highaltitude.log.20090326

[00:00] <Laurenceb> oh yes
[00:00] <Laurenceb> http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/35618/Bootloader21_20080510.tar.gz
[00:00] <Laurenceb> my life is complete :P
[00:09] <Laurenceb> - really nice bootloader now has linux support
[00:12] <shellevil> :)
[00:12] <shellevil> for what?
[00:12] <shellevil> avr?
[00:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:14] <Laurenceb> mihahah
[00:14] <Laurenceb> make bootload
[00:15] <Laurenceb> makefiles are nice
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[00:18] <Laurenceb> wd edmoore
[00:18] <Laurenceb> erm wb
[00:18] <Laurenceb> arrrggg
[00:22] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb
[00:23] <edmoore> I am actually about to crash, got a reasonable amount of work to do tomorrow. For some reason, supervision work, though not as hard as exams questionbs, as more stressful, as it's for a supervision. odd.
[00:23] <Laurenceb> can I ask a quick question
[00:23] <Laurenceb> will I fry a servo with 8.4v from lipos, if the specs say 7.2v nimh pack ?
[00:34] <Laurenceb> think he fell asleep :P
[00:34] <hallam> Laurenceb: no
[00:35] <hallam> they're pretty forgiving wrt voltage
[00:35] <hallam> in my experience (which is nowhere near as extensive as ed's)
[00:35] <Laurenceb> ok
[00:35] <Laurenceb> sounds good
[00:36] <Laurenceb> hmm am I barking up the wrong tree here? I'm planning to improve the reliability of the radio by periodically probing it with a test command
[00:36] <hallam> why not periodically reset it
[00:36] <Laurenceb> it should reply by toggling the CTS line, if it doesnt no data is sent and the watchdog should reset it
[00:36] <hallam> shortcuts a few branches of the fault tree
[00:37] <Laurenceb> erm... you mean improves reliability
[00:37] Action: Laurenceb finds the fault tree hard to visualise
[00:38] <Laurenceb> is it Deciduous?
[00:38] <hallam> well, it means fewer things to go wrong, which probably means better reliability, though not always
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[00:44] <shellevil> What a fun concept.
[00:44] <shellevil> Deciduous fault trees.
[00:44] <shellevil> Most of the faults fall off in winter.
[00:44] <shellevil> 7.2V NiMH pack is 7.2V nominal
[00:44] <hallam> except icing-related faults
[00:44] <shellevil> this is 7.2/1.2 = 6 cells
[00:45] <hallam> okay, off to america
[00:45] <hallam> night all
[00:45] <shellevil> Wave.
[00:45] <Laurenceb> cya
[00:45] <Laurenceb> have fun stateside
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[00:45] <shellevil> np: 'Coming to america' soundtrack.
[00:45] <shellevil> 6*1.5 (NiMH - fresh off charge) = 8
[00:45] <shellevil> err
[00:45] <shellevil> 9
[00:45] Action: Laurenceb is listening to greek music on limewire
[00:50] <Laurenceb> ok thats higher than 2*lipo
[00:51] <Laurenceb> that futaba winch servos looks good then, just so expensive
[00:51] <Laurenceb> £115
[00:53] <Laurenceb> from kbits
[00:54] <Laurenceb> in my experience thats about the cheapest place to buy decent servo kit
[01:03] <Laurenceb> how do I send any ascii character in ubuntu?
[01:11] <gordonjcp> Laurenceb: from what?
[01:12] <Laurenceb> minicom
[01:12] <gordonjcp> fuck a bunch of minicom
[01:12] <gordonjcp> use gtkterm
[01:12] <Laurenceb> haha ok
[01:14] <Laurenceb> how do I send an ascii char then?
[01:15] <Laurenceb> gordonjcp: ?
[01:17] <gordonjcp> hmm, can't remember
[01:17] <gordonjcp> hold right alt and type the code on the numeric pad, or something
[01:17] <Laurenceb> go tit ok
[01:18] Action: gordonjcp -> bed
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[03:28] <SteamAtom> Anyone around?
[03:28] <natrium> hey SteamAtom
[03:28] <natrium> most of the brits are probably sleeping :)
[03:28] <SteamAtom> Hi Alexei, how's it going
[03:29] <natrium> good, and you?
[03:29] <natrium> we decided to move launch to fall :S
[03:29] <natrium> since we still don't have permission and season is over in 1 month
[03:29] <natrium> gives us extra time too so that we don't need to rush things
[03:30] <SteamAtom> Ahh yes that will get multiple vehicles ready too, which can improve the number of streams you can catch
[03:30] <SteamAtom> Good plan
[03:31] <SteamAtom> Permission from whom?
[03:31] <natrium> minister of transport --> http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/PART6/602.htm#602_42
[03:32] <natrium> since we are over 115 cu ft
[03:32] <SteamAtom> Oh what pain
[03:32] <natrium> how hard is it to launch from the US?
[03:32] <SteamAtom> I'll have to read that another time, which I want to, as I am on a mobile phone irc app
[03:32] <natrium> i am not that far from the border
[03:33] <natrium> Buffallo & Niagara Falls NY
[03:33] <natrium> oh, okay
[03:33] <SteamAtom> Super easy, as long as you're less than 12 lg
[03:33] <SteamAtom> Lb
[03:34] <natrium> hmm, might be a good option then
[03:34] <SteamAtom> You don't even have to tell anyone
[03:34] <natrium> whereabouts in US are you?
[03:34] <SteamAtom> We did out of respect for safety tho
[03:34] <natrium> oh, excellent
[03:34] <natrium> our contact in the government is unresponsive :S
[03:34] <SteamAtom> I'm in Louisville Ky but I grew up in Rochester ny
[03:35] <SteamAtom> Ugh
[03:35] <SteamAtom> Govt
[03:35] <natrium> yeah
[03:35] <natrium> especially canadian govt :)
[03:35] <natrium> louisville is a bit far
[03:35] <natrium> rochester is close
[03:36] <SteamAtom> I'd be happy to help any way I can, Bill Brown is often in upper Ohio too
[03:37] <SteamAtom> You are lucky in that you have more time under the jet stream, it only came over tn about 8 times in a season
[03:37] <natrium> it's good to be self-employed as i could go any day :)
[03:38] <natrium> so the plan for now is test the systems better
[03:38] <natrium> james will launch the ballast tank on totex
[03:38] <natrium> i am going to test iridium phone on totex also (with picture downlink)
[03:39] <SteamAtom> Excellent plan. What's the planned ballast total
[03:39] <natrium> 4-5 kg i think
[03:39] <SteamAtom> I would make up a temperatur controlled fan chamber for dry ice
[03:39] <natrium> i guess 4, if we have to keep it under 12 lb
[03:40] <natrium> hmm, sounds like a good idea
[03:40] <SteamAtom> The Ds1890s go down to -60c tho they dont say they will
[03:40] <natrium> did you do that for your payloads too?
[03:40] <SteamAtom> Ds1820
[03:40] <natrium> cool, good to know
[03:40] <SteamAtom> Cant eemember the nber right now
[03:41] <natrium> yeah, DS18S20 or something
[03:41] <SteamAtom> Yeah, its far more likely to kill or change electronic and mechancal performance than low presure
[03:42] <natrium> for flight computer i specifically selected parts that work at -50C
[03:42] <SteamAtom> And its so cheap to do, $15us of dry icewould last for 36hours at -50
[03:43] <natrium> but there are components which are not rated to that temp
[03:43] <SteamAtom> Good
[03:43] <natrium> like SPOT or iridium phone
[03:43] <natrium> also not sure how sensitive HF transmitter will be
[03:43] <natrium> but we will have time to test it locally now
[03:43] <SteamAtom> Exactly, gotta test them, and decide what temp to set a heater setpoint
[03:44] <natrium> we would like to go without heaters as it saves battery
[03:44] <SteamAtom> That rockmite, is it crystal controlled?
[03:44] <natrium> hmm, not sure
[03:44] <SteamAtom> I saw a pic on the site, it looked like it
[03:45] <SteamAtom> If so, it could be pretty severely affected, I will send you some recordings of ours
[03:45] <natrium> cool, thanks
[03:46] <natrium> maybe we could replace it with a better clock generator
[03:46] <SteamAtom> You may get away with good insulation, but it might b just as heavy as batts
[03:46] <natrium> i have seen nice ones with temperature compensation
[03:46] <SteamAtom> Or just put the crystal in its own styrofoam oven
[03:46] <SteamAtom> Ea
[03:46] <SteamAtom> Yes
[03:47] <natrium> what about putting some resistive wire against the crystal chip?
[03:47] <natrium> and then a foam case around it
[03:47] <SteamAtom> Painting the box flat black helped store solar heat
[03:47] <natrium> then we only heat a small volume
[03:47] <SteamAtom> Thats a good isea
[03:47] <SteamAtom> Id try that one
[03:47] <natrium> :)
[03:48] <natrium> the idea is to have two phases for the mission: normal and low power
[03:48] <SteamAtom> I also found a great thermos bottle that was light and so well insulated that the electronics kept themselves warm
[03:49] <natrium> normal is 4 days, then we switch to low power for 30 days
[03:49] <SteamAtom> While on ground?
[03:49] <natrium> or in the sea :)
[03:49] <SteamAtom> Haha
[03:50] <natrium> it must wash up somewhere eventually...
[03:50] <natrium> with any luck within 30 days
[03:50] <SteamAtom> :-)
[03:50] <SteamAtom> Well gonna hit the hay here
[03:50] <natrium> any reason you insulated the ballast?
[03:50] <natrium> oh, ok
[03:50] <SteamAtom> Oh yes
[03:50] <natrium> thanks for the infos
[03:50] <SteamAtom> A stupid one
[03:51] <SteamAtom> The FAA reg states that density of the box must be less than X
[03:52] <natrium> haha, wow
[03:52] <SteamAtom> And the define X by the weight divided by the area of the smallest exterior side
[03:52] <natrium> insane
[03:53] <SteamAtom> So a 3L bottle of liquid has an end on the bottom that exceeds it
[03:53] <SteamAtom> So I justvput it in a bigger box
[03:53] <SteamAtom> it wouldnt change the safetynof getting hit really at 500 knots
[03:54] <natrium> rules are rules :S
[03:54] <natrium> you also had radar reflector, correct?
[03:55] <SteamAtom> Ok night Alexei! No, we relied on the hf antenna to show up
[03:55] <natrium> nite, thanks again!
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[03:55] <natrium> whoa, he can type quickly on iphone
[03:56] <natrium> i suck at the touchscreen keyboard
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[06:58] <jcoxon> morning all
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[07:02] <jcoxon> morning rjharrison
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[15:31] <Laurenceb> hello
[15:31] <shellevil> helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
[15:31] Action: shellevil sighs.
[15:31] <shellevil> crumbs --
[15:32] <Laurenceb> haha
[15:32] <Laurenceb> in your keyboard?
[15:32] <shellevil> yes
[15:33] <Laurenceb> :P
[15:33] Action: Laurenceb launches a balloon at hallam's plane
[15:34] <Laurenceb> under the flight path from heathrow here...
[15:36] <Laurenceb> I've got the radio module working with reset commands now
[15:36] <Laurenceb> you send 0x05 and it resets, also if its been reset deliberately theres no bootup message
[15:37] <shellevil> you have a seperate radio avr?
[15:37] <Laurenceb> the bootup message is there so if anything else goes wrong and its resetting/getting no data you still have a signal
[15:37] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:37] <Laurenceb> its on a board built into the back of the ntx2
[15:38] <shellevil> you could always log the output to the radio to SD, to see if it's stuck?
[15:38] <shellevil> if you've got free IO on the other micro
[15:38] <Laurenceb> nope
[15:38] <shellevil> or eeprom I mean
[15:38] <Laurenceb> every single pin is taken
[15:39] <Laurenceb> there is I2C eeprom
[15:39] <Laurenceb> thats where I got all the data from
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[15:45] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8975
[15:46] <Laurenceb> wonder how good that is
[15:47] <shellevil> dunno
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[15:51] <aLeXBrEtOn> hello everyone
[15:51] <aLeXBrEtOn> can anyone in the UK advise me as to which frequency NTX2 transmitter I will be needing?
[15:52] <aLeXBrEtOn> is it 433mhz?
[15:53] <gordonjcp> what are the options?
[15:54] <gordonjcp> 433 sounds right, there's an ISM band there somewhere
[15:54] <aLeXBrEtOn> tandard frequencies: 434.075MHz, 434.650MHz and 458.700MHz
[15:54] <aLeXBrEtOn> Custom frequencies available in 433MHz (EU) and 458MHz (UK) band
[15:55] <aLeXBrEtOn> that's the ones available?
[15:55] <aLeXBrEtOn> not sure which to order
[15:57] <aLeXBrEtOn> can anyone help?
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> 433.650 is IIRC the one used typically by most people.
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> Either will work just fine
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[16:03] <SpeedEvil> (75,650,700)
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> slightly different tuning on radio is all.
[16:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> 434.075 is the one we need apparently
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[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Woo.
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Call from passport people - callerID '0100' - they're starting pocessing my passport.
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[16:10] <aLeXBrEtOn> score
[16:10] <aLeXBrEtOn> bagged a free transmitter =)
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> coo
[16:10] <aLeXBrEtOn> gonna try my luck with a free GPS
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> l
[16:10] <aLeXBrEtOn> nothing to be lost ;-)
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Only my usual comments about free stuff.
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> Beware of free stuff that you may not be able to later easily buy.
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> you tread on an irreplacable free thing, and though it was free, the time you'll spend reengineering for a different one isn't free.
[16:13] <aLeXBrEtOn> gotta call tomorrow
[16:13] <aLeXBrEtOn> the manager is in a meeting
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[16:13] <aLeXBrEtOn> they didn't say no though ;-)
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[17:36] <Laurenceb> http://www.gpsdaily.com/reports/SSTL_Led_Team_Investigates_GNSS_Signals_For_Remote_Sensing_999.html
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[17:53] <aLeXBrEtOn> guys, 3 metres of nylon cord is plenty right?
[17:56] <natrium42> between chute and balloon?
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[18:10] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:10] <natrium42> hey laurence
[18:14] <aLeXBrEtOn> no, just overall
[18:14] <aLeXBrEtOn> figuring out how much of everything we need to buy
[18:14] <natrium42> nylon cord is not that expensive :P
[18:15] <natrium42> do you need to count every screw and bolt?
[18:15] <natrium42> pehaps just give yourself a budget for misc things
[18:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> yep pretty much
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[18:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> because my teacher is buying the stuff
[18:15] <aLeXBrEtOn> so we need every last part written down, with cost and supplier
[18:16] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-145-224-2.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:16] <natrium42> i would put more than a few meters between chute and balloon
[18:16] <Laurenceb> Ornithoscelidaphobia
[18:17] <natrium42> since that would reduce swinging and may prevent balloon remains from tangling with chute
[18:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> would you say 5m is overall enough?
[18:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> for the entire setup
[18:18] <natrium42> can you even buy that little?
[18:19] <natrium42> just budget 10 meters, that's definitely enough
[18:19] <natrium42> but i don't think that you can buy that little :P
[18:19] <natrium42> unless it's heavy duty rope or something
[18:20] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:20] <jcoxon> hey all
[18:20] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
[18:20] <natrium42> Hi Hiena
[18:21] <jcoxon> got an email from the BBC today about a doing a science show on high altitude balloons
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:21] Action: SpeedEvil ponders how big a balloon you'd need to lift a cameraman.
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> A good cross-sectional interview - edmoore, Laurenceb, ... and aLeXBrEtOn and what'sname
[18:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> mm
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> (not that I'm leaving people out on purpose, just thoughts)
[18:23] <natrium42> jcoxon, ooh, awesome
[18:23] <aLeXBrEtOn> nice
[18:23] <Laurenceb> sounds cool
[18:23] <Hiena> ' evening!
[18:23] <aLeXBrEtOn> radiometrix asked for a report
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> 'we're contemplating a transatlantic balloon vs schoolkids'
[18:23] <aLeXBrEtOn> they said they may publish in an electronics magazine to promote their product
[18:23] <jcoxon> aLeXBrEtOn, yeah i owe them
[18:23] <jcoxon> as well
[18:23] <aLeXBrEtOn> gonna try and get a free GPS ;-)
[18:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> blag about how tight the budget is
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> And how you're having to give up turkey twizzlers for it.
[18:24] <jcoxon> good luck
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[18:25] <Hiena> Anybody want to make me a workig 56k communication?
[18:25] <Hiena> +n
[18:26] <Hiena> I'm getting tired, with the PIC and the serial port stupidity.
[18:26] <natrium42> hehe
[18:26] <natrium42> would be cool
[18:26] <Laurenceb> aLeXBrEtOn: you could use some photos off the wiki
[18:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah
[18:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> gonna phone them up
[18:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> called today but apparently the manager was in a meeting or something
[18:28] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:aerosol
[18:28] <Laurenceb> theres a few shots there, but not very good
[18:29] <aLeXBrEtOn> nice stuff
[18:30] <jcoxon> wow i'm impressed with DHL, for once they'll actually redeliver as they missed me the next day - everyone else won't do it for a couple of days
[18:31] <Laurenceb> one of my cameras is broken and I lent the other to my mum so I cant get any photos
[18:32] <aLeXBrEtOn> heh want one of my cameras?
[18:32] <aLeXBrEtOn> I have 8, mostly old and crap film ones
[18:33] <Laurenceb> its ok thanks
[18:33] <Laurenceb> I can pick up something good for ~£40
[18:35] <jcoxon> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMega
[18:35] <jcoxon> mwhahahaha
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[18:37] <Laurenceb> silly
[18:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> hoho
[18:38] <Laurenceb> get an ARM
[18:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> drafting a big ballooning shopping list ;-)
[18:38] <jcoxon> so many uarts
[18:38] <Laurenceb> uarts are bad practice :P
[18:39] <Laurenceb> you should use spi and i2c
[18:40] <Laurenceb> IMO once you go past the atmega168 its time to move onwards and upwards
[18:40] <Laurenceb> the core is underpowered relative to the rest of the uC
[18:40] <aLeXBrEtOn> gents...
[18:40] <aLeXBrEtOn> do you use lithium or ultimate lithium?
[18:40] <aLeXBrEtOn> http://www.photoglossy.com/default.asp?part=AAL4
[18:40] <aLeXBrEtOn> would these be OK^
[18:40] <aLeXBrEtOn> ?
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[18:41] <SpeedEvil> there is the new 'cheaper' lithium sort.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> I don't think anyones played with them
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> the previous sort are actually rated to -40C
[18:41] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah I see the cheap ones
[18:41] <aLeXBrEtOn> are they any worse?
[18:41] <aLeXBrEtOn> quite a lot cheaper ;-)
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> are those the cheap ones?
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> chase up the manufacturers website for a datasheet for each
[18:44] <aLeXBrEtOn> no those are the expensive ones
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> ìink?
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[18:46] <aLeXBrEtOn> the cheap ones don't seem to exist on energizer's website
[18:46] <Hiena> Hmm...is there any limitation between the delay of the two async. serial data packet? I means the minimum is the lenght of the stop bit. But is there any other restriction?
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> nope
[18:46] <aLeXBrEtOn> http://www.bicsuperstore.com/Energizer-e2-Lithium-Batteries-AA-by/M/B000RC08OE.htm
[18:46] <aLeXBrEtOn> the cheap ones^
[18:46] <aLeXBrEtOn> lithium e2
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> without more data, the line voltage just sits at the value after the stop bit
[18:47] <jcoxon> in regards to batteries definitely go for the ones that are recommended
[18:47] <jcoxon> they have been 100% reliable
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> Umm.
[18:48] <jcoxon> http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.100-2045.aspx
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> Those are $13/4
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> or about 9 quid/4
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> that's not especially cheap.
[18:48] <jcoxon> and get AA rather then AAA the power to weight ratio is better
[18:48] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, yet my communication is broken...
[18:48] <aLeXBrEtOn> the camera takes AAs anyway
[18:48] <Hiena> I hafta recode the whole mess.
[18:48] <aLeXBrEtOn> we'll go for the most expensive ones
[18:48] <Laurenceb> arg my machine is timewarping again
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: odd
[18:48] <G8KHW> the enigiser ulimate lithiums that we use are about £1 each ($1.50)
[18:49] <jcoxon> aLeXBrEtOn, its just one less thing to go wrong
[18:49] <G8KHW> each
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> http://www.photoglossy.com/default.asp?part=AAL4 - is 6 quid for 6
[18:49] <Laurenceb> a load of files have reverted to early 2008 :-/
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[18:59] <SpeedEvil> Well... Keep an eye on ones reverting to 2010 - maybe it averages out.
[19:00] Action: SpeedEvil edits lotterynumbers.txt
[19:09] <Laurenceb> hmm
[19:09] <Laurenceb> i2cmem.h:14: warning: function declaration isnt a prototype
[19:09] <Laurenceb> what could be giving me these errors?
[19:09] <Laurenceb> - theres hundereds of lines of this
[19:10] <Laurenceb> I just moved an entire project off windows and I'm trying to compile it on ubuntu
[19:11] <Laurenceb> any clues?
[19:13] <Laurenceb> void init_i2c();
[19:13] <Laurenceb> why is that not a prototype?
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[19:17] <Laurenceb> nvm got it
[19:17] <Laurenceb> ubuntu gcc needs void adding
[19:35] <Laurenceb> ok.. it compiles but its really big :-/
[19:35] <Laurenceb> and I have the latest lib ect
[19:48] <Hiena> Groan.
[19:49] <Hiena> Will you mind, if i yust simply kills the moron, whom wrote the gpsd?
[19:50] <Hiena> More than one wasted week due that stupid mongrel...
[19:57] <Hiena> Okay. I need some pudding to calm down.
[20:00] <Laurenceb> ;P
[20:04] <Laurenceb> looks like I'll have to stik with windows
[20:04] <Laurenceb> ubuntu leads to hex files
[20:06] <Hiena> Well, at leas you got a correct serial port handling.
[20:08] <Laurenceb> its too big for the uC
[20:09] <Laurenceb> oh well
[20:09] <Laurenceb> just have to unse windowz
[20:12] Laurenceb (n=laurence@dyres221-35.surrey.ac.uk) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
[20:26] Laurenceb (i=83e3dd23@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d602d62f42abe518) joined #highaltitude.
[20:27] <Laurenceb> bah windows
[20:29] <aLeXBrEtOn> ermn gents
[20:29] <aLeXBrEtOn> you sure we can get a ds18s20 sensor for free?
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> I've got a bag of ds18b20s
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> worst case, I could send you one if you drop me a SAE.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> if they won't sample that particular one, look for variants that will suit
[20:32] <Laurenceb> oh well at least windows is 1KB smaller
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> ?
[20:32] <Laurenceb> gcc
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> gcc on both?
[20:32] <Laurenceb> it works better on windows
[20:33] <aLeXBrEtOn> is DS18S20+ virtually the same?
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> gcc version, or differeing fags
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> fglags
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
[20:33] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> 18S20 is fixed 10 bit
[20:33] <Laurenceb> ubuntu is based on 4.x
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> 18B20 is 9-16 bits (but some of the bits are a lie)
[20:33] <Laurenceb> windows on 3.x
[20:34] <Laurenceb> they made 4.x support the new xmega core, and screwed it up at the same time apparently
[20:34] <Laurenceb> so its not as neat at optimising the size
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> you might investigate applicable flags
[20:34] <Laurenceb> yeah oh well
[20:34] <Laurenceb> windows work
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> or go to 3.x
[20:34] <Laurenceb> I tried the windows makefile and its smaller than the generic one I had
[20:35] <Laurenceb> but still 1KB larger flash image
[20:35] <Laurenceb> I cant be bothered to look at it any deeper
[20:36] <Laurenceb> right I'm off, cya laters
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[21:31] <edmoore> fergusnoble: thoughts
[21:32] <edmoore> also, madsen just emailed to say that he touched the rocket and that the other billionaires asked lots of questions about his CUSF shirt.
[21:35] <Laurenceb> which rocket?
[21:36] <shellevil> which billionaires?
[21:37] <shellevil> and $us, or $zim? :)
[21:37] <shellevil> I should have bought that hundred billion dollar note on ebay. But it was rather boring.
[21:42] <edmoore> Laurenceb: soyuz
[21:42] <edmoore> the one that took Charles Simonyi up today
[21:42] <edmoore> and $us
[21:42] <edmoore> he's with the space adventures lot
[21:42] <edmoore> sent back pictures of him with Sergey Brin etc
[21:43] <Laurenceb> who, someone from CU spaceflight?
[21:43] <fergusnoble> edmoore: yeah think we should scratch sat
[21:43] <edmoore> it's a shame proper engineers don't make enough money when they'd appreciate it the most
[21:43] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: no, one of our sponsors
[21:43] <Laurenceb> ah cool
[21:43] <edmoore> he said they watched the launch in a bunker from 220m away, and that it was 'utterly thrilling'
[21:43] <edmoore> I am remarkably jealous
[21:44] <Laurenceb> awsome
[21:44] <fergusnoble> yeah, thats pretty awesome
[21:45] <Laurenceb> in less thrilling news I should be ready for another launch in about a week
[21:45] <shellevil> neat
[21:46] <shellevil> (both of the above)
[21:46] <shellevil> Though I suspect Laurencebs launch may be less spectacular than the above when viewed from 220m in a bunker.
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[22:00] <edmoore> Laurenceb: we might be pretty tied up for a bit
[22:00] <edmoore> but keep working for it
[22:02] <Laurenceb> ok
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: new structure?
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> Or just patching?
[22:02] <Laurenceb> just patching
[22:02] <Laurenceb> I've finished the structural work now
[22:02] <Laurenceb> just working on the code
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> smashing into little bits absorbs crash energy.
[22:03] <Laurenceb> haha
[22:03] <Laurenceb> edmoore: do you have that takeoff video?
[22:03] <edmoore> sorry yes
[22:03] <edmoore> it's on my camera which is now back
[22:04] <Laurenceb> vimeo?
[22:04] <edmoore> i can put it there
[22:04] <edmoore> or send it you direct
[22:04] <Laurenceb> thanks
[22:05] <Laurenceb> just put it up if thats ok
[22:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> hmm, what company shall I register under?
[22:05] <aLeXBrEtOn> for sensor samples
[22:06] <aLeXBrEtOn> may need an adult to do this ;-)
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> Fake company name.
[22:06] <aLeXBrEtOn> lol
[22:06] <aLeXBrEtOn> ALIEN?
[22:06] <aLeXBrEtOn> will they even care/notice/check?
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> Alien enterprises, or something
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> they may deny it if it looks too wacky
[22:07] <aLeXBrEtOn> ALIEN Inc.
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> Technically, I think that's committing some offence
[22:07] <aLeXBrEtOn> woah that's a clothes company^
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> the use of the inc - when you're not an incorporated company
[22:08] <aLeXBrEtOn> I'll get my dad to register tomorrow under his company
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> no need
[22:08] <aLeXBrEtOn> or ALIEN distributions?
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> it's not checked at that level
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> the details are glanced over by someone, if that, and then submitted
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> as long as your company name isn't obviously fake, and you're not ordering hundreds of parts, there is usually little checking
[22:13] <aLeXBrEtOn> what could my end product be?
[22:13] <aLeXBrEtOn> hmmmm
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> USB temperature probe, ...
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> whatever
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> something that it's plausible you might want to build a few thousand
[22:19] <edmoore> fergusnoble: am getting parse errors in google earth on the kml's
[22:19] <fergusnoble> on which kmls?
[22:19] <edmoore> will investigate, but just thought i'd let you know incase you'd modded anything
[22:19] <edmoore> the ones i just generated
[22:19] <fergusnoble> oh, on the predictor
[22:20] <edmoore> from the predictor
[22:20] <fergusnoble> no, didnt change anything there
[22:20] <edmoore> sorry yes
[22:20] <edmoore> ok
[22:20] <edmoore> will have a looook
[22:20] <fergusnoble> it could be if someone was using the predictor at the same time
[22:20] <fergusnoble> then you could get potentially a half overwritten file if you were very very very unlucky
[22:20] <Laurenceb> not me
[22:37] <aLeXBrEtOn> shopping list currently at 165 pounds
[22:37] <aLeXBrEtOn> need a space blanket for insulation
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[22:44] bfirsh (n=ben@scooby.firshman.co.uk) left irc:
[22:50] aLeXBrEtOn (n=Alexande@client-80-5-40-149.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc:
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[23:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.mibbit.com/pb/LHn3RX
[23:26] <Laurenceb> right... thats my new guidance loop
[23:27] <Laurenceb> fairly simple, just weights the wind bins either side of the current altitude
[23:30] <shellevil> :)
[23:30] <Laurenceb> all the eeprom is painted with -126 to start with
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[23:32] <shellevil> What if you land on a boat?
[23:33] <Laurenceb> haha
[23:33] <shellevil> Gps.veast<0.1
[23:34] <shellevil> this is absolute ?
[23:34] <Laurenceb> well that worked very well to detect a tree crash
[23:34] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:34] <shellevil> swinging branches due to wind, or ...
[23:34] <Laurenceb> erm...
[23:34] <shellevil> but probably not going to fire most of the time
[23:34] <Laurenceb> yeah hang on a minute thats not quite right
[23:35] <shellevil> east^2+north^2 <1 or something?
[23:35] <Laurenceb> yeah, but that will eat cpu cycles
[23:35] <shellevil> or the explicit lots of conditionals
[23:36] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:38] <shellevil> also - that '200' - have you investigate the terrain of the launch area and it's sane?
[23:39] <shellevil> and is that meant to be 'descent guidance loop' ?
[23:39] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:39] <Laurenceb> ok... abs seems to produce the shortest code
[23:42] <shellevil> do you want to throw out the lowest velocities too - as well as zero - as they are unlikely to be significant?
[23:43] <Laurenceb> dont follow
[23:43] <shellevil> the NAN check
[23:43] <shellevil> just a thought
[23:44] <Laurenceb> hmm it shouldnt happen
[23:44] <shellevil> also - if(!(Gps.vnorth-Wind_n))
[23:44] <Laurenceb> and as long as its in the range +-pi
[23:44] <Laurenceb> then the filter will recover
[23:44] <shellevil> doesn't that fire if you're going exactly east or west?
[23:45] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:45] <Laurenceb> but thats extremely improbably
[23:45] <Laurenceb> Gps.vnorth is a float
[23:45] <Laurenceb> and theres a fair bit of noise
[23:45] <shellevil> k
[23:46] <shellevil> performance: - you could move the test for landing inside the ground control enabling if
[23:46] <shellevil> but that's pretty minor
[23:47] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah
[23:47] <Laurenceb> http://www.mibbit.com/pb/klx2WB
[23:47] <Laurenceb> thats the guidance loop
[23:47] <shellevil> is there any 'fix valid' signal? is it worth looking at that?
[23:48] <shellevil> what does the GPS do if it loses signal?
[23:48] <Laurenceb> stays with the last position
[23:48] <shellevil> not output position, or continue estimating course?
[23:48] <shellevil> k
[23:48] <Laurenceb> and I think sets velocity to zero
[23:48] <shellevil> some don't
[23:48] <Laurenceb> I've never had it lose lock
[23:49] <Laurenceb> only stop outputting status packets for a few seconds
[23:49] <Laurenceb> which is extremely annoying and hangs the controller
[23:49] <shellevil> I'm not really reading this very critically - only for obvious stupids.
[23:49] <Laurenceb> thanks
[23:53] <shellevil> do you log the control output?
[23:53] <shellevil> to the servo?
[23:53] <Laurenceb> nope
[23:53] <Laurenceb> you could reconstuct it if you wanted
[23:54] <Laurenceb> from the rate ect data thats logged
[23:54] <shellevil> unless you can completely reproduce the internal state from logged stuff, then you risk wondering WTF it did.
[23:54] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:54] <Laurenceb> but that would take a lot of data
[23:55] <shellevil> How fast do you move the servo?
[23:55] <Laurenceb> control loop is at 50Hz
[23:55] <shellevil> yeah - lot of data
[23:55] <Laurenceb> descent loop is at 1Hz
[23:56] <shellevil> the descent loop is where - the control loop is how?
[23:56] <shellevil> (you want to go)
[23:56] <Laurenceb> kind of
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[23:57] <Laurenceb> the descent loop passes the control loop a desired heading
[23:57] <Laurenceb> control loop tries to keep it
[23:59] <shellevil> how do you detect a faulty gyro?
[00:00] --- Fri Mar 27 2009