highaltitude.log.20090518

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[12:07] <Laurenceb> hi all
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> hi
[12:22] <Laurenceb> those adcs are interesting
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> which ones?
[12:24] Nick change: kingj -> KingJ
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> oh - the TI ones.
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> yeah - you run into the 'but what the hell do I do with all this data' problem very fast though.
[12:29] <Laurenceb> yeah, need a fpga
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> or some means of getting it into PC RAM
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> 260mbytes/sec isn't very scary on many PCs
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> sure - you won't be doing large FFTs on it, but you can do a lot.
[12:33] <Laurenceb> the USRP is interesting
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[12:34] <Laurenceb> they have a 800MHz to 2.4GHz module
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[12:34] <Laurenceb> which apparently uses direct conversion - I thought that wasnt possible
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:34] <Laurenceb> as 800*2=1.6G
[12:34] <Laurenceb> so harmonics from the VCO would screw it up
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[12:35] <SpeedEvil> well - second harmonic can be very low in some designs
[12:36] <Laurenceb> we've ordered a USRP to have a play with
[12:36] <Laurenceb> for GPS front end designs
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:38] Action: SpeedEvil is contemplating as a 0th 'stupid' product, before my clever stuff starts hitting ebay - a relay board.
[12:38] <Laurenceb> the gps bistatic radar could use a single VCO for multiple front ends
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> serial -> 240V*8
[12:38] <Laurenceb> that solves a lot of jitter issues
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> hmm, yeah
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> you're basically looking at extended multipath?
[12:39] <Laurenceb> hmm direct and reflacted off the earth
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> is this for flying?
[12:39] <Laurenceb> on a sat, yes
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> won't the huge spread function smear the GPS hopelesely
[12:40] <Laurenceb> for ocean and ice flow bservation
[12:40] <Laurenceb> you can use doppler and speudorange to select individual surface pixels
[12:40] <Laurenceb> a few km square
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> I suppose on reflection ( :) ) you could use without too much hastle 300/8 or so height variations.
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> which isn't horribly limiting.
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> 'easily'
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> You looking at omni or a array of antennas at a dish focus?
[12:43] <Laurenceb> omni
[12:43] <Laurenceb> or at least an array of 4 or 9 patches
[12:43] <Laurenceb> or a helix
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> helixes of varying chirality?
[12:44] <Laurenceb> - slightly longer than a sarantel, but saratel ants have been flown on cude sats
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> I'd be wondering about using better sats than GPS, though GPS is of course easy.
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> and global
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[12:46] <SpeedEvil> pick a mux or three from a direct-broadcast satellite
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> For some orders of magnitude higher signal
[12:47] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:47] <Laurenceb> but the CDMA signal is very nice
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> DBS uses QAM I think?
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> and of coursse, you first need to record the incoming signal, you can't simply correlate with a fixed PRN
[12:50] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> this is a cube?
[12:51] <mc-> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/angular-rate-sensor-ewts82-p-193.html - a cheap gyro for Laurenceb
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> quite heavy tho
[12:57] <mc-> what is heavy?
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> 5 grams
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[13:03] <mc-> Laurenceb, I'm going to make an order at seedstudio soon, do you want a gyro?
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> mc-: thinking of the scope?
[13:05] <mc-> I was looking at that, looks good value
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> I would say could I order one too and share shipping, but practically speaking, I have scope.
[13:16] <Laurenceb> just a sec
[13:16] <Laurenceb> was afk
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> however..
[13:17] <Laurenceb> mc-: yes ok thanks
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> more competiotion for sparkfun is a good thing
[13:23] <Laurenceb> gtg, cya folks
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[15:05] <mc-> speedevil, the shipping costs are very low with seedstudio
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[15:36] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[15:46] <jcoxon> hi grummund, welcome to #highaltitude
[15:47] <grummund> hi, and thank you ;)
[15:48] <jcoxon> np :-)
[15:49] <jcoxon> got an interest in balloon launching?
[15:49] <grummund> not especially...
[15:49] <grummund> i have a kite though, does that count? ;-p
[15:50] <jcoxon> yeah, that a counts
[15:50] <jcoxon> there are one or two kite fliers that are on here
[15:51] Action: grummund noticed #ha mentioned in #electronics, and so joined out of curiosity
[15:51] <jcoxon> fair enough - the main focus is on high altitude balloon flights both locally and also some more extreme projects such as trans-atlantic flights and launch model rockets from balloons
[15:52] <grummund> i have a cheap delta kite, but it flies well (for me as a begginer)
[15:52] <grummund> heh. cool
[15:53] <grummund> i'm experienced electronics & embedded software, so that type of stuff is interesting for me
[15:53] <jcoxon> oh amazing, perhaps we can persuade you to launch a balloon flight :-)
[15:53] <grummund> hmm, maybe ;)
[15:53] <jcoxon> where abouts are you based?
[15:53] <grummund> cambridge, uk.
[15:54] <grummund> working in low-power rf (currently)
[15:54] <jcoxon> oh right, at the university?
[15:54] <grummund> nope
[15:54] <jcoxon> science park?
[15:54] <grummund> nope
[15:55] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:55] <jcoxon> okay
[15:55] <jcoxon> i graduated from the uni 2 years ago
[15:55] <jcoxon> a number of regulars are at cambridge - its where the main uk balloon launch site is
[15:55] <grummund> ah ok, i see.
[15:58] <grummund> whereabouts are you based then jcoxon?
[15:58] <jcoxon> now in london
[15:59] <grummund> ok
[16:00] <grummund> if there are any kite experts here then maybe they can advise on caa rules on height...
[16:00] <grummund> like how strict are the authorities on the 60m rule?
[16:01] <jcoxon> while i'm not a kite person we often tether balloons to test
[16:01] <grummund> i want to use longer lines but i don't want to get into trouble
[16:01] <jcoxon> 60m is the rule, however if you are sensible...
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[17:38] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[17:39] <edmoore> hi
[17:39] <jcoxon> all good?
[17:39] <edmoore> yeah
[17:39] <edmoore> just working on a wee report
[17:40] <jcoxon> cool cool
[17:40] <jcoxon> am working on dl-fldigi
[17:49] <sbasuita> jcoxon, send me a final version in half term and i'll make a debian package ;)
[17:53] <jcoxon> sbasuita, oooo that would be good
[17:53] <jcoxon> we've made quite a bit of progress - solved all our fork issues
[17:55] <sbasuita> great
[17:55] <sbasuita> forking is fun :)
[17:55] <DanielRichman> threads!
[17:55] <sbasuita> what a mess!
[17:58] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, we are using IPC to communicate between parent and child - if you were interested
[17:58] <DanielRichman> cool
[18:02] <DanielRichman> Was it the LPC2148 that Laurenceb was using? Did he get linux running on it?
[18:05] <jcoxon> i think thats the one
[18:05] <jcoxon> and i don't think he got it working
[18:05] <DanielRichman> ah.
[18:06] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, how much of a help is SMS when retrieving the payload? because right now SMS looks like an absolute pain
[18:06] <DanielRichman> well
[18:07] <DanielRichman> more expense than pain, but yeah
[18:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, surely you can imagine the gain....
[18:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 1) launch ballon
[18:07] <sbasuita> 2) find cafe
[18:08] <sbasuita> 3) ???
[18:08] <sbasuita> 4) receive sms
[18:08] <sbasuita> ...
[18:09] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, for the launch of your first flight with a new flight computer i really recommend it
[18:09] <jcoxon> its saved my arse a number of times
[18:09] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, ok
[18:10] <jcoxon> you could go for a normal phone with location stuff turned on
[18:10] <jcoxon> e.g. http://www.followus.co.uk/index.html
[18:10] <jcoxon> and that would get you close enough to fox hunt
[18:10] <jcoxon> save you doing sms and all that jazz
[18:10] <DanielRichman> interesting idea
[18:10] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ?
[18:11] <DanielRichman> looks cheaper than a £30 sms module & breakout board
[18:11] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, nowhere near as good as getting actual co-ords
[18:11] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, also the cost is a one time investment versus ongoing fee
[18:11] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, have you ever foxhunted before?
[18:11] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, hmm.
[18:12] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I was looking into sms modules
[18:12] <sbasuita> you mean gsm
[18:12] <sbasuita> i hope
[18:12] <sbasuita> ; P
[18:12] <DanielRichman> yes, whatever
[18:12] <DanielRichman> and that £30 one, the simcom/farnel one, would require some sort of breakout board
[18:12] <DanielRichman> which I can't immediatly find
[18:12] <DanielRichman> or we'd have to make one which would be expensive
[18:12] <DanielRichman> and the gm862 - sparkfun sells it and a breakout board, but that's even more expensive
[18:13] <DanielRichman> how complex is usb protocol!?
[18:13] <sbasuita> don't want to be implementing usb
[18:13] <DanielRichman> actually. Come to think of it
[18:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, do you have that USB cable on you, for your phone?
[18:13] <sbasuita> yes
[18:13] <DanielRichman> do you have a multimeter that will do continuity test (ie. beep if it's a full conductinc circuit?)
[18:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, er, i have an analog multimeter
[18:14] <DanielRichman> so I guess not.
[18:14] <DanielRichman> bring the cable in tomorrow?
[18:14] <sbasuita> don't think it does continuity
[18:14] <DanielRichman> ok. Can you bring the cable in to school tomorrow?
[18:14] <DanielRichman> or grab a better multimeter if there is one around ;)
[18:15] <sbasuita> probably not
[18:15] <sbasuita> can i not improvise?
[18:16] <DanielRichman> erm
[18:16] <DanielRichman> battery and light would be required
[18:16] <sbasuita> could do
[18:16] <sbasuita> but busy
[18:16] <sbasuita> ; )
[18:16] <DanielRichman> so bring in the cable tomorrow :)
[18:16] <sbasuita> won't have times
[18:18] <DanielRichman> you don't have time to stick a cable in your bag?
[18:19] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, won't have time to do anything tomorrow
[18:20] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you are such a hindrance to the productivity of our project. Put the cable in your bag now.
[18:20] <sbasuita> got to chill
[18:20] <sbasuita> go do some revision mate
[18:20] <DanielRichman> think of it as a trade off. If you put it in your bag now then I won't hassle you, so you'll save time.
[18:21] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:12] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, put fireworks on the balloon so we can find it when we get close
[19:12] <sbasuita> also doubles as celebration of finding it
[19:15] <KingJ> and just hope it dosen't land in the middle of a populated public area, like say a high street ;)
[19:16] <sbasuita> obviously we'd do all the proper safety checks before sending it the go-signal ;P
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[19:51] <DanielRichman> hmm. sbasuita, somehow I don't think so.
[19:51] <DanielRichman> How about we let off some fireworks at 30k?
[19:58] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, have fun with your combustion up there
[19:58] <DanielRichman> indeed
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> fireworks do not rely on external oxygen
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> in general
[20:00] <DanielRichman> have to do it at night anyway to see them
[20:01] <sbasuita> need to do a night launch
[20:02] <sbasuita> downwards facing camera
[20:02] <sbasuita> london all lit up like ;)
[20:02] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, need to put a satellite balloon up... well, permanant fixture
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[21:30] <Snomi> sbasuita hey
[21:31] <sbasuita> Snomi!
[21:36] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, how many leds have the school got?
[21:36] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, bucket loads
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[21:36] <DanielRichman> trust me. You've never seen so many LEDs
[21:36] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, good. Will make a mahoosive LED screen.
[21:37] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, why?
[21:37] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, bored
[21:37] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, they may have bucket loads but that isn't an excuse to gorge yourself ;)
[21:37] <DanielRichman> what do you intend to do with a mahoosive screen?
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> 100*100 is 10000 LEDs tho
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> that's a lot of solder
[21:38] <DanielRichman> and a reasonable bit of power
[21:38] <sbasuita> pffff
[21:38] <DanielRichman> you're gonna have fun controlling them
[21:38] <sbasuita> multiple pics
[21:38] <sbasuita> ; P
[21:38] <DanielRichman> cause unless you just wanna have all on or all off, you're gonna need help
[21:38] <sbasuita> like ipc but with hardware
[21:38] <DanielRichman> just no
[21:38] <DanielRichman> get a decent avr
[21:38] <DanielRichman> some of the big ones have a tonne of gpios. then multiplex
[21:39] <sbasuita> er... not enough gpio
[21:39] <DanielRichman> at 16hz you won't notice
[21:39] <sbasuita> mmm
[21:39] <sbasuita> hardest part is wiring up
[21:39] <sbasuita> needs to be mahoosive though
[21:39] <sbasuita> ; P
[21:39] <DanielRichman> and you'd need a big pcb for 100*100
[21:39] <DanielRichman> perhaps you could just do a strip rather than a square
[21:39] <DanielRichman> like the display bars
[21:39] <sbasuita> nah
[21:40] <sbasuita> needs to be 16:9
[21:40] <DanielRichman> riiight
[21:40] <DanielRichman> colour or monocrome?
[21:40] <sbasuita> =/
[21:40] <sbasuita> rgb
[21:40] <sbasuita> just tripled the workload ; D
[21:40] <DanielRichman> it gets better by the second
[21:40] <DanielRichman> you did realise that blue LEDs are an absolute biatch
[21:40] <sbasuita> why?
[21:40] <DanielRichman> we don't have bucket loads of them because they're expensive
[21:40] <DanielRichman> gold parts I believe
[21:41] <DanielRichman> basically it's easy peasy to make a red, green or yellow led
[21:41] <DanielRichman> but blue and white require some expensive chemicals
[21:41] <DanielRichman> I think it's gold but not 100% sure
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> nope
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> blue were very expensive
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> they're a fair bit cheaper now
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> (than they were)
[21:42] <DanielRichman> hmm
[21:42] <DanielRichman> perhaps, if you're looking for some fun with a soldering iron, you could use SMD LEDS. much smaller, so less expensive on the PCB side
[21:42] <DanielRichman> and you'd get a decent rgb blend as they'd be closer I reckon
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Blue LEDs are also about the most efficient
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> you get 50% for some big one
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> s
[21:43] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, face it, it's a bad idea
[21:43] <sbasuita> great idea
[21:44] <DanielRichman> I appreciate the novelty
[21:44] <DanielRichman> but it's just an absolute pain
[21:44] <DanielRichman> and the result won't be that great
[21:44] <DanielRichman> to be honest
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[21:44] <DanielRichman> rgb is a bad idea
[21:44] <DanielRichman> monochrome... maybe
[21:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 448 leds for 20 quid
[21:44] <sbasuita> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=681
[21:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, rubbish deal
[21:45] <sbasuita> yeh but less soldering
[21:45] <sbasuita> ; P
[21:45] <DanielRichman> oh wait, a matrix?
[21:45] <DanielRichman> not too bad
[21:45] <DanielRichman> shipping from america though /yawn
[21:46] <sbasuita> too expensive stil
[21:46] <sbasuita> not big enough
[21:46] <DanielRichman> haha
[21:46] <DanielRichman> why the sudden desire for a big led display?
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> go to ebay
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> type in 1000 led
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> 1000 for about $20-$30 with free ship
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> blue, red, or green
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> because chicks dig LEDs - I mean look - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/15-COLOR-LED-KIT-Honda-CBR-1000-Super-Hawk-RVT-954-RR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4a97ab1acdQQitemZ320372153037QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories the picture proves it!
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[22:04] <jcoxon> oooo WolframAlpha is online
[22:05] <rjharrison> yep good for stats population uk
[22:05] <rjharrison> type in your birthday
[22:06] <rjharrison> 25 nov 1971
[22:06] <rjharrison> me :(
[22:06] <sbasuita> interesting
[22:20] <DanielRichman> hmm. did you know you can access an ip address in it's long-integer form? for example
[22:20] <DanielRichman> http://3512067431/
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[22:24] <SpeedEvil> depends on your socket library
[22:25] <DanielRichman> indeed
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[22:28] Action: jcoxon continues his quest for mac users
[22:29] <jcoxon> any one free to test my latest dmg
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[22:34] <jcoxon> oh well, night all
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[22:54] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:56] <edmoore> report finished
[22:56] <edmoore> wooosa
[22:56] <Laurenceb> report?
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[00:00] --- Tue May 19 2009