highaltitude.log.20090624

[00:00] <Laurenceb> actually hydrogen sintering isnt that hard
[00:00] <Laurenceb> hydrogen bown pipe, heat with gas torch
[00:00] <Laurenceb> *down
[00:01] <Laurenceb> but the haber process has very different design considerations
[00:01] <Laurenceb> there may be something better
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> Also you want to check the reaction rates
[00:02] <Laurenceb> yeah
[00:03] <Laurenceb> thermal energy flux into the pipe is fine
[00:03] <Laurenceb> but reaction rat eneeds checking
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> On that topic.
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> I recently discovered dead mice will not flush.
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[00:10] <Laurenceb> hmm iridium catalyst looks good
[00:12] <Laurenceb> of course cost and porosity is way more important
[00:13] <Laurenceb> looks like about 100cm^2 surface area is required
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> cost is pretty irrelevant - yes 1g of Ir is stupidly expensive - but it goes a long way
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> actually - it's not
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> It's only about 10 quid a gram
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> (though yes, that's something insaane like a 3.6mm cube)
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> Iridium tube would certainly solve the concern about it melting in the chamber.
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Iridium-metal-solid-pieces-1g-to-1kg-element-sample_W0QQitemZ390056277266QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad12a7512&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> though you I think wnt finely divided stuff, and I'm nnot sure how you prepare it onto catalyst particles
[00:22] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
[00:23] <Laurenceb> yeah you want something thats easy to prepare
[00:23] <Laurenceb> the iron technique in the haber process is doable
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[00:23] <Laurenceb> and works well as it leaves a very porous structure
[00:24] <Laurenceb> but I'm wonering if theres something easy
[00:24] <Laurenceb> theres so many catalysts :-S
[00:29] <SpeedEvil> find a catalyst maker, ask them?
[00:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.tootoo.com/d-rp12572608-Catalyst_AD_946_Ammonia_Decomposition_Catalyst/
[00:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.pxhq.cn/News_View.asp?NewsID=129
[00:36] <Laurenceb> Surface area,m2/g 1-3 << !!!!
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> yeah - but that's not true once you increase the flow
[00:41] <Laurenceb> unfortunately the space velocity is two orders of mag too small
[00:43] <SpeedEvil> space velocity?
[00:45] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/specialistshop
[00:46] <SpeedEvil> apparantly has access to a furnace capable of melting iridium
[00:46] <SpeedEvil> maybe an interesting contact
[00:47] <Laurenceb> space velocity= volumetric flow/cat volume
[00:47] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/320g-Tantalum-Metal-99-99-Pure-Blue-Beautiful-Element_W0QQitemZ180369308294QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_RocksFossils_Minerals_EH?hash=item29fed93a86&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
[00:47] <Laurenceb> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload/upload/insa/INSA_1/20005baa_485.pdf
[00:47] <SpeedEvil> unsure what tantalums properties re at elevated temps
[00:48] <Laurenceb> ^page 9
[00:49] <Laurenceb> they used 2ml vol of catalyst bed
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[00:50] <Laurenceb> looks like you need >600C
[00:50] <SpeedEvil> http://www.eaglealloys.com/t-MachiningTantalum.aspx
[00:50] Action: SpeedEvil wonders.
[00:51] <Laurenceb> for nozzles?
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> Or for lining
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> I just happened to see the cylinder on ebay, and was wondering
[00:54] <Laurenceb> looks like nickle catalyst is the way to go
[00:55] <Laurenceb> I wonder if you could electroplate onto activated carbon
[01:03] <Laurenceb> cant see why it wouldnt work
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> It's easy to say it should work before the screaming and the running for cover starts.
[01:13] <Laurenceb> tho I dont understand electroplating very well
[01:14] <Laurenceb> it it driven by electric field at small scales?
[01:15] <Laurenceb> hmm the electrolyte acts like a ground plane above the work?
[01:16] Action: Laurenceb doesnt understand
[01:17] <SpeedEvil> It's driven by the reduction of ions of metal in solution.
[01:17] <SpeedEvil> The plated object needs to be enough volts above the electrolyte to cause this
[01:18] <SpeedEvil> levelers act by 'crowding' the surface at points of high current, tending to insulate, and improve 'throw' - which is how much the plating happens round edges
[01:18] <SpeedEvil> If you for example take a smooth copper sheet, and electroplate fromm another smooth copper sheet - at all but the very lowest currents, without additives, you will end up with a copper crystal forest.
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> (which can look quite pretty, but is not a dense copper sheet)
[01:20] <SpeedEvil> I've got a liettle copper tree somewhere - but I can't find it.
[01:22] <Laurenceb> so the electrolyte acts as a conductor
[01:23] <Laurenceb> why do you get the forst then?
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> forst?
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> oh
[01:23] <Laurenceb> forest
[01:24] <SpeedEvil> little inconsistencies in the copper lead to preferntial plating on the high/easy spots
[01:24] <Laurenceb> why?
[01:24] <SpeedEvil> because the electrolyte isn't a perfect conductor
[01:24] <SpeedEvil> And so there is a voltage difference
[01:25] <SpeedEvil> And at places where the field is locally higher, you get preferential plating
[01:26] <Laurenceb> hmm
[01:26] <Laurenceb> so if I take some activated carbon...
[01:26] <Laurenceb> which is a random arrangement of graphite planes
[01:28] <SpeedEvil> http://theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Samples/028.10/s7s.JPG
[01:28] <SpeedEvil> for example
[01:28] <Laurenceb> nice
[01:29] <Laurenceb> so youd want a very low current for activated carbon
[01:29] <Laurenceb> to coat the surface of the graphite planes
[01:33] <SpeedEvil> or brightners/levelers/...
[01:33] <SpeedEvil> but you don't need much
[01:35] <Laurenceb> I'm not quite sure about activated carbon either...
[01:35] <Laurenceb> youd have granules and rely or diffusion to get the gas in there to react
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[01:36] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how hot you have to get the tube for a simple internal plating to work
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[01:38] Action: Laurenceb forgets how to work out diffusion
[01:39] <Laurenceb> mean free path is crazily small at 500psi
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> It's probably proportional to something.
[01:44] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raney_nickel
[01:44] <Laurenceb> mean free path has got to be in there
[01:46] <SpeedEvil> and turbulent/non turbulent flow
[01:47] <Laurenceb> yeah
[01:47] <Laurenceb> inside a granule theres ~0 flow
[01:47] <Laurenceb> as I understand it
[01:48] <Laurenceb> hmm Im not sure activated carbon is useful
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[01:48] Action: SpeedEvil had a similar problem designing a biofilter
[01:49] <Laurenceb> your diffusion limited in/out of the granules
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> Sure - pumice/... may have a surface area of oodles m^2/Kg
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> But you're limited in oxygen transport to the bacteria
[01:51] <Laurenceb> electroplated braid may be feasible
[01:52] <Laurenceb> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload/upload/insa/INSA_1/20005baa_485.pdf
[01:52] <Laurenceb> they use 14mesh granules
[02:01] <SpeedEvil> maybe
[02:03] <Laurenceb> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01395a006
[02:03] <SpeedEvil> sorry - going to sleep :)
[02:03] <SpeedEvil> Night
[02:07] <Laurenceb> cya
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[15:45] <Laurenceb> hi
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> hi
[15:46] <Laurenceb> I came up with another technique for ullage
[15:46] <Laurenceb> methanol reformation
[15:47] <Laurenceb> unfortunately it gives 40% denser gas - CO2/H2 mix
[15:47] <Laurenceb> but the catalysts are much easier - just copper/zinc alloy
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> methanol?
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> Don't you get CO too?
[15:49] <Laurenceb> nickle is good for ammonia, but you need ~1000m
[15:49] <Laurenceb> erm no - methanol/water mix
[15:50] <Laurenceb> decomposition to CO would be endothermic
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Hmm, true.
[15:50] <Laurenceb> havent seen any reference to that
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> 1000m?
[15:50] <Laurenceb> the best off the shelf ammonia catalysts are an order of magnitude too slow
[15:50] <Laurenceb> 1000 square meters of surface
[15:51] <Laurenceb> its possible with activated carbon, but I think you'll be diffusion limited
[15:51] <Laurenceb> nickle plated multiwall carbon nanotubes work
[15:52] <Laurenceb> you can get multiwall tube powder for sane prices
[15:52] <Laurenceb> and youd only need a few grams
[15:52] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure if electroplating would work
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> it does
[15:53] <Laurenceb> still, its not possible to be 100% sure, theres no data at ~800C and 3MPa, apart from with the Haber process catalysts, and they are at least an order of magnitude off
[15:54] Action: SpeedEvil thinks of things with lots of H in.
[15:55] <Laurenceb> theres a few papers where they made stuff on the same scale (20 grams) for fuel cells, and theres a taiwanese experiment where they made on with nickle coated carbon nanotubes
[15:55] <Laurenceb> but they didnt use electroplating - some sort of liquid phase deposition
[15:56] <Laurenceb> incidentally, if this works its perfect for inflating balloons
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> IIRC electroplating has been done for some emissions experiments
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> electron emitters
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> err - why?
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> oh - you mean for height maintainance
[15:57] <Laurenceb> or for on the ground
[15:58] <Laurenceb> but yeah for heigh maintainance itd be good
[15:58] <Laurenceb> well with a superpressure
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> Also - I'd recommend going to a good library, and seeing if you can find the journal of catalysis
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> Or have I recommended this before
[16:00] <Laurenceb> heh
[16:03] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he had nice libraries nearby.
[16:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TF5-4DN9XWP-3&_user=121707&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=938714178&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000009958&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=121707&md5=cd29b9f535bf7d47ada54d87403a180d
[16:04] <Laurenceb> oopps huge url
[16:05] <Laurenceb> can you read that?
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> loading
[16:06] Action: SpeedEvil pauses http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/06/24/funny-pictures-video-kittehs-exercise-wheel/
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> I think not - it's asking me to register
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> are you at a uni IP?
[16:06] <Laurenceb> doh
[16:06] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:14] <Laurenceb> Reaction conditions: catalyst load 0.1 g, NH3 flow 50 ml/min [GHSVNH3 is ca. 30,000 ml/(h gcat)]
[16:15] <Laurenceb> and they got 70% conversion at 600C
[16:15] <Laurenceb> conversion was rapidly increasing with temp but they were limited by their hardware, so ~97% should be possible
[16:16] <Laurenceb> we need about an order of magnitude greater flow, implying 1gram of catalyst
[16:16] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe it works
[16:22] <Laurenceb> oh thats gas phase
[16:22] <Laurenceb> bah it not very possible :/
[16:27] <Laurenceb> state of the art seems to require ~100 grams of catalyst
[16:27] <Laurenceb> maybe 50
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[16:29] <Laurenceb> and by state of the art I mean Ru cauted carbon nanotubes
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> what flow do you nee?
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:30] <Laurenceb> ~ 500ml/sec
[16:30] <Laurenceb> at 3MPa
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> For NH3?
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> oh - gas
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> nitromethane?/
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> too much water I expect
[16:43] <Laurenceb> lovely concoction of nitrous oxide, carbon monozide, hydrogen cyanide
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> Also - IIRC it can go high order - so prolly a bad plan
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[16:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.dunnspace.com/
[16:51] <Laurenceb> hmm peroxide propylene
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> as a pressurant
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking along those lines
[16:52] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> don't you mostly end up with hydrocarbons though - which condense?
[16:52] <Laurenceb> dunno
[16:52] <Laurenceb> I origionally thought of using ammonia in a similar way
[16:53] <Laurenceb> you want to be able to control tank pressure to an extent
[16:53] <Laurenceb> if you have a loop through the combustion chamber to heat something
[16:53] <Laurenceb> that then evaporates to fill the ullage space
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> and condenses - for most stuff though.
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> less you try to insulate
[16:54] <Laurenceb> then it works, but you have two problems, you dont really want to take the ullage temperature over 80C, and you dont want to ullage gas to be too dense
[16:54] <Laurenceb> ammonia works quite well for that
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> nitrous?
[16:55] <Laurenceb> you have quite a bit of control authority
[16:55] <Laurenceb> low density and poor isp
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> as a pressurant
[16:55] <Laurenceb> dense
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> true
[16:56] <Laurenceb> if you can vent the pressurant at burnout and use it as a propellant
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> doesn't that imply a large nozzle, to vent through - to get a reasonable expansion ratio
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> or a tiny throat - implying another whole nozzle
[16:58] <Laurenceb> ooh
[16:58] <Laurenceb> gas phase injection
[16:58] <Laurenceb> have a pipe from ther ullage space
[16:58] <Laurenceb> then a regen chamber...
[16:58] <Laurenceb> hmm nopt sure how the number add up
[16:59] Action: SpeedEvil ponders the use of powertools to dissect a mango.
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> A screw into the kernel should make it much more stable when cutting.
[17:00] <Laurenceb> a amngo?!
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[17:02] Action: SpeedEvil is applying science to reduce mess!
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> Or that's the theory.
[17:02] <Laurenceb> http://www37.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=methylacetylene
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Why over propane?
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Or propene
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> err
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> no, propane
[17:07] <Laurenceb> yeah propane is easier, and similar vapour pressure
[17:08] <Laurenceb> liquid is lower density than kerosene
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> I thought you were siill meaning for a pressurant
[17:09] <Laurenceb> hmm
[17:09] <Laurenceb> gas is too dense
[17:10] <Laurenceb> if you can use it as fuel as well, and inject as gas phase
[17:10] <Laurenceb> its different
[17:14] <Laurenceb> theres 1.5Kg of propane in your ullage at burnout !
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> methane would be a bit less - bit it's a moderate cryogen
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> LiH would be nice - if not for being solid.
[17:17] <Laurenceb> http://www98.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=ammonia
[17:18] <Laurenceb> you could fill the ullage with ammonia
[17:18] <Laurenceb> ~600 grams
[17:18] <Laurenceb> and you only need to heat to ~80C
[17:19] <Laurenceb> I wonder if you could burn it somehow
[17:20] <Laurenceb> 600 grams is as heavy as the nozzle :-/
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> you can burn methane easily. Though it raises the obvious issue
[17:25] <Laurenceb> http://www98.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=methane
[17:25] <Laurenceb> that is not nice
[17:26] Action: Laurenceb ponders cracking of kerosene
[17:30] <Laurenceb> wont produce anything light enough
[17:34] <Laurenceb> NH3 and LiAlH4 works
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[17:38] <Laurenceb> lithium + acid?
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> You end up with the solid/liquid though
[17:39] <Laurenceb> dump it somewhere
[17:40] <Laurenceb> nah way too heavy
[17:40] <Laurenceb> methanol/water looks the best
[17:45] <Laurenceb> but again the catalysts are too slow
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> hydrazine!
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:52] <Laurenceb> what does that decompose to?
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> dunno - it's basically everything an ideal rocket fuel is.
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Storable, carcinogenic, mutagenic, ...
[17:53] <Laurenceb> Hydrazine can be synthesized from ammonia and hydrogen peroxide in the Puck process, according to the following formula:
[17:53] <Laurenceb> 2NH3 + H2O2 . H2N-NH2 + 2H2O [12]
[17:53] <Laurenceb> muha
[17:55] <Laurenceb> ah and decomposes to nitrogen and hydrogen
[17:56] <Laurenceb> not too bad, wonder if you could integrate the Puck process and the decomposition into one decive
[17:56] <Laurenceb> *device
[17:58] <Laurenceb> hmm appears to be burning ammonia directy in hydrogen peroxide, looks promising
[17:58] <Laurenceb> this was my origional idea for ammonia, the overall reaction is energetically good, but I wasnt sure it would happen
[17:59] <Laurenceb> - ammoina and HTP -> wateer, nitrogen, hydrogen
[18:01] <natrium42> HTTP?
[18:02] <Laurenceb> high test peroxide
[18:02] <natrium42> ah :(
[18:02] Nick change: Fighter|sleep -> Fighter1405
[18:03] <Fighter1405> Hey natrium42 :)
[18:03] <natrium42> ohi
[18:03] <Fighter1405> How ya doing?
[18:04] <natrium42> good, need some coffee :)
[18:04] <natrium42> and you?
[18:04] <Fighter1405> I'm great thanks, loving the weather
[18:04] <natrium42> going to italy next week
[18:04] <natrium42> for almost a month
[18:04] <Fighter1405> Ah nice, that should be good. Where are you visiting?
[18:05] <natrium42> it gives enough time to visit most of the country
[18:05] <Fighter1405> Hehe, I suppose so
[18:05] <natrium42> we are going to rent a van etc
[18:05] <Fighter1405> Neat, you should get to see most of it then
[18:06] <Fighter1405> Seeing pompeii and so on?
[18:07] <natrium42> yes, rome, venice, sicily
[18:07] <Fighter1405> Great
[18:07] <Fighter1405> I've been to venice once, and will see some of rome later this summer
[18:07] <natrium42> cool, did you like it?
[18:08] <Fighter1405> Venice was great yes :)
[18:08] <Fighter1405> Gondola rides are expensive though :(
[18:09] <Laurenceb> cya all
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[18:09] <Fighter1405> Do I take it from your question the other day that the GPS units have small solder pins?
[18:13] <natrium42> some do, not sure which one you'll get yet
[18:15] <Fighter1405> ok :) I can probably borrow a better soldering iron if need be so it should be fine however
[18:22] <Fighter1405> Thanks again
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[18:37] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:40] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[18:41] <Fighter1405> hey jcoxon
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[19:39] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: lithium borohydride +water
[19:40] <Laurenceb> about 390 grams total mass
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[19:41] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> you do what - spray the water into a container?
[19:44] <Laurenceb> apparently not
[19:44] <Laurenceb> annoyingly the reaction is slow
[19:44] <Laurenceb> but in gas phase it may be different
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Umm
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> LiBH is a solid surely?
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> oh- you mean steam
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> does the stuff change in ways tht will make the steam not get through though
[19:46] <Laurenceb> you can dissolve it in water
[19:46] <Laurenceb> then shove it through a coil
[19:47] <Laurenceb> its LiBH4
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[19:50] <edmoore> evening all
[20:00] <DanielRichman> Hello
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[21:04] <AlexBreton> hi all
[21:04] <AlexBreton> sbasuita, DanielRichman, what's hanging?
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[21:07] <AlexBreton> sbasuita, what did I miss in chemistry?
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[21:08] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, looks like wheeler is taking us for the rest of the term :)
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[21:08] <AlexBreton> tasty
[21:08] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, we did experiments all lesson
[21:08] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, formal write up next lesson
[21:08] <AlexBreton> nice
[21:09] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, so you're good
[21:09] <AlexBreton> interesting ones?
[21:09] <Xenion> Guten Abend / Good Evening folks ! :-)
[21:09] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, also bring your lab coat from now on cause wheeler says we're doing loads of practicals and he'll rage
[21:09] <AlexBreton> or making bubbles?
[21:09] <AlexBreton> OK
[21:09] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, reaction of stuff with acids
[21:09] <AlexBreton> lesson friday ?
[21:09] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, notes on friday
[21:09] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, in LR
[21:09] <AlexBreton> ah so no practical
[21:09] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, how was drama?
[21:11] <AlexBreton> went well-apparently we're set for a decent mark
[21:11] <AlexBreton> sountracks by me are epic
[21:11] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, soundtracks?
[21:11] <AlexBreton> aye, music and sound effects
[21:11] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, cool
[21:11] <AlexBreton> composed the music myself, jacked the effects of iTunes
[21:11] <sbasuita> ; P
[21:12] <AlexBreton> missing all of tomorrow
[21:12] <AlexBreton> for the drama exams
[21:12] <AlexBreton> so have fun in biology :P
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[21:16] <AlexBreton> sbasuita, what was the bio hw?
[21:21] <AlexBreton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scat_Air
[21:21] <AlexBreton> trust Kazakhstan to come up with that
[21:30] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, don't think we got any
[21:30] <AlexBreton> I think we did
[21:30] <AlexBreton> check ;-)
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[22:21] <AlexBreton> gnite
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[22:27] Nick change: Fighter1405 -> Fighter|sleep
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[23:38] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ping
[23:42] Action: SpeedEvil rings with a bell-like tone.
[23:42] <Laurenceb> hello
[23:43] <Laurenceb> it looks like LiBH4 works in theory
[23:43] <Laurenceb> problem is you have to heat it to 600C and react with steam
[23:43] <Laurenceb> but sure how to do that one :-/
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> is it exothermic?
[23:44] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:45] <Laurenceb> unfortunately the reaction may be reversible
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> electric preheat, regenerator on the exhaust of the catalyst to boil incoming water/
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> :/
[23:46] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe you can do it with a He tank
[23:46] <Laurenceb> but thats about 1Kg at least
[23:48] <Laurenceb> there is the approach of using a liquid gas
[23:49] <Laurenceb> you really want it to be storable, but it only has to be storable on the balloon, you can load onto the rocket just before launch
[23:49] <Laurenceb> then you pass the liquid through a heater and into the ullage space to raise the pressure
[23:49] <Laurenceb> liquid methane works well
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> or you don't bother about storable, you just carry on topping it off and let it boil off
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> What's the temperature of methane at 2000PSI?
[23:52] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
[23:53] <Laurenceb> its in a supercritical state
[23:58] <SpeedEvil> ah yes
[00:00] --- Thu Jun 25 2009