highaltitude.log.20090709

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[00:47] <Laurenceb> ok I've done it
[00:47] <Laurenceb> 10Kg n prize vehicle
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> What's the orbit the payload is in?
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> And can I see it at night?
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:53] <Laurenceb> 20grams
[00:53] <Laurenceb> on the front of the second stage
[00:54] <Laurenceb> 1.5m total lenght
[00:54] <Laurenceb> 15cm diameter
[00:54] <Laurenceb> with 8Kg of peroxide and kerosene
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> the balabnce being the solid second?
[00:55] <Laurenceb> 940 gram second stage
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> how confident are you on the data for the solid
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> ?
[00:56] <Laurenceb> pretty much
[00:56] <Laurenceb> theres a lot of tests from different manufacturers
[00:56] <Laurenceb> not sure on the solid
[00:56] <Laurenceb> aerotech have some with 7.5second burntime
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[00:56] <Laurenceb> thatd keep the accel below 100G
[00:57] <Laurenceb> ISP in the tests is around 214 maximum
[00:57] <SpeedEvil> what's the solids delta-v?
[00:57] <SpeedEvil> 4km/s?
[00:57] <Laurenceb> Im betting on 230 with a proper nozzle and vacuum
[00:57] <Laurenceb> 4.9Km/sec
[00:58] <Laurenceb> 4 for the first stage
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> pity testing vacuum ISP is annoying
[01:02] <Laurenceb> I worked out a nice way to do nozzle vectoring
[01:02] <Laurenceb> use servos with eccentric cams
[01:02] <Laurenceb> then about 15 degrees of a ball joint used to mount the nozzle
[01:02] <Laurenceb> if you see what I mean
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[01:03] <Laurenceb> and a sprung metal seal
[01:03] <Laurenceb> + high temperature heat conductive grease
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> Sealing sounds optimistic.
[01:03] <Laurenceb> then silical fabric over the top
[01:03] <Laurenceb> between the edge of the graphite and the phenolic
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> I have half a migrane at the moment - I probably can't sensibly comment.
[01:04] <Laurenceb> :-/
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> either a migrane, or toothche - I'm unsure.
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[01:18] <Laurenceb> I stick the fuel at the top of the stage for this design
[01:18] <Laurenceb> to make it easier to control
[01:21] <Laurenceb> vacuum formed PET bulkheads
[01:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rxk6nlN9uM
[02:07] <Laurenceb> interesting that the second stage dry mass is 110 grams of which only 20 is payload
[02:07] <Laurenceb> may be possible to go even smaller
[02:07] <Laurenceb> but its reaching the point where first stage fixed masses are becoming important
[02:07] <Laurenceb> (electronics, servos ect)
[02:46] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
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[08:11] <jcoxon> morning all
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[09:09] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[09:09] <edmoore> morning capn
[09:10] <jcoxon> was wondering - is it possible for me to get a copy of the website predictor code
[09:10] <jcoxon> wasn't sure if i could check it out with out a username/password
[09:11] <jcoxon> oops i can download using websvn
[09:11] <jcoxon> sorry
[09:12] <edmoore> i'd wait a few days
[09:12] <edmoore> there's a re-written version
[09:12] <jcoxon> oh okay
[09:12] <edmoore> but sure, the thing on the svn will work, I think
[09:12] <jcoxon> got it - nice tarball of hte file didn't notice that option
[09:15] <jcoxon> do you guys run it daily automagically out of interest? to forecast possible flights
[09:16] <edmoore> no, but that's a job to be done with the new one
[09:17] <edmoore> along with making a better interface to scheduling things - so we can model a second chute being deployed or whatever
[09:18] <jcoxon> oh cool
[09:18] <edmoore> @v = 100, CdA = 2.27.
[09:18] <jcoxon> the automagically thing was what i was thinking
[09:18] <edmoore> it'll be plonked on the new server quite probably. a daily digest
[09:18] <jcoxon> perhaps a webpage of - high risk/lowrisk
[09:20] <edmoore> might just fly a few basic scenarios and see where they land
[09:21] <edmoore> to 30km @ 3m/s, 4m/s, 5m/s
[09:21] <jcoxon> yeah, then have a polygon checker
[09:22] <edmoore> yep
[09:22] <edmoore> jcoxon: I love the 817
[09:22] <jcoxon> its a beauty isn't it
[09:22] <jcoxon> so much yet so small
[09:22] <edmoore> am listening to radio 4 currently
[09:22] <jcoxon> haha
[09:23] <jcoxon> did a proper test of my cutdown yesterday with fake gps triggering it to fire
[09:23] <edmoore> she worked?
[09:23] <jcoxon> yup
[09:23] <edmoore> cool
[09:24] <jcoxon> melted that line, after 5 secs nothing was left
[09:24] <edmoore> nice
[09:24] <edmoore> i want someone to launch a melter through a big rain-cloud one day
[09:24] <edmoore> just to see how it holds up to some icing
[09:25] <jcoxon> i think its a scrub for this weekend
[09:25] <edmoore> it doesn't look too hot does it
[09:25] <jcoxon> no, not worth the risk
[09:25] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:26] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!n=jcoxon@host81-159-26-92.range81-159.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk - Potential Launch: BallestHalo 1, Postponed till next week
[09:27] <edmoore> 120knt jetstream on sunday
[09:27] <edmoore> i think you'd probably loose it :)
[09:28] <jcoxon> or it'll get to europe...
[09:28] <jcoxon> we should call up the netherlands and ask if it would be okay if we flew a balloon to them
[09:28] <edmoore> you want to risk it?
[09:28] <edmoore> it's probably better not to ask at all :)
[09:29] <jcoxon> not this one, but in the future
[09:29] <jcoxon> well it breaks the distance rule on our permission
[09:29] <jcoxon> but i guess by that point we are out of UK airspace
[09:29] <jcoxon> so it doesn't matter
[09:31] <edmoore> i think once above 60,000ft you're out of everyone's jurisdiction
[09:31] <jcoxon> true
[09:31] <edmoore> obviously you have to come back down again...
[09:31] <jcoxon> i'm keen for a crossing sea flight - i think it would be an amateur first
[09:31] <jcoxon> not counting nova 3 when it floated
[09:33] <edmoore> :)
[09:33] <edmoore> there must be some keen dutch hams
[09:34] <edmoore> dwingledoo has a 70cm receiver i think - they might be able to hear it
[09:34] <edmoore> just about
[09:34] <edmoore> dwingeloo*
[09:35] <jcoxon> yeah i'm sure an inquiry on #hamradio would reveal some willing participents
[09:35] <jcoxon> we could go further and further, denmark next then norway...
[09:35] <jcoxon> :-D
[09:36] <edmoore> norway would be a trick
[09:37] <jcoxon> it could be an interesting approach to trans-a
[09:37] <jcoxon> as in instead of going crazy and trying it in one we instead start small and scale up
[09:37] <jcoxon> taking advantage of our position and the JS
[09:38] <edmoore> any news on the moratorium?
[09:38] <jcoxon> well its unofficially in place
[09:38] <jcoxon> PBL guys have volunteered to liase
[09:38] <jcoxon> but i don't think their new team has started yet so nothing - tis all quiet - might email around
[09:39] <edmoore> the lack on continuity on annual teams could hamper things a little
[09:39] <jcoxon> its all gone a bit quiet really, and i fear when i disappear off till october it'll get even quieter
[09:39] <jcoxon> well their supervisor is the one we talked with - so he is the one liasing but with out a team i doubt there is much incentive
[09:41] <edmoore> october :(
[09:41] <edmoore> so where are you going?
[09:41] <edmoore> I've probably already asked but I have a habit of forgetting
[09:41] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:42] <jcoxon> i'm off to glasgow for 3 weeks doing infectious disease - so just swine flu really
[09:42] <jcoxon> then i'm flying to ghana to work for 6 weeks in a small hospital in the north
[09:42] <edmoore> cool
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> probably not swine flu.
[09:43] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, oh the team i'm with are public health people - they've been dealing with swine flu for hte last couple of months
[09:43] <SpeedEvil> random tropical, malaria, deficiency diseases, worms and stuff?
[09:43] <SpeedEvil> I mean in ghana.
[09:43] <jcoxon> oh right, yeah
[09:44] <jcoxon> it'll be malaria and nutritional deficiency
[09:44] <edmoore> going to hit tesco. need fruit and peanut butter.
[09:44] <jcoxon> edmoore, you around all day?
[09:44] <edmoore> yep
[09:44] <jcoxon> doing anything interesting? or fancy some sort of radio link?
[09:45] <edmoore> working on project - what frequency were you thinking?
[09:45] <jcoxon> not sure, anything that could be made to work - happy to construct some sort of antenna
[09:45] <edmoore> i have a long bit of wire dangling out the window
[09:46] <jcoxon> might hoist up my moxon and see if i can grab the cambridge repeater
[09:46] <jcoxon> you've got work - no worries
[09:47] <edmoore> yeah, would certainly be up for trying the repeater
[09:48] <jcoxon> well i'll see how high i can get it and see if i can pick anything up
[09:50] <edmoore> ok cool
[09:50] <edmoore> i am going to hit tesco
[09:50] <edmoore> bbiab
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[10:12] <SpeedEvil> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/eula/pro.mspx :)
[10:13] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:40] <edmoore> jcoxon: back
[10:49] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[10:49] <jcoxon> i can't get anything
[10:50] <jcoxon> just too far away
[10:52] <edmoore> yeah - it is only 25W too
[10:52] <edmoore> with a hill in the way
[10:53] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:53] <edmoore> we need a balloon digipeater
[10:53] <jcoxon> exactly!
[10:56] <edmoore> or you need a yagi stack
[10:58] <edmoore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFAXHh9vfmA&feature=channel_page
[10:58] <edmoore> there's a nice one in there
[10:58] <edmoore> this is one of the CUWS guys
[11:00] <edmoore> at 2 mins
[11:01] <jcoxon> :-)
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[11:14] <edmoore> hickup
[11:14] <jcoxon> oops
[11:14] <jcoxon> freenode failed
[11:52] Nick change: kingj -> KingJ
[12:24] <edmoore> jcoxon: what's new this morn
[12:40] <jcoxon> nothing much to tell the truth
[12:49] <jcoxon> going to make hte payload casing this afternoon
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[14:14] <rhjharrison> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8141195.stm
[14:14] <rhjharrison> Might be of interest to some of you
[15:35] <edmoore> rjharrison: so we pretend our payloads are ice, then?
[15:35] <edmoore> actually you know that's not such a bad idea
[15:35] <edmoore> all the evidence would be destroyed
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[15:51] <SpeedEvil> You could actually insulate with ice foam.
[15:51] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how you'd cast that.
[16:23] <sbasuita> jcoxon, hey, apparently you never picked up the radiometrix module from your local post office or something, and now they've sent it back
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[17:52] <Fighter1405> Hey all
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[18:00] <rhjharrison> sbasuita: How do you know about the RM module
[18:00] <rhjharrison> Did you chat with RM
[18:01] <sbasuita> rhjharrison, he sent an ntx2 erroneously with the yaesu he lent me, and requested it back, so I got my dad to post it to him
[18:01] <sbasuita> rhjharrison, what do you mean in your second message?
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[19:34] <sbasuita> jcoxon, did you get my earlier message?
[19:36] <edmoore> jcoxon: am picking up tonned of dutch morse with a bit of old wire thrown out the window
[19:36] <edmoore> I love HF!
[19:37] <edmoore> tonnes*
[19:40] <jcoxon> sbasuita, yes, sorry i was away on placement when it arrived and therefore got a card saying that i had missed it but then when i called to get it redelivered they said they had already sent it back
[19:41] <jcoxon> and i wasn't sure what parcel it was so could chase whoever sent it
[19:41] <jcoxon> edmoore, hehe
[19:41] <jcoxon> next step is getting stuff from across the pond
[19:41] <edmoore> i won't be doing that with this bit of wire drapped down the side of college looking west
[19:41] <edmoore> draped*
[19:42] <jcoxon> edmoore, rjharrison RocketBoy, what is the general consensus on layout of flight computers in payload boxes
[19:42] <jcoxon> all laid out flat? stacked? attached to the sides
[19:42] <edmoore> keep em away from potentially noisy stuff, have them insulated, make sure their cables are constrained and won't tug at the board itself
[19:43] <edmoore> other than that I don't think we really have a rule
[19:44] <jcoxon> trying to plan before i start construction
[19:44] <jcoxon> i guess the key is easy access on the launch site
[19:45] <edmoore> if you can turn it on the plug in pyros without needing to un-do the lid, that's a big plus
[19:45] <jcoxon> yes
[19:45] <jcoxon> i might do a stacked system
[19:45] <jcoxon> batteries on the bottom
[19:45] <jcoxon> then flightcomputer/gps on the next layer
[19:46] <akawaka> stacked with all external connectors on the edge sounds good
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[19:49] <jcoxon> heavy things on the bottom as well, don't want them squashing everything else
[19:51] <edmoore> jcoxon: BILBAO clear as a nut
[19:52] <edmoore> that's a record distance for the gardening-wire-antenna-down-a-crappy-wall (tm)
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[20:09] <jcoxon> 40m is good today
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[20:46] <rjharrison> jcoxon: Personally I'm a favorite of board on the side of the paylaod to give max space for other stuff in the payload
[20:47] <rjharrison> Personally if you aren't taking camera and stuff then it matters little save to lock everything down.
[20:48] <rjharrison> I would take serious note of making sure that pull on the antenna cable does not cause undue stress on the connection to the board or indeed pull on the board to such an extent that it causes disconnection of other connectors
[20:49] <jcoxon> rjharrison, yes, very true
[20:50] <rjharrison> some sort of bulge on internal cable passing through somthing like a washer to prevent any direct pull on the board. Even a knot on the RF cable would suffice though not very pretty
[20:50] <jcoxon> could blob a bit of glue around the cable
[20:50] <rjharrison> And possibly affecting the RF TX
[20:50] <rjharrison> Perfect
[20:51] <jcoxon> i think its an interesting idea though, how payloads are laid out
[20:51] <jcoxon> as i don't properly plan it it when 'planning' a payload
[20:51] <jcoxon> which is always a mistake
[20:51] <rjharrison> Though if you're like me it is helpfull to be able to remove everything from the payload box
[20:52] <jcoxon> got that 350g balloon
[20:52] <rjharrison> I find the use of thin foam inserts usefull for wedging everthing in place
[20:52] <jcoxon> typical ebay in that it isn't good quality
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> It's 350g - it's a balloon - what do you expect? :)
[20:52] <rjharrison> If you are desparate I could send you the 1.5kg
[20:52] <jcoxon> no no, its cool
[20:52] <jcoxon> wx is terrible right now
[20:52] <rjharrison> You sure
[20:52] <rjharrison> Yep
[20:53] <rjharrison> Is RocketBoy ordering some more balloons
[20:53] <jcoxon> doubt will be okay till weds next week
[20:53] <jcoxon> yes
[20:53] <jcoxon> they are ordered apparently
[20:53] <rjharrison> It's going to be a summer of fun
[20:53] <jcoxon> hehe, i won't be here :-p
[20:53] <jcoxon> but yes i expect lots of launches
[20:53] <rjharrison> I have a question on polygon cutdown
[20:54] <jcoxon> okay...
[20:54] <rjharrison> I'm wondering on what the best way is to identify how far I am from the edge of the uk polygon given launch position, current postions and the time it has taken me to get there
[20:55] <rjharrison> Do I just measure distance from me to nearest edge of polygon
[20:55] <rjharrison> and say if I'm within 20 miles then cutdown
[20:55] <jcoxon> really depends how compilcated you want to go
[20:56] <jcoxon> hmmmm i'd personally bring the polygon in by 20 miles and then cutdown when you leave the polygon
[20:57] <rjharrison> Do I take a vector between launch and current postion and time taken to get to current postion and use that to identify likley corossing of boundry measure distance and calculate how close I can get before cutdown
[20:57] <jcoxon> that sounds excesively complicated
[20:58] <rjharrison> based on current ground vector and a 5m/s descent rate
[20:58] <rjharrison> Yep it was getting complicated when I was thinking about it
[20:58] <jcoxon> just bring the polygon in by a safe descent distance
[20:58] <rjharrison> I quite like the idea of cross the line and cut
[20:58] <jcoxon> and then cutdown when you pass outside the polygon
[20:58] <jcoxon> thats how i would do it
[20:59] <rjharrison> But it obviously does not take into account the varying wind speed on any given day.
[20:59] <jcoxon> true
[20:59] <jcoxon> perhaps high and low risk polygons as they are only lists of coords
[20:59] <jcoxon> thn you decide which to use
[21:00] <rjharrison> Given the speed of the last Badger it could be quite hairy cutting at 33k with 20 miles to go
[21:00] <rjharrison> Yep
[21:00] <jcoxon> or you can use rocketboy's code to predict landing site
[21:00] <jcoxon> and then when that goes outside the polygon cutdown
[21:02] <rjharrison> Yep RocketBoy's code is probably the way forward
[21:02] <rjharrison> I'll have a look at it as I have a lot of space on the chip now and I have discovered floating point arthmetic on the avr
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[21:36] <rjharrison> If you are board check out this http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/ks2bitesize/games/questionaut/pop.shtml
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[21:43] <Laurenceb> hi
[21:46] <Laurenceb> http://www.zcorp.com/en/Products/3D-Printers/ZPrinter-650/spage.aspx
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[22:02] <Xenion> Gute Nacht alle miteinander :-) / Good night all together :-)
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[22:05] <Laurenceb> apparently it uses standard epsom cartridges
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[22:18] <jcoxon> amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBn1h0x-37E
[22:20] <Laurenceb> ramstein
[22:20] <jcoxon> wasn't really the music i was saying was amazing
[22:20] <jcoxon> hehe
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[22:41] <edmoore> night everyone
[22:41] <edmoore> o hair fergusnoble
[22:42] <edmoore> g'night too (again)
[22:42] <edmoore> hai*
[22:42] <fergusnoble> night
[22:45] <fergusnoble> edmoore: what was the model of the acceleroemter before you go to bed
[22:46] <edmoore> Kistler 8792A100
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[23:05] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[23:44] <Laurenceb> wow
[23:45] <Laurenceb> Ive got 50 grams into a 220 by 450Km orbit with a 10Kg GLOW launcher
[23:45] <Laurenceb> just needs 5x1000gram latex balloons to 30Km
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> .o
[23:55] <Laurenceb> hmm verging on possible for £1000 :P
[00:00] --- Fri Jul 10 2009