highaltitude.log.20090612

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[00:21] <natrium> whoa, that's the longest restart ever
[00:30] <Laurenceb> ever used wine?
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[00:46] <gordonjcp> wine
[00:46] <gordonjcp> that's an excellent idea
[00:48] <Laurenceb> trying to get a usable avr programming setup running
[00:49] <Laurenceb> dont knw if I need a new programmer or laptop or both :(
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[01:04] <fergus_eee> hi
[01:04] <Laurenceb> hi
[01:05] <Laurenceb> what do you for programming avrs?
[01:05] <fergus_eee> i havnt used them much
[01:05] <Laurenceb> ok
[01:05] <fergus_eee> i have some off the shelf programmer
[01:06] <fergus_eee> cant remember what it wascalled
[01:06] <Laurenceb> ok
[01:07] <Laurenceb> Im after something that works with linux
[01:13] <fergus_eee> dont really know soryy
[01:15] <natrium> Laurenceb, avrdude?
[01:15] <Laurenceb> its not working
[01:15] <Laurenceb> I cant reprogram fuses
[01:15] <natrium> which micro?
[01:15] <Laurenceb> atmega168
[01:15] <natrium> should work
[01:16] <Laurenceb> I can read them and flash the program memory
[01:16] <Laurenceb> but not write
[01:19] <Laurenceb> (u08)(Bufferfront-Bufferback) <- if back and front are both u08, will that tell me if anything is in the buffer?
[01:20] <natrium> Laurenceb, http://tinker.it/now/2007/02/24/the-tale-of-avrdude-atmega168-and-extended-bits-fuses/
[01:20] <akawaka> Laurenceb: yeah
[01:20] <natrium> "AVRdude fails if you try to write a bigger amount of bits to a field that only expects 3 of them."
[01:20] <Laurenceb> for(;(u08)(Bufferfront-Bufferback);Bufferback++) putchar(Databuffer[Bufferback]);
[01:20] <akawaka> but so will Bufferfront != Bufferback
[01:20] <Laurenceb> yeah
[01:20] <Laurenceb> natrium42: interesting
[01:20] <akawaka> which is a lot clearer
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[01:21] Action: Laurenceb reads
[01:22] <natrium> see sam's comment
[01:25] <Laurenceb> hmm
[01:25] <Laurenceb> I'll have to try that... just need to work out what I want to flash with
[01:25] <Laurenceb> - what I want to set the bits to
[01:27] <Laurenceb> /usr/local/bin/avrdude -C /usr/local/etc/avrdude.conf -p m168 -P /dev/ttyUSB0 -c avr911 -u -U efuse:w:0xFC:m -U hfuse:w:0xDD:m -U lfuse:w:0xE7:m
[01:27] <Laurenceb> is what I was using
[01:30] <Laurenceb> efuse:w:0×0:m
[01:30] <Laurenceb> I'm doing that bit wrong?
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[01:50] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/509224
[01:56] <Laurenceb> natrium: I dont get it
[01:56] <Laurenceb> avrdude: invalid byte value (0×C) specified for immediate mode
[01:56] <natrium> :S
[01:56] <natrium> no ideaz
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[03:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyA9SOCEbSg
[03:41] <kc0wys> haha
[03:41] <kc0wys> that's great
[03:41] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU
[03:42] <kc0wys> seen that one, many times
[03:42] <natrium> is it a rick roll?
[03:42] Action: natrium has seen *that* one many times :/
[03:43] <kc0wys> my class was obsessed with it, they made it the theme for graduation
[03:43] <kc0wys> no it's not
[03:43] <Laurenceb> rofl
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[03:43] <kc0wys> obsessed w/ im on a boat, not rick roll, man that would be painful... ;)
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[07:16] Nick change: kingj -> KingJ
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[07:22] <jcoxon> morning all
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[07:37] <Laurenceb> hi
[07:37] Action: Laurenceb is getting annoyed with code
[07:38] <Laurenceb> trying to get buffered serial working
[07:38] <Laurenceb> I dont get how you start it off
[07:38] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/509351
[07:39] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, did you get your avr programming?
[07:39] <Laurenceb> no
[07:39] <jcoxon> oh
[07:39] <Laurenceb> I'll try it with a few other machines
[07:40] <Laurenceb> I'm using a bootloader atm
[07:40] <Laurenceb> I probably need to reformat my hdd and buy a new programmer :(
[07:40] <jcoxon> surely there are serial libs
[07:40] <Laurenceb> need it to be nice and small
[07:41] <jcoxon> oh right
[07:41] <Laurenceb> I dont quite get how you do buffered transmission
[07:42] <Laurenceb> its all very well grabbing something from the buffer on transmit complete... but you need to put something there in the first place for that to work
[07:42] <mc_-> stick the data in the buffer, thats it?
[07:43] <Laurenceb> if the buffer empties, data stops being sent
[07:44] <mc_-> yes, not sure i understand the qn
[07:44] <Laurenceb> byte is sent, new byte is loaded from buffer
[07:44] <Laurenceb> that process works all very nicely, until the buffer is empty
[07:45] <Laurenceb> you need a way to reinitialise this process
[07:45] <Laurenceb> you do that by writing directly to the hardware
[07:45] <Laurenceb> the questing is, how do you identify this scituation
[07:45] <mc_-> when transmit buffer is empty, its idle
[07:46] <mc_-> you switch off the interrupt when its empty
[07:47] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
[07:47] <mc_-> sorry got to go
[07:48] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/509368
[07:48] <Laurenceb> might work
[07:48] <Laurenceb> cya
[07:50] <jcoxon> dum dee dum
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[09:16] <Laurenceb> hello
[09:16] Action: Laurenceb got the avr programmer working under windoze
[09:22] <rjharrison_work> Yo Laurenceb
[09:22] <rjharrison_work> Winavr?
[09:22] <rjharrison_work> That is easy
[09:22] <rjharrison_work> is
[09:22] <rjharrison_work> h
[09:23] <rjharrison_work> And that AVR studio blah
[09:23] <rjharrison_work> Laurenceb: I was having a look at your DominoEX code on the wiki
[09:24] <Laurenceb> I run ubuntu
[09:26] <rjharrison_work> I was going to write the DominoEx code for the AVR
[09:26] <rjharrison_work> Nut it looks like you have done it :)
[09:26] <rjharrison_work> but
[09:27] <rjharrison_work> Was it any good or is rtty still king?
[09:28] <rjharrison_work> Laurenceb The DominiEX mode?
[09:47] <rjharrison_work> Laurenceb U there sir?
[10:00] <Laurenceb> sorry
[10:00] <Laurenceb> was away
[10:01] <Laurenceb> dominoex is fast, 300 rtty is faster
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[10:01] <Laurenceb> the error correction works pretty well
[10:02] <Laurenceb> but setting the seperation between the 16 frequency levels is the weakness
[10:03] <rjharrison_work> Laurenceb: Ok thanks
[10:03] <rjharrison_work> I may leave this mode as rtty works so well
[10:04] <Laurenceb> it gets the errors down by a lot
[10:04] <Laurenceb> maybe a factor of 4 or so at typical SNR
[10:04] <rjharrison_work> I thought this might be the killer mode but from what you say there is trouble beteen the tones
[10:05] <rjharrison_work> Humm
[10:05] <rjharrison_work> So it could be a a goer
[10:05] <Laurenceb> yeah, I use it on the Rogallo
[10:05] <Laurenceb> but it went crazy on the first flight
[10:05] <rjharrison_work> Did you send the data via USB on the NTX2
[10:05] <Laurenceb> not sure why, I've never been able to replicate what happened
[10:06] <rjharrison_work> Upper Side Band
[10:06] <Laurenceb> USB= upper side band?
[10:06] <rjharrison_work> AVR ---PWM----> NTX2 ?
[10:07] <Laurenceb> yeah think so
[10:07] <Laurenceb> yeah I used my radio board
[10:07] <rjharrison_work> Just drive the NTX2 directly from the PWM
[10:07] <Laurenceb> eek
[10:07] <rjharrison_work> or via a cap/R filter?
[10:08] <Laurenceb> no theres a 2nd order low pass filter and a pot to set the deviation
[10:08] <rjharrison_work> Oh ok
[10:09] <rjharrison_work> Bit out of my depth here was thinking about using a DAC to set the V to drive the ntx2
[10:10] <rjharrison_work> AVR ---Parallel--->DAC------>NTX2 pin
[10:10] <Laurenceb> the trick with pwn is getting the right deviation with the pot
[10:10] <rjharrison_work> Yep I can imagine
[10:10] <Laurenceb> parallel could solve the issues, pwm has to go very fast
[10:10] <Laurenceb> I ended up setting the timer to overflow on 16
[10:11] <rjharrison_work> I may try that then no point replicating the same setup
[10:11] <Laurenceb> youd really want 16 bit DAC
[10:11] <Laurenceb> then itd be totally tunable, you could even transmit slowe scan tv
[10:11] <rjharrison_work> oh for the fine granulation on the voltage
[10:11] <rjharrison_work> Ok let me jave a look on farnell
[10:12] <rjharrison_work> Humm 16bit // means 16 pins on the avr
[10:12] <rjharrison_work> ?
[10:12] <rjharrison_work> I could use i2c and sent it serially
[10:12] <rjharrison_work> any thoughts Laurenceb
[10:13] <Laurenceb> I think theres enough io
[10:13] <Laurenceb> youd want to leave the spi, uart, crystal, and i2c free
[10:13] <rjharrison_work> Oh do I
[10:14] <rjharrison_work> I dont use 12c atm
[10:14] <rjharrison_work> unless it's the same pn
[10:14] <rjharrison_work> pin
[10:14] <Laurenceb> hmm theres 12 io pins spare
[10:14] <rjharrison_work> Ok so you think go for the 16 // then
[10:14] <rjharrison_work> Cool
[10:15] <Laurenceb> I'd go for 12
[10:15] <Laurenceb> thats 4K
[10:15] <rjharrison_work> 12 nit>
[10:15] <rjharrison_work> 2BIt
[10:15] <rjharrison_work> aahhhh
[10:15] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:15] <rjharrison_work> 12 bit
[10:15] <rjharrison_work> lol
[10:15] <Laurenceb> 4K values is ok
[10:15] <Laurenceb> prob enough for several different modes to coexist
[10:15] <rjharrison_work> 3.3-0/4000?
[10:16] <Laurenceb> you could add a trimpot as well
[10:16] <Laurenceb> nah
[10:16] <Laurenceb> have it deviate by a few hundered mv
[10:16] <Laurenceb> either side of 1.1V
[10:20] <Laurenceb> use an opamp as the dac
[10:21] <rjharrison_work> Ok
[10:21] <rjharrison_work> Cool
[10:21] <rjharrison_work> Thanks for that
[10:34] Action: SpeedEvil wakes up.
[10:35] Action: SpeedEvil wishes some of you were closer.
[10:35] Action: SpeedEvil needs someone to convince to get him a coffee.
[10:35] <rjharrison_work> SpeedEvil: or just someone to get you a coffee
[10:36] <SpeedEvil> Minions, that's what I need!
[10:37] Action: Laurenceb lols at stk
[10:38] <Laurenceb> insert - new - missile / planet / warship
[10:44] Action: Laurenceb drops a planet on SpeedEvil
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> A planet made of coffee?
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[12:28] <EI5GTB> ello ello ello ello
[12:49] <rjharrison_work> Laurenceb: Waht is the diffrence between an opamp and a dac
[12:49] <rjharrison_work> I open this to the floor SpeedEvil :)
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[13:02] <SpeedEvil> they are utterly different components
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> one takes a digital value, and outputs a voltage to represent that voltage
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> the other has a little man inside, that looks at a meter connected to the + and - inputs, and a pot connected across the supply. If the meter reads over 0, he turns it left, otherwise right.
[13:04] Nick change: kingj -> KingJ
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[14:00] <Laurenceb> the homunculus
[14:05] <Laurenceb> Yet a third method, cited by Dr. David Christianus at the University of Giessen during the 18th century, was to take an egg laid by a black hen, poke a tiny hole through the shell, replace a bean-sized portion of the white with human semen, seal the opening with virgin parchment, and bury the egg in dung on the first day of the March lunar cycle. A miniature
[14:05] <Laurenceb> some serious research going on there
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> (the above description of an opamp is a functional description, little man content may vary)
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[15:29] <rjharrison_work> lol
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[16:08] <Laurenceb> fergus_eee: hi
[16:08] <Laurenceb> what happened with the balloon on wednesday?
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> it splashed
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> no payload reports so far
[16:12] <fergus_eee> Laurenceb, hi
[16:12] <fergus_eee> it got wet
[16:12] Action: SpeedEvil hopes he's wrong on the second.
[16:12] <Laurenceb> you got a signal what you arrived at the beach?
[16:12] <fergus_eee> we comandeered a boat to go and fetch it as we could still hear radio when it was in the sea
[16:13] <fergus_eee> but by the time we got up the coast from yarmouth the signal had died
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> :/
[16:13] <Laurenceb> :(
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> A sea-recovery would have been most awesome.
[16:14] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how hard waterproofing somewhat more would be.
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> Plastic bag round the bats and RF/GPS, with a little breather hole or something.
[16:16] <Laurenceb> http://www.nebula-aerospace.com/news/articles/rmteqpt.asp
[16:16] <Laurenceb> hes quick to take advantage of the new 500mw rule
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[16:21] <Laurenceb> I'm not convinced he can pull off a working aerospike engine, and the performance with kerosene/NO2 will be poor
[16:24] <jcoxon> its all progress
[16:24] <jcoxon> :)
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> It's progress if it works.
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[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Or fails in constructive ways.
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[16:24] <Laurenceb> home plumbing valves are specced to 300psi or so
[16:25] <Laurenceb> so interestingly they may work quite well
[16:25] <Laurenceb> but its all _very_ heavy
[16:25] <kc0wys> hi all
[16:25] <Laurenceb> hi
[16:25] <sbasuita> use carbon macrotube for your plumbing
[16:25] <Laurenceb> I cant see it working even with loads of stages
[16:26] <sbasuita> exactly!
[16:26] <Laurenceb> bending it to shape is a slight problem
[16:27] <sbasuita> oh wait
[16:27] <sbasuita> misread; joke failed
[16:27] <sbasuita> s/can/cant
[16:27] <sbasuita> ; (
[16:30] <Laurenceb> the design seems very smart in many respects... then fails by using nitrous
[16:34] <Laurenceb> actually... the theoretical isp is around 270
[16:34] <Laurenceb> H2O2 and kerosene is around 330
[16:35] Action: SpeedEvil hugs H2O2+kero.
[16:35] Action: SpeedEvil bursts into flames.
[16:37] <Laurenceb> http://www.google.co.uk/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPATAPP11314467&id=pMiFAAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=nitrous+oxide+kerosene+isp
[16:37] <Laurenceb> 290 theoretical according to that
[16:37] <Laurenceb> also its been patented
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> stupid patents
[16:38] <Laurenceb> gtg
[16:38] <Laurenceb> cya
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[16:38] <SpeedEvil> It's a fucking rocket with a turbopump.
[16:38] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[16:39] <jcoxon> :-)
[16:39] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, how are things
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> ok - had another look at the radio yesterday - nothing sprang out - but I was very tired.
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> The garden is now geting to the point where I am getting on top of it.
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> So can actually pause and do other stuff.
[16:40] <jcoxon> oh okay
[16:40] <jcoxon> yeah, sure
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Been weedkilling/covering with membrane/strimming/hedgetrimming/composting/.. pretty much non-stop.
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> But it's getting to the point where I can see that I can leave it for a bit without triffids emerging.
[16:41] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Hope to get more balloon/radio stuff done over weekend.
[16:41] <jcoxon> always got to be careful of them
[16:42] <jcoxon> well shout if you want help with the radio
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> It's all stupid stuff - nothing looks difficult.
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> just haven't had a couple of hours sit-down with it and a scope when I'm feeling ok.
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> And it's been getting put off in the lack of launches.
[16:44] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:45] <jcoxon> yeah there is a self imposed ban on trans=a launches for the summer
[16:46] <SpeedEvil> as they go the wrong way?
[16:46] <jcoxon> due to air traffic issues
[16:46] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:46] <jcoxon> we are still liasing with the FAA
[16:46] <jcoxon> and Air Canada
[16:46] <jcoxon> they are working out a sort of protocol to help with liasing and such
[16:46] <jcoxon> as its a relatively new concept to them
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> I suppose very few transnational intentional flights have really been done
[16:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> Other than by the japanese.
[16:48] <jcoxon> and if you go up towards newfoundland its a very busy flight path
[16:48] <jcoxon> and unlike with latex we've been planning to fly around 30k ft
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> just for payload issues - or does it work better thermally?
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> this precipitated by the 'lost' american balloon that flew into newfoundland?
[16:54] <jcoxon> the plan to fly at teh altitude is to get the max JS
[16:54] <jcoxon> and also you don't need such as large balloon
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[16:54] <Laurenceb> back
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> oh - js - of course
[17:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU
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[18:26] <DanielRichman> Success! Atmega now sends smses!
[18:27] <DanielRichman> Fail! Another flat battery bites the dust (It was half flat when I started -.-)
[18:29] <jcoxon> good work DanielRichman
[18:29] <jcoxon> what phone model?
[18:29] <jcoxon> please stick it on the wiki
[18:29] <DanielRichman> t68i, Laurenceb's recommendation
[18:29] <jcoxon> oh right, cool
[18:29] <DanielRichman> Don't know if there's already any info on that phone yet - will check and add some stuff later
[18:29] <DanielRichman> $ touch Desktop/ukhas_wiki_phone_info
[18:30] <DanielRichman> I won't forget
[18:37] <jcoxon> looking forward to seeing this payload fly
[18:38] <jcoxon> any ideas when?
[18:41] <DanielRichman> ASAP. The circuitry is really coming together fast, and we're pretty much set to start building the payload - except we need to get the SD card working
[18:41] <DanielRichman> I'm hoping less than 2 months
[18:48] <jcoxon> excellent
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[18:54] <RocketBoy> yo chaps
[18:54] <RocketBoy> - what happened to Nova13 in the end? did they get it back from the sea?
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[18:55] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[18:55] <jcoxon> unfortunately when the rescue boat arrived there wasn't anything to find
[18:55] <RocketBoy> :-(
[18:56] <jcoxon> oh well
[18:56] <jcoxon> Davey Jones swallows another payload
[18:56] <RocketBoy> so they went to sea - wow now thats dedication
[18:56] <jcoxon> it has the school experiments onboard
[18:57] <RocketBoy> I guess it wasn't desined to float?
[18:57] <RocketBoy> designed
[18:57] <jcoxon> not with floating in mind i think
[18:58] <RocketBoy> any idea why the cutdown failed? - what sort was it?
[18:58] <jcoxon> i'm not sure
[18:59] <jcoxon> i think the ones that go bang
[18:59] <jcoxon> damn cutdowns :-)
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[19:09] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, btw longstaff said we can just order stuff and give him the recepits
[19:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, AlexBreton told me
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[19:43] <RocketBoy> BBL
[19:44] Nick change: RocketBoy -> G8KHW|Away
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[22:36] Action: jcoxon has an xbox 360 with a 3/4 red ring of death
[22:40] <Laurenceb> towel time
[22:41] <jcoxon> and i think its out of warranty
[22:42] <jcoxon> i think the towel is for the 1/4 ring of death
[22:43] <Laurenceb> lol I was joking
[22:43] <Laurenceb> you need to take out the main board and reflow it
[22:43] <Laurenceb> bbl
[22:43] <Laurenceb> use an over
[22:43] <Laurenceb> *oven
[22:55] <Bertrix> the towel only makes it worse usually
[22:55] <Bertrix> works for like 5 hours and then breaks more
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[23:12] Action: sbasuita dumps daniel's massive catch-up post... http://alienproject.wordpress.com/
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[00:00] --- Sat Jun 13 2009