highaltitude.log.20090427

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[00:04] <Laurenceb> wb
[00:04] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[00:05] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[00:06] <Laurenceb> any more exams?
[00:11] <edmoore> 6
[00:11] <edmoore> tues wed thurs
[00:11] <edmoore> then mon teus thurs
[00:11] <edmoore> then going to be at sstl at 1.30 on thurs
[00:13] <Laurenceb> god
[00:13] <Laurenceb> how many exams total?
[00:15] <Laurenceb> 8?
[00:17] <edmoore> 10
[00:17] <edmoore> and am now off to bed
[00:17] <Laurenceb> thats norrendous
[00:17] <Laurenceb> good luck, cya
[00:17] <edmoore> thanks
[00:17] <edmoore> agreed
[00:17] <edmoore> not much fun
[00:17] <Laurenceb> my max was 6
[00:18] <edmoore> i have fewer next year
[00:18] <edmoore> thankfully
[00:18] <Laurenceb> thats good
[00:18] <edmoore> but then I will have Hobble to contend with
[00:18] <Laurenceb> hehe
[00:18] <Laurenceb> as your project?
[00:18] <edmoore> yep
[00:18] <Laurenceb> awsome stuff
[00:18] <edmoore> right, catch you later
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[06:37] <jcoxon> PBH 10 is launching in less the 72 hours
[06:43] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
[06:46] <natrium42> yah
[06:46] <natrium42> got the memo :)
[06:47] <jcoxon> i've emailed back saying sure but please some more info + repeat the damn string twice
[06:47] <natrium42> srsly
[06:49] <jcoxon> can we use spacenear.us to track?
[06:52] <natrium42> sure
[06:54] <jcoxon> rob has made a php form to manually enter data onto the system
[06:54] <jcoxon> to help with the bad copying of telem string as its CW
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[06:55] <natrium42> neato, sounds useful
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[06:58] <jcoxon> back
[07:02] <natrium42> wb
[07:02] <natrium42> time to get some sleep :P
[07:02] <natrium42> g'nite
[07:02] <jcoxon> night
[07:13] <jcoxon> bbl
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[09:37] <edmoore> natrium42: aye-eeeeeeeeeeeee
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[11:22] <jcoxon> hey all
[11:32] <edmoore> jcoxon: yo
[11:32] <edmoore> so 0000 april 30th is on the tail end of a stream
[11:32] <edmoore> they've basically missed it
[11:36] <jcoxon> hey
[11:36] <jcoxon> have you run hysplit?
[11:36] Action: jcoxon has done his arabic exam
[11:41] <jcoxon> damn, can't remember my password to hysplit off the top of my head
[11:46] <jcoxon> will have to wait till i get home
[11:52] <jcoxon> edmoore: if they fly at their normal height they won't catch the JS at all
[11:52] <edmoore> yeah
[11:52] <edmoore> shame it's still during exams
[11:52] <edmoore> i guess the
[11:52] <edmoore> whoops
[11:52] <edmoore> ow many hours did they get last time?
[11:53] <jcoxon> ?
[11:53] <jcoxon> 49hrs
[11:53] <edmoore> ok
[11:53] <edmoore> so they need to average, what, 60+ mph
[11:53] <edmoore> that's not impossible
[11:54] <edmoore> but there really isn't much js activity at all
[11:54] <jcoxon> but if their ballast works they get a lot more time
[11:54] <jcoxon> considering last time they didn't drop any
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[11:54] <Laurenceb> hello
[11:54] <edmoore> ah right
[11:54] <edmoore> damn
[11:54] <edmoore> they might do it
[11:54] <jcoxon> they could well do it
[11:56] <Laurenceb> who?
[11:56] <jcoxon> PBH guys are launching again
[11:56] <jcoxon> on thurs morn
[11:56] <edmoore> going for trans
[11:58] <Laurenceb> sweet
[11:58] <Laurenceb> oh
[11:58] Action: Laurenceb hopes they fail
[11:58] <Laurenceb> ;P
[11:58] <jcoxon> Laurenceb: thats mean
[11:58] <edmoore> it is
[11:58] <Laurenceb> hehe
[11:58] <jcoxon> its always good fun a launch
[11:59] <Laurenceb> yes but we want to be first
[11:59] <jcoxon> esepcially trans as everyone can get involved with tracking
[11:59] <edmoore> they could be a bit more straight about who they are though. I'm hardly routing for them
[11:59] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:59] <Laurenceb> edmoore: your hobble, your making an IMU?
[12:00] <edmoore> yes
[12:00] <Laurenceb> then panning the telescope
[12:00] <Laurenceb> any idea on telescope size and method of moving it?
[12:00] <edmoore> yes
[12:01] <edmoore> but you're going to have to not ask me anything to do with it till exams are over
[12:01] <Laurenceb> :D ok
[12:01] <shellevil> overwhelmingly large telescope++
[12:01] <shellevil> That'd have been cool if built
[12:01] <shellevil> (100m apature scope)
[12:01] Action: Laurenceb directs edmoore to http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:4_state_extended_kalman_filter_in_matlab
[12:02] <edmoore> thank you
[12:02] <edmoore> i don't know if i'm using a kalman filter yet
[12:02] <Laurenceb> I need to add magnetometer to that
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[12:04] <jcoxon> hi Jon__
[12:04] <Jon__> Hiya
[12:04] <edmoore> Laurenceb: take a look at H-infinity loop shaping
[12:04] <Laurenceb> ok, sounds interesting
[12:05] <edmoore> take a look at the main papers on it
[12:05] <edmoore> glover is head of CUED
[12:05] <edmoore> Vinnicombe was my 2nd year control lecturer
[12:06] <edmoore> it has turned 'robustification' into an actual word, which I like
[12:07] <jcoxon> edmoore: http://squall.sfsu.edu/gif/jetstream_atl_h72_00.gif
[12:08] <edmoore> they have got the tail end of it haven't they
[12:08] <edmoore> missing the surf, so to speak
[12:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[12:08] <jcoxon> i will run hysplit this evening
[12:08] <jcoxon> to see what that suggests
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[12:23] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9199
[12:23] <Laurenceb> thats interesting
[12:24] <shellevil> why?
[12:24] <Laurenceb> seismometer
[12:25] <shellevil> oh - right
[12:25] <shellevil> I've got some of that
[12:25] <shellevil> different company though
[12:26] <shellevil> the cap-ADC parts, and a properly constructed cap can get _really_ good resolution
[12:27] <Laurenceb> the problem is you really need a network for filtering out local noise
[12:27] <shellevil> yeah
[12:28] <shellevil> you say your house has bedrock exposed...
[12:28] <shellevil> :)
[12:28] <Laurenceb> indeed
[12:29] Action: shellevil contemplates drilling a well again.
[12:31] <Laurenceb> oil !
[12:32] <shellevil> water
[12:32] <shellevil> To reduce bills
[12:33] <shellevil> The investment isn't huge - compared to the water component of the council tax
[12:33] <Laurenceb> this swine flu is a bit worrying - my dad works in mexico
[12:33] <shellevil> there ATM?
[12:33] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:34] <Laurenceb> near Cancun
[12:36] <shellevil> Hope this outbreak isn't too bad.
[12:38] <shellevil> What's he doing over there?
[12:40] <Laurenceb> works at the CICY plant science institute
[12:41] <shellevil> genetic?
[12:42] <shellevil> The state of that sort of thing in the UK is dire.
[12:42] <shellevil> Food production - I can see arguments for avoiding it - but killing research...
[12:46] <Laurenceb> GM banana research mostly
[12:50] <shellevil> banacco!
[13:11] <Laurenceb> http://groups.csail.mit.edu/cag/mic-array/
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[13:45] <edmoore> s'up all
[13:48] <shellevil> My tarpaulin!
[13:48] <shellevil> Finally
[13:48] <shellevil> Tarp outside garage to cover stuff while sorting it out
[13:48] <shellevil> on a heavy enough frame to survive strong winds.
[13:49] <shellevil> 30Kg++ awkward loads over your head is never fun.
[13:51] <edmoore> i can imagine
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[13:57] <edmoore_> whoops
[13:57] Nick change: edmoore_ -> ed-m0tek
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[14:22] <Laurenceb> APEx?!
[14:22] <Laurenceb> what was thast
[14:24] <ed-m0tek> ?
[14:25] <Laurenceb> on the wiki
[14:25] <Laurenceb> http://www.hexoc.com/wb/pages/balloon-project.php
[14:29] <shellevil> I wonder how many balloon requests they get
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[14:30] <jcoxon> hey all
[14:32] <ed-m0tek> yo
[14:32] <Laurenceb> I missed APEX completely
[14:32] <jcoxon> hey ed-m0tek
[14:32] <jcoxon> Laurenceb: there were only discussions about it yesterday
[14:32] <Laurenceb> oh ... did they have a NOTAM?
[14:33] <jcoxon> yes
[14:34] <Laurenceb> they knew about us?
[14:34] <jcoxon> a little it seems
[14:34] <jcoxon> they came onto irc yesterday to see if we could help with predicting where it may have landed
[14:35] <jcoxon> and i think will get invovled with ukhas
[14:35] <Laurenceb> ah
[14:35] <jcoxon> they seemed keen to try again after their exams
[14:35] <Laurenceb> interesting payload, nice linux board
[14:35] <Laurenceb> kind of similar to my aerosol project
[14:36] <Laurenceb> I'd be tempted to try the sparkfun 434MHz modems on the aerosol hab
[14:41] <Laurenceb> just log into the payload :D
[14:45] <Laurenceb> http://www.micropilot.com/products-mp2028xp.htm <- interesting - they appear to use lassen iq, 3 axis gyro and accel, and pitot tube
[14:48] <ed-m0tek> yours for $8k
[14:50] <Laurenceb> I was looking at the AD gyros, they are pretty insensitive to shock
[14:50] <Laurenceb> I think the nebula rocket design would work as envisaged
[14:51] <Laurenceb> vibration isolating mount + high order low pass filter and you can coast for several minutes on accel + gyros alone
[14:52] <Laurenceb> but the website hasnt been updated recently :-/
[14:54] <Laurenceb> I think the plan was also to use the GPS to correct the solution up to the point where it locs out
[14:55] <Laurenceb> however with the surveyor board... :P
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[16:06] <rjharrison> Wheee my PCB is on it's way from Olimex
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[17:10] <rjharrison> Yo ed
[17:10] <edmoore> hi rjharrison
[17:10] <rjharrison> Olimex have shipped !!!
[17:11] <rjharrison> 2xPCB
[17:11] <edmoore> cool
[17:11] <rjharrison> Getting exciting now. I have all the components ready to go
[17:11] <rjharrison> Thanks for the info on pullups
[17:13] <edmoore> hi kc2tua
[17:13] <edmoore> rjharrison: when are you expecting delivery?
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[17:16] <rjharrison> edmoore: i guess you know the answer better than I for that
[17:16] <rjharrison> They say 10 days
[17:16] <edmoore> fair enough
[17:17] <rjharrison> But i'm hoping this w/e
[17:17] <rjharrison> It's is airmail after all not ship
[17:17] <edmoore> ok
[17:17] <rjharrison> BTW we are modifying the dlistener to use XML to define the payload sentance
[17:17] <edmoore> that chap was from Lockheed Martin, btw
[17:17] <edmoore> kc2tua
[17:18] <rjharrison> Hehe we seem to be attracting them at the momenet
[17:18] <edmoore> well, it's about time
[17:18] <edmoore> they really should be a bit more open if they're going to push this amatewur line
[17:19] <edmoore> either that or just close up as an lockheed martin staff development program. This annoying middle ground is just winding people up the wrong way a little
[17:20] <rjharrison> I agree with that statement
[17:20] <rjharrison> It's taking the piss a bit to poach the ideas off here and pump them in LM staff fun
[17:21] <edmoore> don't mind about ideas,it's just they do actually need us
[17:21] <rjharrison> They have a few resources that they could make available to the amature world in return then there might be some synergy
[17:22] <edmoore> so they could give a bit back, yeah. Just info would be fun
[17:22] <rjharrison> Is it BB
[17:22] <rjharrison> Blackbox
[17:23] <rjharrison> It's the PHB crew IIRC?
[17:23] <edmoore> seems to be. That said, various people have been saying stuff to them so they might provide a little more info
[17:23] <edmoore> yes
[17:23] <rjharrison> I hope friday holds
[17:23] <edmoore> rather than just 'we've launched our balloon - please track it for us. ok thanks bye'
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[17:24] <edmoore> ah, talk of the devil
[17:24] <edmoore> email for you rob
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[17:57] <rjharrison> Hi james
[17:57] <rjharrison> Just PM'ed you
[17:59] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
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[19:03] <natrium42> yo
[19:03] <natrium42> jcoxon, ready for tracking? :)
[19:05] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[19:05] <jcoxon> as ready as i can be right now
[19:05] <jcoxon> not going to be able to do too much tracking
[19:05] <jcoxon> and it seems like they are going to have their own tracker page
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[19:11] <Hiena> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQHX-SjgQvQ <= Ouch...
[19:12] <natrium42> hehe
[19:12] <natrium42> old but good
[19:13] <natrium42> jcoxon, i set up puppycam with my quickcam orbit af
[19:13] <natrium42> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/lhasa-apso-puppies-cam
[19:13] <natrium42> going to use it for next launch too
[19:14] <natrium42> neat little webcam
[19:14] <jcoxon> cool cool
[19:14] <natrium42> one sec, i will let you control it
[19:14] <jcoxon> you ready to track PBH-10
[19:14] <natrium42> yah
[19:14] <natrium42> i will try to hear the signal
[19:15] <jcoxon> are they your puppys?
[19:15] <DanielRichman> is PBH launching again already? today!?
[19:15] <jcoxon> on thurs
[19:15] <jcoxon> going for trans-atlantic
[19:15] <natrium42> http://173.33.38.45
[19:15] <natrium42> there is some lag between button press
[19:15] <DanielRichman> they have money to spend
[19:15] <natrium42> and update
[19:15] <natrium42> they are my sisters puppies :P
[19:15] <jcoxon> hehe it works!
[19:15] <jcoxon> nice
[19:15] <jcoxon> they are very cute
[19:15] <natrium42> hehe
[19:16] <natrium42> 5 days old
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[19:21] <jcoxon> are PP3 connectors teh spawn of the devil?
[19:22] <natrium42> PP3?
[19:22] <jcoxon> the ones on 9v batteries
[19:22] <natrium42> oh rite
[19:22] <jcoxon> i think we now regard them as evil
[19:23] <edmoore> http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/SaveShortwave2/
[19:24] <edmoore> if you chaps want to sign that
[19:25] <jcoxon> edmoore, pp3 connectors bad?
[19:25] <edmoore> i don't mind them too much actually
[19:25] <edmoore> fairly positive springy locks
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[19:25] <edmoore> better than molex
[19:26] <natrium42> dean's connectors is where it's at :P
[19:27] <edmoore> true
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[20:01] <shellevil> As long as you don't rely on the pp3 clip do do mounting
[20:01] <shellevil> which is silly
[20:01] <shellevil> And clip the cable down so it can't pull
[20:02] <shellevil> you get something like 100+G before it's pulled off
[20:19] <DanielRichman> GPS is talking to the arduino!
[20:19] <DanielRichman> now to put it by the window and wait for a fix
[20:19] <rjharrison> Cool
[20:20] <rjharrison> It's fun when it works
[20:20] <DanielRichman> damn right ;)
[20:20] <rjharrison> NMEA or TSIP
[20:20] <DanielRichman> nmea. got it echoing what the gps says then printing some debug info, then the message that it would send over rtty were the radio plugged in
[20:20] <DanielRichman> currently looks like this:
[20:20] <DanielRichman> $$A1,00078,!!:!!:!!,!!.!!!!!!,!!!.!!!!!!,!!!!!,0000,00000000,*4F
[20:20] <DanielRichman> $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,,,,,,,*66
[20:20] <DanielRichman> $GPVTG,,,,,,,,,N*30
[20:20] <DanielRichman> 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
[20:20] <DanielRichman> $$A1,00079,!!:!!:!!,!!.!!!!!!,!!!.!!!!!!,!!!!!,0000,00000000,*4E
[20:20] <DanielRichman> $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,,,,,,,*66
[20:20] <DanielRichman> $GPVTG,,,,,,,,,N*30
[20:21] <rjharrison> OK you want to program up the lassen to put out some other sentances
[20:21] <rjharrison> RMC is good
[20:21] <DanielRichman> do we need it?
[20:21] <rjharrison> It's still in its default setting
[20:21] <DanielRichman> yeah
[20:21] <rjharrison> There is altitude in RMC
[20:21] <DanielRichman> altitude in gpgga
[20:21] <rjharrison> OK there is something in there speed perhaps
[20:22] <rjharrison> relative to ground
[20:22] <DanielRichman> gpvtg is speed ;)
[20:24] <rjharrison> DanielRichman: True
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[20:24] <rjharrison> Ignore me
[20:25] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, gps is chatting to arduino
[20:25] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, k...
[20:25] <sbasuita> $ pidgin
[20:25] <sbasuita> Segmentation fault
[20:25] <sbasuita> ...
[20:26] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, oh? pidgin used to segfault for me during huge multi user convos that I really didn't want to be in, after there was so many messages. but is it segfaulting on startup?
[20:26] <sbasuita> instant segfaul
[20:26] Action: sbasuita deletes .purple
[20:26] <rjharrison> If you do want to program in any of the other strings there is a dos program here. You will need to connect a com port to RX1 and TX1.
[20:26] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=78
[20:26] <DanielRichman> DOS?
[20:26] <DanielRichman> booo
[20:26] <DanielRichman> but cool, thanks
[20:27] <rjharrison> Talk to trimble about that
[20:27] <DanielRichman> heh. Might just end up cat stuff.bin > /dev/ttyUSB0
[20:27] <DanielRichman> or could even get the arduino to do it
[20:27] <sbasuita> say what?
[20:28] <rjharrison> They make a Trimble Studio for windoze but that dosn't seem to work for me
[20:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, rjharrison was suggesting programming the trimble to send different nmea sentences if we need them
[20:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, do we need them?
[20:28] <rjharrison> No
[20:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I don't know yet
[20:29] <rjharrison> I don't think so
[20:29] <sbasuita> me neither
[20:29] <DanielRichman> gah. the lassen sure takes its time getting a fix
[20:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, any news on the xorg memory leak?
[20:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, if I replace compiz with metacity it stops
[20:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, however, the leak itself is in the executable xorg
[20:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it seems that when you get that pause on maximising xorg jumps up its memusage
[20:29] <DanielRichman> maybe compiz is using a buggy feature of X
[20:30] <rjharrison> In the Lassen iQ data sheet is all the NMEA fields and you may want to grab the date but other than that I think you have everything there
[20:30] <DanielRichman> hmm, cool
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, only works if its fullscreen
[20:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, seems piding segfaulting is due to dodgy skype plugin
[20:30] <DanielRichman> arduino reports that it's been running for 400 seeconds... no fix yet... two satellites
[20:30] Action: sbasuita tries the non-dbus one
[20:30] <rjharrison> I'm not sure why I went for RMC for some reason.
[20:31] <rjharrison> Is the receiver outside?
[20:31] <rjharrison> Antenna?
[20:31] <DanielRichman> it was, it just started raining :X
[20:31] <rjharrison> Do you have the 5m waterproof black one
[20:31] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, wrap the antenna in clingfilm and poke it out the window
[20:32] <rjharrison> or the other exposed one?
[20:32] <DanielRichman> the antenna cable is ~8cm long
[20:32] <DanielRichman> only getting two satellites :(
[20:33] <DanielRichman> gonna boot my laptop and take it for a walk
[20:33] <DanielRichman> brb
[20:47] <DanielRichman> hmm. no luck, just gonna feed it the log from last time I connected the lassen
[20:48] Jon__ (n=chatzill@93-97-184-163.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:48] <Jon__> hi guys
[20:48] <sbasuita> jcoxon, evening
[20:48] <sbasuita> =/
[20:49] Action: sbasuita changes his xchat settings
[20:49] <sbasuita> Jon__, evening
[20:49] <sbasuita> : )
[20:50] <sbasuita> What happened to that balloon that was lost on saturday?
[20:50] <Jon__> Haven't heard anything yet, it's still missing
[20:50] <Jon__> :(
[20:50] <sbasuita> Jon__, you part of that team?
[20:50] <Jon__> Yes
[20:50] <sbasuita> aww unlucky man
[20:51] <Jon__> Version 2 is already in the works, however :)
[20:51] <sbasuita> great
[20:51] <Jon__> edmoore, are you around?
[20:51] <edmoore> briefly
[20:52] <Jon__> OK
[20:52] <Jon__> just wanted some info on the distributed listener on 434Mhz
[20:53] <Jon__> what is the listener, how could we use it, etc
[20:54] <sbasuita> Jon__, basically, you get your balloon to send out telemetry like http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol .
[20:54] <sbasuita> Jon__, people that want to listen in run a local python client that parses fldigi logs and uploads to the central web tracker
[20:54] <edmoore> and we listen to it
[20:54] <sbasuita> Jon__, and the web tracker plots a pretty map ;)
[20:54] <edmoore> we all have a little python client on our machines, which updates a server
[20:55] <edmoore> tis super simple
[20:55] <Jon__> I see, so we would require internet access to see the map on the server
[20:55] <sbasuita> Jon__, or have a phone number of somebody who could watch a webpage
[20:55] <Jon__> OK
[20:56] <edmoore> you can listen to it in the car too
[20:56] <edmoore> and enter the coordinates into google earth
[20:57] <Jon__> We would like to have a tracking station in the car
[20:57] <Jon__> Does the listener cover the whole of the UK?
[20:58] <sbasuita> Jon__, its range extends as far as the people listening can hear
[20:58] <Jon__> Fair enough :)
[20:59] <Jon__> It certainly seems to be the best option for the next launch
[21:02] <Jon__> Where is the web based tracker site?
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[21:03] <edmoore> there are a few
[21:03] <edmoore> spacenear.us/tracker
[21:03] <edmoore> robertharrison.org/track iirc
[21:03] <edmoore> one on jcoxon's site
[21:03] <edmoore> it's still a bit informal
[21:03] <Jon__> i assume they all show data from the listener?
[21:05] <edmoore> yep
[21:05] <edmoore> rjharrison is the expert on this
[21:05] <rjharrison> http://maps.google.com/?q=http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/receivers.php&t=p
[21:05] <DanielRichman> Success! it parses a data string!
[21:06] <edmoore> Jon__: so for example, I am MOTEK - that's my callsign
[21:06] <edmoore> and you can see where i listen from
[21:06] <rjharrison> BTW I just had my first rtty dx call
[21:06] <edmoore> we are looking to add to this map - looking at you :)
[21:06] <rjharrison> Yep the more the merrier who has a radio?
[21:06] <Jon__> We don't yet, but we will soon.
[21:07] <rjharrison> Ideally get something like an FT 817ND
[21:07] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, rjharrison, Arduino now parses GPS data successfully *and* does the conversion from ddm to dd :)
[21:07] <rjharrison> It will serve you well into the future
[21:07] <rjharrison> Well done you are comming along fast
[21:08] <rjharrison> You can come and launch this w/e at this rate :0
[21:08] <rjharrison> :)
[21:08] <edmoore> Jon__: if you have any money left over from Beardie, an FT-817 would make an EXCELLENT purchase
[21:08] <edmoore> DanielRichman: ok - now get rtty going and you're ready to launch
[21:08] <edmoore> great stuff
[21:09] <rjharrison> It think DanielRichman has it working using my two pin and 2 resisotrs
[21:09] <Jon__> What cameras do you use? We used a USB controlled Canon 5MP last time, but it was heavy and power hungry
[21:09] <DanielRichman> edmoore, did that on saturday ;)
[21:09] <DanielRichman> we were walking around with jcoxon's receiver seeing where we could pick it up from - it worked great
[21:09] <edmoore> Jon__: powershot A560 with CHDK script
[21:10] <rjharrison> A560 are good with lithiums CUSF
[21:10] <edmoore> basically it runs a scxript onboard that takes photos
[21:10] <rjharrison> sorted that out
[21:10] <edmoore> it's totally hands-off
[21:10] <DanielRichman> some random kid started following us for a little bit after hearing the rtty noises coming from the receiver
[21:10] <Jon__> we used CHDK on the one we just launched
[21:10] <edmoore> cool. well, that's what we use
[21:10] <rjharrison> yep that's it
[21:10] <edmoore> need to try and get an SLR for hobble
[21:10] <Jon__> OK, was just wondering if there were any alternatives, but CHDK seems to be the one to go for
[21:11] <rjharrison> I modded an isus once but chdk is easier and you can still use the camera
[21:11] <Jon__> True
[21:11] <shellevil> Or you can do the other hanky method - solenoid/servo pressing da buttons. Or elastic band.
[21:11] <shellevil> hacky
[21:11] <Jon__> Batteries were 2x Lithium Thionyl Chloride 13Ah 3.6V cells last time
[21:11] <shellevil> You should not use Mr Hanky to control cameras.
[21:12] <sbasuita> How much is an FT-817?
[21:12] <edmoore> Jon__: we used to put a mosfet across the shutter switch
[21:12] <rjharrison> RTTY QSO was with germany
[21:12] <rjharrison> DL8RBL
[21:12] <edmoore> sbasuita: it's worth it, that's how much it is :)
[21:12] <Jon__> We're aiming for running everything from just one 3.6V cell this time.
[21:12] <rjharrison> no
[21:12] <rjharrison> Just use energizer ultimates
[21:13] <rjharrison> Tried and tested many times
[21:13] <Jon__> Really :o
[21:13] <rjharrison> 4xAA for about 6 quid
[21:13] <rjharrison> Cheaper at supermarket
[21:13] <edmoore> we have found them to be about the most reliable component in balloons
[21:13] <sbasuita> Jon__, or call them up and get 96 for free
[21:13] <edmoore> though we are switching to rechargeables soon just for convenience
[21:13] <shellevil> The helium rarely goes wrong :)
[21:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, bad idea. they might get growly if tonnes of people start trying to blag batteries ;)
[21:14] <shellevil> 18650s are quite cheap - from dealextreme
[21:14] <rjharrison> lol
[21:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, we've got ours already
[21:14] <shellevil> And they are lighter than NiMH
[21:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I know that, but it's about being a nice person
[21:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, which is why Energizer would be more than happy to provide them ;)
[21:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, whoever Breton spoke too got it wrong. why the hell would we need 96 for the project
[21:15] <Jon__> the Lithium battery is 3.6V @ 5.5Ah and weighs just 50g, surely this is a weight saving over the Energisers?
[21:15] <DanielRichman> Basically we rang up, and asked for 24 batteries... and they sent us 24 packs (24 * 4 = 96!)
[21:15] <rjharrison> lol
[21:15] <rjharrison> rotfl
[21:16] <DanielRichman> £100s worth of batteries, thx! I guess it proves how much they must mark them up before selling
[21:16] <edmoore> Jon__: true, but the energisers have slightly better temperature performance
[21:16] <edmoore> and the low pressure performance of the aluminium-sachet type lithiums hasn't been all that verfified yet
[21:16] <Jon__> Fair enough, just wondering!
[21:17] Action: sbasuita wonders where he can get £400
[21:17] <Jon__> We are looking to launch again in August or September - are the CUSF facilities available then?
[21:18] <edmoore> we're around almost all summer
[21:19] <Jon__> That's great to hear, so are we
[21:19] <edmoore> can't guarantee a specific day at this point, but basically yes
[21:19] <Jon__> Fantastic
[21:19] <edmoore> it's going to be a mega summer of ballooning
[21:19] <edmoore> lots and lots and lots of flights
[21:19] <Jon__> :D
[21:19] <edmoore> lots of testing new things
[21:19] <edmoore> rockoon!!!!!!!
[21:19] <edmoore> Hobble
[21:20] <edmoore> DIY-GPS
[21:21] <Jon__> with the Lassen IQ GPS, do you buy an antenna for it? or make one?
[21:21] <rjharrison> Buy one and shorten the lead
[21:22] <rjharrison> 10 quid
[21:22] <Jon__> Right
[21:22] <edmoore> careful with shortening the lead
[21:22] <edmoore> it needs to be the correct electrical length
[21:22] <edmoore> Jon__: we do this
[21:23] <edmoore> we bought an HFL to SMA adaptor
[21:23] <edmoore> then an SMA GPS antenna
[21:23] <rjharrison> http://www.dpieshop.com/trimble-miniature-33v-gps-antenna-sma-connector-5623752-replacement-p-290.html?osCsid=lkb00ant4p3rajlmd389d3ofl7
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[21:23] <Jon__> Gotcha
[21:23] <rjharrison> The advantage of this is that you can normally get it well out the window for indoor testing
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[21:24] <Jon__> Yes I found that a problem with the last payload, although the GPS did eventually get a lock indoors
[21:24] <rjharrison> If you are cleaver cut the cable and put the opposite connector on the end of the cable then you can extend the antenna for testing and reduce it for balloon use
[21:24] <Jon__> Good idea
[21:26] <rjharrison> Ideally get a crimp tool very usefull and some sma male and female connectors
[21:26] <rjharrison> right i'm off to watch a film
[21:26] <rjharrison> with the wife before i get into trouble
[21:26] <shellevil> Wave.
[21:27] <edmoore> cya
[21:27] Action: rjharrison waves to shellevil
[21:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, phwoar! the new amarok is even better than before :P
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[21:29] <Jon__> Would it be any use to you all to have another website for the balloon tracker?
[21:29] <Jon__> I have website hosting available if its going to be useful to anyone
[21:30] <sbasuita> Jon__, perhaps you could give jcoxon's zeusbot a new home
[21:31] Matt__ (n=chatzill@host86-166-151-159.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:31] <Jon__> Sure, what's a zeusbot? Excuse ignorance.
[21:32] <sbasuita> Jon__, logs and stats for the channel. Currently on a slightly dodgy shell account
[21:32] <Jon__> Ah OK
[21:33] <Jon__> Yep that wouldn't be a problem
[21:36] <edmoore> laters all
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[21:39] <DanielRichman> Jon__, what kind of webhosting?
[21:39] <Jon__> Unix/cPanel
[21:39] <DanielRichman> But you have ssh access?
[21:39] <Jon__> I have jailshell accesss, yes
[21:40] <DanielRichman> cool
[21:40] <Jon__> www.hexoc.com is the website, not that it helps you really
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[21:42] <Laurenceb> greets
[21:42] <Laurenceb> lots of people :D
[21:42] <Jon__> Hello :)
[21:42] <Laurenceb> anyone from APEX ?
[21:43] <Jon__> project APEX, the balloon?
[21:43] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:43] <Jon__> Matt_ and I are both team members
[21:43] <Laurenceb> cool, interesting design
[21:44] <Laurenceb> to my knowledge packet radio has only been attempted once before in the UK
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[21:44] <Jon__> It's a rather unconventional design :)
[21:44] <Laurenceb> so you use PMR radios transmitting audio?
[21:44] <Jon__> Yes
[21:44] <Laurenceb> what power are they?
[21:44] <Jon__> 0.5W
[21:44] <Laurenceb> hmm
[21:45] <Jon__> Although we lost it in the end, the tracking system and electronics worked very well indeed
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[21:46] <natrium42> hi Jon__
[21:46] <natrium42> welcome to the channel
[21:46] <Jon__> Hi :)
[21:46] <natrium42> i read the backlog
[21:46] <Laurenceb> it might not be completely legal... sorry to be a nazi
[21:46] <natrium42> hopefully somebody will find your pauload
[21:47] <natrium42> *payload even
[21:47] <Jon__> We realise that now, we genuinely didn't know at the time.
[21:47] <Laurenceb> IIRC, 10mw @434, 500mw @868
[21:47] <Jon__> natrium: thank you! We hope so too
[21:47] <Jon__> Laurence: Next launch will use 434.075 Mhz at 10mW
[21:48] <Laurenceb> I like the linux board, were you able to ssh into it?
[21:48] <Laurenceb> through the radio
[21:48] <Jon__> shell over radio was something I was never able to get working
[21:48] <Jon__> Instead I implemented my own command system
[21:48] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:48] <Jon__> From the ground, I could cut down the balloon, reboot the GPS, reboot the microcontroller, extract process information from the linux machine, etc
[21:49] <natrium42> my first payload would have been lost as the gps module crashed (after going above 24km), but it luckily landed on a street in my hometown
[21:49] <Jon__> Lucky!
[21:49] <natrium42> and a guy saw it land & called me
[21:49] <Jon__> Wow
[21:49] <Matt__> how far did it travel in the end?
[21:49] <natrium42> considering that it was launched 100km away, it's quite a coincidence that it landed in home town
[21:50] <natrium42> ~100km
[21:50] <Jon__> Incredibly lucky!
[21:50] <Jon__> :D
[21:50] <natrium42> yeah
[21:50] <Matt__> :O
[21:50] <natrium42> launch town was called Lucknow
[21:50] <natrium42> maybe that's why :D
[21:50] <Jon__> Haha
[21:51] <natrium42> http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=lucknow,+ontario&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=50.015112,60.820312&ie=UTF8&ll=43.963785,-81.492634&spn=0.10836,0.11879&z=13&iwloc=A
[21:52] <Matt__> that thing could have ended up very wet looking at that map
[21:52] <natrium42> hehe
[21:52] <natrium42> well, it's similar launching in UK :P
[21:52] <Matt__> thers even a london! :p
[21:53] <natrium42> yep
[21:55] <Matt__> just out of interest, anyone put any sort of radiation detector on a balloon?
[21:55] <Matt__> ionising radiation
[21:56] <Laurenceb> if you want serial ascess, sparkfun sell some modules on 434MHz
[21:56] <Jon__> I am debating whether to make the next balloon bi-directional RTTY on 434
[21:57] <natrium42> Laurenceb didn't you plan to launch one with a particle detector?
[21:57] <sbasuita> Jon__, what other options are there?
[21:57] <Jon__> Unidirectional - the ground cannot talk TO the balloon
[21:57] <Jon__> Bit risky though - no cutdown possible.
[21:58] <shellevil> Sure it is.
[21:58] <shellevil> Timed cutdown, altitude based, polygon based, ...
[21:58] <shellevil> about the only thing you can't do is based on developing weather.
[21:59] <Jon__> True
[21:59] <Jon__> I was talking about a manual cutdown.
[21:59] <natrium42> Jon__, a good option for backup is using SPOT satellite messenger
[21:59] <shellevil> yeah
[21:59] <natrium42> Jon__, findmespot.com
[21:59] <Jon__> Having a look now
[21:59] <shellevil> It'd be nice if that'd support even a bit or two back the ohte rway
[21:59] <Matt__> do radiomatrix to bi-directional 434 modules?
[21:59] <Matt__> *do
[22:00] <shellevil> natrium42: did you work out how much it sanitises the returned GPS?
[22:00] <Jon__> SPOT looks very interesting
[22:00] <natrium42> shellevil, yeah
[22:00] <sbasuita> Matt__, the ntx2 and the nrx2 are meant to be matching pairs
[22:00] <natrium42> are you interested in my encoding decoding functions?
[22:00] <natrium42> i can put them up on that page
[22:00] <Jon__> We cannot really afford £200 though
[22:00] <Matt__> these instead? http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/bim2a.htm
[22:00] <shellevil> natrium42: not very - just wondering - I'm not going to be buying one soon
[22:01] <natrium42> 5 raw bytes can be sent
[22:01] <natrium42> kk
[22:01] <shellevil> (In that I'm interested, but wouldn't be reading them)
[22:01] <shellevil> neat
[22:01] <shellevil> 5 bytes/10 min or so?
[22:01] <natrium42> i waste 1 byte on round off
[22:01] <natrium42> well, not always
[22:01] <natrium42> sometimes the messages don't get though
[22:04] <Jon__> So what are people's opinions on bi-directional comms to the balloon?
[22:05] <Jon__> Worth the extra cost, weight & power?
[22:05] <Matt__> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/bim2a.htm ??
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[22:05] <Matt__> also we would need a rtty decoder balloon side
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[22:06] <sbasuita> We (DanielRichman and I) aren't bothering with a cutdown on our first balloon, so we've got no need for bi-directional comms.
[22:06] <sbasuita> So, you could consider removing complexity that way
[22:06] <Matt__> if were not fixed to a lanuch day its not as important
[22:08] <Laurenceb> cutdowns are easy to make
[22:08] <natrium42> Jon__, rjharrison is planning to test uplink on his next launch
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[22:08] <Jon__> We never tested our radio uplink on APEX I - we had no need
[22:09] <Jon__> it worked fine in testing, however
[22:09] <Jon__> What type of cutdown device is the most popular/effective?
[22:09] <Jon__> APEX I used nichrome wire to burn through the nylon cord
[22:10] <natrium42> that's what i use too
[22:10] <Jon__> Fair enough
[22:10] <natrium42> however folks in the UK are fond of this cutdown --> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support
[22:11] <natrium42> sealed plastic tube with rocket ignitor inside
[22:12] <natrium42> it might be better to use for heavier payloads
[22:13] <Matt__> our cutdown seemed to work fine in testing alothugh
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[22:16] <Laurenceb> se resistors
[22:16] <Laurenceb> - I use resistors of cutdowns
[22:16] Action: natrium42 uses a trained monkey in a space suit
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[22:21] <Jon__> I'm off guys
[22:21] <Jon__> Cheers all :)
[22:21] <natrium42> Jon__,
[22:21] <Matt__> cya jon
[22:21] <natrium42> G8KHW is the guy to talk to if you need balloons
[22:22] <Jon__> OK, will make a note of that!
[22:22] <natrium42> later Jon__
[22:22] <Jon__> thanks
[22:22] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[22:24] <Matt__> i better be off too
[22:24] <Matt__> thanks, bye
[22:24] <natrium42> bye
[22:25] Matt__ (n=chatzill@host86-166-151-159.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.9/2009040821]"
[22:31] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[23:04] <jcoxon> hey all
[23:04] <natrium42> yo jcoxon
[23:05] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
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[23:10] <Laurenceb> back
[23:11] Action: Laurenceb sneezes swine flu over the channel
[23:12] <natrium42> Laurenceb, http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/8ftfv/the_outbreak_of_swine_flu_should_be_renamed/
[23:12] <natrium42> XD
[23:13] <Laurenceb> rofl @ the comments
[23:13] <natrium42> hehe
[23:32] <rjharrison> Hi all
[23:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5JHMpLIqO4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F&feature=player_embedded
[23:32] <Laurenceb> the blimp ones are just amazing
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[23:55] mib_rmfkgszx (i=457980b4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-094acb63107a87a8) joined #highaltitude.
[23:56] <jcoxon> hi mib_rmfkgszx
[00:00] --- Tue Apr 28 2009