highaltitude.log.20090505

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[11:27] <edmoore> morning all
[11:27] <edmoore> rjharrison: just sent a sort of half-reply around
[11:55] <rjharrison> Yo edmoore
[11:56] <edmoore> hi rjharrison
[11:56] <rjharrison> Just replied
[11:56] <edmoore> yup saw
[11:57] <rjharrison> A scanner would be cool
[11:57] <edmoore> yes agreed - just having a look to see if there are any
[11:57] <edmoore> cheap ones, anyway
[11:59] <rjharrison> The GPS eval card from SF emits a constant tone at 434.070
[11:59] <rjharrison> Which is too close for comfort from the radiometrix module
[12:00] <edmoore> what kind of power?
[12:00] <rjharrison> The emmission? I have no idea. S9 on my radio
[12:01] <rjharrison> The antenna is on the roof 4m away.
[12:01] <edmoore> wow. odd that it should produce that
[12:01] <rjharrison> Well it goes when I turn it off
[12:02] <rjharrison> Unless there is some weird interaction with the RM module
[12:04] <rjharrison> I'll investigate some moretonight
[12:05] <rjharrison> Just the eval bord on it's own on.
[12:05] <rjharrison> BTW I'm really pleased with the ICARUS II PCB
[12:06] <rjharrison> There are a few tweaks for V2 but on the whole it is fine.
[12:07] <rjharrison> Thinking battery power to iQ and TX RX for port1 in the iq where TSIP is emmitted
[12:07] <rjharrison> This will allow the iQ to be programmed whilst powered by the board
[12:07] <rjharrison> DOSonChip + MiniSD would be cool too
[12:08] <rjharrison> Not sure how to solder the DoC package though
[12:13] <edmoore> what is it?
[12:15] <rjharrison> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8226
[12:17] <rjharrison> Not sure how to solder the pins. Looks like a job for the hot air station.
[12:19] <edmoore> oh them
[12:19] <edmoore> nah you can do that fine with an iron
[12:19] <edmoore> give yourself large pads on the pcb
[12:20] <edmoore> and place the iron tip as close to the edge of the chip as you can get
[12:20] <edmoore> the pad will then conduct the heat to the solder under the chip
[12:20] <edmoore> use plenty of flux and you'll have no problem
[12:20] <rjharrison> Cool
[12:20] <rjharrison> Thanks for that
[12:21] <edmoore> though you know you can do fat with an avr
[12:21] <edmoore> laurenceb and natrium have tried it, i think
[12:21] <rjharrison> BTW should I get a flux pen and is there the equivalent to remove the brown residute from the PCB
[12:21] <edmoore> yes and yes
[12:21] <rjharrison> Hehe Yep but not on my small one
[12:21] <edmoore> any kind of rubbing alcohol will get rid of the residue
[12:22] <rjharrison> I may look into that at a later stage as it would be neater and cheaper
[12:22] <rjharrison> Might have to ramp up from 4MHz
[12:23] <edmoore> with a bigger avr you could probably do it all on the main flight computer - that would save space and money
[12:29] <rjharrison> Ok I may hold off the DoC and have a look at that
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[15:39] <jcoxon> hey all
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[16:02] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[16:03] <edmoore> hello
[16:03] <edmoore> what's up?
[16:06] <jcoxon> not much, you?
[16:07] <jcoxon> been reading about PBH's reason for delay
[16:16] <edmoore> sorry, it didn't ping
[16:16] <edmoore> jcoxon: tell em about the delay
[16:16] <edmoore> i saw on titter that it looked like FAA issues
[16:17] <jcoxon> yeah, it seems that FAA aren't too happy with a slow moving balloon
[16:17] <jcoxon> nor are canada
[16:17] <jcoxon> they are quite content if its above 60k ft
[16:17] <edmoore> which is annoyingly high
[16:17] <edmoore> where is your extra source of info?
[16:18] <jcoxon> got an email from them
[16:18] <jcoxon> on balloon_sked
[16:19] <jcoxon> can forward if you want
[16:19] <edmoore> do
[16:19] <edmoore> am obviously not on that list
[16:19] <edmoore> ta
[16:20] <jcoxon> its a good list to be on
[16:20] <jcoxon> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Balloon_Sked/
[16:20] <jcoxon> email sent
[16:23] <edmoore> ah well, gluck to them
[16:24] <jcoxon> its interesting for us as well
[16:24] <jcoxon> i'm now all for Canada launches - means we can avoid the FAA
[16:24] <jcoxon> just need to kick the Canadians to give us permission
[16:24] <jcoxon> edmoore: got red alert working last night on my linux laptop
[16:25] <jcoxon> played multiplayer over a null serial cable
[16:25] <jcoxon> was old school
[16:25] <edmoore> :)
[16:25] <edmoore> who won?
[16:26] <jcoxon> oh we worked together against 2 AIs
[16:26] <jcoxon> so we did :-D
[16:27] <edmoore> :)
[16:27] <edmoore> I want to play!!
[16:27] <jcoxon> couldn't get lan stuff working
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[16:29] <jcoxon> really want to get my hands on total annihilation
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[18:29] <edmoore> evenin
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[18:31] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:32] Action: Laurenceb has sparkfun order
[18:32] <Laurenceb> record time - as fast as rs
[18:33] <stilldavid> I decided I'm not so much a fan of online shops that proudly display your order history on your login page (like SFE)
[18:33] <stilldavid> at lest they don't put a "grand total" at the bottom :P
[18:34] <Laurenceb> homebase do that in the store for me
[18:34] <Laurenceb> I'm at about £2k atm
[18:34] <stilldavid> yikes! but it's all worth it ...
[18:36] <natrium42> hi
[18:37] <edmoore> hi
[18:37] <edmoore> hoooo
[18:40] <Laurenceb> annoying as the place is a rip off
[18:40] <natrium42> hello ed
[18:40] <Laurenceb> but its so easy.... grr
[18:40] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[18:40] <natrium42> jcoxon, did olimex pcbs arrive yet?
[18:40] <Laurenceb> what to do with my large solar panel...?
[18:40] <Laurenceb> I was thinking rig it up to a UM12 and make some sort of remote mailbox
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> large?
[18:41] <Laurenceb> ~12''
[18:41] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a network of concealed base-stations over the country, with GSM->UM12s.
[18:42] <Laurenceb> I also have an olimex arm jtag
[18:45] <jcoxon> natrium42, i didn't order them in the end
[18:45] <jcoxon> lack of funds
[18:46] <edmoore> you need a slush fund
[18:46] <edmoore> for secret black projects
[18:46] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:46] Action: Laurenceb gets out black sray paint
[18:47] <natrium42> jcoxon, ah, ok
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[18:48] <natrium42> do i have your mailing address?
[18:48] <natrium42> i will mail you some atlantic halo flight computer PCBs
[18:48] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
[18:49] <natrium42> i got too many
[18:49] <jcoxon> natrium42, hehe
[18:49] <jcoxon> how many do you have?
[18:49] <natrium42> already destroyed one since i needed a part of the PCB
[18:49] <natrium42> maybe 20 or so
[18:49] <jcoxon> haha okay thats quite a few
[18:49] <natrium42> indeed
[18:49] <natrium42> never going to use them
[18:49] <jcoxon> you should have my address but i can email you again if you can't find it
[18:50] <EI5GTB> so get this, the Iaa tell me to get permission from the met office, the met office tell me its unregulated and then the IAA say that im going to need to give a safety statment and shit .... feckin baloons!
[18:50] <jcoxon> EI5GTB, urgh
[18:50] <edmoore> ignore them
[18:50] <edmoore> let it go out to see
[18:50] <natrium42> jcoxon, yah, not sure if i can find it, better if you email
[18:51] <EI5GTB> Obviously part of the application for permission process would be to determine the effect if any that the said balloon would on have on other air traffic and also on the Air Navigation Services at the place of intended launch, along the predicted flight path and at the predicted place of final landing. This would have to include those elements of the Trans Atlantic Route Structure that cross Irish controlled airspace and any permission would ther
[18:51] <EI5GTB> efore have to be discussed in full with in Air Navigation Services.
[18:51] <EI5GTB>
[18:51] <EI5GTB> Regardless of how other Aviation Authorities deal with these balloons, the Irish Aviation Authority requires the proposer, you in this case, to provide a safety case for your proposal. On paper your proposal suggests that the balloon will rise to 78800 feet (24km) before bursting, will have equipment on board and could potentially collide with a transatlantic commercial aircraft. Without a safety case being presented, there is no way that the IAA
[18:51] <EI5GTB> will give a permission for this proposal.
[18:51] <EI5GTB>
[18:51] <EI5GTB> I trust this clarifies matters.
[18:51] <EI5GTB> thats the e-mail i got
[18:52] <EI5GTB> i dont think they realise how small the payload is... and how big a 747 is..
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> compare it to a duck
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> along with sectional densities, ...
[18:53] <EI5GTB> i think that theyre under the impression im launching a cow and 2 elephants into space
[18:53] <jcoxon> EI5GTB, you might as well launch over here
[18:53] <edmoore> compare it to a swallow
[18:53] <edmoore> but do not specify african or european
[18:53] <jcoxon> an african swallow?
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> An african or european swallow?
[18:53] <jcoxon> damn beat me to it
[18:53] <edmoore> you're all too slow
[18:54] <edmoore> if they ask which, you can shoot them
[18:54] <EI5GTB> but the thing is. i was going to get permission from comreg to fly amateur radio... if the IAA gave the thumbs up
[18:54] <natrium42> EI5GTB, can't you tell them "well, the englishmen over there are launching them over there"
[18:54] <edmoore> in the face
[18:54] <EI5GTB> i did
[18:54] <EI5GTB> "Regardless of how other Aviation Authorities deal with these balloons, the Irish Aviation Authority requires the proposer, you in this case, to provide a safety case for your proposal."
[18:54] <EI5GTB> wtf is a safety case?
[18:54] <EI5GTB> grr
[18:54] <edmoore> it's a case
[18:54] <edmoore> like a suitcase
[18:54] <edmoore> but you put safety in it
[18:54] <edmoore> instead of clothes
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> probabilities of intersecting with other traffic
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> what happens if you do
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> what you are doing to avoid it
[18:55] <edmoore> where are you launching from EI5GTB
[18:55] <EI5GTB> ah, k
[18:55] <edmoore> ?
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> incidents in the past where balloon payloads have destroyed cities.
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> ...
[18:56] <EI5GTB> yea... should i meantion the radioactive material of just below critical mass i intend to carry?
[18:56] <natrium42> EI5GTB, tell them that then the englishmen get all the fame
[18:56] <natrium42> EI5GTB, and the irish are losing influence
[18:56] <natrium42> :)
[18:56] <EI5GTB> lol, well, im gonna keep playing their game for a while,. im gonna draft up a safety case then
[18:56] <edmoore> EI5GTB: which bit of ireland are you in
[18:57] <EI5GTB> donegal town
[18:57] <edmoore> ...tending to launch from?
[18:57] <EI5GTB> would probably launch from galway or mayo
[18:57] <EI5GTB> i.e well west..
[18:57] <EI5GTB> or south if the jet stream is headed nortjh
[18:57] <edmoore> ]well it's gonna land in either the north of northern ireland
[18:57] <EI5GTB> in that case somewhere in the middle of the island..
[18:57] <edmoore> which is pretty empty
[18:57] <edmoore> or the sea
[18:57] <edmoore> which is pretty empty
[18:58] <edmoore> or the peak district, which is pretty empty
[18:58] <edmoore> lake district, even
[18:58] <Laurenceb> geek district
[18:59] <EI5GTB> yup.. so, if i lauched from say.... tullamore
[18:59] <EI5GTB> is there a good chance it will stay in irish territory and land on land?
[18:59] <edmoore> geography knowlesge fail
[18:59] <edmoore> and spelling fail
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> I wonder iif the IAA claims extraterritorial jurisdiction over nationals activities
[19:00] <natrium42> EI5GTB, just launch from a boat
[19:00] <natrium42> in international waters
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> so if EI5GTB launched from england, he'd still need permission
[19:00] Action: SpeedEvil considered that for his rocket
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> (which iss nowhere near construction, nevermind launch)
[19:01] <EI5GTB> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Tullamore,+County+Offaly,+Republic+of+Ireland&sll=51.813127,-5.376349&sspn=5.816115,19.775391&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=FTTlLAMdbKSN_w&split=0&ll=53.871963,-5.526123&spn=2.617088,9.887695&z=7&iwloc=A
[19:01] <EI5GTB> tullamiore
[19:01] <EI5GTB> the baloon would head north likw 100km or so, right?
[19:03] <edmoore> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8026592.stm
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[19:04] <Jon_APEX> evening all
[19:04] <natrium42> hi Jon_APEX
[19:04] <jcoxon> hey Jon_APEX
[19:05] <EI5GTB> dinner, bbiiab
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> EI5GTB: also - you might consider what the met office release - the payloads - and compare your payload to therirs - and hte relative numbers of each
[19:05] <edmoore> greets Jon_APEX
[19:05] Action: SpeedEvil is afk - taking over the world.
[19:06] <jcoxon> edmoore, 25
[19:06] <edmoore> ?
[19:06] <jcoxon> 25 people :-p
[19:06] <edmoore> oh yes!
[19:07] <edmoore> 5 more
[19:07] <edmoore> we need to go fishing
[19:07] <edmoore> next big exhibition launch
[19:07] <jcoxon> exhibition launch - DL Client working + sstv :-p
[19:08] <jcoxon> oh and live launch streaming
[19:08] <edmoore> sstv is the trick
[19:08] <jcoxon> i'd be quite happy to fly sstv is someone provided the tracking
[19:08] <edmoore> we need to build a big-assed dish from chicken wire
[19:09] <jcoxon> as i could get peg VI to just consistantly downlink pictures
[19:09] <edmoore> i quite like the idea of an instrument on a spacecraft mentality
[19:10] <jcoxon> i'm not familiar with that one
[19:10] <edmoore> we're going to build a payload with is basically just a gloried palette
[19:10] <edmoore> and you can build contained instruments to go on it
[19:10] <jcoxon> like the original original nova designs :-)
[19:10] <edmoore> like an integrated sstv + camera unit
[19:10] <edmoore> what goes around
[19:10] <edmoore> ...
[19:11] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:11] <edmoore> space palette
[19:11] <edmoore> has a nice ring to it
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[19:13] <edmoore> Pallet, sorry
[19:13] <edmoore> 26!
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[19:22] <EI5GTB> SpeedEvil, yea, i have an offer to go down and meet with the baloon people in valentia... so it could be good to take up on that and take a look at their payloads
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[19:57] <mc_> are you at 30 ppl?
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[20:38] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
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[20:42] <rjharrison> humph
[20:43] <rjharrison> just toasted a lassen iQ
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[20:44] <SpeedEvil> :/
[20:51] <rjharrison> Hi edmoore:
[20:51] <rjharrison> Thanks SpeedEvil
[20:51] <edmoore> hi
[20:51] <rjharrison> edmoore just tosteed my second iQ
[20:51] <rjharrison> toasted
[20:51] <edmoore> whops how?
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[20:52] <rjharrison> filament of wire between power pin and circuit
[20:52] <edmoore> standard
[20:52] <rjharrison> Placed on wooden desk powered up and bad smell from iQ
[20:53] <rjharrison> Found a monofilament of wire on desk
[20:53] <rjharrison> Ahhh
[20:53] Action: EI5GTB hands rjharrison A CAN OF FACTORY SMOKE
[20:53] <EI5GTB> wow, caps..
[20:53] <rjharrison> Cheers
[20:54] <EI5GTB> np
[20:54] <rjharrison> Now attaching bit of plastic to back of pcb
[20:57] <edmoore> it's a bit pita
[20:57] <edmoore> big*
[20:58] <rjharrison> Well the iQ isn't that big but phor what a smell
[20:58] <Laurenceb> fried it by shorting Vcc to GND?
[20:59] <edmoore> i have 60mB bandwidth left today before a fine. Too much background youtube music
[20:59] <edmoore> better hope irc doesn't consume 60 MB in the next 3 hours
[20:59] <rjharrison> hehe
[20:59] <edmoore> everyone, minimise your typing rate :p
[20:59] <rjharrison> Laurenceb: Shorted on monofilament of wire on desk
[20:59] <rjharrison> Just got a bad smell
[21:00] <Laurenceb> shorted what to what?
[21:00] <rjharrison> No idea but everything seems ok now I replaced the iQ
[21:01] <rjharrison> Ithink the 6v in pin
[21:01] <rjharrison> On the back
[21:03] <Laurenceb> 6v an lassen iq do not mix
[21:04] <rjharrison> Yep I can confirm that
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[21:11] <rjharrison> Laurenceb: Have also learnt that it is a good idea to have the off switch near the powere source
[21:11] <rjharrison> not on the other side of the board
[21:14] Action: Laurenceb has a ublox with sarantel
[21:15] <rjharrison> Ohh nice
[21:15] <rjharrison> I want a ublox
[21:15] <Laurenceb> annoyingly no nice black cover on the antenna
[21:16] <rjharrison> Ahh bit trick for outside use
[21:16] <Laurenceb> just some plastic tube open at one end
[21:16] <rjharrison> tricky
[21:16] <Laurenceb> the photo on sparkfun shows a nice cover
[21:17] <rjharrison> Typical
[21:17] <Laurenceb> maybe I should moan about it
[21:19] <Laurenceb> or maybe sarantel can help me - theya re in the uk
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[21:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.set.sm/immagini/f12f4cba53.jpg
[21:38] <Laurenceb> ^ like that
[21:38] <Laurenceb> or not... in my case
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[22:29] <EI5GTB> Data uploaded 510.02 GB [547633225813 bytes]
[22:29] <EI5GTB> Data downloaded 515.95 GB [554001644905 bytes]
[22:29] <EI5GTB> apparently my isp isn't to fond of me
[22:30] <EI5GTB> right, bed
[22:56] <Laurenceb> http://www.wolframsbeta.com/
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[23:13] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[23:14] <natrium42> yo
[23:16] <jcoxon> do i need to do anything regarding paypal shipping/canada post
[23:16] <jcoxon> not sure i understand the email
[23:16] <natrium42> nope, it should have been just a shipping notice
[23:16] <natrium42> bbl
[23:17] <Laurenceb> looks like pbh have issues with the faa
[23:17] <Laurenceb> whats out scituation?
[23:17] <jcoxon> atlantic halo Laurenceb ?
[23:18] <jcoxon> ummm well we would avoid chatting with FAA
[23:18] <Laurenceb> stay in canada?
[23:18] <jcoxon> just the Canadian side - we are still looking for permission
[23:18] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:33] <Laurenceb> I'm an dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac. I lie awake at night wondering if there's a dog.
[23:46] Nick change: KingJ -> kingj
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[23:53] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[23:54] <edmoore> hi
[23:54] <edmoore> off to bedm sorry
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[00:00] --- Wed May 6 2009