highaltitude.log.20090508

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[00:01] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: how do I find this chat on skype?
[00:18] <jcoxon> okay Laurenceb
[00:48] <Laurenceb> grrrr
[00:48] <Laurenceb> olimexs demo code uses iar compiler
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[01:10] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, you still around?
[01:11] <Laurenceb> yes
[01:11] <jcoxon> seems to be that hte conference is starting
[01:12] <Laurenceb> arg
[01:12] <Laurenceb> its not working
[01:12] <jcoxon> did you get the new link?
[01:13] <Laurenceb> sound issues
[01:13] <Laurenceb> call refused
[01:14] <Laurenceb> my mic doesnt work
[01:14] <Laurenceb> :P
[01:14] <jcoxon> can you hear
[01:14] <Laurenceb> yes
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[01:32] <Laurenceb> suggest explosive cutdown?
[01:32] <Laurenceb> :P
[01:32] <Laurenceb> ok
[01:33] <jcoxon> :-)
[01:41] <Laurenceb> natrium42: carry on
[01:41] <Laurenceb> lots of log
[01:41] <Laurenceb> *lag
[01:41] <jcoxon> log!
[01:41] <jcoxon> noooo log
[01:41] <jcoxon> hehe
[01:42] <natrium42> it's like a minute of lag
[01:42] <jcoxon> yeah
[01:46] <Laurenceb> natrium42: you get that?
[01:46] <natrium42> yeah, and i spoke
[01:46] <natrium42> :S
[01:46] <natrium42> maybe you will hear it in 1 min
[01:46] <natrium42> XD
[01:47] <jcoxon> wow its incredibly slow
[01:48] <jcoxon> nothing yet
[01:48] <natrium42> meh
[02:03] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
[02:04] <Laurenceb> over 9000
[02:04] <natrium42> lol
[02:05] Action: Laurenceb goes back to building rogallo bearing units
[02:42] <jcoxon> okay to bed...
[02:42] <natrium42> nite jcoxon
[02:42] <jcoxon> natrium42, will chat over the weekend about plans and such
[02:42] <natrium42> thanks for staying up :)
[02:42] <natrium42> yah
[02:42] <jcoxon> np
[02:42] <jcoxon> night
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[02:42] <natrium42> nite
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[08:52] <edmoore> good morning all
[08:52] <edmoore> natrium42: about?
[08:53] <natrium42> yo
[08:57] <edmoore> yo
[08:57] <edmoore> how went it?
[08:58] <natrium42> pretty informative
[08:58] <natrium42> although i had huge lag, so i didn't end up talking much
[08:59] <natrium42> well, it's 4 am, g'nite
[09:00] <edmoore> ah ok
[09:00] <edmoore> gosh
[09:00] <edmoore> commitement to the waking cause
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[09:19] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[09:19] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[09:20] <edmoore> what missed I?
[09:20] <jcoxon> ummm it was an iterstimg chat
[09:20] <jcoxon> interesting
[09:22] <edmoore> uhuh
[09:22] <jcoxon> one sec
[09:22] <edmoore> np
[09:22] <jcoxon> so yeah, there was general introductions
[09:23] <jcoxon> then the PBH guy explained their project etc
[09:23] <jcoxon> Bill brown asked lots of questions concerning their balloon
[09:23] <edmoore> everyone cowered in awe as he spoke?
[09:23] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:24] <jcoxon> it was an impressive collection of balloon people
[09:24] <jcoxon> basically the FAA and Nav Canada/Transport Canada are concerned about us flying in their north atlantic airways
[09:25] <jcoxon> as they fly planes in a very tight formation with little seperation
[09:25] <jcoxon> and would rather if possible avoid us being between 30k and 40k
[09:25] <jcoxon> they certainly don't care if we are above 60k
[09:25] <SpeedEvil> ft
[09:25] <SpeedEvil> ?
[09:25] <jcoxon> and 'unofficially' wouldn't be too unhappy if above 45k
[09:25] <edmoore> there's rarely much going on above there though, as you know
[09:26] <edmoore> ah ok
[09:26] <jcoxon> as planes never go above 45k
[09:26] <jcoxon> they also are a lot happier if we say flew east from the US towards africa as thats a lot lighter on traffice
[09:27] <jcoxon> newfoundland apparently is hte busiest air route in the world
[09:27] <jcoxon> without radar guidance or something
[09:28] <edmoore> why don't they have radar guidance? They could commission an AWACS their full time or something
[09:29] <jcoxon> so the plan for the next few months is to liase with the FAA and Nav Canada and put in a protocol for how their AT Controllers to respond to balloon flights
[09:29] <jcoxon> and we are thinking that we should propose to them a minmum flight system
[09:29] <jcoxon> with HF and also SPOT
[09:29] <jcoxon> so that they are able to track the balloon
[09:30] <jcoxon> (they suggested transponders which was met with a big no)
[09:30] <edmoore> good
[09:31] <edmoore> ok well it sounds like it was productive
[09:31] <edmoore> I'm about to dash back to cam now
[09:31] <edmoore> I'll ttyl
[09:31] <jcoxon> okay cya
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[09:51] <rjharrison> Wow jcoxon: I bet you're tired
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[18:34] <rjharrison> Hi all
[18:34] <rjharrison> Just brought a house
[18:34] <rjharrison> well a wreck
[18:34] <rjharrison> http://www.yorkshiresfinest.org/property/1259555
[18:36] <rjharrison> edmoore: You got that radio on HF yet
[18:37] <rjharrison> You have had almost 24hrs since your exams finished
[18:38] <rjharrison> Wakey wakey #HA
[18:39] <edmoore> hi rjharrison
[18:39] <edmoore> i've had a busy 24hrs!
[18:39] <edmoore> will do soon though
[18:39] <edmoore> could go to the shack
[18:41] <rjharrison> Np
[18:41] <rjharrison> You enjoy some time off
[18:41] <rjharrison> I wnat to have a play with 80m again tonight see if we can get voice working
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[19:09] <natrium42> hi
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[19:58] <Laurenceb> hi
[19:58] <Laurenceb> wow 26
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[20:04] <sbasuita> Somebody needs to figure out what the record is so we can have some fun.
[20:05] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, can't we ask zeusbot?
[20:05] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we can hack the logs to figure it out
[20:05] <sbasuita> or... maybe not
[20:06] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, that might just work
[20:06] <sbasuita> would have to have a starting point some time in the past when we knew how many people were on
[20:06] <sbasuita> else joins/parts are meaningless
[20:06] <DanielRichman> noone can stay on for all the time that zeusbot logs - not even zeusbot
[20:06] <DanielRichman> besides, to double check, it should arrive at 25 for today
[20:06] <sbasuita> it wouldn't work
[20:07] <sbasuita> though i haven't thought about it much tbh
[20:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i guess you could analyse all the logs from the beginning
[20:07] <sbasuita> and see what the lowest value is
[20:07] <sbasuita> and use that as an offset
[20:07] <sbasuita> because it should be negative
[20:08] <sbasuita> by lowest value i mean start at zero and have the population increase for a join and decrease for a part
[20:08] <natrium42> sbasuita, do you guys need any PCBs made?
[20:09] <natrium42> i am getting a panel made and there's room
[20:09] <sbasuita> natrium42, that would be very nice
[20:09] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, every time zeusbot crashes the value is reset
[20:09] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what do you think?
[20:09] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, natrium42, I don't think we have a pcb ready to go right now. And single sided at school should be fine
[20:09] <natrium42> sbasuita, if you get something to me before monday, then i can add it
[20:09] <DanielRichman> but thanks for the offer
[20:09] <natrium42> k
[20:10] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you sure? We don't have to have a full pcb -- we can make some little ones to connect the gps/radio to a board...
[20:11] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I'm sure....
[20:12] <DanielRichman> the only thing I can possibly think of is connecting the transistors without bending the legs, or having a board to do that, but that's not worth the P&P from canada
[20:12] <natrium42> $2 per square inch, $4 airmail to UK
[20:16] <DanielRichman> Hmm. Am I missing something? You can get a super-cheapo new phone for <£20, yet GSM modules seem to be so much more expensive... I know, mass production and all, but still?
[20:18] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, doesn't really surprise me tbh
[20:18] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, mass production is _very_ powerful
[20:18] <natrium42> maybe if you ordered the modules in quantity? :P
[20:18] <natrium42> prototype quantities are always more expensive
[20:18] <DanielRichman> indeed, but the circuitry and stuff behind GSM must be cheap-ish?
[20:19] <Laurenceb> phones are subsidised usually
[20:19] <DanielRichman> how open is the GSM spec and the most basic components required to implement it?
[20:19] <natrium42> it's very complex
[20:19] <natrium42> but they have been integrating it more and more
[20:20] <DanielRichman> hmm.
[20:20] <Laurenceb> yeah couple of chips usually
[20:20] <natrium42> also, RF design is icky
[20:20] <Laurenceb> the GSM itself probably costs a few pounds
[20:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, not to mention that there is a low demand for the gsm modules we would b
[20:22] <sbasuita> by*
[20:22] <sbasuita> buy*
[20:22] <sbasuita> ; P
[20:22] <DanielRichman> besides, a phone does so much more than a gsm module - even a basic phone.
[20:22] <DanielRichman> perhaps I will just hack an old nokia
[20:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what for?
[20:22] <DanielRichman> Want to be able to text my home-server to have it restart itself & router if something bad happens while I am away
[20:23] <DanielRichman> bigass relay, arduino, phone, sorted.... in theory
[20:24] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, or just use ssh over gsm
[20:24] <sbasuita> or 3g
[20:24] <sbasuita> or whatever
[20:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what I'll do is have the arduino connect via USB to the computer, and then upon receiving a text it will first try to soft restart it via a daemon communicating with the arduino... but if it can't get through or it's the router that's the problem, it'll fire ACPI shutoff or cut the power or something appropriately nasty. Perhaps I could have it REISUB? How complex is PS/2 ;)
[20:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, how often does your computer/router hard-lockup?
[20:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, as often as I go on holiday. Seriously. It never goes wrong while I'm here
[20:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, why does it lock up?
[20:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, last time I had a micro-powercut that busted the router: I'm guessing that the powercut was so short (really really really short) that the PSU on the server kept it fine, but the router wasn't happy at all
[20:29] <DanielRichman> it just stopped. lights out, nothing
[20:30] <DanielRichman> out comes the power lead, back in, sorted.
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, there's no point rescuing your server if the router is dead
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, and the server dosen't randomly die
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so just admit that using sms has no practical value, and you are doing it for the sake of it ;)
[20:31] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, oh but it does. And the device will also be able to control the router, or at least, power cycle it.
[20:31] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, why would you want to power cycle your router?
[20:31] <DanielRichman> because that will sort the majority of problems
[20:32] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i find it hard to believe that you get powercuts
[20:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you are arguing for the sake of arguing, again. The idea is that virtually all problems can be solved by ssh, but when that's inaccessible the device will do the best it can to rescue it.
[20:34] <DanielRichman> Most of the problems I have had so far *could* be fixed by a power cycle - although they would be easily fixed by other methods, the power cycle is a generic way to blanket bomb problems. For example, something bad happens and a service needs restarting to shake it into action. Obviously I could add complication by texting "restart x", or I could just power cycle.
[20:34] <DanielRichman> The router disconnects and won't reconnect. There's a fixmebutton in the control panel... or I could power cycle
[20:35] <DanielRichman> The fact is that I have had problems. And this would have been a solution.
[20:35] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, ok, well I don't see why your server's services would randomly break and fix themselves after power cycle. I guess the router thing is semi-useful though
[20:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, hehe: amar remembered to checksum his jaunty image before use, but then forgot to burn it before rebooting...
[20:39] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, hah
[20:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it's his typical style
[20:39] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, how is he going to partition?
[20:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, he got vista to shrink itself
[20:39] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, told him to go manual and use ext4
[20:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, cool. has he burnt the alternate cd then? 64bit?
[20:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no the gui
[20:40] <rjharrison> Evening guys
[20:40] <rjharrison> Exams over yet?
[20:40] <DanielRichman> evening rjharrison
[20:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, he is using 32bit because is dad said that even though his cpu supports 64 it hasn't got optimised buffer crap or something adn will have to do double voodoo
[20:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, basically his dad is clever and will help him ;)
[20:40] <sbasuita> rjharrison, week till they start
[20:41] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, great
[20:41] <DanielRichman> Internal exams though, nothing big
[20:41] <rjharrison> oh so your revising like mad then :)
[20:41] <sbasuita> rjharrison, starting this weekend
[20:41] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you said that last weekend
[20:41] <rjharrison> zeusbot help
[20:41] <rjharrison> zeusbot help!
[20:41] <rjharrison> !zeusbot help!
[20:41] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_syndrome
[20:41] <rjharrison> lol
[20:42] <rjharrison> zeusbot !help
[20:42] <sbasuita> zeusbot! help
[20:42] <sbasuita> zeusbot! help!?
[20:43] <sbasuita> zeusbot??
[20:43] <rjharrison> I'll get it to do someting in a minute
[20:43] <DanielRichman> lol
[20:43] <DanielRichman> /ping zeusbot
[20:43] <DanielRichman> that's one slow internet connection
[20:43] <rjharrison> zeusbot
[20:43] <rjharrison> help
[20:43] <rjharrison> yay
[20:43] <sbasuita> ITS ALIVE
[20:43] <sbasuita> !learn add daniel smells
[20:44] <sbasuita> : (
[20:44] <DanielRichman> lol
[20:44] <sbasuita> oops you already did that
[20:44] <rjharrison> ??foo
[20:44] <sbasuita> there should be an easter egg tehre
[20:45] <rjharrison> lol
[20:45] <rjharrison> it gets up set
[20:45] <DanielRichman> tell you what zeusbot really needs
[20:45] <DanielRichman> !rickroll sbasuita
[20:45] <sbasuita> !learn
[20:46] <sbasuita> !learn add daniel smells
[20:46] <sbasuita> naow!
[20:46] <sbasuita> zeusbot, you spelt definition wrong btw
[20:46] <sbasuita> heh
[20:46] <rjharrison> lol
[20:47] <DanielRichman> hmm
[20:47] <sbasuita> ? hoo?
[20:47] <rjharrison> Hey ho
[20:47] <DanielRichman> Interesting
[20:47] <DanielRichman> he responded to you before me
[20:47] <DanielRichman> well, it
[20:47] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, cant think of any more rhymes
[20:48] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, shame that we can't add spam definitions
[20:48] <DanielRichman> pathetic
[20:58] <natrium42> kick!
[20:58] <natrium42> :D
[20:58] Action: sbasuita goes to watch have i got news for you
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[21:14] <swilly> I was asking about antennas yesterday, and was curious if someone would share which model antenna they use (433Mhz) for the balloon payload.
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> homebuilt ones
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> work fine
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> length of coax/...
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[21:19] <swilly_> SpeedEvil, thanks - do you have to orient it in a specific way?
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> an omnidirectional antenna, pointed up works
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> a directional antenna would of course be better in terms of range, but that has to be pointed, and is usually reserved for the bottom end only
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> if that
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[21:41] <sbasuita> SpeedEvil, isn't "omnidirectional antenna" that can be "pointed up" a bit of an oxymoron? What sort of antenna would you use that would cover the entire sky?
[21:47] Action: SpeedEvil points to hairy balls.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> The hairy ball theorem says that's impossible
[21:47] <swilly_> I thought omnidirectiona antennas primarily radiated horizontally, or is this not much of an issue with a yagi on the ground?
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> you can't comb a hairy ball flat
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> horizontally is basically what you want
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> when it's overhead you're at much closer range
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> so it all works out
[21:48] <swilly_> ok :)
[21:49] <swilly_> do you think this antenna would be ok? http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=560
[21:50] <swilly_> (and of couse that radio modem)
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> you want to poke Laurenceb
[21:53] <Laurenceb> helo
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> he's trying to get one of those to work, and cuyrrently swearing at it
[21:54] <Laurenceb> me?
[21:54] <Laurenceb> it works
[21:54] <Laurenceb> just rather annoyingly
[21:54] <swilly_> I'm just completely new to this & want to get my first payload up sometime soon :)
[21:55] <Laurenceb> not sure on the range something in the order of 5Km to 100Km with a yagi
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> swilly_: I assume you don't have a UHF radio?
[21:55] <swilly_> nope
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> The 'easy' - well tested - solution
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> is a radiometrix module, which is a simple transmitter
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> 20 quid or so
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> and outputs 10mW on 433MHz, which is recieved by a sensitive UHF radio
[21:57] <sbasuita> swilly_, plus it's license exempt in the uk
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> however, this requires that you have the above one.
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> oh yeah
[21:57] <swilly_> How is that different from what I just posted? I will be send to repeat a TTL serial signal
[21:57] <swilly_> wow
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> swilly_: that one has smarts
[21:57] <swilly_> I don't think that was a sentence
[21:58] <swilly_> the radiometrix?
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> swilly_: and requires a similar modem to decode
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> the problem with that is that the canned modems you get for 20-40 quid are really quite noisy
[21:58] <swilly_> I will be purchasing a unit for the payload and one for the ground as well
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> and hence can't pick up the transmitter at nearly the same range as an expensive antenna
[21:58] <Laurenceb> the one from sparkfun isnt
[21:59] <Laurenceb> but its crippled by the firmware
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> (as a generalisation)
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> err
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> expensive reciever - not antenna
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> (where expensive is 100 quid on ebay)
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: would two um12s work for simple monodirectional streaming?
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: and if so - what range?
[22:00] <Laurenceb> yes, somewhere between 5 and 100km
[22:00] <Laurenceb> with a yagi
[22:01] <Laurenceb> I got 500m on the ground with wips
[22:01] <Laurenceb> but there were two buildings and a load of trees in the way
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> 5km is probably a bit little.
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> AIUI nobodies flown with that transmitter
[22:02] <sbasuita> What's the current solution for dragging google earth offline?
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> swilly_: where are you in thge UK?
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> sbasuita: use a 3G modem
[22:03] <swilly_> I'm actually in the USA
[22:03] <swilly_> just heard that you guys were more helpful than anyplace over here
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> Ah. So unlikely to be able to use the UK reciever network. (such as it is)
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.com/Icom-IC-471A-All-Mode-70cm-Tranceiver-Tech-Special_W0QQitemZ250418763120QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4e1f1570&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50 - for example
[22:10] <stilldavid> SpeedEvil: I'm still looking at radios too. I saw this one linked from somewhere http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/3187.html
[22:10] <stilldavid> what's to keep one from sending up a unit like that?
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> legality
[22:11] <stilldavid> what about in the US? ;)
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> I eunno
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> you'd need to investigate if it's legal
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> then work out how to use it to send a bitstream
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> also - will it work at -40C
[22:12] <stilldavid> from what I've read, amateur operators in the US have full privileges on their bands up to 50km, but I haven't found a definitive source
[22:13] <stilldavid> well, only the antenna has to, right?
[22:13] <stilldavid> they sell a 3.5mm headphone adapter for that radio, I could plug it directly to a soundcard and use the PC as a TNC, right?
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> In principle, yes
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> It depedns on the modulation
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> one of the reasons 'we' have been using the radiomeetrix is that it can be setup to be very spectrally efficient
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> 0 sends a frequency 425Hz below '1'
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> And you can ignore all other frequencies in the bandwidth other than those two
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> So you get pretty optimal noise performance
[22:15] <stilldavid> ah. which RM units are you using? I've looked through their site enough to make my head spin
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> If instead you send the tones frequency modulated, then you get much lower range AIUI
[22:15] <stilldavid> they need an "overview page" with everything on it for comparison
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> I don't eremember the model number - it should be on wiki - basically
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> it's a 433.075? MHz module, FM
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> But you feed it a bitstream, through a couple of divider resistors
[22:16] <stilldavid> cool, I can look it up
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> so it's sent 4.03V for 1, and 3.9V for 0
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> for example
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[22:17] <stilldavid> wait, so you feed it a bitstream and i outputs ...?
[22:17] <sbasuita> stilldavid, http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/ntx2nrx2.htm
[22:17] <sbasuita> that's the one we're using
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Which it modulates to 433.0753 and 433.0758 - for example
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> (exact numbers made up)
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[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Feed it a 50bps serial signal
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> from a UART
[22:18] <stilldavid> and use fldigi on the other end?
[22:18] <sbasuita> stilldavid, yes
[22:18] <sbasuita> stilldavid, generally we use RTTY
[22:23] <stilldavid> if I wanted something a bit higher-power, would something like http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/tx1h.htm
[22:23] <stilldavid> be functionally equivalent to the ntx2?
[22:24] <stilldavid> I'd go for the 144.39 Mhz band here in the US over the 433 Mhz
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[22:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.b3tards.com/u/0f5d4fb5778269107bf0/untitled-2.gif
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[22:59] <rjharrison> lol
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[23:11] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
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[23:40] <Laurenceb> hmm I've got a 7mm dowel rod and 8mm intenrnal diameter ball bearing unit
[23:40] <Laurenceb> whats the best way to fix it onto the dowel?
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[23:41] <SpeedEvil> you're not goingg to be doing any speed
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> what sort of dowel?
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> wood?
[23:42] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:42] <Laurenceb> its on the mini rogallo
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> I've used a teeny wrap of fiberglass, with some epoxy on before for that, worked well
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> though in that app, practically anything will do
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> old-t-shirt+epoxy forex
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> Or even tightly wrapped paper, with the ball race forced over.
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> (force the inside sleeve of the bearing, not the outside)
[23:46] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:46] <Laurenceb> I dont have any fibreglass on my
[23:47] <Laurenceb> arrg why did I epoxy on the previous bearing
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> though practically - for your app - even insulating tape will work fine
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.fibreglast.com/ - if feeling spendy
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> http://www.solarcomposites.com/ too
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> hotmelt composite also works well
[23:50] <Laurenceb> I'll leave the fibreglass out, its only a tiny job
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> yeah :)
[23:50] Action: SpeedEvil is considering basalt fibre for his windows.
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[23:50] <SpeedEvil> (stiffeners)
[00:00] --- Sat May 9 2009