highaltitude.log.20090422

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[02:55] <A-_> I asked early this morning, but figured I'd ask once more with a new bunch of people in the channel: Does anyone have either a library or some example code for aprs parsing in python?
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[04:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Evening
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[04:02] Nick change: stilldavid -> dave
[04:02] Nick change: dave -> stilldavid
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[07:05] <jcoxon> morning
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[07:08] <stilldavid> evening :)
[07:11] <natrium42> is 2 am still technically evening?
[07:13] <jcoxon> hehe
[07:19] <jcoxon> so might have another zp launch to track this weekend
[07:23] <jcoxon> natrium42, out of interest there was a guy in canada who could monitor the pbh-9 flight
[07:24] <natrium42> who?
[07:24] <jcoxon> http://va3qv.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/kc2tua-8-still-up-and-heading-east/
[07:26] <jcoxon> VA3RCS//VA3QV
[07:26] <jcoxon> might be a good person to speak to as someone to help out with tracking
[07:29] <natrium42> k, i will try to contact him
[07:29] <natrium42> so which zp launch this weekend? bill browns?
[07:30] <jcoxon> yeah perhaps bill
[07:30] <jcoxon> as it isn't CW it might be easier to track with the DLClient
[07:30] <jcoxon> onto spacenear.us - if thats okay with you
[07:37] <natrium42> sure, of course
[07:37] <natrium42> which mode is he going to use?
[07:37] <jcoxon> dominoEx and rtty i think
[07:37] <natrium42> but it's not HF, right...
[07:37] <jcoxon> definitely the domino
[07:37] <jcoxon> no it'll be HF
[07:38] <natrium42> orly?
[07:38] <natrium42> he said no HF to me in chat
[07:38] <natrium42> did he change his mind?
[07:39] <jcoxon> oh, if he had launched last weekend it would have been a non-hf
[07:39] <jcoxon> oh perhaps it won't be HF
[07:39] <natrium42> i think it was on Monday that he said that
[07:40] <jcoxon> i do remember you telling me
[07:40] <jcoxon> oh i hope its HF
[07:40] <jcoxon> he certainly has a HF transmitter
[07:40] <natrium42> we should push him to use HF :D
[07:41] <jcoxon> :-)
[07:41] <natrium42> btw, it looks easy to get your own radio onto globaltuners
[07:41] <natrium42> i will probably do that for next launch
[07:41] <natrium42> IC-7000 is supported
[07:42] <jcoxon> sounds like a good idea
[07:42] <jcoxon> though if you got a signal it would be great to run the client as well
[07:43] <natrium42> does fldigi adjust the frequency automatically as signal drifts?
[07:43] <natrium42> that would be neat
[07:44] <jcoxon> as in when it drifts off the waterfall?
[07:46] <natrium42> well, what if it's still within the waterfall?
[07:47] <jcoxon> yeah i'll track quite a bit
[07:47] <jcoxon> it'll
[07:47] <jcoxon> i've also made scanning function with the client
[07:48] <jcoxon> it tells fldigi to move the decode lines up and down the waterfall looking for a signal
[07:48] <jcoxon> the only issues is that its quite slow
[07:48] <jcoxon> but on a continous transmission it'll find the signal
[07:48] <natrium42> awesome
[07:49] <natrium42> i just don't want to be awake all the time when we launch :)
[07:50] <jcoxon> hehe we can do shifts
[07:50] <natrium42> true
[07:50] <jcoxon> the scanning function won't work as well on a busy channel
[07:50] <icez> drink coffee alllll night long *burp*
[07:50] <jcoxon> as it'll find other signals and monitor them
[07:50] <jcoxon> really need the human ear
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[07:51] <jcoxon> natrium42, what would be cool would be to have your radio on globaltuners
[07:51] <jcoxon> and have fldigi and the client in the background
[07:51] <jcoxon> by the people tuning to the correct freq
[07:51] <jcoxon> the signal will be within the waterfall
[07:51] <jcoxon> and the client can find it
[07:53] <jcoxon> and then they can loop back the sound if they want and decoding it all themselves
[07:58] <jcoxon> right off to lectures
[07:58] <jcoxon> cya
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[08:47] <natrium42> yo edmoore
[08:48] <natrium42> any idea what to do with a half-empty helium tank?
[08:48] <natrium42> party? talk in high pitched voice all day?
[08:48] <edmoore> party!
[08:48] <edmoore> surround yourself with balloons
[08:48] <natrium42> :D
[08:48] <edmoore> super-mega-under-filled balloon
[08:48] <edmoore> with a vent
[08:49] <edmoore> go for a latex endurance record
[08:49] <edmoore> oh my god
[08:49] <edmoore> sounds like pbh is still alive
[08:50] <edmoore> fuck
[08:51] <natrium42> where did you hear that??
[08:53] <gordonjcp> edmoore: hm?
[08:53] <gordonjcp> any idea where it is?
[08:57] <natrium42> edmoore, edmoore edmoore
[08:57] <natrium42> i made him out of clay
[09:00] <edmoore> natrium42 gordonjcp just got an email from wb8elk
[09:00] <edmoore> you're copied in natrium42
[09:00] <natrium42> hmm
[09:00] <natrium42> i don't see any emailz
[09:00] <edmoore> 1700 UTC - 13365 N34271 W48411 390 98 < - so the 1650 UTC was indeed N34222
[09:00] <edmoore>
[09:00] <edmoore> looks like you are slowly ascending.....you might make it across the Pond at this rate.
[09:00] <edmoore> from wb8elk
[09:01] <edmoore> check out the gpsl yahoo group
[09:01] <edmoore> natrium@gmail is def cc'd in
[09:01] <natrium42> weird
[09:02] <natrium42> ooooh
[09:02] Action: natrium42 slaps edmoore with a clue stick
[09:03] <edmoore> what have i missed?
[09:03] <natrium42> that email is dated april 20
[09:03] <natrium42> :P
[09:03] <natrium42> old news is old
[09:03] <edmoore> wow
[09:03] <edmoore> i just got it an hour ago
[09:04] <edmoore> ok well guys you have to get trans-a across so that actual amateurs get the amateur record rather than that lockheed martin rabble
[09:04] <natrium42> what are your settings for that group?
[09:04] <natrium42> hehe
[09:04] <edmoore> just forward everything direct
[09:04] <natrium42> well, we will try
[09:04] <natrium42> are you going to join? we moved the launch to fall
[09:06] Action: natrium42 Zzz
[09:06] <edmoore> will see how life goes!
[09:06] <edmoore> sleep well
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[15:53] <jcoxon> afternoon all
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[16:38] <jcoxon> sbasuita, hows the radio coming along?
[16:39] <sbasuita> jcoxon, haven't tried any transmission with the ntx2 yet
[16:39] <sbasuita> i've got the radio
[16:39] <sbasuita> and daniel's got the arduino
[16:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:39] <jcoxon> well for the next launch you guys can setup a tracking station
[16:40] <jcoxon> recommend you make a better antenna - while not perfect a Moxon is a good choice
[16:40] <jcoxon> and it can be made out of coat hangers
[16:40] <jcoxon> http://www.moxonantennaproject.com/sm5jab/sm5jab_2.htm
[16:41] <gordonjcp> for 70cm?
[16:41] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:41] <gordonjcp> surely a normal yagi is small enough?
[16:41] <jcoxon> yes but harder to make
[16:41] <gordonjcp> !
[16:41] <gordonjcp> it's the same as a moxon but without the ends bent over!
[16:42] <jcoxon> hehe you want more elements!
[16:42] <jcoxon> its more work :-)
[16:43] <gordonjcp> not *much* more and the gain is worth it
[16:43] <gordonjcp> look at the k5oe handi-tenna
[16:44] <gordonjcp> incidentally if you want me to make you some folded dipoles for those let me know, I found the jig today ;-)
[16:44] <jcoxon> was just about to ask about your jig
[16:45] <gordonjcp> it's for bending folded dipoles with nicely-rounded ends ;-)
[16:45] <jcoxon> i remember when you were constructing it
[16:46] <sbasuita> surely it's not that hard to make a yagi?
[16:46] <gordonjcp> sbasuita: not really, no
[16:46] <jcoxon> its not hard at all
[16:47] <gordonjcp> I'll sell you a complete built one, if you want
[16:47] Action: sbasuita thinks about cantenna's
[16:47] <sbasuita> oops
[16:47] <gordonjcp> cantenna != yagi
[16:47] <sbasuita> grammar fail
[16:48] <gordonjcp> the Rob Flickenger design with the threaded rod and washers *sucks*
[16:48] <gordonjcp> it works better sideways
[16:49] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, why isn't the cantenna a yagi?
[16:50] <gordonjcp> sbasuita: well, a properly-made cantenna is a stopped waveguide
[16:50] <gordonjcp> sbasuita: the Flickenger design isn't really anything
[16:52] <gordonjcp> characteristically a Yagi has a reflector, a dipole as the driven element some distance less than 1/4 wavelength from the reflector, then optionally some directors in front of the driven element
[16:53] <gordonjcp> the Rob Flickenger design is a 1/4-wave radiator with no ground plane, in a cardboard tube, with a pair of metal discs about a half wavelength apart on either side of it
[16:54] <sbasuita> right
[16:54] <sbasuita> I'll probably just make a yagi
[16:55] <gordonjcp> sbasuita: for which frequency
[16:56] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, 434.075MHz
[16:56] <gordonjcp> sbasuita: incidentally the idea of the stopped waveguide part of the flickenger antenna was sound
[16:56] <gordonjcp> just sticking the washers in and using a cardboard tube were the fail points
[16:56] <gordonjcp> needs to be 85mm diameter and metal ;-)
[16:57] <gordonjcp> for 70cm, build either the k5oe handi-tenna (you'll need archive.org since aohell hometown shut down) or the WA5VJB Cheap Yagi design
[16:57] <gordonjcp> both work, and work well
[16:57] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, thanks. I was rather enjoying reading all the angry comments on the "this blog is shutting down" post - "WHERE IS MY HARD WORK?!?!"
[16:58] <gordonjcp> hahaha
[16:58] <gordonjcp> it was a bit of a cunty thing to do though
[16:59] <gordonjcp> I'm going to write up building a K5OE and stick it on my site, possibly this weekend
[17:00] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, not if I beat you to it
[17:00] <sbasuita> : P
[17:00] <sbasuita> how am I supposed to build with no pictures? : (
[17:00] <sbasuita> http://web.archive.org/web/20080118123405/http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=11624
[17:01] <gordonjcp> http://www.mydarc.de/df8gh/handitenna.htm
[17:02] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, thanks
[17:10] <sbasuita> http://www.fredspinner.com/W0FMS/CheapYagi/vjbcy.html
[17:10] <sbasuita> Are the measurements in the tables in inches or cm?
[17:10] <sbasuita> ah
[17:10] <sbasuita> inches
[17:10] <sbasuita> trust me to ignore the title and skip to the meaty bits ;)
[17:20] <jcoxon> hmmm interesting - my arduino doesn't like strcat
[17:21] <sbasuita> jcoxon, doesn't like?
[17:22] <jcoxon> i was strcat'ing the various componets of my parsed gps data into a single string
[17:22] <jcoxon> i'm probably exceeding some limit on string length
[17:23] <jcoxon> not a problem though - have got a better way of doing it now - so aren't going to look into it
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[17:29] <sbasuita> I guess it's not worth trying to recalculate length/spacing values for a yagi designed for 432.1Mhz to receive 434.075MHz?
[17:34] <rjharrison> Correct
[17:34] <rjharrison> It's not
[17:34] <rjharrison> It will work just fine
[17:36] Action: sbasuita fights back his perfectionist side
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[18:01] <sbasuita> http://www.fredspinner.com/W0FMS/CheapYagi/vjbcy.html . On the 902/903MHz antenna, why has he used a driven element that in addition bends down on one side and continues back towards the centre beam?
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[18:32] <gordonjcp> sbasuita: ah, that's just how the driven element works in these
[18:32] <sbasuita> gordonjcp, ok
[18:32] <gordonjcp> incidentally, cut it slightly long and trim it down to 434
[18:33] <gordonjcp> they're pretty narrow but you should me more-or-less okay
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[19:12] <jcoxon> hey G8KHW
[19:22] <sbasuita> jcoxon, does zeusbot delete its logs after a while?
[19:31] Action: shellevil is reading the highway code.
[19:31] <shellevil> Car theory test tomorrow.
[19:31] <shellevil> I like some of the theory test answers. 'You have had an argument, and are upset. Should you .... B) Take an alcoholic drink and calm down before driving.
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[19:33] <edmoore> evening all
[19:34] <edmoore> jcoxon: ping
[19:34] <shellevil> vening
[19:37] <DanielRichman> How does the distributed tracker treat invalid data? When the flight computer powers on, and starts the radio, but has no gps fix, there's nothing to go in the lat, lon and altitutde fields. If they're empty or full of rubbish, is the tracker ok with that?
[19:37] <edmoore> it just ignores anything that doesn't look right
[19:38] <DanielRichman> Good. Regexp style?
[19:38] <edmoore> however as of recently it didn't handle empty fields too well, iirc
[19:38] <edmoore> but it's in a constant state of dev so the best person to ask is rjharrisson when he comes on as the server is his responsibility
[19:40] <edmoore> basically it's easier to change the server than your embedded software
[19:42] <jcoxon> hello
[19:42] <DanielRichman> hehe. Because our code is relying on fixed width, I'm just gonna fill the gps-fields with hyphens
[19:42] <jcoxon> sbasuita, no they get moved to an archive you can search
[19:42] <shellevil> 000 works
[19:42] <jcoxon> edmoore, how can i help?
[19:42] <shellevil> oh
[19:43] <edmoore> jcoxon: gimme 3 mins sorry
[19:43] <jcoxon> np
[19:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yeh, why you filling with hyphens?
[19:44] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, fixed width variables. easier that way. Rather I'd fill with another char?
[19:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 0 is nice
[19:44] <sbasuita> ; )
[19:44] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, the server will ignore any dogey strings
[19:44] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, 0 terminates the string, silly
[19:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what?
[19:45] <jcoxon> actually i think it checks if the char are numbers
[19:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, messages_get_char return 0 when the telemetry string has finished
[19:45] <DanielRichman> to tell the calling function that it can stop transmitting
[19:45] <shellevil> whatdo you do about crossing the meridian?
[19:45] <jcoxon> so non-int will be ignored
[19:45] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so the code stops you from filling with zeros?
[19:45] <shellevil> or the equator
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[19:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yes, and filling with zeros is a silly idea anyway because we're sending ascii only really
[19:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, when i say '0', i mean ascii 0
[19:46] <sbasuita> in the context of irc
[19:46] <sbasuita> (which happens to be ascii_
[19:46] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no.
[19:46] <sbasuita> ; )
[19:46] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, because then we'll be at latitude 000000 and longitude 00000. That's bad.
[19:46] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, not really
[19:46] <DanielRichman> and the time will be midnight
[19:46] <DanielRichman> etc.
[19:47] <DanielRichman> and according to the altitude variable we'll be swimming at the equator. Its just a bad idea. If we have no real fix data, not even old fix data, don't let anything interpret it as a fix.
[19:47] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, leave it blank then
[19:47] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, spaces?
[19:47] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, question marks
[19:47] <sbasuita> ; )
[19:47] <sbasuita> i'm going to eat now
[19:47] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, question marks it is. Done.
[19:50] <jcoxon> as long as its not $'s i don't care
[19:51] <shellevil> 0,0 is off africa I think
[19:52] <jcoxon> just south of ghana
[19:53] <jcoxon> i know that cause often the tracker goes crazy and suggests the payload is there
[19:53] <edmoore> jcoxon: i keep getting emails about people wanting to start up in hab
[19:53] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:53] <DanielRichman> Does the distributed tracker require \r\n or just \n?
[19:53] <edmoore> basic questions about what you can use to control it, do you need permission, where do you get balloons
[19:54] <edmoore> was thinking it might be worth writing a 3 to 4 page guidette with pretty pictures answering all the basic questions
[19:54] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, at present its \n however i really want to implement a end character
[19:54] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, an end character? but then it would be difficult to tack custom data onto the end of the same string
[19:54] <jcoxon> as it'll help with searching for strings in between junk
[19:54] <DanielRichman> hmm
[19:54] <jcoxon> why? just stick the end char at teh end of the custom
[19:55] <jcoxon> then we know what data to upload
[19:55] <DanielRichman> Oh, I see what you mean
[19:56] <jcoxon> edmoore, its a good idea
[19:56] <jcoxon> we discussed this a couple of weeks ago but i can't remember the conclusion
[19:56] <jcoxon> it might have been asteriex as that allows for a checksum
[19:56] <edmoore> i don't think I was there
[19:57] <DanielRichman> ahh, checksum
[19:57] <jcoxon> oh this was to DanielRichman
[19:57] <jcoxon> sorry
[19:57] <DanielRichman> thanks for reminding me. Was considering adding a checksum
[19:57] <jcoxon> let me find the logs
[19:57] <jcoxon> don't implment anything in the next 10mins :-)
[19:57] <DanielRichman> What kind of checksum would you suggest? I've implemented a nmea-style checksum to check incoming gps data, but nothing on the outgoing
[19:58] <DanielRichman> checksum or parity... the choices are endless
[19:59] <jcoxon> at present whatever you chose we'll ignore it
[19:59] <jcoxon> haven't implemented anything yet
[19:59] <DanielRichman> yeah. But maybe by the time we launch it'll be implemented, so best to go with the general suggestion
[19:59] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:59] <jcoxon> perhaps
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[20:09] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, found it
[20:10] <jcoxon> so we were going to have checksum at the end
[20:10] <DanielRichman> yeah
[20:10] <jcoxon> or if you aren't implmenting one you use a null checksum
[20:10] <DanielRichman> what does a null checksum look like? and what format is the checksum
[20:11] <jcoxon> well actually its the * thats key
[20:11] <jcoxon> so the checksum is *XX
[20:11] <DanielRichman> same as the NMEA checksums?
[20:11] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:11] <DanielRichman> just xor each byte, ok.
[20:11] <jcoxon> and the client at present will look for $$ at the beginning and * at the end
[20:11] <DanielRichman> Just out of curiosity, is a null checksum then *00?
[20:11] <jcoxon> one day when implemented it'll check the checksum
[20:12] <jcoxon> i'm not actually sure
[20:12] <DanielRichman> ok. Doesn't matter ;)
[20:12] <jcoxon> no it doesn't
[20:12] <jcoxon> the checksum is for your own decoding
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[20:19] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, might be worth clearing up if the checksum is the xor between the $ and the * (including the second $), or between $$ and the asterisk. jcoxon?
[20:20] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, good point
[20:20] <DanielRichman> In nmea its everything excluding the first $, the last * and the checksum itself
[20:20] <DanielRichman> but now there are two $s :O
[20:20] <jcoxon> so the checksum lies outside the *
[20:21] <jcoxon> as in:
[20:21] <jcoxon> $$HALO,42,19:20:54,51.498,-0.0530,7.8*00
[20:21] <sbasuita> jcoxon, but would the xor'd data be "HALO,42,19:20:54,51.498,-0.0530,7.8" or "$HALO,42,19:20:54,51.498,-0.0530,7.8" ?
[20:22] <DanielRichman> or even, "$$HALO,42,19:20:54,51.498,-0.0530,7.8"
[20:22] <jcoxon> i'd xor after the $$
[20:22] <jcoxon> so all the data between $$ and *
[20:22] <DanielRichman> but not including
[20:22] <sbasuita> yep
[20:22] <jcoxon> no, they get chopped
[20:23] <sbasuita> that's the logical answer - just have to remove ambiguity if defining a standard ;)
[20:23] <jcoxon> well we're defining a standard - its more a draft
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[20:24] <rjharrison> Evening all
[20:24] <rjharrison> recovering from going for a swim :)
[20:24] <G8KHW> yo rjharrison
[20:25] <rjharrison> Hi steve
[20:25] <rjharrison> just pm'ed you
[20:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, kaboom. implemented.
[20:57] <natrium42> rjharrison, so, any launches this weekend? :)
[20:57] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[20:58] <natrium42> hi james
[21:00] Action: jcoxon might launch in the next few weeks
[21:04] <DanielRichman> Hmm. Surprisingly, I'm starting to like the DS18S20 temp sensors... 1wire isn't _that_ bad
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[21:07] <shellevil> 18b20++
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[22:38] <Laurenceb> hello
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[23:45] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=268
[23:45] <Laurenceb> "by henry hallam"
[23:46] <Laurenceb> nice one hallam :P
[23:47] <Laurenceb> anyone here used arm7 ?
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[23:56] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[23:56] <Laurenceb> hows the exams going?
[23:56] <edmoore> hi
[23:56] <edmoore> not bad
[23:56] <Laurenceb> great stuff
[23:56] <edmoore> got one on digital logic tomorrow
[23:57] <edmoore> my least favourite module
[23:57] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking of getting an LPC board from sparkfun
[23:57] <edmoore> too much transistor physics, not enough digital logic
[23:57] <Laurenceb> what math lib do you use?
[23:58] <Laurenceb> transistor physics is mind bending sometimeas
[00:00] --- Thu Apr 23 2009