[00:04] <Laurenceb> what do you guys think of my new site? http://www.nibirupedia.com/
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[00:12] <natrium42> Laurenceb, hot
[00:20] <fnoble> edmoore, bad things are afoot
[00:20] <edmoore> be quick for the hour of my discontent is near
[00:21] <fnoble> the badger is no longer writing to the sd card for unknown reasons
[00:22] <edmoore> another hairline solder fracture?
[00:22] <fnoble> dunno
[00:22] <fnoble> the socket is a bit loose
[00:22] <fnoble> ill investigate
[00:23] <fnoble> when is steve launching?
[00:24] Action: Laurenceb prays to the balloon god
[00:24] <fnoble> edmoore, i would mount another card socket on the board but the current one is epoxied down
[00:28] <fnoble> bbl
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[00:52] <natrium42> whoa, the tracker is much faster in safari4 than in firefox3
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[01:16] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ping
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[01:18] <fnoble> back
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[01:32] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
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[02:11] <SpeedEvil> pog
[02:11] <kc0wys> hi
[02:13] <SpeedEvil> ho
[02:16] <Laurenceb> hey
[02:16] <Laurenceb> have you looked at emachineshop?
[02:16] <SpeedEvil> no
[02:17] <SpeedEvil> what?
[02:17] <Laurenceb> its a site
[02:17] <Laurenceb> they offer cnc machining
[02:17] <Laurenceb> not sure on the prices... seems fairly reasonable
[02:18] <Laurenceb> certainly towards the cheaper end
[02:18] <SpeedEvil> intersting
[02:18] <Laurenceb> I've forgotten what I was quited by a place in Derby...
[02:20] <SpeedEvil> you've got actual drawings?
[02:21] <Laurenceb> just asking how much they charged for some of their jobs
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> We have reports of use on Linux by running the latest version of the Mandriva linux operating system and running eMachineShop under the Wine emulator provided the machine has the power and graphics support
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> "Everything looks fine, and within specifications. I am very pleased with the excellent job!" - Simon Garcia View All Testimonials >> eMachineShop on Twitter Silk screen printing Cylinder groove Error Reading Agreement ... holes on the side of a
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> oops
[02:28] <Laurenceb> lol
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[08:45] <jcoxon> ping edmoore
[08:46] <edmoore> hi jimbo
[08:46] <jcoxon> you tracking today?
[08:46] <edmoore> i will try to, yes
[08:46] <jcoxon> got a binary for you i think
[08:46] <edmoore> though i have go to london at about 4
[08:46] <edmoore> dmg?
[08:47] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:48] <edmoore> cool beans
[08:48] <edmoore> hit me up
[08:48] <rjharrison_work> lol
[08:48] <rjharrison_work> edmore are you staying put or in chase car 2
[08:49] <rjharrison_work> edmoore even
[08:49] <edmoore> have texted steve to ask about the plan - as i say, i have to be off to london this afternoon so it depends on the interaction between the two things
[08:50] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/detail?name=fldigi-3.11.4.dmg&can=2&q=#makechanges
[08:50] <jcoxon> oh that link might not work
[08:50] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[08:51] <edmoore> the link works
[08:51] <edmoore> the software itself crashes on launch
[08:52] <rjharrison_work> yep there is a problem I can tell due to the size
[08:52] <rjharrison_work> mybe not actually
[08:52] <edmoore> should i try r43?
[08:52] <rjharrison_work> bloody dynamic libs
[08:52] <rjharrison_work> no
[08:52] <jcoxon> edmoore, nah
[08:52] <jcoxon> edmoore, do you have a few mins to debug with me?
[08:53] <edmoore> start typing, i need to visit the loo
[08:53] <jcoxon> basically need to start the app from the commandline
[08:54] <jcoxon> so mount the dmg
[08:54] <jcoxon> cd /Volumes/fldigi-3.11.4/fldigi-3.11.4.app/Contents/MacOS/
[08:55] <jcoxon> oooo i found the issue
[08:56] <edmoore> still want me to run the bin rom cli?
[08:56] <edmoore> from*
[08:56] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:56] <jcoxon> i reckon you'll get the same error as me
[08:57] <edmoore> ./fldigi
[08:57] <edmoore> dyld: Library not loaded: @executable_path/../Frameworks/libcurl.4.dylib
[08:57] <edmoore> Referenced from: /Volumes/fldigi-3.11.4/fldigi-3.11.4.app/Contents/MacOS/./fldigi
[08:57] <edmoore> Reason: Incompatible library version: fldigi requires version 6.0.0 or later, but libcurl.4.dylib provides version 5.0.0
[08:57] <edmoore> Trace/BPT trap
[08:58] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:58] <rjharrison_work> Well it's there in plane English
[08:58] <jcoxon> thats a new error :-)
[08:59] <jcoxon> much easier to fix
[08:59] <jcoxon> i think
[09:00] <jcoxon> okay take 2
[09:00] <jcoxon> it runs on my box
[09:01] <jcoxon> uploading now
[09:03] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[09:05] <jcoxon> edmoore,
[09:06] <edmoore> ta
[09:07] <edmoore> works
[09:08] <jcoxon> great
[09:08] <rjharrison_work> well done
[09:08] <edmoore> coming through to server?
[09:09] <jcoxon> have you filled in the details?
[09:10] <jcoxon> rjharrison_work, view.php is getting a tad big
[09:10] <jcoxon> edmoore, MOTEK : ZZ,MOTEK,2009-06-09 09:06:34,UNKNOWN,UNKNOWN,UNKNOWN,5/8THS WHIP
[09:10] <jcoxon> however you need to fill in a few more details
[09:11] <edmoore> even now?
[09:12] <edmoore> filled in position and radio about 2 mins back
[09:12] <jcoxon> oh right
[09:12] <jcoxon> it won't update the server for 15mins
[09:12] <jcoxon> or if you restart the program
[09:14] <rjharrison_work> view.php > /dev/null
[09:14] <rjharrison_work> You should have a clean one now
[09:14] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:14] <jcoxon> edmoore, yup
[09:14] <jcoxon> coming through
[09:15] <edmoore> cool
[09:15] <jcoxon> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/loggers.php
[09:15] <jcoxon> however
[09:15] <jcoxon> you've swapped your 0 for a O
[09:15] <rjharrison_work> hehe edmoore you got your call
[09:15] <rjharrison_work> bolox you beat me jcoxon
[09:15] <jcoxon> rjharrison_work, is it worth us purging loggers.php
[09:15] <rjharrison_work> I'll tidy it
[09:15] <rjharrison_work> Not worth flushing it
[09:16] <rjharrison_work> BTW we must but version of sw in the curl
[09:16] <rjharrison_work> It would be really help full
[09:16] <jcoxon> yup
[09:16] <rjharrison_work> and in the about window
[09:16] <jcoxon> will look in to that
[09:16] <jcoxon> perhaps as a progdefault
[09:16] <jcoxon> and have the about window read that
[09:16] <jcoxon> as well as curl
[09:17] <rjharrison_work> ok what ever is easyest
[09:17] <rjharrison_work> esp if we can change it in one place with out having to recompile the whole project
[09:18] <jcoxon> also need to intergrate gps
[09:18] <rjharrison_work> yeah yeah yeah I know
[09:26] <edmoore> flight profile isn't too bad today
[09:29] <rjharrison_work> edmoore
[09:29] <edmoore> yes
[09:29] <rjharrison_work> Do you know when the launch is
[09:29] <edmoore> no
[09:29] <rjharrison_work> roughly
[09:29] <rjharrison_work> ok
[09:29] <edmoore> i guessed 13.00
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[09:30] <jcoxon> okay thats me done for today
[09:30] <jcoxon> whats the link for the mobile page on the server?
[09:30] <rjharrison_work> www.robertharrison.org/mobile.php
[09:32] <rjharrison_work> You should be able to see two payloads on the iphone display
[09:32] <jcoxon> rjharrison_work, ooo it refreshes now on android
[09:32] <rjharrison_work> hehe
[09:32] <rjharrison_work> the url changes every time now
[09:32] <rjharrison_work> ?rnd(32423987)
[09:33] <rjharrison_work> It's on 10 sec refresh as this is what steve wantered
[09:33] <rjharrison_work> Just watch your battery life
[09:33] <jcoxon> cool well everything looks set
[09:33] <jcoxon> wish i could track
[09:33] <jcoxon> oh well
[09:33] Nick change: kingj -> KingJ
[09:34] <Futurity> Morning everyone
[09:34] <Futurity> any launches planned soon?
[09:34] <jcoxon> Futurity, today
[09:34] <jcoxon> and tomorrow
[09:34] <Futurity> ohh fantastic
[09:34] <Futurity> where from?
[09:34] <jcoxon> cambridge
[09:34] <Futurity> or is it already in progress?
[09:34] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:35] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!n=jcoxon@ Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk - XABEN8, 9/06/09 http://spacenear.us/tracker
[09:35] <jcoxon> Futurity, not yet
[09:35] <jcoxon> probably lunch time
[09:35] <Futurity> cool
[09:36] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[09:37] <jcoxon> cya all - good luck with the launch
[09:37] <edmoore> cya jcoxon ]
[09:37] <edmoore> gluck
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[09:40] <Futurity> I'm at work right now, but would like to track the launch if possible. Can you remind me of the tracking site again?
[09:44] <rjharrison_work> www.robertharrison.org/mobile.php
[09:44] <rjharrison_work> Futurity: ^^^
[09:44] <rjharrison_work> edmoore: You going to fix your callsign on the client?
[09:44] <rjharrison_work> MO to M0
[09:44] <Futurity> ;) but is the Google Map one still going to be working?
[09:44] <rjharrison_work> Yep
[09:44] <edmoore> done
[09:45] <rjharrison_work> Futurity: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[09:45] <rjharrison_work> edmoore: cool
[09:51] <Futurity> thanks for the link
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[10:43] <rjharrison_work> Steve is at ears
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[11:47] <mc-> Speedevil, the heatsealer arrived today, and it works great. Thanks for the link.
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[12:25] <fergusnoble> hey, has steve launched?
[12:26] <mc-> not as far as I know
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[12:41] <jcoxon> oooo steve is flying
[12:43] <jcoxon> anyone around to listen in?
[12:43] <jcoxon> rjharrison_work, fergusnoble ?
[12:43] <fergusnoble> ed is on his way back to chu to set up a station
[12:43] <fergusnoble> im just bodging together an antenna out of some old coax i found in my room
[12:43] <fergusnoble> so i will try and listen too
[12:44] <jcoxon> cool
[12:44] <jcoxon> did you get dl-fldigi working in the end?
[12:44] <fergusnoble> not yet
[12:44] <fergusnoble> it wouldnt install from the debs
[12:44] <fergusnoble> some dependancy problem
[12:44] <jcoxon> oh
[12:45] <fergusnoble> so will try building it from src in a bit
[12:45] <jcoxon> finally got working osx dmg
[12:45] <fergusnoble> there is a package for osx?
[12:45] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi - yeah
[12:45] <fergusnoble> oh cool, where is it?
[12:46] <fergusnoble> i was trying the ubuntu one on my eee
[12:46] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[12:46] <jcoxon> i only got it working this morning
[12:50] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison_work
[12:50] <jcoxon> steve isn't getting points through due to invalid checksums
[12:51] <mc-> jcoxon, I can find rjharrison's work number if you want
[12:51] <jcoxon> oh i have it
[12:51] <fergusnoble> what are locator and QTH?
[12:51] <jcoxon> ignore those
[12:51] <mc-> QTH = location
[12:51] <jcoxon> just lat,lon, radio and ant
[12:51] <fergusnoble> okies
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[12:59] <jcoxon> it seems that the checksum validation is quite harsh
[13:00] <jcoxon> and that somehow steve is miscalculating his checksums
[13:03] <jcoxon> oh dear, and now when good sentences get through they fail the probability check
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[13:12] <Tigga> hi fergusnoble - how is the badger?
[13:12] <fergusnoble> Tigga: not so well
[13:13] <fergusnoble> its not logging to sd card
[13:13] <jcoxon> xaben7 is 15620m
[13:13] <fergusnoble> should be able to fix it though
[13:13] <Tigga> :( - is everything else working?
[13:13] <Tigga> is that the same trouble as we had before?
[13:13] <fergusnoble> im going off with ed for a few hours but will back on it after that
[13:13] <fergusnoble> nope, different trouble
[13:13] <fergusnoble> badger is very nearly dead
[13:14] <Tigga> do you know if he has helium?
[13:14] <fergusnoble> but i think we can shore her up for one more run
[13:14] <Tigga> is Steve launching from Churchill?
[13:14] <Tigga> excellent
[13:14] <fergusnoble> well they should have phoned me when they deliver it and they havnt rung yet
[13:14] <fergusnoble> so i dont know
[13:14] <Tigga> ok
[13:15] <fergusnoble> is anyone around to dash up to chu when they arrive if im still out?
[13:15] <fergusnoble> iain and dan have their phones off
[13:15] <Tigga> you can call me - I have signal
[13:15] <Tigga> one of us can do it
[13:15] <fergusnoble> pm me your number
[13:16] <fergusnoble> ok, grand
[13:16] <Tigga> what do you think about bag of money backup?
[13:16] <fergusnoble> yeah we may as well fly it
[13:16] <Tigga> you think we can get the GPS working on it?
[13:17] <fergusnoble> aaah helium will be here in 10 mins
[13:18] <Tigga> are you around to pick up?
[13:18] <fergusnoble> i have no bike
[13:18] <fergusnoble> ill see if ed is in college
[13:19] <fergusnoble> ed will be there in 15
[13:19] <jcoxon> hmmmm steve seems to be having issues
[13:20] <Tigga> that'll do :D
[13:20] <jcoxon> not much data is making it to the server
[13:20] <Tigga> when is he launching?
[13:20] <Tigga> is it from Churchill or EARS?
[13:20] <jcoxon> Tigga, its in the air
[13:20] <Tigga> ah
[13:20] <jcoxon> from EARS
[13:20] <Tigga> missed that
[13:21] <jcoxon> :-)
[13:21] <Tigga> spacenear.us?
[13:21] <jcoxon> though the server is being mean and rejecting most telem strings due to checksum issues
[13:21] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:22] <Tigga> sweet
[13:22] <Tigga> and not sweet
[13:22] <jcoxon> need a few more listeners as well
[13:22] <jcoxon> as its only steve who is providing data
[13:23] <fergusnoble> my antenna is too crap to get good data
[13:23] <jcoxon> rudimentary whip not working hten?
[13:23] <jcoxon> got a coathanger?
[13:24] <jcoxon> (metal one that is)
[13:26] <fergusnoble> should i be on lsb or usb on the radio?
[13:27] <jcoxon> i suspect usb
[13:28] <fergusnoble> could explain things
[13:28] <jcoxon> steve sticks to conventions and we are above 10Mhz
[13:37] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, anything?
[13:37] <fergusnoble> yeah its usb
[13:37] <fergusnoble> not getting more than a could of chars though
[13:37] <fergusnoble> 1 sec
[13:40] <fergusnoble> ok, going on the road with ed
[13:40] <fergusnoble> bbl
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> wave
[13:47] <jcoxon> right turned off the checksum
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[14:29] <rjharrison_work> fnobble_chase: U guys having problem receiving data
[14:30] <Futurity> hi
[14:30] <Futurity> not seeing very many points on the map
[14:31] <edmoore> we think its probably down now
[14:31] <edmoore> this is fergus
[14:31] <edmoore> in the car with ed
[14:32] <edmoore> last string: dHAVN".395,13:23:14,52.47278,0.05323,2087,0.0,0.005;5;1;1*59
[14:36] <rjharrison_work> right by the stream
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[15:03] <rjharrison_work> edmoore: Any news
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[15:07] <Tigga> edmoore: I booked RAeS thing for us btw (iain)
[15:10] <edmoore> Tigga: its fergus
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[16:01] <sbasuita> Allo
[16:01] <sbasuita> When did the balloon launch?
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[16:03] <rjharrison_work> fergusnoble: U Back?
[16:12] <kc0wys> hi
[16:12] <kc0wys> there was a launch?
[16:15] <rjharrison_work> Yep but vry little clean data
[16:16] <sbasuita> what happened?
[16:16] <rjharrison_work> went up and either they lost mobile internet or bad tx
[16:16] <rjharrison_work> Will post when I know more
[16:16] <sbasuita> :S
[16:16] <sbasuita> fnoble right?
[16:16] <rjharrison_work> yep
[16:19] <kc0wys> what kind of equipment were they using?
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> 3G modem, SSB radio in the chase car
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> (typically)
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> And a laptop to do the decoding
[16:44] <fergusnoble> back
[16:44] <fergusnoble> tx was good, think the flight went according to plan
[16:45] <fergusnoble> me and ed chased the main payload to its landing site and steve and TV person chased the parachuting man bit
[16:45] <fergusnoble> we didnt recover the main payload so steve and tv person are going to go and "find" it later on
[16:48] <fergusnoble> brb
[16:55] <sbasuita> natrium42, you got linked ;) http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1261231&cid=28257917
[16:56] Action: SpeedEvil thinks he proposed this in 2002 or so.
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> the inflatable tower
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[16:58] <rjharrison_work> fergusnoble. do you have a log of the tx
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[17:21] <fergusnoble> rjharrison_work: sorry, it was on ed's eee
[17:21] <fergusnoble> actually, i have that with me, ill see if it saved a log
[17:21] <fergusnoble> do you think it was the checksumming?
[17:27] <rjharrison_work> no
[17:27] <rjharrison_work> fergusnoble: only very little data was posted to the server
[17:27] <rjharrison_work> I need to have a look at the raw data and see what went wrong.
[17:27] <fergusnoble> ok
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[18:40] <fergusnoble> rjharrison_work: back
[18:40] <fergusnoble> rjharrison_work: how difficult would it be to add the landing prediction to the tracker?
[18:41] <fergusnoble> its a simple command-line program which spits out csv coords or a kml
[18:47] <sbasuita> fergusnoble, does it predict a path?
[18:48] <fergusnoble> yeah
[18:48] <fergusnoble> sbasuita: its what is used behind the scenes in the CUSF predictor
[18:48] <sbasuita> Very cool :)
[18:49] Action: Laurenceb predicts the path to enlightenment
[18:49] <natrium42> fergusnoble, it's quite easy
[18:49] <natrium42> fergusnoble, how often do you think it can be run?
[18:49] <natrium42> for each new data point?
[18:49] <fergusnoble> every point probably
[18:49] <natrium42> it's fast enough?
[18:49] <fergusnoble> it takes about 100ms to run :)
[18:50] <natrium42> ah, cool
[18:50] <fergusnoble> ive packaged it up so its easy to integrate with things
[18:50] <natrium42> ooh, nice
[18:50] <natrium42> can has? :)
[18:50] <fergusnoble> the new version though doesnt have the auto grib downloading though
[18:51] <fergusnoble> if you give me a couple of hours i will write a script that can be run to download and unpack the gris manually
[18:51] <natrium42> sounds good
[18:51] <fergusnoble> but i can send you the actual predictor with some gribs that will work for the time eing now
[18:52] <sbasuita> Is this FOSS?
[18:52] <fergusnoble> FOSS?
[18:53] <fergusnoble> free open source?
[18:53] <fergusnoble> yup
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[18:53] <Laurenceb> free as in beer
[18:53] <sbasuita> so upload it to the internets and we can all grab it ;)
[18:53] <Laurenceb> and free as in freedom
[18:54] <fergusnoble> yup i guess its probably GPL
[18:54] <fergusnoble> havnt thought about liscencing much
[18:54] <sbasuita> I usually just slap a gpl3 on my stuff
[18:54] <sbasuita> haven't thought about it much either tbh
[18:55] <fergusnoble> ok, give me a second
[18:55] <fergusnoble> its still not quite ready for the wide world atm, want to get it doing automatic grib downloads before i do an "official" release
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> How are gribs found?
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> Or rahter - where
[18:56] <fergusnoble> but will put it up so maybe we could try it out on the tracker tomorrow
[18:57] <Laurenceb> on a noaa server
[18:57] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: nomads server on the noaa
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> They are basically just tables of winds in voxels?
[18:57] <fergusnoble> basically yes
[18:57] <Laurenceb> height is in pressure
[18:57] <fergusnoble> they contain all sorts of other data too but we just download the wind speeds
[18:57] <Laurenceb> then longitude/latitude
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> makes sense.
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> how high resolution?
[18:58] <fergusnoble> yeah each entry is for a certain pressure and then for each point you get the wind vector and the altitude
[18:58] <fergusnoble> 0.5degree
[18:58] <fergusnoble> 3hours in time
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> Ah - so not that much data
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> (for the UK)
[18:58] <fergusnoble> nope
[18:59] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, for the flight today did you guys not have internet access?
[18:59] <fergusnoble> the 3g module was patchy
[19:00] <jcoxon> oh right
[19:00] <jcoxon> fair enough
[19:00] <fergusnoble> i will try and fix it for tomorrow
[19:00] <fergusnoble> ahh so many things to do :)
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[19:00] <fergusnoble> think it will be a late one tonigh
[19:00] <jcoxon> well shout if you need anything done before hand
[19:01] <Futurity> hi, was the payload found in the end?
[19:01] <fergusnoble> hehe, thanks
[19:01] <fergusnoble> so long as the tracker is ok to go then i think thats about it
[19:02] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, yeah, we might need to turn of checksums
[19:02] <fergusnoble> ill try building dl-fldigi on my eee in a sec so you will hear from me if there is any problem ;)
[19:02] <jcoxon> and hte more listeners the better really
[19:02] <fergusnoble> jcoxon: i gave rjharrison_work the raw data i captured so he can check if that was the problem
[19:03] <jcoxon> oh right cool
[19:03] <fergusnoble> and i will setup a fixed station in cam tomorrow and hopefully have the web in the car so we can upload from there too
[19:03] <jcoxon> great
[19:03] <jcoxon> unfortunately i can't listen in
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[19:04] <fergusnoble> ok no worries
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[19:05] <jcoxon> but will follow online
[19:05] <fergusnoble> cool
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[19:08] <DanielRichman> Hello everyone!
[19:09] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:10] <sbasuita> "jmIrc destroyed by the OS" <-- How dare the system commit such atrocities!
[19:11] <fergusnoble> why does this always happen at the wrong time
[19:11] <fergusnoble> just ooted up my eee and it seems like an update has clobbered the wireless card
[19:13] <sbasuita> what o/s/
[19:14] <Laurenceb> oh ffs http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/09/mcafee_update_snafu/
[19:14] <Laurenceb> so thats why my laptop wont boot
[19:15] <sbasuita> ouch
[19:16] <sbasuita> I wonder if anti-virus and co. is _really_ needed on windows
[19:16] <Laurenceb> you have to use it to conenct here
[19:16] <Laurenceb> - they make you install mcafree
[19:16] <Laurenceb> :(
[19:17] <sbasuita> at uni?
[19:17] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:17] <sbasuita> cambridge?
[19:17] <sbasuita> ouch
[19:19] <sbasuita> That sounds pretty unenforceable
[19:20] <Laurenceb> should have uninstalled it
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/05/tob_minuteman_1/
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
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[19:36] <rjharrison> hi all
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison hi. Did you get those FET links earlier
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> yesterday
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> or was it sunday
[19:46] <rjharrison> oh no
[19:46] <rjharrison> I'll check the logs SpeedEvil
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> k - there are surprisingly few parts that are guaranteed to be on enough at 3.3V
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> -55C doesn't help - it shifts the threshold down 300mV or so
[19:47] <rjharrison> I'v just discovered a bit more about Vgc
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> The farnell selector got a lot more annoying unfortunately, I hadn't looked at it for a while
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> gate charge?
[19:47] <rjharrison> Yep
[19:48] <rjharrison> I though that was what it needed to be open
[19:48] <rjharrison> I now discover that is when it starts to open
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> At 0V Vds, you've got a straight capacitance
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> well - not uite
[19:48] <rjharrison> oh does it store a chrge like a capasitor
[19:48] <rjharrison> capacitor
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> At high Vds, you get a straight capacitance - but - when you start to turn it on, and the drain voltage drops, it pushes back through the gate-drain capacitance to resist change
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> So you get the gate capacitance - but with a kink in the charge/voltage graph
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> The gate is basically a capacitor yes, but it's hooked to hte drain through a smaller cap - which makes things a bit wierd.
[19:51] <rjharrison> ok cool
[19:52] <rjharrison> I'm going to play with the ones i got 3.75 typ Vgc
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Err
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> you mean nanocoulombs?
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Or Vth of 3.75
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Threshold voltage
[19:52] <fergusnoble> brb
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> that's when it barely starts to turn on
[19:53] <rjharrison> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1291963
[19:53] <rjharrison> Yep you are right that is when they begin to turn on so I'm going to have to get some others to work at 3.3v
[19:54] <rjharrison> Vgs of say 2v
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> there is a spread
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[19:54] <SpeedEvil> it can be quite wide in some FETs
[19:55] <rjharrison> Oh
[19:55] <rjharrison> what is that spread called
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> so worth at least masuring at about 2.9V - to give some indication of performance at -55C and 3.3V
[19:55] <rjharrison> oh ok
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> It's the 'min' and 'max' columns of gate threshold voltage
[19:55] <rjharrison> I'm pretty crap at this
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:56] <rjharrison> so a min of 3v and max 4v means that the power range starts at 3v and go through to 4v where it is fully open?
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> no
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> it means the threshold voltage may be between 3 and 4V
[19:57] <rjharrison> and that is when it starts to be on
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> which is the voltage at which it passed 250uA at 10V vds - or something
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> varies per FET
[19:57] <rjharrison> ok so I want FETs with a lot lower Vgs
[19:58] <rjharrison> Say 2v
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> probably, yes
[19:58] <rjharrison> or 1v
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> the ones I linked should be OK - 1.8V or so IIRC
[19:58] <rjharrison> With high ampage
[19:58] <rjharrison> to take 9v @ 2ams
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> there are more if you're willing to use the more exotic SMD packages
[19:58] <rjharrison> amps
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> IIRC one was 4A SOT23
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> I can find it in my logs if you can't
[19:59] <rjharrison> That would be most cool
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[20:02] Action: rjharrison thinks fergusnoble's connetion is a bit sporadic
[20:02] <fergusnoble> eee wifi has stopped working so needed to move lan cable across :(
[20:03] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil found it
[20:03] <rjharrison> rjharrison_work: http://uk.farnell.com/rohm/rtr040n03tl/mosfet-p-vgs-2-5v/dp/1525562 http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-siliconix/si4466dy/mosfet-n-so-8/dp/9550577
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[20:04] <sbasuita> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> sorry - tesco came
[20:08] Action: SpeedEvil has potatos! And pork pies.
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[20:18] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil: http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-siliconix/si9926bdy/mosfet-dual-nn-so-8/dp/8156581
[20:19] <rjharrison> Does this look a good candidate?
[20:19] <rjharrison> I like the dual mosfet on it as it save putting two on my pcb
[20:22] <fergusnoble> rjharrison: do you use the vodaphone mobile connect driver on your eee?
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> The key figure is: Voltage, Vgs Rds on Measurement:4.5V
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[20:27] <SpeedEvil> This is hte voltage at which it achieves the specified rds(on)
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> Opeening the datasheet - http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/51062.pdf
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> page 2 - gate threshold - 0.6-1.5 - so it has a spread of 0.9V
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> Now - take thte graph at the bottom left of page 2
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> Assume that this is worst-case, and it's graphing a low threshold FET - so shift all of the voltages up by 0.9V
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Now - shift them up by another 0.5V or so - to account for the -55C
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Now, look for the gate voltage curve at 3.3-(0.9+0.5) or 3.3-1.4, or 1.9V
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> It looks like - looking at the 2V gate line - that it should be fine at 2A - probably
[20:34] Action: SpeedEvil salutes the hard-working pie-miners of melton Mowbray.
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - did I ping out?
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> Or have I just spammed everyone into silence.
[20:37] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil: Cool
[20:38] <rjharrison> Thanks for the explaination
[20:38] <rjharrison> got to put kids to bed
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> k
[20:39] <sbasuita> From what I can tell the members of Bracknell radio club are all old men
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[20:40] <sbasuita> Meeting tomorrow though.... we'll see what happens
[20:44] <natrium42> From what I can tell the members of * radio club are all old men
[20:44] <natrium42> ^ fixed it for ya :)
[20:44] <natrium42> sbasuita, so when's launch?
[20:45] <sbasuita> If all goes to plan, tomorrow
[20:45] <sbasuita> Daniel is burning his night on final electronics tests
[20:45] <sbasuita> I'm busy hacking the antenna
[20:45] <sbasuita> Alex is making final launch preparations for site, tracking
[20:45] <natrium42> whoa, tomorrow already??!
[20:45] <natrium42> cool
[20:45] <sbasuita> natrium42, we're ok for camb uni tomorrow right?
[20:45] <natrium42> i am in canada, but sure :)
[20:46] <fergusnoble> sbasuita: you guys launching tomorrow too?
[20:46] <sbasuita> nah
[20:46] <natrium42> :P
[20:46] Action: natrium42 will still keep asking every day
[20:47] <sbasuita> Jun 04 21:46:18 <natrium42> sbasuita, so when's launch? :)
[20:47] <sbasuita> Jun 09 20:44:25 <natrium42> sbasuita, so when's launch?
[20:47] <fergusnoble> hehe ok
[20:47] <sbasuita> ; P
[20:47] <sbasuita> he's getting less happy the longer off we put it
[20:47] <DanielRichman> In reality though, I finished etching the *goddamned!!! GROWL* pcb today
[20:47] <DanielRichman> You should have heard me bitch about it yesterday
[20:48] <natrium42> daniel, nice
[20:48] <natrium42> now the fun part -- soldering
[20:48] <DanielRichman> the number of problems I had is humiliating
[20:49] <DanielRichman> So made the pcb in eagle -> postscript CAM processor -> use the ps2pdf command
[20:49] <DanielRichman> test it with evince (ubuntu's pdf viewer) and it prints a nice, to scale, output on my printer
[20:49] <DanielRichman> great!
[20:49] <DanielRichman> Uncle Adobe didn't want to play game
[20:49] <DanielRichman> so the windows machines at school churned out a terrible out of scale version
[20:49] <DanielRichman> I didn't realise this until it was *too late*
[20:50] <DanielRichman> -> besides, that's irrelevant because the photoetch developer had stopped working
[20:50] <DanielRichman> I had brought in a blank PCB from home because it was just the right size
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> the UV side, or the PCB
[20:50] <DanielRichman> it didn't work... so I thought that using a wrong type of pcb was the problem
[20:51] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, the chemical had "run out" so to speak, and although it was there, it sure wouldn't develop anything
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:51] <natrium42> DanielRichman, why not print it directly from eagle?
[20:51] <DanielRichman> natrium42, can't install stuff @ school
[20:51] <DanielRichman> natrium42, But in the end... well, I'll get to that
[20:51] <DanielRichman> so today
[20:51] <DanielRichman> Bring in, rage at Adobe, etc. etc. etc., rage at photoetch
[20:52] <natrium42> XD
[20:52] <DanielRichman> the PCB chemicals are mixed in January - because at that time Year10 gcse students have just learnt how to do it, and Year11 students have just started that stage of their coursework
[20:52] <DanielRichman> Right now - I'm the only one that uses it
[20:52] <DanielRichman> so mixing a whole new tub of developer was out of the question
[20:52] <fergusnoble> http://xkcd.com/349/ -- this is how i feel atm
[20:52] <DanielRichman> in the end we used a small tray that originally had LEGO parts in it as the bath, and did some bucket chemistry
[20:52] <DanielRichman> it worked!
[20:53] <fergusnoble> considering reinstalling linux on the eee :(
[20:53] <DanielRichman> Had to reprint the transparant copper-mask by booting ubuntu on one of the school computers and assuring our teacher that "he saw nothing"
[20:54] <DanielRichman> went to drill the holes - only to find that some joker had decided to mix the chuck with a hot glue gun
[20:54] <DanielRichman> so I spent 15 minutes picking at that :X
[20:54] <sbasuita> fergusnoble, which distro you using?
[20:54] <DanielRichman> but now, all is good, got the pcb and it looks like it will work once I've finished assembling it (thursday)
[20:55] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, sorry, but I didn't nmap the school network
[20:56] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, did that already from ipod remember
[20:56] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, traceroutes
[20:56] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, would have taken AGES
[20:56] <DanielRichman> because your Ipod debian is br0ken
[20:56] <DanielRichman> in paralell would have been speedy.
[20:56] <sbasuita> took ages to do a straight ping scan
[20:56] <sbasuita> let alone traceroute
[20:56] <fergusnoble> sbasuita: xubuntu
[20:57] <DanielRichman> pff. whatever. Maybe I can compile a lightweight nmap that doesn't depend on all that rubbish WinPCAP and friends that just traceroutes in a format that the topology can understand
[20:57] <sbasuita> fergusnoble, isn't there a eeebuntu thing?
[20:57] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, have fun with that
[20:57] <fergusnoble> yeah, it wasnt released when i got my eee and i never got round to installing it
[20:58] <fergusnoble> and now is really not the time to try it
[20:58] <DanielRichman> fergusnoble, are you running windows on your eee?
[20:58] <fergusnoble> DanielRichman: linux
[20:58] <sbasuita> fergusnoble, how will a linux reinstall fix your woes?
[20:58] <fergusnoble> but just about everything possible is going wrong
[20:58] <DanielRichman> fergusnoble, xubuntu is crap imo
[20:58] <sbasuita> it has a nice login screen ;P
[20:58] <fergusnoble> well some update just killed my wifi and now the 3g card drivers are refusing to work for some unexplained reason
[20:58] <DanielRichman> you could try crunchbang!
[20:59] <fergusnoble> DanielRichman: i like it
[20:59] <DanielRichman> (or not)
[20:59] <fergusnoble> or i liked it up until now
[20:59] <sbasuita> fergusnoble, check /var/log/dpkg.log
[21:00] <fergusnoble> yeah, working on it
[21:01] <DanielRichman> Some time back edmoore suggested that using a whole layer or a blank pcb as a ground - plane to make it more resilient to EMI etc. Is it worth it?
[21:02] <sbasuita> May 04 19:05:51 <edmoore> if you can get some double sided, but still can't do actual tracks double sided, it's still good to make one side solid ground plane
[21:02] Action: sbasuita is the grepping king
[21:03] <DanielRichman> thats nice. But we can't do the above, so if anything, I could get a blank PCB and use that
[21:03] <DanielRichman> but if I need to do that then I need to know now, as my brother will be going to maplin tomorrow
[21:03] <DanielRichman> and I can have him get something
[21:03] <fergusnoble> DanielRichman: dont worry too much about that
[21:03] <fergusnoble> are you doing 2 layer?
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> Alternatively
[21:04] <sbasuita> sheet of foil?
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> you can simply glue Al foil to the topside
[21:04] <fergusnoble> just fill any empty space with ground plane
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> I've done that, it's quite easy
[21:04] <DanielRichman> it is single sided, but I have copper-poured the ground plane
[21:04] <fergusnoble> DanielRichman: there is really no need to have a complete ground plane unless you are doing high speed or need some kind of controlled impedance traces
[21:04] <DanielRichman> kk
[21:05] <fergusnoble> whats on the board?
[21:05] <sbasuita> atmega
[21:05] <sbasuita> gps
[21:05] <sbasuita> radio module
[21:05] <sbasuita> are the main bits
[21:05] <fergusnoble> keep the radio module as far away from the gps as you can but should be fine without worrying about the ground plane too much
[21:06] <DanielRichman> they are on opposite ends
[21:06] <fergusnoble> dont connect the rf ground of the radio module into the main ground
[21:06] <DanielRichman> do you want a picture?
[21:06] <fergusnoble> sure, ill take a look
[21:06] <DanielRichman> give me a second
[21:06] <fergusnoble> are you using a radiometrix?
[21:06] <DanielRichman> yes
[21:07] <fergusnoble> yeah, only connect the rf ground to the antenna shield and ground plane, not the main circuit ground
[21:07] <DanielRichman> http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1b.pdf http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1be.pdf http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1.pdf
[21:08] <DanielRichman> on that picture I haven't activated the copper pour for readability
[21:08] <DanielRichman> but here's a picture of the final mask:
[21:08] <DanielRichman> http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1_bottom.pdf
[21:09] <fergusnoble> looks nice
[21:10] <fergusnoble> only thing is maybe make the antenna connection come straight out and put in some connections for the rf ground as you will need to attach your antenna to them too
[21:10] <fergusnoble> but they are minor points
[21:10] <DanielRichman> too late, but it's ok. I'll just solder to it
[21:11] <sbasuita> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/08/apples-cool-matrix-style-app-wall/
[21:11] <fergusnoble> yeah thats what i do, just solder the coax right onto the pins
[21:11] <fergusnoble> ok, brb
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[21:38] <sbasuita> This game + community additions = FUN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTEUbtgpIgo
[21:52] <rjharrison> Right
[21:53] <rjharrison> I know a bit more about mosfets now
[21:53] <rjharrison> Having played and watched a bit of utube video
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[21:58] <sbasuita> ARGH
[21:58] <sbasuita> youtube is broken
[21:58] <sbasuita> they need to ditch flash ASAP
[21:58] <DanielRichman> and replace it with what?
[21:59] <DanielRichman> Have you installed true 64 bit flash like someone (I forget) suggested?
[21:59] <sbasuita> its basically one massive bug
[21:59] <sbasuita> their player
[21:59] <DanielRichman> what's wrong -.-?
[22:00] <sbasuita> really unresponsive
[22:00] <sbasuita> slow
[22:00] <sbasuita> doesn't play stuff
[22:00] <sbasuita> etc
[22:00] <sbasuita> buffering is failing
[22:00] <sbasuita> basically everything
[22:00] <DanielRichman> I don't have any problems.
[22:01] <sbasuita> I'm not bothered whether you have any problems tbh
[22:01] <DanielRichman> anyway. gotta go - bye
[22:01] <sbasuita> restarting firefox has fixed it
[22:02] <sbasuita> what a surprise
[22:02] <DanielRichman> install the true 64 bit alpha! nspluginwrapper sux
[22:02] <sbasuita> though it still pauses and buffers when it says it has miles of stuff already downloaded
[22:02] <sbasuita> i'll stick to the repos
[22:02] <DanielRichman> trust me.
[22:03] <sbasuita> flash just sucks in general
[22:04] <DanielRichman> I concur
[22:05] <sbasuita> Difference between MOSFET and transistor?
[22:05] <DanielRichman> pass.
[22:05] <DanielRichman> but MOSFET is metal oxide something....
[22:05] <DanielRichman> just like the difference between CMOS (another MO) and TTL
[22:06] <sbasuita> I think with a MOSFET you can control the amount of current passing from drain to source
[22:06] <sbasuita> in transistor it is just on and off right?
[22:06] <DanielRichman> ask someone who knows
[22:06] <DanielRichman> but yes, transistor is on or off
[22:07] <DanielRichman> (or broken)
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[22:12] <fergusnoble> sbasuita: a transistor is a current amplifier and a mosfet is a voltage amplifier
[22:12] <sbasuita> That's what the internets said but it doesn't really mean much to me.
[22:13] <sbasuita> amplifier?
[22:13] <fergusnoble> i.e. with a transistor the current flowing collector->emitter will be some gain time the current flowing gate->collector
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> Both can be ued in linear mode.
[22:13] <fergusnoble> s/time/times
[22:13] <sbasuita> ah
[22:13] <sbasuita> that makes sense
[22:13] <fergusnoble> but with a mosfet it is dependant just on the voltage on the gat
[22:13] <fergusnoble> not the current
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> With a bipolar transistor, it's mostly off at 0.4V, and completely on at 0.7V. With FETs - this may be 3 and 5V for example
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> In both cases, the voltage goes along with a current
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[22:15] <SpeedEvil> it's just that with MOSFETs - the static gate current is almost zero, and with bipolars, the dynamic gate current is a bit less
[22:15] <sbasuita> You now notice every time you blink.
[22:15] <rjharrison> hey RocketBoy
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> and MOSFETs are transistors
[22:16] <rjharrison> Tell us how it went today
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> just a form of transistor
[22:16] <rjharrison> The listener was a disaster mainly due to poor data
[22:16] <RocketBoy> well the main thing is I got it all back
[22:16] <rjharrison> Cool
[22:16] <fergusnoble> how did the filming go?
[22:16] <rjharrison> Good imagry
[22:17] <fergusnoble> did they get what they needed?
[22:17] <RocketBoy> oh yeah - but not quite what I wanted
[22:17] <rjharrison> RocketBoy: Do you get to keep the cams?
[22:17] <rjharrison> Oh what did you want RocketBoy
[22:20] <RocketBoy> not all the cams worked correctly - I'm still looking at the footage - so let you know about the rest
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[22:41] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:41] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, good work on the launch
[22:43] <RocketBoy> mostly - I'm just downloading it now
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[23:07] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison_work
[23:07] <jcoxon> hmmm i have a feeling he is at work
[23:07] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:11] <kc0wys> hey
[23:19] <fergusnoble> ok fresh install of ubuntu on the eee
[23:19] <fergusnoble> now can get to work
[23:19] <fergusnoble> :)
[23:23] <kc0wys> just like to let you all know about the status of ensure-2
[23:23] <kc0wys> the software and electronics are all finished
[23:24] <kc0wys> i'm going to call the FAA in a few days and arrange a launch date sometime next month
[23:24] <fergusnoble> oh awesome
[23:24] <kc0wys> currently finishing up the antennas and styrofoam box, and then i'll be completely done
[23:24] <jcoxon> kc0wys, amazing
[23:24] <jcoxon> its been a long time in development
[23:24] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:24] <kc0wys> thx, yea im really happy, it definitely has been a looong time :)
[23:24] <kc0wys> link: http://adwiens.com/projects/ensure/2/index.html
[23:25] <fergusnoble> wow thats beautiful
[23:26] <fergusnoble> control software looks cool
[23:26] <kc0wys> thanks
[23:27] <jcoxon> kc0wys, looks great
[23:27] <jcoxon> what protocol is the downlink?
[23:27] <jcoxon> aprs?
[23:28] <kc0wys> no, it's, well, i made it up
[23:28] <kc0wys> lol it's ASCII separated by commas and terminated with a CRC-16 checksum
[23:28] <jcoxon> oh right :-)
[23:29] <jcoxon> what do you use to decode it?
[23:29] <kc0wys> i'm using radio modem modules i designed around the MX469 ic
[23:29] <Laurenceb> the hell
[23:29] <Laurenceb> thats huge !
[23:29] <kc0wys> basically 1200 baud FSK
[23:29] <kc0wys> yes it's big
[23:29] <kc0wys> not as heavy as my last launch though
[23:29] <Laurenceb> and I thought my aerosol sampler was big
[23:30] <Laurenceb> video tx? nice
[23:30] <kc0wys> yea that adds a bit to the power drain, and the mass
[23:31] <Laurenceb> what frequency?
[23:31] <jcoxon> kc0wys, i'm very impressed - look forward to the flight
[23:31] <kc0wys> 70cm amateur band, so 440mhz-ish
[23:31] <kc0wys> the video tx is 433.25mhz
[23:32] <kc0wys> i thought since both data and video were on the same band that there would be too much interference between the two
[23:32] <kc0wys> but that hasn't happened at all
[23:32] <kc0wys> i was quite pleased
[23:32] <Laurenceb> slow scan tv?
[23:32] <kc0wys> oh no, full scan
[23:33] <kc0wys> NTSC format, so 720 x 480
[23:33] <Laurenceb> wow
[23:33] <Laurenceb> what power?
[23:33] <fergusnoble> ok, new ubuntu was a good idea, dl-fldigi installed with no prolems
[23:33] <Laurenceb> and doesnt that use a lot of bandwidth?
[23:34] <kc0wys> using the datasheet for the rf amplifier i'm using, around 2 watts
[23:34] <Laurenceb> nice, whats the amp?
[23:34] <kc0wys> MHL8115, made for cable TV usage
[23:34] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, great
[23:36] <kc0wys> btw if you glanced at the page on the video transmitter and noticed some big relays
[23:36] <kc0wys> those are gone
[23:36] <kc0wys> i replaced them with MOSFETs
[23:36] <kc0wys> which are MUCH better on the batteries
[23:36] <fergusnoble> and got the 3G dongle working
[23:37] <fergusnoble> things are looking less grim than an hour ago
[23:37] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:37] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, approx what time is launch?
[23:38] <fergusnoble> mid day
[23:38] <jcoxon> and are you pointing people to spacenear.us?
[23:38] <fergusnoble> yup
[23:38] <jcoxon> i'll clean it up then for you
[23:38] <fergusnoble> ill get some sample strings for you to check soon
[23:39] <jcoxon> is their a mission name?
[23:39] <fergusnoble> nova13 i guess
[23:39] <fergusnoble> thats quite ominous
[23:39] <fergusnoble> actually call it nova14
[23:40] <fergusnoble> 13 is too unlucky
[23:40] <fergusnoble> hehe
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> novaXIII
[23:40] <fergusnoble> what do you think?
[23:40] <jcoxon> Nova 12+1
[23:40] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:41] <fergusnoble> or maybe space-challenge09?
[23:41] <jcoxon> they risked it with apollo
[23:41] <jcoxon> thats better
[23:41] <fergusnoble> do i need to change the callsign?
[23:41] <jcoxon> no
[23:41] <fergusnoble> ok
[23:42] <RocketBoy> thats like row seat numbers in planes - there is no row 13 - so if you are sitting in row 14 you are actually in the real row 13
[23:42] <jcoxon> just changing the title on spacenear.us
[23:42] <fergusnoble> ok cool
[23:42] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[23:43] <jcoxon> right
[23:43] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:54] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
[00:00] --- Wed Jun 10 2009