highaltitude.log.20090408

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[07:10] <rjharrison> Hi natrium42
[07:10] <rjharrison> You still up?
[07:10] <natrium42> hi
[07:10] <natrium42> yes
[07:10] <natrium42> sup?
[07:11] <rjharrison> I'm going to try to integrate the listening locations into the tracker
[07:11] <rjharrison> So it all displays on one map
[07:12] <rjharrison> We are doing some further work on the listener too logg all the data recieved and not just clean data
[07:12] <natrium42> ok
[07:12] <natrium42> sounds good
[07:13] <rjharrison> It's easy to write the kml file to show both. It's a little trickier to do it on google maps
[07:13] <rjharrison> With ajax updatating
[07:13] <rjharrison> Right I'm off to work don't stay up too late
[07:15] <natrium42> yeah, i will see if i can add it to google maps
[07:15] <natrium42> later
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[07:37] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
[07:39] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[07:39] <natrium42> trying to find a better dc/dc converter for 3.3V supply
[07:40] <natrium42> the texas ones have terrible power draw when under little load :S
[07:40] <natrium42> http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=flightcomputer:specs#power_usage
[07:41] <jcoxon> oh yeah :-(
[07:42] <natrium42> should have looked closer at the datasheet --> http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/ptr08060w
[07:42] <natrium42> over 90% efficiency is only achieved when almost at max load
[07:42] <natrium42> so have been looking for replacement
[07:43] <natrium42> already found much better alternatives
[07:43] <jcoxon> great
[07:43] <jcoxon> i wired up my lassen on my breadboard yesterday
[07:44] <jcoxon> am working on a arduino pcb shield for ballasthalo
[07:44] <jcoxon> oh there is going to be a ZP balloon on the 18th April from the US
[07:44] <jcoxon> the guys who had the rogue zp a couple of weeks ago
[07:44] <natrium42> how are you going to fab the pcb?
[07:45] <jcoxon> send it off somewhere
[07:45] <jcoxon> not sure where though
[07:45] <natrium42> hmm, let me know before you do
[07:45] <natrium42> may need to make little adapter PCBs for DC/DC conversion
[07:46] <jcoxon> oh okay
[07:46] <natrium42> if you could squezze them in
[07:46] <jcoxon> do you have any suggestions of places?
[07:46] <natrium42> i use gold phoenix
[07:47] <natrium42> might be too expensive for little pcb --> http://www.goldphoenixpcb.biz/special_price.php
[07:47] <jcoxon> yeah i don't really want to many copies
[07:47] <jcoxon> not sure how good i am at designing pcbs!
[07:50] <natrium42> here's what ladyada thinks --> http://www.ladyada.net/library/pcb/manufacturers.html
[07:50] <jcoxon> i was thinking: http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/index.html
[07:52] <natrium42> hmm
[07:56] <jcoxon> batchpcb take along time
[07:58] <natrium42> maybe --> https://www.33each.com/!33each1.asp
[07:58] <natrium42> ?
[07:59] <natrium42> oh, min quantity is 4
[08:00] <natrium42> or is that min quantity for non-students only?
[08:02] <natrium42> i also used olimex a while ago --> http://www.olimex.com/pcb/index.html
[08:02] <jcoxon> not sure, it isn't really clear
[08:03] <natrium42> yeah... just pick one
[08:03] <natrium42> :P
[08:03] <jcoxon> they might be best - olimex
[08:07] <jcoxon> as tehy accept eagle brd files
[08:08] <natrium42> i got my first ever pcb manufactured with them
[08:09] <natrium42> it was an mp3 player design back when mp3 players just started to appear
[08:09] <jcoxon> hehe cool
[08:09] <jcoxon> right i better be off - got a morning of lectures
[08:09] <natrium42> k, have fun
[08:09] <jcoxon> cya
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[11:52] <Laurenceb> hi
[11:52] <edmoore> hi
[11:55] Action: Laurenceb wishes sparkfun would get some stock in
[11:56] <Laurenceb> very interesting front page tho
[11:58] <Laurenceb> ooh hang on they have the chipcon modules in stock
[11:58] <Laurenceb> I'm prob going to put an order in if they eventually get round to getting some GS406, anyone want to add anything?
[12:19] <Laurenceb> edmoore: whats the gain of your large yagi?
[12:20] <edmoore> <10^6 dB
[12:20] <edmoore> > 5 dB
[12:20] <edmoore> somehwhere in there
[12:20] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:20] <Laurenceb> 14dBi ?
[12:20] <edmoore> something like that
[12:21] <edmoore> maybe 12
[12:21] <edmoore> I don't know tbh
[12:21] <edmoore> but I do know it's lunch time
[12:21] <edmoore> bbl
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[12:38] <Laurenceb> cya all
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[18:48] <edmoore> evening rjharrison
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> random youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSPzMva9_CE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnbee.info%2F2009%2F04%2Ftop-10-amazing-laboratory-reactions.html&feature=player_embedded
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> supercool!
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[20:03] <rjharrison> Hi edmoore
[20:03] <edmoore> all well?
[20:04] <rjharrison> Yep
[20:04] <rjharrison> PM
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[20:39] <edmoore> hi G8KHW
[20:42] <rjharrison> Hi G8KHW
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[20:45] <Laurenceb> hi
[20:47] <rjharrison> hi law
[20:47] <rjharrison> hi Laurenceb
[20:47] <rjharrison> hehe
[20:48] <natrium> lawrence?
[20:49] <rjharrison> yep :)
[20:49] <natrium> :)
[20:49] <rjharrison> Brain out of control
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[20:50] <edmoore> Laurenceb: in 2-3 sentences, what is the effect of clouds and rain on gps?
[20:50] <Laurenceb> not a lot
[20:50] <Laurenceb> if you have extremely large raindrops you may start to get attenuation
[20:51] <Laurenceb> also humidity will cause very slight attenuation, but the frequencies were chosen specifically to avoid such effects
[20:51] <edmoore> sure, so read
[20:52] <edmoore> I wonder if there'd be any other effects, like changing refractive index affecting something
[20:52] <Laurenceb> if theres a load of water on the antenna, it could screw it up
[20:53] <Laurenceb> theres a variable tropospheric delay of a meter or so
[20:54] <Laurenceb> very accurate survey gps uses barometric pressure temperature and humidity to improve performance
[20:54] <Laurenceb> - when you want mm accuracy
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[20:55] <natrium> ...
[20:55] <natrium> did you get that Laurenceb?
[20:55] <natrium> <natrium> Laurenceb, i see some weird effect with my 10x10x6mm patch antenna
[20:55] <Laurenceb> nope
[20:55] <natrium> if the top or the sides are close to or touch plastic case, i get no gps fix
[20:56] <Laurenceb> the plastic is detuning it
[20:56] <Laurenceb> those small things are very narrow band
[20:56] <natrium> do you think it's possible to tune it somehow?
[20:56] <Laurenceb> it only just covers L1, anything in the vicinity with permitivity !=1.0 will detune it badly
[20:57] <Laurenceb> hmm you need a foam case
[20:57] <natrium> :S
[20:57] <natrium> what do you think is a safe distance to keep?
[20:57] <Laurenceb> or try and retune it
[20:58] <Laurenceb> but that's be rather hard without the right kit
[20:58] <Laurenceb> I could do it for you maybe
[20:59] <Laurenceb> safe distanct maybe 1.5 or 2 times the thickness of the dielectric
[20:59] <edmoore> that is a small patch!
[20:59] <natrium> edmoore, indeed & it's active too
[20:59] <natrium> one of the smallest in the world
[20:59] <natrium> Laurenceb, hmm
[20:59] <edmoore> I will take that out of context
[21:00] <Laurenceb> so over 10mm
[21:00] <Laurenceb> which kind of defeats the object
[21:00] <natrium> edmoore, XD
[21:00] <natrium> Laurenceb, btw, do you still want the venus chips that do not work above 18km?
[21:01] <natrium> i got the 10Hz ones
[21:02] <Laurenceb> yeah I guess
[21:02] <Laurenceb> if they get a fix
[21:02] <natrium> sure, they do
[21:04] <Laurenceb> nice, inside?
[21:04] <Laurenceb> this is with the sarantel ants?
[21:04] <natrium> yeah
[21:05] <natrium> although i do not have any spare sarantels for you
[21:05] <Laurenceb> they do samples
[21:06] <Laurenceb> have you tested the performance?
[21:06] <Laurenceb> is it laggy?
[21:07] <natrium> dunno, sorry
[21:07] <Laurenceb> doesnt matter
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[21:12] <Laurenceb> lassen iq is almost as laggy is sirf2
[21:12] <Laurenceb> apparently ublox5 in air mode is very responsive
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[21:17] Nick change: G8KHW_2 -> G8KHW
[21:20] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking of thrying this out http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=560
[21:20] <Laurenceb> maybe have it as a secondary payload as a repeater, and bounce packets off it
[21:22] <Laurenceb> theres 2 things that worry me - crystal drift and the fact its a transparent link
[21:23] <stilldavid> I've got a couple of the 9600 baud versions, never did get them to work
[21:23] <Laurenceb> the basic CC1100 can be put into a frequency cal mode
[21:23] <Laurenceb> did you pull SLEEP low ?
[21:23] Action: Laurenceb read about issues on the forums
[21:23] <stilldavid> I did, I read through everything on both datasheets about a dozen times
[21:23] <Laurenceb> hmm
[21:23] <Laurenceb> complain?
[21:24] <stilldavid> all the forum posts, put an o-scope on it, gave up.
[21:24] <stilldavid> I might take another look at them.
[21:24] <Laurenceb> hmm
[21:25] <Laurenceb> I strongly suspect theres a chipcon IC under that tin shield
[21:25] <stilldavid> I was using one at ttl levels, and one at rs-232, though
[21:25] <Laurenceb> now if only they released schematic and firmware for that avr...
[21:26] <Laurenceb> well you've discouraged me a bit... but some of the forum range tests sound very good
[21:26] <Laurenceb> theoretical range is ~800Km
[21:26] <stilldavid> I'll take another look at them tonight with a fresh mind (it's been a few months) and report back
[21:26] <Laurenceb> thanks
[21:26] Nick change: G8KHW -> G8KHW_Away
[21:27] <stilldavid> where do you get 800km?
[21:28] <Laurenceb> theoretically - with 14dBi yagi on the ground
[21:28] <stilldavid> and what sort of antenna on the balloon?
[21:28] <edmoore> When was the last time theory worked?
[21:28] <Laurenceb> 1/4 wav
[21:28] <edmoore> it doesn't on a cloudy day anyway
[21:28] <Laurenceb> hehe
[21:29] <Laurenceb> well using the range tests I get >30Km
[21:29] <stilldavid> I'm studying for my ham licensce here in the states - test is on Saturday, so pardon my n00bishness
[21:29] <Laurenceb> good luck
[21:29] <stilldavid> thanks :) it's a pretty simple test for the technician class
[21:30] <stilldavid> I came across this post from a few years back: http://deathstar.asa.utk.edu/pipermail/chat/2007-November/001695.html
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[21:31] <Laurenceb> hehe
[21:31] <stilldavid> what sort of 433 units was he referring to, do you know?
[21:31] <Laurenceb> well everyone talking there is here
[21:31] <gordonjcp> stilldavid: good luck with it ;-)
[21:31] <stilldavid> gordonjcp: thanks, I'm hitting the books and sample tests pretty hard!
[21:33] <Laurenceb> hmm is 2.4GHz 10mw legal for airbourne?
[21:34] Action: Laurenceb is thinking altimeter
[21:37] <Laurenceb> but the 4.3GHz band is meant for altimeters
[21:37] <Laurenceb> stilldavid: can you see under the shielding?
[21:37] <Laurenceb> on the transceiver
[21:38] <stilldavid> Laurenceb: haven't looked, but I can take pics. Still at work, it's early afternoon here
[21:38] <stilldavid> I have a desoldering iron, too ;)
[21:38] <Laurenceb> dont bother desoldering it :P
[21:38] <Laurenceb> well unless you want to
[21:39] <Laurenceb> I was just wondering if you could see at the side
[21:39] <stilldavid> I'll see and report back. I think it's pretty well covered though.
[21:39] <Laurenceb> thanks, dont damage it tho :P
[21:40] <Laurenceb> if its chipcon then if should be possible to stick cutsom firmware on the avr
[21:41] <Laurenceb> well.. even if it isnt it should, but the chipcon ICs can adjust their PLL to track the module they're talking it
[21:45] <Laurenceb> if you're transmitting 1200baud then you need to do some form fo frequency tracking
[21:46] <Laurenceb> bbl
[21:55] <rjharrison> This payload looks a bit metaly for my liking http://www.flickr.com/photos/meteotek08/3330738299/in/set-72157614770919393/
[21:55] <rjharrison> Guys in spain
[21:55] <edmoore> that's been a source of conversation for some months now
[21:55] <edmoore> I seem to remember us telling gerard that ast year!
[21:57] <rjharrison> Cool, It takes me a while to catch up
[21:57] <rjharrison> :)
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[22:47] <Laurenceb> I've got down to -25C with peltiers
[22:48] <Laurenceb> but they work better with high voltage ~16V
[22:48] <Laurenceb> I was using an ATX supply - only 12V
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[23:00] <rjharrison> Just a quicky james been playing with the gps code
[23:00] <rjharrison> client even
[23:00] <rjharrison> need a gps =0 at the top
[23:00] <rjharrison> just where the sim=0
[23:00] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[23:00] <jcoxon> oh okay
[23:00] <rjharrison> Cool
[23:01] <rjharrison> I'm just off to bed
[23:01] <jcoxon> oh okay
[23:01] <rjharrison> I'll have a look at the client tomorrow to log all the data to callsign.php files
[23:01] <rjharrison> or callsign.txt
[23:02] <rjharrison> I'll use you posing function though some chars might need escaping
[23:02] <rjharrison> your posting
[23:02] <rjharrison> nights
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[23:40] <natrium> i spent so much time yesterday trying to figure out why the 12V line was shorted to GND on the 2nd atlantic halo flight computer
[23:40] <natrium> even desoldered some suspect components
[23:40] <natrium> turns out it was a short in the PCB itself
[23:40] <natrium> was easy to fix with a blade :S
[23:41] <Laurenceb> ooh nasty
[23:41] <Laurenceb> yeah I read the "disclaimer" from gold phoenix
[23:41] <natrium> hard to see
[23:41] <Laurenceb> some of my batchpcb board have been a bit dodgy, but no shorts
[23:41] <natrium> yah, could always order electrical testing
[23:42] <natrium> but it's more expensive
[23:42] <natrium> i did it for some nintendo ds cards i manufactured
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[23:46] <Laurenceb> hmm I'm sure you can get dry ice here fairly easily
[23:47] <Laurenceb> I have a friend who runs a small organic beef business, he uses dry ice all the time
[23:47] <natrium> cool
[23:47] <Laurenceb> probably worth asking some butchers in the local area
[23:47] <natrium> i can get it at local welding supplier :P
[23:48] <Laurenceb> well I'm off, cya all
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 9 2009