highaltitude.log.20090719

[00:00] <Daviey> btw chaps.. if you need a VPS rather than a server with just http access, i'd gladly sponser one..
[00:01] <rharrison|2e0rjh> humm James send the signal to turn the gps back on
[00:01] <ed|M0TEK> 15 minutes without lock
[00:01] <rharrison|2e0rjh> :0
[00:01] <natrium42> ed|M0TEK: hehe, well it was kinda annoying how it showed up before
[00:01] <natrium42> with the many labels
[00:01] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Whe dry soldered the Tx yesterday
[00:01] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Who
[00:02] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Foxing this one is going to be a bastard
[00:02] <jcoxon> fergus
[00:02] <jcoxon> the joint was good
[00:02] <rharrison|2e0rjh> lol
[00:02] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I'm only kidding
[00:04] <Daviey> This payload doesn't have SMS, does it?
[00:04] <ed|M0TEK> nope
[00:04] <ed|M0TEK> 20 minutes without gps
[00:07] <rharrison|2e0rjh> humm
[00:07] <RocketBoy> need VOR as a backup - I don't think it would be that hard to make
[00:07] <ed|M0TEK> ?
[00:07] <rharrison|2e0rjh> VOR
[00:08] <ed|M0TEK> oh i see
[00:08] <ed|M0TEK> awesome
[00:08] <ed|M0TEK> yes
[00:09] <rharrison|2e0rjh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHF_omnidirectional_range
[00:13] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I think it's the cold as it has reduced alot in temp over the last 20 mins
[00:14] <jcoxon> i reckon its that too
[00:14] <fnoble|M0NBL> yey
[00:14] <fnoble|M0NBL> lock
[00:14] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Yeay
[00:14] <fnoble|M0NBL> but its a dodgy one
[00:14] <fnoble|M0NBL> $$ATLAS1505l231:35,0.000,272.395,0.000,0.1;1;1
[00:14] <Daviey> \o/
[00:14] <Daviey> next one will be good :)
[00:15] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I have lost contact in the last 3 mins
[00:15] <rharrison|2e0rjh> feed me the data
[00:16] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> :( rather
[00:17] <jcoxon> thats all guys
[00:17] <jcoxon> $$ATLAS,1505,2:31:35,0.000,272.395,0.000,0.1;1;1
[00:17] <jcoxon> thats a clear capture
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[00:18] <jcoxon> 272. 395 looks a little like hte previous alt?
[00:18] <fnoble|M0NBL> hi rob
[00:18] <m0vfc> morning all
[00:18] <fnoble|M0NBL> m0vfc: it floated! but we lost gps lock on the balloon about 30mins ago
[00:18] <m0vfc> how's things looking - I see the tracker puts the balloon somewhere above norway at the moment :-)
[00:18] <m0vfc> fantastic stuff on the float!
[00:19] <m0vfc> still audible at your end?
[00:19] <fnoble|M0NBL> the radio is going strong yeah
[00:19] <ed|M0TEK> super loud
[00:19] <ed|M0TEK> it just doesn't know where it is
[00:19] <fnoble|M0NBL> unfortunately its not telling us much :(
[00:19] <ed|M0TEK> somewhere towards tge midlands
[00:19] <m0vfc> any idea of bearing from you?
[00:19] <fnoble|M0NBL> m0vfc: we could take one if needed
[00:20] <ed|M0TEK> probably north-west
[00:20] <ed|M0TEK> north-north-west
[00:20] <fnoble|M0NBL> we could have a fair guess as to where it is from the predictions though
[00:20] <Daviey> m0vfc: the last good gps reading was http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=52.789,0.2&ie=UTF8&ll=52.955257,-0.22522&spn=1.714262,5.817261&z=8
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> and it was moving northwestish
[00:21] <fnoble|M0NBL> SpeedEvil: mainly westerly now i imagine
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[00:21] <fnoble|M0NBL> m0vfc: are you going to try to pick it up?
[00:22] <m0vfc> nothing heard in Chepstow yet
[00:22] <fnoble|M0NBL> ok, are you just on a whip?
[00:22] <m0vfc> what freq are you listening on?
[00:22] <fnoble|M0NBL> we are tuned in at 434.067.35 atm
[00:22] <m0vfc> car antenna
[00:22] <fnoble|M0NBL> so it has drifted waaay down
[00:23] <m0vfc> so no huge gain this end I'm afraid
[00:24] <m0vfc> there might be the tiniest hint of a morse beacon, but that could well be my ears rather than genuine
[00:24] <fnoble|M0NBL> yeah ok
[00:24] <ed|M0TEK> the morse has gone awol
[00:25] <m0vfc> OK, I'm going to head off to bed for the moment, but will probably be up fairly early and will check again then if that's OK?
[00:25] <jcoxon> m0vfc, yes please
[00:25] <ed|M0TEK> it was last seen with its pants over its head swigging from a bottle of whisky and singing god save the queen down somewhere near 434.047
[00:25] <m0vfc> (~7am)
[00:25] <fnoble|M0NBL> yeah that would be great
[00:25] <m0vfc> ed - :-)
[00:25] <fnoble|M0NBL> it should be a lot closer to you by then
[00:26] <m0vfc> ok, night for now then - best of luck on the overnight watch!
[00:26] <jcoxon> float for 2hrs 4mins
[00:26] <ed|M0TEK> thanks
[00:26] <ed|M0TEK> i probably won't make it
[00:26] <fnoble|M0NBL> thanks, gdnight
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[00:28] <rharrison|2e0rjh> load and clear her in yorkshire
[00:28] <rharrison|2e0rjh> loud
[00:29] <RocketBoy> night all
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[00:35] <ed|M0TEK> have a look at the kml in google earth
[00:35] <ed|M0TEK> it was rock solid on float altitude
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> google earth sucks
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> why can't I just type in a new altitude
[00:38] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Just need the MOD to track it for a bit :)
[00:38] <jcoxon> well its still floating
[00:39] <jcoxon> definitely hasn't burst
[00:39] <rharrison|2e0rjh> no warble
[00:39] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I'll take my phone ot bed
[00:39] <jcoxon> rharrison|2e0rjh, if its up in the morning would be good to start taking some bearings
[00:39] <jcoxon> you should be well placed
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[00:41] <jcoxon> hey djellison
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[00:42] <djellison> Hi :)
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[00:45] <natrium42> g'nite & good luck
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[00:49] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Will
[00:49] <rharrison|2e0rjh> do
[00:49] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I'm off to bed in a bit
[00:49] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I updated the graph for to additional points
[00:49] <rharrison|2e0rjh> You're floating well
[00:49] <ed|M0TEK> current thinking hear is that a bit of sunlight might help it out
[00:49] <jcoxon> thats rharrison|2e0rjh for all the help
[00:49] <jcoxon> fixed the spacenear.us map as well
[00:49] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Will take a bearing later
[00:49] <ed|M0TEK> here*
[00:50] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Cool
[00:50] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I'll have a look
[00:50] Action: SpeedEvil faces north and bends over.
[00:50] <fnoble|M0NBL> worked out if we keep this descent rate we will lose about 520m before sunrise
[00:50] <fnoble|M0NBL> so should be ok
[00:51] <rharrison|2e0rjh> please txt me somebody if we get lock back 07740947814
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> when is sunrise at that alt - 4A<?
[00:51] <jcoxon> yup
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> M
[00:51] <rharrison|2e0rjh> nights
[00:51] rharrison|2e0rjh (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc:
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> night
[00:51] <fnoble|M0NBL> SpeedEvil: not bothered to account for height
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[00:51] <fnoble|M0NBL> the descent rate is so slow, 30mins wont make much difference
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> true
[00:52] <fnoble|M0NBL> sunrise on the ground at about 5am
[00:59] <Daviey> fnoble|M0NBL: Yeah, but what time at 27K m? :)
[01:02] <fnoble|M0NBL> i think about 30mins earlier
[01:02] <fnoble|M0NBL> cba to work it out :(
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[01:06] <jcoxon> dum dee dum dum
[01:11] <ed|M0TEK> i'll be back 6am-7am
[01:11] <ed|M0TEK> ttfn
[01:19] <jcoxon> sleep time
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[01:40] <jcoxon> can't sleep
[01:43] <SpeedEvil> clowns will eat you?
[01:54] <jcoxon> hehe
[01:54] <jcoxon> still getting telemetry
[02:26] <SpeedEvil> Just no GPS?
[02:26] <jcoxon> nope
[02:27] <jcoxon> just the last know position
[02:27] <jcoxon> but a very clear signal
[02:27] <jcoxon> also drift appears to have stopped
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> the batteries should be good for a while?
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> At least there typically tends to be a very rapid drift as it gets close to the ground - which will help
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> if it bursts of course
[02:28] <jcoxon> it ain't going to burst for quite a while
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> nope.
[02:28] <jcoxon> next point will be sunrise pretty much
[02:28] <jcoxon> then hopefully a bit of warming will restart the gps
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that was what I meant
[02:28] <jcoxon> its rather cool though, the whole thing
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> -55C
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> :)
[02:28] <jcoxon> the fact that we got it to float
[02:29] <jcoxon> shame no temp sensor - next time
[02:29] <SpeedEvil> Especially given the last one completely screwed it up.
[02:29] <SpeedEvil> with almost the same hardware
[02:29] <SpeedEvil> exactly?
[02:29] <jcoxon> oh yes
[02:29] <jcoxon> completely
[02:29] <jcoxon> no change
[02:29] <SpeedEvil> Well - balloon :)
[02:29] <jcoxon> hehe
[02:29] <SpeedEvil> shows how important little variations can be
[02:30] <jcoxon> yes
[02:30] <SpeedEvil> the inital speed of the other one was what - double this?
[02:30] <jcoxon> yes
[02:30] <jcoxon> 5m/s
[02:37] <SpeedEvil> The data is still coming through - and the morse? The last packet seemed to have alt in place of lon - the newer ones are just blank?
[02:39] <ed|M0TEK> $$ATLAS/No GPS Data/2:31:35/0.000/272.395/0.000
[02:39] <jcoxon> the morese has gone walkies
[02:39] <jcoxon> and its only a beacon - no actual data comes over the morse
[02:44] <jcoxon> 4hrs of float
[03:09] <jcoxon> getting colder
[03:09] <jcoxon> now at 434.064.24
[04:04] <jcoxon> hellooooooo
[04:04] <jcoxon> anyone around
[04:16] <jcoxon> sun is beginning to come up
[05:09] <jcoxon> ITS BACK
[05:19] <rharrison|2e0rjh> boo
[05:19] <jcoxon> hey
[05:19] <jcoxon> sorry to get you up
[05:19] Nick change: ed|M0TEK -> fnoble
[05:19] <jcoxon> its coming down quick
[05:20] <jcoxon> and we are worried we'll lose it
[05:20] <fnoble> rharrison|2e0rjh: hey
[05:21] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Ok I have it loud and a bit quite clear
[05:21] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Will set up yagi
[05:23] <jcoxon> :-)
[05:31] <rharrison|2e0rjh> loud and clear here
[05:31] <jcoxon> great
[05:32] <jcoxon> a bit worried about the M6 :-p
[05:32] <rharrison|2e0rjh> $$ATLAS,1604,4:31:10,53.101,-2.421,13322.000,0.1;1;1
[05:32] <rharrison|2e0rjh> $$ATLAS,1605,4:31:22,53.101,-2.420,13214.000,0.1;1;1
[05:32] <rharrison|2e0rjh> $$ATLAS,1606,4:31:34,53.102,-2.419,13116.000,0.1;1;1
[05:32] <rharrison|2e0rjh> $$ATLAS,1607,4:31:46,53.102,-2.417,13017.000,0.1;1;1
[05:32] <rharrison|2e0rjh> $$ATLAS,1608,4:31:58,53.102,-2.415,12911.000,0.1;1;1
[05:32] <rharrison|2e0rjh> $$ATLAS,1609,4:32:10,53.102,-2.414,12829.000,0.1;1;1
[05:32] <rharrison|2e0rjh> $$ATLAS,1610,4:32:22,53.103,-2.413,12739.000,0.1;1;1
[05:32] <rharrison|2e0rjh> $$ATLAS,1611,4:32:34,53.103,-2.412,12655.000,0.1;1;1
[05:32] <jcoxon> got it
[05:33] <jcoxon> its in view.php
[05:33] <rharrison|2e0rjh> It would be a mircal
[05:33] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Oh yep
[05:33] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Sorry bit sleepy
[05:33] <jcoxon> np
[05:33] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Do you want me to collect
[05:33] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Let me see the distance
[05:33] <jcoxon> rharrison|2e0rjh, lets see where it lands
[05:34] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I can do that if you want
[05:34] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Opps gps lock
[05:34] <jcoxon> uh oh
[05:34] <jcoxon> back
[05:35] <rharrison|2e0rjh> weird big log gaps
[05:35] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Is that a locking issue?
[05:35] <jcoxon> yeah probably
[05:36] <jcoxon> i've got a friend in uttoxeter
[05:37] <rharrison|2e0rjh> With a radio?
[05:37] <jcoxon> no
[05:38] <jcoxon> hehe
[05:38] <jcoxon> but if its obvious she could have a look
[05:38] <rharrison|2e0rjh> If you track to 1k you can send here over
[05:38] <rharrison|2e0rjh> I know some has there
[05:38] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Just a bit early for them
[05:39] <rharrison|2e0rjh> It was the stoke repeater i took out
[05:39] <rharrison|2e0rjh> BTW you guys are logging well you on the yaesu ft 917
[05:39] <jcoxon> yeah
[05:39] <jcoxon> big yagi
[05:39] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Cool
[05:40] <rharrison|2e0rjh> jcoxon you know if you click on the data box the map centres on the payload
[05:44] <jcoxon> yup
[05:44] <jcoxon> okay clear of m6, now to bear north a bit for a safe landing
[05:45] <rharrison|2e0rjh> humm
[05:45] <rharrison|2e0rjh> IT looking like a landing on the outskits of stoke in the suburbs
[05:45] <jcoxon> predictor predicts a swing north
[05:47] <rharrison|2e0rjh> good
[05:47] <rharrison|2e0rjh> It about an hour and 20 mins from me
[05:47] <jcoxon> still clear?
[05:48] <jcoxon> am beginning to struggle
[05:48] <rharrison|2e0rjh> yep atm
[05:48] <rharrison|2e0rjh> just tuned down
[05:50] <jcoxon> we've lost it
[05:51] <rharrison|2e0rjh> lost
[05:51] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Right you need to make a quick decision
[05:51] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Either I'm to bed or collecting
[05:51] <jcoxon> okay what are my options?
[05:51] <jcoxon> haha
[05:52] <jcoxon> give me 1 minute
[05:52] <rharrison|2e0rjh> Sure
[05:53] <jcoxon> okay well we think its landed just east of A527
[05:54] <jcoxon> so up to you
[05:54] <jcoxon> if you are free it would be great to collect it
[05:54] <jcoxon> but if its too much no worries
[05:55] <jcoxon> rharrison|2e0rjh, ping
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[06:00] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, you missed it
[06:00] <jcoxon> it just landed
[06:01] <SpikeUK> I know! Just got up to follow you
[06:02] <SpikeUK> ... guys and missed it by three mins!
[06:02] <jcoxon> hehe
[06:03] <jcoxon> what a flight
[06:03] <jcoxon> phew
[06:04] <SpikeUK> Really well done though. Five-half hours of float. I'm still loging in on the main PC - how did the altitude hold?
[06:04] <jcoxon> i reckon we had 7hrs float
[06:04] <jcoxon> 11 hrs flight
[06:05] <SpikeUK> Is that a record?
[06:05] <jcoxon> in the UK yes
[06:05] <jcoxon> worldwide now
[06:05] <jcoxon> no*
[06:05] <SpikeUK> Yay!
[06:06] <jcoxon> yeah when we got a lock back it was at 27182
[06:09] <SpikeUK> What time was that?
[06:10] <jcoxon> RX (2009-07-19 04:12Z): $$ATLAS,1516,4:12:24,53.079,-2.421,27245.000,0.1;1;1
[06:10] <jcoxon> so 05:12Z
[06:11] <SpikeUK> OK. Too early for sun-warming?
[06:11] <jcoxon> no there was lots of sun
[06:12] <jcoxon> that probably popped the balloon
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[06:14] <SpikeUK> OK. I'm wondering about GPS failure. It would take a while for any heat to get in to your enclosure. I feel the ned to design a micro data logger coming on ;-)
[06:14] <SpikeUK> need*
[06:15] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, it was definitely temperature
[06:15] <jcoxon> as we were watching the radio freq
[06:15] <jcoxon> as the sun came up it started going up
[06:15] <jcoxon> and then when it reached about the same point that we lost gps the gps turned back on
[06:15] <jcoxon> we reckon its the crystal in the gps
[06:15] <jcoxon> the cold shifts the freq so it can't find any sats
[06:17] <SpikeUK> OK. Have you tried it in an oven. (Yes I know that ovens are normally metal that may make this tricky)
[06:18] <jcoxon> no i haven't
[06:19] <jcoxon> we've never had this problem
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[06:19] <jcoxon> but then don't think we've ever had anything get so cold
[06:19] <jcoxon> hey rharrison_eee
[06:19] <rharrison_eee> hi
[06:19] <rharrison_eee> just about to set off
[06:19] <jcoxon> thanks for this
[06:20] <jcoxon> poor atlas - 2 flights in 2 days
[06:20] <rharrison_eee> np
[06:20] <jcoxon> total of about 14hrs of flight
[06:20] <SpikeUK> *That's* got to be a record!
[06:21] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/ARHABrecords.htm
[06:21] <rharrison_eee> nearly as long as mine :)
[06:21] <rharrison_eee> no you are alot longer
[06:22] <jcoxon> wow
[06:22] <jcoxon> new record
[06:22] <jcoxon> 1
[06:22] <jcoxon>
[06:22] <jcoxon> 128,379
[06:22] <jcoxon>
[06:22] <jcoxon> 10Jul09
[06:22] <jcoxon>
[06:22] <rharrison_eee> csn you find a local postcode
[06:22] <jcoxon> NS-22x (MdSGC/UMD)
[06:23] <jcoxon> yup
[06:23] <jcoxon> one sec
[06:23] <fnoble> nearby town is brindley ford
[06:23] <fnoble> thats very close, will that do?
[06:35] <rharrison_eee> ok chase tracking on
[06:35] <rharrison_eee> had to debug code
[06:35] <jcoxon> np
[06:35] <rharrison_eee> natriums
[06:35] <jcoxon> rharrison_eee, i'm going to head back to london at the same time
[06:35] <jcoxon> should be back when you get there
[06:36] <jcoxon> and fergus will be around
[06:36] <fnoble> rharrison_eee: my number is 07969 207686
[06:36] <fnoble> i can help from here
[06:38] <jcoxon> bbl
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[06:52] <g8khw-iPhone> Morning
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[07:19] <m0vfc> fnoble - nicely done - just checked out the tracker page and seen the comments :-)
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[07:23] Nick change: fnoble -> edmoore
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[08:11] <jcoxon> hey all
[08:12] <jcoxon> edmoore, fnoble|M0NBL
[08:13] <jcoxon> just to say i'm back home
[08:15] <jcoxon> rob has got it
[08:15] <jcoxon> tis recovered
[08:15] <jcoxon> woohoo
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[08:16] <jcoxon> night all
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[08:38] <edmoore> right, am ogg home for a bqq
[08:38] <edmoore> g'day/g'nioght everyone
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[08:56] <natrium42> yo
[08:56] <natrium42> is it still flying?
[08:57] <natrium42> ah, landed
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[09:30] <simonvc> anyone awake know if james recovered his payload this morning?
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[09:46] <rharrison_eee> bad news
[09:46] <rharrison_eee> can find
[09:47] <simonvc> :-(
[09:48] <simonvc> Is the mores beacon still transmitting? guess not
[09:50] <rharrison_eee> yes
[09:51] <rharrison_eee> see trrracker
[09:55] <rharrison_eee> driving
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[10:07] <Daviey> \o/
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[10:24] <simonvc_> You tube video of pre-launch checklist yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAEkTEd2UPo
[10:25] <simonvc_> the actual launch and pictures are going up now
[10:30] <rharrison_eee> .
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[10:41] <sbasuita> What happened to the gps then?
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[11:14] <RocketBoy> sbasuita: I think the suggestion is that the GPS crystal got too cold due to the sustained nighttime flight - and the GPS lost lock
[11:14] <edmoore> moral: more insulation
[11:14] <edmoore> and maybe a canon powershot to kick out some heat :)
[11:14] <sbasuita> hehe
[11:15] <RocketBoy> or a flip
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[11:16] <edmoore> but not too near the gps!
[11:16] <RocketBoy> yeah
[11:16] <RocketBoy> that caused me a lot of pain
[11:18] <edmoore> we're keen to do another flight same style asap, this time with internal and external temp, differential pressure in balloon and out of balloon, and maybe something that measures the sun's radiation in some useful way. This floaty business is fascinating
[11:19] <RocketBoy> cool - I'll let you know when da balloons ar in
[11:20] <edmoore> ta
[11:20] <RocketBoy> bbl
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[11:40] <rjharrison_iphon> Hey
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:41] <rjharrison_iphon> Payload is lost in a thicket
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[11:42] <rjharrison_iphon> Had to come home without it despite been within 20 meter of it
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> :/
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> oh - edmoores earlier got it was due to gps
[11:42] <rjharrison_iphon> It may be in the trees or some thing like that
[11:43] <rjharrison_iphon> Well the lack of dp on the coordinates didn't help
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> :/
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[11:44] <rjharrison_iphon> I spent 2 hours in the field looking for it but I had to give up in the end
[11:44] <rjharrison_iphon> As you can imagine I was quite keen to fing
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Congratulations anyway! It floated great at least.
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> no yagi - or did it just not work well?
[11:45] <rjharrison_iphon> Find it after driving all that way
[11:46] <rjharrison_iphon> Yagi was fine. I got the signal with no antenna that is how I know I was so close
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> maybe a massive atenuator for next time?
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> I don't know if the radio would be shielded enough.
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Though yes, better GPS would help lots.
[11:48] <rjharrison_iphon> Or just use a few more dp in the coords
[11:48] <rjharrison_iphon> iPhone is slow
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - that's what I mean.
[11:49] Action: SpeedEvil is slow - no coffee - though I suspect you're worse with all the driving!
[11:49] <rjharrison_iphon> Yep bed at 1.30 txt from ja
[11:49] <rjharrison_iphon> James at 5
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[11:50] <SpeedEvil> ow.
[11:50] <chembrow> wish I'd checked this morning, that's 10 miles from my home, would have joined the hunt :)
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> going back to get some sleep?
[11:50] <rjharrison_iphon> Hey chembrow perhaps you could have another look
[11:51] <rjharrison_iphon> Do you have a radio
[11:51] <chembrow> got family commitments for the rest of the day unfortunately.
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[11:51] <rjharrison_iphon> Radio?
[11:51] <chembrow> no, not got a radio (yet). Only just started getting interested in all this
[11:52] <rjharrison_iphon> Ok np
[11:52] <chembrow> need to get a radio, trying to find something in budget (~£100) on ebay
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> Add to teh feed on the webpage - lost in thicket at ...
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> and to anywhere you promoted it to in the radio community maybe
[11:53] <rjharrison_iphon> If you fancy a stroll around let me know and I will point you to within 20m of the payload
[11:53] <chembrow> thanks.will see if I can get away this afternoon. I'm used to geocaching :)
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> post it on the geocaching sites? :)
[11:54] <rjharrison_iphon> Chembrow you need to make sure USB option not just fm
[11:54] <rjharrison_iphon> Speedevil good idea
[11:55] <chembrow> thanks, rjharrison, that was the bit I was struggling to find
[11:55] <chembrow> loads of FM radios, no USB in my price range
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> Have there been actual nearby co-channel interference events that would cause a NBFM reciever to lose lock?
[11:56] <rjharrison_iphon> Don't know
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> (assuming a signal could even be reconstructed from the signal with no DC)
[11:56] <rjharrison_iphon> Chembrow the gps coords are on the tracker if you fancy a seach
[11:57] <chembrow> I looked them up on google maps, near peck mill lane?
[11:57] <rjharrison_iphon> I'll post something in a bit to show where I think it is
[11:58] Action: sbasuita thought the payload had already been found
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[12:06] <SpeedEvil> Also - a post on the ML? Dunno.
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[12:08] <SpeedEvil> nope.
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison_iphon: Had to come home without it despite been within 20 meter of it
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> thicket
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[12:14] <SpeedEvil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> oops
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[12:53] <jcoxon> morning all :-D
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[12:55] <SpeedEvil> Morning :/
[12:56] <DanielRichman> Did you recover it?
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> Payload located to within 20m - but not recovered.
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> oh
[12:57] <jcoxon> oops - so it couldn't be recovered :-(
[12:57] <jcoxon> oh well
[12:57] <jcoxon> its going to piss people off for a while
[12:57] Action: jcoxon has slept finally
[12:57] <jcoxon> hey Ralph_W0RPK
[12:58] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, for a good set of data points see here: http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[12:58] <jcoxon> this is a list sentences sent through to the server from the various listeners
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[13:16] <Ralph_W0RPK> Thanks James. What was the actual time of launch and at what coordinates?
[13:17] <jcoxon> oh yes
[13:17] <jcoxon> the launch was at 7pm GMT+1
[13:17] <jcoxon> from 52.2135, 0.0964
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[13:20] <jcoxon> during the GPS blackout we had excellent telemetry from Cambridge (the launch site) - just no GPS lock :-D
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[13:24] <russss> GPS dropped out again?
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[13:24] <russss> or was it the downlink that dropped out on friday?
[13:24] <rharrison_eee> Hey jcoxon i'm at the ball park
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[13:25] <jcoxon> hey
[13:25] <jcoxon> russss, the gps came back online this morning
[13:25] <jcoxon> then be balloon burst and descended to land in a impenetrable thicket
[13:26] <jcoxon> so its on the ground and alive however rharrison_eee spent 2hrs and could find it
[13:26] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[13:26] <edmoore> hi
[13:26] <rharrison_eee> couldn't James is tired
[13:27] <jcoxon> oops
[13:27] <rharrison_eee> hehe
[13:27] <jcoxon> 'couldn't'*
[13:27] <rharrison_eee> BTW why was gps limited to 3 dp
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[13:27] <jcoxon> why is a tough question
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> ~100m?
[13:27] <rharrison_eee> yep
[13:27] <jcoxon> its more the function that converts float to string
[13:27] <jcoxon> i had it set to 3
[13:28] <rharrison_eee> It would just narrow the search window :)
[13:28] <jcoxon> on testing its directly where it is - it sort of didn't pass through my mind that we needed to make it more accurate
[13:28] <jcoxon> apologies - something to fix
[13:28] <rharrison_eee> Esp when the search is covered in mud cow poo and trees and brambles
[13:29] <rharrison_eee> lol
[13:29] <rharrison_eee> My jeans smell of cow pee and are in the wash
[13:29] <jcoxon> haha
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon has shares in DAZ - you see.
[13:32] <jcoxon> oh well - didn't expect it to come back anyway :-p especially when the gps died last night
[13:32] <jcoxon> its had about 14hrs of flight now - not bad for a pretty crappy payload
[13:38] <rharrison_eee> lol
[13:38] <rharrison_eee> BTW how close was I to the 6:34 prediction
[13:41] <jcoxon> 5am landing
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> 6AM GMT
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> err
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> meh
[13:48] <rharrison_eee> Here you are http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/time.png
[13:49] <rharrison_eee> I was in BST so 6.00
[13:51] <rharrison_eee> jcoxon: Nice float there
[13:51] <rharrison_eee> I'll clean up the data today
[13:53] <Ralph_W0RPK> James -- Time stamped data in TRACKER does not appear to match time stamped data in the log during descent and landing. Perhaps I need to wait a few hours before continuing analysis for our ARHAB Records.
[13:53] <rharrison_eee> hey Ralph_W0RPK
[13:54] <rharrison_eee> Ralph_W0RPK: Is it an hour out ?
[13:55] <rharrison_eee> British summer time
[13:56] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, are you sure
[13:57] <jcoxon> are you comparing the data in http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php to http://spacenear.us/tracker/ ?
[13:58] <Ralph_W0RPK> Example: TRACKER shows 2046m at 21:02:02 but in the log this was during float(?)
[13:58] <russss> was the payload insulated much? do you think it'll be easy to stop it getting too cold?
[13:59] <rharrison_eee> Ralph_W0RPK: That is just bad data
[13:59] <rharrison_eee> Corruption in recieve
[14:00] <rharrison_eee> if you look at the graph of the data http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/time.png here you will see some bad points got through
[14:02] <jcoxon> russss, it was fairly insulated but prolonged exposure will result in it still getting incredibly cold - perhaps need some more active heating next time
[14:02] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, yeah thats a bad data point getting through
[14:02] <jcoxon> i've picked out most of them but didn't get them all obviously
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> Also - the power usage is too low.
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> It's what - a third of a watt?
[14:03] <Ralph_W0RPK> For ARHAB Records I need launch time and coordinates (which James gave me) and landing time and coordinates for which I have to have data, not an estimate. The last good data record before landing is often used.
[14:04] <jcoxon> the last truely clean data point was:
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> 2E0RJH/M : atlas,2438,7:12:50,53.085,-2.176,200.000,-0.4;3;2
[14:04] <jcoxon> 2E0RJH : ATLAS,1698,4:50:10,53.081,-2.203,2160.000,-9.8;3;2
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> o
[14:05] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, thats it on the ground
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> oops
[14:06] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, so 53.081,-2.203 at 04:50:10GMT
[14:08] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, apologies the launch time i gave you was in BST (GMT+1)
[14:10] <jcoxon> So:
[14:11] <jcoxon> Launch 18:00GMT from 52.2315 0.0964
[14:11] <jcoxon> Last Data Point 04:50:10 at 53.081 -2.203
[14:11] <jcoxon> GMT that is
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[14:21] <edmoore> all, inc jcoxon etc
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[14:21] <jcoxon> hey
[14:21] <edmoore> wolframm alpha is great for returning things like 'air density at 25km'
[14:22] <edmoore> making calculations of sea-level descent rates very easy for us
[14:22] <edmoore> given data up at the top
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> I hate that it has no concept of units.
[14:23] <edmoore> velocity = sqrt( 2*mass*gravity / density*Cd*Area ), just muliply the velocity by the appropriate root-density ratio
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> yes - but you also can't put that into WA - sqrt(2*1Kg*gravity accelleration / air density at 20km * 0.12*0.05) and get an answer
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> in google you can - if it understands the unit
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[14:26] <Laurenceb> hi
[14:27] <rharrison_eee> Launch with no vent at night http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/time2.png
[14:27] <Laurenceb> whats new?
[14:27] <rharrison_eee> Very similar my argument is that floating is an effect of slow assent and being night
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: payload located - but not recovered
[14:28] <Laurenceb> I've been away for a while, what was launched?
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> oh
[14:28] <rharrison_eee> not an effect of venting other than this slows the ascent rate
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> test floater
[14:28] <Laurenceb> ah cool
[14:28] <rharrison_eee> atlas again
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> a latex, with a little hole
[14:28] <Laurenceb> jcoxons launch?
[14:28] <Ralph_W0RPK> What was the latex balloon size, e.g., 500g. What was payload weight? Helium or hydrogen?
[14:29] <rharrison_eee> Helium
[14:29] <rharrison_eee> ping jcoxon
[14:29] <Laurenceb> so it floated then came down?
[14:29] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, 1.5kg helium, payloadweight = 550g, 1.5mm vent
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> rharrison_eee: I wonder if the latex has any measurable superpressure effect, due to the internal pressure.
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: floated, burst as sun hit it
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> after
[14:30] <Laurenceb> ah cool, last night?
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:30] <Laurenceb> neat
[14:30] <Laurenceb> I've been very busy with building work
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> An ark?
[14:30] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:31] <Laurenceb> what data do you have from the balloon?
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> none
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> not recovered
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> it was in a thicket
[14:31] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, there isn't any data to recover
[14:31] <Laurenceb> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/time2.png <- from last night?
[14:32] <rharrison_eee> I'm going to argue for a down draught during the night due to atmos effect and if balloon is going up slowly enough you get into equilibrum for the night
[14:32] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/time.png
[14:32] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:32] <Laurenceb> but... I dont get it
[14:32] <rharrison_eee> Laurenceb: no 3kg about a month ago from camb midnight
[14:32] <Laurenceb> very long float
[14:32] <jcoxon> yup
[14:32] <Laurenceb> what size hole?
[14:33] <jcoxon> 1.5mm
[14:33] <Laurenceb> ok
[14:33] <Laurenceb> odd that its a roughly constant ascent rate
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Oh - I thought I saw a SD on the pics - but looking again - nothing
[14:33] <Laurenceb> altogether very odd data
[14:34] <Laurenceb> Ias normally you have a constant ascent rate
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> Does anyone have actual data on the internal pressure vs diameter?
[14:34] <Laurenceb> - it looks like theres a hole that opens then closes
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> I'm assuming it starts out high, and then drops on some power.
[14:34] <Laurenceb> no
[14:34] <Laurenceb> yeah, you can work it out from first principles
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> If given the properties of latex when stretched and at -50C
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> which might be hard to find.
[14:35] <Laurenceb> hmm I guess the ascent rate does drop a bit...
[14:35] <Laurenceb> I guess due to the v^2 dependance of drag the effects isnt so obvious to the naked eye
[14:36] <Laurenceb> and its only got a small amount of extra lift
[14:36] <Laurenceb> is there a ground track?
[14:38] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/tracker
[14:42] <Laurenceb> wow
[14:42] <Laurenceb> want me to recover it?
[14:43] <jcoxon> if you can find it
[14:43] <jcoxon> rharrison_eee has already tried
[14:43] <jcoxon> please do
[14:43] <Laurenceb> where is he?
[14:43] <jcoxon> its just that the gps position isn't very accurate
[14:43] <Laurenceb> thats ~8miles from me atm
[14:43] <jcoxon> so its in quite a wide area
[14:44] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, it would be great,
[14:44] <jcoxon> do you have a radio?
[14:44] <Laurenceb> fraid not with me
[14:44] <jcoxon> oh well, so yeah if you could have a look that would be great, but if you are busy no worries
[14:45] <Laurenceb> last altitude at 202m?
[14:45] <jcoxon> yes
[14:45] <Laurenceb> and it was heading east..
[14:45] <jcoxon> oh its down
[14:45] <jcoxon> we know where it is
[14:46] <Laurenceb> yeah it was comin g down fast
[14:46] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, that data is it on the ground
[14:46] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[14:46] <jcoxon> just rob couldn't find the actual payload
[14:46] <Laurenceb> hmm
[14:46] <Laurenceb> its raining heavily now :-/
[14:47] Action: Laurenceb is in Ashbourne
[14:48] <Laurenceb> so hes there atm and looking?
[14:48] <Laurenceb> and the payloads gone quiet?
[14:48] <jcoxon> no he has been and gone
[14:48] <Laurenceb> oh
[14:48] <jcoxon> its still alive
[14:49] <Laurenceb> its rather wild contryside round there :-/
[14:50] <Laurenceb> why did he leave?
[14:50] <jcoxon> cause after 2hrs of search he could find it
[14:51] <Laurenceb> couldnt he get it on thwe radio?!
[14:51] <jcoxon> yes
[14:51] <Ralph_W0RPK> James -- What was ballast material and how much weight?
[14:51] <Laurenceb> and the gps position?
[14:51] <jcoxon> we know within 100m of where it is
[14:51] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, no ballast
[14:51] <Laurenceb> ?!?
[14:51] <Laurenceb> where is it? in a black hole?
[14:51] <jcoxon> i know its ballasthalo but its the test flight before trying with ballast
[14:52] <Laurenceb> how can you get within 100m and not find it
[14:52] <Ralph_W0RPK> Thanks\
[14:52] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, 53.085,-2.176 but he could find it - the terrain is thick
[14:52] <Laurenceb> ah trees?
[14:52] <jcoxon> yup
[14:52] <Laurenceb> I might be up for it....
[14:53] <jcoxon> no hurry Laurenceb
[14:53] <Laurenceb> so those position reports are from the ground?
[14:53] <jcoxon> yes
[14:54] <Laurenceb> appears to be a field
[14:54] <jcoxon> its not that fieldy apparently
[14:54] <Ralph_W0RPK> For ARHAB Flight Time records I get 10h50m. There is no record category for float but I get ~7h15m.
[14:54] <Laurenceb> north or south?
[14:55] <Laurenceb> so did he get a direction with a yagi?
[14:56] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, yes
[14:56] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3735040330/
[14:57] <jcoxon> its in the central arrow
[14:57] <jcoxon> rob has gone around it
[14:57] <jcoxon> and direction suggests in there
[14:57] <jcoxon> but its really really thick
[14:57] <simonvc_> James!, your pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonvc/sets/72157621551501877/
[14:58] <Laurenceb> undergrowth?
[14:58] <simonvc_> and 2 videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/simonvc
[14:58] <simonvc_> Still looking for it i guess?
[14:59] <jcoxon> simonvc_, within 100m but couldn't find it
[14:59] <simonvc_> is it still broadcasting?
[14:59] <jcoxon> yes
[15:00] <Laurenceb> nettles?
[15:00] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, yes
[15:00] <jcoxon> a job for wellies
[15:00] <Laurenceb> ok
[15:01] <jcoxon> simonvc_, great pictures
[15:01] <simonvc_> cheers
[15:01] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: I'll see what I can do... just working out the best way to get there
[15:02] <jcoxon> thank you Laurenceb
[15:03] <Laurenceb> may have to wait until this evening or tomorrow, sorry
[15:03] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, don't worry about it
[15:03] <jcoxon> when ever
[15:05] <Ralph_W0RPK> BallastHalo2 flight results are posted to http://www.ARHAB.org and http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/ARHABrecords.htm.
[15:07] <jcoxon> Ralph_W0RPK, great, thanks
[15:13] <rharrison_eee> Laurenceb: Are you near there?
[15:13] <rharrison_eee> The landing spot
[15:13] <Laurenceb> well I'm in ashbourne
[15:13] <Laurenceb> pretty close
[15:13] <rharrison_eee> There is lots of cow crap every where and nettles and trees
[15:13] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:14] <rharrison_eee> Take wellies
[15:14] <Laurenceb> couldnt you get to it?
[15:14] <rharrison_eee> Couldn't find it
[15:14] <rharrison_eee> very annoying
[15:14] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[15:14] <jcoxon> bbl
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[15:14] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: reciever saturated apparantly
[15:15] <Laurenceb> jcoxon, whats yout number?
[15:15] <rharrison_eee> Two hours and i must have been within 20m of it
[15:15] <Laurenceb> bah
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[15:16] <rharrison_eee> Laurenceb: if you have the time you should be able to find it
[15:16] <rharrison_eee> I couldn't see it in the tress so it must be down low somwhere
[15:16] <Laurenceb> ok
[15:17] <rharrison_eee> The lat and long on the tracker are correct
[15:17] <Laurenceb> right I'd better be off, hopefully I'll get it this evening
[15:17] <rharrison_eee> Cool
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> the lat and lon however are only 100m ish resolution
[15:17] <rharrison_eee> Be very impressed if you do
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> Good luck!
[15:17] <rharrison_eee> Laurenceb: its on a real slope too
[15:17] <Laurenceb> theres a hill going up there?
[15:18] Action: Laurenceb thinks... rogallo test flights :P
[15:18] <rharrison_eee> it on a hillside
[15:18] <Laurenceb> ok
[15:18] <rharrison_eee> best of luck
[15:18] <Laurenceb> cya then
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[15:34] <Professor> any updates on the balloon?
[15:35] <SpeedEvil> nope
[15:38] <Professor> suck
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[17:07] <rjharrison> any news on payload
[17:07] <rjharrison> I think laurenceb went looking
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> that's the last
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> he hasn't said anythjing in here since
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: right I'd better be off, hopefully I'll get it this evening
[17:15] <rjharrison> ok thanks SpeedEvil
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[17:34] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[17:34] <Professor> heya man
[17:34] <Professor> How's the project going?
[17:35] <jcoxon> it went well
[17:35] <jcoxon> payload is down on the ground, though hasn't yet been retrieved
[17:41] <sbasuita> I guess this is the sort of situation in which a buzzer or flashing light is handy...
[17:42] <jcoxon> yes
[17:42] <jcoxon> didn't want to scare anyone though
[17:42] <jcoxon> in somes people are more suspicious of a buzzing flashing thing
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: mp3 player, and something calming.
[17:42] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, whale sounds
[17:43] <jcoxon> or the sounds of the sea
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> Nena - 99 red balloons?
[17:45] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:47] <shauno> I'd love to see the farmer that goes searching for a whale in his back yard
[17:47] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:48] <jcoxon> imagine the suprised when he finds a whales we've floated in with a balloon
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[18:11] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:11] <rjharrison> fergusnoble, boo
[19:11] <rjharrison> any news from lawrenceb
[19:12] <fergusnoble> hi
[19:12] <fergusnoble> not heard from him, whats he up to?
[19:14] <sbasuita> fergusnoble, looking for the balloon
[19:14] <fergusnoble> oh awesome
[19:16] <rjharrison> fergusnoble, do you have lb's number
[19:16] <fergusnoble> no, sorry i dont
[19:16] <rjharrison> np
[19:16] <fergusnoble> james will have it i think
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[19:33] <fergusnoble> brb
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[19:55] <edmoore> some pics from gpsl http://rosincore.blogspot.com/2009/07/great-plains-super-launch-2009.html
[19:56] <edmoore> as fergus and james and all the guys often say, we really should try and make it out there soon
[20:06] Nick change: kingj -> KingJ
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[20:32] <rjharrison> we should have a HAB meet over the summer too
[20:32] <rjharrison> To discuss ideas and plans for the coming year
[20:34] <Daviey> Hmm.. Does a tranciever that supports SSB (USB, LSB) provide an RS-232 output? An inversely, one that doesn't requires audio output into a soundcard into a truetty application?
[20:35] <sbasuita> Daviey, I don't see how SSB and RS-232 are related?
[20:35] <Daviey> sbasuita: I mean, does it provide an RS-232 tty?
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> no
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> you don't do that
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> you generally just plug the speaker out into the soundcard
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> and the soundcard demodulates
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Trancievers with inbuilt digital modems are lots more expensive and less flexible
[20:38] <Daviey> SpeedEvil: Hmm.. so what is SSB?
[20:38] <edmoore> AM with one of the images supressed
[20:38] <Daviey> Surely any radio on that frequencey will pick up the baud?
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> SSB is a transmission mode
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> think of it like a method of encoding the signal
[20:39] <Professor> supressed carrier and one sideband
[20:39] <Daviey> Ah.. i thought SSB was for images!! I remember in my CB days reading about it..
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> If a SSB radio is tuned to n - then a signal of m is fed into it (a pure tone) it will output a frequency of n-m
[20:39] <Daviey> So why do we care about images?
[20:39] <Professor> remember when you mix 2 frequencies you get the sum and difference (and frequency A and frequency B)
[20:40] <Professor> you simply mix, then remove carrier and filter out one of the side bands
[20:40] <Professor> then amplify that so that all your RF out is signal
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> As long as n-m is positive and under 3KHz or so
[20:40] <Daviey> okay.. so it really does need SSB?
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> This means that if your transmitter frequency goes up and down by 100Hz to send data - the output tone coming out of the radio goes up and down by 100Hz too
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> this makes software demodulation really easy
[20:41] <Professor> you would have a hard time even knowing an SSB signal was there with an AM or FM receiver
[20:41] <Professor> yuo'd hear the band get quiet, that's about it
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[20:41] <Professor> oh?
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> You can clearly hear something is there with AM at least
[20:41] Action: Professor wonders if you know something about RF that the rest of us don't
[20:41] <Professor> wh0t?
[20:42] <Professor> *something*, perhaps
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[20:42] <Professor> not intelligible by humans
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[20:42] <Professor> the receiver would strip the signal away
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> I never said that it was intelligable.
[20:42] <Professor> it would think it's the carrier
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Umm - you're assuming something smart.
[20:42] <Professor> heh
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> If you simply connect a tuned circuit and peak detector to an SSB signal, you will get an output.
[20:42] <Professor> yes
[20:43] <Professor> it would get quiet
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> It won't be directly related to the input signal, but you can recognise some aspects.
[20:43] <Professor> perhaps modulated static
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> Err - no.
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> It's very obviously not modulated static.
[20:43] Action: Daviey notes UKHAS wiki needs a radio buying guide :)
[20:43] <Professor> well, I won't argue
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> A SSB voice signal.
[20:43] <Professor> have fun :)
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> Based on actually tuning to SSB on AM radio and actually listening to it.
[20:44] <Professor> yes, I've done it many times
[20:44] <Professor> often wondered wtf was wrong with my rig till I realized I was in AM mode
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> I guess we just have different definitions - no way would I call what I heard modulated static.
[20:44] <Professor> I don't mind
[20:45] <Daviey> So.. can someone write a buying guide. kkthnx :)
[20:45] <Professor> AM radios receive an amplitude modulated signal. What they then do is strip away the carrier that the AM radio is tuned to, and send the signal through the audio amp and to your ear
[20:46] <sbasuita> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suugn-p5C1M <--- spontaneous traffic jams
[20:46] <Professor> if you tune to a SSB transmission, you will have the signal stripped away and the radio will try to send the static at the sideband spacing to the speaker
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> Professor: you're going into that too deeply - they have a circuit that is designed to strip off the carrier - for AM signals. For SSB signals, the circuit does something not intentionally defined.
[20:47] <Professor> what circuit is this?
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> It's quite recognisable that it's a voice signal forex.
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Say a simple LC tuned circuit with a peak detector.
[20:48] <Professor> I'm failing to see how that would produce audio
[20:48] <edmoore> Daviey: the Yaesu ft-817 is the current favourite
[20:48] <Professor> you on facebook?
[20:48] <Professor> I have pix of my RF lab up
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> Consider a SSB signal with a 1KHz tone (on SSB) going on and off at 100Hz.
[20:48] <Daviey> edmoore: thanks
[20:48] <edmoore> I counted about 4 in our tracking room on friday night
[20:49] <Professor> including pics of a 1kHz carrier modulated at 100Hz looping through an HP 8901B modulation analyzer and showing the output 100Hz
[20:49] <edmoore> pretty much unanimous, save for me and my ic-7000
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> This will - at a broadcast frequency of 1MHz - say - be a tone at 1001KHz turning on and off at 100Hz.
[20:49] <Professor> well, I'm bored with thsi
[20:49] <Professor> er, this
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> If you feed this into an AM reciever, you recover a 100Hz signal.
[20:50] <Professor> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=146019&id=1210335479&l=d0532868c0
[20:54] <sbasuita> Professor has a tonne of old school electronic stuffs; Professor wins.
[20:54] <Daviey> Well, ebay is a waste of space.
[20:54] <fergusnoble> Daviey: another good one is the FT-790, its a much older radio but you can pick them up second hand for a fraction of the price of an 817 and they are more than adequate for HAB work
[20:54] <Professor> hahah
[20:54] <Professor> this is just my home lab
[20:54] <Professor> I have modern stuff at work
[20:54] <Professor> although, the stuff I have at home from the 1980s is actually quite a bit better
[20:55] <Daviey> fergusnoble: i think i missed one of those just a few hours ago :(
[20:55] <sbasuita> Professor, what do you do with it?
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> laurenceb's I think got some icom thingy
[20:55] <Professor> masturbate
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> USB controlled.
[20:55] <sbasuita> Professor, you scare me
[20:55] <Professor> hahaha
[20:55] <Professor> It's for hobby and work stuff
[20:55] <Professor> RF amplifier design, PIC projects, whatevah
[20:56] <sbasuita> Professor, looks expensive
[20:56] <Professor> one of my recent hobbies is precision time keeping so I have stuff to support that and to characterize oscillators and such
[20:56] <Professor> well, my oscilloscope (the good one) was $200
[20:56] <Professor> I'm good at eBay
[20:56] <Professor> I think I paid $70 for my rubidum beam
[20:57] <fergusnoble> Professor: like the tek rack
[20:57] <Daviey> Professor: ntpd :)
[20:57] <Professor> ntpd is okay
[20:57] <sbasuita> ntp is the best thing ever
[20:57] <sbasuita> it just works
[20:57] <Professor> I do run a spiffy freebsd ntp server, probably one of the most accurate on the planet
[20:57] <sbasuita> Professor, you in the uk pool (that's what i use)
[20:58] <Professor> I don't usually care what time it is though
[20:58] <Professor> only how stable and jitter free oscillators are
[20:58] <Daviey> Professor: What is your clock source?
[20:58] <Professor> daviey: rubidum oscillator clocked from 10MHz to 33.3333333 (replaced the clock crystal with a DDS board)
[20:58] <Professor> gps with PPS as well for the actual time and time sync
[20:59] <Daviey> crikey
[20:59] <Professor> pps is rated to be with in 25ns of "reality" (gps time)
[20:59] <Professor> right now my good oscillator is within 2ns of reality
[20:59] <Professor> synchronized within 2ns that is
[20:59] <Professor> rarely does it go outiside of 10ns
[21:00] <edmoore> Daviey: proviso on the FT-790 vs the 817 (especially important if you get an urge to get a radio license as many do) is that the 790 is on the 434mhz band only, whereas the 817 is all amatuer bands
[21:00] <Professor> when you're making picosecond measurements, you need good stable oscillators otherwise your data is worthless
[21:00] <edmoore> well, apart from the niche Ghz ones
[21:00] <Professor> low picosecond measurements at that
[21:00] <Daviey> Professor: i thought the top stratums were atomic based?
[21:00] <Professor> my rubidum is atomic
[21:00] <Professor> it uses Rb, not Cs
[21:01] <Daviey> edmoore: thanks
[21:01] <Professor> I do have a primary standard Cs though, but rarely do I fire it up
[21:01] <sbasuita> Professor, why is that?
[21:01] <Professor> I simply don't need the accuracy, and a replacement tube costs $16k
[21:01] <Professor> kinda wanna keep it around a while
[21:01] <sbasuita> ouch
[21:02] <sbasuita> Professor, I presume you have a use for all this accuracy?
[21:02] <Professor> absolutely, the most important of reasons
[21:02] <Professor> hobby!
[21:02] <Professor> just for fun
[21:02] <sbasuita> "I simply don't need the accuracy"
[21:02] Action: Daviey tries to think of a scenario that i can put the transceiever through as a biz expense :)
[21:02] <Professor> one day a friend gave me some HP time mark generator for calibrating oscilloscopes
[21:03] <Professor> it spits out pulses every "x" time periods, selectable by you
[21:03] <Professor> so I sat down after letting it warm up for a few days and went to adjust my scope (it too was on for a few days warming up)
[21:03] <Professor> I then quickly realized that I had no way to know if the time mark generator was actually accurate
[21:03] <Professor> I thought about this a while and then it all went to shit rapidly
[21:04] <Professor> I have no such problems anymore
[21:05] <Professor> hehe, a man with a clock knows what time it is
[21:05] <Professor> a man with two clocks is never really sure
[21:06] <Professor> http://www.nerdhouse.org/projects/timeserver/
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[21:07] <Professor> the OXCO in those pictures was replaced once I brought it home from work
[21:07] <Professor> er, OCXO rather
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[21:10] <fergusnoble> edmoore: how was the bbq? are you back in cam yet?
[21:10] <edmoore> good thanks and no, am tempted to come back early tomorrow
[21:10] <edmoore> not quite decided yet though
[21:11] <edmoore> will see how i fell when washing dries
[21:12] Action: Daviey gives up on ebay
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> Ebay works badly if you wantr something now.
[21:13] <Daviey> yeah
[21:14] <edmoore> Daviey: http://www.anchorsupplies.com/cbham.htm
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[21:14] <edmoore> they've an 817 - may be worth a try
[21:17] <Daviey> edmoore: will do, thanks
[21:18] <edmoore> fergusnoble: I've ambitions of the icom 910 for us. dual tranceivers so we can uplink and downlink simultaneously or do witchcraft things like Rob was doing. Or for working sats. It's a bench radio rather than a mobile, but a really gogeous vhf/uhf/23cm rig
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[21:19] <edmoore> may have to leave it a while before proffering the notion of spending even more money on radio kit though :)
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[21:52] <rjharrison> edmoore, fergusnoble This is very old but if true a possible cause of the convection current theory http://www.jstor.org/pss/98087
[21:54] <edmoore> good link - fergus is in cambridge so may have access to the full thing automaticaly
[21:54] <fergusnoble> yup, can get pdf
[21:55] <rjharrison> Cool
[21:55] <fergusnoble> shall i do the naughty thing?
[21:55] <rjharrison> Can I have a copy
[21:55] <rjharrison> yep
[21:55] <fergusnoble> ok
[21:55] <fergusnoble> i sec
[21:55] <rjharrison> In the interest of science
[21:55] <rjharrison> :)
[21:55] <edmoore> god save CUDN
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[21:56] <rjharrison> It's the abstract that caught my eye
[21:56] <rjharrison> I'll let you guys play with the maths
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[21:57] <rjharrison> jcoxon, have a glance at this http://www.jstor.org/pss/98087
[21:57] <rjharrison> The abstract is interesting
[21:57] <jcoxon> hey
[21:57] <jcoxon> payload found
[21:57] <rjharrison> Where
[21:57] <jcoxon> 15m up a tree
[21:57] <rjharrison> Cool
[21:57] <jcoxon> laurence has found it but can't get it down
[21:58] <rjharrison> At least I don't feel too stupid
[21:58] <jcoxon> he has taken
[21:58] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:58] <jcoxon> he has taken a picture
[21:58] <rjharrison> Cool
[21:58] <rjharrison> Where is it
[21:58] <rjharrison> on his phone
[21:58] <jcoxon> will upload later
[21:58] <rjharrison> is it mms
[21:59] <jcoxon> think its normal camera
[21:59] <jcoxon> not sure
[21:59] <rjharrison> was it in the thicket at I predicted?
[21:59] <jcoxon> will have to wait for him to appear
[21:59] <jcoxon> not sure
[21:59] <jcoxon> right will bbl - have to do non-hab stuff
[21:59] <rjharrison> life
[21:59] <rjharrison> bummer hey
[21:59] <jcoxon> bbl
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[22:00] <edmoore> 15m up a tree!?
[22:00] <edmoore> that's a f*ck of a tree
[22:01] <rjharrison> Yep I said there were some big bugger there
[22:02] <rjharrison> I feel vindicated for not finding it in the pooring rain this morning after 2 hours trawling around in the mud
[22:02] <rjharrison> and cow crap
[22:02] <edmoore> sounds like you were having a fun time
[22:02] <rjharrison> lovely
[22:02] <rjharrison> Just the way i like it
[22:03] <rjharrison> One for the spud gun
[22:03] <edmoore> why do comedians at gigs always announce themselves in an offstage mic in the 3rd person?
[22:04] <edmoore> I always notice this
[22:04] <rjharrison> bbc2
[22:05] <edmoore> uhuh
[22:05] <edmoore> he did it too
[22:06] <rjharrison> ok back later
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[22:21] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:22] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, any luck?
[22:22] <Laurenceb> fraid its still stuck
[22:23] <Laurenceb> I didnt bring much kit for tree retreval
[22:23] <Laurenceb> its very badly tangled
[22:23] <DanielRichman> Oh you found it!
[22:23] <DanielRichman> nice
[22:24] <Laurenceb> I took some photos before leaving
[22:24] <Laurenceb> just a sec
[22:25] <sbasuita> cool
[22:26] <Laurenceb> I think a bow and arrow with some line attached to the back
[22:26] <Laurenceb> I used to have one.. probably lost it
[22:30] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/56439
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> Is that a balloon?
[22:32] <Laurenceb> thats the payload and chute
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> oh - chute
[22:32] <Laurenceb> how do you rescale in gimp?
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I was thinking the chute was the balloon
[22:33] Action: SpeedEvil uses xv.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:34] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/56440
[22:34] <gordonjcp> Laurenceb: "scale"
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: oh - right
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> complete fail.
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> The white bits in the background are sky I guess
[22:34] <gordonjcp> Laurenceb: in the Image menu
[22:34] <Laurenceb> balloon is in the right hand side
[22:34] <Laurenceb> yeah got it
[22:35] <Laurenceb> theres some line hanging from the envelope
[22:35] <Laurenceb> I managed to throw that up and loop it round
[22:35] <Laurenceb> but the line to the payload is tangled right round the top of the tree
[22:36] <Laurenceb> payload is just to the left of the top
[22:36] <DanielRichman> Pull harder :)
[22:36] <Laurenceb> its hopelessly tangled
[22:36] <Laurenceb> the tree is about 20m high
[22:36] <DanielRichman> how are you going to get it down?
[22:36] <Laurenceb> bow and arrow?
[22:37] <Laurenceb> with trailing line
[22:37] <Laurenceb> shoot it through the chute
[22:37] <DanielRichman> but won't you have the same problem?
[22:37] <DanielRichman> oh right
[22:37] <Laurenceb> or climb up with telescopic cutters
[22:38] <DanielRichman> sounds like fun
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> Axe.
[22:39] <DanielRichman> Chainsaw?
[22:43] <sbasuita> climb the tree
[22:44] <sbasuita> or nuke it from orbit
[22:44] <sbasuita> the second is obviously less dangerous
[22:45] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/56442
[22:46] <RocketBoy> We normally use telescopic poles for rockets and chutes caught in trees - catch the chute and push up from beneith untill free - need a long pole - use use the sort for getting stuff off power lines
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[22:48] <Laurenceb> took me about an hour to find it
[22:48] <Laurenceb> I was looking in the wrong place and it was hard to spot
[22:49] <Laurenceb> saw the envelope first
[22:51] <shauno> Am I the only one that finds it funny that 20 meters seems like more of a challenge than 30km ?
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[23:08] <Laurenceb> I think jcoxon is coming this was soon, so hes thinking of having another go
[23:08] <Laurenceb> *way
[23:09] <RocketBoy> where abouts is it?
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[23:10] <Laurenceb> that tree borders the road
[23:10] <RocketBoy> in the country that is?
[23:10] <Laurenceb> ?
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> stoke on trent
[23:10] <Laurenceb> oh its north of stoke on trent
[23:10] <Laurenceb> its on the tracker
[23:11] <RocketBoy> oh right
[23:12] <Laurenceb> about 20m east of where rob stopped in his car
[23:13] <Laurenceb> - thats up the hill, I cant remember if thats on the tracker still. Its very wet and muddy theres an open cast coal mine nearby but its pretty rural
[23:14] <RocketBoy> oh sorry - thought this was another payload we were taking about
[23:14] <Laurenceb> I'll try and find the diagram rjharrison made - think its on flickr
[23:14] <Laurenceb> this is the floater
[23:14] <RocketBoy> yeah - now i understand
[23:14] Action: SpeedEvil just realised how much faster computers have gotten.
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> My current system is of a close order a million times faster than my first. (for floating point anyway)
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> (the ZX81 really sucked for floating point)
[23:15] <RocketBoy> I was going to suggest a loan of the EARS pole set - but its a way to go
[23:17] <RocketBoy> unless someone is traveling that way
[23:17] <Laurenceb> if jcoxon wants more help I should be free
[23:18] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3735040330/
[23:18] <Laurenceb> tree is north of the middle arrow
[23:18] <Laurenceb> not the first one north of the arrow but the second - bordering the lane
[23:24] <Laurenceb> if jcoxon is travelling up he might be able to collect the poles on the way I guess
[23:24] <Laurenceb> he'll need some wellies and a wet suit :P
[23:25] <Laurenceb> bbl
[23:25] <RocketBoy> I'll drop him a text
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[23:36] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
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[23:43] <rharrison_eee> hey Laurenceb
[23:43] <rharrison_eee> where was it then
[23:44] <rharrison_eee> In the thicket by the road
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3735040330/
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: tree is north of the middle arrow
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> http://imagebin.org/56442
[23:45] <rharrison_eee> yep that is where i thought
[23:45] <rharrison_eee> in the thicket
[23:46] <rharrison_eee> wow well idden
[23:46] <rharrison_eee> h
[23:46] <rharrison_eee> well done Laurenceb
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[23:49] <rharrison_eee> opps
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[23:58] <Laurenceb> back
[23:58] <Laurenceb> rjharrison_eee: yeah took me a while to find :P
[00:00] --- Mon Jul 20 2009