highaltitude.log.20090322

[00:00] <Laurenceb> explains why theres no obvious effect on the descent rate as well
[00:00] <hallam> although it's a pretty crappy GPS that gets blocked by a parafoil
[00:00] <Laurenceb> yeah the cutdown cable knocks out sats
[00:00] <Laurenceb> it happens on the ground
[00:00] <hallam> Laurenceb: if I were you I'd really try to get some kind of airspeed sensor on it
[00:00] <Laurenceb> hence why I used it for 35MHz as well, keeps cables to a minimum
[00:00] <Laurenceb> hmm ok
[00:01] <Laurenceb> but I know roughly what the airspeed is
[00:01] <Laurenceb> how does it help?
[00:01] <hallam> relatively high speed information on it really helps flight control
[00:01] <hallam> i.e. 1Hz or so
[00:01] <Laurenceb> how can you make use of it?
[00:02] <hallam> control pitch to keep constant indicated airspeed
[00:02] <hallam> losing airspeed information is considered an emergency in aeroplanes, i.e. you land very carefully at the nearest field
[00:02] <Laurenceb> dont have any pitch control on the rogallo
[00:02] <hallam> and it's a really bad emergency in cloud
[00:02] <hallam> well, maybe not so critical then
[00:03] <Laurenceb> it seems pretty stable if thats whats causing the problem
[00:03] <hallam> do you have true heading information rather than ground track?
[00:03] <Laurenceb> nope
[00:03] <Laurenceb> ground track from gps and a rate gyro
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[00:03] <SpeedEvil> Hmm. fldigi build is broken.
[00:03] <Laurenceb> I'm considering finding windspeed
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> configure finds no hamlibs.
[00:04] <SpeedEvil> I get hamlib related build errors
[00:04] <Laurenceb> rather than using wind data recorded from ascent
[00:04] <Laurenceb> if you record ground tracks then fit a circle to them
[00:05] <hallam> the other nice thing about having real airspeed and heading info is that you can work out the wind velocity
[00:05] <hallam> which helps glide planning
[00:05] <Laurenceb> hmm the airspeed is one thing I know quite well
[00:06] <Laurenceb> as is the descent rate
[00:06] <hallam> I wouldn't be so sure that recording it on the way up is super reliable
[00:06] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, don't worry
[00:06] <jcoxon> i'll kick Laurenceb
[00:06] <Laurenceb> hallam: it doesnt appear to be
[00:06] <Laurenceb> ok ok
[00:06] <Laurenceb> what would you link master
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: I'm not only doing this for you :)
[00:06] Action: SpeedEvil also wants to play with it.
[00:07] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if he can get old deaf scanner undeafened.
[00:09] <Laurenceb> hallam: yeah its hard to work out when the sanity check is allowing the wind to be calculated correctly
[00:10] <Laurenceb> but if Im finding the correct times, its off by enough to cause the heading to be out by 25 degrees or more
[00:11] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking onboard estimation may work better
[00:11] <hallam> so how are you estimating the airspeed then?
[00:11] <Laurenceb> from test data
[00:12] <hallam> based on what, descent rate?
[00:12] <Laurenceb> you dont need it actually
[00:12] <Laurenceb> air_vector=gps_vector-wind_vector
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> The rollo cannot turn fast enough to flat spin.
[00:12] <hallam> right
[00:13] <hallam> so given that you don't know the wind vector very well....
[00:13] <Laurenceb> then find atan2 of air_vector
[00:13] <Laurenceb> yes, it screws things up quite a bit
[00:13] <Laurenceb> if you end up outside the circle of poss ground vectors
[00:13] <hallam> anyway I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to see it fly, hope I can be there for the next attempt
[00:14] <hallam> brb
[00:14] <Laurenceb> with your estimate... it really screws up
[00:14] <Laurenceb> but that only happened when the sanity check failed
[00:14] <Laurenceb> cya
[00:14] <Laurenceb> - your ground vectors form a cicle in ground space
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[00:15] <Laurenceb> your estimated wind vector should be in the center of this
[00:16] <Laurenceb> or at least inside
[00:16] <Laurenceb> in my data it seems to be inside when things were woring
[00:16] <Laurenceb> but rather far off the center :-/
[00:17] <jcoxon> hallam, is the flight on still?
[00:17] <hallam> yep
[00:19] <Laurenceb> hmm I'm wondering if I can improve this by using recorded wind, weather model data and circle fitting
[00:19] <natrium42> hallam, get some sleep :P
[00:19] <Laurenceb> ?
[00:19] <Laurenceb> I'm sure hes had plenty
[00:19] <hallam> yeah, not really tired
[00:19] <hallam> besides I have to wait for Fergus to get home in an hour and send me the latest flight code
[00:20] <Laurenceb> natrium42: you should have said that yesterday :P
[00:20] <jcoxon> hallam, is the helium issue sorted?
[00:20] Action: natrium42 still has lots of helium left :/
[00:20] <natrium42> any suggestions?
[00:20] <natrium42> i could talk in high voice all day
[00:21] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, just so that i have to tomorrow morning can i set up your client plese
[00:21] <jcoxon> please*
[00:21] <Laurenceb> sure
[00:21] <Laurenceb> whatdoido
[00:22] <edmoore> right, going to grab some kip
[00:22] <jcoxon> fldigi 3.10
[00:22] <jcoxon> got it?
[00:22] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:22] <jcoxon> okay got my python script?
[00:22] <Tigga> right... sleep for me. see you at 5 hallam!
[00:22] <natrium42> jcoxon, lol --> http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0iYBQsZKupoOBTJq8x6cWA4PRJUYRi1ir
[00:22] <Laurenceb> nope
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[00:22] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=dlistening:client:radioclient3
[00:22] <natrium42> i hope spot guys don't have a huge display of all users
[00:23] <jcoxon> haha oops
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[00:23] <natrium42> jcoxon, are you going to listen in on hallam's launch?
[00:24] <natrium42> do i have to fix0r the trax0r?
[00:24] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: wheres the script
[00:24] <jcoxon> natrium42, yeah
[00:25] <jcoxon> ummm i really need rj to fix his tracker
[00:25] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, that link i just posted
[00:26] <natrium42> ok
[00:26] <jcoxon> which i managed to break on friday
[00:26] <jcoxon> but for now i can still test the client
[00:28] <Laurenceb> callsign?
[00:28] <jcoxon> anything - its just a way of identifying yourself to the sytem
[00:30] <natrium42> so i can put chewbacca?
[00:30] <jcoxon> indeed you can
[00:31] <Laurenceb> socket.error: (111, 'Connection refused')
[00:31] <natrium42> oh neat
[00:31] <jcoxon> is fldigi running?
[00:32] <jcoxon> you need to be running fldigi
[00:34] <Laurenceb> yeah
[00:34] <Laurenceb> I'm running fldig
[00:34] <jcoxon> still getting the error?
[00:34] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:34] <jcoxon> hmmm okay
[00:34] <jcoxon> i'll debug and get back to you
[00:34] <Laurenceb> yeah it cant talk to fldigi over the port
[00:34] <Laurenceb> nice technique tho
[00:35] <Laurenceb> didnt know it could do that
[00:35] <jcoxon> its a new feature
[00:35] <jcoxon> hence why i'm like - get 3.10!
[00:35] <jcoxon> did you apt-get your copy of fldigi?
[00:35] <Laurenceb> it says 3.10
[00:36] <jcoxon> on mac the 3.10 has xmlrpc built in
[00:36] <jcoxon> i'm booting my ubuntu box - i'll test it out
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[00:40] <jcoxon> hallam, what time launching?
[00:42] <hallam> we're intending to leave for Churchill at 5 a.m.
[00:42] <hallam> and definitely try to launch by 7
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[00:42] <jcoxon> okay
[00:42] <natrium42> <hallam> 6 to 7 am tomorrow
[00:43] <jcoxon> i'll be ready by then
[00:43] <hallam> since Ed is leaving at 8 and the helium has to be put away by then
[00:43] <hallam> ok
[00:43] <natrium42> bah, i am slow
[00:43] <jcoxon> great
[00:44] <jcoxon> not sure will have the tracker part fixed by then but will certainly test the clients - data can be view raw here:
[00:44] <jcoxon> http://pegasus4.no-ip.org/~jamescoxon/view.php
[00:46] <jcoxon> guess i could write a simple script to directly send it to my tracker - i'll have a think
[00:46] <hallam> swell :)
[00:46] <hallam> I'll try to get on IRC at the launch site, but might not if time is tight
[00:46] <jcoxon> no worries
[00:46] <hallam> it shouldn't be though, we ought to be prepped
[00:46] <jcoxon> text me when you launch
[00:47] <hallam> what's your number?
[00:49] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, did you compile fldigi from source?
[00:49] <Laurenceb> no
[00:49] <jcoxon> binary off the website?
[00:49] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:49] <Laurenceb> no off the repository
[00:50] <Laurenceb> hallam: its not the sats I dont think
[00:50] <Laurenceb> causing the altitude drops, it changes direction to have the same relationship with the wind
[00:51] <jcoxon> oh wait you are on 64bit aren't you
[00:51] <jcoxon> hence the binary off the website won't work
[00:51] <jcoxon> (cause that has xmlrpc
[00:51] <jcoxon> )
[00:53] <Laurenceb> yeah im 64
[00:54] <natrium42> jcoxon, fixed the tracker i think
[00:54] <natrium42> bbl
[00:55] <jcoxon> okay
[00:57] <jcoxon> hmmm compiling fldigi is a pain
[01:03] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, not sure what to do - either i could change the client to not try and contact fldigi and you set up fldigi youself (which is easy)
[01:03] <jcoxon> or you can compile fldigi with xmlrpc built in
[01:03] <Laurenceb> guess I may as well recompile
[01:04] <Laurenceb> but dont know where to start
[01:04] <jcoxon> i'm nearly done here
[01:04] <Laurenceb> doing what?
[01:04] <jcoxon> compiling it on my ubuntu box
[01:04] <jcoxon> to work out the steps for you
[01:05] <jcoxon> you need to:
[01:05] <jcoxon> install libfltk1.1 and libfltk-dev from the repositries
[01:06] <Laurenceb> k
[01:06] <jcoxon> compile libsamplerate from here: http://www.mega-nerd.com/SRC/download.html
[01:06] <jcoxon> and compile hamlib from here
[01:06] <jcoxon> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/hamlib/hamlib-1.2.8.tar.gz
[01:06] <jcoxon> oh and install libxmlrpc-c3 from the reps as well
[01:07] <jcoxon> and libxmlrpc-c3-dev
[01:08] <jcoxon> so in summary...
[01:08] <jcoxon> .
[01:08] <jcoxon> libfltk1.1, libfltk1.1-dev, libxmlrpc-c3, libxmlrpc-c3-dev from the reps
[01:08] <jcoxon> and compile hamlib and libsamplerate
[01:08] <jcoxon> then fldigi 3.10
[01:12] <Laurenceb> working on it
[01:12] <Laurenceb> *fan blasts away*
[01:14] <jcoxon> okay it works if you follow those steps
[01:15] <jcoxon> i'm off to bed
[01:15] <Laurenceb> hmm libsamplerate fails
[01:15] <jcoxon> night, will be on at 7
[01:15] <Laurenceb> cyas
[01:15] <jcoxon> oh?
[01:15] <Laurenceb> Line 141 : input / output length mismatch.
[01:16] <jcoxon> that i don't know the answer to
[01:16] <jcoxon> mine compiled clean
[01:17] <jcoxon> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259274
[01:17] <Laurenceb> I've got a headache :(
[01:17] <Laurenceb> why cant I use it from the repositories
[01:17] <jcoxon> is it there?
[01:17] <jcoxon> i couldn't find it
[01:18] <jcoxon> right i have to go
[01:18] <jcoxon> night
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[01:31] <Laurenceb> hi fergus
[01:41] <fergusnoble> hello
[01:41] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: what happened with your glider?
[01:41] <Laurenceb> we got it back
[01:41] <Laurenceb> it was in a tree
[01:42] <Laurenceb> looks like the winch servo started slipping due to a knot working itself undone
[01:42] <Laurenceb> it was spirallng down for most of the descent
[01:42] <Laurenceb> I'm still looking at the data
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[01:44] <fergusnoble> awesome
[01:45] <fergusnoble> natrium: did you launch?
[01:45] <hallam> Laurenceb: what happened to the radio in the end?
[01:45] <fergusnoble> i mean that you got it back
[01:45] <hallam> fergusnoble: do you remember which way round the JTAG cable went into the badger?
[01:45] <fergusnoble> match pin 1 on the cable to pin1 on the board
[01:45] <Laurenceb> hallam: I havent looked at the radio yet
[01:46] <Laurenceb> theres no obvious damage
[01:47] <Laurenceb> hallam: theres no constant relationship between the wind and the heading where the altitude slip events occur
[01:47] <hallam> I was hoping not to take it out of the box so I can't look at the board, but just realised I can compare it to the blank pcb
[01:47] <hallam> Laurenceb: crazy
[01:47] <hallam> oh wait, that means it was gps?
[01:47] <hallam> I don't know
[01:47] <Laurenceb> so I'm guessing its sats
[01:47] <Laurenceb> but the angle changes
[01:47] <hallam> Laurenceb: how did you get the landing site position to get it back?
[01:47] <Laurenceb> it appears to be a different angle each time it reoccurs
[01:47] <Laurenceb> foxhunting
[01:48] <fergusnoble> hallam: i think pin 1 is closest to the end of th board
[01:48] <hallam> fergusnoble: the pyro just blew in my face
[01:48] <Laurenceb> leading me to suspect its a different sat each time
[01:48] <fergusnoble> wtf?
[01:48] <Laurenceb> still looking at data tho
[01:48] <fergusnoble> really? you ok?
[01:48] <hallam> yeah I'm fine but this is a bit concerning
[01:48] <hallam> I don't know if we have a spare
[01:48] <fergusnoble> crud
[01:48] <hallam> please start thinking of why it happened
[01:48] <fergusnoble> why was it plugged in?
[01:48] <fergusnoble> ok
[01:48] <Laurenceb> the standard dev of the drop is very low for a stall
[01:49] <hallam> because everything is rigged for flight and rolled up in the box
[01:49] <fergusnoble> ok
[01:49] <fergusnoble> thinking
[01:49] <Laurenceb> you can see real stalls where it enters the turbulent boundary layer and they have higher standard dev
[01:49] <hallam> it blew a minute or two after power on
[01:49] <fergusnoble> oh shizzle
[01:49] <Laurenceb> brb
[01:49] <fergusnoble> erm, you downloaded the new code?
[01:49] <hallam> no, old code still
[01:49] <fergusnoble> if so are you sure you didnt compile in the pyro test?
[01:49] <hallam> haven't reprogrammed it
[01:50] <hallam> haven't even plugged the jtag in
[01:50] <fergusnoble> ok, ill check that it wasnt compiled in last time
[01:50] <fergusnoble> we have a spare sal type cutdown
[01:51] <fergusnoble> but this could potentially spook the nay-sayers
[01:52] <fergusnoble> hallam: have you turned it off since it blew?
[01:52] <fergusnoble> if not, check the pyro status on the radio to see if the software did it
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[01:52] <fergusnoble> also check that the pulldown resistors on the board are wired in correctly
[01:53] <hallam> I turned it off
[01:53] <hallam> didn't want the other one to go
[01:53] <hallam> please check the software very carefully, I will check the pulldowns
[01:53] <fergusnoble> also if it has already been switched off, maybe take out the remaining pyros and then run the board for a min or two and see if any leds light
[01:54] <fergusnoble> which channel went?
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[01:54] <fergusnoble> edmoore: yo
[01:54] <edmoore> hallam: sit rep?
[01:54] <edmoore> (can't sleep)
[01:54] <edmoore> fergusnoble: hi
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[02:09] <hallam> edmoore: potential problem
[02:09] <hallam> pyro just blew in my face while testing badger
[02:10] <hallam> this is pretty bad
[02:10] <edmoore> am on pm to fergus re: it now
[02:10] <hallam> no physical damage apart from to the pyro, but no idea why it happened
[02:10] <edmoore> you're ok?
[02:10] <hallam> yeah I'm fine if a little surprised
[02:11] <hallam> I was tucking the board into the box at the time - I guess it's possible I could have shorted something, but I really don't think so
[02:12] <hallam> I'm not happy launching unless we can definitely figure out what it was
[02:12] <edmoore> agreed
[02:12] <hallam> if we can figure it out - do we have a spare pyro cutdown?
[02:12] <Laurenceb> :-S
[02:13] <edmoore> greg got steve's ones
[02:13] <edmoore> gah, dan even
[02:13] <edmoore> i think there was a spare
[02:13] <edmoore> he got 3
[02:13] <hallam> ah
[02:13] <hallam> I just touched the back of the board
[02:13] <hallam> and the light came on
[02:14] <hallam> corresponding to the one that blew
[02:14] <hallam> yeah there's definitely something funny with the power/pyro board
[02:14] <fergusnoble> hallam: sounds like it could be the pulldown or a bad joint
[02:15] <fergusnoble> ok, yey its not my fault
[02:15] <hallam> right, I'll try to find it
[02:15] <hallam> hehe
[02:15] <hallam> it's repeatable with the badger unplugged too
[02:15] <hallam> not a good thing though
[02:15] <fergusnoble> should do a check for the cutdown test activating anyway though, seeing as its easy to do
[02:15] <fergusnoble> nope, but should be fixable
[02:16] <fergusnoble> now diagnosed
[02:16] <hallam> yes, but it'll probably make a lot of people unhappy
[02:16] <hallam> what do you two think?
[02:16] <fergusnoble> perhaps
[02:17] <fergusnoble> i mean in realistic terms it isnt a direct consequence of rushing and has now been fixed so shouldnt be a problem
[02:17] <fergusnoble> but i dont know if iain and rob will see it like that
[02:18] <fergusnoble> looks like they are pretty keen to scrap the thing if they can
[02:18] <fergusnoble> not sure why
[02:19] <edmoore> sorry was on the loo
[02:19] <edmoore> what is the proposal?
[02:19] <fergusnoble> no proposal, just wondering how the team will take the news about the pyro
[02:20] <fergusnoble> or weather its reason to scrub
[02:20] <edmoore> is the cause of the problem identified?
[02:20] <fergusnoble> yes
[02:21] <edmoore> what was it?
[02:21] <fergusnoble> some effect on the board when its wiggled, proabably dry joint or short
[02:21] <hallam> fault on the power distribution / pyro board
[02:21] <fergusnoble> can be replecated when the badger isnt plugged in
[02:21] <hallam> I'm finding out exactly what it is now
[02:21] <edmoore> ok cool
[02:22] <hallam> fergusnoble: do you know the purpose of the 270R resistors next to the terminal blocks?
[02:22] <hallam> oh duh LEDs
[02:22] <fergusnoble> hehe
[02:24] <hallam> yup it's a dry joint on the pulldown resistor for the 2nd channel
[02:25] <fergusnoble> ok, thats interesting
[02:25] <fergusnoble> i thought i saw a dry joint on the middle pulldown so i went over it with the iron
[02:26] <hallam> haha, maybe it was your fault after all ;) ;) ;)
[02:26] <fergusnoble> is there anything that could cause it to reoccur?
[02:26] <hallam> which end did you go over?
[02:26] <fergusnoble> well, i made pretty sure i fixed it
[02:26] <fergusnoble> it was on the end away from the edge
[02:26] <fergusnoble> i think
[02:26] <hallam> ah no, this is the ground end
[02:26] <hallam> at the edge
[02:27] <fergusnoble> bum
[02:27] <fergusnoble> ok, well you should probably check over the rest of the board
[02:27] <fergusnoble> just to be sure
[02:28] <fergusnoble> and check the badger doesnt run the pyro test code, just for added giggles
[02:28] <edmoore> what of the 3rd pyro?
[02:28] <hallam> haven't called Dan
[02:28] <hallam> assume he's asleep
[02:29] <hallam> it doesn't seem to be in the IfM, anyway
[02:29] <fergusnoble> should look for it, might be in one of the boxes
[02:29] <fergusnoble> oh, right
[02:29] <hallam> was anything else left in your car, Ed?
[02:29] <edmoore> just the balloons and my radio
[02:29] <hallam> the cutdown really worked very well, btw
[02:29] <hallam> I have much more faith in them now
[02:31] <hallam> ah!
[02:31] <hallam> found the third cutdown
[02:32] <hallam> was hiding under the tape
[02:32] <Laurenceb> halllam: sorry to interject, think I've worked it out, theres two different events, gps sat loss on two different sats, causing altitude loss then recovery, and actual stalls. the standard deviation of the real stalls is greater, they are about 4 meters larger and they occur more randomy in the spiral than the gps losses, so it looks like almost everything outside the boundary layer at 800m and below is gps tracking losses
[02:32] <hallam> Laurenceb: well done on the diagnosis
[02:32] <hallam> another reason for actual airspeed data is that for diagnostic purposes :)
[02:32] <Laurenceb> the altitude fluctuations seriously screwed up the extended kalman filter that works out lift and drag coefficients
[02:33] <Laurenceb> causing a sanity check flag to disable a load of code
[02:33] <Laurenceb> that stopped valid wind vectors being loaded from eeprom
[02:34] <hallam> fergusnoble: on further inspection, the resistor itself is squiffy
[02:34] <Laurenceb> but even when valid wind was loaded, it wasnt that accurate - about 3 to 4 m/s off
[02:35] <Laurenceb> the main problem was the knot...grrr I actually meant to CA the knot but forgot in the rush :-/
[02:36] <Laurenceb> so the line was slipping through the servo most of the time and occasionally jamming giving a bit of control
[02:36] <hallam> that's really unfortunate
[02:37] <Laurenceb> yeah, the violent ascent probably did it, nylon lines can unknot very easily I've found
[02:37] <Laurenceb> pretty low friction
[02:37] <fergusnoble> hallam: clarify suiffy
[02:38] <Laurenceb> theres abresion marks on the line where I presume it was slipping through the servo
[02:38] <fergusnoble> *squiffy
[02:38] <hallam> squeezing the resistor itself seems to disconnect it
[02:38] <hallam> (after desoldering it from the board)
[02:38] <hallam> crazy eh
[02:38] <hallam> I'll replace all three
[02:42] <Laurenceb> http://toastytech.com/evil/billsucks.html
[02:45] <fergusnoble> hallam: very strange
[02:46] <hallam> edmoore: problem found and fixed. we have a spare cutdown. now what?
[02:48] <edmoore> hallam: are you happy that everything else servicable?
[02:49] <hallam> I think so. I've tested everything running on batteries and listening on radio.
[02:50] <hallam> I haven't unwrapped any of the lines etc, but I'm assured they're ready to unwind, tie and go
[02:53] <edmoore> hallam: what kind of cutdown is the spare?
[02:53] <hallam> Steve
[02:53] <hallam> edmoore: I also fixed the thing with the rocket board so it doesn't need jtag to boot, it's literally plug-in-to-battery
[02:54] <shellevil> If not up then - good luck all.
[02:54] <hallam> thanks
[02:57] <hallam> brb
[02:59] <hallam> back
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[03:06] <hallam> edmoore: still awake?
[03:06] <edmoore> yes
[03:08] <hallam> I'm using 80km for the cutdown range, does that sound reasonable to you?
[03:08] <hallam> (based on latest prediction and google earth)
[03:09] <Laurenceb> whats the ascent rate and "hover" time?
[03:09] <hallam> 6m/s, 1800s
[03:09] <hallam> the nice thing about a distance-based cutdown is that it compensates for errors in ascent rate
[03:16] <edmoore> hallam: the ascent rate will be high approximate
[03:16] <edmoore> so that is good
[03:16] <edmoore> basically, we'll get a very useful data point out of this flight on dual-balloon systems
[03:18] <edmoore> highly*
[03:19] <plantain_> what's the advantage of two balloons over one?
[03:20] <edmoore> hallam: double-check cutdown parameters?
[03:21] <edmoore> plantain_: you can do a fast ascent to above the jetstream, then release one and slow it right down, almost to a steady float, with the remeianing one
[03:23] <hallam> 26km altitude for 1st cutdown, 80km distance for 2nd, 82km for 3rd
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[03:24] <edmoore> hallam: I would add maybe 10km to the radial distances, based on my sims
[03:24] <hallam> ok
[03:24] <hallam> will do
[03:24] <edmoore> if there's a tangle-fuck and it plummets, you're a bit further out of harms way
[03:24] <edmoore> but there's still plenty of england left
[03:25] <hallam> sounds good
[03:25] <fergusnoble> and we are sure the pilot will deffo burst below 26km?
[03:25] <fergusnoble> are we now using a 500g?
[03:25] <edmoore> 800g
[03:25] <fergusnoble> sorry 800g?
[03:25] <edmoore> is all we have
[03:25] <fergusnoble> yup, good good
[03:25] <edmoore> and with 1kg free lift, it sims to burst at 22km
[03:25] <fergusnoble> i thought we were using the 500g totex
[03:25] <edmoore> 33*
[03:25] <edmoore> clairification: 33km
[03:26] <fergusnoble> which will never make it to 26km with 1kg :)
[03:26] <edmoore> so hallam, the pilot will not on its own have enough lift for the entire train
[03:26] <fergusnoble> it will probably not make it off the ground
[03:27] <edmoore> just maybe 1 kg of lift to add to the system. Or <1kg as goes with cos(theta)
[03:27] <hallam> okay
[03:27] <edmoore> either way, will get interesting numbers
[03:27] <fergusnoble> yup
[03:27] <edmoore> ok definitely going to sleep now unless there's anything else
[03:28] <hallam> sleep well
[03:28] <fergusnoble> all from me, good luck tomorrow
[03:28] <fergusnoble> goodnight
[03:28] <edmoore> night
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[03:28] <fergusnoble> hallam: all set? badger badgered?
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[03:45] <Laurenceb> looks like the rogallo was flying at 13mph with a glide ratio of 2.75
[03:45] <Laurenceb> it should be possible to increase that a bit by moving the c of g forwards a bit
[03:45] <hallam> fergusnoble: having a minor build issue with crossworks v 1.7
[03:46] <hallam> E:/Program Files/Rowley Associates Limited/CrossWorks for ARM 1.7/gcc/bin/ld: $(PackagesDir)/lib/liblpc2000_v4t_a_le.a: No such file: No such file or directory
[03:46] <hallam> looks like it's not expanding PackagesDir
[03:46] <Laurenceb> it uses gcc?
[03:47] <fergusnoble> did you check that there is such a file in packagesdir?
[03:47] <fergusnoble> whatever that it
[03:47] <fergusnoble> *is
[03:47] <hallam> the file is in the crossworks folder/lib
[03:47] <hallam> the only stuff in /packages is a few xml files
[03:47] <hallam> but copying the file there doesn't help
[03:48] <fergusnoble> or perhaps it is confused as libs get put in a different place on mac
[03:48] <fergusnoble> try putting it in a directory called lib under packages as that roughtly what i have
[03:48] <hallam> did
[03:48] <fergusnoble> ok, cool
[03:49] <hallam> didn't work
[03:49] <fergusnoble> changes $(packagesdir) to the expanded path?
[03:49] <hallam> any idea where to set it?
[03:49] <fergusnoble> in the linker settings for the project perhaps
[03:50] <hallam> can't find it there
[03:50] <fergusnoble> i mean dont change the var packagesdir, but change the reference being passed to ld
[03:50] <fergusnoble> so it no longer references $(packagesdir)
[03:50] <hallam> yeah that's what I want to do, but I can't find where it's set
[03:52] <hallam> ok got it, I just edited the project file raw
[03:52] <fergusnoble> ok
[03:53] <fergusnoble> ok, im going to nap for a bit
[03:53] <hallam> ok
[03:53] <hallam> night
[03:53] <fergusnoble> might try and be awake at 7
[03:53] <hallam> thanks
[03:54] <hallam> please have your phone with you in case of emergency :) but I won't call unless nec
[03:54] <hallam> i'm going to reboot to see if my sound card works better in linux
[03:56] <fergusnoble> will do
[04:22] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/42201
[04:22] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/42254
[04:23] <Laurenceb> ^ thats a script to find altitude drop events and estimate pointing of the airframe at the time
[04:23] <Laurenceb> looks like there were two seperate sats being dropped from tracking
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[04:40] <Tigga> mornin' hallam, fergusnoble
[04:40] <hallam> morning
[04:40] <hallam> fergusnoble is asleep I think
[04:40] <Tigga> lazy...
[04:42] <hallam> i'll brb, loo
[04:45] <hallam> k
[04:47] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/42255
[04:47] <Laurenceb> hows that for awsome
[04:47] <Laurenceb> thats gps velocities
[04:47] <Laurenceb> you can see the gusting in the turbulent boundary layer causing spread to the upper right
[04:48] <Laurenceb> that also caused so real stalling
[04:49] <Tigga> righto - is anybody at the IfM with you hallam? I was going to wander down to Churchill
[04:53] <hallam> Ed's coming, we should be able to manage the stuff
[04:54] <Tigga> righto - I'll head churchill way then
[04:54] <Tigga> ciao
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[04:55] Action: Laurenceb zzz
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[06:41] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:20] <jcoxon> right they are filling the balloon
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[08:29] <jcoxon> okay got a track going
[08:29] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/
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[08:40] <plantain_> woah, you're in sweden?
[08:40] <plantain_> I thought you were all british
[08:42] <jcoxon> oh no that was an old trip
[08:42] <jcoxon> scroll over to the uk :-p
[08:43] <jcoxon> plantain_, refresh that page and it'l be happy again, in the right place
[08:44] <plantain_> haha
[08:44] <jcoxon> got the track?
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[08:51] <plantain_> yeah
[08:51] <plantain_> why are there missing waypoints? lost signal at that point?
[08:52] <shellevil> this is hallam/edmoores launch
[08:52] <jcoxon> no they are alternating their format
[08:52] <shellevil> ?
[08:52] <jcoxon> between rtty and dominoEX
[08:52] <jcoxon> but i'm only decoding dominoEX
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[08:52] <jcoxon> oh damn a rogue point
[08:52] <jcoxon> shellevil, yeah it is
[08:52] <shellevil> jco: I thought it was a star-tracker.
[08:52] <shellevil> or is the point to try it during the day
[08:53] <mib_tfpn7l> Hi do you know when will the C.U.S.S balloon will appear ?
[08:53] <jcoxon> it is the star tracker
[08:53] <jcoxon> but it has badger doing the tracking
[08:53] <jcoxon> mib_tfpn7l, CUSF? you mean?
[08:53] <plantain_> looks like it's heading for the sea
[08:53] <mib_tfpn7l> Yes..sorry!
[08:54] <jcoxon> mib_tfpn7l, http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/
[08:54] <jcoxon> ignore the rogue points
[08:54] <jcoxon> going into delete them
[08:54] <jcoxon> raw data is here: http://pegasus4.no-ip.org/~jamescoxon/view.php
[08:54] <plantain_> what's caused them? errors in the transmission?
[08:55] <mib_tfpn7l> Many thanks
[08:55] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:55] <jcoxon> single characters
[08:55] <jcoxon> the normal system usually stops tehm but its broken and i couldn't fix it
[08:55] <jcoxon> m6jcx is where i am in relation
[08:55] <plantain_> so what is this radio system?
[08:56] <jcoxon> wow on sec
[08:56] <jcoxon> need to reposition my antenna
[08:56] <jcoxon> thats better
[08:57] <plantain_> lost signal?
[08:57] <jcoxon> my antenna is a bit directional and i'm in a city
[08:57] <shellevil> what - about 2.5m/s ?
[08:58] <jcoxon> so it needs to repositioned
[08:58] <jcoxon> shellevil, i worked out 230m/min
[08:58] <shellevil> k
[08:58] <shellevil> the target is what - >30km?
[08:59] <jcoxon> points fixed if you refresh
[09:00] <jcoxon> okay we are now in dominoex mode
[09:00] <jcoxon> so they'll be a break
[09:00] <jcoxon> plantain_, sorry, my radio system?
[09:00] <plantain_> yeah, what hardware are you running?
[09:01] <jcoxon> i've got a yaesu ft-817 with a moxon antenna
[09:01] <jcoxon> and a macbook running fldigi and the DLClient
[09:01] <plantain_> and on the balloon?
[09:02] <jcoxon> is Badger board which is an arm flight computer with a radiometrix NTX2 10mW 434.650Mhz radio
[09:02] <jcoxon> and is transmitting in rtty and dominoex formats
[09:03] <plantain_> the badger board is your own design or a commercial product?
[09:03] <shellevil> own design
[09:03] <jcoxon> its edmoores and fergusnoble 's design
[09:03] <plantain_> cool
[09:04] <shellevil> been flown what - a dozen times?
[09:04] <jcoxon> really nice board, seems very reliable
[09:04] <jcoxon> 4 or 5 i think
[09:04] <jcoxon> this is nova10 so it can't be too many
[09:04] <shellevil> oh
[09:05] <jcoxon> rtty is back
[09:05] <jcoxon> 11837m
[09:06] <plantain_> Any idea what height the balloon will blow?
[09:07] <plantain_> looks from here like it might cross the channel
[09:07] <jcoxon> i'm thinking around canterbury
[09:07] <shellevil> Looks like it goes feet wet about 18Km
[09:07] <shellevil> if no cutdown
[09:07] <jcoxon> it has a cutdown
[09:07] <jcoxon> but its a bit funny as its a dual balloon
[09:08] <jcoxon> we shall have to see
[09:11] <shellevil> ok - 26Km first cutdown, then 90, and 92 radial km from launch.
[09:12] <shellevil> 90/92 are cutdown and backup from the second balloon?
[09:12] <shellevil> checking backscroll
[09:13] <jcoxon> cool
[09:13] <jcoxon> yeah i guess so
[09:13] <jcoxon> don't want it drifting too far
[09:14] <plantain_> no friends in france? :P
[09:15] <jcoxon> hehe. might need to make some
[09:15] <jcoxon> right dominoex again
[09:16] <jcoxon> hmmm i'm going to have to prepare an antenna shift
[09:16] <jcoxon> as i face north
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[09:19] Action: shellevil hopes his crude measurement is wrong, as he gets 90Km coming in a blue bit.
[09:19] <plantain_> ever lost one to the channel?
[09:22] <jcoxon> oh yes
[09:22] <jcoxon> many
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[09:22] <jcoxon> okay we are back with data
[09:23] <shellevil> I make 90Km the isle of sheppy
[09:23] <shellevil> probably
[09:24] <jcoxon> its curving west a bit
[09:25] <shellevil> that's assuming the curve stays the same as the last two datapoints where it staarts curving west - 10.5-12km
[09:26] <shellevil> ah - refreshed - more data
[09:27] <shellevil> that makes that point a little east of sheerness then
[09:29] <jcoxon> now into domino
[09:30] <Laurenceb> in the air?
[09:30] <Laurenceb> just got up
[09:30] <Laurenceb> me
[09:30] <shellevil> yes
[09:30] <Laurenceb> altitude?
[09:30] <shellevil> heading for blue water - though should cutdown ok
[09:30] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/
[09:30] <shellevil> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/
[09:31] <shellevil> cutdowns at 26km, 90km radial and 92km radial
[09:31] <shellevil> it's never going to make 26km before the first distance though
[09:31] <jcoxon> yeah i've been thinking that
[09:32] <jcoxon> can't seem to manage to decode teh domino with fltigi
[09:32] <Laurenceb> freq?
[09:33] <Laurenceb> what freq?
[09:33] <jcoxon> 434.647.460
[09:33] <Laurenceb> may have something
[09:34] <jcoxon> should be able to
[09:34] <Laurenceb> ah its still north of me
[09:34] <jcoxon> i got data at 2km alt after launch
[09:34] <Laurenceb> nice
[09:35] <Laurenceb> only 17Km :-/
[09:35] <plantain_> you don't have remote control of the cutdown?
[09:36] <shellevil> based on current track, seems it cutsdown just east of gillingham - over land.
[09:36] <shellevil> west, not east
[09:37] <shellevil> descent is 5m/s or so?
[09:38] <jcoxon> plantain_, no, uplink is hard
[09:40] <Laurenceb> whats the frequecny now?
[09:40] <plantain_> my figuring is somewhere near ashford
[09:40] <plantain_> looks like it's moving quite fast south
[09:41] <jcoxon> 434648
[09:41] <jcoxon> i've got to move my antenna again
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[09:42] <shellevil> It's got to come down pretty sharpish - much less than 5m/s and ...
[09:43] <Laurenceb> got it
[09:43] <Laurenceb> rtty?
[09:44] <shellevil> rtty/dominoex alternating
[09:44] <jcoxon> coming down
[09:44] <Laurenceb> what baud ect ect
[09:45] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: what baud
[09:45] <jcoxon> shift 425 baud 50 asci 7
[09:45] <Laurenceb> I can see the rtty
[09:45] <jcoxon> its domino now
[09:45] <jcoxon> unless you can see henry's rtty which isn't tracking data
[09:45] <Laurenceb> I can see the rtty
[09:46] <Laurenceb> but no modulation
[09:46] <Laurenceb> right
[09:46] <Laurenceb> whats the dominoex specs?
[09:47] <jcoxon> i don't now
[09:47] <jcoxon> i could decode it (nor could henry
[09:47] <Laurenceb> what are you sending tot he tracker?
[09:47] <jcoxon> rtty
[09:47] <jcoxon> but nothing right now
[09:47] <Laurenceb> the 50 baud?
[09:47] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:48] <Laurenceb> my shift is 350
[09:49] <jcoxon> huh?
[09:50] <jcoxon> rtty is back
[09:51] <Laurenceb> certianly 350 shift in the data I'm seeing
[09:52] <Laurenceb> what frequency are you at?
[09:52] <jcoxon> 434649.0
[09:53] <Laurenceb> this is odd
[09:53] <Laurenceb> I have two frequencies very close
[09:54] <Laurenceb> now just one line
[09:54] <shellevil> what speed is it coming down?
[09:54] <jcoxon> 100m /min
[09:54] <shellevil> umm
[09:54] <shellevil> I think that splashes
[09:54] <Laurenceb> sucks it didnt reach altitude
[09:55] <jcoxon> we are clear
[09:55] <Laurenceb> do you see rtty modulation atm?
[09:56] <jcoxon> yes
[09:56] <shellevil> At 15km, that's 150 min ?
[09:56] <shellevil> does that get to france?
[09:58] <shellevil> I'm sure it was at 15km, but it's saying 9 now.
[09:58] <Laurenceb> yetting two very close lines again now
[09:58] <jcoxon> guys got to move to chase the signal
[09:58] <jcoxon> bbiab
[09:59] <Laurenceb> lsb or usb?
[10:00] <jcoxon> usb
[10:00] <jcoxon> damn we are in domino now
[10:01] <Laurenceb> got something at 648.4
[10:01] <Laurenceb> but its not 425 seperatiom
[10:01] <jcoxon> its domino now
[10:02] <Laurenceb> is it reversed levels?
[10:02] <Laurenceb> on fldigi
[10:03] <jcoxon> i'm losing it
[10:03] <Laurenceb> still got it here if this is it
[10:03] <jcoxon> if its domino then yeah
[10:04] <jcoxon> can someone work out a descent rate for me
[10:04] <jcoxon> http://pegasus4.no-ip.org/~jamescoxon/view.php
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[10:05] <Laurenceb> I've just got two carriers about 80 hz apart
[10:05] <shellevil> I make it 10m/s or so
[10:05] <shellevil> 600m/min
[10:05] <jcoxon> rtt is back
[10:05] <Laurenceb> dont see any change
[10:05] <Laurenceb> what frequ/
[10:06] <shellevil> 8m/s
[10:06] <shellevil> which easily is on land
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[10:07] <plantain_> woah, why's it going down?
[10:07] <plantain_> balloon popped?
[10:07] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: what frequency?
[10:07] <shellevil> down to 6m/s on latter data as the air thickens around 9km
[10:08] <shellevil> so 2m/s or so at touchdown?
[10:08] <jcoxon> 434.648.55
[10:09] <shellevil> yeah - 5.5 at 5Km (330m/min)
[10:09] <Laurenceb> got it
[10:10] <shellevil> maybe some balloon debris fell off - falling a bit faster than I think it should
[10:10] <Laurenceb> cant demodulate
[10:11] <jcoxon> i'm having dificulty
[10:11] <jcoxon> 10:10:36,51.1945,0.776213,4132.68
[10:11] <Laurenceb> the seperation keeps changing
[10:11] <Laurenceb> I have 2 lines 350 apart
[10:12] <Laurenceb> at 648.5 +2KHz
[10:12] <Laurenceb> - 2KHz in fldigi
[10:12] <Laurenceb> the rrty is reversed levels?
[10:12] <shellevil> 6m/s at 5-4km
[10:13] <plantain_> heh, that got to germany quickly
[10:14] <Laurenceb> its I'm tied to mains here
[10:14] <Laurenceb> still there if that is it
[10:16] <jcoxon> now domino
[10:16] <Laurenceb> ought to have touched down
[10:16] <Laurenceb> ?
[10:16] <jcoxon> $$Badger,11099,10:12:31,51.1752,0.77855,3540.47
[10:17] <jcoxon> and 51.1548,0.7792;7,2874.67
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[10:17] <Laurenceb> cant see it on the tracker
[10:18] <jcoxon> they are incomplete strings
[10:18] <jcoxon> only displays nice ones
[10:19] <Laurenceb> got to be touching down soon
[10:19] <Laurenceb> not sur ewhat I'm looking at, might not beit
[10:19] <Laurenceb> there no rtty during dominoex?
[10:19] <shellevil> jco: still 5m/s or so.
[10:21] <jcoxon> hmmm can't hear it
[10:21] <shellevil> looking like touchdown a little west of ashford
[10:21] <Laurenceb> oh *** thats local noise
[10:21] <Laurenceb> nvm
[10:21] <plantain_> <plantain_> my figuring is somewhere near ashford
[10:21] <plantain_> :D
[10:21] <shellevil> When it does.
[10:21] <shellevil> :)
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[10:23] <jcoxon> thats it i'm afraid
[10:23] <Laurenceb> looks like I never had it
[10:23] <shellevil> what was the last alt you had
[10:23] <plantain_> what was the objective of this mission?
[10:23] <plantain_> just a nice picture?
[10:23] <shellevil> pla: star tracker
[10:24] <plantain_> star?
[10:24] <shellevil> you take pictures of the stars
[10:24] <shellevil> and from their appearance, work out your orientation
[10:24] <plantain_> o-O
[10:24] <plantain_> it's... night there?
[10:24] <jcoxon> last alt i got was 2874m
[10:24] <shellevil> well - no
[10:24] <shellevil> but it's very clear sky
[10:24] <Laurenceb> looks like I didnt have it at all
[10:24] <shellevil> and if you're pointed away from the sun, you can easily see stars
[10:25] <plantain_> o_O
[10:25] <Laurenceb> hmm but will it have taken anything - with it cutting down early
[10:25] <shellevil> At least at teh planned altitude.
[10:25] <shellevil> I don't know about 16Km.
[10:25] <plantain_> so presumably it just burst?
[10:26] <shellevil> no, it automatically cut away from the balloon
[10:26] <plantain_> why?
[10:26] <shellevil> to avoid falling in the water
[10:26] <plantain_> ahh
[10:26] <shellevil> water=bad.
[10:26] <plantain_> hehe
[10:26] <plantain_> considered perhaps sending down the pictures via packet radio and just letting it land anywhere?
[10:27] <shellevil> just letting it land anywhere means losing a couple of hundred pounds of stuff to the sea
[10:27] <shellevil> or a couple of K for a mission like this
[10:27] <shellevil> (guess)
[10:27] <shellevil> though it could be as little as 500
[10:27] <plantain_> so is someone funding these missions?
[10:28] <plantain_> i.e. a commercial enterprise?
[10:28] <Laurenceb> guess I may as well turn everythin goff :-/
[10:28] <shellevil> the above is a doctroal thesis
[10:28] <plantain_> oh cool
[10:28] <shellevil> many others are simply to take a couple of cheap cameras up, and take pretty pictures.
[10:28] <plantain_> I was thinking of doing something like this for mine someday
[10:28] <Laurenceb> oh jcoxon: whats the local repeater here?
[10:28] <shellevil> With no real scientific reason.
[10:28] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, http://www.charlescoverley.co.uk/ham/repeaters.htm
[10:29] <shellevil> Also - you can move one or several pictures by radio.
[10:29] <shellevil> A 32GB SD card can hold considerably more
[10:29] <Laurenceb> its fm?
[10:29] <plantain_> I guess you can shoot RAW too
[10:30] <shellevil> RAW vs jpeg only gets you a factor of 10 or so.
[10:30] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, yeah it will be
[10:30] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, if you wait a bit it'll send out its call sign
[10:30] <Laurenceb> exactly 433
[10:30] <shellevil> moving large amounts of data over a few hundred km is hard.
[10:31] <Laurenceb> erm 433.3
[10:31] <Laurenceb> do you have a more accurate estimate?
[10:33] <jcoxon> ?
[10:33] <jcoxon> fm is done in channels
[10:33] <Laurenceb> hmm so its exactly 433.3
[10:34] <gordonjcp> shellevil: no it isn't, stick a USB drive in the post ;-)
[10:34] <Laurenceb> how often is the callsign?
[10:34] <jcoxon> every 10mins
[10:34] <Laurenceb> bah
[10:35] <Laurenceb> humbug
[10:35] Action: Laurenceb contemplated breakfast or going back to bed
[10:39] <Laurenceb> aha got it
[10:39] <Laurenceb> in morse
[10:39] <Laurenceb> thats cool
[10:40] <Laurenceb> how hallam managed to get some photos
[10:40] <Laurenceb> was it 19Km at cutdown?
[10:42] <shellevil> gordonjcp: My postie won't even collect mail. How much do you pay yours for pickups at 20Km?
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[10:46] <Laurenceb> looks like a good landing point
[10:55] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: any news on recovery?
[10:56] <jcoxon> nothing yet
[10:57] <jcoxon> they were about 30miles away when i last spoke
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[11:01] <edmoore> hi
[11:02] <edmoore> jcoxon: what's happened?
[11:02] <edmoore> 16km at southend seems a bit lower than expected
[11:02] <edmoore> did it hit the radius buffer before the altitude one?
[11:02] <Laurenceb> hi ed, seemed to reach maybe 19Km max
[11:03] <Laurenceb> arent you on the recovery?
[11:03] <edmoore> no
[11:04] <edmoore> the ascent rate was 4m/s ish?
[11:04] <jcoxon> oh edmoore sorry, was trying to get the last bits of data
[11:04] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/
[11:05] <edmoore> ok
[11:05] <edmoore> so didn't get all that high
[11:05] <jcoxon> so yeah radius i think
[11:05] <jcoxon> log is : http://pegasus4.no-ip.org/~jamescoxon/fldigi20090322.log
[11:06] <edmoore> and a lot further east - i guess that's cos it launched a bit later than the sims
[11:06] <Laurenceb> 19.038Km
[11:06] <Laurenceb> just over the thames
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[11:06] <Laurenceb> would it have taken photos?
[11:07] <edmoore> winds look to be faster than simmed
[11:09] <Laurenceb> was it set to try and take photos before the apogee float?
[11:10] <edmoore> i think so
[11:10] <jcoxon> 51.1036 0.78517
[11:11] <jcoxon> thats the landing site
[11:12] <Laurenceb> you got more radio data?
[11:12] <jcoxon> henry did
[11:12] <jcoxon> just called me
[11:12] <jcoxon> they went to the last point
[11:13] <Laurenceb> neat
[11:14] <edmoore> luckyit didn't get to 30km
[11:14] <edmoore> might be in the channel
[11:16] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:16] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/42255
[11:16] <Laurenceb> thats mini rogallo velocity
[11:17] <jcoxon> edmoore, wasn't able to decode the domino
[11:19] <Laurenceb> around 27Km/h airspeed
[11:20] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[11:20] <jcoxon> have a good day everyone
[11:20] <Laurenceb> cya
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[11:21] <Laurenceb> looks like a knot broken in the winch
[11:23] <Laurenceb> I'm just trying to work out how v2 of the firmware is going to come together
[11:24] <Laurenceb> I'm going to try another rogallo launch, but I want to move onto a parafoil - that was the origional plan anyway
[11:24] <Laurenceb> thinking .... CA the knots for a start :P
[11:36] <Laurenceb> hmm horizontal velocity was 25Km/h, glide ration 2.95
[11:36] <shellevil> edmoore: it was pretty exactly on the 90km radius I think
[11:37] <edmoore> yeah
[11:37] <edmoore> maybe 92km
[11:37] <shellevil> one of the two
[11:37] <edmoore> so we got to 25km (what we wanted) at 5m/s in the sim, with half an hours float time
[11:37] <edmoore> before hitting the radius
[11:37] <shellevil> I don't understand why it came down at 5-6m/s all the way and diddn't seem to slow much in thin air.
[11:38] <shellevil> did you float?
[11:38] <shellevil> and any usable data or too low?
[11:39] <edmoore> so whilst the ascent was slower (hypothesis - i only thought the fill i gave the second was 'about' 5m/s, plus lots and lots and lots of drag from the stabilisation cloths), it looks like winds were faster than the sim
[11:39] <edmoore> we'll have to get the onboard data for that
[11:39] <shellevil> good luck
[11:39] <shellevil> was this a dry run, or hoped to produce quality data?
[11:40] <edmoore> i think henry is after good data
[11:40] <edmoore> but it's also the first time we've tried 2 balloons
[11:40] <edmoore> they behaved well
[11:40] <Laurenceb> cool
[11:40] <fergusnoble> hello
[11:40] <Laurenceb> hi fergus
[11:40] <Laurenceb> recovery ok?
[11:40] <edmoore> he's in devon
[11:41] <fergusnoble> im in devon
[11:41] <fergusnoble> snap
[11:41] <edmoore> Laurenceb: we're basically all at home save for henry
[11:41] <Laurenceb> ok
[11:41] <shellevil> he's in devon!
[11:41] <Laurenceb> well good luck to henry
[11:41] <shellevil> yep
[11:41] <fergusnoble> btw, it was coded to take photos right from the ground
[11:41] <Laurenceb> whos on the recovery mission?
[11:41] <fergusnoble> so not floating doesnt necissarily mean no data
[11:41] <Laurenceb> ah cool, should have something useful then
[11:42] <fergusnoble> however, it reduces the changes of the angular rates getting low enough to make the photos useable
[11:42] <fergusnoble> so we will have to wait and see
[11:42] <shellevil> I suppose in some ways spinning would be better
[11:42] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:42] <Laurenceb> its logging gyro data as well?
[11:42] <shellevil> as in it proves the concept more
[11:44] <Laurenceb> I'm still looking over the rogallo data, found a few bugs in the code, and things that could be done better. The main problem was the knot that stops the line slipping on the servo drum came undone
[11:44] <Laurenceb> probably during the violent ascent, nylon lines have a tendency to undo knots under lots of vibration
[11:45] <Laurenceb> the lines where quite slack in the tree
[11:45] <fergusnoble> just spoke to henry
[11:45] <fergusnoble> they got it
[11:45] <Laurenceb> and the control response was nonexistant or just occasionally there - as if the line was jamming on the drum. There are abresion marks on it
[11:45] <Laurenceb> ah cool
[11:46] <Laurenceb> will be a pain to transport back I guess
[11:46] <fergusnoble> yup, logging gyro mag and accel too
[11:46] <Laurenceb> ok, that should be helpful
[11:46] <fergusnoble> i guess they will cut the cross off
[11:47] <edmoore> henry took a hacksaw on the chase
[11:47] <Laurenceb> wrt the rogallo, the flight performance of the airframe was actually quite good, 2.95 to 3.15 glide ratio and 23 to 25Kmh horizontal velocity - suggests it could be trimmed to be slightly more font heavy
[11:49] <Laurenceb> will be interesting to see the imu sensor performance
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[11:50] <Laurenceb> guess henry has got lots of fun time ahead despinning photos ect :P
[11:51] <fergusnoble> yup
[11:51] <fergusnoble> but if its worked you should be able to see some bright stars in the jpegs
[11:52] <Laurenceb> I'm going to go for a second rogallo launch asap I think
[11:52] <Laurenceb> it looks promising
[11:52] <Laurenceb> and I have enough data to design considerably better control firmware
[11:57] <fergusnoble> looking at the logs it seems both cutdowns worked
[11:58] <fergusnoble> the last field is the range, the previous three are the cutdown state
[11:59] <fergusnoble> started falling after the first cutdown went
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[12:05] <plantain_> I've been contemplating the use of a glider released at the highest altitude possible
[12:06] <plantain_> which could provide a stable platform for taking pictures from
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[12:06] <plantain_> has anyone launched anything similar?
[12:06] <plantain_> esp. remote control or autopilot?
[12:07] <Laurenceb> me
[12:07] <Laurenceb> day before yesterday :P
[12:08] <plantain_> isn't a rogallo just a glorified parachute?
[12:08] <Laurenceb> nope it glides up to about 4:1
[12:08] <fergusnoble> plantain_: if you are in the uk its illegal to fly a solid wing uav
[12:08] <Laurenceb> if you trim right
[12:08] <plantain_> do you have much in the way of directional control?
[12:08] <plantain_> fergusnoble, I'm in Australia :D
[12:08] <Laurenceb> yeah, rogallo is a "chute"
[12:09] <Laurenceb> as far as regulations are concerned :P
[12:09] <plantain_> so you've got an autopilot for it which can steer itself?
[12:09] <Laurenceb> if the knots on the winch work yes
[12:09] <fergusnoble> a rogallo is like a hangglider
[12:09] <Laurenceb> unfortunately that came undone so it couldnt get enough contrl authority
[12:10] <Laurenceb> the other option is parafoils made from stunt kites
[12:10] <Laurenceb> you get similar performance and its probably easier to build, but theres more to go wrong
[12:10] <plantain_> I guess a fixed-wing glider would be a bit more complex to autopilot
[12:10] <plantain_> there's everything to go wrong
[12:10] <Laurenceb> yeah, you really need a full IMU
[12:11] <Laurenceb> but with henrys board it should be possible
[12:11] <Laurenceb> tho I dislike dspic
[12:11] <Laurenceb> wish he'd put an arm on there
[12:12] <plantain_> what's henry's board do?
[12:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8889
[12:12] <Laurenceb> arrgggg when will it be back in stock
[12:12] <Laurenceb> its an imu
[12:13] <Laurenceb> three gyro axes, two axis magnetometer and a three axis accellerometer
[12:13] <Laurenceb> so you can work out your orientation in 3D
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> fergusnoble: It is? I thought special permission had to be gotten only if it was >7Kg (or is it lb)
[12:14] <plantain_> I can even get my own airspace here in Aus, so it's not a problem in any way
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> yeah - well - australia. You've practically got something the size of wales each.
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:16] <plantain_> so who is henry?
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[12:22] <Laurenceb> http://74.125.77.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://shop.komplett-services.de/product_info.php%3Fproducts_id%3D261052&prev=/search%3Fq%3DTragant%2BNAVILOCK%2BNL-507%2BTTL%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX&usg=ALkJrhhXyHI1SCTman3OAK2ZYKQg-3QEFw
[12:23] <Laurenceb> looks cheap if that shop really exists
[12:23] <Laurenceb> but its not as cool as the gs406
[12:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.globtech.de/gps-engine-module-nl508eusb-navilock-p-13734.html
[12:26] <Laurenceb> nice site
[12:28] <edmoore> Laurenceb: so what's the plan for the next one?
[12:29] <Laurenceb> I think repair the rogallo and keep the lassen
[12:29] <Laurenceb> unfortunately
[12:29] <edmoore> your launches are so painless, you're basically free to just pitch up whenever
[12:29] <Laurenceb> as I cant easily get a ublox5
[12:29] <Laurenceb> thanks :P
[12:30] <edmoore> can you not?
[12:30] <edmoore> http://www.alphamicro.net/components/category~line~52~id~71.asp
[12:30] <Laurenceb> still need to take a look at the radio, but I'm pretty clear now about what happened and how the firmware needs to be changed
[12:30] <edmoore> try just phoning these guys up
[12:30] <Laurenceb> yeah but I'd need to make a board
[12:30] <edmoore> true
[12:30] <edmoore> well....
[12:30] <edmoore> how about the paparazzi autopilot guys?
[12:30] <Laurenceb> the ublox store is nice, but very expensive
[12:30] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:31] <Laurenceb> guess they may have some
[12:31] <edmoore> of the gs406 from sparky
[12:31] <Laurenceb> guess I could email them
[12:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.abacuscity.ch/abashop?s=392&p=hierarchyoutline&hi=6.00&hl=1&hs=1,1,2
[12:32] <Laurenceb> so expensive
[12:32] <plantain_> http://www3.computeruniverse.net/urlmapper2.asp?mapurl=/products/e90280018/d5/discussion-messageboard/navilock-nl-507ttl-u-blox-ttl-modul.asp&urlmapped=true
[12:32] <edmoore> http://ppzuav.com/osc/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=75
[12:33] <edmoore> think of all the money you save by blagging helium off us :p
[12:33] <Laurenceb> oh nice find
[12:33] <Laurenceb> hehe I should give you something for helium
[12:34] <edmoore> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8889
[12:34] <edmoore> no, helium is free
[12:34] <edmoore> and that sparkfun one is a ublox5
[12:34] <edmoore> $89
[12:34] <edmoore> and a funcky helical
[12:34] <Laurenceb> yeah but out of stock
[12:34] <Laurenceb> hopefully in soon
[12:35] <Laurenceb> I'd buy the connector then fit a the gps cable from the flight computer onto the connector
[12:36] <shellevil> Laurenceb: reason for sat losses being poor antenna?
[12:36] <Laurenceb> no
[12:36] <Laurenceb> the cutdown cable knocked them out
[12:36] <shellevil> ?
[12:36] <shellevil> oh
[12:37] <Laurenceb> leading to altitude fluctuations that destabilised the lift and drag coefficient filter
[12:37] <Laurenceb> causing a sanity check to fail and a section of code to be disabled
[12:37] <Laurenceb> that lead to the wrong wind vectors being loaded from eeprom
[12:37] <shellevil> if that hadn't happened - would it have flown the other way due to wrong sign?
[12:37] <Laurenceb> ?
[12:38] <shellevil> thought you said you had a wrong sign somewhere in the nav code.
[12:38] <Laurenceb> no the wrong sign was on the integration sanity check
[12:38] <shellevil> ah
[12:38] <Laurenceb> so the integration always failed
[12:38] <Laurenceb> also the knot went so it had very limited control authority
[12:38] <shellevil> yeah
[12:39] <Laurenceb> I can get rid of the filter that screwed up
[12:39] <Laurenceb> as I've got flight data now
[12:39] <Laurenceb> I'll CA the knot, and change the sign of the check :P , and add an rate integral term
[12:40] <Laurenceb> I'm still undecided if I'll use the wind recorded during ascent, or do wind vector calculation on the fly
[12:40] <edmoore> if you fail more than one sanity check, at what point do you become insane?
[12:40] <Laurenceb> I've got data now to test, but its spiralling so wind vector calculation on the fly with work unnaturally well
[12:41] <Laurenceb> hehe
[12:41] <shellevil> how much time/altitude does a spiral takee
[12:41] <Laurenceb> 20 seconds
[12:41] <Laurenceb> ~40m
[12:42] <shellevil> so 120m or so horizontal loss per spiral
[12:42] <shellevil> guess you don't want to do them just for cal
[12:42] <Laurenceb> ~25m radius
[12:42] <shellevil> saccades to +-45 degrees should be quite cheap thouggh
[12:42] <shellevil> if you don't think you can get SNR from smaller ones
[12:42] <Laurenceb> yeah but hopefully I can use the existing fluctuations in heading
[12:43] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:43] <Laurenceb> the advantage is if it goes wrong I lose control a bit and collect better data
[12:43] <edmoore> hallam is downloading whatever data he has, he says
[12:43] <Laurenceb> col
[12:43] <Laurenceb> good luck to him
[12:44] <Laurenceb> the obvious way is to fit a circle to the gps velocities and find the center
[12:44] <Laurenceb> but there are cleverer ways :P
[12:44] <shellevil> if I've got the numbers right - turning 45 degrees off base course and back should lose very little range.
[12:44] <Laurenceb> you could correlate changes in velocity with gyro data
[12:44] <shellevil> and give you pretty unambiguous signal
[12:45] <Laurenceb> and express that as a vector
[12:45] <Laurenceb> then subtract from the average gps velocity
[12:45] <shellevil> assuming you're flying coordinated, which probably isn't quite true
[12:46] <Laurenceb> but I think theres an even smarte way using data gleaned from the heading kalman filter
[12:46] <Laurenceb> if you look at heading measurement residuals... you know how far out you wind vector estamte is in one direction
[12:47] <shellevil> I tend to run away from smarter solutions for first attempts.
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[12:47] <shellevil> if the dumb solution is adequate
[12:47] <Laurenceb> well I have data to play with
[12:48] <shellevil> (crazy ivans)
[12:48] <Laurenceb> but yeah if wind during ascent is good enough, thats the dumb solution
[12:48] <shellevil> you need more than one balloon to test
[12:48] <shellevil> or drop sondes
[12:48] <Laurenceb> haha
[12:48] <shellevil> or look in the literature even.
[12:49] <Laurenceb> well even if I use wind estimation, I'll still use wind records for the descent route optimisation
[12:49] <Laurenceb> you can see on that plot the veolcities for nice circles
[13:00] <shellevil> hangon
[13:00] <shellevil> have you done the comparison between ascent and descent wind velocities?
[13:04] <Laurenceb> not yet
[13:04] <Laurenceb> havent got all the data yet
[13:04] <Laurenceb> been busy wih descent data ;p
[13:06] <Laurenceb> I'm just reading the ubx protocol... interesting, it has instructions for contacting a ublox server for ephemeris
[13:12] <Laurenceb> the thing I dont understand is theres no byte stuffing
[13:12] <Laurenceb> the sync bytes are free to occur in the data
[13:14] <Laurenceb> guess as there two sync bytes thats unlikely
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> If the packets are of constant length, even more unlikely
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> or have a length byte, or a CRC
[13:24] <Laurenceb> they have both
[13:27] <Laurenceb> hmm the odd thing is it says the serial port supports both ubx and nmea
[13:32] <Laurenceb> need to find someone whos written code
[13:32] <Laurenceb> as its not very clear
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> there is a magic string IIRC to switch the output
[13:36] <Laurenceb> youve used ublox?
[13:36] <Laurenceb> I used it ages ago... with the 4th generation
[13:37] <Laurenceb> seem to remember you send a UBX message to turn on the ubx
[13:40] <Laurenceb> http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/*checkout*/paparazzi/paparazzi3/sw/airborne/gps_ubx.c?revision=1.27&content-type=text%2Fplain
[13:40] <Laurenceb> looks useful
[13:40] <Laurenceb> stupidly overcomplicated to get as much functionality as poss by the look of it
[13:43] <Laurenceb> looks like a state machine approach, same as with TSIP
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> vague recollections of reading a manual
[14:11] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[15:47] <akawaka> any news on the flights/launches?
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[16:15] <shellevil> edmoore/hallam have recovered their payload.
[16:15] <shellevil> and are getting data from it
[16:16] <shellevil> Laurenceb: launched a couple of days ago, and got his thing stuck in a tree, after various control problems.
[16:17] <shellevil> natrium42 also got his stuck in a tree, though not the same one, and found that his spot works ok - but the GPS he picked doesn't work over 18km
[16:18] <shellevil> And I saw a kid with a kite earlier.
[16:18] <shellevil> That's about it.
[16:19] <akawaka> thorough
[16:19] <akawaka> thanks:)
[16:20] <Laurenceb> back
[16:20] <Laurenceb> theres some people having a bbq right outside my room
[16:21] <Laurenceb> first they lit a bonfire on the virge, then started cooking sausages on it :P
[16:21] <shellevil> Launches, not lunches
[16:21] <Laurenceb> hehe
[16:21] Action: shellevil has been doing the bonfire thing today too.
[16:21] <shellevil> Though of random branches and dead stuff.
[16:22] <Laurenceb> I got some nylon from B&Q, heavier grade and platted
[16:22] <shellevil> My car is full of rubbish.
[16:22] <Laurenceb> should improve the wing tilt
[16:22] <shellevil> cord?
[16:22] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:22] Action: shellevil has been tidying outside.
[16:22] <shellevil> It's amazing how many binbags you can pack into a nissan micra
[16:23] <Laurenceb> I need to get myself a car
[16:23] <shellevil> Also had 50 fenceposts in the back. :)
[16:23] <shellevil> ebay!
[16:24] <Laurenceb> hehe
[16:24] <Laurenceb> what sort of post?
[16:24] <Laurenceb> wooden spiked?
[16:24] <shellevil> 3*3 wooden spiked, 5'6"
[16:24] <Laurenceb> what for? panels?
[16:24] <shellevil> treated, from the sawmill, so cheap.
[16:24] <shellevil> My outside fence is due for repair.
[16:25] <Laurenceb> yeah we have a sawmill nearby
[16:25] <shellevil> As 90% of the posts have actually sheared off at ground level.
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[16:25] <shellevil> and one section is now at 135 degrees from where it should be.
[16:25] <Laurenceb> I've been using spiked posts then screwing the panels in
[16:25] <shellevil> post and wire here
[16:25] <Laurenceb> its not how your supposed to do it
[16:25] <Laurenceb> but a lot cheaper
[16:25] Action: shellevil has a hole-diggy machine.
[16:26] <Laurenceb> met posts are good, but expensive
[16:26] <Laurenceb> neat
[16:26] <shellevil> I figure - hole-digger from ebay - do 50 or so holes - goes back on ebay.
[16:26] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:26] <shellevil> Cheaper than a few days hire
[16:26] <Laurenceb> digging holes is a pain
[16:26] <Laurenceb> and you need concrete, and it doesnt last that well
[16:27] <Laurenceb> met posts last long, but expensive
[16:27] <Laurenceb> spiked wooden posts then screw is cheap and dodgy
[16:27] <Laurenceb> + large sledgehammer
[16:29] <shellevil> Of course, I really want the nice toy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnUSDSWdLY
[16:29] <Laurenceb> perfect for mini hydro projects :P
[16:30] <shellevil> articulated little tool carrier
[16:30] <shellevil> it's got _everything
[16:30] <shellevil> _ available as an attachment
[16:30] <shellevil> big bulk bag carrier, spreader, stump grinder, augers, ...
[16:31] <shellevil> annoyingly, I can't find anyone to hire me one in the area
[16:31] <shellevil> I need to spread 20 ton or so of gravel.
[16:31] <shellevil> and I'm not doing that by hand
[16:32] <jcoxon> crap
[16:32] <Laurenceb> language
[16:32] <jcoxon> there is what looks like a trans attempt going on
[16:32] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?call=KC2TUA-8&dt=1237680000&mt=m&z=11&timerange=3600
[16:32] <Laurenceb> nooooooooooo
[16:32] <Laurenceb> nnoooooo
[16:32] <Laurenceb> arrgggggg
[16:32] <Laurenceb> :P
[16:32] <Laurenceb> voodo time
[16:32] <shellevil> quick - get out the rocket, and load the warhead, not the chute.
[16:33] <Laurenceb> erm I dont have a password
[16:33] <shellevil> you need to retype the callsign into the box
[16:33] <shellevil> kc2tua
[16:33] <jcoxon> oh yeah sorry
[16:33] <shellevil> at least - I do
[16:34] <shellevil> couple of hundred miles east of halifax, at 30000 ft
[16:34] <Laurenceb> sweet gui
[16:35] <Laurenceb> what frequency will that be then? 144.something?
[16:35] <jcoxon> https://explore.twitter.com/PBH3
[16:35] <jcoxon> yeah its aprs
[16:35] <jcoxon> but i think it has HF on it as well
[16:35] <jcoxon> looking at the twitter updates
[16:37] <Laurenceb> looks like they almost crashed
[16:37] <Laurenceb> alcohol ballast?
[16:37] <jcoxon> its certainly liquid
[16:37] <Laurenceb> thought it was banned in the states?
[16:38] <jcoxon> kc2tua is a callsign
[16:38] Action: shellevil calls the FAA, and watches the F16s intercept.
[16:38] <Laurenceb> alcohol :P
[16:38] <Laurenceb> heading a bit north
[16:39] <Laurenceb> is Steves transmitter going to use the US aprs frequency?
[16:39] <jcoxon> hmmm i don't think its a true trans-a
[16:39] <jcoxon> i think they lost control
[16:40] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, no as its an HF transmitter
[16:40] <jcoxon> i think aprs is only 2m
[16:40] <shellevil> Ah - right
[16:40] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:40] <shellevil> it wasn't intended as transatlantic
[16:41] <Laurenceb> and you need the correct modulation
[16:41] <shellevil> it's just going that way :)
[16:41] <Laurenceb> coulddt we try for aprs?
[16:41] Action: shellevil wonders if they'll run out of battery
[16:41] <Laurenceb> at least over canada and the atlantic
[16:41] <Laurenceb> its going too far north
[16:41] <Laurenceb> can you run hisplit?
[16:42] <jcoxon> right its the guys who hold the record for the altitude
[16:42] <jcoxon> Project Blue Horizon (PBH), an educational component of a three-year program known as Lockheed Martin?s Engineering Leadership Development Program.
[16:44] <shellevil> 78000ft mentioned - zp I suppose
[16:44] <shellevil> url?
[16:44] <Laurenceb> haha lockheed martin
[16:45] <jcoxon> it could be latex
[16:45] <jcoxon> nah it can't be
[16:45] <jcoxon> must be zp
[16:46] <jcoxon> if only we could find out what HF band it is on
[16:47] <shellevil> I can't find a URL
[16:47] <shellevil> yeah.
[16:48] <shellevil> broadcast it starting to accellerate at 4G straight up.
[16:49] <jcoxon> it can't be a mistake
[16:50] <jcoxon> from where they launched it seems like an attempt
[16:52] <Laurenceb> opdates coming through ok
[16:52] <Laurenceb> can you run it in hysplit?
[16:52] <jcoxon> oh wait it can't be - they had a recovery team
[16:52] <jcoxon> maybe its a zp that they've lost control of
[16:52] <jcoxon> yeah i'll run hysplit
[16:52] <jcoxon> one sec
[16:54] <shellevil> yeah - test drop 10% ballast - and have recovery team if you need to cutdown as stuff doesn't work
[16:54] <shellevil> if they have adequate battery, and the weather looks sane, ...
[16:55] <Laurenceb> they say they dropped 300ml
[16:55] <shellevil> 2.6l left they say
[16:55] <shellevil> hmm
[16:55] <shellevil> that'd - if you can get the track - tell you about the lift of the balloon
[16:56] <shellevil> . Future PBH teams will launch missions that include long-duration flights, trans-Atlantic flights,
[16:56] <shellevil> though I can find no project webpage
[16:59] <jcoxon> yeah, can't find anything else
[17:01] <shellevil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24956861@N05/3364055431/
[17:01] <shellevil> I guess not :)
[17:05] <Laurenceb> interesting
[17:07] <jcoxon> http://pegasus4.no-ip.org/~jamescoxon/HYSPLITtraj_146582.kmz
[17:07] <jcoxon> hysplit model
[17:07] <jcoxon> blue line is their altitude
[17:08] <Laurenceb> green?
[17:08] <jcoxon> 15000m
[17:08] <Laurenceb> ah
[17:10] <shellevil> meh - can''t load kml. brief description?
[17:12] <jcoxon> at the alt they are at its on its way to greenland then over towards scandinavia
[17:12] <jcoxon> if it stays up for 3 days
[17:15] <Laurenceb> you need googe earth
[17:16] <Laurenceb> hmm 4 balloons in 3 days
[17:18] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvQxxDpsenM
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[17:21] <jcoxon> i think it'll follow the hysplit path
[17:29] <jcoxon> Our objective is now to land the payload on Newfoundland tonight. Very unlikely we'll break 40hr endurance record
[17:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20090310
[17:33] <jcoxon> according to twitter that balloon is a 40hr record attempt
[17:34] <Laurenceb> thats a record?
[17:34] <Laurenceb> for what sort of balloon?
[17:34] <jcoxon> endurance - snox IV did 40.2hrs
[17:35] <Laurenceb> CRES did 96 days :P
[17:35] <Laurenceb> *CNES
[17:37] <jcoxon> amateur
[17:37] <Laurenceb> suppose so... altitude records are more interesting as far as I see it
[17:38] <Laurenceb> unless you go for some long duration envelope design your not going to get anywhere near CNES ect
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> CNES?
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> oh
[17:38] <Laurenceb> with their MIR balloon
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> or superpressure
[17:39] <Laurenceb> they might have been beaten by NASA with the superpressure balloon flights over antarctica now... not sure
[17:49] <Laurenceb> I like the multihop feature
[17:49] <Laurenceb> on aprs gui
[17:52] <jcoxon> oh dear
[17:52] <jcoxon> seems like they've upset a few hams
[17:52] <Laurenceb> how come?
[17:52] <jcoxon> its interfering with a voice repeater
[17:52] <Laurenceb> oh
[17:52] <Laurenceb> aprs is so nice :P
[17:53] <Laurenceb> it'd be cool if we could make use of it
[17:53] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, we can't though
[17:53] <jcoxon> wrong freq
[17:53] <Laurenceb> yeah
[17:53] <jcoxon> the UKHAS network will do a basic job
[17:55] <Laurenceb> yeah, but if we're launching from canada we could use it out into the atlantic
[17:55] <jcoxon> that is true
[17:55] <jcoxon> perhaps not so agressively though - so not to upset the hams who run the system
[17:55] <Laurenceb> hmm
[17:56] <Laurenceb> I really like the multihopping
[17:56] <jcoxon> they are sending packets every minute
[17:56] <Laurenceb> or whatever you call it
[17:56] <jcoxon> on multiple channels
[17:56] <jcoxon> both standard aprs and voice channels
[17:56] <Laurenceb> but thats hard routed with aprs
[17:56] <Laurenceb> not that it matters
[17:56] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, yesw
[17:56] <jcoxon> its easy to pick up the UK aprs system
[17:57] <jcoxon> get it on 2m easily
[17:57] <Laurenceb> its different from the states?
[17:57] <jcoxon> no
[17:57] <jcoxon> same
[17:57] <Laurenceb> oh
[17:57] <Laurenceb> ok thought it uses different frequency
[17:57] <Laurenceb> thats cool
[17:57] <jcoxon> oh europe use a different freq
[17:57] <jcoxon> which includes us
[17:58] <Laurenceb> guess we'd have to turn off before reaching
[17:58] <Laurenceb> eh
[17:58] <Laurenceb> so it is differnet
[17:58] <Laurenceb> right
[17:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html
[17:58] <Laurenceb> they are still ascending, but its mid afternoon there atm
[18:00] <jcoxon> so they plan to get a local ham to send the cutdown code
[18:01] <Laurenceb> over the atlantic?
[18:01] <fergusnoble> jcoxon: how can i track it?
[18:01] <fergusnoble> is there a main webpage
[18:01] <jcoxon> no when it reaches newfoundland
[18:01] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, ummm on aprs
[18:01] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?
[18:01] <jcoxon> oops
[18:01] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/
[18:02] <fergusnoble> what callsign
[18:02] <jcoxon> and KC2TUA-8
[18:02] <jcoxon> i'm following it in google earth
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[18:03] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, they don't seem to have a project website
[18:03] <fergusnoble> how did you find out about it?
[18:03] <jcoxon> someone posted on the Balloon_Sked list
[18:03] <jcoxon> saying they heard it and saw it on aprs
[18:04] <jcoxon> i don't think it was intended to go out to sea but there is scarce info
[18:05] <fergusnoble> ok
[18:06] <jcoxon> on this note i shall send natrium_ the sensor and valves tomorrow morning
[18:06] <jcoxon> as its about time we tried ourselves
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[18:11] <Hiena> ' morning!
[18:11] <jcoxon> hey Hiena
[18:11] <Hiena> Any PIC expert awake?
[18:12] <Hiena> Anybody knows, how affect the Z bit the ANDLW?
[18:13] <Hiena> I have to make a simple if (W==L) then dosomething algorithm, but my cidea didnt works.
[18:23] <Laurenceb> it should be starting to descend now
[18:23] <Laurenceb> aha it is
[18:23] <Laurenceb> :P
[18:24] <Laurenceb> yeah peak altitude seems to be reached around 2pm local time
[18:26] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: where are you getting you info on the cutdown plans?
[18:27] <jcoxon> the twitter page
[18:27] <jcoxon> https://twitter.com/PBH3
[18:27] <Laurenceb> oh doh
[18:27] <Laurenceb> :P
[18:28] <Laurenceb> ooh its rising.. thats odd
[18:33] <jcoxon> perhaps dumping ballast?
[18:34] <jcoxon> okay
[18:34] <jcoxon> here is teh info:
[18:34] <jcoxon> We launched
[18:34] <jcoxon> yesterday at 10 AM from Owego, NY with a zero-pressure Aerostar
[18:34] <jcoxon> envelop. Our intent was to cut it down over Vermont but it failed.
[18:34] <jcoxon> We have an altitude control ballast system and about 42 hours of APRS
[18:34] <jcoxon> battery. Looks like we will splash down this afternoon if we can't
[18:34] <jcoxon> dump ballast via HF.
[18:35] <jcoxon> its being now refered to as PBH-8 Rogue Balloon :-p
[18:35] <Laurenceb> haha
[18:36] <Laurenceb> are you talking to hams?
[18:36] <jcoxon> it just got forward to a mailing list i'm on
[18:36] <jcoxon> the one i found out that it was flying on
[18:36] <Laurenceb> ah
[18:36] <Laurenceb> its rising quite a bit
[18:41] <Laurenceb> ~500 feet anyway
[18:41] <jcoxon> gps drift?
[18:42] <Laurenceb> not that much
[18:42] <Laurenceb> maybe its uupdraft
[18:43] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, where did the rogallo land?
[18:43] <Laurenceb> near strepton
[18:43] <jcoxon> adding it to the wiki
[18:44] <jcoxon> got coords?
[18:44] <Laurenceb> erm shepreth
[18:45] <Laurenceb> 52.112967,0.044294
[18:45] <Laurenceb> I'll put a kml together
[18:46] <Laurenceb> right I'm going to head out to do some test with the rogallo
[18:46] <Laurenceb> bbl
[18:46] Laurenceb (n=laurence@dyres221-35.surrey.ac.uk) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
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[18:47] <jcoxon> we have now done 28 launches
[18:47] <jcoxon> since 2005
[18:58] <icez> nice
[19:08] <jcoxon> its holding altitude well
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[19:14] <jcoxon> evening RocketBoy
[19:28] <RocketBoy> hey jcoxon - how did the HALO3 launch go yesterday? (I'm still going through the logs)
[19:28] <jcoxon> halo 3 was recovered
[19:28] <jcoxon> we had some issues with spot - it isn't the solution
[19:28] <jcoxon> perfect solution*
[19:28] <shellevil> In a tree.
[19:29] <shellevil> Well - some of the issues were with the spot mods
[19:29] <jcoxon> also the venus gps fail at 18km
[19:29] <jcoxon> we had nova 10 today as well
[19:29] <jcoxon> what i receieved: http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/
[19:29] <shellevil> any more on the tracker data?
[19:29] <shellevil> star
[19:30] <jcoxon> it was retrieved - thats all i know
[19:30] <jcoxon> finally... we are tracking a rogue ZP balloon
[19:30] <shellevil> How do we know the colour?
[19:31] <RocketBoy> rouge how?
[19:31] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/ KC2TUA-8
[19:31] <jcoxon> they were planning to cut it down but it failed and its now about 100km from newfoundland
[19:36] <shellevil> what did hysplit say about thee cours
[19:37] <jcoxon> its going to go over newfoundland and if still up up to south tip of greenland then round towards europe
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[19:46] <shellevil> Registrant: Thomas C Triebwasser, 19 Kneeland Ave A, Binghamton, NY 13905-4105
[19:46] <shellevil> callsign
[19:46] <jcoxon> qrz.com?
[19:46] <Laurenceb> wow theres aprs in newfoundland
[19:47] <shellevil> fcc website
[19:47] <shellevil> err
[19:47] <shellevil> http://www.city-data.com/aradio/lic-Binghamton-New-York.html
[19:47] <Laurenceb> they're going to want to think about cutting down shortly
[19:48] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, they can't
[19:48] <jcoxon> lost contact
[19:48] <Laurenceb> oh noes
[19:48] <Laurenceb> oh well will be interesting
[19:48] <jcoxon> thats teh whole point
[19:49] <jcoxon> it was meant to cut down over vermont
[19:49] <Laurenceb> just got the full data off the rogallo
[19:49] <Laurenceb> annoyingly I wiped the wind data by mistake in cambridge
[19:49] <Laurenceb> the lassen iq is so annoying
[19:49] <Laurenceb> need a ublox5 desperately
[19:50] <shellevil> oops
[19:50] <Laurenceb> it takes about 30 minutes to get the lassen functioning, and I'm not convinced of the reliability
[19:50] <Laurenceb> I can reconstruct what it recorded from the ascent data
[19:51] <Laurenceb> I know it was sensible, as I took a look in the terminal
[19:51] <Laurenceb> but I didnt realise a buffer had overflowed or something
[19:51] <Laurenceb> so not everything was logged to the logfile
[19:51] <Laurenceb> and the wind was missing along with the ascent
[19:52] <Laurenceb> I now have everything but I pressed the wrong button in cam and wiped the wind eeprom after I thought it'd been collected
[19:53] <Laurenceb> I may give trimble an email and ask about the lassen iq, as this is really absurd
[19:53] <shellevil> http://www.eppraisal.com/localpages/Agents/Suzanne K Triebwasser_983054.aspx
[19:53] <shellevil> Above registrants wife? With phone number. (idly browsing)
[19:53] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: I thought they planned to get someone to get it to cutdown by radio
[19:53] <Laurenceb> stalker
[19:54] <shellevil> Idly wondering if I couyld find a webpage through other means
[19:55] <shellevil> Their house that they bought for $135k in 2007 is now worth about half that.
[19:55] <jcoxon> yeah but nothing about if they have
[19:56] <shellevil> Anyway - no actual balloon related website
[19:56] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, they are beginning to lose alt
[20:00] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:00] <Laurenceb> ok this is seriously odd
[20:00] <Laurenceb> the altitude goes up 130m at cutdown
[20:03] <Laurenceb> the ground track drift during cutdown looks as would be expected
[20:03] <Laurenceb> altitude then stays roughly constant for 10 seconds
[20:04] <Laurenceb> its got to be the gps screwing up with the sudden drop
[20:06] <Laurenceb> still, 130m is bad... maybe it lost some sats
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[20:13] <Laurenceb> looks like the gps hung as well
[20:13] <Laurenceb> it was doing that on the ground but I decided to launch anyway
[20:13] <Laurenceb> and it appears to have started working better
[20:14] <Laurenceb> but shortly after launch it stopped talking to the flight computer for ~5 seconds
[20:14] <Laurenceb> s/launch/cutdown
[20:14] <Laurenceb> seriously, DO NOT EVER use a lassen iq
[20:18] <DRebellion> Hey guys, just looking for a rough estimate on statistics for a 1000g balloon: how much helium, and how high will that take us?
[20:18] <DRebellion> considering we're going for a simple gps, radio, camera, arduino payload
[20:19] <jcoxon> DRebellion, we work upon weight and free lift
[20:19] <DRebellion> jcoxon, i'm not sure what you mean?
[20:19] <jcoxon> so you get a standard tank of helium (there are particular sizes)
[20:19] <jcoxon> and you fill the balloon to just lift the payload
[20:20] <DRebellion> right, so how much would the sort of payload i described weigh?
[20:20] <jcoxon> then you fill it more for the free lift
[20:20] <jcoxon> ummm < 500g
[20:20] <DRebellion> so, what size balloon and how much helium would you recommend?
[20:20] <DRebellion> as a rough guide (to aid a price list)
[20:21] <jcoxon> have a look here
[20:21] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[20:21] <DRebellion> there's only data for hydrogen?
[20:21] <jcoxon> that data yeah
[20:21] <jcoxon> but its not 'too' different
[20:21] <DRebellion> ok cool
[20:21] <DRebellion> thanks
[20:22] <jcoxon> 1kg is a good sized balloon
[20:22] <jcoxon> helium is a bit tougher
[20:22] <jcoxon> CUSF have their own supply
[20:22] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: whats the order in a kml file?
[20:22] <Laurenceb> lat, long, alt?
[20:23] <jcoxon> and quite often RocketBoy can supply helium to a launch at the EARs site - will charge depending on how much is used
[20:23] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i think its a weird way and its lon, lat alt
[20:23] <Laurenceb> k
[20:23] <DRebellion> Any idea on the cost of filling a 1200g balloon for a 500g payload then?
[20:24] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, and estimates
[20:24] <jcoxon> ?
[20:24] <jcoxon> any*
[20:26] <RocketBoy> hang on I'll do some calcs
[20:26] <DRebellion> RocketBoy, thanks
[20:27] <Laurenceb> yawn...
[20:27] <Laurenceb> I'm too tired to think straight... how do you augment and array in python?
[20:27] aLeXBrEtOn (n=Alexande@client-80-5-40-149.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> good day gents
[20:28] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, look who's back
[20:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> i noticed
[20:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> anyway
[20:28] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, you want to add a value to an array?
[20:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> we have come up with a pricelist
[20:28] <Laurenceb> I think so...
[20:28] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, hang on, i'll paste you history
[20:29] <Laurenceb> array.append?
[20:29] <jcoxon> DRebellion, there are logs for this channel
[20:29] <jcoxon> array.append(x)
[20:29] <jcoxon> DRebellion, http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/zeusbot/
[20:29] <aLeXBrEtOn> BTW
[20:29] <aLeXBrEtOn> guys
[20:29] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, http://docs.python.org/library/array.html
[20:30] <aLeXBrEtOn> I heard that the Pegasus had a canon powershot A60 on board
[20:30] <aLeXBrEtOn> one of them
[20:30] <DRebellion> jcoxon, too late ; )
[20:30] <aLeXBrEtOn> do you reckon an A80 would work at high altitude?
[20:30] <aLeXBrEtOn> because I have one of those here
[20:30] <Laurenceb> hmm no updates for a while
[20:30] <jcoxon> yes
[20:30] <aLeXBrEtOn> and it would save us quite some money
[20:30] <aLeXBrEtOn> great
[20:31] <jcoxon> but
[20:31] <aLeXBrEtOn> we can subtract the £60 of camera cost
[20:31] <jcoxon> how were you planning to trigger the camera? by hardwiring it to the flight computer or chdk on a sd card?
[20:31] <aLeXBrEtOn> we were thinking by connecting it to the flight computer, no?
[20:31] <DRebellion> chdk?
[20:32] <DRebellion> yeh, solder it
[20:32] <DRebellion> pegasus has instructions for the a60?
[20:32] <aLeXBrEtOn> I assume they have similar architecture inside
[20:32] <jcoxon> hmmm
[20:32] <jcoxon> basically if you get a slightly new powershot
[20:32] <RocketBoy> KCI1200 = £60, 2.7cu m of helium £60 = £120
[20:32] <aLeXBrEtOn> the shutter stuff is probably shared
[20:32] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_PowerShot_A
[20:32] <DRebellion> RocketBoy, great thanks :)
[20:32] <RocketBoy> total
[20:32] <jcoxon> there is this amazing custom firmware
[20:33] <jcoxon> which will do everythign for you
[20:33] <jcoxon> all you do is turn the camera on and it'll take pictures
[20:33] <DRebellion> jcoxon, we already have a willing a80
[20:33] <DRebellion> so we'd like to avoid buying new
[20:33] <aLeXBrEtOn> the A80 and A60 are nearly identical
[20:33] <DRebellion> yes
[20:33] <aLeXBrEtOn> apart from larger CCD on one and LCD
[20:33] <DRebellion> a60 -> "Added vari-angle LCD" -> a80
[20:33] <aLeXBrEtOn> and more pixels
[20:34] <DRebellion> great
[20:34] <jcoxon> what pegasus mission are you using as a guide for this?
[20:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> all of 'em
[20:34] <jcoxon> haha they don't all use powershots
[20:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah
[20:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> one of them does
[20:34] <jcoxon> they only use powershots when its connected by usb to a gumstix
[20:35] <aLeXBrEtOn> how about an arduino?
[20:35] <jcoxon> and the camera is triggered over usb, downloads the image and sends it by packet
[20:35] <jcoxon> not going to work that way with an arduino
[20:35] <aLeXBrEtOn> well we could try a different way of triggering it
[20:35] <DRebellion> which is preferred then? arduino or gumstix?
[20:35] <DRebellion> preferably *nix compatible
[20:35] <jcoxon> for a first flight i'd got with the arduino
[20:36] <jcoxon> gumstixs are expensive
[20:36] <jcoxon> go*
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> )gumsticks are expensive
[20:36] <DRebellion> ok
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> ohj
[20:36] <DRebellion> damn, so there won't be any solder-advice for the powershot
[20:37] <aLeXBrEtOn> nvm
[20:37] <jcoxon> DRebellion, aLeXBrEtOn - the perfect beginner payload:
[20:37] <aLeXBrEtOn> want me to open it now?
[20:37] <DRebellion> listen up : O
[20:37] <jcoxon> arduino, lassen iq gps, radiometrix ntx2, powershot 560
[20:37] <aLeXBrEtOn> i have a screwdriver set close by ;-)
[20:37] <DRebellion> <Laurenceb> seriously, DO NOT EVER use a lassen iq
[20:37] <DRebellion> =/
[20:37] <Laurenceb> :P
[20:38] <jcoxon> hehe he's upset
[20:38] DanielRichman (n=DanielRi@89.243.213.125) joined #highaltitude.
[20:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> lassen iq is recommended by many
[20:38] <DRebellion> hey DanielRichman
[20:38] <Laurenceb> yeah use a ublox
[20:38] <jcoxon> badger is very happy with a lassen
[20:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> yo
[20:38] <DRebellion> (he's with us)
[20:38] <DanielRichman> Evening.
[20:38] <DRebellion> need to get a new freenode handle
[20:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> about them screwdrivers
[20:38] <DRebellion> <--- is crap
[20:38] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, hold ya horses sonny
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> DRebellion: Pick two random words.
[20:38] <aLeXBrEtOn> got 'em
[20:38] <Laurenceb> maybe i'll email trimble
[20:38] <jcoxon> watch the capcitor - it hurts if you short it - from experience
[20:39] <aLeXBrEtOn> lol
[20:39] <DanielRichman> What did you short it through? Your finger?
[20:39] <jcoxon> yup
[20:39] <DanielRichman> ouch
[20:39] <Laurenceb> your lassen iq
[20:39] <jcoxon> it burns a bit
[20:39] <DanielRichman> According to my arduino, my finger has a resistance of 1.6M Ohms...
[20:39] <DanielRichman> tingles a bit
[20:39] <aLeXBrEtOn> damn they are screwed in tight
[20:39] <DanielRichman> Alex, what are you attacking now?
[20:40] <aLeXBrEtOn> the camera we will be using
[20:40] <DRebellion> SpeedEvil, good idea
[20:40] <DRebellion> perhaps my name instead
[20:40] <DRebellion> ouch
[20:40] <DRebellion> ooh
[20:40] <DRebellion> DanielRichman, hey daniel, mind if we fly your arduino?/
[20:40] <DRebellion> DanielRichman, his powershot a80
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: press harder than you might think on screws.
[20:40] <DRebellion> XD
[20:40] <DRebellion> indeed
[20:40] <DRebellion> stand on a cardboard box
[20:40] <DRebellion> then you can't discharge to the ground?
[20:40] <DanielRichman> nah
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: stripping them makes stuff much more annoying.
[20:40] <DanielRichman> capacitor: short the two legs through your finger
[20:40] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah just curious
[20:40] <DRebellion> DanielRichman, yeh well
[20:40] <DanielRichman> the charge doesn't go to the ground
[20:40] <DRebellion> it could though>?
[20:41] <DRebellion> meh
[20:41] <Laurenceb> it goes to the othe rterminal
[20:41] <DanielRichman> exactly
[20:41] <DRebellion> thought as much
[20:41] <DRebellion> oh well
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> ground is a concept
[20:41] <DRebellion> got to make a crap joke about cardboard boxes
[20:41] <aLeXBrEtOn> nvm
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> it's not really anything electrons know about
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> electrons only know about local voltage gradients
[20:41] <DanielRichman> If it went to the floor you'd know about it - rather, you would, but then you might not for much longer
[20:41] <jcoxon> oooo they are dumping ballast
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> Dive Dive Dive!
[20:42] <DRebellion> lulz
[20:42] <DRebellion> why don't they dump it all at once?
[20:42] <DRebellion> or will it go too far?
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> dumping ballast?
[20:42] <jcoxon> i think its to test that the comms are working
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> surely they want to cutdown over land
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:42] <DRebellion> it failed
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it's a safe thing to try
[20:42] <jcoxon> dump a bit of ballast, see if it goes up
[20:43] <DRebellion> goddamn RS homework
[20:43] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, got the price list?
[20:43] <aLeXBrEtOn> probably
[20:43] <DRebellion> sharing is caring...
[20:44] <aLeXBrEtOn> how much for helium?
[20:44] <aLeXBrEtOn> hmm?
[20:45] <jcoxon> yeah teh ballast worked
[20:45] <jcoxon> its going up
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:45] <aLeXBrEtOn> ready: total price £210
[20:45] <aLeXBrEtOn> including helium
[20:46] <DanielRichman> What's in that list
[20:46] <aLeXBrEtOn> everything.
[20:46] <jcoxon> now the question is where the hell do you cut down a payload in newfoundland thats useful
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: duct tape?
[20:46] <aLeXBrEtOn> got that already ;)
[20:46] <DRebellion> hah
[20:46] <aLeXBrEtOn> must have 4 odd rolls
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Call UPS for a pickup.
[20:46] <DanielRichman> everything?
[20:46] <DanielRichman> tell me
[20:46] <aLeXBrEtOn> in various widths and colours
[20:46] <DRebellion> jcoxon, i thought the cutdown already failed?
[20:46] <Laurenceb> whats the python equivalent of fprintf?
[20:47] <jcoxon> DRebellion, no they lost comms so couldn't fire the cutdown
[20:47] <DRebellion> oh right
[20:47] <jcoxon> well thats how i understood it
[20:48] <aLeXBrEtOn> so, where is this money going to come from?
[20:48] <DanielRichman> You still haven't said what's in that list
[20:48] <DRebellion> yeh
[20:48] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, can you break it down?
[20:48] <aLeXBrEtOn> sure
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> NTX2 transmitter: £12+3
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> Lassen iQ GPS: £17+3
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> Arduino Pro: £15+3
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> Balloon: £44.95+5
[20:49] <DRebellion> what balloon?
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> 1200g
[20:49] <DRebellion> k
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> totex
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> and helium: £120 we said?
[20:49] <DRebellion> yes
[20:49] <DanielRichman> whoa
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> OK there
[20:49] <DanielRichman> helium is expensive
[20:49] <jcoxon> DRebellion, the helium is 60
[20:49] <DRebellion> yeh that's right
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> ok then
[20:49] <DRebellion> 60 was for a ballon, 60 for helium
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> =)
[20:49] <DRebellion> total price...
[20:49] <aLeXBrEtOn> 45 for a balloon
[20:50] <aLeXBrEtOn> do the maths
[20:50] <DRebellion> : (
[20:50] <DRebellion> busy
[20:50] <aLeXBrEtOn> *sigh*
[20:50] <DRebellion> what about ropes
[20:50] <DRebellion> and a parachute
[20:50] <aLeXBrEtOn> 162.95
[20:50] <aLeXBrEtOn> ropes?
[20:50] <aLeXBrEtOn> got some
[20:50] <DRebellion> yeh but its going to be cold
[20:50] <aLeXBrEtOn> ...
[20:50] <DRebellion> parachute
[20:51] <aLeXBrEtOn> pfff dunno
[20:52] <Laurenceb> polythene chute
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> As to cutdowns in newfoundland - the curent track in about an hour and a half looks like the best shot I guess.
[20:53] <DRebellion> Laurenceb, what sort of size would we need?
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> Even an international airport.
[20:53] <aLeXBrEtOn> 50 inch
[20:53] <Laurenceb> do a drag coefficient calculation
[20:53] <aLeXBrEtOn> that's the size
[20:53] <aLeXBrEtOn> looking at the chart on the wiki
[20:54] <aLeXBrEtOn> quite expensive actually
[20:54] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, link?
[20:54] <aLeXBrEtOn> one here is 70$
[20:55] <aLeXBrEtOn> http://www.anchorparachutes.com/our_products.htm
[20:55] <aLeXBrEtOn> scroll down to 50 inch
[20:56] <Laurenceb> landfall :P
[20:57] <DRebellion> Is a 500g a reasonable estimate for a 350g camera, arduino, gps, radio Tx, chute?
[20:57] <aLeXBrEtOn> er wait a sec
[20:57] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn: What about the costs of radio receiving equipment?
[20:57] <jcoxon> and batteries
[20:57] <jcoxon> you could strip down the camera to save weight
[20:57] <aLeXBrEtOn> ppl here have offered to provide/help
[20:57] <DRebellion> is that reasonable? for the whole payload?
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I make it cutdown in about an hour
[20:57] <aLeXBrEtOn> dude
[20:57] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[20:57] <aLeXBrEtOn> the camera weighs 380g
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: assuming a 5m/s drop
[20:58] <DRebellion> oh right
[20:58] <DRebellion> so its going to be more
[20:58] <aLeXBrEtOn> 1AA battery is 30g
[20:58] <aLeXBrEtOn> and we'll need 2 of those
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: you want to use energiser lithium
[20:58] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn: nonetheless, relying solely on other people's receiving equipment is risky
[20:58] <aLeXBrEtOn> so 440g just camera + batteries
[20:58] <aLeXBrEtOn> well have fun buying
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: especially as they may not be able to pick up your signal at launch times
[20:59] <DanielRichman> Is it feasible to run the arduino and the camera off the same power?
[20:59] <aLeXBrEtOn> anyway, if the payload weighs around 700g, why are we needing a 1200g balloon?
[20:59] <DRebellion> DanielRichman, camera has its own battery
[20:59] <aLeXBrEtOn> 4 AAs
[20:59] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, 1200g is the weight of the balloon itself, no?
[20:59] <aLeXBrEtOn> + 2 more for the other stuff I assume
[20:59] <DanielRichman> DRebellion: Yes, but. Why have batteries for the camera and the arduino separatly?
[20:59] <DRebellion> DanielRichman, simple design?
[20:59] <aLeXBrEtOn> yes
[21:00] <aLeXBrEtOn> just shove the batteries in
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> lithium AAs are 14g each, not 30g
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> or ordinary alkaline - but you don't want to use those
[21:00] <DanielRichman> DRebellion: More weight.
[21:00] <aLeXBrEtOn> I weighed my rechargable Ni-Mh at 30g
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: yes - they are heavy
[21:00] <aLeXBrEtOn> hmmm
[21:00] <DanielRichman> DRebellion: Also, if we're hacking the shutter anyway....
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: 15*6g saving for lithium
[21:00] <aLeXBrEtOn> Lithium-they rechargable ones yes?
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> no
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> http://www.toolup.com/energizer/l91bp-4.html
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> They aren't that expensive
[21:01] <aLeXBrEtOn> OK
[21:01] <aLeXBrEtOn> so we run the camera off those
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> and they work well in cold
[21:01] <DRebellion> so we're looking at about £250 total?
[21:01] <aLeXBrEtOn> I don't trust the NiMH
[21:01] <DRebellion> unless anybody can think of more expenses
[21:01] <aLeXBrEtOn> radio receiver
[21:01] <aLeXBrEtOn> but no
[21:02] <aLeXBrEtOn> 250
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> What's the difference between a C and a CS lens anyone?
[21:02] <aLeXBrEtOn> camera lens?
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> the full spec would help
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> they are standard types
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> or fittings
[21:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> aha
[21:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> yeah
[21:03] <aLeXBrEtOn> it refers to the mount
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: solve your radio range problems: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/430MHz-70cm-250W-RF-Amplifier-Transmitter-Receiver-WOW_W0QQitemZ280304457309QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item280304457309&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1690|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
[21:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> we have 433Mhz
[21:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> with the ntx2
[21:04] <DRebellion> ouch
[21:04] <DRebellion> 95 quid
[21:04] <aLeXBrEtOn> won't work anyway
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> would http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SMC-MOBILE-TRANSCEIVER-70cm-AMATEUR-BAND-GOOD-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ230331390973QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item230331390973&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1690|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 work?
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> ending _very_ soon
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> seems oddball
[21:05] <jcoxon> no
[21:05] <jcoxon> the transmitter is 434.xxx
[21:06] <jcoxon> you'd need to play with the eeprom
[21:06] <jcoxon> and not sure it does ssb
[21:06] <jcoxon> receivers are generally expensive
[21:06] <jcoxon> people are happy to help out with providing them
[21:07] <DRebellion> that would be much appreciated
[21:07] <jcoxon> depending on where you launch there might some there
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> I was just idly watching ebay
[21:07] <DRebellion> anybody round reading, uk?
[21:07] <aLeXBrEtOn> that;s what we discussed yesterday
[21:07] <jcoxon> if not the 'UKHAS Network' is just starting up
[21:07] <Laurenceb> is there a python equivalent to fprintf?
[21:07] <DRebellion> hehe
[21:07] <jcoxon> so i tracked todays flight
[21:07] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/track/
[21:09] <jcoxon> you'd be suprised the range that those transmitters get when in the air
[21:09] <jcoxon> and we have very sensitive receivers
[21:10] <DRebellion> So, you think we could get away without using our own radio receivers?
[21:10] <jcoxon> yes and no
[21:10] <jcoxon> yes on the day
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> how much deafer are the rx modules that are sold with the transmitters?
[21:10] <jcoxon> but it does make it hard to debug
[21:10] <DRebellion> that's true
[21:10] <DanielRichman> and very hard to test, don't forget
[21:10] <jcoxon> thats what i mean't
[21:10] <DRebellion> well
[21:10] <DanielRichman> sorry ;)
[21:11] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:11] <DanielRichman> especially because when you're on the ground the range is trashy - so you'd have to go seeking for a UKHAS member
[21:11] <DRebellion> DanielRichman, what was the prep for the Abortion rs thingy?
[21:11] <aLeXBrEtOn> is this really relevant?
[21:11] <DRebellion> very
[21:11] <DanielRichman> Not atall. Ask me on jabber ;)
[21:11] <DRebellion> gonna get a detention tomorrow
[21:12] <DRebellion> XD
[21:12] <DanielRichman> You were always going to get one - you can join kester.
[21:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> *sigh*
[21:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> guys
[21:12] <aLeXBrEtOn> is $70 reasonable for a chute?
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> IMO no.
[21:12] <jcoxon> no
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> It's a square of fabric.
[21:12] <jcoxon> with a hole
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> Couple of bits of bamboo, few moments sewing, ...
[21:13] <DRebellion> rough estimate in £ for our payload?
[21:13] <DRebellion> oh right
[21:13] <DRebellion> sewing...
[21:13] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: whats that kml with the rogallo?
[21:13] <aLeXBrEtOn> where do you guys get yours from?
[21:13] <aLeXBrEtOn> chutes
[21:14] <Laurenceb> oh nvm
[21:16] <DRebellion> So you all make your chutes by hand?
[21:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> ok fine we'll get some curtains from a store
[21:17] <aLeXBrEtOn> maybe a nice floral pattern ;-)
[21:17] <jcoxon> DRebellion, no i got mine
[21:17] <jcoxon> bought it
[21:17] <jcoxon> actually i got it off RocketBoy last launch
[21:17] <jcoxon> its a rocket one - quite small
[21:17] <DRebellion> how big would it need to be for our payload?
[21:18] <jcoxon> check the chart on the wiki
[21:18] <aLeXBrEtOn> depends on how much it weighs-and we don't know that
[21:18] <jcoxon> i'd build the payload and then see how much it weighs
[21:18] <jcoxon> wouldn't rush it, take your time
[21:18] <DRebellion> about 1 metre?
[21:19] <DRebellion> jcoxon, thing is, we need to secure funding from somwhere
[21:19] <DRebellion> our school has a program where they will help with projects like this
[21:19] <DRebellion> but obviously we need to prepare a detailed report
[21:19] <jcoxon> well then average it and get it at a later date
[21:19] <DRebellion> before we can commit and start buying parts
[21:19] <jcoxon> you don't want a heavy payload and a small parachute
[21:19] <DRebellion> jcoxon, but if we don't get it, then it's a no-go
[21:20] <DRebellion> ok
[21:20] <DRebellion> let's say 1.5 metres for the chute
[21:20] <jcoxon> i'm sure if you put in sensible ideas and explain your reasons
[21:20] <aLeXBrEtOn> stop right there
[21:20] <jcoxon> say refering to the chart and a rough estimation of weight
[21:20] <aLeXBrEtOn> 1.5m is massive
[21:20] <DRebellion> i know
[21:21] <DRebellion> fine 1.25
[21:21] <DRebellion> that's a medium descent rate
[21:21] <aLeXBrEtOn> we need more like 0.9m
[21:21] <DRebellion> for 1kg
[21:21] <DRebellion> w/e
[21:21] <DRebellion> We just need to know cost
[21:21] <aLeXBrEtOn> our payload won't weigh 1kg!
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> it's going to be closing on that
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[21:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> 1m para
[21:22] <DRebellion> fine
[21:22] <DRebellion> 1m is good
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> you've got to count the parachute in the weight
[21:22] <DRebellion> how much does the chute weigh?
[21:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> OK, we buy a pro one or some curtains?
[21:22] <DRebellion> somewhere in between
[21:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> ...
[21:22] <DRebellion> buy one
[21:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> pro curtains?
[21:22] <DRebellion> nah
[21:22] <DRebellion> buy one
[21:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> :P
[21:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> OK
[21:22] <aLeXBrEtOn> lemme find one
[21:22] <DRebellion> hmm
[21:23] <DRebellion> i guess we could sell space on the payload
[21:23] <DRebellion> like
[21:23] <DRebellion> 100g max
[21:23] <DRebellion> pay us moneys
[21:23] <DRebellion> and your teddy bear goes to space
[21:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> ...no
[21:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> no-one will buy it
[21:24] <DRebellion> meh
[21:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> I can't find a 40 inch para
[21:24] <aLeXBrEtOn> biggest is 30 inch
[21:24] <DRebellion> metric manM
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Icom-PCR-1000-DSP-Receiver-with-Palm-IIIC-Controller_W0QQitemZ280323889046QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item280323889046&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318
[21:24] <DRebellion> METRIC
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> did someone get an icom1000?
[21:25] <aLeXBrEtOn> got one
[21:25] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/list_of_launches
[21:25] <aLeXBrEtOn> 42 inch :P
[21:25] <Laurenceb> me
[21:25] <aLeXBrEtOn> nice and cheap
[21:25] <aLeXBrEtOn> 18 dollars
[21:25] <Laurenceb> kml to download
[21:25] <DRebellion> fine
[21:25] <DRebellion> why is everything in dollars?
[21:25] <DRebellion> surely there are suppliers in the uk!?
[21:26] <DanielRichman> DRebellion: teddy bear going to space - must do. or perhaps a stuffed rabbit
[21:26] <DanielRichman> Just atleast, when it gets to 30k, can we have a photo of it freezing?
[21:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> there are no UK suppliers
[21:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> maybe we can drop it
[21:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> with a miniature parachute
[21:26] <aLeXBrEtOn> the teddy^
[21:26] <DanielRichman> haha
[21:27] <DanielRichman> how about program the arduino to auto-release it on descent, at a reasonable height
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: you have to be able to track it if you drop it.
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> aLeXBrEtOn: so set it on fire first.
[21:27] <DRebellion> rofl
[21:27] <DanielRichman> rofl
[21:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> haha
[21:27] <DRebellion> aww
[21:27] <DRebellion> not cool daniel
[21:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> the petrol would freeze at that height ;)
[21:27] <DanielRichman> Great minds think alike?
[21:27] <DRebellion> napalm biatch
[21:27] <DRebellion> fools seldom differ.
[21:27] <DRebellion> now
[21:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> no
[21:27] <DRebellion> the problem is
[21:27] <DRebellion> receiving
[21:27] <aLeXBrEtOn> not really
[21:27] <DRebellion> we could always nip down to the local ham club?
[21:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> also true
[21:28] <aLeXBrEtOn> maybe they rent them somewhere?
[21:28] <DRebellion> nah
[21:28] <DRebellion> we don't know how to operate them properly anyway
[21:28] <DRebellion> just treat it as a fun exercise for the hams
[21:28] <DRebellion> they get to use their hobby to track down ours?
[21:28] <Tigga> oooh
[21:29] <Tigga> burning teddies
[21:29] <Laurenceb> theres kml up on the wiki
[21:29] <Tigga> that's an idea for Nova 11
[21:30] <jcoxon> DRebellion, hehe a lot of the people here are hams
[21:30] Nick change: jcoxon -> M6JCX
[21:30] <DanielRichman> Besides... We could make the teddy radioactive and track it with a geiger counter
[21:30] <DRebellion> M6JCX, i would go for a license, but the cost of the hardware is huge
[21:30] Nick change: M6JCX -> jcoxon
[21:31] <DRebellion> can't really do balloon AND ham
[21:31] <DRebellion> btw, are cosmic rays a threat to our arduino?
[21:31] <jcoxon> no they aren't
[21:31] <jcoxon> you don't need a hardened arduino
[21:31] <DRebellion> fair do's
[21:31] <DanielRichman> DRebellion: part of the school's funding program involves benifts to the people invovled. Just through "becoming a ham x3" in
[21:31] <DanielRichman> need to implement ecc ram in arduino
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> how noisy is 20uV for a HF reciever?
[21:32] <DRebellion> just hack on some flash memory
[21:32] <DRebellion> take apart a usb stick
[21:32] <Laurenceb> like you do
[21:32] <Laurenceb> thats hardly trivial
[21:32] <Laurenceb> better using an sd card on the spi bus
[21:33] <DRebellion> hehe
[21:33] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, i reckon they are going to continue to fly this balloon
[21:33] <jcoxon> and not cutdown
[21:33] <DRebellion> DanielRichman, i don't think school funding is going to buy our radio receivers
[21:33] <DanielRichman> the main advantage for using a usb stick is, that in theory (i've read, not tried) the Arduino USB connection can support using it without any hacking
[21:33] <jcoxon> they are dumping tunes of ballast
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: maybe. About now would be the time.
[21:33] <jcoxon> tonnes*
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: USB host and usb sevice are very different things
[21:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> so, can I make a pitch to them?
[21:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> we need 290 quid
[21:34] <DRebellion> aLeXBrEtOn, price list
[21:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> including chute
[21:34] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil: Yeah... But I still swear, I've read somewhere. Will have to look it up tomorrow
[21:34] <DRebellion> break it down foo'
[21:34] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, its isn't possible
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: going down though
[21:34] <jcoxon> they are both usb clients
[21:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> just add a 30 dollar chute to the one we had before
[21:34] <aLeXBrEtOn> can't be arsed to type that stuff again
[21:35] <DanielRichman> Oh right, here it is
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> oh 32277 -> 32307
[21:35] <DanielRichman> This page... although yes, you're right. I misread -- appears to require another ftdi chip
[21:35] <DanielRichman> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/UsbMemory
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> 10m/min isn't really shooting up though.
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> 30m/min is getting there though
[21:37] <jcoxon> if i was them i'd carry on
[21:37] <Laurenceb> interesting
[21:37] <Laurenceb> a host controller
[21:37] <jcoxon> they've pissed off most of the hams anyway
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> seems to have leveled off.
[21:40] <DRebellion> What's the callsign/tracking link again?
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> last two were 32550
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> http://aprs.fi/?call=KC2TUA-8&mt=m&z=11&timerange=3600
[21:40] <DRebellion> thanks
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> tyhough you'll need to enter kc2tua-8 in the track box
[21:41] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, yeah they are climbing
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: falling
[21:41] <jcoxon> 9913m here
[21:41] <jcoxon> thats up according to what i've been recording
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: the last 4 minutes have been within 20 feet of 32450
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> from the tracker display
[21:42] <jcoxon> yeah but compared to 30mins ago thats up
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> seems to be bouncing up and down, but trending up. 32815 now
[21:46] <jcoxon> yeah over 10km
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> 600ft then 300ft rise last couple of mins
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> I suppose consistent with big drops.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> of ballast
[21:49] <jcoxon> wow just dumped 20secs
[21:49] <jcoxon> yeah they ain't landing this thing
[21:49] <jcoxon> they are going for it
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Or the ham in contact with it is
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[21:51] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: http://aprs.fi/?call=KC2TUA-8
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> the runaway balloon
[21:51] <natrium42> hehe, yeah jcoxon pointed me to it
[21:51] <Laurenceb> sunset atm
[21:51] <Laurenceb> should be starting to lose lift
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> would you normally want to maintain height as it cools?
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> I mean at night
[21:52] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> at the onset of night - not shoot up?
[21:52] <Laurenceb> if you drop too much you get condensation
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it's reasonable to expect at least anohter couple of hours of comms
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> through v01BIL
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: where are you getting 'pissing off hams' from?
[21:55] <jcoxon> the ballooning mailing lists
[21:56] <jcoxon> basically its qrm'ing a voice repeater
[21:56] <jcoxon> as well as doing aprs
[21:58] <jcoxon> 11km
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> http://aprs.fi/?lat=65.2935&lng=-30.1465&mt=m&z=4&timerange=3600 - should maybe be a shaded map
[22:02] <jcoxon> oh they are aborting
[22:02] <jcoxon> as its going over the airport
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> are all squares - if the thing hasn't moved - sites where they could repeat?
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> 20:53 <SpeedEvil> Even an international airport.
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> gotta fall quite fast to make the airport
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> ~10m/s
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> ~4m/s or so to hit land
[22:05] <jcoxon> they'll cut the payload away
[22:06] <jcoxon> and the balloon will shoot up
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> well - yes - but the radio is on the payload surely
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> hmm. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/F1-4-CS-50mm-2-3-Fixed-CCTV-Camera-Board-Mount-Lens-m_W0QQitemZ160323110984QQihZ006QQcategoryZ48627QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
[22:14] <jcoxon> they tried to abort but i think it failed
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[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Looks like it's actually going directly over the runways.
[22:22] <jcoxon> yeha, what are the chances
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> it's going to
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> _much_ more rapid output
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> and coming down
[22:24] <Laurenceb> seems to be fallng
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> be comedic if it lands in the middle of the runway :)
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> though not going steep enough for that
[22:26] <jcoxon> its cutdown
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> 6m/s or so
[22:28] <jcoxon> now its going to land in the airport
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if that's fast enough to get it to come down on land
[22:28] <jcoxon> how silly safer to keep it flying
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> I make the likely touchdown about half an hour.
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> if that's half the track line - it's pretty close
[22:29] <natrium42> is somebody going to get it?
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[22:30] <SpeedEvil> (to splashing)
[22:30] <natrium42> OMG, IT SHOULD BE ME, SINCE I AM IN CANADA!!
[22:30] <natrium42> wait, that sounded too exited
[22:30] <natrium42> and it's damn far away :(
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> It depends on cross-track - 1km cross-track could put it in the sea
[22:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.telekin.co.uk/b3ta/081212domokebab.gif
[22:43] <Laurenceb> lots of lakes
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> turning lots.
[22:44] Action: SpeedEvil points Laurenceb to the 'satellite' button on the tracker.
[22:46] Action: SpeedEvil should have asked his contact in canadian air traffic control about it.
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[22:46] <jcoxon> they ain't getting that payload back
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> Ok - 52mph
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> It's at 3Km or so
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> falling at 5m/s or so
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> so 10 mins
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> or about 10 miles
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[22:48] <SpeedEvil> It looks like it's probably not going in the water
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> but I'm guessing it'll lose tracking at 2-3000 feet at best
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> is that forest?
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> actually - if it slows a _leetle_ bit more - it might just make a lake.
[22:54] <Laurenceb> oooh lake
[22:54] <Laurenceb> :-S
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> looks targeted for hte middle
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what the terrain elevation is
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> ah - losing packets
[22:56] <jcoxon> lake time
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> depending on the altitude of the lake
[22:57] <Laurenceb> might just reahc th eother side
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> if it's at sea level
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> if it stops...
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> whee
[22:57] <jcoxon> yeah it'll make it
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> no alt for more lakes
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> Assuming the image is corectly rectified
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[22:58] <SpeedEvil> and that lake isn't variable fullness
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> It's only about 100 feet from the edge - according to the imagery
[23:03] <DRebellion> It's stopped updating?
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> at 718 feet
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> we don't know the altitude of the lake
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> If the lake fills a bit in winter - it's in the water
[23:04] <DRebellion> mmm
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> otherwise it looks like a 14 mile or so hike to get it
[23:05] <DRebellion> Payload has landed (6:58 PM EST).
[23:05] <DRebellion> from twitter
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> Well
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> I don't see how they can know that other than through telemetry
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> it might have splashed
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> In unpopulated areas google is known to be a bit out on the imagery.
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> it's about 20 pixels onto the land
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> and if the lake rises by a dozen meters in the winter...
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[23:08] <Laurenceb> theres another lake nearby with high res
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> No way it could have made it though
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> 250m - even if lake is at sea level, it's got another minute in the air, tops. Or half a mile at 27mph
[23:12] <Laurenceb> wonder what tx power
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> and what alt that lake is
[23:13] <Laurenceb> looks like most of these repeaters are on comms masts
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[23:23] <SpeedEvil> gander airport is 150m above sea level
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> and there are 9000 people in the area of it
[23:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html
[23:26] <Laurenceb> its strangely hypnotising
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[23:27] <sYx66> natrium
[00:00] --- Mon Mar 23 2009