[00:00] <SpeedEvil> night
[00:01] <Laurenceb> cya
[00:04] <sbasuita> :S
[00:05] <sbasuita> I think there is a moth in my computer
[00:05] <sbasuita> Ketting pwnt by my fans
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[05:40] <JoshAshby> any advice for teenagers looking to launch a high altitude balloon?
[05:40] <natrium42> don't run with scissors? :)
[05:41] <JoshAshby> haha, always good
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[05:53] <rjharrison> Moring all 5:50 am here
[05:57] <natrium42> yo rjharrison
[05:57] <natrium42> no launches today?
[05:59] <rjharrison> No
[05:59] <rjharrison> Steve abandoned but tomorrow is excellent
[05:59] <rjharrison> Just looked at the models
[06:00] <rjharrison> It's very likely that we are going up
[06:00] <natrium42> both?
[06:00] <rjharrison> Opps no jest me
[06:00] <rjharrison> Steve is coming to help though
[06:00] <rjharrison> and bring the balloons
[06:00] <rjharrison> 80% chance of 3KG
[06:01] <rjharrison> If very lucky might even top out at ~40K
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[06:02] <natrium42> ah, cool
[06:03] <rjharrison> We'll see
[06:03] <rjharrison> I haven't flowen the pcb yet but might as well give it a run for it's money
[06:12] <rjharrison> natrium42: when do you plan to launch again?
[06:13] <natrium42> not sure, pretty busy with other projects :S
[06:14] <natrium42> hopefully in june
[06:14] <natrium42> as i will be away most of july
[06:18] <rjharrison> cool
[06:19] <rjharrison> And then the halo mission in aug/sep
[06:19] <natrium42> yep
[06:19] <natrium42> sep or later though
[06:19] <natrium42> so we still have august
[06:21] <rjharrison> Just adding string to the payload to make a cradle
[06:21] <rjharrison> Will post some pictures later
[06:22] <natrium42> yay pics :)
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[07:08] <jcoxon> rjharrison, you are up early!
[07:12] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157618814637849/
[07:12] <rjharrison> Hehe
[07:12] <rjharrison> wx checking
[07:13] <rjharrison> Looking good for tomorrow
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[07:16] <jcoxon> rjharrison, very smart
[07:16] <jcoxon> did you get my email?
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[07:17] <edmoore_> mornign al
[07:18] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[07:18] <edmoore_> yo
[07:19] <jcoxon> what time is the launch planned for tomorrow?
[07:23] <edmoore_> 11.30-12.30 I think
[07:24] <rjharrison> Oh no
[07:24] <rjharrison> Let me look
[07:24] <rjharrison> Yep
[07:25] <rjharrison> jcoxon cool
[07:25] <jcoxon> hehe
[07:26] <rjharrison> fixed is always 2
[07:26] <jcoxon> 2dp?
[07:26] <rjharrison> variable dp is at least one
[07:26] <rjharrison> no fixed
[07:26] <rjharrison> sorry
[07:26] <rjharrison> ie none is an error
[07:26] <rjharrison> fixed is fixed :)
[07:26] <rjharrison> if 2 then 1 or 3 is an error
[07:27] <rjharrison> I will create time which is ##:##:##
[07:27] <jcoxon> yes but where do i get the info for this
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[07:27] <rjharrison> hehe
[07:27] <rjharrison> ! in the xml will fix that
[07:28] <jcoxon> still confused
[07:28] <rjharrison> I will need to add something to the xml
[07:29] <jcoxon> right
[07:29] <rjharrison> If decimal places not given but decimal then perhaps that could be variable
[07:29] <jcoxon> and could we change the datatype to the chars required by the validate function?
[07:30] <rjharrison> sure
[07:30] <rjharrison> need to get kids ready
[07:30] <jcoxon> np
[07:30] <rjharrison> What type would you like
[07:33] <jcoxon> C = Upper Case Alphanumeric string
[07:33] <jcoxon> c = Alphanumeric string
[07:33] <jcoxon> i = integer
[07:33] <jcoxon> d = decimal with variable decimal places
[07:33] <jcoxon> f = decimal with fixed decimal places
[07:33] <jcoxon> then i can parse it directly
[07:39] <rjharrison> ok cool
[07:39] <rjharrison> I'll do that
[07:39] <rjharrison> have to take kid to nursery
[07:39] <jcoxon> np
[07:39] <jcoxon> will svn my changes
[07:41] <rjharrison> cool
[07:41] <rjharrison> Will test in a bit
[07:41] <rjharrison> at work
[07:41] <rjharrison> bbiab
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[07:44] <natrium42> edmoore, could you check the tracker again? i made some fixes
[07:45] <natrium42> should be much faster to load now
[07:45] <edmoore_> natrium42: sure
[07:45] <edmoore_> let me get the eeeeeee
[07:45] <natrium42> k, thanks
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[07:47] <edmoore_> natrium42: difference is night and day
[07:47] <edmoore_> awesonme
[07:47] <natrium42> :)
[07:47] <natrium42> the code had a hideous deficiency
[07:48] <natrium42> it recalculated the polyline for each added position
[07:48] <edmoore_> ah
[07:48] <natrium42> so that's 1007 calculations for this sample data
[07:49] <natrium42> i also added range checking on lat/lon (-90..90 and -180..180)
[07:50] <natrium42> could theoretically check if the point is "too far away" from the last points too
[07:50] <natrium42> but i think it's best done outside the tracker
[07:50] <edmoore_> yeah
[07:50] <edmoore_> well, awesome
[07:50] <natrium42> error correction should be really implemented :P
[07:54] <edmoore_> right, bbl
[07:54] <edmoore_> breakfast
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[07:55] <natrium42> bed time for me, g'nite
[08:00] <jcoxon> night
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[08:44] <rhjharrison> back
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[08:44] <rhjharrison> .
[08:45] Nick change: rhjharrison -> rjharrison
[08:49] <rjharrison> Is anyone going to be watching tomorrows launch?
[08:50] <rjharrison> 11:30 am
[08:50] <rjharrison> 11:30 am BST
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[08:54] <rjharrison> Yo ed
[08:54] <rjharrison> ex is still cool
[08:54] <rjharrison> wx
[08:54] <rjharrison> hehe
[08:55] <rjharrison> is 5m/s realistic accebt rate?
[08:55] <rjharrison> ir is that 3m/s in the predictor there for a reason :)
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[09:01] <rjharrison> opps
[09:01] <edmoore_> yo
[09:01] <rjharrison> wx is cool
[09:01] <rjharrison> is 5m/s a reasonable ascent rate?
[09:02] <rjharrison> pred has 3 a default
[09:02] <rjharrison> s/a/as
[09:02] <rjharrison> Have clearence from wife :)
[09:03] <rjharrison> He this afternoon @ 1pm
[09:03] <rjharrison> I'm thinking drive down tonight
[09:03] <rjharrison> Stay in naff hotel on motorway
[09:03] <rjharrison> Be fresher tomorrow
[09:06] <edmoore_> if u fancy a pub dinner tonight...
[09:06] <edmoore_> 5 is fine
[09:07] <edmoore_> 3 is a bit low
[09:07] <edmoore_> although depends on what you want to do :)
[09:07] <rjharrison> Cool
[09:08] <rjharrison> It may be quite lat as i wont be able to set off till gone 8 but I would like to get the driving done befor launch tomorrow
[09:08] <rjharrison> Quite excited
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[09:12] <edmoore_> it could be an awesome launch
[09:12] <edmoore_> got a completely redundant 1hz beeper?
[09:16] <Laurenceb> hello
[09:16] <Laurenceb> arggg tomorrow
[09:16] Action: Laurenceb is presently gluing together a payload enclosure
[09:16] Action: Laurenceb notices a complete lack of code to run on his payload...
[09:17] <edmoore_> for why?
[09:18] <Laurenceb> tomorrow
[09:18] <Laurenceb> - UM12 module and ublox5
[09:20] <edmoore_> are you coming up?
[09:20] <Laurenceb> yes, on the train
[09:21] <Laurenceb> I'm going to try some range/high altitude tests
[09:21] <Laurenceb> if I can get everything put together in time that is...
[09:21] <edmoore_> ok. I can't be any help with transport i'm afraid
[09:21] <rjharrison> Ooh
[09:22] <rjharrison> edmoore How small?
[09:22] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157618814637849/detail/
[09:23] <edmoore_> ?
[09:23] <rjharrison> Ohh did you say you had a spare 1hz beacon?
[09:23] <edmoore_> do you mean 'Laurenceb how small?'
[09:23] <rjharrison> Or was that a question?
[09:24] <edmoore_> a question
[09:24] <rjharrison> No it os solo radio
[09:24] <Laurenceb> ?!
[09:24] <Laurenceb> if your asking weight, ~200grams
[09:24] <edmoore_> that's like a 50% increase, iirc
[09:25] <rjharrison> Laurenceb. I'm hoping to do an alt attempt tomorrow
[09:25] <Laurenceb> oh
[09:25] <Laurenceb> hmm
[09:25] <rjharrison> Thinking 3kg balloon
[09:25] <Laurenceb> I could make a cutdown?
[09:25] <rjharrison> Given how good the wx is
[09:26] <Laurenceb> just a sec I'll have a go at weighting it
[09:27] <rjharrison> This might be a bit pricy for a payload train though I have a plan to launch again soon
[09:29] <Laurenceb> hmm about 200 to 250 grams
[09:29] <Laurenceb> is steve coming?
[09:30] <rjharrison> Yep
[09:30] <Laurenceb> hmm I'll ask him what small envelopes hes got
[09:31] <rjharrison> I think he still has some 500g's
[09:31] <Laurenceb> ok
[09:31] <edmoore_> let's bear in mind capacity for tracking and chasing too
[09:31] <rjharrison> I have one if not
[09:31] <rjharrison> True
[09:31] <Laurenceb> ok
[09:31] <Laurenceb> thing is if the UM12 fails... :-/
[09:32] <edmoore_> as i say, I am basically jsut there as it's a churchill launch. I will have o go back to work once the luanched
[09:32] <Laurenceb> right
[09:32] <Laurenceb> yeah... I was initially planning htis for last weekend
[09:32] <Laurenceb> anyone know what jcoxons plans are?
[09:33] <rjharrison> Jcoxon is at home suffolk with his good lady
[09:33] <Laurenceb> heh
[09:35] <Laurenceb> will 250grams mess up your altitude?
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[09:35] <rjharrison> Laurenceb I think due to cost and objective the payload train will have to wait for another launch. The weather is too good to miss and a 3KG balloon is about 250 pounds
[09:35] <Laurenceb> yeah
[09:35] <Laurenceb> oh wow
[09:36] <Laurenceb> ok I didnt realise they cost that much
[09:36] <Laurenceb> thats some serious dough
[09:36] <rjharrison> ! to mentuion the helium to fill the buggr
[09:36] <rjharrison> er
[09:36] <Laurenceb> ok... I think jcoxon is launching soon, hopefully I can do a train with him
[09:36] <rjharrison> Well it's a one off I won't be repeating this
[09:36] <Laurenceb> heh
[09:37] <Laurenceb> whats the predicted altitude?
[09:37] <rjharrison> ~40k I'm hoping
[09:37] <rjharrison> 485g payload
[09:38] <Laurenceb> nice - thats the limit of whats feasible with latex
[09:38] <edmoore_> i think night launches might be a decent strategy for alt records too
[09:38] <edmoore_> to reduce the UV dose
[09:38] <Laurenceb> youd take the record of PBH-7
[09:39] <Laurenceb> yeah, interesting idea
[09:39] <Laurenceb> oh btw, Ive finally worked out a LEO rocket design :P
[09:39] <rjharrison> That is a good point ed
[09:40] <Laurenceb> 7 80mm CF tubes, stacked horizontally - total takeoff mass 100Kg
[09:40] <edmoore_> cos it seems to me that, with the basic models, 40km is certainly possible, but it comes down to how well your 3kg performs
[09:41] <Laurenceb> previously we've found a lot of envelope to envelope variability
[09:41] <edmoore_> zactly
[09:41] <edmoore_> fingers crossed
[09:42] <Laurenceb> the really cool thing is it'd be able to launch a standard cubesat to LEO
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[09:48] <edmoore_> rjharrison: you are lucky tomorrow - the flight path is visible from my window
[09:48] <edmoore_> so the radio will be happy
[10:03] <rjharrison> hehe cool
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[10:19] Action: grummund browses the flickr photos of Icarus II
[10:19] <grummund> looks like cool fun ;)
[10:19] <rjharrison> Hehe thanks
[10:23] <rjharrison> humm a 1 am launch looks interesting
[10:34] <Laurenceb> tomorrow morning?
[10:34] <grummund> how are the flight path images made?
[10:37] Action: grummund assumes that's actual flight path not predicted flight path
[10:40] <DanielRichman> What kind of capacitors should I be using to regulate voltage? The arduino design has a 100uF electrolytic and a 100nF on both VIN and VOUT...
[10:41] <rjharrison> Larger on VIN than VOUT
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[10:42] <rjharrison> Sparkfun do a good turorial on this or see my schematic http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/Icarus-sch.pdf
[10:43] <DanielRichman> perfect. Why the 100n capacitor between vcc and gnd on the atmega?
[10:43] <rjharrison> grummund it's actuall flight path kml viewed in google earth
[10:44] <rjharrison> Good practice
[10:44] <rjharrison> It doen't make any obv difference
[10:44] <rjharrison> All about keeping those ripples out
[10:44] <grummund> ok. currently watching the movies ;)
[10:45] <grummund> it's usual to have ceramic caps next to ICs so there is a low impedance path to take out any supply spikes
[10:46] <rjharrison> Hehe enjoy especialy the ones on the way down
[10:47] <grummund> will do.
[10:47] <rjharrison> Listen to how the sound changes as the atmosphere thins
[10:47] <rjharrison> Hoping to set a record tomorrow
[10:47] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, where did you get the eagle symbols for the radiometrix, the lassen and the temperature sensors from@?
[10:48] <rjharrison> I made them :)
[10:48] <rjharrison> Do you want the library?
[10:48] <DanielRichman> Yes please :)
[10:48] <rjharrison> Given that they work
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[11:01] <rjharrison> DanielRichman http://www.robertharrison.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=78
[11:01] <rjharrison> edmoore_ A 3 am launch would be fun
[11:01] <DanielRichman> thank you very much :)
[11:03] <rjharrison> Your welcome just double check the compents they come with no guarentees this is the first time I have used Eagle
[11:04] <rjharrison> Having said that the board soldered just fine
[11:05] <DanielRichman> ok
[11:10] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, just double checked the temp sensors; they look fine
[11:10] <DanielRichman> they match up perfectly with a NPN transistor
[11:10] <DanielRichman> as in; board-footprint style
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[11:37] <DanielRichman> hmm. version 1 of the alien1 schematic: http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1.pdf
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[11:43] <sbasuita_atsnomi> DanielRichman: o/
[11:44] <sbasuita_atsnomi> DanielRichman: installing jaunty on simon's laptop
[11:44] <DanielRichman> sbasuita_atsnomi, version 1 of the alien1 schematic: http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1.pdf
[11:46] <sbasuita_atsnomi> DanielRichman: nice
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[11:54] <Laurenceb> DanielRichman: you have connected both serial outputs of the lassen
[11:55] <Laurenceb> are you thinking only solder one resistor?
[11:55] <Laurenceb> also I'd stick the radiometrix enable on a gpio
[11:58] <edmoore_> rjharrison: if you wanted a 3am launch, we could do that
[11:59] <edmoore_> i have no issue with that at all - dawn launches are fantastic things to do
[12:03] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[12:04] Action: SpeedEvil waves.
[12:04] Action: SpeedEvil leaves for driving theory test.
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[12:37] <Jon_APEX> afternoon all
[12:37] <KingJ> Good afternoon
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[12:39] <mc-> hi natrium42, I got my PCB working. The GPS tracks aren't the right thickness and it still works well.
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[14:05] <edmoore> .seen rjharrisson
[14:05] <herabot> Sorry, I haven't seen rjharrisson around.
[14:05] <DanielRichman> edmoore, only one s
[14:05] <DanielRichman> .seen rjharrison
[14:05] <herabot> DanielRichman: I last saw rjharrison at 2009-05-28 10:04:09 UTC on #highaltitude
[14:09] <edmoore> i have lost rjharrisson's number - anyone here got it?
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[14:11] <edmoore> hi Bertrix
[14:12] <Bertrix> hi edmoore
[14:12] <edmoore> all well?
[14:12] <Bertrix> yes and u
[14:12] <edmoore> not bad thanks
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[14:32] <jcoxon> I was summoned...
[14:32] <jcoxon> thanks zeusbot for the msg :-)
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[15:10] <jcoxon> /exit
[15:10] <jcoxon> quit
[15:10] <jcoxon> exit
[15:10] <jcoxon> oops
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[15:11] <m0tek> testing from car
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[15:55] <SpeedEvil> testing from sofa
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[16:07] <rjharrison> Hi all
[16:07] <edmoore> hi rjharrison
[16:08] <rjharrison> hi edmoore
[16:08] <rjharrison> I have 9m3 of he
[16:09] <rjharrison> So it's looking more serious
[16:09] <edmoore> what thoughts re timings?
[16:09] <rjharrison> Well still with you at 11:30
[16:09] <edmoore> read your email!
[16:09] <rjharrison> Will head down tonight if I can get a pas
[16:09] <rjharrison> oh ok
[16:10] <edmoore> you might have mentioned 3am in jest but i think a dawn launch would be a bloody good idea
[16:10] <edmoore> they're loads of fun
[16:10] <edmoore> +UV tolerance, lower winds
[16:11] <edmoore> + i could be around for basically the whole thing :D
[16:11] <rjharrison> Ok I can do 4am
[16:11] <rjharrison> If steve is up 4 it
[16:12] <rjharrison> + less air traffic
[16:12] <edmoore> actual time depends on what you want to do I guess
[16:12] <edmoore> i.e. timings to catch sunrise
[16:12] <rjharrison> Well I'll depart here say 8pm
[16:12] <rjharrison> And I'm free till 6pm tomorrow
[16:12] <rjharrison> Can I leave timings to you then Ed
[16:12] <rjharrison> Let me phone steve
[16:12] <edmoore> yes ok
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[16:17] <rjharrison> edmoore Steves comming online
[16:17] <edmoore> coolio
[16:17] <rjharrison> You got 5 to make a plan
[16:17] <edmoore> depends on what he can do
[16:17] <rjharrison> let take it to 99
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[16:32] <G8KHW> yo!
[16:32] <edmoore> hi G8KHW
[16:32] <edmoore> we're on 99
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[16:56] <rjharrison> PING natrium42
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[17:15] <edmoore> natrium42: ping
[17:36] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
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[18:14] <rjharrison> natrium42: PING
[18:15] <rjharrison> natrium42: 99
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[18:25] <Snomi> hey sbasuita
[18:25] <sbasuita> hi Snomi
[18:25] <Snomi> brb wait a sec
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[18:44] <rjharrison> PING natrium42
[18:45] <mc-> I pinged natrium42 as well earlier
[18:45] <mc-> good luck with the launch
[18:45] <mc-> big balloon, tiny payload
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[18:47] <mc-> I was thinking you only need He to lift the payload, the size of the balloon doesn't matter, correct ?
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> to a first approximation
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> the balloon also causes internal pressure in the He - not usually much of an issue
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> but, larger ballons are heavier
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[18:54] <mc-> ah,yes. Just finished a lightweight GPS module, which can be power cycled, so the battery can be small.
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> what do you mean by just finished?
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> designing or using the module
[18:55] <mc-> soldered on a GPS module + patch antenna using my PCB design
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[18:58] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:59] <rjharrison> ing natrium42
[18:59] <rjharrison> p
[18:59] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil can you keep an eye out for natrium42
[19:00] <rjharrison> Let him know whats goig one
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> you mean the launch?
[19:07] <natrium42> rjharrison, sup?
[19:08] <natrium42> <mc-> hi natrium42, I got my PCB working. The GPS tracks aren't the right thickness and it still works well. <-- why not the right thickness?
[19:09] <rjharrison> Ping natrium42
[19:09] <rjharrison> 99
[19:10] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> I assume he means wrong impedence
[19:10] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, well i calculated them with a microstrip calculator
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> dunno
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[19:42] <sbasuita> rjharrison, I've sorted the dl-fldigi configure stuff
[19:42] <sbasuita> rjharrison, so you can do `./configure --without-curl' to skip curl detection/linking
[19:42] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it works with cygwin?
[19:42] <sbasuita> rjharrison, is that ok?
[19:43] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no, you have to add --without-curl and then edit the makefile yourself to link it statically
[19:43] <sbasuita> although... i could maybe get static linking working sometime...
[19:43] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, can't you have --cygwin?
[19:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, probably
[19:44] <DanielRichman> or if you're really pro you could auto detect it -.-
[19:45] Action: DanielRichman starts up eagle's CAM Processor. Prepare for some pcbs.
[19:45] <natrium42> sbasuita, so you guys are up for tracking tonight?
[19:45] <sbasuita> natrium42, sorry, haven't got an antenna =/
[19:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, they're launching in a silly hour of the morning ;)
[19:45] <sbasuita> Oh, I'd get up
[19:45] <sbasuita> Nothing better to do really
[19:45] <DanielRichman> I know
[19:46] <DanielRichman> You could see what you can pick up with that whip
[19:46] <sbasuita> Not getting up to sit listening to static
[19:46] <sbasuita> ; P
[19:46] <DanielRichman> actually, someone was talking about making a makeshift antenna out of coathangers
[19:46] <DanielRichman> not as good as a yagi but it would do aparantly
[19:46] <DanielRichman> can't remember who
[19:46] <sbasuita> I guess I could do that
[19:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, jcoxon with his moxon
[19:46] <sbasuita> .wik moxon
[19:46] <herabot> "Moxon Huddersfield, a British textile manufacturer of fine cloth" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxon
[19:46] <natrium42> DanielRichman, jcoxon
[19:46] <sbasuita> oh
[19:46] <DanielRichman> yes, that's the one
[19:47] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, get to work with it. Oh and set up a vnc server so I can join in
[19:47] <DanielRichman> with the fldigi bit
[19:47] <mc-> natrium42, I meant my PCB works, (haven't tried your PCB)
[19:47] <sbasuita> What about dl-fldigi configure
[19:47] Action: sbasuita grumbles
[19:47] <natrium42> mc-, aah
[19:47] <natrium42> mc-, how do you measure impedance?
[19:48] <mc-> I don't know how to build your PCB.
[19:48] <natrium42> for a microstrip
[19:48] <natrium42> i can send you the schematic
[19:48] <mc-> usually you need a track 2X the PCB thickness
[19:48] <mc-> for 50ohm impedance
[19:48] <natrium42> ok, that's what i did
[19:48] <natrium42> the track is 1.2 mm, pcb is 0.6mm
[19:49] <natrium42> but it's hard to measure, eh?
[19:49] <mc-> on my PCB the track is about the PCB thickess, and it works.
[19:49] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, job done
[19:49] <mc-> adding in an extra ground layer really helped
[19:49] <DanielRichman> Schematic: http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1.pdf
[19:49] <natrium42> mc-, do you have eagle? i can just send you the files for it
[19:50] <natrium42> oh nvm
[19:50] <DanielRichman> Board: http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1b.pdf
[19:50] <natrium42> i know you do
[19:50] <natrium42> :)
[19:50] <mc-> yes, I have eagle. I mounted the patch onto a piece of bare PCB.
[19:50] <DanielRichman> Board-Copper mask: http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1_bottom.ps (postscript) or http://www.richmanwebsite.co.uk/alien1_bottom.pdf (worse quality but pdf)
[19:50] <sbasuita> Could somebody on windows download this and work out dimensions for the 70cm band? http://www.moxonantennaproject.com/MoxGen.exe
[19:51] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, have a look at the pdfs linked above
[19:52] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, cool
[19:54] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no airwires in that but a bit of a tight squeese between some of the pins. Chemical school process so gonna have to double check them after making it or bad things might happen
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[19:54] <Laurenceb> yello
[19:54] <sbasuita> allo
[19:54] <natrium42> ohai Laurenceb
[19:55] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ping
[19:55] <Laurenceb> hi
[19:55] <natrium42> Laurenceb, launch at 0GMT
[19:55] <Laurenceb> wtf lol
[19:55] <Laurenceb> crazy stuff
[19:55] <natrium42> hehe
[19:55] <natrium42> how is rogallo btw?
[19:56] <Laurenceb> I plan to fly the repeater experiment
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:56] <Laurenceb> to see how thw UM12 and ublox fair, then think about how I could use them on the rogallo
[19:56] <natrium42> gotcha
[19:57] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: I have a rocket design :P, 7 80mm tubes
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> np: um12 fair.
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> doesn't have the same ring.
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: septastic!
[19:57] <Laurenceb> natrium: might take a while - I want to fly on a payload string
[19:57] <sbasuita> OK, committed the dl-fldigi build stuff. Time to get to work on a moxon for tonight.
[19:57] <Laurenceb> H2O2 kerosene, then fill the 25% ullage space with helium to 2000psi
[19:58] <sbasuita> natrium42, where is the launch from?
[19:58] <natrium42> churchill
[19:58] <Laurenceb> if you use high strenght carbon fibre you can use 0.6mm wall thickness, and the tank weight is 900grams with a safety factor of 2
[19:58] <sbasuita> Predicted to come down south?
[19:59] <Laurenceb> then if you can fit the engine, alu bulkheads and valves into 1.1Kg so dry weight is 2Kg, it has a delta v of 9.2Km/s
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: interesting
[19:59] <Laurenceb> if you ignite 4, 2, 1
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> how are you throttling?
[20:00] <Laurenceb> I allowed 1.2Kg for an attitude control system
[20:00] <Laurenceb> on the central tube
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> umm
[20:00] <Laurenceb> and a 1Kg cubesat
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> And what does a 5% thrust assymetry do to you?
[20:01] <Laurenceb> but for the first stage you can differentially throttle
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> oh
[20:01] <Laurenceb> also for the second stage, but you only have one axis control
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> nope
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> not if you spin it
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> but probably not sensible
[20:01] <Laurenceb> oh god dont even try
[20:02] Action: SpeedEvil passes Laurenceb a kalman filter.
[20:02] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, just realised I haven't got coax and a BNC
[20:02] <Laurenceb> it may also be a bit slow, especially if you have to use lightweight geared motors to save weight - almost certain
[20:02] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you can still attach something to the socket with a pokey bit of metal I guess
[20:02] <Laurenceb> so it may take a groovy control system that uses both attitude control techniques
[20:02] <sbasuita> :S
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: the throttling also has a _horrible_ lag - if you're using the pressurisation system to do it
[20:03] <Laurenceb> no
[20:03] <Laurenceb> the valves will be built into the bottom bulkhead
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> you mean throttling valves?
[20:03] <Laurenceb> theres no pressurisation system
[20:03] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> oh
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> oh - right
[20:03] <Laurenceb> its filled with helium to 2000psi
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> I see - was thinking of the earlier variant you were discussing
[20:04] <Laurenceb> then you have a plastic cylinder filled with H2O2 and surrounded by kerosene
[20:04] <Laurenceb> and a small piston on the top
[20:04] <Laurenceb> - concentric tank arrangements
[20:04] <Laurenceb> I allowed 200grams for the cyclinder - PET or something
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> umm - not two concentric pistons you meaan?
[20:05] <Laurenceb> just one to avoid risk of splashes mixing
[20:05] <Laurenceb> could of o rings around the endge
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> oh - right - they both blow down pressure-driven
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> I see
[20:06] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, probably won't build a moxon then
[20:06] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, boo
[20:06] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, bah fine
[20:06] <Laurenceb> then maybe a single gear motor driving two valves....
[20:06] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, its going to be seriously rubbish though
[20:06] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you need to be 100% sure on how you'll connect it to the receiver first
[20:06] <Laurenceb> gear motor submerged in the kerosene
[20:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, have some wire
[20:07] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: the top and bottom bulkheads/injector and going to have to be CNC milled Alu alloy I think
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> probably
[20:08] <Laurenceb> as the need to be used to connect the tubes/stages as well
[20:08] <Laurenceb> some sort of isogrid structure
[20:08] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, not going to work
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: duct tape
[20:08] <Laurenceb> I allowed 100 grams for the top bulkhead and 200 for the bottom, then 100 for the valves and 400 for the graphite chambers
[20:09] <Laurenceb> takes the total dry weight to 1.9Kg
[20:09] <Laurenceb> then simmed it with 2Kg
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> that's what - 200cc of graphite
[20:10] <Laurenceb> a bit more
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> what diameter is the nozzle - 70mm like the tube?
[20:10] <Laurenceb> a bit less
[20:10] <Laurenceb> tube is 80mm
[20:10] <Laurenceb> nozzle ~60
[20:10] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
[20:10] <Laurenceb> - chamber
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> how long a chamber
[20:11] <Laurenceb> about 200mm
[20:11] <Laurenceb> - for the chamber + nozzle
[20:12] <Laurenceb> there was also a 200gram fairing around the top of all the stages thats dropped off just before 1st stage seperation
[20:12] <Laurenceb> and the first stage tubes are half lenght
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> IIRC in the big ones, the fairing hurts you more than it helps
[20:13] <Laurenceb> so total lift of mass is between 115Kg and 135Kg depending on the payload
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> leaving the gaps is good
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> now - how much for a rocket to get 135Kg to 30km? :)
[20:13] <Laurenceb> yeah a 10cm square cubesta workes quite well
[20:13] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah
[20:14] <Laurenceb> well the helium isnt too pricy to do that
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> what thrust were you assuming
[20:14] <Laurenceb> about 10^4 N
[20:15] <Laurenceb> or 250N per engine
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> does not compute
[20:15] <Laurenceb> but I need to get some proper sim code...
[20:15] <Laurenceb> erm 2500N
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:16] <Laurenceb> probably a bit lower
[20:16] <Laurenceb> but I need to get some proper sim code... - correct air resistance and an optimal tragectory
[20:17] <Laurenceb> you seem to be able to tweak out an extra 5% or so by fiddling with the stage weight and things
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:17] <Laurenceb> monte carlo :P
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> As an alterntative to kalman filters...
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:19] <Laurenceb> erm for design optimisation
[20:19] <Laurenceb> of course... there is another plan....
[20:19] <Laurenceb> fire a 2 stage to get about 5Km/s delta/v
[20:20] <Laurenceb> then inflate a hydrogen balloon
[20:20] <Laurenceb> made from very thin mylar, aluminised on one side
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:20] <Laurenceb> it has an attitude control system and tracks the sun
[20:20] Action: SpeedEvil passes Laurenceb 3*10^-5n/m^2
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> ns/m^2
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> I think you can't do that
[20:21] <Laurenceb> theres a ceramic heater at the focal point
[20:21] <Laurenceb> and small engine
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> oh
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> right
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> I thought you were meaning a solar sail
[20:21] <Laurenceb> the numbers actually work...
[20:21] Action: SpeedEvil wrote about that some years ago.
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> eyah
[20:22] <Laurenceb> you can get ISP over 1000
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> but it's not a trivial thing to dev
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> Or.
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> A) Obtain 10^15 ionisation smoke detectors
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> B) ...
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:22] <Laurenceb> and there should be enough thrust to get you into orbit in the 20 minutes or so before you reenter
[20:22] <Laurenceb> lol
[20:23] <Laurenceb> of course after you in orbit you have lots of propellant left...
[20:23] <Laurenceb> so you can fly to mars or something XD
[20:23] <natrium42> or just use antimatter....
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> afk - gardening
[20:25] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_rocket
[20:27] <Laurenceb> http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2483
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[20:45] <stilldavid> I'm in a round-table with the Google Maps API team if anyone has any pressing questions
[20:46] <stilldavid> I know there's an AJAX tracker on the wiki that uses GMaps
[20:49] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, jcoxon and natrium42 handle the tracker stuff iirc
[20:51] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb, the t68i appears to have many uarts; which one has AT commands on it?
[20:52] <Laurenceb> the one on the base?
[20:52] <Laurenceb> http://pinouts.ru/CellularPhones-A-N/erics_t28_pinout.shtml
[20:52] <Laurenceb> pin ftw :P
[20:53] <DanielRichman> yeah, but which pins
[20:53] <DanielRichman> cause there's a few uarts looking at it
[20:53] <sbasuita> 4/5 ?
[20:54] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:55] <Laurenceb> you dont want to reflash :P
[20:55] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, does it do text mode sms?
[20:55] <Laurenceb> fraid not
[20:55] <Laurenceb> you have to use pdu
[21:00] <sbasuita> Time to learn how to use blender....
[21:01] stilldavid (n=dave@ left irc:
[21:13] <Laurenceb> how is blender used
[21:14] <Laurenceb> how blender do blending
[21:14] Action: SpeedEvil blends Laurenceb.
[21:17] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, why are you using blender?
[21:17] <sbasuita> dunno
[21:17] <sbasuita> just a bit bored
[21:17] <sbasuita> might come in handy sometime
[21:17] <DanielRichman> lol
[21:17] <DanielRichman> go give the blog a hug
[21:17] <sbasuita> cba
[21:20] <mc-> stilldavid, do you work at Google?
[21:22] <edmoore|away> he left
[21:22] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[21:23] <mc-> oh, thanks
[21:27] <Laurenceb> http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1977SAOSR.375.....J/0000013.000.html
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[21:39] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
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[21:59] <mc-> natrium42?
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[22:22] <rharrison_eee> yo edmoore|away
[22:22] <rharrison_eee> at camb. by turning circle
[22:23] <rharrison_eee> natrium42: u seen ed?
[22:26] <rharrison_eee> SpeedEvil: u up?#
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> sort-of
[22:29] <rharrison_eee> cool
[22:29] <rharrison_eee> Any sign of ed?
[22:29] <rharrison_eee> edmoore|away: Boo
[22:32] <natrium42> yo rjharrison
[22:33] <natrium42> rharrison_eee, shall i delete all tracks on spacenear.us
[22:33] <natrium42> ?
[22:34] Hiena (n=Hiena@ left irc: "-=Mi ez a szag? Hippit égettéll?=-"
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> edmoore|away: last said something about an hour` ago
[22:36] <mc-> natrium42, did you see my pm
[22:37] <natrium42> oh oops
[22:39] GeekShad__ (n=Antoine@32.245.100-84.rev.gaoland.net) left irc: "The cake is a lie !"
[22:42] <rharrison_eee> no
[22:42] <rharrison_eee> I'n on the eee
[22:43] <natrium42> kk
[22:44] Action: SpeedEvil is also on his eee.
[22:47] <natrium42> damn you guys
[22:47] <natrium42> should i also get one? :/
[22:52] <mc-> they often break
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> mc-: especially if you sit on them.
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> (though I now use it as a 'server')
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> (but the display is rather broken)
[22:56] akawaka_ (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> Though I'm upgrading to http://www.ebuyer.com/product/165735 - through ebay selling the eee - it's only 50 quid or so - which isn't bad
[22:58] <natrium42> i have been considering one to run the live camera system on my launches
[22:58] <natrium42> got a pan/tilt/zoom logitech camera
[22:59] <natrium42> works well in linux
[23:10] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc2-glfd1-0-0-cust559.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left #highaltitude.
[23:22] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:34] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: nice
[23:34] <Laurenceb> how long is the battery life?
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: not got the above as yet
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: reportedly only 2-2.5h on that one
[23:35] <Laurenceb> thats a bit sucky
[23:35] <Laurenceb> my acer gets 2
[23:35] <Laurenceb> ooh launch coming up :P
[23:36] <Laurenceb> rharrison got to cam fast
[23:36] Action: Laurenceb is pondering a cudesat deployed solar thermal system
[23:36] <Laurenceb> ~10m diameter hydrogen filled mylar balloon
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah - but it's about 90-100 quid cheaper than thee eeepc 10" - with a better battery
[23:37] <Laurenceb> ok
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: never get cryogasses on a cubesat
[23:37] <Laurenceb> yeah but maybe a pressure vessle
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> or pressure vessels
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> IIRC most of them say no liquids
[23:38] <Laurenceb> that sucks
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> I'd been thinking of pulsed plasma thrusters
[23:38] <Laurenceb> maybe theres a way to make a solid hydrogen generator
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> wonder what the ISP is for parrafin wax
[23:40] <Laurenceb> ~340 with LOX
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> I mean solar-thermal
[23:41] <Laurenceb> oh
[23:41] <Laurenceb> depends how it decomposes
[23:41] <Laurenceb> also you have to form the mylar into shape
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> yeah - which is fun
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> or a zone-plate
[23:42] <Laurenceb> kind of hard without compresses gas
[23:42] <Laurenceb> you can yet 1.5um transparent and 2um aluminised mylar
[23:43] <Laurenceb> so a 10m balloon could be made for a few hundered grams
[23:43] <Laurenceb> fixing the graphite heater into the wall would be fun
[23:43] <Laurenceb> maybe kaptop - metal foil - nozzle
[23:44] <Laurenceb> also it only produces thrust when its aligned with the sun
[23:44] <Laurenceb> but you could angle it away with magnotorquers
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> I think 'could' is the hard part.
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> arranging a precise balloon that'd work is really, really hard
[23:46] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah youd need to make seams
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> though I've never tried
[23:46] <Laurenceb> then form the whole thing
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> I could be wrong, and it's really really easy :)
[23:46] <Laurenceb> well... your seams would have to be done to sub mm accuracy
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> and it has to have zero porosity
[23:46] <Laurenceb> the target is only about 80mm diameter
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> or damn close
[23:47] <Laurenceb> well the pressure would be quite low
[23:47] <Laurenceb> depends how long you want it to last
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:47] <Laurenceb> you could go through all the fuel in a few hours running constantly
[23:47] <Laurenceb> and get ~10km/s delta V
[23:48] <Laurenceb> one idea I had was to make the graphite heater function as a valve
[23:48] <Laurenceb> when it gets to 2000K or so thermal expansion opens it
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[23:49] <Laurenceb> not quite sure it its possible
[23:49] <Laurenceb> but itd simplify things
[23:58] <Laurenceb> hmm right... time to check the tracker :P
[23:58] <Laurenceb> is anyone here tracking?
[23:59] <Laurenceb> /me has a scanner but a dreadful view from his room
[00:00] --- Fri May 29 2009