'd want to do some tests with various drains/temps before I was at all sure
[20:54] <jcoxon> for high alt its best to stick to the tried and tested lithium energizers
[20:55] <SpikeUK> I know energizers are the bunnies for low temp/pressure but any views about the theory that they can be damaged by draining voltage too low
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> They are primary cells
[20:55] <SpikeUK> Li-pos that is
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> it's not a theory
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> it's fact
[20:56] <SpikeUK> Thanks! But are some makes more tolerant than others?
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> No, you need to low voltage protect all Li-po, Li-ion, and LiFePO4
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> however - some cells are available with protection units that do this for you
[20:58] <jcoxon> oooo new gm864 + breakout board
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[20:59] <SpikeUK> SpeedEvil thanks! I'm in discussion with Liquidware about their Arduino http://www.liquidware.com/shop/show/BP/Lithium+BackPack
[20:59] <jcoxon> got and ADC and DAC
[20:59] <jcoxon> could make a very nice payload with one of these
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[22:50] <rjmunro> Does anyone know anything about the recent high altitude cheese projrct?
[22:50] <rjmunro> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8171619.stm
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> not really - we're not involved.
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cam.ac.uk/
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[23:05] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, btw - contrary to what I said earlier - my sd card code doesn't work (behaving strangely). Too tired to fix it tonight so will do so tomorrow.
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[23:20] <RocketBoy> I'm just trying to make a vaccume container to do some low pressure testing - I'm thinking of using clear Acrylic tube - about 125mm OD 3mm wall - I worked out the crush pressure is about 9Bar or better for Acrylic with UTS 19MPa - does that sound right?
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[23:23] <SpeedEvil> You in some ways want to worry more about what happens if your assumptions break down
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> For example - yes - it can do 19MPA crush - but if it goes out of round, things go bad fast.
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> I personally would go with a nice bit of very thick plastic tube - I happen to have some 6" gas pipe, that's about a 2cm wall - or lots of bracing.
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> With a webcam for viewing
[23:27] <RocketBoy> i have some 6" aluminium tube that i use at the mo (with a viewing window in the end plate) - but I was looking for somthing easier to view through
[23:28] <RocketBoy> I'd make some end plates that would hold the ends of the tube circular - so I guess going out of round would be use to wall thickness variations
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> how long were you thinking of?
[23:29] <RocketBoy> about a foot
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> I'd want at least one internal stiffener ring.
[23:31] <RocketBoy> that would be easy enough to turn up and gle into position with silicone rubber or similar
[23:31] <RocketBoy> glue
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> What's your pimp?
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> pump
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> I have an old edwards that I need to try and get working.
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> something stupid like 0.5 micron spec
[23:49] <RocketBoy> its a refigeration pump - got it from a local reclamation place - not sure what it will pull - thats part of the testing
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> What do you have for a guage?
[23:50] <RocketBoy> a rocketry altimiter - its got a serial outpput with KPa reading
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> oh - right.
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[23:51] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I was still thinking hard vacuum
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> where fingerprints are a problem
[23:53] <RocketBoy> I want to be able to get down to 1KPa or a bit less
[23:54] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/29/space_cheese/
[23:54] <Laurenceb> seriously guys
[23:54] <Laurenceb> who was responsible for this stupidity?
[23:55] <jcoxon> some cheese makers
[23:55] Action: Laurenceb looks at edmoore
[23:56] <RocketBoy> twas a good publicity stunt methinks
[23:57] <RocketBoy> nights
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[00:00] --- Thu Jul 30 2009