highaltitude.log.20090410

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[00:06] <natrium> edmoore!!!11one
[00:07] <jcoxon> natrium, i've emailed a new copy
[00:07] <natrium> ok
[00:24] <jcoxon> does it look okay?
[00:24] <natrium> it's better now
[00:25] <natrium> so you are going with single layer?
[00:25] <jcoxon> yeah
[00:25] <jcoxon> its all i need
[00:26] <natrium> yes, although i would avoid sharp corners
[00:26] <natrium> in the traces
[00:26] <jcoxon> oh right
[00:26] <jcoxon> 90 is bad?
[00:26] <natrium> do you want a ground fill?
[00:26] <natrium> yeah
[00:27] <jcoxon> ummm wasn't planning but if its recommended
[00:29] <natrium> it's up to you
[00:29] <natrium> btw, one airwire remains
[00:29] <natrium> it's fine, right?
[00:29] <natrium> you can connect it with a jumper wire
[00:29] <jcoxon> yeah
[00:30] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[00:30] <jcoxon> thanks natrium for the help
[00:30] <natrium> k
[00:30] <jcoxon> night
[00:30] <natrium> i will email you the files
[00:30] <natrium> nite
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[02:49] <natrium> hallam, how is USA so far?
[02:50] <natrium> do you feel the freedom? :)
[02:56] <hallam> natrium: working on an H-1B visa right now... very exciting
[02:57] <hallam> have to head back across the pond on Monday night though
[02:57] <natrium> oh
[02:57] <natrium> is that a work visa?
[02:57] <hallam> how are things with you? I guess the channel is pretty dead this time of night over here
[02:57] <hallam> yeah
[02:57] <hallam> and by "working on" I mean "working on getting"
[02:58] <natrium> i think i need to design a custom plastic case for my NDS GPS adapter i am working on
[02:58] <natrium> never done plastic molding before
[02:58] <natrium> have you done any CAD design?
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[03:00] <natrium> ...
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[07:28] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:28] <jcoxon> is anyone planning to launch this weekend?
[07:57] <jcoxon> ping natrium
[07:57] <natrium> yo
[07:57] <natrium> nah, i won't get done in time for this weekend
[07:58] <jcoxon> i'm off back to parents and was wondering if i need to take my radio
[07:59] <jcoxon> i've rerouted the wires to have less sharp angles on the board
[08:01] <hallam> does that really make much difference?
[08:02] <jcoxon> no idea
[08:02] <jcoxon> natrium suggested it - it looks better :-)
[08:02] <hallam> looks prettier, anyway :) I guess those electrons don't like to go round corners
[08:02] <hallam> oh boy oh boy I might have a job
[08:02] <natrium> hehe
[08:03] Action: hallam needs to stop counting chickens
[08:03] <jcoxon> natrium, do you have a pcb you need submitting?
[08:03] <natrium> jcoxon, btw, there is a miter tool
[08:04] <natrium> do you have spare room?
[08:04] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:05] <jcoxon> the standard boards at 6.3" by 3.9"
[08:05] <rjharrison> Boo
[08:05] <jcoxon> and my board is 2.8 by 2.8
[08:05] <rjharrison> Hi james sorry about last night
[08:05] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison np
[08:05] <rjharrison> Lack of sleep caught up with me
[08:05] <jcoxon> you launching this weekend?
[08:05] <rjharrison> If it's viable yes
[08:05] <jcoxon> hmmm what day are you considering?
[08:06] <rjharrison> If you get 5 and could suggest an appropriate time frame that would be great
[08:06] <rjharrison> The w/e is in essence free
[08:06] <natrium> jcoxon, hmm, i think i will try those guys --> https://www.barebonespcb.com/!BB1.asp
[08:06] <natrium> thanks for the offer though
[08:07] <natrium> i think i need 2 layers
[08:07] <jcoxon> natrium, no worries
[08:07] <rjharrison> hehe I just got a pm from the zeusbot
[08:07] <jcoxon> i should be able to get 2 boards on to their dimensions
[08:07] <natrium> great
[08:08] <jcoxon> rjharrison, okay monday weather wise looks best
[08:08] <jcoxon> sunday could be reasonable
[08:08] <rjharrison> Sunday looks sunny
[08:08] <rjharrison> what are the jets like
[08:08] <jcoxon> i'd avoid saturday
[08:09] <jcoxon> and today is rubbish
[08:09] <jcoxon> those are teh jets
[08:09] <rjharrison> Ok do we need to wait to gets sundays
[08:10] <jcoxon> natrium, do you reckon i've done enough checking on the pcb?
[08:10] <jcoxon> rjharrison, just running some sims
[08:11] <natrium> jcoxon, looks good, yes
[08:11] <jcoxon> okay cool
[08:13] <jcoxon> rjharrison, okay with CUSF Landing Prediction sunday morning is good
[08:14] <jcoxon> but by the late afternoon is sea bound
[08:14] <rjharrison> Ok 7am launch
[08:14] <jcoxon> let me run it through wyoming
[08:14] <jcoxon> and all of monday is fine
[08:14] <rjharrison> Great can you send me the kml some how
[08:15] <rjharrison> I'll talk with steve to get his bit together
[08:16] <jcoxon> yeah wyoming says its fine
[08:19] <jcoxon> okay sent
[08:19] <jcoxon> i'll be on the suffolk coast (where i am for easter) - will take up my laptop and radio
[08:19] <jcoxon> and track from there
[08:22] <rjharrison> Great
[08:23] <rjharrison> I'm just going to mow the lawn and put up my HF antenna
[08:23] <rjharrison> Will be up for testing later if you are in the mood JC we must be able to get accross the uk
[08:24] <jcoxon> yeah i am around this morning
[08:24] <rjharrison> I'm getting another set of poles and rope
[08:24] <jcoxon> and then i'm going to drive up to suffolk
[08:24] <rjharrison> Well it may take me till lunch time. But we can test when ever
[08:24] <rjharrison> Ate you up hight in suffolk?
[08:25] <jcoxon> high in suffolk?!?! its very flat :-p
[08:27] <hallam> natrium: barebones are good folks
[08:27] <hallam> they're the same people as 4pcb.com
[08:27] <hallam> they send you food with your order
[08:28] <natrium> cool
[08:28] <natrium> i have been meaning to try them
[08:28] <rjharrison> Right that looks ok
[08:28] <rjharrison> Might be a fast ride
[08:28] <hallam> I think i got a free hat out of them too
[08:28] <rjharrison> Heading out in a good direction towards Norwich
[08:29] <hallam> rjharrison: is this your flight?
[08:29] <rjharrison> Was that from the CUSF predictor
[08:29] <jcoxon> as the day progresses it'll swing south towards ipswitch
[08:29] <jcoxon> ipswich*
[08:29] <rjharrison> OK cool
[08:29] <hallam> ah ipswich. Such a classic landing site.
[08:29] <natrium> hallam, planning to make a small PCB for this DC/DC converter chip --> http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2456
[08:29] <rjharrison> Right off to get the petrol to mow the grass
[08:29] <rjharrison> TTFN
[08:30] <rjharrison> Will be chatting later
[08:30] <hallam> cool
[08:30] <natrium> it doesn't waste supply current when under light load unlike my texas DC/DC converter
[08:30] <natrium> texas instruments, that is
[08:31] Action: hallam needs to start learning about rather bigger DC/DC converters
[08:31] <hallam> ~100kW
[08:31] <natrium> whoa
[08:31] <natrium> are you planning to work on your fusor again?
[08:31] <hallam> nope
[08:31] <hallam> it's for power transmission
[08:32] <jcoxon> natrium, what should i say about hte silkscreen again
[08:32] <natrium> is switching converter possible for this power?
[08:33] <natrium> or need a transformer?
[08:33] <natrium> jcoxon, just tell them to ignore any silkscreen errors
[08:34] <jcoxon> they are't going to get upset?
[08:34] <natrium> usually there are min width requirements for silkscreen too
[08:34] <natrium> well, unless you want to fix it?
[08:34] <jcoxon> oh they suggest a script
[08:34] <natrium> might work
[08:34] <hallam> natrium: it'll use some kind of transformer, but a high frequency one - like in a PC power supply, but bigger
[08:35] <hallam> and it has to be super lightweight and run for 10 years. hm.
[08:35] <natrium> i never got eagle to work with proportional fonts
[08:35] <hallam> yeah leave it on vectors
[08:35] <natrium> even silkscreen seems to require vector fonts, or it will auto-transform it to vector on gerber export
[08:35] <hallam> eagle works with proportional fonts okay, but the gerbers it outputs don't
[08:35] <natrium> hallam, what's stupid is that the eagle default components use proportional :/
[08:35] <hallam> if you want fancy graphics you have to import them with that ridiculous script
[08:36] <hallam> yeah tell me about it
[08:36] <jcoxon> okay that made a few changes
[08:36] <hallam> eagle has such idiosyncrasies
[08:36] <natrium> jcoxon, does that script change them to vector too?
[08:37] <hallam> There's an option in some settings box that makes them vector by default
[08:38] <natrium> need to find it then :)
[08:39] <jcoxon> just about to send...
[08:39] <natrium> i ended up modifying the default libraries a bit (bad idea probably...)
[08:39] <jcoxon> hmmmm i think they are still proportional
[08:39] <jcoxon> but its what they recommended so i don't care
[08:40] <hallam> you can check the gerbers at freedfm.com (also the same people as barebones)
[08:40] <jcoxon> right sent
[08:41] <natrium> jcoxon, to olimex?
[08:41] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:41] <natrium> excellent :)
[08:41] <natrium> hallam, olimex accepts eagle format
[08:41] <hallam> oh, that is convenient
[08:42] <hallam> maybe proportional is okay then, if they produce the photo tools direct from eagle
[08:42] <jcoxon> no they convert to gerber
[08:42] <natrium> yeah, hmm
[08:42] <jcoxon> if they through a fit i'll fix it
[08:42] <hallam> they can get kind of angry
[08:42] <jcoxon> i followed their instructions
[08:44] <jcoxon> could you use a programable oscilator to make a multiband radio?
[08:44] Action: jcoxon is on sparkfun
[08:44] <hallam> that's what edmoore plans to do
[08:44] <hallam> which osc were you thinking of?
[08:45] <jcoxon> oh i wasn't
[08:45] <jcoxon> it was more out of interest
[08:45] <jcoxon> had the DS1077 page up
[08:45] <hallam> there are some nicer chips that go to higher freq and have programmable phase, so you can do PSK
[08:46] <hallam> but the principle should work
[08:46] <hallam> I read one page by a ham who'd built one
[08:46] <hallam> it's 3:45am though, natrium and I should each go to bed
[08:46] <jcoxon> haha
[08:46] <jcoxon> thats not dirty at all
[08:46] <hallam> hence the "each"
[08:47] <jcoxon> :-)
[08:47] <hallam> g'night!
[08:47] <jcoxon> so potentially a flight at 7am sunday
[08:47] <natrium> hallam, yes, good idea
[08:47] <jcoxon> night hallam
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[08:47] <natrium> g'nite
[08:50] <jcoxon> night
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[09:58] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
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[10:08] <edmoore> mornign jcoxon
[10:08] <edmoore> about to dash home for the weekend
[10:08] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!n=jcoxon@host86-154-32-159.range86-154.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk . Nova 11 Flight Sun 12/04/09 07:00GMT, Track: http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/ More info: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/current_launch_details
[10:09] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!n=jcoxon@host86-154-32-159.range86-154.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk . Icarus 3 Flight Sunday 12/04/09 07:00GMT, Track: http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/ More info: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/current_launch_details
[10:09] <jcoxon> oh cool
[10:09] <jcoxon> i'm debating whether to leave now to go home
[10:09] <jcoxon> was planning to do some work this morning but thats really not happening
[10:13] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: poets day
[10:15] <edmoore> ok bbl
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[10:18] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, :)
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[11:11] <Laurenceb> hi
[11:11] <gordonjcp> morning
[11:20] <rjharrison> . hi
[11:20] <rjharrison> got the uhf and vhf up on the roof
[11:20] <shellevil> hi
[11:20] <shellevil> :)
[11:20] <gordonjcp> rjharrison: cool
[11:20] <rjharrison> time to put the hf up
[11:21] <shellevil> Don't forget the ELF for when we get the submarines.
[11:21] Action: gordonjcp picked up a copy of "RadioScience Observing" the other day
[11:21] <gordonjcp> some interesting ELF projects
[11:21] <shellevil> yeah
[11:22] <Laurenceb> earthquake prediction :P
[11:23] <Laurenceb> I made an ELF antenna a few years ago
[11:23] <Laurenceb> field mills are also fun
[11:24] <shellevil> and on the other side - magnetometers
[11:25] <shellevil> ionospheric storms, ...
[11:25] <Laurenceb> HAARP
[11:26] <Laurenceb> *black helicopters*
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[11:57] <rjharrison> Anyone know what the frequencies are for the halo atlantic
[11:57] <rjharrison> is it 40m
[11:57] <rjharrison> piung natrium
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[12:07] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[12:07] <jcoxon> its 40m the test was on 7.01410Mhz
[12:07] <jcoxon> i would assume it'll stay around there
[12:20] <rjharrison> boo
[12:20] <rjharrison> coo
[12:20] <rjharrison> l
[12:20] <rjharrison> I'm going to set up a 1/4 wave
[12:21] <rjharrison> 10m long wire
[12:22] <jcoxon> do you have a tuner?
[12:22] <jcoxon> might be worth just setting up a longer wire
[12:23] <rjharrison> Yep I do
[12:23] <rjharrison> Just not sure what length to make
[12:24] <rjharrison> I could do a full wave 40m
[12:24] <rjharrison> I know I'm supposed to keep away from 1/2 wave
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[12:27] <rjharrison> jcoxon, what freq are they going to be using on the 18th
[12:28] <jcoxon> ummm its'll be 40m and 30m
[12:28] <jcoxon> not sure what the exact freq will be
[12:28] <rjharrison> Oh yep you said
[12:28] <jcoxon> if i remember rightly the longer the wire the better
[12:28] <rjharrison> Well that is true ish it think but no 1/2 wave lenghts
[12:29] <jcoxon> 10.148 and 7.104
[12:29] <jcoxon> 30m TLM downlinks at 00, 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50min
[12:29] <jcoxon> 40m TLM downlinks at 05, 15, 25, 35, 45 and 55min
[12:29] <jcoxon> GPS time plus 0-10sec
[12:29] <jcoxon> FORMAT: VVV call AAAAA LLLLLLL YYYYYYYY BBB TTT
[12:29] <jcoxon> AAAAA is altitude in meters
[12:29] <jcoxon> LLLLLLL is latitude in decimal degrees
[12:29] <jcoxon> YYYYYYYY is longitude in decimal degrees
[12:29] <jcoxon> BBB is battery voltage
[12:29] <jcoxon> TTT is ballast tank condition
[12:29] <rjharrison> Perhaps I should put up 12.5 m
[12:30] <rjharrison> humm no
[12:30] <rjharrison> 10 meters would be good as it's 1/4 wave for 40m
[12:34] <jcoxon> i'd go for a dipole if i was you
[12:35] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[12:35] <jcoxon> will be on perhaps later
[12:35] <jcoxon> rjharrison, still on for sun?
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[13:19] <rjharrison> Anouncement Icarus II will be launching sunday subject to wx behaving
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[14:38] <rjharrison> Yo ed
[14:38] <edmoore> back
[14:38] <edmoore> yo rjharrison
[14:38] <rjharrison> Same about not tracking
[14:38] <edmoore> yeah
[14:38] <rjharrison> The JS is going to take us toward Harwich
[14:38] <edmoore> if you'd have told me at 9am :p
[14:38] <rjharrison> Hehe no plan at that time
[14:38] <rjharrison> Just ben checking the weather
[14:38] <edmoore> actually
[14:39] <rjharrison> Steve is comming over
[14:39] <edmoore> there may be an option
[14:39] <edmoore> oh no wait, there is no option
[14:39] <rjharrison> Local ham's
[14:39] <edmoore> well, I could get someone in college to rig up my radio
[14:39] <edmoore> but they'd have to break into my room to get laptop etc
[14:40] <rjharrison> hum
[14:40] <rjharrison> not an option really
[14:41] <rjharrison> You need a light radio
[14:41] <rjharrison> I keep the 817 in the glove comp
[14:42] <rjharrison> we are going to catch the balloon on sunday
[14:42] <rjharrison> close tracking
[14:43] <edmoore> rjharrison: if you want to loan a poor student the cash for an 817, be my guest :)
[14:43] <edmoore> yeah, listen to it the whole way
[14:44] <edmoore> our issue was that it was such a 'simple' flight we didn't bother constantly listening in the car, and wrigging to the roof antenna
[14:44] <edmoore> if we had that, I'm confident we'd have heard it down to 50m alt, and finind it would be easy
[14:44] <edmoore> after doing the tethered test with steve on sunday, it's amazing how high 50m actually is
[14:45] <edmoore> You did a huuuuge tethered test, didn't you?
[14:45] <edmoore> quiet in here today. It's been flirting with 30 of late
[14:50] <rjharrison> Yep it's been quite busy
[14:50] <epictetu1> 842
[14:50] <rjharrison> I have 400m of string in the draw
[14:50] <rjharrison> Kite stuff
[14:50] <epictetu1> nice
[14:50] <rjharrison> I'm going to head of to the local HAM shop
[14:51] <rjharrison> Just got a 10m cable made up for for the HF antenna
[14:51] <rjharrison> Will hopefully catch landing on video that's the challenge for Sunday :)
[14:51] <edmoore> why are you after an HF antenna?
[14:51] <rjharrison> Halo
[14:51] <edmoore> for hamming in general or specifically ballooning?
[14:51] <edmoore> ah cool
[14:52] <rjharrison> 40m
[14:52] <rjharrison> I may even by an antenna at the ham shop depending
[14:52] <edmoore> we've got a landing on video... shame it was just a camera-phone though!
[14:52] <rjharrison> right must dash kids in car
[14:52] <rjharrison> crying
[14:52] <rjharrison> !!!
[14:52] <rjharrison> Bad dad
[14:52] <edmoore> eeek
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[14:59] <edmoore> wb rjharrison
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[15:27] <edmoore> hi stilldavid - how's tricks?
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[16:03] <rjharrison_> hum
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[16:03] <rjharrison_> Tracker didn't work too well
[16:03] <rjharrison_> It got a few sentences off
[16:13] <rjharrison_> Sunday is looking good for a launch according to the BBC forcast of 2mph winds
[16:14] <rjharrison_> I know I need to look at the jets too
[16:14] <rjharrison_> BTW edmoore was the tidying worth while?
[16:15] <edmoore> yes.
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[16:15] <rjharrison_> lol
[16:15] <Hiena> 'morning!
[16:15] <rjharrison_> afternoon here :)
[16:16] <rjharrison_> i have to go and get some lithiums to run some endurance tests
[16:17] <rjharrison_> Got the dv camera on charge ready to film the landing
[16:19] <edmoore> ha
[16:19] <Hiena> rjharrison, another launch?
[16:19] <rjharrison_> easier said than done I think
[16:19] <rjharrison_> Yep sunday am
[16:19] <rjharrison_> about 7 am
[16:20] <rjharrison_> Hoping that the telemetry is going to be fine this year
[16:20] <rjharrison_> In fact this should be the best tracked launch to date
[16:21] <rjharrison_> With updates every 20 seconds
[16:21] <rjharrison_> Obv need to have some luck on the way
[16:22] <edmoore> on ther server?
[16:22] <rjharrison_> Yep
[16:22] <Hiena> Nice.
[16:22] <Hiena> I'm decided to making a bootable UAV control CD based on the finnix distribution.
[16:23] <rjharrison_> Wow
[16:23] <rjharrison_> Cool OSS
[16:24] <rjharrison_> edmoore: In your experience what is the chance of casing just using the telmetry
[16:24] <rjharrison_> Am I better off using the CUSF predicotr
[16:25] <rjharrison_> predictor?
[16:25] <edmoore> predictor is a modern luxury :)
[16:25] <rjharrison_> Did you film without it?
[16:25] <edmoore> but if you want to see it come down, predictor is a real help
[16:25] <edmoore> no
[16:26] <rjharrison_> I'm hoping to do it just off the telemetry
[16:26] <edmoore> we used the predictor to overtake the balloon and lie in wait for it as it passed overhead at about 50-100m
[16:26] <rjharrison_> that is probably the only way
[16:27] <edmoore> they do it in the us without
[16:27] <edmoore> but the have more open spaces and wide easy roads
[16:28] <rjharrison_> I can live in hope. i guess it depends on the winds being stable and uniform
[16:28] <edmoore> in windy english countryside, having a predictor makes it easier to decide which of n dirt-tracks to take
[16:28] <edmoore> windey*
[16:28] <rjharrison_> yep but I guess in the US the problem is choosing the correct road as they are so far appart
[16:30] <edmoore> sure, but then they all have trucks and can just wander out into the desert :)
[16:32] <rjharrison_> True. There will be no records set on sunday unless the flight path improves
[16:33] <rjharrison_> I'm thinking 32K ish
[16:33] <edmoore> 1.5kg?
[16:33] <rjharrison_> possibly 2kg
[16:34] <rjharrison_> Really a listener and rx test
[16:34] <rjharrison_> not a record attempt
[16:34] <rjharrison_> I would have gone record last w/e
[16:36] <edmoore> anything small under a 2/3kg balloon should smash it. Just a question of the right day.
[16:38] <edmoore> and wanting to use a 2/3kg balloon on something small :)
[16:40] <rjharrison_> 2kg is fine it would have to be very special for a 3kg
[16:42] <rjharrison_> edmoore: I'm about 15 miles behind a hill
[16:42] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php?id=2e0rjh
[16:43] <rjharrison_> This is the raw data being logged
[16:43] <rjharrison_> A prime example of how this extra data can be used to discern position
[16:44] <rjharrison_> RX (2009-04-10 15:36Z): $$icarus,78617:36:05,53.612980,-1.527353,78,0,000.0,22.0,28.8
[16:44] <rjharrison_> This is almost a perfect string
[16:47] <rjharrison_> Right i'm signing off
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[16:51] <stilldavid> afternoon all
[16:52] <stilldavid> I've been reading about regulations here in the states for unmanned balloons, and they require two independent cut-down systems it appears.
[16:53] <stilldavid> there are a few techniques I've come across on the interwebs, just curious if anyone here has success/fail stories regarding cut-down systems
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[17:14] <edmoore> stilldavid: yes
[17:14] <edmoore> there seem to be two camps
[17:14] <edmoore> pyrotechnics and melty things
[17:15] <stilldavid> I was looking at melty things, they seem to be the best option
[17:16] <shellevil> melty things are easy to test.
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[17:22] <jcoxon> Afternoon all
[17:22] Action: shellevil looks at the cock.
[17:22] <shellevil> clock
[17:22] <shellevil> sigh.
[17:22] <jcoxon> :)
[17:22] Action: shellevil has been doing way too much manual labour today.
[17:23] <shellevil> Weedkilling, raking stuff up, wheelbarrowing, ...
[17:23] Action: jcoxon is on the suffolk coast at a family reunion
[17:23] <shellevil> Willingly?
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[17:24] <jcoxon> mildly
[17:24] <jcoxon> does place me rather well for the flight on sunday
[17:24] <shellevil> :)
[17:24] Action: shellevil now has 2 bulk bags of rubbish to dispose of.
[17:24] <shellevil> Heading for 3.
[17:27] Action: shellevil ponders a _really_ big balloon launch.
[17:28] <jcoxon> bigger then a ZP?
[17:29] <shellevil> (to dispose of the 800Kg or so of rubbish)
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[17:36] <gordonjcp> cannon
[17:36] <jcoxon> shellevil, hehe
[17:39] <jcoxon> bbl
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[18:16] <edmoore> hi B12CORE
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[18:42] <rjharrison> Launch details updated http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/current_launch_details
[18:44] <natrium> yay
[18:44] <natrium> finally a launch :)
[18:46] <edmoore> natrium: it's only been like a week!
[18:46] <natrium> pfft :P
[18:46] <natrium> there should be one daily :P
[18:46] <edmoore> oh rjharrison this is annoying
[18:46] <edmoore> I would so listen
[18:47] <natrium> rjharrison, nice, you have added raw data to the listeners?
[18:49] <edmoore> it would be cool if we could have hf on the balloons too
[18:49] <edmoore> people in germany could track it for us
[18:52] <natrium> is it legal?
[18:56] <shellevil> germany?
[18:56] <natrium> Deutschland
[18:56] <shellevil> It is a relatively recent state, as states go.
[18:56] <shellevil> But widely recognised.
[18:57] <shellevil> More sensibly
[18:57] <natrium> ambitious & misunderstood
[18:57] <shellevil> transmitting overr international waters is I think legal.
[18:57] <shellevil> Barring any extraterritorial portions of the requisite laws.
[18:57] <shellevil> Like the rocket launch ones in the UK.
[18:58] <shellevil> Or sex tourism.
[18:58] <shellevil> Though you can't get a permit for the latter.
[18:59] <natrium> brb, reboot
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[19:07] <rjharrison> Boo
[19:07] <rjharrison> Well mission control is in full swing
[19:07] <natrium42> chenqui
[19:07] <rjharrison> I'm setting up all the tests
[19:07] <natrium42> pics plz :)
[19:08] <rjharrison> Ok Will sorth tem out soon
[19:08] <natrium42> do you get fast mobile internet everywhere?
[19:08] <rjharrison> Yep
[19:08] <rjharrison> we live on a small island
[19:08] <natrium42> nice
[19:08] <natrium42> :D
[19:08] <rjharrison> it's not 100%
[19:08] <rjharrison> but it's quite good around the sputh
[19:09] <rjharrison> south
[19:09] <natrium42> you should do videostreaming then
[19:09] <rjharrison> May try it
[19:09] <rjharrison> It's not a problem just were a bit busy at launch
[19:09] <rjharrison> We need decicated media type
[19:09] <natrium42> yah
[19:10] <rjharrison> type = person
[19:10] <natrium42> i have been thinking of internet controllable pan/tilt camera
[19:10] <rjharrison> That would be a cool box and let the forum control it
[19:10] <natrium42> yeah
[19:10] <natrium42> might wire something up
[19:10] <natrium42> hard part is finding a good quality webcam
[19:11] <natrium42> the only decent one is the isight firewire
[19:11] <natrium42> but it's $$$
[19:11] <natrium42> and discontinues
[19:11] <natrium42> -s+d
[19:11] <natrium42> another option is a camcorder with firewire
[19:12] <natrium42> with some of the canon ones you can even controll zoom over firewire
[19:12] <shellevil> or just a composite out decent cam
[19:12] <shellevil> and a composite in card
[19:13] <natrium42> yeah
[19:13] <natrium42> been also thinking about optical tracking
[19:13] <natrium42> using a goto telescope mount
[19:14] <natrium42> not sure if telescope itself is required, though...
[19:18] <shellevil> telescope + offset 'd work quite well
[19:18] <shellevil> nice fat zoom lens and 500-1000m away
[19:20] <natrium42> would it work to 30km altitude and X km downrange is the question
[19:20] <shellevil> yeah
[19:20] <natrium42> all i want to see is a dot :)
[19:21] <shellevil> Well - given the quality of the image you get when looking sideways, that'd seem to be questionable
[19:21] <natrium42> hmm?
[19:22] <natrium42> it would be a camcorder too
[19:22] <natrium42> so that the computer can guide the mount to point it at the object
[19:24] <natrium42> a DS2000 mount is cheap and should do it
[19:25] <shellevil> A laser beacon might work well
[19:25] <shellevil> 500mW or so red, and a nice tight filter.
[19:25] <shellevil> especially modulated
[19:26] <shellevil> Or even IR, if you're feeling cheap.
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[19:30] <shellevil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1000mw-808nm-laser-diode-TO-5-Package_W0QQitemZ140300586008QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item140300586008
[19:30] <natrium42> but then you have to point the laser at the observer
[19:31] <natrium42> i believe NASA theodolites only use 10" reflectors
[19:31] <natrium42> to track the shuttle optically on ascent/landing
[19:32] <natrium42> i just want to see a dot, so it should be possible
[19:33] <natrium42> might try a hand guided scope next time i launch
[19:36] <edmoore> time of flight is 100uS from a balloon 30km away
[19:36] <edmoore> for light
[19:36] <edmoore> in a vacuum
[19:37] <edmoore> that seems surprisingly slow
[19:37] <shellevil> natri: err - no
[19:37] <edmoore> oh actually abort plan, pc soundcard will screw everything
[19:37] <shellevil> I mean simply shine it onto a ballbearing, inside a ping-pong ball as a diffuser
[19:48] <natrium42> ah, gotcha
[19:48] <natrium42> and then use a filter on the camera?
[19:48] <rjharrison> Right I'm getting there
[19:49] <rjharrison> Will post a few pics to flicker in a sec
[19:49] <shellevil> nat: basically, yes.
[19:49] <rjharrison> Will show new 169 rx
[19:49] <shellevil> natrium42: or a filter to the demodulator
[19:49] <rjharrison> and tx
[19:50] <shellevil> A IR remote reciever - connected to a bigger diode, through a narrowband filter to a scope, to the IR radiator
[19:50] <natrium42> hmm, might actually work
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[19:53] <rjharrison> edmoore: Does your predictor work to forcast sunday morning
[19:53] <rjharrison> I struggle with wyoming sometimes
[19:53] <edmoore> have ye tried it?
[19:54] <rjharrison> No does it use weather data etc
[19:54] <edmoore> i'm sure it uses weather data
[19:54] <edmoore> :p
[19:54] <rjharrison> CUSF one
[19:54] <edmoore> I'm not following you at all rjharrison
[19:55] <edmoore> it downloads the best gribs it can and runs a sim
[19:55] <rjharrison> Do you know the url or is it on the wiki
[19:55] <edmoore> .co.uk/predict
[19:56] <rjharrison> thanks
[20:02] <rjharrison> Scary that is cool
[20:02] <rjharrison> Just varying by an hour and get different predictions
[20:03] <rjharrison> All on the same theam
[20:03] <rjharrison> theme
[20:03] <rjharrison> nice
[20:03] <edmoore> what does it look like?
[20:03] <rjharrison> looks like miday launch would be best according to the predictor
[20:04] <rjharrison> Shit loads faster than the wyoming thing
[20:04] <rjharrison> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/flight_path.kml
[20:05] <edmoore> it automagically downloads the forecasts in adavnce
[20:05] <rjharrison> Well I really like it
[20:05] <edmoore> i think half the wait with wyoming is waiting for the file to trickle off some weather server
[20:06] <edmoore> either that or they wrote it in javascript
[20:06] <natrium42> or java :P
[20:06] <rjharrison> lol
[20:06] <edmoore> funky wind patterns
[20:13] <rjharrison> Yep funck
[20:13] <rjharrison> funcky
[20:13] <rjharrison> so long as it keeps dry I'm happy
[20:31] <rjharrison> Setting up camera to shoot 60 sec video 12 times an hour with 8 pics
[20:31] <rjharrison> 8 pics per video
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[20:39] <shellevil> oh - neat
[20:39] <shellevil> I can load a kml prediction into google earth, and see how high over - if - the horizon it is
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[21:41] <rjharrison> FIrst few pics in http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3430036490/in/set-72157616505094071/
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[21:42] <Laurenceb> hello
[21:43] <Laurenceb> edmoore: thanks for that link, very interesting
[21:43] <Laurenceb> are there any photos off NOVA11 ?
[21:43] <edmoore> Laurenceb: you'll be t'first to know
[21:43] <edmoore> yeah the link was interesting wasn't it
[21:43] <edmoore> saw it and thought of you
[21:43] <Laurenceb> :P
[21:44] <Laurenceb> the bistatic gps idea was good
[21:44] <edmoore> rjharrison: that's the wee-est payload ever
[21:44] <edmoore> you could bash an alt record to pieces
[21:45] <Laurenceb> the bistatic wave radar at surrey uses a vertex4, slightly more hardcore
[21:46] <edmoore> :)
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[21:47] <Laurenceb> the idea is to get out 2D wave spectrum
[21:53] Action: Laurenceb has been decorating all day
[21:56] Nick change: shellevil1 -> ShellEvil
[21:58] <Laurenceb> aparently it takes 2 days to apint a door
[21:58] <ShellEvil> Took me that.
[21:58] <ShellEvil> Day 1, paint door, think it's nice and dry. Spray off door surround of dirt.
[21:59] <ShellEvil> Find it wasn't really dry. say bugger.
[21:59] <Laurenceb> I've got 17 doors to do :-/
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[22:00] <ShellEvil> Why?
[22:01] <ShellEvil> spread something down inside, do the insides carefully, on more-or-less any day.
[22:01] <ShellEvil> wait for a warm day, prop them open, and do the outsides
[22:02] <Laurenceb> its all internal doors now
[22:02] <Laurenceb> and I screwed them in place before painting - probably the wrong way to do it
[22:02] <Laurenceb> I dont really want to remove them as it'll waeken the screw holes
[22:04] <ShellEvil> flat doors?
[22:04] <ShellEvil> as in flat surface, not doors of flats
[22:05] Action: ShellEvil has been burning lots of stuff today.
[22:06] <Laurenceb> no. reproduction and antique pine with loads of moldings
[22:07] <ShellEvil> Get a planar thicknesser. Put the door through that first.
[22:07] <ShellEvil> Much faster then.
[22:07] <ShellEvil> 2 days seems pessimistic though.
[22:07] <ShellEvil> painting, not staining?
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[22:34] <jcoxon> hey all
[22:38] <ShellEvil> hay
[22:39] <rjharrison> Yo jcoxon
[22:40] <rjharrison> Few more pics added http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157616505094071/
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[22:42] <rjharrison> Hi mc- Hoping to launch on Sunday AM all being well
[22:42] <mc-> jcoxon, Ive got a vat no if you order from olimex
[22:42] <mc-> good luck rjh
[22:43] <rjharrison> Thanks mc-, perhaps have some more pics for your next visit
[23:01] <edmoore> I have experimented with some stuff before. And I thought I naturally imaged some pretty wierd stuff anyway. But...
[23:01] <edmoore> well I just don't know how one deals with getting their head around this
[23:01] <edmoore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoiGJMZjs0o
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[23:11] <Laurenceb> hmm interesting payload
[23:11] <Laurenceb> the radiometrix receiver is certainly good enough in theory
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[23:12] <Laurenceb> but transceiver ICs are a much nicer IMO
[23:13] <Laurenceb> I dont see any link from the receiver to the transmitter
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[23:16] <rjharrison> Laurenceb it works via radio waves
[23:16] <rjharrison> :)
[23:16] <Laurenceb> lol
[23:16] <rjharrison> Tx ground RX in air lol
[23:16] <Laurenceb> I mean from the receiver to the uC
[23:17] <rjharrison> There is no round trip
[23:17] <rjharrison> :)
[23:17] <Laurenceb> 169MHz ?
[23:17] <rjharrison> yep
[23:17] <Laurenceb> I'm confused
[23:17] <rjharrison> Sorry I couldn't resist that
[23:17] <Laurenceb> what are you planning to do?
[23:17] <rjharrison> TX up from the ground to the RX and record on MP3 player
[23:17] <Laurenceb> ah
[23:17] <Laurenceb> using a ham band?
[23:18] <rjharrison> Them playback on the ground to work out how far link was kept
[23:18] <rjharrison> 169 blah blah
[23:18] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:18] <Laurenceb> the sensitivity is very good on those modules
[23:19] <Laurenceb> but they are big and dumb
[23:19] <Laurenceb> also the IF BPF is rather wide
[23:19] <rjharrison> 169.40624 ENT1
[23:20] <Laurenceb> hang on a minute... that should decrease sensitivity
[23:20] <rjharrison> We'll see how it goes
[23:20] <rjharrison> It will be a bit of fun
[23:20] <rjharrison> bbiab
[23:21] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:21] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah the specs meet the chipcon modules at 1.2kbps
[23:25] <Laurenceb> something I'm confused about - with FM tansmission you have bit rate and frequency deviation
[23:26] <Laurenceb> if you have more frequency deviation, the receiver lets in more noise
[23:26] <Laurenceb> and low bit rate makes it more noise resistant...
[23:28] <Laurenceb> so... chipcon modules running at a low bitrate lower the FM deviation - unlike the radiometrix RX where its fixed by the IF bandpass filter
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[23:30] <Laurenceb> hmm so whats the best way to use the radiometrix?
[23:31] <Laurenceb> 10kbps is excessive, but the IF bandwidth is fixed, so are you better chucking through 10kps with tons of FEC ?
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[23:48] <rjharrison> Ping RocketBoy
[23:48] <rjharrison> PM
[23:50] <rjharrison> Laurenceb: To be honnest I really don't have a clue about all that stuff. I just warble the FM and TX rtty at 50 baud seems to be ok
[23:50] <rjharrison> Just watching the end of the wedding singers
[23:50] <Laurenceb> :P
[23:50] <Laurenceb> it looks like the IF bandwidth is 6khz
[23:51] <rjharrison> Cool
[23:51] <rjharrison> I think
[23:51] <Laurenceb> anyone remember what the max frequency deviation on NOVA11 was?
[23:51] <rjharrison> the shift or the variation
[23:51] <Laurenceb> variation on carrier
[23:51] <rjharrison> There should be less variation due to the signal being FM
[23:51] <rjharrison> I think
[23:52] <Laurenceb> well
[23:52] <Laurenceb> your IF bandpass filter has to match the transmitted frequency
[23:53] <Laurenceb> and looking at the radiometrix pdf, its handly a nice design
[23:53] <Laurenceb> there different crystals that could drift by differing amounts
[23:53] <Laurenceb> and screw everything up
[23:54] <Laurenceb> -112dBm 10^-6BER looks good on paper... but theres a lot to go wrong
[23:54] <rjharrison> I guess we foind out real soon
[23:54] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:54] <Laurenceb> your recording the AF output?
[23:54] <rjharrison> Correct
[23:54] <Laurenceb> how are you transmitting?
[23:55] <rjharrison> Yagi from ground using the RM Tx module
[23:55] <rjharrison> see picture
[23:55] <rjharrison> Of breadboard
[23:55] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157616505094071/
[23:55] <Laurenceb> ah
[23:55] <Laurenceb> so your modulating with... AFSK?
[23:55] <Laurenceb> into the radiometrix
[23:57] <rjharrison> Yep wiggeling the PWM actually
[23:57] <rjharrison> BBIAB
[00:00] --- Sat Apr 11 2009