highaltitude.log.20090327

[00:01] <shellevil> Might be interesting to do a flight wwithout gyro, and with, and compare
[00:03] <Laurenceb> theres a continuous self test onboard the gyro
[00:03] <Laurenceb> it gives a status bit out in the return message
[00:03] <Laurenceb> (mlx90609)
[00:08] <shellevil> ah
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[00:21] <Tigga> fergusnoble: I was thinking of tinkering with the prediction website. It doesn't seem to be in the svn - shall I just go ahead and be careful about maintaining a working version?
[00:22] <fergusnoble> Tigga: yeah, its only on the webserver
[00:22] <Tigga> I was going to add some sort of re-run on the page with the google map
[00:22] <fergusnoble> just copy index.php to something else and edit that until it works
[00:22] <fergusnoble> awesome
[00:22] <Tigga> might also make the -789 lat thing a bit more official
[00:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Character-Options-4055W-Bladestar/dp/B0013UO6S8/ref=sr_1_139?ie=UTF8&s=kids&qid=1238113502&sr=1-139
[00:26] <Laurenceb> I was playing about with one of those earlier
[00:26] <Laurenceb> quite interesting, just uses an IR receiver module and 2 leds on the body
[00:27] <Laurenceb> then on on the transmitter
[00:27] <shellevil> interesting
[00:27] <Laurenceb> it can avoid obsticles and hover near the ceiling quite well
[00:28] <Laurenceb> we got a camera out and took a look, it seems to using time devision
[00:28] <Laurenceb> so the Tx send out pulses then inbetween it pulses the side led
[00:29] <Laurenceb> a few times a second it pulses the vertical one
[00:29] <Laurenceb> the ir receiver seems to be logic out, so it must use the duration of the pulse out from the module to guage intensity
[00:30] <Laurenceb> there a uC and lipo cell inside, guessing the motors are on pwm channels
[00:30] <Laurenceb> I'm guessing the ir module goes into an input capture unit
[00:31] <Laurenceb> pitch/roll seems to rely on the hinged blades for stability
[00:31] <shellevil> cheap shit. And lots of design to make it all work for a fiver.
[00:32] <Laurenceb> theres thick alu foil on the ends of the blades, presumably for increased stability
[00:32] <Laurenceb> yeah its very well designed
[00:32] <shellevil> the way to go
[00:32] <shellevil> noisy?
[00:32] <Laurenceb> you basically set the hover height from ceiling with the tx
[00:32] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:33] <Laurenceb> then fly it with left right forward backwards referenced to the tx position, but it will overwride control inputs if it gets near obsticles
[00:34] <Laurenceb> the Tx takes a stupid number of batteries and even then doesnt appear to charge the lipo cell very well
[00:34] <Laurenceb> guess they skimped on proper charging
[00:36] <shellevil> http://www.ecofuss.com/maggen-develops-new-type-of-wind-turbines/
[00:37] Action: shellevil wants an eeepc with a thumbstick. And a middle button
[00:37] <Laurenceb> nice
[00:37] <Laurenceb> theres got to be tons of profit margin with those things
[00:38] <Laurenceb> I'm guessing << £5 to make
[00:38] <shellevil> yeah
[00:38] <shellevil> maybe a fiver is fair - given the controller and box and everything
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[00:43] <Laurenceb> yeah, and packaging
[00:44] <Laurenceb> it comes with a nice box and spare blades
[00:44] <Laurenceb> but no batteries
[00:44] <Laurenceb> apparently theres only a linear reg in the tx, and it uses 2 lipo cells
[00:45] <Laurenceb> I'd say £5 in bulk, plastic molding could get expensive, but they seem to have reused a generic case for the packaging
[00:47] <Laurenceb> but the thing itself is literally built with about $0.50 of components
[00:47] <Laurenceb> - control wise
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[00:57] <Laurenceb> reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SADARM
[01:18] <Tigga> fergusnoble: you know henry was doing that thing with the safe landing polygon aaaaages ago - do you know if any of that still exists?
[01:18] <Tigga> strikes me it'd be quite useful for the auto-predict email jobby
[01:18] <Tigga> just missed ed...
[01:18] <fergusnoble> Tigga: i think it basically doesnt exist
[01:18] <Laurenceb> theres landing polygon code on the wiki
[01:19] <Tigga> ooh
[01:19] <fergusnoble> it was coded quite quickly and was for pic so might as well rewrite it
[01:19] <Tigga> (topic is broken - link should be wiki.ukhas.org.uk/#ukhas_prize_2009 without a www)
[01:19] <Laurenceb> hallam planned to develop it with towns as "exclusion zones" and the ability to plan ahead and ascend through altitude ranges where you would end up outside the polygon
[01:20] <Laurenceb> but IIRC he only got as far as the polygon
[01:20] <Tigga> yeah - I was thinking of strapping it to the landing predictor so it sends us a pretty email if we have a good window
[01:20] <Laurenceb> anyway I'll search for polygon code...
[01:20] <fergusnoble> Tigga: are you implementing the auto prediction stuff now?
[01:21] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:aerosol_code
[01:21] <Laurenceb> ita in there
[01:22] <Tigga> not right now
[01:22] <Tigga> oooh - ta
[01:22] <fergusnoble> Tigga: as rob has already done some work on that, I just need to integrate it
[01:22] <Tigga> yeah - I've seen the thing that looks over 4 days
[01:22] <fergusnoble> he implemented the good/no good logic in the c
[01:22] <Tigga> I was thinking of making a separate button for that
[01:23] <Tigga> really? awesome
[01:23] <fergusnoble> Tigga: its going to be run from cron
[01:23] <Tigga> tbh - I think a visual output is still useful
[01:23] <Laurenceb> Tigga: that code takes a kml file with the cutdown polygon
[01:24] <Laurenceb> dont have a polygon on my, youd have to draw it in google earth
[01:24] <Tigga> brb - got to pop into college....
[01:24] <fergusnoble> yeah, sure, the emails will contain a link to the predictor map
[01:24] <fergusnoble> and i have some ideas about how to flexibly select ranges of times and display them together
[01:27] <Laurenceb> hehe http://www.vegetariansareevil.com/
[01:30] <shellevil> I'd wonder about a simple bitmap rather than poly
[01:30] <shellevil> but...
[01:31] <shellevil> as your average uncertainty is what - +-30km horizontal or so at the least from cutdown, so there isn' tmuch point going higher resolution than that
[01:32] <Laurenceb> poly is pretty easy
[01:32] <shellevil> yeah
[01:32] Action: shellevil is lazy.
[01:34] <shellevil> poly is pretty much required if you want the whole of europe
[01:34] <shellevil> Or rather tthe left coast
[02:13] <natrium42> i accidentally the whole europe
[02:25] <Laurenceb> hmm that bladestar thing is from the same company that make robosapien
[02:37] Action: Laurenceb contemplates a slam algorythm
[02:37] <Laurenceb> not sure what usable range on the ir sensor is
[02:37] <Laurenceb> probably not much
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[04:00] <Laurenceb> hmm nice http://futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
[04:00] <Laurenceb> argg I should get some sleep :P
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[07:35] <jcoxon> morning
[07:44] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
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[07:54] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[07:56] <edmoore> morning jcoxon
[07:56] <edmoore> all wel?
[07:56] <edmoore> l
[07:56] <jcoxon> yeah, had a cold all week, slowly recovering
[07:56] <jcoxon> you?
[07:56] <edmoore> the default fill of this room has ratcheted up by about 3
[07:56] <edmoore> yes not bad thank you
[07:57] <edmoore> good to hear about the cold
[07:57] <jcoxon> it was mean - had me hiccuping for about 4 hours on weds
[07:57] <jcoxon> very strange
[07:58] <edmoore> wow
[07:58] <edmoore> odd
[07:58] <jcoxon> any launches this weekend?
[07:58] <edmoore> nope
[07:58] <edmoore> too windy
[07:58] <jcoxon> there were plans?
[08:00] <jcoxon> interesting the guys who launched the rogue zp balloon are launching again 18th April
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[08:02] <jcoxon> bb in an hour
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[11:57] <jcoxon> this makes me sad - finally got a really cheap touchscreen for my gumstix goliath, get the goliath out of its box and for somereason the regulator has failed
[11:57] <jcoxon> whats even more annoying is its a stupidly tiny regulator which i could never hope to replae
[11:57] <jcoxon> replace*
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[14:42] <SpeedEvil> Damn. Missed opportunity. Free gas!
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> Of course, when next doors were digging their sewer up, they would go through the gas main,.
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[15:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> hello everyone
[15:49] Action: SpeedEvil quacks.
[15:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> sent an email diamond point requesting a GPS unit ;-)
[15:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> radiometrix sent out the transmitter
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[16:16] <aLeXBrEtOn> guys
[16:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> just had an idea
[16:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> I'm wondering if we could put hand-warmers in the payload
[16:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> to keep the electronics nice and warm
[16:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> they work by chemical reaction
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Water may work almost as well. It absorbs lots of heat when freezing.
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> and you don't get the other problem of overheating
[16:23] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah
[16:23] <aLeXBrEtOn> just realised that the handwarmers work by exposure to air
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> that's one sort
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> the other sort has a little metal disk inside a supersaturated solution of ammonium nitrate
[16:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> mm
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> that crystalises on the shock from the disk being clicked
[16:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> aha
[16:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> how about hot water?
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> the other sort are coke or some carbonaceous compound that burns - and these sort seem rare these days.
[16:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> will absorb even more energy
[16:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> we could heat it up and take it to launch in a thermos
[16:25] <aLeXBrEtOn> then put it in some sort of metal sealed container
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> A 2-3cm polystyrene box works well
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Cheap, easy to make.
[16:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah we are gonna ask for a frozen fish box ;-)
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> builders merchant, and ask for any broken sheets of kingspan works too
[16:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> also an alternative
[16:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> some fibreglass insulation will also be included
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> Also. You want to actually do some numbers.
[16:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> what sort of numbers?
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> Watts of heat generated, interior surface area of box, heat transmissivity of box material, thickness of box, outside temp, inside temp.
[16:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> apparently outside temp at 30km altitude is -47 degrees
[16:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> celsius
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> about that.
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> As a 'for example' - a 25cm external box.
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> Area is 6/16ths of a square meter - call it 1/2.
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> Say 2.5cm thick kingspan.
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> Kingspan has a thermal conductivity of 0.02W/m/k
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> so, at 2.5cm, you multiply by 40, to get 0.8W/m^2/K
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> It's half a square meter - so that's 0.4W/K
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> With a difference of 70K, that's about 30W heat leaking outside.
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> However.
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> It's not always needed to keep the payload that 'hot'.
[16:31] <aLeXBrEtOn> where did you get the figure for the thermal conductivity?
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> -20C is easily tested in your local freezer.
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: see http://www.mauve.plus.com/bedroom-wall.jpg
[16:32] Action: SpeedEvil has been doing _way_ too much of this shit.
[16:32] <aLeXBrEtOn> that's fibreglass
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[16:32] <aLeXBrEtOn> won't the box be made of polystyrene?
[16:32] <aLeXBrEtOn> we need a figure for that
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> I've also got slightly worse spec fibreglass on other parts, and kingspan on other parts, and ...
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> Typical polystyrene is about twice that - 0.04 or so
[16:33] <aLeXBrEtOn> wikipedia disagrees :/
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> But consider that you can probably live with the payload at -20C or so, that only leaves you 30C differnence.
[16:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> got 0.08W/m/K
[16:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> for polystyrene^
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> expanded?
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> it will vary depending on density.
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> stuff for insulation use is typically 0.04 or so - unless it's been blown with exotic chemicals, then it's 0.03
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> And taking hte above hypothetical box, that takes the 30W heat leak down to 15W.
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> And you're probably using maybe 5W or so, so that's down to 10W
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> and you're not up there for very long, so ...
[16:36] <aLeXBrEtOn> mmmmm
[16:36] <aLeXBrEtOn> figure for expanded polystyrene appears to be 1/28
[16:36] <aLeXBrEtOn> or 0.035
[16:36] <aLeXBrEtOn> so
[16:37] <aLeXBrEtOn> we'll need to check the box-getting that on sunday
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> easy to check.
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> Make up a little box of the stuff, well-sealed at the corners
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> put a bag of hot water inside, leave a couple of hours, measure new temp of water
[16:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> great ;-)
[16:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> now, we gotta work out the watts
[16:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> voltage x amps
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[17:02] <aLeXBrEtOn> yo
[17:02] <aLeXBrEtOn> DRebellion
[17:02] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, hi
[17:02] <aLeXBrEtOn> got an email from radiometrix
[17:02] <aLeXBrEtOn> they sent out the transmitter =)
[17:02] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, yay :)
[17:02] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, what exactly do they need in terms of a 'report'?
[17:03] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, just link them the blog and flickr?
[17:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> no
[17:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> more than that
[17:03] <DRebellion> ; (
[17:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> something that can be published in an electronics magazine as promotion for their product
[17:03] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, ah right
[17:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> I'll take care of it ;-)
[17:03] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, what about dp?
[17:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> they also want to be advertised on the school website or our wiki or somewhere
[17:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> no response from dp
[17:04] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, i'll stick an advert on our blog
[17:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> and the wiki
[17:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> just a link
[17:05] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, yes
[17:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> k
[17:08] <aLeXBrEtOn> damn what is that manager doing!
[17:08] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, ehehe
[17:14] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, is the blog link ok?
[17:14] <DRebellion> (it's not a real link ; P )
[17:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> wtf?
[17:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> get it on the wiki
[17:16] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, it's on both man
[17:16] <aLeXBrEtOn> k
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[17:35] <SpeedEvil> Also - a label on the side
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[17:51] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:52] <DRebellion> Laurenceb, afternoon
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[18:13] <shellevil> you want to tell future sponsors - look - we had 20000 hits, and all of them had our previous sponsors name in.
[18:15] <Laurenceb> http://208.116.9.205/10/content/16684/1.jpg
[18:17] <DRebellion> shellevil, we've never done this before - so we can't back a statement like that up.;
[18:18] Action: shellevil notes the fifth word in the previous sentance.
[18:19] Action: DRebellion feels confused
[18:19] <shellevil> in future
[18:19] <shellevil> if you get 20000 hits this time
[18:19] <DRebellion> shellevil, hopefully :)
[18:19] <shellevil> for your next missions, if you want stuff, you want to be able to tell people you approach that the previous sponsors got this much exposure
[18:20] <DRebellion> shellevil, how much exposure can we expect for a launch?
[18:20] <shellevil> Depends.
[18:20] <shellevil> talk about it on IRC, get a few dozen hits.
[18:21] <shellevil> Get a couple of photogenic pupils involved, get a slow day and a short story in the BBC website, or a local or even national paper, ...
[18:21] <DRebellion> shellevil, we'll probably hype it up with the local paper
[18:21] <shellevil> Of course, it's not fundamentally expensive stuff you're probably looking for.
[18:22] <DRebellion> shellevil, indeed
[18:22] <shellevil> Unless you decide to get much more ambitious.
[18:27] <Hiena> Ooooohhh...I see shiny polar curves and 21 L/D ratio with non-laminar profile. My theory was right...
[18:29] <Laurenceb> 21?
[18:29] <Laurenceb> sounds good, whats this on?
[18:30] <Hiena> It's a flying wing with a 3.4 AR.
[18:32] <Hiena> With an extended wingspan (7.8 AR) it has 34 L/D.
[18:33] <Hiena> But have to check with different profiles and with a real modell.
[18:34] <Hiena> Also, i'm kind of cheated using the profile at high Re number. At the root i have 9*10^6 Re and at the profile was designed for 10^6.
[18:35] Nick change: DRebellion -> sbasuita
[18:36] Nick change: sbasuita -> sbasuita_
[18:36] Nick change: sbasuita_ -> sbasuita__
[18:36] Nick change: sbasuita__ -> sbasuita
[18:37] <Laurenceb> what
[18:37] aLeXBrEtOn (n=Alexande@client-80-5-40-149.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc:
[18:37] <sbasuita> Apologies for the nick registering spree ; P
[18:39] <Hiena> Anyhow, the pressure distribution is according my calculations.
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[18:56] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:58] aLeXBrEtOn (n=Alexande@client-80-5-40-149.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:58] <aLeXBrEtOn> our blog has an interesting new post ;-)
[18:59] <aLeXBrEtOn> alienproject.wordpress.com
[18:59] <jcoxon> hehe, thats one way of advertising
[19:02] <jcoxon> aLeXBrEtOn, you are doing well on getting free stuff - i'm impressed
[19:02] <aLeXBrEtOn> thanks
[19:02] <aLeXBrEtOn> if we get a free GPS I will be really happy
[19:03] <jcoxon> that will be impressive
[19:03] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, free arduino!
[19:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> *sigh*
[19:03] <jcoxon> found out about funding from your school yet?
[19:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> will be tricky
[19:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> may blag for free batteries
[19:03] <sbasuita> jcoxon, yes! We got as much as we need.
[19:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> will be a great PR stunt for energizer
[19:04] <sbasuita> jcoxon, it was basically a 5 minute chat with the head of the Science Club - and he said "give me a shopping list"
[19:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah
[19:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> we have one, but we are waiting for news on free things
[19:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> tomorrow I will also call the local paper
[19:04] <sbasuita> That is, after hyping up the Physics department, and Tech
[19:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> they will definitely do a story on us
[19:04] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, you really think so?
[19:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> nothing happens in this town ;-)
[19:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> if spanish students make international news
[19:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> we can make local news ;-)
[19:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> maybe South Today or something
[19:05] <jcoxon> guys, do you not think you should get your payload together then contact them
[19:05] <jcoxon> they'll be more interested in a launch day and results
[19:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> ofc
[19:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> but just to know if they like the idea
[19:06] <jcoxon> fair enough
[19:06] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, you know, we haven't actually posted what the hell ALIEN is doing on the blog yet.....
[19:06] <aLeXBrEtOn> well, you do the honours
[19:06] <aLeXBrEtOn> I have no mouse
[19:06] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, 0_o
[19:06] <aLeXBrEtOn> has been stolen
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> mousekeys
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> Unless they pulled it since I last used windows
[19:09] <sbasuita> SpeedEvil, prepare for a fanboy rant...
[19:10] <jcoxon> oh dear - what OS do you run sbasuita ?
[19:10] <jcoxon> let me guess - Ubuntu
[19:10] <sbasuita> ; D
[19:10] <aLeXBrEtOn> Mac OS here ;-)
[19:10] <jcoxon> aLeXBrEtOn, OS X?
[19:11] <aLeXBrEtOn> indeed
[19:11] <aLeXBrEtOn> 10.4
[19:11] <jcoxon> i'm not sure you can fanboy rant about ubuntu - perhaps debian
[19:11] <sbasuita> jcoxon, I was referring to aLeXBrEtOn
[19:11] <sbasuita> of course, my comment stopped his steaming fury in its tracks
[19:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> no, I tolerate windows
[19:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> just like the US tolerated the USSR in the cold war for a bit
[19:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> sorry, had history last lesson
[19:12] <jcoxon> sbasuita, i apologies
[19:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> it sticks in my head ;-)
[19:12] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> anyone here doing Earth hour?
[19:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> it's so pointless
[19:13] <sbasuita> jcoxon, you should see him in English: "Prepare for the might of communism to rain down upon your capitalist dictatorship" *flicks ink from fountain pen upon my writing*
[19:13] <aLeXBrEtOn> let's not go into this
[19:14] <aLeXBrEtOn> you know you're wrong, and it's not relevant to highaltitude
[19:15] <jcoxon> he has an argument that supporst communism and provides a practical way of applying it to today taking into account mankinds inherent selfishness?
[19:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> yes, he is constantly jogging my hand as I write
[19:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> anyway
[19:15] <sbasuita> jcoxon, no, he usually takes the capitalist side. I just fell asleep halfway through writing my message, and mixed them up.
[19:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> for the payload box
[19:15] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, your dad has secured fish?
[19:15] <jcoxon> haha - i was looking forward to a second Marx
[19:15] <jcoxon> oh well
[19:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> is an entire box better than lots of boards stuck together?
[19:16] <aLeXBrEtOn> currently boards are a lot easier to get hold of
[19:17] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, don't want the hassle
[19:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> what hassle?
[19:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> for a start we can make the box to our specs
[19:17] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, glue
[19:17] <sbasuita> duct tape
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> A box can be assembled out of boards in literally 3 minutes.
[19:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> oh no...glue!
[19:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> ;-)
[19:17] <sbasuita> hehe
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> 10 minutes, if you want it to fit nicely.
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> 40 minutes if you use dovetails to hold it together :)
[19:18] <aLeXBrEtOn> duct tape is a pleasure and privilege to use anywy
[19:19] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, nah, I like the dovetail joint idea
[19:19] <aLeXBrEtOn> why?
[19:19] <aLeXBrEtOn> you quadruple the time
[19:19] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, yes but it's just better
[19:19] <sbasuita> you know it makes sense
[19:19] <aLeXBrEtOn> not really
[19:20] <aLeXBrEtOn> duct tape can withstand over 9000 N of force
[19:20] <sbasuita> ...
[19:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> cutting dovetails will just be unnecessary hassle for not that much added srtength
[19:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> consider it doesn't have to be THAT strong
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> Err - the dovetails was a joke :)
[19:23] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah I was just wondering how you would cut them into polystyreme
[19:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> aha...this is interesting
[19:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> got a meteorology textbook
[19:25] <aLeXBrEtOn> has a table of temperature of the earth's atmosphere at various altitudes
[19:25] <aLeXBrEtOn> from 0 to 32km above sea level
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[19:25] <SpeedEvil> NASA has all that sort of stuff.
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> If you can find it
[19:25] <sbasuita> It annoys me when google does a better job at searching a website than the site's own search features
[19:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> heg
[19:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> this is a good textbook, though a little old
[19:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> I guess that stuff doesn't change much
[19:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> 'Meteorologie Generale'
[19:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> from the french national meteorology school
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> I've got a textbook that shows pluto rotating the wrong way
[19:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> haha
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> It is rather old.
[19:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> nvm, this is THE textbook they had for teaching meteorology
[19:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> it's colder at 16km than at 32...
[19:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> interesting
[19:29] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, your dad's by any chance?
[19:32] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, hey, gonna get some dinner
[19:32] <sbasuita> aLeXBrEtOn, mind finishing the "about the project" post?
[19:35] <aLeXBrEtOn> OK
[19:35] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah my dad's
[19:41] <aLeXBrEtOn> brb
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[20:03] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: yoo've been using the ocrtex M3 ?
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: not yet alas - see earlier pictures of bedroom walls.
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> but reading a lot about it.
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> And doing timed psuedocode, and ...
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> so I might be able to answer questions.
[20:05] <Laurenceb> I'm just wondering about getting an arm board
[20:06] <Laurenceb> do you have jtag?
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> I do, why,.
[20:06] <Laurenceb> what sort?
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> I like the RS232 bootloader
[20:06] <Laurenceb> right
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> the openmoko debug board - it's got a JTAG port on it
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> RS232 ROM bootloader even
[20:06] <Laurenceb> haha ok
[20:07] <Laurenceb> what priver do you use for the jtag?
[20:07] <Laurenceb> *driver
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> I haven't as of yet used it.
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Integrated-Circuits/ST-Microcontrollers/STM32-Primer/80672/kw/stm32
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> I've got one of these
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> haven't used it beyond the internal games for a bit
[20:11] <Laurenceb> that has a bootloader installed?
[20:14] <Laurenceb> lots of people have been suggesting the LPC series
[20:14] <Laurenceb> thast what CUspaceflight use
[20:15] <natrium42> aLeXBrEtOn, my company can sponsor a lassen iq + patch antenna, if you need one
[20:15] <sbasuita> natrium42, that would be awesome! What company do you work for?
[20:16] <natrium42> electrobee.com
[20:17] <sbasuita> natrium42, we are in need of a GPS; I'd love to accept your offer on behalf of the team.
[20:18] <natrium42> ok, PM me your address
[20:18] <natrium42> it will go today :)
[20:20] <natrium42> this is the unit --> http://natrium42.com/blog/?p=31
[20:20] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/blog/?p=45
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I don't know exactly what it has installed.
[20:25] <Laurenceb> I'm tempted to go for an LPC board
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I was referring to the internal bootloader. Pull a pin high, and you get the ROM bootloader on serial on a couple of pins.
[20:25] <Laurenceb> maybe from sparkfun
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: as in masked, can't be changed.
[20:25] <Laurenceb> right
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> I think it has a USB bootloader on
[20:25] <Laurenceb> oh, thats in ROM on the M3?
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:26] <Laurenceb> nice
[20:26] <Laurenceb> is there a linux application that talks to it?
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> I haven't got that far yet, I read the datasheet - and it looked easy to do
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> the protocol
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't actually go and look
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[20:30] <Laurenceb> gnu arm works ok tho?
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - as I understand it yes - but I haven't got that far :(
[20:31] <Laurenceb> fair enough
[20:31] <Laurenceb> it'd be nice to have an entire toolchain running in linux
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> Pity there isnt' a configurable MMU on most of the STM32 parts, otherwise you could run (SLOWLY) from external RAM.
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> run linux
[20:34] <jcoxon> evening natrium42
[20:35] <Laurenceb> the olimex jtag appears to work with linux
[20:40] <natrium42> you jcoxon
[20:40] <natrium42> sorry i am off to the mail & to tennis
[20:40] <natrium42> bbl
[20:40] <jcoxon> np
[20:49] Action: shellevil ponders play-by-mail tennis.
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[20:50] <Laurenceb> not sure it would catch on
[20:52] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7968860.stm
[20:52] <Laurenceb> I was picturing something with a wind turbine on top from the headline
[20:53] <Laurenceb> like this: http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007-2-21/Windmill-Sailboat.jpg
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[20:59] <shellevil> a small folding wind-turbine and batteries'd easily beat that though
[21:01] <aLeXBrEtOn> hehe
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[21:11] <Laurenceb> javascript:openImageWin("/images/content/307076main_superpressureballoonatflight_1600-1200.jpg")
[21:11] <Laurenceb> woops
[21:11] <Laurenceb> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/307071main_superpressureballoonatflight_428-321.jpg
[21:12] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, i'm guessing that thing is pretty big
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[21:12] <Laurenceb> 22million cubic feet
[21:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/303648main_image_1265_428-321.jpg
[21:29] <shellevil> this is for mars?
[21:29] <Laurenceb> the moon
[21:29] <shellevil> oh.
[21:29] <Laurenceb> I'm guessing those wheel mounts are telescopic
[21:30] <shellevil> Someone should tell them there isn't air on the moon :)
[21:30] <Laurenceb> I think the front is a pressureised section
[21:30] <Laurenceb> with an airloock on the back
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[21:32] <shellevil> I was meaning re: the balloon
[21:32] <shellevil> I was assuming the one was carrying the other for some reason
[21:58] <Laurenceb> hmm comms to the lassen iq seem to work
[21:58] <Laurenceb> I've just tried resetting the BBRAM
[21:58] <Laurenceb> theres a slight delay, probably onboard the lassen
[21:58] <Laurenceb> ~2 seconds
[21:59] <Laurenceb> before I was sending the wrong parity data, might have screwed things up
[21:59] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, is it generally a nice interfacE?
[22:00] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, how does it work? Just a regular stream of data?
[22:00] <Laurenceb> const char bbram_wipe_string[5] PROGMEM={0x10,0x1E,0x4B,0x10,0x03};
[22:00] <Laurenceb> is what you need :P
[22:00] <sbasuita> hehe
[22:01] <Laurenceb> http://www.mibbit.com/pb/xkbPur
[22:01] <Laurenceb> thast my lassen code
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[22:15] <Laurenceb> looks like I'm pretty much ready for launch
[22:20] Action: shellevil is almost ready for dinner.
[22:20] <shellevil> well - after-dinner snack.
[22:20] <shellevil> all the way up, or a short hop?
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[22:21] <shellevil> all the way up - or a short hop?
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> a few Km again
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[22:22] <Laurenceb_> maybe next weekend... not sure
[22:22] Nick change: Laurenceb_ -> Laurenceb
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[22:29] <natrium> ohai
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[23:21] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[23:21] <Laurenceb> any chance you could get me that video? sorry to harrass you :P
[23:21] <natrium42> video?
[23:22] Action: natrium42 is intrigued
[23:22] <Laurenceb> yeah we swap videos
[23:22] <Laurenceb> /s
[23:22] <Laurenceb> - mini rogallo takeoff
[23:22] <natrium42> hehe, i see
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[23:33] <edmoore> Laurenceb: there?
[23:33] <Laurenceb> yep
[23:34] <natrium> edmoore, yes, we are waiting for the video
[23:38] <edmoore> cuspaceflight.co.uk/rogallo.AVI - raw footage - will only keep it there for a coupla days as it's ~120Mb. Straight off the camera card which I now have back.
[23:38] <edmoore> Laurenceb / natrium : knock yourselves out
[23:38] <edmoore> metaphorically
[23:38] <Laurenceb> thanks, I'm grabbing it
[23:42] <Laurenceb> cool, got it
[23:44] <edmoore> rotating it is an exercise best left for the reader
[23:44] <Laurenceb> hehe
[23:44] <edmoore> well, that combined with my rotation plaugin crashing iMovie
[23:44] <shellevil> mplayer -vf rotate 3
[23:44] <shellevil> or something
[23:44] <Laurenceb> running xp atm
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[23:47] <edmoore> Laurenceb: cuspaceflight.co.uk/madsen.jpg
[23:47] <edmoore> he watched lift-off from a bunker 220m away
[23:47] <Laurenceb> nice
[23:47] <edmoore> says it was... well i guess you can guess
[23:47] <Laurenceb> hes the author?
[23:48] <edmoore> fail
[23:48] <Tigga> that's an awesome photo
[23:48] <edmoore> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=madsen+pirie&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
[23:48] <Laurenceb> http://www.adamsmith.org/key-people/people/dr-madsen-pirie-20070110667/ ?
[23:49] <edmoore> Laurenceb: it would be unlikely that there were two different people who shred the same name and looked very similar
[23:49] <edmoore> :p
[23:50] <Laurenceb> competitive free markets ?
[23:50] Action: shellevil shares the name of a polar bear expert.
[23:51] <shellevil> And was once invited by email onto a polar expedition.
[23:52] <Laurenceb> whats he doing next to a soyuz then :P
[23:53] <edmoore> it's a hobby
[23:53] <edmoore> he was the first brit to sign up for a suborbital flight
[23:53] <Laurenceb> oh wow
[23:53] <Laurenceb> with virgin galactic?
[23:53] <edmoore> Space Adventures
[23:53] <Laurenceb> ok... dont they sell soyuz flights?
[23:53] <edmoore> yes
[23:54] <edmoore> that's why he was there
[23:54] <edmoore> all the SA customers got to go and see Charles Simonyi go up
[23:54] <Laurenceb> whats he flying on?
[23:54] <edmoore> I don't think they know. They've just done a waiting list
[23:54] <Laurenceb> I see
[23:54] <edmoore> he was there with Larry and Sergey, apparently.
[23:56] <edmoore> Tigga: lol at Philip Guildford
[23:57] <Tigga> better late than never...
[23:57] <natrium> that's what she said
[23:57] <Laurenceb> oh god
[23:58] <Tigga> it's only two sentances
[23:58] <Laurenceb> I'm pretty much ready for another launch now
[23:58] <edmoore> too late anyway
[23:58] <Laurenceb> seems to be fixed...
[23:58] <Tigga> aye - it's not as good as RCF's anyway
[23:58] <Tigga> :P
[23:59] <edmoore> If Carlsberg did references, they'd probably employ Philip Guildford to write them
[00:00] --- Sat Mar 28 2009