highaltitude.log.20090419

[00:00] <DanielRichman> You could have a small linux box running a modified socks proxy or something... get the socks proxy to go into your radio modules via serial or something, and have all the people who want internet on a switch
[00:00] <Laurenceb> if your transmitting you might not need to use buffering and interrupts
[00:00] <Laurenceb> yeah maybe
[00:01] <Laurenceb> I worked out a nice way to doing it using tun a while back
[00:01] <Laurenceb> but its going to lead to a lot of overheads
[00:01] <Laurenceb> still IP over HAB would be a really awsome demonstration
[00:01] <DanielRichman> What kind of data rate could you expect to get over the air?
[00:02] <Laurenceb> a few hundered bits/sec
[00:02] <Laurenceb> the transceivers are 1.2Kbps but its shared out among users with TDMA and theres FEC on the packets
[00:03] <DanielRichman> mmm. You could have about 4 units, on different frequencies, and transmit in paralell
[00:04] <Laurenceb> a single chipcon IC can only run on one frequency at a time
[00:05] <Laurenceb> I plan to use TDMA, to the hab sends out a scedule for the next frame, along with any downlink info, then ground stations uplink in their alotted slot
[00:05] <Laurenceb> theres a slot of the end for any new stations to join
[00:06] <Laurenceb> some of the ground stations have internet acess and can forward packets to a coordination server
[00:06] GeekShado_ (i=Antoine@9.169.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) left irc: Connection timed out
[00:07] <DanielRichman> So are you going to have radio on something that is connected to the internet, then many radios on internet-wanting clients?
[00:07] <DanielRichman> or all clients on a LAN then to a 'gateway' with a radio
[00:07] <Laurenceb> the second
[00:08] <DanielRichman> How much will the radio system cost? Couldn't you just all share a 3G phone-modem (Although the radio system will be so much cooler)
[00:08] <Laurenceb> you cant get phone at altitiude
[00:09] <Laurenceb> chipcon modules cost $45 from sparkfun
[00:10] <Laurenceb> AXSEM make better transceiver ICs but I cant find any good modules
[00:10] <DanielRichman> Are you going to have the users authenticate to the balloon?
[00:10] <Laurenceb> no
[00:11] <DanielRichman> and encrypt? It's a bit of a problem if everyone's NickServ passwords fly around for anyone to peek at
[00:11] Action: natrium sets up his pan/tilt webcam
[00:11] <Laurenceb> hehe hadnt thought of that one
[00:11] <DanielRichman> ;)
[00:12] <Laurenceb> well with the plaintext chat system there would only be one user logged on
[00:12] <Laurenceb> the server
[00:12] <Laurenceb> and itd just act as a gateway to the radio network e.g "user blah said blah"
[00:13] <DanielRichman> You could have multiple command-line-ircs running on the server, then give each one a different user
[00:13] <Laurenceb> yeah
[00:13] <DanielRichman> then if they wanted to take the risk, they could always type /msg NickServ.... themselves
[00:13] <DanielRichman> or just not bother authenticating
[00:13] <Laurenceb> or connect to /dev/tun
[00:14] <Laurenceb> and send everything through the network from there
[00:14] <DanielRichman> I wonder how many bytes a SSL handshake is...
[00:15] <Laurenceb> if your server connects via ethernet, you can inject ethernet packets using /dev/tap
[00:16] <Laurenceb> so you can emulate a lan using your radio network
[00:17] <Laurenceb> however atm I'm not even 100% sure if the sparkfun modules will work on a hab
[00:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=4&topic=tap
[00:28] <Laurenceb> cya
[00:28] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-152-36-189.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
[00:34] GeekShadow (i=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: "The cake is a lie !"
[00:37] DanielRichman (n=DanielRi@78.149.178.255) left irc: "Leaving"
[00:37] GeekShadow (i=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[00:43] <natrium> whoa, i am picking up somebody in croatia
[00:44] <natrium> 9A3VM
[00:44] natrium42 (n=natrium4@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[01:06] hallam (i=836fc8c8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-23421bad0389f85c) joined #highaltitude.
[01:27] <jcoxon> hey natrium
[01:28] <natrium> hi
[01:28] <natrium> i don't hear anything yet
[01:28] <natrium> jcoxon, which dlclient do i use?
[01:28] <natrium> the latest one sets frequency to 400+MHz
[01:29] <jcoxon> natrium, i haven't actually updated the dlclient for this mission
[01:29] <jcoxon> as soon as i can see a string i will make a new verison
[01:29] <jcoxon> yeah the one you've got is for normal 434 missions
[01:29] <jcoxon> just flip the freq back
[01:29] <natrium> ah ok
[01:29] <natrium> they specified the string here --> http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/ARHABlaunchannouncements.htm
[01:29] <jcoxon> what band were you picking up 9A3VM?
[01:29] <jcoxon> yeah but that has spaces
[01:30] <jcoxon> and i don't believe thats they way tehy plan to do it
[01:30] <natrium> 7019 something
[01:30] <natrium> ok
[01:30] <natrium> let's get a string first
[01:30] <jcoxon> i've got it all in functions
[01:31] <jcoxon> so it will take me 5 mins to write something that should work
[01:31] <jcoxon> the server end however might not work as well
[01:31] <jcoxon> as rjharrison is away
[01:31] <jcoxon> ooooo aprs is online
[01:32] <hallam> Hi
[01:32] <hallam> is something flying?
[01:32] <jcoxon> pbh-9 zp is about to launch
[01:32] <natrium> jcoxon, yeah, but it's on the ground still
[01:33] <hallam> is that the guys who went into canada accidentally last month?
[01:33] <jcoxon> yeah
[01:33] <hallam> objectives?
[01:33] <jcoxon> 50 hour endurance
[01:33] <jcoxon> http://twitter.com/PBH3
[01:33] <jcoxon> natrium, i'd start listening into the freqs though
[01:33] <hallam> cool. no recovery planned?
[01:33] <jcoxon> as HF is weird about propergation
[01:34] <natrium> i am listening at 7104
[01:34] <jcoxon> don't think so
[01:35] <natrium> ok, some weird transmission
[01:35] <natrium> 8 bands
[01:35] <natrium> weird
[01:35] <jcoxon> okay natrium - first copy of dlclientHF
[01:36] <natrium> is it going to switch between freqs automagically?
[01:36] <jcoxon> yeah
[01:36] <jcoxon> just testing it
[01:38] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=dlistening:client:radioclienthf
[01:38] <jcoxon> i'll keep updating it as we go along
[01:38] <natrium> ok, cool
[01:39] <jcoxon> oh crap its the wrong way round
[01:40] <jcoxon> new code
[01:45] <jcoxon> natrium, you running the new code?
[01:45] <jcoxon> did it change freqs just now?
[01:46] <natrium> doing it manually atm
[01:47] <natrium> there are some really weird digital modes
[01:47] <natrium> on those two freqs
[01:48] <natrium> jcoxon, ok, running the script
[01:50] <natrium> jcoxon, ok, it switched to 30m
[01:50] <jcoxon> great
[01:51] <natrium> but
[01:51] <jcoxon> but...
[01:51] <natrium> i would switch a min in advance
[01:51] <natrium> or do you think they will send continuously for 5 mins?
[01:52] <jcoxon> i'm not sure
[01:52] <jcoxon> i agree with the min in advance
[01:52] <jcoxon> just making the changes
[01:52] <natrium> ok
[01:52] <jcoxon> also i've added teh status upload bit so that the those who run the client appear on the logger
[01:52] <natrium> what program did you recommend again to stream the audio online?
[01:53] <jcoxon> ummm it was on mac
[01:53] <jcoxon> you are on ubuntu aren't you
[01:53] <natrium> yeah
[01:54] <jcoxon> then i don't know
[01:58] <natrium> jcoxon, did you get some sleep yet?
[02:00] <natrium> because i kinda promised to go to the movies with my brothers
[02:00] <natrium> should be back in 3 hours
[02:00] <natrium> sorry
[02:00] <jcoxon> np
[02:00] <jcoxon> no sleep yet
[02:01] <jcoxon> but i'm considering it
[02:01] <natrium> 5GMT i will be back
[02:01] <jcoxon> i have a feeling nothing will move till then
[02:01] <natrium> yeah
[02:01] <jcoxon> okay i'll probably get up at 7GMT
[02:01] <natrium> just get some sleep
[02:01] <natrium> the flight will take a while anway
[02:01] <natrium> k, i will see you then
[02:01] <natrium> later
[02:01] <jcoxon> will fix this bug
[02:01] <jcoxon> and upload new code
[02:01] <natrium> ok, great
[02:01] <jcoxon> so when you come back grab it
[02:01] <natrium> yep, i will
[02:03] <jcoxon> cya
[02:04] <jcoxon> anyone going to be up over night?
[02:05] <hallam> I will, but not paying much attention, tripos to learn
[02:06] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: "Leaving"
[02:08] <jcoxon> hallam, was thinking of leaving my vnc server on
[02:08] <hallam> I won't use it
[02:09] <jcoxon> okay then no worries
[02:09] <hallam> get some sleep :)
[02:11] <jcoxon> hehe
[02:11] <jcoxon> soon
[02:27] <jcoxon> okay its up
[02:28] <jcoxon> night all
[03:12] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:12] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[03:13] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:13] GeekShadow (i=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: "The cake is a lie !"
[05:38] hallam (i=836fc8c8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-23421bad0389f85c) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[07:49] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[07:52] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:52] <natrium> yo
[07:53] <jcoxon> anything natrium
[07:53] <jcoxon> only 30m is working
[07:53] <natrium> nope :/
[07:53] <natrium> i couldn't hear anything
[07:54] <natrium> it might go rogue again
[07:58] <jcoxon> compensating for drift?
[07:59] <natrium> how?
[07:59] <jcoxon> as in did you tune around?
[07:59] <natrium> a bit
[07:59] <natrium> and they did post frequency on twitter too
[08:00] <jcoxon> oh cool
[08:00] <jcoxon> yeah i see
[08:00] <natrium> perhaps my antenna is teh sux
[08:00] <natrium> are you going to try listening too?
[08:01] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:01] <jcoxon> i'm listening now
[08:01] <natrium> k
[08:01] <natrium> perhaps you will have more luck? :)
[08:01] <jcoxon> propergation is weird
[08:01] <jcoxon> depends if the band is open
[08:07] <jcoxon> natrium, unfortunately this is a bit of a waiting game
[08:07] <natrium> yeah
[08:07] <natrium> i will leave it on overnight
[08:08] <jcoxon> it shows a couple of important issues with theses flights
[08:08] <jcoxon> its damn annoying searching for a signal that only comes occasionally
[08:09] <natrium> yes
[08:13] <jcoxon> it seems they have taking off the autoballast dropping system i think
[08:15] <natrium> they responded to an email i sent --> "That's correct, we are able to get up and downlinks over 30 meter. However all of our power commands are routed through the master board that is currently unresponsive."
[08:16] <jcoxon> oh
[08:16] <jcoxon> so its a floating transmitter
[08:16] <jcoxon> it could last until tonight
[08:17] <natrium> yes, since the sun should heat it up
[08:17] <jcoxon> maybe we should really be listening to 40m
[08:17] <natrium> so no ballast drops required
[08:17] <natrium> why 40m?
[08:17] <jcoxon> well the reckon the master board is down
[08:17] <jcoxon> but i might perk up
[08:17] <jcoxon> it*
[08:18] <natrium> hopefully they will tweet that :)
[08:19] <natrium> i am listening on 30m only now
[08:19] <jcoxon> i've kept my script running
[08:19] <jcoxon> as they are only transmitting on 30m every 10m
[08:19] <natrium> yah
[08:20] <natrium> i found a small bug on date rollover
[08:20] <jcoxon> oh, fix?
[08:20] <natrium> if you keep fldigi open through a date rollover but restart the script, it looks for a log file that doesn't exist
[08:21] <jcoxon> thats a good point
[08:21] <jcoxon> will need to fix that
[08:21] <natrium> perhaps just grabbing the latest file would do the trick
[08:22] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:23] <natrium> also, it keeps setting the frequency of the radio each 30 seconds
[08:23] <jcoxon> hehe some rtty
[08:23] <natrium> so you can't easily tune within the 5 mins :P
[08:23] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[08:23] <jcoxon> yeah will fix that as well
[08:23] <natrium> yeah, i heard some weird digital modes
[08:24] <natrium> with 8 bands of signal
[08:24] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[08:24] <natrium> but they are gone now
[08:24] <natrium> but i do keep hearing things in the white noise that are not there :/
[08:24] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:24] <jcoxon> listening to white noise makes you go mad
[08:25] <natrium> yes :)
[08:28] <jcoxon> natrium, a good way of checking your antenna is to tune into WWV
[08:28] <jcoxon> http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwv.html
[08:29] <natrium> 10MHz?
[08:29] <natrium> i will try
[08:30] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:30] <natrium> how often should i hear something?
[08:32] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[08:32] <jcoxon> hmmm my laptop is interfering slightly with my reception
[08:33] <natrium> i hear the 5MHz signal
[08:33] <natrium> but not the 10 or 15MHz ones
[08:36] <jcoxon> what sort of signal is it?
[08:40] <natrium> voice and some tones and ticking each second
[08:41] <jcoxon> i get nothing
[08:41] <jcoxon> guess the bands are closed
[08:41] <natrium> yep
[08:42] <natrium> should at sunlight
[08:42] <natrium> should try*
[08:42] <jcoxon> tis sunny here
[08:42] <jcoxon> :-)
[08:42] <natrium> hehe
[08:45] mib_cv0373 (i=57769cee@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-476d2f47de458420) joined #highaltitude.
[08:48] <jcoxon> natrium, tune to 10.127
[08:48] <jcoxon> can you hear the CW?
[08:48] <natrium> nope
[08:49] <jcoxon> hi mib_cv0373
[08:49] mib_cv0373 (i=57769cee@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-476d2f47de458420) left irc: Client Quit
[08:49] <jcoxon> oops
[08:49] <natrium> lol
[08:56] <natrium> jcoxon, hear anything on 10.105?
[08:57] <natrium> i hear somebody from cuba
[08:57] <natrium> CO8LY
[08:57] <jcoxon> no nothing
[08:58] <natrium> k...
[08:58] <jcoxon> i can't hear any WWV stations
[08:58] <jcoxon> so i think trans-a stuff is down
[08:58] <jcoxon> let me pull up websdr
[09:02] <jcoxon> damn websdr doesn't do 30m
[09:10] <natrium> jcoxon, what about http://www.globaltuners.com ?
[09:11] <natrium> oh, nice
[09:11] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[09:11] <natrium> i met bill brown on one of them :)
[09:11] <natrium> and he's listening to 10.146.800
[09:12] <jcoxon> ooo we should get him
[09:12] <jcoxon> on here
[09:12] <natrium> http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/vk4fsgw.php?receiver=58
[09:12] <natrium> do you have an account?
[09:12] <jcoxon> no
[09:12] <natrium> get one, this site rulz
[09:15] <jcoxon> natrium, am waiting for approval
[09:15] <natrium> oh, okay
[09:15] <natrium> i remember it being quick
[09:18] <natrium> bill is not reponding, perhaps he left it on overnight
[09:18] <natrium> *responding
[09:18] <jcoxon> its quite late:-p
[09:19] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3454452173/
[09:19] <natrium> oh, he responded
[09:19] <natrium> he says that he hears transmissions
[09:19] <jcoxon> oh great
[09:19] <jcoxon> where?
[09:20] <natrium> Northwest Connecticut
[09:21] <natrium> i can hear it
[09:21] <jcoxon> on your radio?
[09:21] <natrium> globaltuners
[09:21] <natrium> i decoded it as "N2XE 20620N40898 W73149386 98"
[09:22] <jcoxon> sweet
[09:22] <jcoxon> in fldigi?
[09:22] <jcoxon> what freq?
[09:23] <natrium> [4:22 AM] [WB8ELK] the last part is the battery voltage: 3.86 volts
[09:23] <natrium> [4:22 AM] [WB8ELK] and the 98 is the ballast sensor
[09:23] <natrium> 10.146.800
[09:24] <jcoxon> urgh they put spaces in
[09:24] <natrium> hehe
[09:24] <jcoxon> did you decode with fldigi?
[09:25] <natrium> yep
[09:25] <natrium> via microphone XD
[09:25] <jcoxon> oooo so i could rig the client to work
[09:25] <natrium> yep
[09:25] <jcoxon> and we could start plotting
[09:26] <jcoxon> okay
[09:26] <jcoxon> natrium, is it only transmitting once?
[09:26] <natrium> yep
[09:27] <jcoxon> shall i turn off freq switching
[09:27] <jcoxon> yeah might as well
[09:27] <jcoxon> are you set up to log?
[09:27] <jcoxon> files->logs->log all rx/tx
[09:29] <natrium> [4:29 AM] [WB8ELK] I was going to send up a flight tonight to race along with theirs
[09:29] <natrium> [4:29 AM] [natrium42] haha :)
[09:29] <natrium> [4:29 AM] [WB8ELK] but bad weather so will probably try it next weekend
[09:30] <jcoxon> does he want us to do the DL system?
[09:31] <natrium> no HF though, i just asked
[09:31] <natrium> 144.39MHz
[09:31] <jcoxon> oh right
[09:31] <jcoxon> ummm could you send me a bit of your log file?
[09:31] <jcoxon> so i can see how it appears
[09:31] <natrium> ok, just got another TX
[09:31] <natrium> "VVV N2XE 20385 N40906 W73082 385 97"
[09:32] <jcoxon> does it new line?
[09:32] <natrium> how does a new line look in fldigi?
[09:32] <natrium> i see a space
[09:33] <natrium> i.e. "VVV N2XE 20385 N40906 W73082 385 97 "
[09:33] <jcoxon> okay
[09:33] <jcoxon> could you run my new code
[09:33] <natrium> sure
[09:33] <jcoxon> hopefully it'll get uploaded raw
[09:33] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=dlistening:client:radioclienthf
[09:34] <natrium> did you change something from before?
[09:34] <jcoxon> yeah i turned off freq changing
[09:34] <jcoxon> and also fixed the freq change every 30secs
[09:35] <jcoxon> but thats now turned off
[09:36] <jcoxon> okay i'm in to global tuners
[09:36] <natrium> yay
[09:36] <jcoxon> where next
[09:36] <natrium> go to map of receivers
[09:37] <natrium> select the closest to balloon
[09:37] <natrium> Northwest Connecticut
[09:37] <natrium> that's where we are
[09:37] <natrium> operator is tkruczek
[09:38] <natrium> there you are
[09:38] <natrium> :)
[09:38] <natrium> now select "Start High Quality Audio" in dropdown above radio
[09:39] <jcoxon> now to loop it back into fldigi
[09:39] Action: jcoxon powers up soundflower
[09:39] <natrium> perhaps you should run the dlclient then
[09:39] <natrium> as i am going to bed soonish
[09:40] <jcoxon> yeah i will
[09:40] <natrium> ok, excellent
[09:40] <jcoxon> when the band opens though would be good to get data
[09:40] <jcoxon> can you leave vnc up?
[09:40] <natrium> it's not set up atm :S
[09:42] <natrium> VVV N2XE 20144 N40923 W73002 384 97
[09:42] <jcoxon> ubuntu?
[09:42] <natrium> yeah
[09:42] <jcoxon> its a simple turn on
[09:42] <jcoxon> i think
[09:42] <jcoxon> or maybe it wasn't
[09:42] <jcoxon> oh don't worry
[09:42] <jcoxon> i'll pester some others :-)
[09:42] <natrium> XD
[09:44] <natrium> is it in services?
[09:44] <jcoxon> ummm i can't remember off the top of my head
[09:44] <jcoxon> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNC
[09:46] <natrium> ah, found it
[09:47] <jcoxon> okay got to restart
[09:48] <jcoxon> back in 1 minute
[09:48] <natrium> k
[09:49] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@86.154.32.159) left irc: "Leaving"
[09:50] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[09:52] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@86.154.32.159) joined #highaltitude.
[09:52] <natrium> VVV N2XE 19820 N40924 W72935 383 97
[09:52] <jcoxon> back
[09:52] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:53] <natrium> i will set up remote control of my radio later, since you would be able to hear audio over vnc anyway
[09:53] <natrium> i will just leave globaltuners & fldigi on
[09:53] <jcoxon> oh okay
[09:53] <jcoxon> can you run the client
[09:53] <natrium> should be able to catch some transmissions tomorrow hopefully
[09:54] <natrium> well, dunno if there's a point if i can't control the drift
[09:54] <natrium> could you set up your dlclient to work from globaltuners?
[09:54] <jcoxon> yeah thats what i'm working on
[09:55] <jcoxon> i can do that here though
[09:55] <natrium> kk
[09:55] <jcoxon> don't really need you 'puter
[09:55] <natrium> it's 5 am already, whoa
[09:55] <jcoxon> night
[09:55] hallam (i=836fc8c8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-675154df9e63df0b) joined #highaltitude.
[09:55] <natrium> g'nite
[09:56] <natrium> hopefully more luck with HF rig tomorrow
[09:56] <natrium> :)
[09:56] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:56] <jcoxon> i'll keep working
[09:57] Action: natrium Zzz
[10:02] <jcoxon> okay have rigged globaltuners, soundflower and fldigi
[10:54] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[11:32] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-152-36-189.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:32] <Laurenceb> hi
[11:32] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[11:32] <Laurenceb> whats happening with the atlantic halo?
[11:33] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[11:33] <jcoxon> ummm progress is slow
[11:33] <jcoxon> but i'm tracking the pbh zp
[11:33] <Laurenceb> ah right
[11:33] <Laurenceb> where is it?
[11:33] <sbasuita> What's the callsign?
[11:34] <jcoxon> one sec
[11:36] <jcoxon> KChttp://twitter.com/pbh3
[11:36] <jcoxon> oops
[11:36] <jcoxon> http://twitter.com/pbh3
[11:36] <Laurenceb> is it on aprs?
[11:36] <jcoxon> yes
[11:36] <jcoxon> and 30m
[11:37] <jcoxon> someone just stole my internet radio receiver
[11:38] <Laurenceb> shouldnt it be on the aprs site?
[11:38] <jcoxon> yes
[11:38] <jcoxon> its there
[11:39] <jcoxon> KC2TUA-8
[11:41] <sbasuita> jcoxon, is the online tracker working then?
[11:41] <jcoxon> aprs is
[11:41] <jcoxon> spacenear.us is nearly
[11:41] <jcoxon> though i've lost the signal now
[11:41] <Laurenceb> http://aprs.fi/?call=%20KC2TUA-8&mt=m&z=11&timerange=3600
[11:42] <Laurenceb> going quite slow atm
[11:42] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:43] <jcoxon> its not a trans attempt
[11:43] <Laurenceb> oh ok
[11:43] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) left irc:
[11:43] <Laurenceb> do you have a 434MHz yagi?
[11:44] <jcoxon> no
[11:44] <Laurenceb> or just a moxon
[11:44] <jcoxon> moxon
[11:44] <Laurenceb> ok
[11:45] <Laurenceb> I m still not 100% sure the sparkfun transceivers will work
[11:45] <Laurenceb> it looks like they must use afc, but how afc will work with a network I'm not sure
[11:46] <jcoxon> okay spacenear.us is online
[11:49] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:49] <edmoore> jcoxon: just got wb8elk email
[11:49] <edmoore> what's happening?
[11:49] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:49] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore, are you interested in 434MHz transceivers?
[11:50] <Laurenceb> the sparkfun ones use chipcon ICs with -118dBm sensitivity
[11:50] <Laurenceb> and it looks like they use AFC, so should work on a HAB
[11:50] <Laurenceb> I'm going to order some
[11:50] <edmoore> not interested until exams are over
[11:50] <edmoore> am interested in the answer to my original q
[11:51] <Laurenceb> revision :-/
[11:51] <Laurenceb> good luck
[11:51] <jcoxon> damn it
[11:51] <Laurenceb> http://aprs.fi/?call=%20KC2TUA-8&mt=m&z=11&timerange=3600 is one thing thats happening...
[11:51] <jcoxon> edmoore, okay the zp is flying
[11:52] <jcoxon> its on aprs still
[11:52] <edmoore> whose?
[11:52] <jcoxon> but i've also got spacenear.us working
[11:52] <jcoxon> pbh-9
[11:52] <jcoxon> i'm picking it up on globaltuners
[11:52] <jcoxon> we should start getting it in the UK soon
[11:52] <Laurenceb> the range is insane
[11:52] <jcoxon> the next transmission i'll get
[11:53] <jcoxon> somebody logged on and tuned without asking
[11:53] <jcoxon> took me ages to get it back
[11:53] <Laurenceb> is it 500mw?
[11:53] <edmoore> heck of a speed!?
[11:54] <jcoxon> oh thats not speed
[11:54] <Laurenceb> hehe
[11:54] <jcoxon> its battery voltage and ballast tank
[11:54] <Laurenceb> it looks like its in the stratosphere
[11:54] <sbasuita> So, any americans using spacenear.us yet?
[11:54] <jcoxon> no
[11:54] <jcoxon> as rob and i fixed it 2 mins ago
[11:54] <jcoxon> and still need to test it
[11:55] <Laurenceb> aprs.fi is pretty hard to beat
[11:55] <jcoxon> until we lose range of 2m
[11:55] <jcoxon> then aprs won't be helpful
[11:55] <edmoore> this is cornell?
[11:56] <edmoore> oh it's the lockheed martin "amateurs"
[11:56] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:56] <jcoxon> there payload is actually broken
[11:57] <jcoxon> just the 30m transmitter is working
[11:57] <Laurenceb> that sucks
[11:57] <jcoxon> so they can't drop ballast
[11:57] <Laurenceb> 30m=144MHz?
[11:57] <jcoxon> 30m = 10.146MHz
[11:58] Action: Laurenceb is confused
[11:58] <Laurenceb> so its not sending aprs?
[11:58] <jcoxon> 2m = 144Mhz
[11:58] <jcoxon> it is
[11:58] <jcoxon> thats also working
[11:58] <Laurenceb> ah right got you
[11:58] <jcoxon> but 40m was their main system
[11:58] <edmoore> 3e8/30
[11:58] <jcoxon> and thats dead along with the main flight computer
[11:58] <jcoxon> 2 mins
[11:58] <jcoxon> Bill Brown might launch next weekend
[11:58] <Laurenceb> the aprs range is pretty impressive
[11:59] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:59] <jcoxon> good tx power
[11:59] <Laurenceb> any idea what power it is?
[11:59] <jcoxon> no
[12:00] DanielRichman (n=DanielRi@78.149.178.255) joined #highaltitude.
[12:01] <jcoxon> got it
[12:01] <jcoxon> phew
[12:02] <Laurenceb> nice
[12:02] <Laurenceb> hmm http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/719b-cushcraft-70cm-yagi-p-1983.html
[12:02] <Laurenceb> for when you want to overdose on antenna
[12:03] <jcoxon> damn it
[12:03] <jcoxon> one sec
[12:03] <Laurenceb> oh wow theres aprs weather stations
[12:03] <Laurenceb> thats handy
[12:03] <jcoxon> thats better
[12:04] <Laurenceb> is the aprs updating?
[12:05] <Laurenceb> nvm it is
[12:10] <Laurenceb> cya all
[12:10] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-152-36-189.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
[12:14] <jcoxon> damn a dodgey char
[12:15] <jcoxon> having it transmit once every 10mins is mindnumbingly annoying
[12:24] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[12:26] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-054.res.warwick.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:45] mib_ds2s00 (i=4aeb400c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9ac14e3f1ccc59bc) joined #highaltitude.
[12:47] <jcoxon> missed a few bits of data just then
[12:47] <jcoxon> so annoying safari crashed mid decode
[12:49] <mib_ds2s00> hello
[12:49] <jcoxon> hi
[12:51] <mib_ds2s00> 40M is opening up for me
[12:51] <mib_ds2s00> you are a mac enthusiast?
[12:51] <jcoxon> yeah
[12:51] <jcoxon> well i have a mac
[12:51] <mib_ds2s00> nice
[12:52] <mib_ds2s00> yeah, that might not make you an 'enthusiast'
[12:52] <mib_ds2s00> a user/owner, anyway
[12:52] <mib_ds2s00> i'm very linuxish
[12:52] <jcoxon> phew managed to get another point
[12:53] <jcoxon> mib_ds2s00, even in the chat box if you use /nick you can change you name to something that isn't random
[12:54] Nick change: mib_ds2s00 -> somethingThatIsn
[12:55] <jcoxon> :-)
[12:55] <jcoxon> that said i use quite a bit of linux
[12:56] <jcoxon> somethingThatIsn, how about 30m for you?
[12:56] hallam (i=836fc8c8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-675154df9e63df0b) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[12:56] <jcoxon> i feel a bit guilty hogging this internet radio
[12:58] <DanielRichman> If you are going to transmit more than one byte in rtty, do you still have to start-bit bit bit bi... stop-bit start-bit (the second byte) ?
[12:59] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i think so
[12:59] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, because the time between bytes can be as long as possible
[12:59] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so you need another start, and of course stop
[12:59] <DanielRichman> hmm, okey.
[12:59] <DanielRichman> r7 is on its way.
[13:02] rjharrison (n=rharriso@host217-43-77-9.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:05] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:06] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-054.res.warwick.ac.uk) left irc:
[13:14] rjharrison (n=rharriso@host217-43-77-9.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[13:14] rjharrison (n=rharriso@host217-43-77-9.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:14] Action: jcoxon is searching for a free online radio
[13:27] somethingThatIsn (i=4aeb400c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9ac14e3f1ccc59bc) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[13:29] GeekShadow (n=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[13:41] hallam (i=836fc8c8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8c72495be46724d7) joined #highaltitude.
[13:42] rjharrison (n=rharriso@host217-43-77-9.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[13:43] <jcoxon> ooo got another point
[13:57] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:57] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!n=jcoxon@86.154.32.159: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk . PBH-9 ZP launch 9pm EST from US, HF 40m and 30m + APRS - 50hr duration - http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[14:20] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-054.res.warwick.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:38] mc- (n=zsirc@cpc3-glfd1-0-0-cust439.glfd.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:42] Ikarus (n=ikarus@i227209.upc-i.chello.nl) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[14:47] Ikarus (n=ikarus@i227209.upc-i.chello.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[15:12] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@86.154.32.159) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[15:12] mc- (n=zsirc@cpc3-glfd1-0-0-cust439.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[15:28] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-154-32-159.range86-154.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:55] <jcoxon> ping natrium
[16:08] bfirsh_ (n=ben@137.205.210.26) joined #highaltitude.
[16:09] bfirsh_ (n=ben@137.205.210.26) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[16:11] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-054.res.warwick.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[16:29] hallam (i=836fc8c8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8c72495be46724d7) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[16:36] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[16:36] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:55] SteamAtom (n=steamato@32.134.252.87) joined #highaltitude.
[16:56] <jcoxon> hey SteamAtom
[16:57] <SteamAtom> Hi jcoxon, pbh9 is looking good
[16:57] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:57] <jcoxon> unfortunately their ballast system is broken
[16:57] <SteamAtom> They must have a gigantic balloon to be at 70,000
[16:57] <jcoxon> so i'm not sure they'll survive the night
[16:57] <SteamAtom> Aw that sucks
[16:57] <jcoxon> i read somewhere 10k
[16:58] <SteamAtom> Did you see the weight anywhere?
[16:58] <jcoxon> no, they don't reveal very much info
[16:58] <SteamAtom> 10000 Cu ft or meters?
[16:59] <jcoxon> spend the morning tracking it on HF with WB8ELK
[16:59] <jcoxon> spent*
[16:59] <jcoxon> SteamAtom, i'm not sure, just remember reading that number somewhere
[16:59] <SteamAtom> Cool
[16:59] <jcoxon> trying to find a radio to listen in with
[17:00] <SteamAtom> that's got to be tough to launch either way
[17:00] <SteamAtom> Yeah, I don't have an hf rig set up these days either
[17:00] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:00] <jcoxon> mine is setup but the way the ant is orientated it gets europe a lot better
[17:01] <SteamAtom> Did they only have ground triggered ballast?
[17:02] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCD6D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:02] <jcoxon> yes
[17:02] <jcoxon> which is odd as i think they had auto controlled last time
[17:02] <jcoxon> iirc
[17:03] <jcoxon> WB8ELK might launch next weekend
[17:04] <jcoxon> its very annoying the way that they broadcast 1 string every 10minutes
[17:04] <SteamAtom> Well, the software is tough to perfect, we wanted ti really get our hands on the trigger too, to record what works best
[17:04] <jcoxon> makes it hard to tune to
[17:04] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCD6D.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Client Quit
[17:04] <SteamAtom> Yeah, that's why we transmitted a morse char every min
[17:05] <SteamAtom> And the morse char can give some status info too
[17:05] <jcoxon> yes
[17:05] <SteamAtom> Breakfast is here, I'll be around
[17:05] <jcoxon> i remember that
[17:05] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:07] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCD6D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:15] <SteamAtom> Nice that they have apes, but that makes it an expensive payload to lose
[17:16] <SteamAtom> Ah I love iPhone autocorrect, I meant APRS
[17:17] <jcoxon> hehe - its great having Apes to run things for you
[17:18] <SteamAtom> Or is someone manually entering their position to aprs?
[17:18] <jcoxon> no they have aprs
[17:18] <SteamAtom> Haha
[17:18] <jcoxon> it got them in trouble last time apparently as they were 'spamming' the aprs network
[17:24] <SteamAtom> Wrong digi string?
[17:27] <jcoxon> i'm not too familiar with the system but i think it was something to do with multinetwork
[17:27] <jcoxon> or something
[17:27] <jcoxon> right back on to the good radio with WB8ELK
[17:28] <SteamAtom> Nice
[17:28] <jcoxon> so hopefully will be able to test the client more
[17:28] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[17:31] <SteamAtom> Looks like aprs will be dropping soon
[17:31] <jcoxon> got it
[17:31] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:31] <SteamAtom> Nice tracker
[17:31] <SteamAtom> Are you auto decoding?
[17:33] <jcoxon> yup
[17:33] <jcoxon> ummm small issue with data not being accepted
[17:33] <jcoxon> but apart from that its auto - i'm just babysitting it
[17:34] <jcoxon> raw data is here: http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[17:36] <SteamAtom> Nice, is that a standard format packet, or can you change input formats easily
[17:36] <jcoxon> we can change easily however we have 'UKHAS Standard'
[17:37] <jcoxon> which most people in the UK conform to - makes it alot easier to track
[17:37] <jcoxon> and status messages are sent every 15mins
[17:37] <jcoxon> so we keep track of who is listening: http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/loggers.php
[17:38] <SteamAtom> Yes that's nice
[17:38] <SteamAtom> Is it really 405km/h?
[17:39] <SteamAtom> Nice I'd like to get set up for you guys sometime
[17:39] <jcoxon> no
[17:39] <jcoxon> its battery
[17:39] <jcoxon> and the other is ballast
[17:39] <jcoxon> i've rather hacked this all up
[17:39] <jcoxon> it usually decodes rtty in nice strings with only small gaps in between the strings
[17:39] <jcoxon> which makes life much easier
[17:40] <SteamAtom> Haha yeah
[17:40] <SteamAtom> Ok got to go for a while, be back later though
[17:41] <jcoxon> cya
[17:43] SteamAtom (n=steamato@32.134.252.87) left irc: "Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"
[17:52] <jcoxon> fixed :-D
[18:02] GeekShadow (n=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
[18:17] jiffe97 (n=jiffe2@209.159.247.189) joined #highaltitude.
[18:24] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[18:28] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCD6D.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[18:33] jiffe88 (n=jiffe2@209.159.247.189) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[18:56] <jcoxon> ping natrium
[18:59] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[19:19] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:26] <natrium> yo
[19:26] <natrium> jcoxon, what's the news?
[19:28] <jcoxon> ooooo still flying
[19:28] <jcoxon> wb8elk and i are still tracking on globaltuners
[19:28] <jcoxon> was wondering if you could pick it up?
[19:30] <jcoxon> 10.1468 CW 1, 11, 21, 31, 41, 51 past the hour
[19:30] <natrium> ok, i will try
[19:33] <natrium> listening
[19:33] <edmoore> it's pretty high isn't it?
[19:33] <jcoxon> dodgey point one sec
[19:35] <jcoxon> natrium, sorry to bother can you delete the rogue point
[19:35] <natrium> sure, sec
[19:36] <jcoxon> its going a bit weird
[19:36] <jcoxon> i think i may have screwed it up /rob is fixing it as well
[19:38] <jcoxon> we really need to get a second station
[19:38] <jcoxon> as the one we have won't last that much longer
[19:46] <natrium> bbl
[19:54] jiffe88 (n=jiffe2@209.159.247.189) joined #highaltitude.
[20:11] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) joined #highaltitude.
[20:11] jiffe97 (n=jiffe2@209.159.247.189) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[21:01] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-152-36-189.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:01] <Laurenceb> hello
[21:03] <Laurenceb> PBH are still up
[21:03] <Laurenceb> interesting
[21:03] <jcoxon> yup
[21:03] <Laurenceb> they are very high
[21:04] <jcoxon> we are trying to get it to cut down
[21:04] <jcoxon> not cutdown - drop ballast
[21:04] <Laurenceb> right
[21:04] <Laurenceb> but the flight computer died?
[21:04] <jcoxon> welll maybe not
[21:04] <Laurenceb> it drops via uplinked commands?
[21:04] <jcoxon> yes
[21:04] <Laurenceb> using aprs?
[21:05] <jcoxon> no 30m
[21:05] <Laurenceb> ah right
[21:05] <Laurenceb> any idea what the receiving hardware is?
[21:05] <jcoxon> rockmite i think
[21:06] <Laurenceb> wow
[21:06] <Laurenceb> thats a really simple design
[21:17] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-154-32-159.range86-154.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[21:19] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-154-32-159.range86-154.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:21] DanielRichman (n=DanielRi@78.149.178.255) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:24] CARL-WA4ADG (i=43bb55d9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-779c66a967447015) joined #highaltitude.
[21:25] CARL-WA4ADG (i=43bb55d9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-779c66a967447015) left irc: Client Quit
[21:26] mc- (n=zsirc@cpc3-glfd1-0-0-cust439.glfd.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:26] <Laurenceb> hi mc-
[21:26] <mc-> hi lb
[21:27] <mc-> was wondering how to get a rockmite to recieve ballst comands
[21:28] <Laurenceb> mc-: did you say youd found where to get dry ice?
[21:28] <mc-> it could do some simple dsp
[21:28] <natrium> jcoxon, what's the news?
[21:28] <mc-> yes phoned up a plae
[21:29] <jcoxon> still trying to send the command
[21:29] <mc-> place
[21:29] <jcoxon> am looking for new receivers
[21:29] <natrium> jcoxon, how?
[21:29] <jcoxon> new receivers?
[21:29] <jcoxon> i'm tuning a few other of the globaltuners
[21:29] <natrium> no, how are you sending the command?
[21:30] <jcoxon> of CW
[21:30] <jcoxon> oh*
[21:30] <mc-> is th comand in morse?
[21:30] <Laurenceb> brb
[21:30] <jcoxon> yes
[21:30] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:31] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Mi ez a szag? Hippit égettéll?=-"
[21:31] <mc-> whats the cw char?
[21:32] <natrium> still no signal here
[21:33] <natrium> jcoxon, still get a copy on the connecticut receiver?
[21:35] <jcoxon> i wasn't on last time
[21:35] <jcoxon> but WB8ELK did
[21:35] edmoore (n=ed@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[21:37] Action: natrium listens in too
[21:46] <Laurenceb> mc-: I was thinking if we had some dry ice it would be possible to test the sparkfun transceiver modules
[21:47] <Laurenceb> I'm not 100% sure how they will mamange with frequency drift
[21:47] <natrium> bbl
[21:48] <Laurenceb> hmm it might have slowed in descent rate
[21:54] <Laurenceb> ~2 hours to sunset I think
[21:55] <Laurenceb> going off a couple of jaxa papers the descent rate should really start to pick up in ~1 hour
[22:15] <jcoxon> it just went up
[22:22] mc- (n=zsirc@cpc3-glfd1-0-0-cust439.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[22:30] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:32] <Laurenceb> interesting
[22:32] <jcoxon> no its going down again
[22:39] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[22:51] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: "Leaving"
[22:54] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-154-32-159.range86-154.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[22:56] peddie (n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU) got netsplit.
[22:58] peddie (n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU) returned to #highaltitude.
[23:00] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[23:11] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[23:20] shellevil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left #highaltitude.
[23:20] shellevil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[23:41] <Laurenceb> it should be starting to drop like a stone by now
[23:43] <Laurenceb> and its not
[23:44] carl-wa4adg (i=43bb55d9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c600b261ec657b86) joined #highaltitude.
[23:46] carl-wa4adg (i=43bb55d9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c600b261ec657b86) left irc: Client Quit
[23:46] SteamAtom (n=steamato@74-132-3-136.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:46] Nick change: SteamAtom -> Dan-K2VOL
[23:49] <Laurenceb> its almost stationary in altitude atm
[23:51] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi Laurenceb
[23:52] <Laurenceb> hi
[23:53] <Dan-K2VOL> No reception recently eh?
[23:54] <Laurenceb> you following PBH3?
[23:55] <Dan-K2VOL> Yep
[23:57] <Laurenceb> its just about reaching sunset
[23:57] <Dan-K2VOL> What a time to lose reception
[23:58] <Laurenceb> according to the jaxa bouyancy results I've looked at, large zero pressure balloons atart to lose bouyancy about 1 hour before sunset
[23:58] <Laurenceb> maximum rate of loss is usually a bit before sunset
[23:59] <Laurenceb> then you continue to lose it for an hour or so more
[23:59] <Laurenceb> extropolating smaller envolopes have a larger surface area so should cool faster
[23:59] <Laurenceb> once they lose solar heating
[00:00] --- Mon Apr 20 2009