highaltitude.log.20090514

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[01:30] <natrium42> XD
[01:35] <Laurenceb> right I've got i2c working... kind of
[01:35] <Laurenceb> need to make the code efficient now
[01:35] <Laurenceb> the ublox documentation kind of sucks
[01:41] <natrium42> neat
[01:41] <natrium42> so you're on schedule for the launch?
[01:44] <Laurenceb> well I'm not sure if rjharrison is launching
[01:44] <Laurenceb> which reminds me - I should check the predictor
[01:48] <Laurenceb> no the weather is dreadful
[01:48] <Laurenceb> dont think we can launch at all
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[02:22] <natrium42> :(
[03:51] Action: stilldavid is radio shopping
[03:52] <stilldavid> any recommendations on an inexpensive ground radio?
[04:15] <Laurenceb> aha got it
[04:15] <Laurenceb> 2 problems - stack/heap collision and the bootloader screwng up
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[08:36] <jcoxon> morning all
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[09:03] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[09:03] <edmoore> morning jcoxon
[09:03] <jcoxon> how are the projects?
[09:04] <edmoore> am working on the image compressor today mainly
[09:04] <edmoore> 11-4 in the dept
[09:04] <edmoore> then probably this evening
[09:04] <edmoore> then I'll have a crack at the digital logic sim
[09:05] <jcoxon> no rest then
[09:05] <edmoore> nope
[09:05] <edmoore> want to start on some hardware for a yaw-stabilised payload with fergus too
[09:05] <edmoore> although he's a bit snowed-under with exams
[09:06] <jcoxon> yeah, haven't heard from fergus for a long time
[09:06] <edmoore> he had a wobbly mock exam I think and has decided to go underground for a bit
[09:07] <jcoxon> guess thats the point of mock exams
[09:07] Action: jcoxon looks forward to a time with no exams
[09:07] <edmoore> same
[09:07] <edmoore> i have no more supervisions now
[09:08] <jcoxon> i have a lot of exams left :-(
[09:09] <edmoore> 0!!!!
[09:09] <edmoore> weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[09:11] <jcoxon> guess CUSF is all shut down right now
[09:11] <edmoore> building up again
[09:11] <edmoore> but it has been for the last few weeks, yeah
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[09:12] <Laurenceb> yo
[09:12] <Laurenceb> my homies
[09:12] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[09:12] <jcoxon> oh dear
[09:12] <jcoxon> ummm no launch this weekend
[09:12] <jcoxon> winds are terrible
[09:12] <jcoxon> i forecasted to early - sorry
[09:14] <Laurenceb> yeah
[09:14] <Laurenceb> I've got the ublox working with i2c
[09:14] <Laurenceb> kind of...
[09:15] <Laurenceb> it hangs every 10 seconds or so
[09:15] <jcoxon> hehe, 'kind of...'
[09:15] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, it might be worth getting something with 2 uarts
[09:15] <Laurenceb> well you can throw a watchdog timer at it
[09:15] <Laurenceb> avoiding uarts is a good move imo
[09:15] <jcoxon> but a 'kind of' working gps is never a good idea
[09:16] <Laurenceb> hehe
[09:16] <Laurenceb> well there must be some reason for the buggy behaviour
[09:16] <Laurenceb> need more investigation
[09:17] <Laurenceb> the documentation is quite flaky
[09:17] <Laurenceb> I'll probably reflash it with new firmware
[09:18] <Laurenceb> the annoying thig is the RTOS onboard the ublox leads to quite high timing granularity
[09:19] <Laurenceb> it'd be a lot nicer from my point of view if that could be avoided
[09:20] <jcoxon> rob and i have made quite a bit of progress with the new dl-fldigi code
[09:20] <Laurenceb> an open source gps is called for :P
[09:20] <Laurenceb> ok
[09:20] <Laurenceb> well I'll be flying UM12s
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[10:02] <jcoxon> hi JRLA
[10:02] <JRLA> hello
[10:03] <JRLA> people here fly rc helis?
[10:03] <jcoxon> mainly high altitude balloons and rockets
[10:03] <jcoxon> i think there are one or two who are interested in helis
[10:03] <Laurenceb> moi
[10:03] <JRLA> oh damn.. you guys are kooks
[10:03] <JRLA> high altitude balloons and rockets?
[10:04] <Laurenceb> indeed
[10:04] <jcoxon> JRLA, reaching altitudes of about 30km
[10:04] <jcoxon> (unmanned of course!)
[10:04] <JRLA> where do you guys do it?
[10:04] <jcoxon> quite a few people are in the UK here
[10:04] <JRLA> you must live by some big open spaces
[10:04] <jcoxon> but there are many groups in the US how launch balloons
[10:05] <jcoxon> who*
[10:05] <jcoxon> its best not to launch near cities, here in the UK our main issue is avoiding landing in the sea
[10:06] <JRLA> Laurenceb, you fly rc crafts?
[10:06] <Laurenceb> not really
[10:06] <jcoxon> JRLA, http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/2961139529/in/set-72157608235936214/ for example
[10:06] <Laurenceb> I've got a few hours flying experience tops
[10:07] <JRLA> oh wow
[10:09] <jcoxon> yeah, pictures like that are why we do it :-)
[10:09] <JRLA> you guys use glow plugs?
[10:09] <JRLA> rockets engines huh
[10:09] <Laurenceb> I've alwqys used electric
[10:09] <Laurenceb> interesting layering on that photo
[10:10] <jcoxon> JRLA, thats just using helium balloons
[10:10] <Laurenceb> wonder if its the nonlinearity of the camera
[10:10] <Laurenceb> or if you can see the troposhere and stratosphere there
[10:10] <jcoxon> JRLA, there are a few people who are going to launch a rocket from a balloon :-)
[10:11] <JRLA> that picture, ive seen it before
[10:11] <JRLA> AP picked it up
[10:11] <jcoxon> yeah a number of groups have been in the news recently
[10:11] <jcoxon> some guys from spain about a month ago
[10:11] <JRLA> thats people form this #?
[10:12] <jcoxon> yup
[10:12] <JRLA> wow
[10:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3506045391/sizes/l/ <-- is that the 169MHz?
[10:12] <jcoxon> they aren't on right now :-)
[10:12] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, yes
[10:12] <Laurenceb> neat
[10:16] Action: Laurenceb is pondering a different approach to the overwelmingly large telescope
[10:17] <Laurenceb> few thousand ~10cm reflectors, then fibre optics to connect them
[10:17] <Laurenceb> wonder if anyone has considered this...
[10:26] <edmoore> see you chaps later
[10:26] <edmoore> lab time
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[10:34] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, how fiddly is the connector on the gs406?
[10:34] <Laurenceb> its somderable
[10:34] <Laurenceb> I soldered a cable onto it
[10:35] <Laurenceb> you need to epoxy the wires on
[10:36] <jcoxon> its a shame its so flddly
[10:36] <jcoxon> i've been looking at the ublox engineering samples
[10:36] <jcoxon> and thinking about a more user friendly board
[10:36] <Laurenceb> its nice and small
[10:37] <Laurenceb> you could make a breakout for the connector
[10:39] <jcoxon> pah - bingo http://www3.computeruniverse.net/urlmapper2.asp?mapurl=/products/e90280018/d3/reviews/navilock-nl-507ttl-u-blox-ttl-modul.asp&urlmapped=true
[10:40] <Laurenceb> bah LEA4
[10:41] <jcoxon> yeah but for the price!
[10:46] <Laurenceb> it has a backup battery
[10:46] <Laurenceb> I need to add one to mine
[10:47] <jcoxon> as an option to replace silly lassens' they look pretty damn good
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[11:08] <Laurenceb> hi steve
[11:09] <G8KHW> yo
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[11:17] <Laurenceb> any photos from your last flight?
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[11:24] <Laurenceb> G8KHW: you flew something recently didnt you?
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[12:27] <G8KHW> yep - it was a camera test
[12:40] <rjharrison> hi G8KHW
[12:40] <rjharrison> Any news?
[12:41] <G8KHW> not at the mo - thinking of a limited launch monday
[12:41] <rjharrison> Ok cool we will be working on a new version of the client might be ready for test on Monday
[12:42] <G8KHW> ok np
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[13:36] <trialex> Hey guys. Anyone got any experience with OpenTracker+ ??
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> I think most peeps who have used aprs have homebrewed
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> also - most here are uint he UK - maybe wait around.
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> more pop in occasionally
[13:43] <Laurenceb> hi SpeedEvil
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> hi
[13:43] <Laurenceb> I'm interested in the hammerhead...
[13:43] Action: SpeedEvil is cooking.
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: so am I
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: but I have no info really other than that on the wiki page
[13:43] <Laurenceb> is the openmoko 1973 still obtainable?
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> no
[13:43] <Laurenceb> it looks like the protocol has been hacked
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> it has
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> whrre?
[13:43] <Laurenceb> just a sec
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> it's in the iphone 3g IIRC
[13:45] <Laurenceb> http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/satscan/
[13:45] <Laurenceb> if that works its no big deal to get position
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> oh - position is easy - there is a arm binary
[13:46] <Laurenceb> sure
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> from memory, that code sort of works
[13:46] <Laurenceb> but its a binary
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> it finds sats
[13:46] <Laurenceb> its limited
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> the probem is that that's a fraction of the problem
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> you then have to work out how the chip is setup to correlate, and output it, aand the setup of the on-chip integrators and stuff
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> we were a long time at that time off getting psuedoranges out of it
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> the chip does all of the nasty hard-realtime stuff, which we hadn't really figured out
[13:48] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:48] <Laurenceb> hmm prob faster to build your own on an spartan3
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> well - the chip is _lots_ lower power of course - but then again you can't get them
[13:53] <Laurenceb> you can buy an iphone
[13:53] <Laurenceb> and desolder it
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> 'my gps doesn't work'
[13:54] <Laurenceb> haha
[13:54] <Laurenceb> take it back and get a refund
[14:00] <Laurenceb> I've been trying to get my ublox working on i2c... just about running
[14:00] <Laurenceb> annyoingly the weather is too windy for a launch this weekend
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> :/
[14:02] <Laurenceb> I'm tempted to stick it on the rogallo
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> as a payload, or gps
[14:02] <Laurenceb> as gps
[14:03] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:imgp0191.jpg?cache=cache
[14:03] <Laurenceb> it would just fit in where the antenna is atm
[14:03] <Laurenceb> vertically
[14:03] <Laurenceb> the power supply is a bit in the way tho
[14:05] <Laurenceb> ideally I'd move the cutdown cable to the front then have the gps at the back, but the servo is in the way
[14:05] <Laurenceb> if the cutdown is on the front of the wings, its more aerodynamic during ascent
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[15:59] <SpeedEvil> lo l
[15:59] <Laurenceb> local oscillator 1 ?
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> 'lo Laurenceb
[16:02] Action: SpeedEvil has a cold, and doesn't feel like typing much.
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> cold/flu
[16:03] <Laurenceb> :(
[16:03] <Laurenceb> hopefully not swine flu
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> don't think so.
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> just annoying coughing ATM.
[16:12] <Laurenceb> grr wish the weather was ok
[16:12] <Laurenceb> I'm ok to do a launch
[16:14] <Laurenceb> I'm so tempted to stick the ulox on the rogallo
[16:14] <Laurenceb> but ideally it needs the cutdown moving to the front of the wings as well
[16:15] <Laurenceb> if I could melt the nylon line directly, I could use a loop on the front of the wings
[16:15] <Laurenceb> and pass the line through with no risk on tangling
[16:15] <Laurenceb> but that would take... ceramic resistors :P
[16:16] <Laurenceb> ...maybe
[16:16] <Laurenceb> certainly needs about 350C
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[16:18] <Laurenceb> hi
[16:18] <sbasuita> afternoon
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: sorry - still not found
[16:23] <Laurenceb> ok nvm
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I basically boxed all my electronics stuff into 40 or so 30l boxes which are now in the attic
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> they are nominally sorted, but the resistors aren't in the expecet box
[16:24] <Laurenceb> wheres a good place to buy weird resistors?
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> ebay!
[16:32] Action: SpeedEvil goes to look.
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-dale/cw0014r000je70/wirewound-resistor/dp/1155042?_requestid=681685
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> farnell have operating temp as one of the parameters
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> in tehir parametric
[16:34] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:35] <Laurenceb> but the power is too high
[16:35] <Laurenceb> its going to take too much current
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-dale/cw01012r00je73/resistor-10w-12r-5/dp/1470054
[16:39] <Laurenceb> 10W ?!
[16:39] <Laurenceb> I want about 0.125W
[16:39] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe I could wrap a resistor in kapton
[16:39] <sbasuita> Aren't resistors rated in ohms, not watts?
[16:40] <Laurenceb> ohm, watts, max v, size, price....
[16:40] <sbasuita> =/
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: http://uk.farnell.com/tyco-electronics/fcb23r3k/resistor-2w-5-3r3/dp/1173916 looks like what I ordered
[16:43] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:43] Nick change: kingj -> KingJ
[16:43] <Laurenceb> that gets nice and toasty
[16:44] Action: Laurenceb looks for a larger one
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> yeah - 350C at the power rating
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> as I read it
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> the 4W version gets +200C at 1.5w
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> I suspect they may get somewhat warmer at 10mB
[16:47] <Laurenceb> its a 2W version as well
[16:47] <Laurenceb> you have to consider the thermal mass
[16:47] <Laurenceb> so maybe its not an overkill come to think about it
[16:47] <Laurenceb> but still it'll be drawing 2 amps
[16:47] <Laurenceb> thats a bit steep
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[16:52] <Laurenceb> still it may work on something a little higher spec
[16:52] <Laurenceb> i.e. high mass with more payload
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> what bat have you
[16:54] <Laurenceb> 2C 200mah lipo cells
[16:54] <Laurenceb> *2000mah
[16:54] <Laurenceb> so theoretically 4A
[16:55] <Laurenceb> but I dont want to draw crazy amounts of current at low temperature
[16:55] <Laurenceb> 1A peak
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[16:58] <Laurenceb> my exisitng design works on 20 times rated power
[16:58] <Laurenceb> that would use 7 times rated power
[16:58] <Laurenceb> and has higher thermal mass
[16:58] <Laurenceb> so its going to take longer to work
[16:59] <Laurenceb> anyway I'm off, cya
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> I was asuming simply standard power
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> I.E. 4W
[16:59] <Laurenceb> I go way over for a few seconds
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> Assuming it's got the thermal constant of brick
[16:59] <Laurenceb> for a nice fast cutdown
[16:59] <Laurenceb> anyway, cya
[17:00] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[17:01] <SpeedEvil> 1.5J/K
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> or 1c/s
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[17:10] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-dale/rwr81s49r9fr/resistor-1w-49r9/dp/1692568http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-dale/rwr81s49r9fr/resistor-1w-49r9/dp/1692568http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-dale/rwr81s49r9fr/resistor-1w-49r9/dp/1692568
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-dale/rwr81s49r9fr/resistor-1w-49r9/dp/1692568
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[18:06] <Mat> roar!
[18:07] <sbasuita> : O
[18:07] <Hiena> ' evening!
[18:07] <Mat> hi
[18:08] <Mat> hey simrun!
[18:08] <sbasuita> o/
[18:09] Nick change: Snomi -> Sn0mi
[18:09] Nick change: Sn0mi -> Snomi
[18:09] Nick change: Mat -> Bluebear
[18:10] Nick change: Bluebear -> Captain
[18:10] Nick change: Captain -> CaptainBluebear
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[18:17] <amar> hi
[18:17] <sbasuita> amar, amar!
[18:17] <sbasuita> : P
[18:17] <amar> : q
[18:17] <amar> no
[18:17] <amar> lol
[18:18] <CaptainBluebear> amar!!!
[18:18] <amar> hi
[18:18] <DanielRichman> amar, use your enter key sparingly
[18:18] <CaptainBluebear> amar there's someone called regenschein whos read the books!!
[18:18] <CaptainBluebear> join #not-math
[18:19] <CaptainBluebear> i was talking to him about them but then ppl started to talk about jesus
[18:19] <CaptainBluebear> it was like "he has trouble eating skittles, they keep falling through his palms"
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[18:33] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:34] <sbasuita> o/
[18:36] <Laurenceb> hmm nebula is back in business
[18:36] <sbasuita> huh?
[18:37] <Laurenceb> http://www.nebula-aerospace.com/
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[18:49] <natrium42> shalom
[18:49] <sbasuita> aloha
[18:50] <stilldavid> salutations
[18:50] <Laurenceb> http://jewsdid911.ytmnd.com/
[18:53] <Hiena> Laurenceb, okay, but the question is: Who killed Bambi?
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> thumper.
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[19:01] <jnd> I love the first person video from spacewalks
[19:02] <Laurenceb> http://blueballfixed.ytmnd.com/
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[21:20] <sbasuita> Has anybody done any powered high altitude launches?
[21:20] <sbasuita> (excluding rockets)
[21:20] <SpeedEvil1> yes
[21:20] <SpeedEvil1> though not I think here
[21:20] <SpeedEvil1> oh
[21:21] <SpeedEvil1> actually - I'm unsure that wass powered, but it was a glider
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[21:35] <rjharrison> Ping edmoore
[21:36] <sbasuita> http://www.twitscoop.com/
[21:37] <sbasuita> <3 real time search
[21:37] <Laurenceb> ah wonderfull
[21:37] Action: Laurenceb just fried his ublox
[21:37] <rjharrison> 1/4 wave = driven = 95% radial 100%
[21:38] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, you have a habit of frying chips don't you?
[21:38] <Laurenceb> no
[21:38] <Laurenceb> actually it still works
[21:38] <Laurenceb> - uart
[21:38] <Laurenceb> hmm
[21:38] <sbasuita> wasn't there two trimbles before?
[21:38] <Laurenceb> I spilt coffee on it
[21:38] <Laurenceb> no
[21:39] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe I should make sure its dry properly
[21:39] <SpeedEvil1> Laurenceb: turn it off
[21:39] <Laurenceb> yes I did
[21:39] <SpeedEvil1> Laurenceb: open as much as you can
[21:39] <Laurenceb> then died it
[21:39] <rjharrison> sbasuita thats me
[21:39] <Laurenceb> dried
[21:39] <SpeedEvil1> Laurenceb: wash in hot soapy water
[21:39] <sbasuita> oh
[21:39] <sbasuita> ; P
[21:39] <SpeedEvil1> rinse in hot distilled
[21:39] <Laurenceb> hehe
[21:39] <SpeedEvil1> air-dry at 80C for a couple of hours
[21:39] <SpeedEvil1> works surprisingly well
[21:39] <SpeedEvil1> s/couple/few/
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[21:43] <Laurenceb> hmm what are the chances it fried the i2c hardware
[21:43] <Laurenceb> its odd, i2c stopped working
[21:43] <Laurenceb> but uart was ok
[21:44] <SpeedEvil1> IME low
[21:44] <Laurenceb> maybe theres a bit of water got in under the module
[21:45] <SpeedEvil1> as long as you don't keep it powered on too long, or high voltages are involved, a lot of hardware comes back OK after the above procedure
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[21:45] <rjharrison> Ping edmoore
[21:45] <rjharrison> 1/4 wave = driven = 95% radial 100%?
[21:45] <edmoore> hi
[21:45] <rjharrison> hi
[21:46] <rjharrison> lol
[21:46] <rjharrison> the lengths
[21:46] <rjharrison> 70/4 = driven
[21:46] <rjharrison> 70/4*.95 = DRIVEN
[21:46] <rjharrison> and the radial ar just 70/4?
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[21:54] <rjharrison> hi G8KHW
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[22:07] <edmoore> rjharrison: you're talking in another language
[22:07] <edmoore> so the 0.95 is the velocity factor of the wire?
[22:08] <edmoore> well, you're not talking in another lnaguage, i'm just having a slow day
[22:08] <edmoore> trying to cut down on coffee and keep passing o9ut as a result
[22:08] <edmoore> ok, so the radials can be pretty much whatever length you want
[22:08] <edmoore> you're trying to create a theoretically infinite perfectly conductive plane
[22:08] <edmoore> to get more energy into the antenna
[22:09] <edmoore> so longer and more populous the better, i guess
[22:09] <edmoore> heading to bar for a sun-downer
[22:09] <edmoore> but make them >70/4
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[22:20] <Laurenceb> aha got it
[22:20] <Laurenceb> multilayered pcbs :P
[22:20] <Laurenceb> well I think anyway - a bit of solder had bribged the ground layer at the side of the module as I soldered on the i2c wires
[22:20] <Laurenceb> explains why it was being glitchy... maybe
[22:21] <SpeedEvil1> :)
[22:24] <Laurenceb> yeah works again
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[22:30] <SpeedEvil1> one proble is that corrosion happens due to hygroscopic effects of the 'dried out' spills
[22:32] <Laurenceb> hmm
[22:33] <Laurenceb> theres copper ground plane exposed at the side of the modules pcb
[22:33] <Laurenceb> it was shorting on that
[22:37] <SpeedEvil1> :)
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[22:39] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
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[22:42] <Laurenceb> very small, microns really
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[22:54] <rjharrison> !last jcoxon
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[22:58] <natrium42> rjharrison, hey
[22:59] <natrium42> how is the weather outlook?
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[23:12] <Laurenceb> poor
[23:12] <Laurenceb> becoming poorer
[23:12] <Laurenceb> rather like me browsing the sparkfun website
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> sparkfun needs a buddy system.
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> 'only authorised to buy with approval of buddy'
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> or a cooling off period.
[23:32] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
[00:00] --- Fri May 15 2009