highaltitude.log.20090425

[00:00] <DanielRichman> Well there's the decimal-minutes to decimal-degrees issue, but I wrote some dodgey ascii long division code
[00:00] <Laurenceb> just use floating point
[00:00] <Laurenceb> your got 16KB to play with
[00:04] <DanielRichman> heh
[00:05] <Laurenceb> my mini rogallo code is 15KB
[00:05] <DanielRichman> our code is currently at 3kb
[00:06] <Laurenceb> sounds good
[00:06] <Laurenceb> -Os
[00:10] <DanielRichman> no
[00:10] <DanielRichman> -O2
[00:18] <Laurenceb> how so?
[00:20] <DanielRichman> What do you mean?
[00:20] <DanielRichman> Ah no. Gods no. It's as I feared.
[00:20] Action: DanielRichman has finished debugging the temperature 1wire code...
[00:20] <DanielRichman> and located the problem in Dallas' ghastly CRC.
[00:20] <Laurenceb> your burning in hell ?
[00:20] <DanielRichman> my implementation must be b0rked.
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[02:24] Action: shellevil temperature cycles some new components.
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[03:27] <Dan-K2VOL> Evening
[04:00] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone around?
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[09:53] <jcoxon> wow, PBH guys are planning another launch
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[11:28] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[11:28] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb
[11:28] <edmoore> all well?
[11:29] <Laurenceb> yeah, been bricklaying
[11:29] <Laurenceb> you?
[11:29] <edmoore> are you ooop north?
[11:30] <Laurenceb> indeed
[11:30] <edmoore> when do you start work again?
[11:30] <Laurenceb> monday
[11:31] <Laurenceb> theres no GS406 modules on sparkfun still :-/
[11:31] <Laurenceb> they said they'd got some arriving
[11:31] <Laurenceb> do you want anything from sparkfun
[11:34] <Laurenceb> I've gtg, feel free to email any additions
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[13:05] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[13:05] <edmoore> i emailed pbh
[13:05] <edmoore> asking them interested questions about their hardware
[13:06] <edmoore> it was polite
[13:06] <edmoore> ish
[13:08] <jcoxon> and...
[13:08] <edmoore> no reply yet
[13:08] <jcoxon> they can be slow
[13:08] <edmoore> just telling them to hurry up and get a website :)
[13:08] <jcoxon> yeeah
[13:08] <edmoore> if they want amateurs to listen again for them
[13:09] <DanielRichman> Ok, got the FT790 and the Radiometrix transmitter here wired up, but no luck. How do we setup fldigi and the receiver?
[13:10] <jcoxon> edmoore, its a very good point - they are relying on quite a bit of kindness
[13:11] <jcoxon> and aren't giving us anything in return
[13:11] <edmoore> exactly
[13:11] <jcoxon> i've offered spacenear.us
[13:11] <edmoore> it's not like they have a robust telemetry system of their own
[13:11] <jcoxon> as a tracking
[13:11] <jcoxon> its terrible
[13:11] <jcoxon> they use APRS and then badly thought out telem
[13:11] <jcoxon> on HF
[13:12] <edmoore> and they're not bloody amateurs for the love of god. but that's an orthogonal point
[13:12] <edmoore> the bee is buzzing around my bonnet again
[13:12] <rjharrison> lol
[13:12] <edmoore> i was glad that the slashdot article comments picked up on that
[13:13] <edmoore> 'cornell students get amateur balloon record' - lockhood martin proffessionals get amateur balloon record doesn't quite have the same ring to it. perhaps because it's a massive f*cking oxymoron
[13:14] <rjharrison> lol
[13:14] <rjharrison> Ed quick question I'm sending all the GPS input back out on the TX prot of the AVR
[13:14] <edmoore> ?
[13:15] <edmoore> oh you haven't finished the question
[13:15] <edmoore> sorry
[13:15] <rjharrison> Now every 10/15 seconds I want to send another line from the avr and I would like it to come on a seperate line to the gps data
[13:15] <rjharrison> however as the GPS output is driven by interupts.
[13:15] <rjharrison> Humm
[13:16] <rjharrison> I think I have solved it
[13:16] <rjharrison> Sorry
[13:16] <edmoore> the gps output = radio output?
[13:16] <rjharrison> No
[13:16] <rjharrison> GPS every second
[13:16] <rjharrison> then I want to log the radio out put every 10secs or so
[13:16] <edmoore> yeah, so 'gps output is driven by interrupts' doesn't quite make sense - received via interrupts?
[13:16] <rjharrison> Basically after the line has txt'd
[13:17] <rjharrison> No the gps comes in and triggers the uart char in intrrupt
[13:18] <rjharrison> In that interrrupt I was then sending the char back out on the usrt tx pin
[13:18] <rjharrison> s/usrt/uart
[13:19] <edmoore> i think i see
[13:20] <edmoore> so instead you can just add it to a quete buffer for the radio
[13:20] <edmoore> and just have a seperate interrupt sorting out that radio queue every 20 ms
[13:21] <rjharrison> Yep that sounds like a good idea
[13:21] <edmoore> that was an entirely different housekeeping process could add some other house keeping line to the queue
[13:21] <edmoore> that way*
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[13:32] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, we have got the receiver and the transmitter set up, and fldigi, but no luck. How do you configure the reciever/fldigi?
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[13:36] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, are you making tones with the ntx2?
[13:36] <shellevil> do you see nything in the fldigi waTEFALL
[13:36] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi All
[13:36] <shellevil> Or talk to jcoxon, he's done this. :)
[13:37] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, i can walk you through it
[13:37] <jcoxon> hey Dan
[13:37] <jcoxon> hey Dan-K2VOL
[13:37] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi jcoxon, how's the day going
[13:37] <jcoxon> good thanks
[13:38] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, in the logs i see you've been on in the quiet periods when its night here
[13:38] <jcoxon> need to get some more US people on - sort of 2 shifts of conversations
[13:38] <Dan-K2VOL> haha yes, it sure is quiet
[13:39] <Dan-K2VOL> I think that's a great idea, having the Mibbit chat clients really help, IRC is sometimes hard to approach for the unfamiliar
[13:39] <jcoxon> on the tracker page?
[13:40] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, and perhaps other places too
[13:40] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, don't worry. found the fault with a multimeter - I had forgotten a wire
[13:40] <DanielRichman> Fldigi is now spewing "Hello World" - SUCCESS!
[13:40] <jcoxon> good work
[13:40] <jcoxon> that was easy
[13:40] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, just to say we've been playing with the ukhas standard for a bit
[13:41] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, where can I find the updated standard?
[13:42] <Dan-K2VOL> oh is that the tracker protocol?
[13:42] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:dlistener
[13:43] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, though its still in a bit of flux - don't feel you need to completely be up to date - we are still drafting it
[13:43] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, yeah, makes life easier if we all standardise the telem strings
[13:43] <shellevil> DanielRichman: congratulations!
[13:44] <DanielRichman> Hmm. Fldigi appears to have changed its message from "Hello World" to "Never gonna give you up..."
[13:45] <shellevil> jcoxon: have you considered specifying field names every 60th transmission or something?
[13:46] <jcoxon> shellevil, interesting idea
[13:46] <shellevil> If the time field is "Time", and the checksum matches, ...
[13:47] <shellevil> I mean largely for the custom data, it'd mean that it could display prettily on the tracker with no manual intervention
[13:47] <shellevil> well - no manual intervention on the tracker
[13:48] <Dan-K2VOL> jcoxon, we found that the simple 2-byte checksum is sometimes not good for long messages at the slow data rates of RTTY
[13:49] <shellevil> you mean 2 decimal chars?
[13:49] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, at present the checksum isn't implemented - its more futureproofing
[13:49] <Dan-K2VOL> we used a checksum digit for each telemetry channel, which allows you to recover at least some of the information
[13:49] <shellevil> Dan-K2VOL: going thtat route, you might almost as well do FEC.
[13:50] <shellevil> Dan-K2VOL: as with multiple checksums, you rapidly approach the same overhead.
[13:50] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm not too familiar with forward error correction, but the way we did it, it wasn't too bad for overhead:
[13:50] <jcoxon> the main reason for it is that its a nice way to for the client to find the end of the string
[13:50] <shellevil> But this does require a patched fldigi, or other thing, as otherwise single bit errors will knock it out.
[13:51] <jcoxon> searches for $$ at the start and * at the end
[13:51] <Dan-K2VOL> just use a single alpha character for the checksum
[13:51] <shellevil> 'worst' case - checksum, and some sanity checking - under mach 1, ...
[13:51] <shellevil> catches most of it
[13:51] <Dan-K2VOL> for each telemetry value
[13:52] <Dan-K2VOL> the problem is that you have fading in the middle of telemetry sometimes, which would normally just knock the whole string out of validity
[13:53] <Dan-K2VOL> sorry I have a laggy connection her
[13:55] <shellevil> This brings up my earlier idea. 16-24 bit packets. For about 8 telemetry packet types, take a packet value byte, a packet type byte, and hash. You send infrequently changing data - whole degrees - every 100th packet or so. The alt and last byte of the position get sent every 5th or so packet
[13:56] <Dan-K2VOL> that's a good idea
[13:56] <shellevil> With 16 bit packets, this gets you a 5 bit 'checksum'
[13:56] <Dan-K2VOL> saves battery
[13:56] <shellevil> with 24 bit, 13
[13:56] <shellevil> and you can do maximal likelyhood with the latter too
[13:57] <jcoxon> shellevil, you should implement something and then we can test launch it
[13:57] <shellevil> yeah
[13:57] <shellevil> I should
[13:57] <Dan-K2VOL> for fitting the checksum into the LTRS RTTY charachter set you can use a Modulo 26 I think to get the checksum
[13:58] <jcoxon> shellevil, how would we decode it?
[13:58] <Dan-K2VOL> after XORing all the bytes
[13:58] <shellevil> jcoxon: you take 2 or 3 byte packets, and then look them up in a table to get the most likely packet+packet value - is the simplest most stupid way.
[13:59] <Dan-K2VOL> are you guys talking about RTTY telemetry transmission or another format?
[13:59] <shellevil> jcoxon: then you run the data from them into a cache, that keeps the infrequent packet types
[14:00] <shellevil> Dan-K2VOL: it would work with rtty, but has the disadvantage of being unreadable to humans.
[14:00] <shellevil> The basic huge advantage is that you can live with channels that you get 50% of the time corruption in a sequence of 2 or 3 bytes
[14:00] <Dan-K2VOL> the problem with using 16 bits in rtty is that RTTY can only hold 5 bits of data per character, so it wouldn't be a neat 2-character string like other modes
[14:01] <shellevil> Oh - I thought rtty was agnostic as to the bits.
[14:01] <shellevil> being just a serial protocol
[14:03] <Dan-K2VOL> with rtty there are only 32 characters
[14:04] <Dan-K2VOL> but the shift character gets you another set, switching between numbers and letters
[14:04] <Dan-K2VOL> http://nemesis.lonestar.org/reference/telecom/codes/baudot.html
[14:04] <shellevil> hmm
[14:05] <shellevil> I need to sit down at some point and work something simple and easy to transmit and robust out.
[14:05] <Dan-K2VOL> so you want to minimize alternating numbers and letters as much as possible, as each time it has to send a non-printing control code to shift to LTRS or NUM
[14:05] <edmoore> afternoon everyone
[14:05] <shellevil> afternoon.
[14:05] <edmoore> oh it's wear our ham-badge to work day
[14:05] <Dan-K2VOL> afternoon
[14:05] Nick change: edmoore -> ed-M0TEK
[14:06] Action: shellevil is trying to avoid dragging heavy things around the garden.
[14:06] <kleinjt> good morning
[14:06] <ed-M0TEK> Dan-K2VOL: pleasure to meet you on irc
[14:06] <ed-M0TEK> following the SNOX stuff with great interest
[14:07] <ed-M0TEK> that should probably be past tense
[14:07] <Dan-K2VOL> well I've got to get going, but have a good day all! I'm trying to dig up our SNOX telemetry description to release
[14:07] <ed-M0TEK> see you
[14:07] <ed-M0TEK> jcoxon: when is arabic exam?
[14:07] <Dan-K2VOL> haha thanks, Ed. nice to see you too
[14:07] <ed-M0TEK> good morning kleinjt
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[14:08] <jcoxon> monday at 10
[14:09] <ed-M0TEK> mine too
[14:09] <ed-M0TEK> but not arabic
[14:09] <ed-M0TEK> which reminds me, i need to offer up a sacrifice to the God of Information Theory so my exam goes ok
[14:09] <ed-M0TEK> (David Mackay)
[14:09] <jcoxon> hehe
[14:13] <jcoxon> then i'm in labour ward for the next 3 days
[14:13] <ed-M0TEK> congratulations
[14:13] <jcoxon> so am going to be tres busy
[14:13] <ed-M0TEK> you never mentioned before
[14:14] <ed-M0TEK> do you know what sex or are you saving it as a surprise?
[14:14] <jcoxon> hehe
[14:15] <jcoxon> the plan is to catch other peoples ones :-p
[14:15] <ed-M0TEK> ah
[14:17] <ed-M0TEK> good that dan bowen is around
[14:18] <jcoxon> yeah
[14:18] <ed-M0TEK> it sounds almost like they're flirting with another attempt
[14:19] <jcoxon> i don't think they are - they are just opening up their data
[14:19] <jcoxon> and want someones else to fly a mission
[14:19] <jcoxon> its about time we had an 'open' mission
[14:19] <jcoxon> cause they had loads of hams listening in to their flights
[14:19] <ed-M0TEK> yeah
[14:19] <jcoxon> pbh had very few commited people
[14:20] <ed-M0TEK> because they are poo heads
[14:20] <jcoxon> there was a time in the last flight where i could have probably fired their ballast for them
[14:20] <jcoxon> and they said don't
[14:23] <ed-M0TEK> can even film the payload being boxed up and taken to the DHL depot for canada whn you do yours
[14:23] <jcoxon> :-)
[14:23] <ed-M0TEK> with some silly comment to the box before it leaves like 'this is the easy crossing'
[14:23] <ed-M0TEK> or 'see you in a few days'
[14:23] <jcoxon> round trip!
[14:24] <jcoxon> got my flight computer working earlier
[14:24] <jcoxon> so am going to do a simple launch soon to test it in the air
[14:24] <jcoxon> then can add the ballast tanks
[14:26] <ed-M0TEK> ok cool
[14:26] <ed-M0TEK> i want to play with values on latex balloons now
[14:26] <ed-M0TEK> i think it's potentially easier and cheaper than dual balloons
[14:27] <ed-M0TEK> and will need to get some float time for hobble
[14:27] <jcoxon> well my work might help
[14:27] <jcoxon> :-
[14:27] <jcoxon> 0
[14:27] <jcoxon> oops
[14:27] <jcoxon> :-)
[14:29] <ed-M0TEK> indeed!
[14:29] <ed-M0TEK> if you made the fill valve part of the apparatus, that might make balloon inflation easier too
[14:30] <DanielRichman> What's the best shift (RTTY) to use for radio comms?
[14:30] <ed-M0TEK> or rather, if you make the balloon valve part of the fill apparatus, that might make the fill process easier
[14:30] <ed-M0TEK> we use 450Hz DanielRichman
[14:30] <ed-M0TEK> has yet to fail us
[14:30] <jcoxon> 425Hz
[14:30] <ed-M0TEK> whatever
[14:30] <ed-M0TEK> filters can deal with it :)
[14:44] <gordonjcp> DanielRichman: depends on quite a few things, but 170Hz and 425Hz are pretty common
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[14:57] <mc-> jcoxon, what was the command tocut
[14:58] <mc-> to drop balast?
[14:58] <jcoxon> it was some CW
[14:59] <mc-> was tryin to think of a robust comand
[15:00] <mc-> was it a long cw comand?
[15:01] <mc-> with chksum?
[15:01] <jcoxon> no
[15:03] <mc-> it could be synced with gps, so it wouldnt false trigger
[15:05] <mc-> e.g. only accepts comand every 60secs
[15:05] <jcoxon> hmm its hard enough getting an upload
[15:05] <mc-> true, a little DSP would help
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[15:24] <mc-> Ed,hows exams?
[15:45] <ed-M0TEK> mc-: sorry for slow response, am plugged into ipod therefore total sensory depravation
[15:45] <ed-M0TEK> exams are going ok, thanks
[15:46] <ed-M0TEK> got the nasties and the spurious ones out the way
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[15:49] <shellevil> :)
[15:56] <ed-M0TEK> glorious sexual info theory left
[15:56] <ed-M0TEK> + some dynamics
[15:57] Action: shellevil ponders sexual information theory.
[15:57] <shellevil> How many bits can you encode into one hip-thrust.
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[17:20] <Hiena> shellevil, if it's on the right time about 1.678 TB/sec.
[17:25] <shellevil> Hiena: yes, I was about to make that comment, but decided against it.
[17:25] <shellevil> Umm, and I think that is far too low.
[17:25] <Hiena> So you know that qdb quote.
[17:25] <shellevil> no
[17:26] <Hiena> http://qdb.us/262095?%2F
[17:26] <shellevil> ah
[17:26] <shellevil> 1, makes sense
[17:26] <shellevil> 1. - not
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[17:29] <Hiena> Sorry here has a different digit marks. . means thousand
[17:30] <shellevil> ah
[17:30] <shellevil> yeah - the UK way is to not do it at all
[17:30] <shellevil> Though at least , is unambiguous
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[17:48] <jcoxon> hey G8KHW
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[18:05] <DanielRichman> Radio TX Success! Good signal after 800m away from transmitter (just a lump of wire, not even a proper aerial on 2nd floor) with laptop in woods. Although the laptop battery ran out so we had to turn back... :(
[18:08] <shellevil> :)
[18:11] <DanielRichman> It's daniel's old laptop - only lasts 30 mins ;)
[18:11] <DanielRichman> 100% when we left, took like 4 measurements, then it was 0%. Hibernation in between....
[18:12] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, good work
[18:12] <jcoxon> it works a lot better in the air
[18:12] Action: shellevil passes DanielRichman dealextreme.com's 18650 selection.
[18:12] <shellevil> re-celling laptop batteries isn't generally hard
[18:13] <rjharrison> DanielRichman Radio is amazing when you first star playing with it
[18:18] <shellevil> Mmmm. This pie turned out well.
[18:18] <shellevil> oops
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[18:45] Nick change: G8KHW -> G8KHW_Away
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[19:30] <rjharrison> Ping G8KHW_Away
[19:35] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[19:35] <natrium42> Ping G8KHW_Away
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[19:40] <rjharrison> He's a wanted man G8KHW_Away
[19:40] <rjharrison> yo ed
[19:40] <rjharrison> Mad my first DX call today on the G5RV I set up
[19:40] <rjharrison> Made
[19:41] <edmoore> yo
[19:41] <rjharrison> Called Norway and Switzerland
[19:41] <edmoore> cool
[19:41] <rjharrison> It was a shock when they heard me even better that my signal was 59
[19:42] <edmoore> that is cool
[19:42] <rjharrison> natrium42 we should try DX one day
[19:42] <edmoore> i am hoping to listen out hard for pbh3
[19:42] <edmoore> phb
[19:42] <edmoore> i always gets confused by that
[19:42] <edmoore> PBH is the best lecturer in all of cambridge
[19:43] <edmoore> http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/site2002/People/bursill-hall_p.html
[19:44] <rjharrison> My frustration is that I can't DX in the UK
[19:44] <rjharrison> Hehe nice artwork
[19:44] <edmoore> wynot?
[19:44] <rjharrison> Well every time I try to DX Jcoxon it dosn't work
[19:44] <rjharrison> Perhaps I should try USB on 6m
[19:45] <edmoore> after exams I will head to the shack
[19:45] <edmoore> and point a 5-el yagi at you
[19:45] <edmoore> and 400W
[19:45] <rjharrison> Sure we can give it a whirl it would be cool
[19:45] <rjharrison> You have a liner amp there then
[19:47] <edmoore> yup
[19:47] <edmoore> there's some nice kit in t'shack
[19:47] <edmoore> the GB4FUN is just amazing
[19:47] <edmoore> though*
[19:47] <edmoore> it's like a mobile military command centre
[19:47] <edmoore> would be the best place for operating a balloon mission ever
[19:49] <natrium42> rjharrison, sure, once i get my license :)
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[19:50] <edmoore> natrium42: get your license!
[19:50] <natrium42> yes, gosh
[19:50] <natrium42> i know i am lazy when it comes to bureaucracy
[19:50] <natrium42> :P
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[19:51] <natrium42> hi Dan-K2VOL
[19:51] <edmoore> hi Dan-K2VOL
[19:52] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi guys
[19:54] <edmoore> have you had much contact with these PBH guys?
[19:54] <edmoore> PHB/HPB/BPH/whatever
[19:55] <natrium42> they emailed me asking about my address so that they can send me a gift for helping with the tracking
[19:55] <Dan-K2VOL> No, not anything really
[19:55] <edmoore> oh that's decent of 'em
[19:55] <edmoore> they could do with throwing a few more bones to the amateur community
[19:55] <edmoore> if they are relying on us to track it for them
[19:55] <natrium42> hehe, i haven't replied yet
[19:56] <edmoore> would be nice to see the sort of harware they're using
[19:56] <natrium42> indeed
[19:56] <edmoore> I think we all know the 'amateur' label is a bit tenuous for them anyway so we may aswell see that they're using aerostar ZPs or something :)
[19:57] <natrium42> ok, i replied
[19:58] <natrium42> "Please reply to this email with a mailing address so we can send you a token of our appreciation and again, thank you very much."
[19:58] <natrium42> me --> "I would be quite happy with a picture and the description of the payload :)"
[19:58] <edmoore> :D
[19:58] <rjharrison> BTW guys looks like Icarus might make it into the sparkfun project page
[19:58] <edmoore> we got an offer of that a bit back. Never got round to emailing them pictures.
[19:59] <rjharrison> I was talking to them last week after they sent me knackered GPS Eval board
[19:59] <edmoore> I was more after free parts from them, tbh :)
[19:59] <rjharrison> They are tight over there
[20:00] <rjharrison> I had to lift the iQ headder off myself and replace it. They are sending me gratis in my next order 2 iQ headders
[20:00] <edmoore> The worst they can do is say no. We're a pretty captured market
[20:01] <edmoore> the iQ doesn't do altitude all that well
[20:01] <edmoore> very stick estimation filters
[20:01] <edmoore> sticky*
[20:01] <edmoore> roll-on the ublox switch
[20:01] <rjharrison> Yep but they are pricy
[20:01] <rjharrison> At least of the ublox site
[20:01] <edmoore> sure, but the dynamic prediction algorithm will benefit a great great deal from an improvement in altitude noise
[20:02] <edmoore> oh god no, don't buy them from there
[20:02] <edmoore> alpha micro components
[20:02] <rjharrison> Any other places
[20:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Dynamic prediction? Landing?
[20:03] <edmoore> our tracking software updates the predicted landing spot every telemetry frame during the flight
[20:03] <edmoore> so the more accurate the ascent rate data, the better its results.
[20:03] <edmoore> 'dynamic' to distinguish between that and a pre-flight prediction
[20:05] <Dan-K2VOL> Gotcha
[20:06] <edmoore> we're reasonably prediction-obsessed over here, but that's because you don't have to go too far in any direction before it lands in the sea
[20:07] <Dan-K2VOL> That's understandable, we have some of the same, but due to the smoky mountain range just east of Knoxville
[20:08] <edmoore> yeah, I guess mountain recoveries aren't much fun
[20:08] <edmoore> what prediction software do you use?
[20:09] <Dan-K2VOL> They have a very low success, they are tree covered
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[20:09] Nick change: G8KHW_Away -> G8KHW
[20:10] <Dan-K2VOL> For latex local flights, just BallTraclk
[20:11] <edmoore> hysplit for the cool stuff :)
[20:11] <Dan-K2VOL> NOAA hysplit for zp
[20:11] <edmoore> I've not come across balltraclk
[20:11] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[20:11] <Dan-K2VOL> It's on eoss.org
[20:11] <rjharrison> That ublox stuff is very interesting
[20:11] <Dan-K2VOL> Balltrack
[20:12] <edmoore> just found it
[20:12] <edmoore> we've written our own, if you're interested (probably much for much)
[20:12] <Dan-K2VOL> Very handy
[20:12] <edmoore> cuspaceflight.co.uk/predict
[20:12] <edmoore> tis Beta but I think I can safely say(ish) that it all works now, without angering too many gods
[20:13] <edmoore> if you run it now with the defaults, you'll see what I'm talking about
[20:13] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh cool, I would like to see, but I'm on the iPhone, would you mind emailing to me at dan@spiritofknoxville.com
[20:13] <edmoore> sure np - though it works on iphones!
[20:14] <Dan-K2VOL> Really! Nice!
[20:14] <Dan-K2VOL> I get removed from chat to follow links :-)
[20:14] <edmoore> ah np
[20:14] <edmoore> we demo'd it in the pub on someone's iphone the other day
[20:17] <edmoore> so what are you up to nwadays Dan-K2VOL ?
[20:18] <edmoore> any more balloon flights?
[20:18] <Dan-K2VOL> I've been thinking about organizing an x-prize contest for amateur balloon flight
[20:19] <edmoore> cool - what sort of objective?
[20:20] <Dan-K2VOL> I've moved away from Knoxville,so I don't have a local balloon crew
[20:20] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm open to suggestion, but likely long duration/distance
[20:21] <Dan-K2VOL> Perhaps it should be who can cross the most countries before getting shot down :-P
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[20:21] <edmoore> :)
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[20:21] <edmoore> could go for a space rocket
[20:22] <edmoore> a rockoon
[20:22] <edmoore> though I admit an inside interest in that
[20:22] <Dan-K2VOL> But the purpose would be to spread amateur science knowledge by requiring openness
[20:23] <Dan-K2VOL> Haha that does sound cool
[20:23] <edmoore> Dan I very much agree
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[20:23] <edmoore> these projects that are black boxes do annoy me
[20:24] <rjharrison> Yep openness is cool
[20:24] <edmoore> suddenly they require help from amateurs, then they go back into their shells
[20:24] <rjharrison> In fact I'm writing up exactly how I went about Icarus.
[20:25] <Dan-K2VOL> I can understand wanting to keep hard work's benefit, so what do you guys think about releasing source and design upon launch
[20:25] <edmoore> all our stuff is on an svn currently anyway
[20:26] <edmoore> though some of that might have to chance, come to think of it
[20:26] <edmoore> change*
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL> Snox is certainly guilty of that, but I am releasing all the info I can shortly on the website
[20:26] <edmoore> public svn, i shouldsay
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL> That's a great way to do it ed
[20:27] <edmoore> we're attempting a rockoon, and there's a certain element that stops you wanting to make the plans for a space rocket a bit too available for anyone to copy
[20:27] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=78&mosmsg=Item+successfully+saved.
[20:27] <rjharrison> Not many people have your resources though ed
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL> Haha you know how it feels
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[20:29] <edmoore> i mean in things like the GPS
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL> Well I've got to run guys, but do think about things you might like to see in a balloon x-prize contest
[20:29] <edmoore> that's an important enabling technology
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL> Yes
[20:29] <edmoore> and it's not a resource issue in that case, anyone could make one
[20:29] <edmoore> they just have to design a gps decoder
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL> Withou that, this would all be rather difficult
[20:30] <edmoore> well, i mean a gps that can do mach 5 and 100km
[20:30] <edmoore> without cutting out
[20:30] <edmoore> we had to design and build one
[20:30] <rjharrison> Yep and that took you egg heads a good week if I rememeber and probably a failed degree in there too :)
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[20:30] <edmoore> thanks for the confidence
[20:30] <edmoore> :p
[20:31] <rjharrison> hallam wasn't it
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[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> Really edmoore, would love to hear how you got around the speed restrict
[20:31] <rjharrison> or laurence
[20:31] <edmoore> Dan-K2VOL: build your own
[20:31] <edmoore> tis the simple answer
[20:31] <rjharrison> They made their own gps decoder
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> Wow
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> Thats pretty cool, must have taken a pretty spiffy receiver
[20:32] <rjharrison> 1/2 of it is in the logs
[20:32] <edmoore> Dan-K2VOL: it uses an RF front end that spits out the IQ data
[20:32] <rjharrison> A blue one if i remember for about 120$
[20:32] <edmoore> then all the processing takes place on a dsp
[20:32] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice work, whats your weight and current draw
[20:33] <rjharrison> Depends what they add to the box!
[20:33] <edmoore> weight is nothing (it's a like 7cm x 5cm pcb) but the power consumption is non trivial
[20:33] <edmoore> i don't know for sure but 150mA would be about right
[20:34] <edmoore> it's because all the correlation aquisition and tracking is done in software on a fast dsp, rather than in parallel on an fpga
[20:34] <rjharrison> Talking of which I'm waiting for my PCB's to come back from olimex
[20:34] <Dan-K2VOL> Not too bad, considering the shortness of a rovket flight
[20:34] <edmoore> awesome
[20:34] <edmoore> Dan-K2VOL: the nice thing is that you can include an accelerometer on the gps so that it can correct for all the doppler caused by the rocket
[20:34] <rjharrison> I already made some significant mods for board 2
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[20:35] <edmoore> unfortunately it looks like hallam has a job this summer
[20:35] <rjharrison> But I guess that's not surprizing for my first attempt
[20:35] <edmoore> so i think fergus and i will have to get him to download as much of his intuition as we can before he leaves
[20:35] <rjharrison> Hehe
[20:36] <rjharrison> hallam rocked on that decode. Quite scary what you guys can do when you put your mind to it
[20:37] <edmoore> have got a whole summer ofr being able to do that!
[20:37] <edmoore> i can't wait
[20:39] <edmoore> so many cool projects to work on
[20:40] <edmoore> speaking of resources, we are being turfed out of the autoclave room
[20:41] <edmoore> back to bedrooms
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[21:35] Nick change: stilldavid -> dave
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[22:19] <Laurenceb> hello
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[22:39] <shellevil> hello
[22:41] Action: Laurenceb has been observing the slabath
[22:41] <Laurenceb> or would that be the slabbath
[22:42] Action: shellevil has been observing the slobboth.
[22:42] Action: shellevil is trying temperature cycling a new device.
[22:43] <shellevil> Raspberry and apple pie. The one I cooked fresh is lovely, trying freezong a couple.
[22:44] <Laurenceb> :P
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[22:45] <Laurenceb> cutting concrete with diamond blades is fun
[22:46] <Laurenceb> I've got a nice 1.5Kw angle grinder from screwfix
[22:47] <gordonjcp> hah
[22:48] <Laurenceb> its rather complex, the back of the patio is built into bedrock
[22:49] <Laurenceb> I've had to build retaining walls then sculpt the paving around the rock outcrops
[22:49] <shellevil> Cutting concrete is fun.
[22:49] <shellevil> The dust in't :)
[22:50] <Laurenceb> yeah my chest feels sore :-/
[22:50] <shellevil> I went for the nuclear option. Binbag on head, hosepipe from source of clean air.
[22:50] <Laurenceb> rofl
[22:50] <shellevil> Much nicer than any but the best masks.
[22:51] <Laurenceb> I was just trying to rely on the strong wind
[22:51] <shellevil> Yes, look silly, but replacing lungs is a boring operation.
[22:51] <shellevil> yeah - doesn't work so well with the volumes of dust :)
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[23:40] <Laurenceb> lol > http://www.topatoco.com/graphics/qw-cheatsheet-print-zoom.jpg
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[00:00] --- Sun Apr 26 2009