highaltitude.log.20090614

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[00:03] <Laurenceb> SCL is always low for some reason
[00:03] <Laurenceb> god I hate this ublox5
[00:09] <natrium42> Laurenceb, if it's comforting to you in any way: it hates you too
[00:10] <Laurenceb> heh
[00:10] <Laurenceb> it would help if the docs bore any relation to the way it actually works
[00:10] <Laurenceb> maybe I need to run the clock at a different speed
[00:23] <Laurenceb> I think its the ublox firmware not mine
[01:20] <Laurenceb> hmm it seems to be a hardware issue... think its something to do with the multilayer pcb the ublox5 uses
[01:38] Nick change: Fighter1405 -> Fighter|away
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[02:35] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
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[02:39] <fuzzylugnuts> Hey
[02:40] <fuzzylugnuts> linxtechnologies came out with a little gps reciever
[02:40] <fuzzylugnuts> RXM-GPS-SR
[02:40] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.linxtechnologies.com/Products/RF-Modules/SR-Series-GPS-Receiver-Module/
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[07:11] <kleinjt_> the datasheet lists the maximum altitude as 60k feet
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[07:40] <jcoxon> morning
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[09:15] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, did you fix your windows eventually?
[09:16] <Laurenceb> nope
[09:16] <DanielRichman> :(
[09:16] <Laurenceb> going to have to reformat
[09:16] <DanielRichman> ah
[09:16] <DanielRichman> shame
[09:16] <DanielRichman> Have McAffee not even released a fix?
[09:17] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure that was the problem
[09:18] <Laurenceb> havent really looked into it that much, trying to get the UM12 tst hab working
[09:18] <Laurenceb> I'm coning to suspect that ublox do some very weird contortions with the I2C spec
[09:18] <DanielRichman> Manufacturers are such a pain
[09:18] <Laurenceb> ublox5 seems to run an RTOS that isnt very real time
[09:19] <DanielRichman> lol
[09:19] <Laurenceb> upto about 500ms latency on incoming commands
[09:19] <Laurenceb> position latency is <200ms which is very nice
[09:20] <Laurenceb> they have an application note on using the I2C but its along the lines of you should allow this... ect
[09:20] <Laurenceb> doesnt explain how they actually implemented it
[09:21] <DanielRichman> hmm
[09:21] <Laurenceb> I belive they hold SCL low - its allowed by the specs, but very annoying
[09:21] <DanielRichman> Did you say you needed windows for winavr or something else?
[09:21] <Laurenceb> yeah
[09:21] <Laurenceb> well for AVROSPII
[09:21] <DanielRichman> oh? 'cause winavr has gcc & avrdude as its backend
[09:22] <Laurenceb> I borrowed someones laptop - my programmer works fine, theres issues with avrdude thats all
[09:22] <DanielRichman> so you should be able to get ubuntu to do it
[09:22] <Laurenceb> not avrdude
[09:22] <Laurenceb> oh sorry - avr studio, not winavr
[09:22] <DanielRichman> ahh
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[09:22] <Laurenceb> avrdude has crappy support for the avr910 protocol
[09:23] <DanielRichman> I see
[09:23] <Laurenceb> apparently some config files are messed up
[09:23] <Laurenceb> theres various fixes... but I couldnt work it out
[09:23] <Laurenceb> worked straight off with AVROSPII on winxp tho
[09:23] <DanielRichman> good
[09:24] <Laurenceb> I'm presently trying to work out the ublox5
[09:24] <DanielRichman> what exactly IS an ublox?
[09:24] <Laurenceb> it gives me half a packet then a bunch of 0xFF then another packet
[09:24] <Laurenceb> its a gps receiver
[09:24] <Laurenceb> a very nice one
[09:24] <DanielRichman> just a gps receiver on its own?
[09:25] <Laurenceb> I'm using http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8889
[09:25] <cuddykid_> Hi all, another noob question!! Would the yaesu ft-817 radio work for HAB or does it have to be the ft-817nd?
[09:25] <jcoxon> an 817 would be fine
[09:25] <jcoxon> very nice radio
[09:26] <jcoxon> not cheap though
[09:26] <DanielRichman> Wow looks very nice
[09:26] <Laurenceb> I suspect theres some sort of scheduling thing going on with the onboard RTOS
[09:26] <cuddykid_> thanks jcoxon!
[09:26] <Laurenceb> and it tried to delay me by holding SCL low whilst it prepares then packet properly
[09:27] <cuddykid_> I'm watching one on ebay so hopefully i might get a bargain :)
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[09:28] <Laurenceb> it lets you acess internal register over I2C, as well as having a uart
[09:28] <Laurenceb> you can really cut down on the latency
[09:28] <Laurenceb> - set it to 4Hz, set the airborne filter and use I2C
[09:28] <DanielRichman> When it's only giving updates 4 times a second, is latency a big issue?
[09:29] <Laurenceb> the less the better when its on a UAV
[09:29] <DanielRichman> true
[09:29] <DanielRichman> "Whether this receiver is in your pocket or under your car seat, you are likely to pickup a rock solid GPS signal."
[09:29] <Laurenceb> not true
[09:29] <Laurenceb> I can only get sats on the top floor
[09:30] <DanielRichman> buildings don't count ;)
[09:30] <Laurenceb> gets a lock in 30S outside
[09:30] <DanielRichman> very good
[09:31] <Laurenceb> sometimes gets a sat or two on my desk, but theres 4 floors of reinforced concrete above me
[09:31] <DanielRichman> that's pretty damn good, to be fair
[09:31] <Laurenceb> yeah way better than lassen iq
[09:32] <jcoxon> ublox are quite superior
[09:32] Action: jcoxon has 2 ublox 4s
[09:32] <Laurenceb> 5H >> 4s :D
[09:32] <jcoxon> yeah but i didn't pay for mine :-p
[09:32] <Laurenceb> heh
[09:34] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, you mentioned the lassen's gps antenna yesterday
[09:34] <DanielRichman> which way up is it meant to go?
[09:34] <Laurenceb> the metal enclosure is down
[09:35] <Laurenceb> thats the low noise amplifer
[09:35] <DanielRichman> and the square pad with a blob in the middle is up??
[09:35] <Laurenceb> yeah
[09:35] <DanielRichman> got it, thx
[09:35] <jcoxon> yeah, in the picture its the right way up
[09:35] <Laurenceb> thats the antenna, be careful not to touch the center
[09:35] <Laurenceb> LNAs are easy to fry
[09:35] <Laurenceb> I wrap mine in antistatic plastic
[09:36] <DanielRichman> And if its fried it doesn't work at all
[09:36] <Laurenceb> correct
[09:36] <DanielRichman> good, so I haven't fried it yet :)
[09:36] Action: DanielRichman grabs antistatic bag
[09:37] <Laurenceb> arrggg this is seriously wacky
[09:38] <Laurenceb> last 10 bytes of every packet are lost, then it collides with the next packet
[09:38] <Laurenceb> after a bunch of 0xFF
[09:38] <DanielRichman> collides?
[09:38] <Laurenceb> its gone
[09:39] <Laurenceb> and packet n+1 is in addresses where packet n should be ending
[09:40] <DanielRichman> :o
[09:41] <jcoxon> silly usb
[09:41] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, how quick is dirty spi interfacing with a sd card?
[09:42] <Laurenceb> I've never done it without a complete library
[09:42] <Laurenceb> as I understand it quite easy
[09:42] <Laurenceb> theres lots of examples
[09:42] <jcoxon> remeber my sstv payload?
[09:43] <Laurenceb> I've always use a full FAT32 library, which isnt too hard if you get something thats been put together well
[09:43] <Laurenceb> yeah
[09:43] <jcoxon> where as i was grabbing the images directly i couldn't save them onto the camera's memory and so had to only temporary store them
[09:43] <jcoxon> just trying to work out a method of storage with my gumstix
[09:44] <Laurenceb> so grab them off the sd card?
[09:44] <jcoxon> old powershot cameras have a mode which allows you to control them over usb
[09:44] <jcoxon> and the image is downloaded directly over usb
[09:45] <jcoxon> i then did hte processing on hte gumstix to make it a nice sstv image etc
[09:45] <Laurenceb> so why the sd card?
[09:45] <jcoxon> well i don't have that much storage on my gumstix
[09:45] <jcoxon> so have to delete the file after i send it
[09:45] <jcoxon> for space for the next image
[09:46] <jcoxon> and i've got spi spare on my gumstix
[09:46] <jcoxon> but images aren't text log files
[09:46] <Laurenceb> oh, and gumsticks uses a full sd interface?
[09:46] <Laurenceb> rather than spi?
[09:46] <jcoxon> i'd be adding an sd card
[09:46] <jcoxon> wondering how fast spi would be
[09:46] <Laurenceb> yeah, but how is the existing one interfaced?
[09:47] <Laurenceb> is it on an spi?
[09:47] <jcoxon> good point
[09:48] <jcoxon> i could pull out another usb port and use a usb stick
[09:48] <Laurenceb> it may be on a proper SD interface
[09:48] <Laurenceb> arrgggg
[09:48] Action: Laurenceb reads the ublox application note
[09:49] <Laurenceb> "pending tasks may require more time to process in the background, clock stretching should be supported"
[09:49] <Laurenceb> ffs
[09:50] <Laurenceb> I hope they didnt use bit banging, that would really suck
[09:51] <jcoxon> hmmm the sd card interface it brought out on a connector i wasn't planning to tap
[09:52] <jcoxon> its going to be usb me thinks
[09:52] <jcoxon> oh well
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[11:46] <Laurenceb> doh
[11:47] <Laurenceb> discovered what the problem with the ublox is - rfi from the UM12
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> :) :(
[11:52] Action: Laurenceb goes and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OnvOOykEh8
[11:54] Nick change: Fighter|away -> Fighter1405
[11:54] <Fighter1405> Morning all
[11:58] <Laurenceb> how do you restore from the recycle bin in ubuntu?
[12:00] Action: sbasuita doesn't bother with the recycle bin
[12:01] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, I bet #ubuntu knows
[12:03] <Fighter1405> By the sounds of it a camera like this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CANON-POWERSHOT-A530-FAULTY_W0QQitemZ220432603631QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Digital_Cameras?hash=item3352ce99ef&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 would work fine as we only need the camera setting?
[12:06] <sbasuita> "SOME SETTINGS ARE FAULTY" ?
[12:06] <sbasuita> Would be nice to know which ones and wh
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> Smashed LCD cameras are often good
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> At least -- if you've got an identical camera, so you can dummy through the menus
[12:07] <Fighter1405> Some settings to me means changing the mode and so on I suppose
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> it may mean - for example - a broken mode button, forex
[12:07] <Fighter1405> I'll see what happens to the price, if it stays there it's worth it for that :p
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[12:25] <Fighter1405> Lost it :(
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> why only 6.50?
[12:30] <Fighter1405> Eh, I didn't put in a max bid and someone else did :(
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:30] <Fighter1405> Plus I have no idea what a faulty one is worth
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> I thought youw ere bidding for it
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> It's worth whatever it's worth
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> First thing to do in that sort of situation, is to mail the seller, and ask what the fault is
[12:31] <Fighter1405> That depends very much on what others sell for though
[12:31] <Fighter1405> True, only found it 20 minutes before :p
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> also - chdk can do a fair amount if the buttons are just broke
[12:38] Nick change: Fighter1405 -> Fighter|lunch
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[13:29] Nick change: Fighter|lunch -> Fighter1405
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[13:55] <Fighter1405> Has anyone tried using a Nokia 3100?
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> basically - if you can talk to it easily over serial - it should work
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> (though there are caveats about temperature and stuff of course)
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> GSM modules are quite inexpensive
[13:58] <Hiena> Fighter1405, i used 5110 and 3110 for communication purpose.
[13:58] <Fighter1405> SpeedEvil: any reccomended GSM modules that are easy to use?
[13:59] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, guess 5k HUF is much more inexpesive than 20k HUF.
[14:00] <Hiena> Not to mention, possible to gut some extra parts from them. For a gsm modem mode unnecessary the display the microphone, the vibromotor, etc.
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> HUF?
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> I've used http://www.sureelectronics.net/search.php?encode=YTozOntzOjg6ImtleXdvcmRzIjtzOjM6IkdTTSI7czo4OiJjYXRlZ29yeSI7czoxOiIwIjtzOjE4OiJzZWFyY2hfZW5jb2RlX3RpbWUiO2k6MTI0NDk4NDY2ODt9
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> in the past
[14:05] <Fighter1405> Stock:0 :(
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> UK
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> ?
[14:06] <Fighter1405> Yes
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=1004107+500006&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=GSM&Ntx=
[14:07] <Fighter1405> Thanks
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> 'embedded tcp/ip stack' means you can easily send and recieve over the internet with GPRS using simple AT commands
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> you don't have to implement ppp, as you normally would
[14:12] <sbasuita> I wouldn't call them inexpensive
[14:13] <sbasuita> Get an old, cheap, mobile phone off ebay
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> 20 quid or so isn't expensivve
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19634 I have one of these - but I suspect that link won't work
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> DX seems down
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[14:59] <Fighter1405> If I did just get an old phone of ebay, any that would be reccomended?
[15:02] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, laurenceb flew the ericsson t68i and we're going to fly one as well
[15:02] <Fighter1405> Easy to interface with?
[15:02] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, got a UART on the bottom, standard AT commands
[15:03] <Fighter1405> Got it
[15:03] <Fighter1405> Did you use this cable: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/dcu-11-usb-cable-CD-for-sony-ericsson-T39m-T60-T66-T68i_W0QQitemZ250441052524QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccesories_MobilePhoneDataCables_JN?hash=item3a4f73316c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1690|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A2|294%3A50
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> You can't use USB on most microcontrollers
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> At least not - usb host - you need a phone that outputs a 'real' serial interface.
[15:10] <Fighter1405> I was planning on stripping it and using it for easier pin connections
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> If the cable converts from serial-USB inside - you're fine, and can cut the cable
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> If the phone does the serial-USB in the chipset, you're not
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> just the dumb cable won'thelp
[15:11] <Fighter1405> "the t68i, which was so old that it had no usb capabilities and the UART was exposed on the bottom  so we could hook it up to our circuit easily."
[15:11] <Fighter1405> That sound ok?
[15:12] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, the image off ebay looks about right, but you'd have to ask daniel cause he bought it
[15:12] <Fighter1405> ok
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[15:39] <fergusnoble> hallam: whats cracking?
[15:40] <Fighter1405> Nokia 3100 - UART?
[15:45] <hallam> hey fergusnoble
[15:45] <hallam> filling out visa forms
[15:45] <hallam> how are you?
[15:45] <fergusnoble> hallam: it came through then?
[15:45] <fergusnoble> good thanks, you?
[15:47] <hallam> fergusnoble: no, not yet, but I'm getting the forms ready just in case, and Intel are bugging me about forms for their visa (much of which are the same forms)
[15:47] <hallam> as much as I feel bad about it, I think it's in my interest to keep going with the Intel one until I have confirmation of the H-1B
[15:47] <fergusnoble> ok, yeah
[15:51] <Fighter1405> Does the 3100 even support AT commands? Looks like FBUS only
[15:52] <hallam> http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-38202.html doesn't sound too promising
[15:52] <hallam> FBUS can be made to work. It's just kind of flaky in my experience. Maybe I was doing something wrong.
[15:54] <Fighter1405> Dang :( Maybe I should just find a new phone :p
[15:55] <sbasuita> Everybody has old phones knocking about...
[15:56] <Fighter1405> Yeah, I have a 3100, an even older Nokia and a Razr which I'd rather not fly :p
[16:02] <hallam> "9. List all countries you have entered in the last 10 years. Give the dates of each visit."
[16:02] <hallam> and you get a 8cm x 1.5cm box to put them in
[16:03] <fergusnoble> hehe
[16:03] Action: SpeedEvil passes hallam a microfiche printer
[16:05] <fergusnoble> hallam: ive started the adgercub
[16:05] <fergusnoble> *badgercub
[16:05] <hallam> sweet
[16:05] <fergusnoble> its shaping up quite nicely
[16:06] <hallam> does it get a cute baby badger graphic?
[16:06] <fergusnoble> making it the same size as the sparkfun 820mah lipo
[16:06] <fergusnoble> oh for sure
[16:06] <fergusnoble> infact, if anyone wants to have a go at making a badger cub logo that would be awesome
[16:06] <hallam> I'd go for the 2Ah lipo, long battery life is nice
[16:07] <fergusnoble> well i reckon its only going to draw 60mA or so
[16:07] <fergusnoble> so thats still quite long life with the 820
[16:07] <hallam> it's cool if it can last overnight though
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> A mode where it broadcast less frequently would also help lots that way
[16:07] <hallam> that's true but can lead to issues if that mode activates when you don't want it to
[16:08] <hallam> will you include a max1555?
[16:08] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: im basing it around the CC1111 from TI
[16:08] <fergusnoble> looks like an interesting chip
[16:09] <fergusnoble> yeah was going to include charging
[16:09] <fergusnoble> its going to have a usb port anyway
[16:09] <fergusnoble> the CC1111 has usb and example code to make a usb-serial device
[16:09] <fergusnoble> so can just charge through usb too
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> hallam: I was assuming something like on for 6 hours continuously, AND battery under 50% AND GPS under 5000m AND speed under 10m/s
[16:11] <hallam> fergusnoble: oh very nice
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> cc1111 is what
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> a tranciever?
[16:12] <fergusnoble> its a tiny 10mW radio with an 8051 on board
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:12] <hallam> SpeedEvil: yeah. But in practice you get situations where the GPS loses lock for some reason and you want to foxhunt it, but it decides to go into power-conserve mode
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> hallam: I was mainly eaning for powersave - you'd turn GPS off.
[16:13] <fergusnoble> meh, you still get 12hours from the 820 lipo
[16:13] <fergusnoble> should be enough
[16:13] <fergusnoble> you could always shut off the gps when you are on the ground
[16:13] <fergusnoble> that will save you 30ma or so
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> and just keep broadcasting the same position
[16:14] <hallam> there's nothing stopping you sizing it for the 820 lipo but putting it on a 2Ah lipo
[16:15] Action: SpeedEvil ponders other sensors
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> doing 1-wire?
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> 'simple' capacitive humidity sensors aren't too bad.
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> (I'm planning on getting a dozenish)
[16:17] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: this was going to e a real bare bones tracker
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> :) Sorry.
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> And I saw this really neat optical mouse sensor that's only a quid!
[16:18] <fergusnoble> i might break out an spi and some gpio to solder pads so extra things could be hacked on
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> (though that's probably more handy for laurencb's stuff)
[16:18] <fergusnoble> the difficult decision is weather to put on a pyro channel or not
[16:19] <hallam> I think it probably is a good idea
[16:19] <hallam> we don't always have to use it
[16:19] <fergusnoble> yeah i agree
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> There are SOT23 FETs that are quite adequeat for that
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> A SOT23 pad is a tiny cost
[16:19] <fergusnoble> it would make it quite a it more useful
[16:19] <hallam> I think it was the IRF7910 that I like
[16:19] <fergusnoble> hallam: what is so good about it?
[16:20] <hallam> it's tiny, dual channel, really low gate threshold voltage
[16:20] <hallam> just works nicely
[16:20] <fergusnoble> ok
[16:20] <fergusnoble> im not sure if so8 counts as tiny anymore
[16:20] <fergusnoble> but yeah
[16:21] <hallam> it can be hard to find fets that will pass a decent current with 2.7V on the gate
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - farnell had a list of about a dozen
[16:21] <hallam> it's a lot smaller than the cutdown modules we've used on the recent novas!
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> the couple I posted were teh only ones tht weren't in waacky SMD packages, or ordered from the states for 15 quid per order
[16:22] <fergusnoble> yeah
[16:22] <fergusnoble> ok, ill go for it
[16:22] <fergusnoble> can have two channels then too
[16:22] <fergusnoble> which might be handy
[16:23] <hallam> yep
[16:23] <fergusnoble> what do you guys think for a programming connector?
[16:23] <fergusnoble> it needs to be 3 pin
[16:23] <hallam> molex
[16:23] <fergusnoble> but im loathed to use a .1" pin header
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Does it not program over USB?
[16:23] <fergusnoble> it would be the biggest thing on the board and is hardly used
[16:23] <hallam> the smaller ones are too breakage-prone for something that's going to be plugged and replugged repeatedly, in the field
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> you can use pin-jacks
[16:24] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: unfortunately not
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> the ones used in bed-of-nails testers - and pads on the board
[16:24] <hallam> well
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> if it can be programmed once, then over USB
[16:24] <fergusnoble> hallam: I imagine it wont be programmed to often
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> if it's needed for every reprogramming, that's probably a bit awkward
[16:24] <hallam> I guess any prelaunch config / postlaunch download can be done over the usb
[16:25] <fergusnoble> not sure if it is possible to write a usb bootloader, but it looks like it might be
[16:25] <fergusnoble> there is something to do with only being able to erase flash if your code is running from ram
[16:25] <hallam> but from past experience we've almost always needed to program the old nova trackers and badger
[16:25] <hallam> how about a 1mm pitch header?
[16:26] <fergusnoble> hallam: true but i was hoping we could come up with some firmware which is general purpose
[16:26] <fergusnoble> and loads a config over usb or something
[16:26] <hallam> I know, I agree that's a good goal and would be nice
[16:26] <fergusnoble> 1mm header would be ok
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=pin+probe&_sacat=See-All-Categories
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> those I mean
[16:26] <hallam> but in practice it often doesn't work out like that
[16:26] <fergusnoble> hallam: true :)
[16:26] <hallam> unless it really can be properly bootloaded
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> you make up a little fixture that you press the board into, and it aligns the pads against the pins
[16:27] <hallam> and sometimes even then
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> but for this - 1mm header is probably sane
[16:27] <fergusnoble> hallam: what about that connector used for that older gps?
[16:27] <fergusnoble> was it the gm406?
[16:28] <hallam> the one on the bag of moneys?
[16:29] <fergusnoble> yeah
[16:29] <hallam> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8621
[16:29] <fergusnoble> i guess a .1" isnt too ad really
[16:29] <hallam> that was a smaller-than-usual pin connector, I think 2mm
[16:30] <hallam> if you meant the em-406 with the patch antenna, I experimented with using those connectors for programming before
[16:30] <fergusnoble> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=579
[16:30] <hallam> we have some
[16:30] <fergusnoble> yeah i mean the em406
[16:30] <hallam> but I think they're too easy to damage
[16:30] <fergusnoble> ok
[16:31] <hallam> and the cables are inconveniently short, and you can't make up new cables without a lot of trouble
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> There are also board-edge-connectors
[16:31] <hallam> a bastardised USB connector can work, small and robust
[16:31] <fergusnoble> yeah, i was thinking we could splice one of the remade cable ends onto the programmer
[16:31] <fergusnoble> yeah, thats true
[16:32] <hallam> just try to make it not fuck if you accidentally plug USB into it
[16:32] <fergusnoble> but it might e too easy to confuse with a real us connector
[16:32] <hallam> if you leave the +5V pin disconnected it should be ok
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> Can you make it so you pin-strap it so that if you connect a jumper, it's USB, else it's programmer?
[16:32] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: not a ad idea at all
[16:33] <fergusnoble> how bad is it to run the us signals through a jumper though?
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> Not - for 12mbps
[16:33] <fergusnoble> ok
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> for 480, it's bad.
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> For 12, you can get away with a hell of a lot
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> For 1.5, even more
[16:33] <hallam> but jumpers take up as much space than a 0.1in connector
[16:34] <hallam> as*
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> point
[16:34] <hallam> I'd just shove a second miniusb on there and not connect the +5
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> Do the program pins usually tristate?
[16:34] Action: SpeedEvil should prolly look at the datasheet
[16:35] <fergusnoble> yeah, i think so
[16:35] <fergusnoble> they can e used as gpio
[16:35] <fergusnoble> not sure what triggers it into programming mode
[16:37] <fergusnoble> but it would be nice to be able to debug the usb
[16:37] <fergusnoble> hallam: im tempted to go for 4 layer
[16:37] <fergusnoble> do you see any reason why not to?
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> expense
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> but - it's hard to layout dense chips sometimes - is this one that bad?
[16:41] <hallam> fergusnoble: go for it
[16:41] <hallam> we can afford it
[16:41] <hallam> and it makes it faster to design
[16:41] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: it could be done on 2 layer but it would be a pain
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> debug mode... entered by 2 rising... reset low
[16:42] <hallam> we should get a panel of them done at goldphoenix and then sell them near cost to ballooning newbies
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> p70
[16:42] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about something simple.
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> No battery = debug mode
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> battery = USB mode
[16:42] <Fighter1405> This radio will work? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290323329976&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
[16:43] <fergusnoble> Fighter1405: yup
[16:43] <fergusnoble> Fighter1405: thats whar rjharrison uses and jcoxon has also got one
[16:43] <Fighter1405> Great, I'll see if I can get that one if it doesn't go too high then
[16:43] <Fighter1405> Good :)
[16:43] Action: SpeedEvil looks for status of D+ and D- pins on reset
[16:44] <fergusnoble> hallam: thats what i was thinking
[16:44] <fergusnoble> i bet people would be interested in a small, cheap, integrated tracker
[16:45] <fergusnoble> and a gp panel would be lots of boards
[16:46] <fergusnoble> more than 50
[16:47] <Fighter1405> fergusnoble: how much do they tend to go for?
[16:47] <fergusnoble> Fighter1405: not sure, ive not looked myself
[16:47] <Fighter1405> ok, np
[16:49] <hallam> Fighter1405: that's a pretty nice transreceiver
[16:49] <Fighter1405> I put in a bid at £100, I'll see what happens to it
[16:49] <sbasuita> that thing is v. nice
[16:50] <Fighter1405> I remember jcoxon saying £100 was about right :p
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> Fighter1405: never bid
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> Fighter1405: always snipe at the last 5 seconds
[16:51] <Fighter1405> Sniping never works for me, I always seem to lose it
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> Fighter1405: bidding gives people too much chance to rethink that they really meant 105 pounds, not 100 pounds
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> If you've set it up properly - it actually bids - you can't.
[16:52] <Fighter1405> Oh, you use software to do it?
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> As you can never lose it when you would have won it with a bid. But the opposite applies
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> esniper - linux console - or joybidder - FF extension
[16:52] <fergusnoble> Fighter1405: good tip for sniping is if you were going to bid say £100, put in like £100.12
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> there are also web services
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> IIRC it's got to be a bid increment above
[16:52] <fergusnoble> if someone else has gone for the round number then you still get it :)
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> so 101
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> IIRC the bid increment for 100 is 100.20 - so youwouldn't in that case
[16:53] <Fighter1405> Hah, someone already outbid me on the radio :p
[16:53] <Fighter1405> So it doesn't matter
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> The problem is someone else bids 95 5 min before. They then have 5 min to sit and stare and convince themselves that for 5 quid more...
[16:54] <Fighter1405> Worth setting it up to try to snipe at £105? I can't believe it won't go up any more
[16:55] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, congratulations on inflating the price 30% ;)
[16:55] <Fighter1405> I know :(
[16:55] <hallam> Fighter1405: I really doubt that'll go much below 200 gbp
[16:55] <Fighter1405> Hmm, ok
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> The key is to not be in a hurry.
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> And work out what it's worth to you.
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> And to look at the sellers prior history.
[16:56] <hallam> retail is 400+
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> Then keep setting snipes on all suitable upcoming radios at what they're worth for you
[16:56] Action: SpeedEvil hates datasheets with no contents page
[16:57] <Fighter1405> Doesn't seem common that they come up on ebay
[16:58] <Fighter1405> What's it have over this one? http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/second-hand-yaesu-ft790-p-1741.html
[16:58] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, more bands
[16:58] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, more recent model
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> fergusnoble: thought was - battery voltage connected to reset pin - if it's zero - reset - this enables the D+ and D- lines to be paralleled with the programming lines. If it's not zero, then it boots as normal, disables the GPIO on the programming lines (or tristates it) and enables USB. Just remove te battery, and plug in a special USB cable to program
[16:59] <Fighter1405> Nothing I need then sbasuita
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> But I can't see if the USB pins are tristated if not enabled.
[16:59] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, more power transmit
[16:59] <Fighter1405> Not using it to transmit either
[16:59] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-146-165-194.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:59] <jcoxon> hey all
[16:59] <sbasuita> hi jcoxon
[16:59] <Fighter1405> Hey
[16:59] <sbasuita> how much do you think http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290323329976&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching will go for?
[17:00] <jcoxon> hmmmm 350
[17:00] <Fighter1405> wow ok
[17:00] <fergusnoble> Fighter1405: the FT790 has had a lot of use from the allooning community and is a great bit of kit
[17:00] <fergusnoble> but is quite basic and old fashioned
[17:01] <Fighter1405> Yah, a lot less than 350 as well
[17:01] <fergusnoble> the 817 is nice if you can stretch to it
[17:01] <Fighter1405> What more does it offer?
[17:01] <fergusnoble> the 790 is just as sensitive (IIRC) though, so yo dont loose any recieving preformance compared to the 817
[17:02] <fergusnoble> 817 can operate on other bands which is good if you wanted to get into ham radio too
[17:02] <fergusnoble> it can also be connected to a pc to be tuned
[17:03] <hallam> 790 is ideal as a ballooning radio imo and will keep good resale value if you want to upgrade later
[17:03] <hallam> you might be able to find one for less than the radioworld price if you watch ebay for a while
[17:03] <Fighter1405> But not resale at £150
[17:03] <hallam> yeah they go on ebay for about 100-120 or so I think
[17:04] <Fighter1405> How often are they on ebay roughly?
[17:04] <fergusnoble> Fighter1405: if i was not interested in ham radio i would go with the 790 i think
[17:04] <Fighter1405> Not to start with anyway :p
[17:06] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, hallam, any launches planned?
[17:06] <hallam> probably a badgercub test in early july
[17:07] <hallam> we have no flight computer at the moment
[17:07] <fergusnoble> jcoxon: until we have a new flight computer we are a bit grounded
[17:07] <hallam> well, except old nova trackers
[17:07] <jcoxon> oh okay
[17:07] <hallam> Fighter1405: be aware that ft-790s are quite rare on ebay, you'll likely have to wait at least a couple of months for one, so maybe you should just get the radioworld one
[17:08] Action: jcoxon thinks badger will enjoy under the sea with his Peg II and V and Nova 2 friends
[17:08] <fergusnoble> hehe yeah
[17:08] <Fighter1405> Eh, for a couple of months I guess I'll just get that one then
[17:08] <hallam> it would be cool to make a boat payload
[17:08] <Fighter1405> Should only lose £40 on it anyay
[17:08] <Fighter1405> *anyway
[17:08] <fergusnoble> jcoxon: werent you thinking of doing a long duration bouy at one point?
[17:09] <hallam> satcom
[17:09] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, yeah, just trying to work out comms
[17:09] <hallam> or maybe a tethered balloon with an ant at the top?
[17:10] <jcoxon> i'm thinking about a latex floater
[17:10] <jcoxon> which will probably dump in the sea
[17:10] <jcoxon> but place a simple beacon on the top that just does morse
[17:10] <fergusnoble> could get a small latex to hold up a 40m dipole or something
[17:11] <fergusnoble> with a base unit in the sea
[17:11] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, you in cambridge all summer?
[17:12] <fergusnoble> not decided yet
[17:12] <fergusnoble> really should make a decision
[17:12] <fergusnoble> i will be here for a bit at least
[17:12] <jcoxon> i'm planning to fit 2 launches in before 27th July
[17:12] <fergusnoble> ok, i will be around until then proably
[17:12] <Fighter1405> What do we actually need to do to launch from cambridge?
[17:14] <jcoxon> Fighter1405, need to decide which launch site you are going to use, Churchill or EARs and get in contact with the people how run the permissions for them
[17:14] <jcoxon> then contact ATC day before to warn them
[17:14] <jcoxon> and then 10mins before you launch
[17:15] <Fighter1405> ok, so it is just a matter of letting ATC know rather than requesting permission?
[17:15] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:15] <jcoxon> we've already requested permission from the CAA
[17:15] <fergusnoble> sometimes they will ask you to delay for 10mins if there is something going overhead
[17:15] <Fighter1405> Got it
[17:16] <Fighter1405> And the people at cambridge are happy for the site to be used? (after asking, of course)
[17:16] <jcoxon> usually yes
[17:16] <fergusnoble> yup we are happy for others to come and launch
[17:16] <jcoxon> and for EARS need to contact RocketBoy (g8khw)
[17:17] <Fighter1405> Does which site you use make any difference?
[17:17] <fergusnoble> we can arrange helium too
[17:17] <Fighter1405> Oh great, that is useful :p
[17:17] <Fighter1405> Which site are you from fergusnoble?
[17:17] <fergusnoble> churchill, the CUSF site
[17:18] <Fighter1405> Same one as cuspaceflight-team@srcf.ucam.org?
[17:18] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:18] <Fighter1405> Great :)
[17:18] <fergusnoble> hallam and edmoore are also CUSF guys
[17:19] <Fighter1405> I'll let you know when I have a date in mind :p
[17:19] <Fighter1405> When is it open?
[17:20] <fergusnoble> any time really, we would have to be there to make arrangements though so it would really just depend on when someone is free
[17:21] <fergusnoble> over the summer there are at least three CUSF people in cambridge working full time on CUSF projects so over the summer it will e easy to organise a date
[17:21] <Fighter1405> Yeah, it will be summer time anyway
[17:21] <Fighter1405> I ordered a Yaesu FT-790 from Radioworld :)
[17:21] <fergusnoble> oh awesome
[17:21] <fergusnoble> a good buy
[17:22] <Fighter1405> Hopefully :p
[17:22] <Fighter1405> Now I just need to hear back from radiometrix and I can get the comms started
[17:23] <jcoxon> sbasuita, ping
[17:23] <sbasuita> jcoxon, pong
[17:24] <sbasuita> So is the 790 still in production?
[17:24] <sbasuita> Surely not
[17:24] <Fighter1405> Nah, it's second hand
[17:24] <Fighter1405> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/second-hand-yaesu-ft790-p-1741.html
[17:25] <jcoxon> sbasuita, do you guys have my ntx2 .650Mhz?
[17:25] <hallam> ferg can I use you as a reference for my visa app?
[17:25] <sbasuita> jcoxon, yes
[17:25] <sbasuita> I've got it
[17:26] <jcoxon> mind if you could post it back to me
[17:26] <fergusnoble> hallam: sure if you think i am suitale
[17:26] <sbasuita> jcoxon, ok
[17:26] <fergusnoble> bbl
[17:26] <hallam> fergusnoble: cheers, they likely won't contact oyu
[17:26] <fergusnoble> hallam: do you know if ed is back btw?
[17:30] <hallam> don't know
[17:31] <sbasuita> jcoxon, could you email me an address?
[17:32] <jcoxon> yup
[17:33] <jcoxon> done
[17:38] <Fighter1405> jcoxon: what antenna is best to use with the yaesu?
[17:39] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, you'll want a yagi for the real thing
[17:39] <sbasuita> .yagi antenna
[17:39] <sbasuita> .wik yagi antenna
[17:39] <sbasuita> ; P
[17:39] <sbasuita> ...
[17:39] <sbasuita> -.-
[17:39] <Fighter1405> Will one from ebay do?
[17:39] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, you can make your own
[17:40] <hallam> there are crappy yagis and good yagis
[17:40] <sbasuita> yep
[17:40] <sbasuita> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yagi_antenna
[17:40] <sbasuita> it is directional
[17:40] <hallam> for test purposes you can just use a bit of wire shoved into the socket
[17:40] <hallam> that will work just fine for all lab testing
[17:40] <sbasuita> with the 790 and the NTX2 you won't need any antennas
[17:40] <sbasuita> (if they're in the same room)
[17:40] <Fighter1405> ok, so need to get one yet then
[17:41] <Fighter1405> Are there any suppliers of the NTX2 for if they don't reply to my email?
[17:41] <hallam> if they don't give you one for free they will definitely sell you one
[17:41] <hallam> direct
[17:41] <herabot> "A Yagi-Uda Antenna, commonly known simply as a Yagi antenna or Yagi, is a directional antenna system[1]| consisting of an array of a dipole and additional closely coupled parasitic elements (usually a reflector and one or more directors)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yagi_antenna
[17:41] <hallam> I do think farnell sells them too, but at a significant markup
[17:41] <Fighter1405> ok, that's fine then
[17:44] <Fighter1405> And what arial is generally used for the ntx2 itself?
[17:44] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, 1/4 wave on the balloon
[17:44] <Fighter1405> 1/4 wave?
[17:45] <hallam> bit of wire, 0.25*c/434MHz long
[17:45] <hallam> with four more bits of wire perpendicular for a ground plane
[17:45] <Fighter1405> Ah I see, just a quarter of the wavelength
[17:46] <sbasuita> Fighter1405, it gives you directionality in one hemisphere
[17:46] <sbasuita> (down)
[17:46] <sbasuita> might also want a whip on top for when it lands
[17:46] <Fighter1405> so one wire hanging down, and 4 more connected to the bottom of it? on some kind of sheet of cardboard?
[17:46] <sbasuita> yes
[17:46] <sbasuita> I think you can have more than four for the ground plane
[17:47] <sbasuita> any radials
[17:47] <Fighter1405> Got it, and that stays outside the main airframe?
[17:47] <sbasuita> yep
[17:47] <Fighter1405> Thanks :)
[17:47] <sbasuita> well, it is easiest that way
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[17:52] Nick change: Fighter|busy -> Fighter1405
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[18:31] <Fighter1405> DanielRichman is this the cable you are using? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/dcu-11-usb-cable-CD-for-sony-ericsson-T39m-T60-T66-T68i_W0QQitemZ250441052524QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccesories_MobilePhoneDataCables_JN?hash=item3a4f73316c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
[18:32] <DanielRichman> Yup.
[18:32] <DanielRichman> Though it's not the cable that matters, it's the connector on the end
[18:32] <DanielRichman> I take out all the circuitry
[18:34] <Fighter1405> ok :)
[18:34] <Fighter1405> And hard to solder you said? :p
[18:34] <DanielRichman> well
[18:34] <DanielRichman> The reason I found it hard is that I attacked the problem with a hacksaw
[18:34] <DanielRichman> and damaged one of the tabs
[18:34] <Fighter1405> Ah I see
[18:35] <DanielRichman> probably should have desoldered the tabs from the circuit board before attacking it
[18:35] <DanielRichman> maybe I'll buy another cable and do it again to be sure
[18:35] <DanielRichman> maybe nt
[18:35] <DanielRichman> Seems to work fine
[18:36] <Fighter1405> ok :)
[18:36] <Fighter1405> Thanks
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[18:55] <hallam> what ho, edmoore
[18:58] <edmoore> hi hallam
[18:58] <edmoore> am really just flying by, back later
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[19:30] <mc_-> jcoxon, saw you talking about a latex floater
[19:30] <jcoxon> yeah its at the back of my mind
[19:30] <mc_-> any advantages over a zp?
[19:30] <jcoxon> yes, cheaper
[19:30] <jcoxon> i'm not happy launching zp's in the UK
[19:31] <mc_-> legal reasons?
[19:31] <jcoxon> yup
[19:32] <mc_-> dual cutdowns might help
[19:32] <sbasuita> Anybody got ustream working on linux with a v4l2 camera?
[19:32] <jcoxon> a cutdown that works would help :-)
[19:33] <jcoxon> but yes
[19:33] <jcoxon> i've got an old ublox gps that i'm happy to lose
[19:33] <jcoxon> coupled with a atmega168 and a radiometrix
[19:33] <jcoxon> and then a idea i have for a balloon valve
[19:33] <mc_-> if it was launched in east scotland, no air traffic
[19:34] <jcoxon> latex floater would be a good start i think
[19:34] <jcoxon> only say a 350g balloon
[19:34] <mc_-> can it float overnight?
[19:35] <jcoxon> quite possibly yes
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[19:35] <jcoxon> if we are a bit clever
[19:35] <mc_-> dump the right amount of ballast
[19:35] <jcoxon> even without ballast
[19:35] <jcoxon> its been done by bill brown
[19:36] <jcoxon> let me find the info on it
[19:36] <mc_-> ah,let out some He
[19:36] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:36] <jcoxon> http://nearspaceventures.com/gpsl2008/GPSL2008.ppt
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[19:46] <mc_-> good ppt
[19:46] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:46] <mc_-> they have a floater that doesn't need a vent
[19:47] <mc_-> just launch nr sunset
[19:47] <jcoxon> yes, but a vent will help
[19:47] <jcoxon> and if we can close the vent at some point
[19:47] <jcoxon> then we'll float for quite a while
[19:49] <mc_-> a resistor cutting some plastic to close a valve?
[19:49] <jcoxon> something like that yeah
[19:50] <mc_-> a needle valve with a spring that closes it
[19:51] <mc_-> then hold it open with a piece of plastic
[20:06] <mc_-> could last 36hrs by launching in the morning, and then dumping ballast around sunset
[20:07] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:07] <jcoxon> something to try out
[20:07] <mc_-> though i guess latex is damaged by uv
[20:07] <jcoxon> that as well
[20:07] <jcoxon> we wouldn't want to stress teh balloon by goin too high
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if it's possible to coat the latex in something not-too-heavy
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> though I suspect it's easier just to use mylar
[20:08] <mc_-> it would float with the ballast during the day
[20:28] <Fighter1405> DanielRichman Do you have any eagle files or so for your schematics?
[20:29] <DanielRichman> Yes I do, Fighter1405, do you want them?
[20:29] <Fighter1405> If you don't mind that would be great :)
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[20:32] <DanielRichman> http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1.sch http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1.brd
[20:33] <Fighter1405> Thanks very much :)
[20:34] <Fighter1405> What was the error that you said was on it again?
[20:35] <DanielRichman> It's corrected in that one
[20:35] <DanielRichman> just not the pdf
[20:35] <DanielRichman> but the opto-isolator resistors should be 100R not 2K7
[20:35] <Fighter1405> Ah ok, thanks again :)
[20:40] <DanielRichman> Fighter1405, have you downloaded the files?
[20:40] <DanielRichman> 'cause I'm about to remove them
[20:41] <Fighter1405> Yup, have done thanks
[20:42] <DanielRichman> As far as I can tell, that stuff works, but we haven't flown yet ;)
[20:43] <Fighter1405> Just thought it would be great to look at yours given that you've all reccomended me almost exactly the same components :p
[20:44] <DanielRichman> Oh, that reminds me, you might need some extra eagle libraries
[20:44] <DanielRichman> or eagle might cope, not sure
[20:44] <Fighter1405> Seems to display fine
[20:44] <DanielRichman> Ok- hope for the best :)
[20:45] <Fighter1405> On the GSM-AT pins, which pin from the phone goes to which pin on the PCB?
[20:45] <DanielRichman> You can also talk to Robert Harrison (rjharrison). He designed and produced a similar setup in eagle (although he had the luxury of double-sided 8mm proper pcb construction)
[20:45] <DanielRichman> One of the GSM-AT pins is connected to GND, that one goes to the Digital GND of the phone (pin 10 iirc)
[20:45] <DanielRichman> and the other goes to data-to-phone (pin 4 iirc)
[20:45] <Fighter1405> Got it thanks
[20:45] <Fighter1405> And my production facilities will be the same as yours
[20:46] <DanielRichman> Remember that to program that thing you will need an AVR ISP programmer.
[20:47] <Fighter1405> Yeah, I guess I'll need to pick one up. Only ever used the arduino before
[20:48] <gordonjcp> you can program arduinos with bare gcc
[20:48] <gordonjcp> and you can stick the arduino bootloader into a suitable AVR
[20:48] <gordonjcp> it makes it all a bit too easy
[20:48] <DanielRichman> You'd need to expose a serial port if you wanted to use a bootloader on that pcb
[20:49] <Fighter1405> ok
[20:49] <Fighter1405> Just following your tracks round and aren't the two GSM pins connected through the 2k7 resistor?
[20:49] <DanielRichman> Also, if you buy an AVR without anything pre-burnt onto it, you have to have an ISP programmer since it won't come with a bootloader (unless otherwise specified), and you need to burn the fusees
[20:50] <DanielRichman> the 2k7 resistors there divide the 5v from the avr in half to make a more suitable 2.5v
[20:50] <DanielRichman> potential dividor style
[20:50] <DanielRichman> the reason both the phone pins go to a resistor is that one of the pins of both is GND
[20:50] <DanielRichman> Click the "Calculate shortest airwires"
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[20:52] <DanielRichman> Things make more sense on the schematic. When I route my boards I try to forget everything I know about the circuit and just focus on routing A to B in the best way
[20:53] <Fighter1405> Makes sense, I'll look at the schematic then :p
[20:56] <DanielRichman> I use this programmer: http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=145&osCsid=672fa9079509c19e9e625d6703d156f2
[20:56] <DanielRichman> suitable, but one of the factors in choosing it was to avoid double postage and packing as I was ordering something from that shop anyway
[20:56] <DanielRichman> so look around, you can post links here before buying :)
[20:57] <Fighter1405> Thanks, I will take a look :)
[20:58] <Fighter1405> How common are the pins on various GPS modules?
[20:58] <DanielRichman> every gps modules is different :)
[20:59] <DanielRichman> but most will give you NMEA as far as I know
[20:59] <Fighter1405> I'll need to modify that bit then I guess
[20:59] <DanielRichman> Which gps do you have?
[20:59] <Fighter1405> None yet, but I may have an offer for a different one
[21:00] <DanielRichman> I see
[21:04] <Fighter1405> why's the area in the bottom right shaded?
[21:05] <DanielRichman> because it's single sided, we stuck the lassen iQ to the bottom
[21:05] <DanielRichman> (check the pictures)
[21:05] <DanielRichman> using solder.
[21:05] <DanielRichman> Leaving it hanging over the edge for space for the connector
[21:05] <Fighter1405> Ah ok, got it
[21:05] <DanielRichman> I didn't want the case touching random copper
[21:05] <DanielRichman> so that's a bottom-restrict area. IE. Eagle's DRC will bitch if you try to put any tracks etc. in there
[21:09] <Fighter1405> What opto-isolator are you using?
[21:11] <DanielRichman> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2198
[21:11] <DanielRichman> the Quad one
[21:11] <DanielRichman> although the dual one should be the same.
[21:11] <DanielRichman> I thought I'd need more gates than I did
[21:12] <Fighter1405> Thanks :)
[21:27] <Hiena> http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
[21:34] <natrium42> Hiena, this is what you need --> http://troyraymond.smugmug.com/photos/328684389_iBVCP-M.jpg
[21:40] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[21:40] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
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[22:16] <Laurenceb> hi
[22:24] <Fighter1405> Hey
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[00:00] --- Mon Jun 15 2009