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[12:04] <rjharrison> Morning all
[12:04] <rjharrison> Components throught from Farnell
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[12:24] <Dan-K2VOL> morning
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[12:32] <edmoore> burp
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[13:17] <rjharrison> Hi Dan-K2VOL I see you guys are getting ready to launch agin
[13:18] <rjharrison> are you guys going to be using our listener again to track the payload
[13:18] <rjharrison> I have updated the server to allow manual entry of data points.
[13:19] <Dan-K2VOL> well, we're going to launch a small flight at the GPSL conference in July, nothing before then
[13:19] <Dan-K2VOL> that I know of anyway!
[13:19] <Dan-K2VOL> might be thinking of another group
[13:19] <rjharrison> Oh somehow I had tied you up with the PBH team
[13:20] <Dan-K2VOL> no, all SNOX here
[13:20] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[13:20] <rjharrison> But know I remember your are the SNOX
[13:20] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[13:20] <rjharrison> Sorry
[13:20] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm helping the Canadian teams a little bit
[13:21] <rjharrison> natrium42 et al
[13:21] <rjharrison> cool
[13:22] <Dan-K2VOL> I just released the full parsed SNOX IV telemetry last night. I'm not sure I like the service I posted it on, but we'll see
[13:22] <Dan-K2VOL> you can find it at http://spiritofknoxville.com/
[13:22] <Dan-K2VOL> toward the bottom under View Published Data
[13:23] <rjharrison> So I see
[13:23] <rjharrison> Well done for publishing
[13:24] <Dan-K2VOL> good to be able to post manual entries on the tracker
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[13:25] <edmoore> afternoon everyone
[13:25] <rjharrison> Yep as human interpretation is better than the computer in HF flights with big time delays between TX
[13:25] <edmoore> hi Dan-K2VOL - how's it going? I pointed some guys who launched recently in the direction of your page on the flight computer
[13:25] <rjharrison> Hi ed
[13:26] <Dan-K2VOL> hi edmoore
[13:26] <edmoore> It was particularly useful for them to see that you definitely don't need a linux computer to get a balloon 90% of the way across the atlantic.
[13:26] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, nor even more than the BASIC language :-P
[13:27] <rjharrison> Nice PIC work that
[13:27] <Dan-K2VOL> it was a mistake to take the basic that far into the project, really,
[13:27] <edmoore> It worked though.
[13:28] <edmoore> can't argue with the results
[13:28] <rjharrison> I have to do some work for a bit
[13:28] <rjharrison> Chat laters
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[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> we should have transitioned to C early in the flight program, as I spent most of the software programming time on things like trying to do math without fixed points, and string handling char by char
[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> but yes, it worked
[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> it's fast to program most ideas
[13:29] <Dan-K2VOL> edmoore, I've got to go too in a bit, but you might check out the doc site today, I posted the raw SNOX IV telemetry.
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[13:30] <Dan-K2VOL> edmoore, I've got to go too in a bit, but you might check out the doc site today, I posted the raw SNOX IV telemetry.
[13:30] <edmoore> am looking!
[13:30] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, have a good afternoon
[13:31] <edmoore> you too
[13:31] <edmoore> or morning
[13:31] <edmoore> or whatever it is
[13:31] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
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[16:25] <Jon___> Afternoon
[16:26] <shellevil> oon
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[16:36] <Matt__> hey all
[16:37] <Jon___> hi
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[16:43] <Jcoxon> edmoore, ping
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[17:16] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
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[17:24] <edmoore> jcoxon: hi and ping back
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[17:41] <rjharrison> Ping jcoxon
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[17:43] <edmoore> rjharrison: what news?
[17:46] <rjharrison> Humm not me
[17:46] <rjharrison> But there is a payload in the dyke aparently
[17:46] <edmoore> what are the odds
[17:46] <edmoore> wonder what it could be
[17:46] <rjharrison> Chute the works
[17:46] <rjharrison> Exatly
[17:46] <edmoore> oh really??
[17:47] <edmoore> can they take a photo?
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[17:47] <edmoore> am trying to think who's lost anything in that direction
[17:48] <rjharrison> Bluechute with red cross on it
[17:48] <rjharrison> I'm going to drop by on Thusday if they don't get it out before then
[17:48] <rjharrison> I wonder what chute they used on APEX
[17:49] <edmoore> rjharrison jcoxon check email
[17:49] <edmoore> jcoxon: have you lose any in norfolk?
[17:49] <edmoore> or has laurenceb?
[17:49] <jcoxon> yeah damn cool
[17:50] <jcoxon> i haven't lost much
[17:50] <jcoxon> apart from to the sea
[17:50] <rjharrison> -----> 99
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[18:02] <jcoxon> hey all
[18:02] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3483813272/
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[18:03] <Jon___> Hi
[18:03] <jcoxon> my Hysplit forecast for teh PBH-10 flight
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[18:04] <edmoore> bbl
[18:04] <jcoxon> hey Jon___
[18:04] <Jon___> Hello :)
[18:04] <Matt__> hey jon
[18:05] <jcoxon> Jon___, heard about the up coming trans-atlantic attempt?
[18:05] <jcoxon> launching on early thurs morn from the US?
[18:05] <Jon___> I have, don't know anything about it though
[18:05] <Jon___> Wow
[18:05] <Jon___> Good luck!
[18:05] <rjharrison> Jon___ what was your chute like
[18:05] <jcoxon> oh its not us
[18:05] <Matt__> red
[18:05] <Jon___> Bright orange/red
[18:06] <rjharrison> some one has found a blue and orange chute in some water with a payload
[18:06] <Jon___> Interesting, whereabouts?
[18:07] <rjharrison> I put an bit in the local Lynn News paper about loosing a balloon 2 weeks ago
[18:07] <Jon___> Our chute had no blue on it, unless its discolouration etc
[18:07] <rjharrison> It went out yesterday
[18:07] <rjharrison> I'm going to investigate what it is on the way to cambridge this thursday
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[18:08] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker/index.php?mission_id=100
[18:08] <Jon___> OK
[18:09] <rjharrison> This shows the track of the payload I lost and the 2 is the report of where this chute has been discoverd in the drink
[18:09] <rjharrison> water
[18:09] <Jon___> Looks likely
[18:09] <rjharrison> No shit
[18:09] <rjharrison> That's what I thought untill the orange cross and blue chute bit
[18:10] <Jon___> Fingers crossed
[18:11] <rjharrison> I'll let you know if I hear anything like your payload
[18:12] <Jon___> Thank you :)
[18:12] <rjharrison> BTW I havn't seen any pics of launch was there any
[18:12] <Jon___> Just uploading them at the moment
[18:12] <Jon___> Give me a few minutes
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[18:21] <Jon___> Nearly done
[18:23] <Jon___> http://www.hexoc.com/balloon/gallery/index.php?cat=5
[18:23] <Jon___> there you go
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[18:35] <Jon___> Still updating the photo gallery for APEX
[18:35] Nick change: Jon___ -> Jon_APEX
[18:38] <rjharrison> Thanks Jon_APEX
[18:39] <jcoxon> Jon_APEX, - you should add your project to the list on the ukhas wiki
[18:40] <Jon_APEX> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/list_of_launches
[18:40] <Jon_APEX> already been done
[18:40] <Jon_APEX> Not by me though, not sure who did it.
[18:40] <jcoxon> oh i did that
[18:40] <jcoxon> but i mean the main page
[18:40] <Jon_APEX> Ah, OK
[18:41] <Jon_APEX> I'll write a page for it in a bit :)
[18:41] <Jon_APEX> As you might know, v2 is already in the making
[18:41] <jcoxon> oh excellent
[18:41] <jcoxon> similar to v1?
[18:42] <Jon_APEX> Completely redesigned electronics
[18:42] <jcoxon> whats it going to be based on?
[18:42] <jcoxon> PIC? AVR? ARM?
[18:42] <Jon_APEX> 50 baud RTTY on 434 Mhz
[18:42] <Jon_APEX> PIC
[18:42] <jcoxon> great
[18:42] <jcoxon> sounds good
[18:43] <Jon_APEX> In the process of trying to get the radiometrix modules from them for free
[18:43] <Jon_APEX> Educational purposes and all
[18:43] <jcoxon> they have been giving quite a few out recently
[18:43] <jcoxon> go for 434.075 rather then 434.650
[18:43] <jcoxon> as some repeater inputs are on .650
[18:43] <Jon_APEX> OK
[18:44] <Jon_APEX> Is the distributed listener on .075 as well?
[18:44] <jcoxon> the DL is on any freq we want it to be really
[18:44] <jcoxon> its not as automated as APRS - needs a bit of setting up
[18:44] <jcoxon> Jon_APEX, where abouts are you based?
[18:44] Action: jcoxon thinks a potential station :-D
[18:44] <Jon_APEX> Surrey
[18:45] <Jon_APEX> I have a machine running 24/7 at home, so setting up a station here is certainly possible.
[18:45] <Jon_APEX> The only thing stopping me at the moment is funding.
[18:45] <jcoxon> well its more that we run the stations only on flights
[18:45] <Jon_APEX> Fair enough
[18:45] <jcoxon> basically you run fldigi and a python client
[18:45] <Jon_APEX> I'm certainly up for it!
[18:46] <jcoxon> and it parses the received data and sends it to the server
[18:46] <Jon_APEX> :)
[18:46] <Jon_APEX> what hardware is required? Antenna + reciever?
[18:46] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:46] <jcoxon> something that can do ssb on 70cm
[18:46] <jcoxon> the system does require some tuning during the flight
[18:46] <Jon_APEX> OK
[18:47] <Jon_APEX> Fair enough
[18:47] <rjharrison> Jon_APEX An FT817ND would be a great radio if you can afford it
[18:47] <Jon_APEX> Something I wanted to ask:
[18:48] <Jon_APEX> I shall have a look into it :)
[18:48] <rjharrison> But you may want to wait a bit befor you buy one
[18:48] <Jon_APEX> Yes that's probably a good idea
[18:48] <Jon_APEX> We want a radio uplink to the balloon. Would it be better to have a transciever at each end, so down/up are on the same frequency?
[18:48] <rjharrison> we all want that
[18:48] <jcoxon> its a tough one really
[18:49] <jcoxon> again the rule are against you
[18:49] <Jon_APEX> Or is it better to have a seperate tx/rx at each end, on diff fxs?
[18:49] <rjharrison> We're working on it
[18:49] <jcoxon> well our intepretation is that the rules are against you
[18:49] <Jon_APEX> OK
[18:49] <rjharrison> separate
[18:49] <jcoxon> we aren't sure if amateur radio freqs are allowed
[18:49] <rjharrison> 169?
[18:49] <jcoxon> so instead you can use unlicenced bands
[18:50] <jcoxon> (but more power as teh uplink is on hte ground rather then airbourne)
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[18:50] <Jon_APEX> Yep
[18:50] <jcoxon> e.g. 169mhz
[18:50] <jcoxon> at 500mW
[18:50] <Jon_APEX> How about 434 down and 459 up?
[18:50] <Jon_APEX> Didn't know about the 169 band...
[18:50] <jcoxon> i'm not sure - but probably
[18:50] <rjharrison> if 459 is unlicenced then yep
[18:50] <rjharrison> Right off home
[18:51] <rjharrison> exit
[18:51] <Jon_APEX> Those radiometrix modules are available in 458/459 versions
[18:51] <rjharrison> hehe
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[18:51] <Jon_APEX> Bye!
[18:53] <Jon_APEX> http://www.hexoc.com/balloon/gallery/displayimage.php?album=22&pos=0
[18:53] <jcoxon> interesting flight path
[18:54] <Jon_APEX> the large jump East you mean?
[18:54] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:54] <Jon_APEX> Weird isn't it
[18:54] <jcoxon> this may sound weird but could it be a decimal place error?
[18:55] <Jon_APEX> We have looked into this
[18:55] <jcoxon> as its been known to happen before
[18:55] <Jon_APEX> yeh
[18:55] <Jon_APEX> Can't see any way it could have happened
[18:55] <Jon_APEX> I've been looking through the flight scripts as well
[18:55] <Jon_APEX> It's possible, but doesn't seem likely
[18:56] <Jon_APEX> Also, if the balloon was near us, we would have recieved more beacons during its descent
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[19:04] <Matt__> as for uplinks, whats wrong with using say 433.9, and providing we're liscensed amatures we can put 10W on that freq on the ground?
[19:06] Nick change: Matt__ -> Matt_APEX
[19:10] <jcoxon> Matt_APEX, indeed its an interesting idea
[19:10] <jcoxon> however in your amateur licence you aren't allowed to broadcast
[19:10] <jcoxon> and you may only transmit to someone
[19:10] <jcoxon> and the payload isn't someone
[19:10] <Matt_APEX> to a balloon?
[19:10] <Matt_APEX> ok
[19:10] <jcoxon> no you must transmit to a callsign
[19:11] <jcoxon> we've argued a lot over it
[19:11] <Matt_APEX> it can be given a callsign
[19:11] <Matt_APEX> and anyway, for one packet to tell it to cutdown?
[19:11] <jcoxon> oh yes, no one will know :-p
[19:12] <jcoxon> you need to check out section 11(2) of your licence
[19:12] <Matt_APEX> also, if you look at aprs traffic, most of the packets sent are not sent to anyone specific
[19:12] <Matt_APEX> yea ill have a look
[19:12] <jcoxon> aprs is different i think
[19:12] <jcoxon> as its an accepted system
[19:12] <jcoxon> its really debatable
[19:13] <jcoxon> basically the general plan is that you could do it with licence exempt modules
[19:13] <jcoxon> its more of a challenge - but it would be a lot more fun
[19:14] <Matt_APEX> alothugh the only real thing you would tell it to do is cutdown, which is a last resort anyway
[19:14] <jcoxon> repeater fun
[19:15] <natrium42> <jcoxon> and you may only transmit to someone <--- what's stopping you to have a ground station listening in on the comms? ;)
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[19:18] <edmoore> back
[19:18] <edmoore> I quite strongly disagree about rules being against you in terms of uplinks
[19:19] <edmoore> I discussed this at some length with the RSGB Manager who was at the ISS uplink
[19:19] <edmoore> Jon_APEX: where is Surrey are you based?
[19:20] <edmoore> where in*
[19:20] <natrium42> and where the rules are not clear, you can always argue it your way if somebody asks you about it
[19:22] <Matt_APEX> someone wont question one packet that they dont know where the intended destinatiion is
[19:23] <Matt_APEX> and were based in sutton
[19:23] <Jon_APEX> specifically, I am in Ashtead
[19:24] <Matt_APEX> collectively in sutton i supose u could say?
[19:25] <edmoore> ah ok
[19:25] <edmoore> why were you launching up north?
[19:25] <edmoore> I went to school just near Guildford
[19:25] <Jon_APEX> Purely to keep it away from the sea
[19:26] <edmoore> where did you launch from?
[19:26] <Jon_APEX> Bromyard
[19:26] <Jon_APEX> just west of Worcester
[19:26] <edmoore> Jon_APEX: there's a shop called ML&S in weybridge
[19:26] <edmoore> go there at your peril
[19:26] <edmoore> you will spend money
[19:26] <Jon_APEX> Haha
[19:27] <edmoore> lots of good radio stuff
[19:27] <Jon_APEX> Looking at the website now
[19:27] <edmoore> I got some stuff from there recently
[19:27] <Jon_APEX> I'm pretty sure I've talked to them on the phone about 70cms antenna tuners
[19:28] <edmoore> they do try and get money off you
[19:28] <edmoore> but they are good
[19:28] <edmoore> what radio do you have?
[19:28] <Jon_APEX> I'm not a licensed amateur so I don't have one. We bought radios specifically for APEX
[19:29] <Jon_APEX> all testing was done with a 2m amateur handheld
[19:29] <Jon_APEX> I built a slim jim for testing on the APRS network
[19:29] <edmoore> uhuh
[19:29] <edmoore> where is school - near Ashtead?
[19:29] <Jon_APEX> the school is in Sutton
[19:46] <AlexBreton> hmm
[19:46] <AlexBreton> I just dug up some bones in the garden
[19:46] <Jon_APEX> Interesting.
[19:46] <AlexBreton> one is clearly a leg bone
[19:46] <AlexBreton> the rest are just random fragments
[19:46] <Jon_APEX> Concerning?
[19:46] <AlexBreton> probably a dog/cat or maybe a large rabbit
[19:46] <jcoxon> AlexBreton, take a picture
[19:46] <jcoxon> i'll have a look for you
[19:47] <AlexBreton> the femur is 20cm long
[19:47] <AlexBreton> jcoxon, you an archaeologist/vet? ;-)
[19:47] <edmoore> medic!
[19:48] <jcoxon> i'm a medic and my dissertation was on palopathology
[19:48] <jcoxon> examining skeletons
[19:48] <AlexBreton> sweet
[19:48] <AlexBreton> will get some pics then
[19:48] <jcoxon> paleopathology*
[19:48] <AlexBreton> one is interesting...long and flat
[19:48] <AlexBreton> 25cm long
[19:48] <AlexBreton> slightly curved
[19:50] <shellevil> Velociraptor.
[19:50] <AlexBreton> not that old...only buried about a foot deep :P
[19:51] <AlexBreton> heh would be nice if it was ;-)
[19:51] <jcoxon> picture!
[19:53] Action: shellevil has some skeletons in hte garden.
[19:53] <shellevil> Mostly goats.
[19:55] <AlexBreton> got pics ;-)
[19:55] <AlexBreton> importing 'em now
[19:57] <DanielRichman> Hmm. Why is the breadboard (lassen & arduino) giving me electric shocks?
[19:57] <edmoore> because it's crap
[19:58] <edmoore> that's probably not the right answer
[19:58] <edmoore> but it's basically jsut an array of parallel capacitors
[19:58] <shellevil> DanielRichman: you are not grounded at the same potential as it.
[19:58] <shellevil> DanielRichman: drive a 6" nail through your left foot, and connect to 0V
[19:58] <DanielRichman> shellevil, :)
[19:59] <DanielRichman> shellevil, that's what I thought, but pretty freaky the first time it got me
[19:59] <DanielRichman> and it was proper shocks, not just grounding. I'd touch the lassen's case, which I believe is the gnd of the circuit, and it felt like constant dc through my finger
[19:59] <DanielRichman> starting to ache now
[19:59] <shellevil> DanielRichman: check for grounding problems - what sort of house are you in?
[19:59] <DanielRichman> shellevil, circuit is outside. i was standing on brick, circuit on plastic table
[20:00] <DanielRichman> circuit is powered by laptop, which is plugged in
[20:02] <shellevil> Ok
[20:02] <shellevil> laptops are - almost universally - not grounded.
[20:03] <shellevil> They have inside the PSU a couple of RFI caps which result in an impedence of a few tens of K to effectively half the mains vvoltage..
[20:03] <shellevil> or abouot 120VAC.
[20:03] <shellevil> Driving a short rod into the ground, and connecting the outside of a USB connector or something to ground will work
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[20:05] <DanielRichman> shellevil, I'm not that worried :)
[20:05] <DanielRichman> be right back
[20:05] <AlexBreton> jcoxon, you here?
[20:05] <jcoxon> yes
[20:05] <AlexBreton> http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x250/Alex1961/IMG_2978.jpg
[20:05] <AlexBreton> here you go ;-)
[20:05] <AlexBreton> http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x250/Alex1961/IMG_2979.jpg
[20:06] <AlexBreton> http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x250/Alex1961/IMG_2980.jpg
[20:06] <jcoxon> okay so you've identified 2979 as a femur
[20:06] <AlexBreton> yep
[20:07] <jcoxon> on the group there looks to be 2 ends of a humerus
[20:08] <jcoxon> looks like a bit of vertebrae next to them
[20:08] Action: shellevil is reminded of http://home.comcast.net/~dupres/sue/Archaeology.html
[20:08] <AlexBreton> BTW
[20:09] <AlexBreton> 2980 is odd
[20:09] <AlexBreton> http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x250/Alex1961/IMG_2981.jpg
[20:09] <AlexBreton> ^^looks like it has been sawn
[20:09] <AlexBreton> and this is the one I'm stumped on: http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x250/Alex1961/IMG_2982.jpg
[20:10] <jcoxon> could be a sternum
[20:11] <shellevil> sheep?
[20:11] <shellevil> basing on the tooth in 78
[20:12] <shellevil> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geocities.com/chunniemonster/herbivore.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geocities.com/chunniemonster/herbivore.html&usg=__Gr4sh_V-r8RAJacY5H64L8pS6lk=&h=300&w=400&sz=80&hl=en&start=8&sig2=BmaogNYLQxYCZILt35lQ3g&um=1&tbnid=CaX2qCIxUa2NkM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsheep%2Btooth%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=A1X3SbSHHoS7_AbGpuHZCQ
[20:12] <shellevil> or not
[20:13] <AlexBreton> the femur is a little small for a sheep
[20:13] <AlexBreton> unless someone had lamb for dinner ;-)
[20:13] <AlexBreton> would explain the sawn bone
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[20:14] <rjharrison> evening all
[20:14] <AlexBreton> hi
[20:14] <AlexBreton> discussing bones ;-)
[20:14] <rjharrison> Cool
[20:14] <AlexBreton> unearthed a whole load in my garden ;-)
[20:14] <sbasuita> rjharrison, you've been connected to the uk negative altitude society ;)
[20:14] <AlexBreton> yep
[20:14] <rjharrison> lol
[20:14] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, how much of the garden have you dug up?
[20:15] <rjharrison> are they human
[20:15] <sbasuita> they're dancers
[20:15] <AlexBreton> not much...the whole is 50cm wide and 40cm deep
[20:15] <edmoore> and the individual?
[20:15] <AlexBreton> there may be more bones, just couldn't be bothered after a bit
[20:15] <AlexBreton> http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x250/Alex1961/IMG_2980.jpg
[20:15] <edmoore> (pun joke warning)
[20:15] <AlexBreton> stumped on this one
[20:15] <AlexBreton> http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x250/Alex1961/IMG_2983.jpg
[20:16] <AlexBreton> humerus ends^^?
[20:16] <AlexBreton> I must add I wasn't very careful in excavation
[20:16] <DanielRichman> Woohooo! working & parsing (GPS & Arduino)
[20:17] <DanielRichman> I will leave it running & for a couple of minutes...
[20:17] <DanielRichman> it's logging to the hdd of my laptop, so will have some good examples
[20:17] <edmoore> sbasuita: / DanielRichman / AlexBreton any idea what you guys want to do for degrees?
[20:17] <edmoore> (may aswell start recruiting)
[20:17] <DanielRichman> edmoore, what do you mean?
[20:17] <DanielRichman> university degrees?
[20:18] <edmoore> yeah, assuming you want to do one
[20:18] <AlexBreton> uni? I'm going for medicine
[20:18] <DanielRichman> maths here.
[20:18] <sbasuita> hmmm
[20:18] <AlexBreton> maths...fun stuff :P
[20:18] <sbasuita> comp sci; biology; physics; economics
[20:18] <edmoore> AlexBreton: taking after jcoxon
[20:18] <sbasuita> *shrug*
[20:18] <DanielRichman> sbasuita wants to do compsci but has the sensible niggling doubt in his mind that maths would be a better option
[20:18] <edmoore> sbasuita: sod economics
[20:18] <AlexBreton> credit crunch...you'll be out of a job
[20:18] <DanielRichman> biology? pfff!
[20:18] <sbasuita> not really
[20:18] <edmoore> you don't do any interesting maths at all
[20:19] <DanielRichman> physics isn't too bad
[20:19] <sbasuita> its crap at school
[20:19] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, maths is easy street.
[20:19] <edmoore> no it isn't
[20:19] <edmoore> not here anyway
[20:19] <AlexBreton> medicine is cut up the dead guy street
[20:19] <edmoore> it's really difficult
[20:19] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what's the point of taking an 'easy' degree?
[20:19] <DanielRichman> edmoore, point taken, but the lead up to maths degree is easy street
[20:19] <edmoore> sbasuita: hedge funds need a good knowledge of statistics
[20:19] <jcoxon> AlexBreton, i delivered a baby today :-)
[20:19] <DanielRichman> ie. everything before uni
[20:20] <DanielRichman> brb, going to retrieve logs from outside
[20:20] <AlexBreton> jcoxon, nice
[20:20] <AlexBreton> which university did you study at?
[20:20] <sbasuita> anybody got something to say about compsci
[20:20] <edmoore> hedge fund managers will fall over backwards if you can do baysian inference and know what a kalman filter is
[20:20] <AlexBreton> looking to see which are the good ones
[20:20] <jcoxon> AlexBreton, i'm still training
[20:20] <edmoore> economists don't know that kind of sutff
[20:20] <jcoxon> i was at cambridge and now at kings london
[20:20] <AlexBreton> I assume you have done 3 years
[20:20] <edmoore> don't be tempted - it's the sort of stuff you can jsut pick up after doing a scince degree
[20:21] <AlexBreton> jcoxon, looking for oxford/cambridge if I can
[20:21] <edmoore> sbasuita: at cambridge (assuming you might consider it) compscis and natscis do a common first year
[20:21] <sbasuita> edmoore, yeh, i was looking at the courses
[20:21] <edmoore> so you get a lot of people doing 50% compsci and 50% natsci in their first year
[20:21] <AlexBreton> any idea on a specialisation, jcoxon?
[20:21] <sbasuita> maybe compsci and biology
[20:21] <sbasuita> or physics
[20:21] <edmoore> which i think is a very useful thing to do indeed
[20:21] <sbasuita> but physics is crap so far
[20:21] <edmoore> ignore what you do at school
[20:21] <shellevil> edmoore: yeah - because more innovative financial products are what we need to get us out of this mes s:)
[20:22] <shellevil> yeah
[20:22] <edmoore> realise it has nothing to do with what the discipline actually involves
[20:22] <sbasuita> it still leaves naggling doubts in my mind
[20:22] <edmoore> don't let it
[20:22] <edmoore> I promise you
[20:22] <sbasuita> edmoore, i'll take your word ;)
[20:22] <edmoore> you never actually get to do maths at a level
[20:22] <jcoxon> AlexBreton, just want to pass :-)
[20:22] <edmoore> it's all just crap arithmaticey stuff
[20:22] <AlexBreton> I was doing amateur physio to my grandad, jcoxon
[20:23] <shellevil> School physics is 'this is how you hold a chisel' - more advanced stuff is what you can do with a bandsaw.
[20:23] <AlexBreton> had a cerebral haemorrhage
[20:23] <AlexBreton> lost a significant share of memory
[20:23] <AlexBreton> and was in bed for a month--> couldn't walk at all
[20:23] <jcoxon> AlexBreton, i'm sorry to hear that
[20:23] <AlexBreton> managed to make some good progress while I was there
[20:23] <AlexBreton> should be out thursday
[20:24] <shellevil> The brain is a hugely flexible organ.
[20:24] <AlexBreton> meanwhile he has to continue treatment for MDS
[20:24] <AlexBreton> which is the main prob
[20:24] <rjharrison> hey i did comp sci
[20:24] <edmoore> oh yeah good point - sbasuita talk to rjharrison
[20:24] <sbasuita> rjharrison, how was it?
[20:25] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, Miller-Dieker syndrome?
[20:25] <AlexBreton> nooo
[20:25] <AlexBreton> myelodysplastic
[20:25] <rjharrison> Nice easy degree if you have done alevel comp sci
[20:25] <rjharrison> the first year they bring you up to a level
[20:25] <edmoore> chaps, time for me to go
[20:25] <edmoore> see you all later
[20:25] <AlexBreton> cya ;-)
[20:25] <rjharrison> then the second and third are a bit more fun
[20:25] <sbasuita> rjharrison, our school doesn't do any IT above year 9
[20:25] <sbasuita> it was crap anyway
[20:26] <AlexBreton> 'crap' is an understatement
[20:26] <rjharrison> Ok you'll be fine it's a good course at leeds uni and still is
[20:26] <AlexBreton> leeds...I know someone in linguistics there
[20:26] <AlexBreton> lecturer
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[20:26] <rjharrison> Nice bit of programming an then a bit of theory and you have an option to spread your wings in the second year in other subjects
[20:27] <sbasuita> mmm
[20:27] <sbasuita> want to do some sciences
[20:27] <sbasuita> physics or biology
[20:27] <rjharrison> I did a bit of gross anatomy with the first year medics
[20:27] <sbasuita> genetic algorithms are the win
[20:27] <rjharrison> and some histology
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[20:27] <rjharrison> Cutting people up was interesting
[20:27] <rjharrison> Bit freaky at first
[20:27] <AlexBreton> I agree
[20:28] <rjharrison> and the second years got the head for head and neck
[20:28] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, what kind of things do you learn in compsci?
[20:29] <rjharrison> Database theory, some maths (stats, boolean algebra, number theory, finite state machines)
[20:30] <rjharrison> Programming, AI (good fun)
[20:30] <rjharrison> Artificail Intelegence
[20:30] <rjharrison> not spelling :)
[20:30] <DanielRichman> hmm
[20:31] <DanielRichman> Did you know any programming etc. before you started your degree?
[20:31] <rjharrison> Some team work
[20:31] <rjharrison> I did but 95% had never programmed
[20:31] <DanielRichman> What's it like for the 5%?
[20:31] <rjharrison> Great
[20:32] <AlexBreton> or boring cause you know it all? :P
[20:32] <rjharrison> Well I did some of the more complex programming tasks
[20:32] <rjharrison> Using other languages
[20:32] <DanielRichman> yeah
[20:32] <AlexBreton> damn I have a 4th A level to choose
[20:32] <AlexBreton> tight between german and history
[20:33] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, history hands down man
[20:33] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, german!
[20:33] <AlexBreton> if greek is available I'll do that though
[20:33] <AlexBreton> maybe french as a 5th...interesting
[20:33] <AlexBreton> 5 A levels would be rather pro
[20:34] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, iirc you take 4 normally, 5 for top set maths
[20:34] <AlexBreton> french can be passed with no work :P
[20:34] <AlexBreton> as an extra
[20:34] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, that's right. Maths fast track essentially take four but get the fifth free (ie. no extra time spent)
[20:34] <sbasuita> good stuff
[20:35] <sbasuita> maths seems to be the only subject in reading school where we actually work at a higher level
[20:35] <AlexBreton> modern greek A level...this needs exploration
[20:35] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, let's just establish that you taking french or greek A levels is _cheating_
[20:35] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, especially since you're already fluent -.-
[20:35] <AlexBreton> no, it's using an unfair advantage
[20:35] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, == cheating
[20:35] <AlexBreton> well, fair-ish
[20:35] <sbasuita> AlexBreton, just take them on the side like you are with gcses
[20:36] <AlexBreton> loads of other foreigners in the school who don't know their languages
[20:36] <AlexBreton> so its OK ;-)
[20:36] <DanielRichman> Okey. Arduino throws out correct checksum and the message itself looks good. Success
[20:36] <AlexBreton> reminds me...french speaking tomorrow *steamroller*
[20:39] <DanielRichman> Example string (note that I've fiddled the coordinates, did check them first and it's bang ontop of my house on google maps) - this is what the Arduino is giving out: $$A1,00533,19:20:53,52.124567,-001.821285,00065,0000,05,00000000,*4F
[20:44] <Jon_APEX> Daniel and Alex, are you both involved in the same project?
[20:47] <DanielRichman> Jon_APEX, Myself, sbasuita and AlexBreton are all part of the same http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:alien project.
[20:47] <DanielRichman> (also http://alienproject.wordpress.com/)
[20:47] <Jon_APEX> Cool, I shall have a read of that now
[20:50] <Jon_APEX> Will be keeping a close eye on this one, looks good! Good work :)
[20:51] <DanielRichman> Jon_APEX, thanks :)
[20:51] <AlexBreton> Jon_APEX: if you need batteries, ask at Energizer
[20:51] <AlexBreton> I assume you have seen the motherload we got ;-)
[20:51] <Jon_APEX> I've heard :D
[20:52] <Jon_APEX> Power for our next project hasn't been decided just yet
[20:53] <Jon_APEX> the SOCl2s on APEX I were pretty good
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[20:53] <AlexBreton> we were recommended energizer lithiums
[20:53] <Jon_APEX> Yep CUSF seem to use them to great effect
[20:54] <Jon_APEX> But we can get a 3.6V 5.5Ah SOCl2 cell for a few quid more that weighs just 40g
[20:54] <Jon_APEX> Both are perfectly viable solutions, just another decision that needs to be made :)
[20:55] <AlexBreton> yep
[20:55] <AlexBreton> but since ours were for free...I'm not complaining
[20:55] <Jon_APEX> Haha - fair point
[20:55] <AlexBreton> I asked for 24
[20:55] <AlexBreton> and we got 24x4
[20:55] <AlexBreton> go figure...they don't do maths at energizer
[20:56] <Jon_APEX> :D
[20:57] <gordonjcp> AlexBreton: more like "grab a big handful of batteries and post them"
[20:57] <AlexBreton> yeah, scooped 'em off the conveyor at the factory
[21:02] <shellevil> factory?
[21:02] <shellevil> E?ngland
[21:04] <AlexBreton> joking ;-)
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[21:17] <rjharrison> energizer lithiums rock and have been very well tested at altitude
[21:17] <rjharrison> + cheap and available
[21:18] <AlexBreton> especially if you blag them :P
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[21:24] <Jon_APEX> Just done this, if anyone is interested
[21:24] <Jon_APEX> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:apex-i
[21:25] <jcoxon> great
[21:25] <sbasuita> Jon_APEX, cool
[21:26] <sbasuita> Jon_APEX, you blagged the whole school bus?
[21:26] <rjharrison> cool
[21:27] <rjharrison> Nice work
[21:27] <Jon_APEX> Yep we borrowed it for the weekend
[21:27] <Jon_APEX> And I drove the car - we wanted two tracking vehicles
[21:27] <sbasuita> Jon_APEX, what computer did you use?
[21:27] <Jon_APEX> The flight computer is an ARM9E board running Debian Linux
[21:28] <Jon_APEX> TS-7260 from Technologic Systems
[21:28] <Jon_APEX> its running a custom kernel for AX25 ops though
[21:29] <Jon_APEX> :)
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[21:30] <Jon_APEX> hello again :)
[21:30] <sbasuita> Jon_APEX, graphics + linux = nightmare
[21:31] <Jon_APEX> Correct
[21:31] <sbasuita> ouch
[21:31] <Jon_APEX> The camera was controlled centrally, but images were just stored onboard
[21:31] <sbasuita> linux flight computer = 150 dollars?
[21:31] <Jon_APEX> Little bit more, but around that
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[21:33] <Jon_APEX> It was a very good little machine, perfectly reliable
[21:34] <Jon_APEX> Perhaps overkill, but it gave us a lot of flexibility
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[21:37] <iNatrium> Hi
[21:38] <Jon_APEX> HI
[21:38] <DanielRichman> indeed, linux + graphics = nightmare. My Xorg is leaking memory, simrun's compiz is lagging so much that it's disorientating... oh, and then there's the drivers :X
[21:39] <DanielRichman> Jon_APEX, you use the 3.5mm PIC programming sockets/jacks?
[21:39] <Jon_APEX> Yes
[21:39] <DanielRichman> Absolute nightmare. Our school insists on PICs too.
[21:40] <Jon_APEX> I've found the PICs limiting in some respects, but good in others
[21:40] <Jon_APEX> for APEX-I, the PIC was simply a hardware controller
[21:40] <DanielRichman> Liking the rainbow ribbon cable :)
[21:40] <Jon_APEX> The flight computer was the central controller, just telling the PIC what to do
[21:40] <Jon_APEX> Haha ribbon cable is great :D
[21:40] <DanielRichman> Jon_APEX, yeah. Although, having tried both, I couldn't recommend AVRs more.
[21:41] <DanielRichman> then again, haven't tried the upper-range PIC
[21:41] <DanielRichman> *PICs
[21:41] <DanielRichman> Programming in C is just so much better.
[21:41] <DanielRichman> But then again, I guess that it's personal preference.
[21:41] <Jon_APEX> Swings and roundabouts I think, like most things
[21:41] <DanielRichman> Yeah
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[21:41] <Jon_APEX> AVRs are something I have yet to experiment with, simply because I've had no need for them up till now
[21:42] <Jon_APEX> I'm certain I will soon, however
[21:42] <DanielRichman> We intend to build the entire flight computer from a single AVR.
[21:43] <DanielRichman> I think we'll be able to. But sometimes trying to get it all in is hard
[21:43] <Jon_APEX> Good plan
[21:43] <Jon_APEX> Similar thing happening with APEX-II
[21:43] <DanielRichman> You have to constantly think about timing timing timing, because you have no kernel to multitask for you
[21:43] <Jon_APEX> Yep
[21:43] <DanielRichman> It's about 90% done, and our code is currently this big: 4166 64 265 4495 118f alien1.elf
[21:43] <Jon_APEX> :)
[21:43] <DanielRichman> whoops. hangon
[21:43] <DanielRichman> let me get the table headers.
[21:44] <Jon_APEX> OK
[21:44] <DanielRichman> text data bss dec hex filename
[21:44] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:44] <DanielRichman> arrgh
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[21:44] <DanielRichman> i really should look before pressing enter
[21:44] <DanielRichman> text data bss dec hex filename
[21:44] <DanielRichman> 4166 64 265 4495 118f alien1.elf
[21:44] <DanielRichman> there.
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[21:46] <Jon_APEX> Cool
[21:46] <Jon_APEX> As I said, I'll be keeping an eye on your project
[21:46] <Jon_APEX> Looking really good!
[21:47] <iNatrium> So whose payload was found?
[21:47] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you going to write up the radio stuff on the blog?
[21:47] <Jon_APEX> No idea... is this the blue/orange chute one?
[21:48] <iNatrium> Yah
[21:48] <Jon_APEX> Don't think we know yet
[21:48] <Jon_APEX> It's unlikely to be ours, unfortunately
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[21:50] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, why don't you :) - maybe later.
[21:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, well, you did all the electronics for the transmitter
[21:50] <Jon_APEX> Daniel, when are you launching?
[21:51] Jon_APEX_ (n=chatzill@93-97-184-163.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[21:51] <DanielRichman> Jon_APEX, half term, hopefully. I forget the dates
[21:51] <Jon_APEX_> Cool
[21:51] <DanielRichman> Jon_APEX, are you on Windows right now?
[21:51] <Jon_APEX_> yes
[21:51] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what's a good Windows IRC client?
[21:51] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, xchat
[21:51] <iNatrium> Xchat
[21:51] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, does that run on windows?
[21:51] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yes
[21:51] <Matt_APEX> or a firefox addon?
[21:51] <Jon_APEX_> Chatzilla if you use Firefox
[21:51] <DanielRichman> oh ok. I'm using xchat right now.
[21:52] <DanielRichman> trust me
[21:52] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, http://www.silverex.org/news/
[21:52] <DanielRichman> xchat > others
[21:52] <DanielRichman> http://www.xchat.org/
[21:52] <sbasuita> firefox + irc = major feature bloat
[21:55] <iNatrium> If you like text console, there is irrsi :p
[21:55] <sbasuita> iNatrium, irssi has one achilles heel: it has no way to notify your desktop that you have been highlighted
[21:55] <iNatrium> Bbl
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[21:57] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, have you noticed the new fonts in jaunty?
[21:58] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yes
[21:58] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, night anyway
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[22:32] <Laurenceb> hello
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[22:37] <gordonjcp> hi
[22:37] Action: Laurenceb is knackered
[22:38] <Laurenceb> I've been working non stop since 8.30am
[22:39] <Laurenceb> garden is almost finished - retaining walls finished and backfilled, patio finished and planting done
[22:42] <Laurenceb> estate agents coming to value on monday :P
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[22:51] <shellevil> :)
[22:52] <shellevil> you selling?
[23:27] <Laurenceb> when the market improves
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[23:50] <stilldavid> Is there a local shop type place to pick up some nichrome or suitable cut-down wire?
[23:51] <stilldavid> I don't know if I can justify getting a roll of it online... was wondering if a mechanic or hobby shop might have some for another use perhaps
[23:55] <shellevil> you're where?
[23:55] <shellevil> stainless wire works just fine
[23:55] <stilldavid> the states, out in california
[23:55] <shellevil> or ebay
[23:55] <stilldavid> I read somewhere that some guitar strings work
[23:57] <gordonjcp> stilldavid: wirewound resistors?
[00:00] --- Wed Apr 29 2009