highaltitude.log.20090319

[00:02] <G8KHW> you would need to get any licence exempt transmitter system you make tested to EN 300 220
[00:07] <Laurenceb> surely modules are ok?
[00:09] <G8KHW> yes modules certified to EN 300 220 are ok - but if slap a power amp on the end U need to get the whole lot tested
[00:09] <Laurenceb> yeah I know :P
[00:09] <Laurenceb> being naughty
[00:10] <Laurenceb> I'll check the datasheet t see
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[00:11] <G8KHW> so is the CC1100 chip part of a overall module?
[00:11] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:12] <Laurenceb> ah yeah Ti say it meets EN 300 220
[00:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.sbszoo.com/bear/sable/sable3.htm
[00:14] <G8KHW> whats the Ti module
[00:14] <G8KHW> ?
[00:15] <Laurenceb> the CC1100 is made by Ti
[00:15] <G8KHW> thats a chip isn't it?
[00:15] <Laurenceb> eTiny is basically CC1100 on a board
[00:15] <Laurenceb> yes
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[00:18] <G8KHW> so its the eTiny thats EN 300 220 complient
[00:20] <Laurenceb> nope, the Ti docs say the CC1100 is EN 300 220 complient if used with correct antenna
[00:20] <Laurenceb> the eTiny is poorly documented
[00:21] <G8KHW> cos the Ti spec says "Suited for systems targeting compliance
[00:21] <G8KHW> with EN 300 220 (Europe)"
[00:21] <Laurenceb> hmm ok
[00:21] <Laurenceb> well if its 10mw theres nothing wrong
[00:21] <G8KHW> which just means that manufactureses using it should be able to make boards that comply
[00:21] <G8KHW> incorrect
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[00:22] <G8KHW> if i make a 10mw trnsmitter its not licence exempt
[00:22] <Laurenceb> well theres no difference to a radiometrix module s there?
[00:23] <G8KHW> radiometrix modules are EN300 220 tested and approved - its in the specs
[00:23] <Laurenceb> sure
[00:23] <Laurenceb> but my system isnt
[00:23] <Laurenceb> coax, antenna ect
[00:24] <G8KHW> thats fine the specification includes the allowed antenna gain
[00:24] <G8KHW> & they are passive components
[00:25] <Laurenceb> as is everything on the eTiny board
[00:25] <G8KHW> thats how the regulation works it allows people to build transmitters with LE modules without having to cert
[00:25] <G8KHW> what is?
[00:25] <Laurenceb> passive
[00:26] <Laurenceb> everything between the CC1100 and the antenna (ie impedance matching and transmission line) is passive
[00:26] <G8KHW> but the chips aren't certified its the finished modules that are
[00:26] <Laurenceb> surely it doesnt matter
[00:26] <Laurenceb> Ti say they will meet specs
[00:27] <G8KHW> if its designe correctly
[00:27] <Laurenceb> ie no active components between it and the antenna
[00:27] <G8KHW> I should just ask for the EN300 220 complince from the eTiny distributor
[00:28] <Laurenceb> guess so
[00:31] <G8KHW> They will almost certainly have got it if they are selling into Europe
[00:31] <G8KHW> adaptive modules?
[00:32] <G8KHW> look like a UK distributor
[00:34] <Laurenceb> yeah they sell it
[00:34] <Laurenceb> its UK
[00:36] <G8KHW> they should check complience
[00:37] <G8KHW> But slapping a PA on it will void the EN 300 220
[00:37] <Laurenceb> not if you've got a license tho ?
[00:38] <shellevil> in principle you can get licenses for anything
[00:38] <G8KHW> yeah if your using its a ham on the ground in a ham band
[00:38] <shellevil> 1.2GW 100MHz transmitters, ...
[00:39] <G8KHW> true
[00:39] <G8KHW> \me loads up 400W on 434MHz hummmmmmmmmmmm
[00:39] <G8KHW> damn slah
[00:39] <G8KHW> slash
[00:39] <Laurenceb> I know your keen on HAM and part of the ham scene is following the rules to the letter... but ensuring everything is EN 300 220 when we know for sure its fine seems a bit excessive to me
[00:40] <G8KHW> but you started by saying you were going to add a PA - which isn't fine
[00:41] <Laurenceb> Id work out how to do that properly with a license :P
[00:42] <Laurenceb> or move it to 868
[00:42] <G8KHW> yeah - let me know when you have done that laurence
[00:42] <Laurenceb> and get it tested
[00:42] <G8KHW> then we can all use that route
[00:46] <G8KHW> nights
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[00:46] <Laurenceb> cya
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[07:14] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:30] <natrium42> ohai
[07:31] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[07:31] <jcoxon> cool on the test flight
[07:31] <jcoxon> i have lectures till 17:00GMT
[07:31] <jcoxon> but will rush back for the end
[07:32] <natrium42> k
[07:32] <natrium42> can't you skip? :P
[07:34] <jcoxon> i really can;t
[07:34] <jcoxon> can't
[07:34] <jcoxon> sorry
[07:35] <natrium42> yeah, j/k
[07:36] <jcoxon> it might finish early - who knows
[07:36] <jcoxon> whats the forecast like?
[07:37] <natrium42> i still haven't done the spot parser for laptop
[07:37] <natrium42> but it should be quick...
[07:37] <natrium42> going for 6m/s ascent
[07:39] <jcoxon> okay sounds like a plan
[07:41] <jcoxon> made lots of progress with the DListening client
[07:42] <jcoxon> all you now need to do is open fldigi, start the client and tune the radio - it automatically pre configures fldigi for the right settings :-p
[07:43] <natrium42> neat, the less work the better
[07:43] <jcoxon> yeah that was the plan
[07:44] <jcoxon> if hamlib is set up i could have the server tell teh client which freq to tune to...
[07:44] <jcoxon> however setting hamlib up can be an arse
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[07:59] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[07:59] <jcoxon> is there a chance at some point that you guys could tell us the format of your telem strings so we can adjust the Listener thigny?
[08:01] <jcoxon> for tomorrow's launch
[08:03] <edmoore> yes
[08:03] <edmoore> but not right now
[08:03] <edmoore> just got back from london
[08:03] <edmoore> not yet slept
[08:03] <edmoore> going to bed
[08:03] <jcoxon> np
[08:03] <jcoxon> night
[08:03] <jcoxon> bbl
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[09:06] <plantain> so I've got the high altitude bug
[09:08] <plantain> I soared up to 10,000ft in a glider having gone solo recently
[09:08] <plantain> and want to see higher! :)
[09:08] <plantain> natrium42, 'sup
[09:09] <plantain> I'm guessing you're the same natrium42 from dsdev
[09:13] <natrium42> heya
[09:14] <natrium42> whoa nice, gliding sounds awesome
[09:14] <plantain> yeah
[09:14] <plantain> four months of intensive training and I have my licence
[09:14] <plantain> been soaring with eagles at every opportunity
[09:15] <natrium42> cool, congrats
[09:15] <natrium42> i have tried tandem paragliding once
[09:15] <natrium42> it's so quiet -- unlike a small airplane with it's loud engine
[09:16] <plantain> I intend to give both paragliding and hang gliding a try too
[09:17] <plantain> but sailplane gliders get the highest :P
[09:18] <natrium42> :)
[09:18] <natrium42> well, welcome to the channel
[09:19] <plantain> I spotted your high altitude project, very impressive indeed
[09:19] <natrium42> thanks
[09:19] <natrium42> going to do a test launch today
[09:19] <natrium42> in a few hours
[09:20] <plantain> so your balloon got to around 60,000ft, right?
[09:20] <natrium42> closer to 100k
[09:20] <plantain> how far did it end up going overall?
[09:22] <natrium42> just above 30km
[09:23] <natrium42> horizontally about 100km iirc
[09:23] <plantain> interesting
[09:23] <plantain> and what stopped it going higher? the balloon just pops I assume
[09:25] <natrium42> yep, once it expands too much
[09:26] <plantain> hrmm, so I guess the lighter I can make it, the less I need to inflate it, the higher it can go
[09:30] <natrium42> exactly
[09:30] <natrium42> :)
[09:30] <natrium42> or use a different kind of balloon
[09:30] <plantain> where did you find your balloon and parachute?
[09:32] <natrium42> balloon from kaymont
[09:32] <natrium42> KCI 1200 model
[09:32] <natrium42> chute on ebay :)
[09:41] <plantain> hrmm I wonder if I could DIY a parachute
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[10:19] <natrium42> ok, everything seems to work
[10:19] <natrium42> going to catch some sleep
[10:19] <natrium42> 6 am already :S
[10:20] <plantain> 'night
[10:37] <Ferris-Wheel> gut nacht, banana man
[11:12] Nick change: Ferris-Wheel -> \
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[12:38] <jcoxon> hey all
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[12:46] <Laurenceb> hello
[12:49] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
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[12:49] <jcoxon> hi Omegas
[12:53] <Omegas> hello
[12:53] <jcoxon> welcome to #highaltitude
[12:54] <Omegas> thanks.. came here from the HALO3 website
[12:54] <Laurenceb> no xboxes here
[12:54] <Omegas> hehe
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[12:54] <Laurenceb> hallam
[12:54] <Laurenceb> hi
[12:55] <Omegas> which time is the launch happening?
[12:55] <Laurenceb> looks like london on fri :-/
[12:55] <hallam> its fergus
[12:55] <hallam> yeah, we are thinking of scrubbing
[12:55] <Laurenceb> pity
[12:55] <Laurenceb> looks good for me
[12:55] <Laurenceb> do you have a spare envolope?
[12:55] <Laurenceb> - I'll pay obviously
[12:56] <hallam> erm, yeah we can probably launch you iuw
[12:56] <hallam> we have balloons and gas
[12:56] <jcoxon> Omegas: the canadian launch?
[12:56] <Omegas> yes
[12:56] <Laurenceb> what size envolopes?
[12:56] <hallam> Omegas: sorry, we are the uk launch
[12:57] <Laurenceb> do you have anything small?
[12:57] <hallam> Laurenceb: we've got 3x 1500g
[12:57] <Laurenceb> :-/
[12:57] <jcoxon> ummm i think 16:00 GMT
[12:57] <hallam> we've also got a dodgy 500g
[12:57] <jcoxon> so in 3 or 4 hours time
[12:57] <Laurenceb> sounds good
[12:57] <Laurenceb> how didgy?
[12:57] <Laurenceb> *dodgy
[12:57] <hallam> last one shreaded on the groung
[12:58] <hallam> *ground
[12:58] <Laurenceb> I only need to get to 6Km
[12:58] <hallam> during fill
[12:58] <Omegas> hallam: heh ok.. natrium42 has this "chat box" on his site that brought me to this channel
[12:58] <Laurenceb> hm... is it corroded?
[12:58] <Laurenceb> - UV or something?
[12:59] <jcoxon> Omegas: yeah you are on the right channel
[12:59] <jcoxon> i think he is sleeping right now
[12:59] <hallam> Laurenceb: not sure, just old
[12:59] <jcoxon> here are the logs: http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/zeusbot/highaltitude.log.20090319
[12:59] <Laurenceb> ok... I'm not sure to be honest...
[12:59] <hallam> Laurenceb: if you think you could work under a 200g we have a whole bunch of them
[12:59] <Omegas> jcoxon: might be
[12:59] <Laurenceb> oh cool
[12:59] <Laurenceb> hallam: yeah 200gram is just perfect
[13:00] <jcoxon> hmmm just ran a forecast for natrium's flight - its not the greatest place in the world to launch balloons - a lot of water around!
[13:00] <jcoxon> (the forecast has it landing on land so not to worry!)
[13:00] <jcoxon> Omegas: you in canada?
[13:00] <hallam> Laurenceb: ok, you're welcome to use them, there's not much we use them for
[13:01] <Laurenceb> wheres the balloon burst calculator on thw wiki?
[13:01] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[13:01] <jcoxon> mid way down
[13:02] <Laurenceb> ta
[13:02] <Laurenceb> did you get the ballast sensor?
[13:02] <Omegas> jcoxon: nope, in Finland :)
[13:02] <jcoxon> okay cool - you interested in high altitude stuff?
[13:02] <Omegas> well, haven't done anything myself... but interested, sure
[13:02] <jcoxon> great - well this is the place to be if you are interested
[13:03] <Omegas> followed some of natrium's earlier launches
[13:03] <jcoxon> cool
[13:03] <Omegas> still using one of his pics as my desktop bg :)
[13:03] <jcoxon> heard about our trans-atlantic mission we are working on?
[13:03] <Laurenceb> hallam: yeah I can get to 18Km at 5m/s
[13:03] <Omegas> jcoxon: nope... sounds like quite a challenge
[13:04] <jcoxon> yeah, this flight is a test for the flightcomputer and satellite tracker
[13:04] <jcoxon> Laurenceb: did you send the sensor? still haven't recieved anything
[13:04] <plantain> which way do balloons tend to go, east or west?
[13:04] <plantain> east I'm guessing
[13:05] <jcoxon> plantain: yeah the jetstream in our latitudes goes west to east
[13:05] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: yeah
[13:05] <jcoxon> Laurenceb: oh okay, perhaps today (i left before the post)
[13:05] <Laurenceb> hallam: ok... firday looks best for me
[13:05] <plantain> well my latitude is -35 iirc
[13:05] <plantain> any idea where it goes there? :P
[13:05] <jcoxon> plantain: where you based?
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[13:05] <plantain> South Australia
[13:05] <plantain> if it goes anywhere east it's fine
[13:06] <jcoxon> http://squall.sfsu.edu/gif/jetstream_sohem_00.gif
[13:07] <plantain> that looks easty
[13:07] <jcoxon> yeah looks about right
[13:07] <Laurenceb> hallam: what do you say to making it a bit later tomorrow, around 4pm ?
[13:07] <jcoxon> though it can do funny things sometimes so you need to keep an eye out
[13:07] <jcoxon> in preparation for the trans-atlantic flight i run 6 day forecasts
[13:08] <jcoxon> e.g. http://spacenear.us/gfs/2009-03-19-2.png
[13:08] <Laurenceb> hallam: I'd still aim to get over as early as poss
[13:08] <Omegas> jcoxon: what kind of hw will you be using as the flight computer?
[13:08] <jcoxon> so if we can keep a balloon at about 11km altitude for more then 2 days we might actually make it
[13:08] <plantain> so when picking a balloon weight - I should pick as high as possible for maximum height, right?
[13:09] <plantain> and then how far should that balloon be inflated? to full size or enough to get it flying or what?
[13:10] <G8KHW> The burst calculator http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data will give u some idea
[13:11] <jcoxon> Omegas: http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=flightcomputer:specs
[13:11] <jcoxon> Omegas: its an avr with a venus gps module, spot sat transmitter and a 40m HF radio transmitter
[13:11] <Omegas> ah, there's a wiki... great
[13:11] <jcoxon> oh and a ballast tank
[13:11] <jcoxon> plantain: we work on weight and free lift
[13:12] <jcoxon> so you want to put enough helium to neutrally hold you payload then you add some more to get it to go up
[13:12] <jcoxon> so you want the lighest payload with as little helium as possible (though that means a very slow ascent) in the biggest balloon
[13:13] <jcoxon> the slower the ascent the more you'll be blown horizontally
[13:13] <jcoxon> thats the tradeoff
[13:13] <plantain> indeed
[13:14] <plantain> so these little 30g baloons on ebay aren't going to get me far, are they?
[13:14] <jcoxon> no they are rubbish
[13:14] <jcoxon> you want 200g +
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[13:14] <Omegas> heh, sugar cube ballast
[13:15] <jcoxon> yeah we stole that idea
[13:15] <jcoxon> denatured alcohol will probably be best
[13:15] <plantain> what's a good price for them? I see 1kg ones on ebay for ~30$
[13:15] <jcoxon> if you are interested we have a mailing list you can sign up to: http://groups.google.com/group/atlantic_halo?pli=1
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[13:16] <jcoxon> its for interested people + those who might help out tracking over the radio
[13:16] <jcoxon> plantain: that sounds quite a good deal - though the older the balloon the worse it will perform
[13:16] <jcoxon> plantain: G8KHW supplies our balloons in the UK
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[13:16] <Omegas> jcoxon: the amount of liquid in the tank is pretty hard to measure though
[13:17] <jcoxon> Omegas: indeed it is
[13:17] <plantain> is G8KHW donating them, or selling them?
[13:17] <jcoxon> selling
[13:17] <jcoxon> Omegas: its more for diagnositics as the planned logic for hte ballast is based on the reaction of dumping ballast and the altitude change
[13:18] <plantain> so could I be of any use in tracking this halo thing from Australia?
[13:19] <jcoxon> plantain: ummm probably not - a little far
[13:19] <plantain> figured so
[13:19] <jcoxon> but you'll be able to see its progress online
[13:19] <Omegas> how often have you lost the payload... because of malfunctioning parachute of something?
[13:20] <jcoxon> Omegas: we lose less and less
[13:20] <jcoxon> here in the UK the problem is the sea
[13:20] <jcoxon> we've recovered the last 10 launches
[13:21] <jcoxon> we are getting better at forecasting the flights which helps decide whether its worth the risk
[13:22] <Omegas> interesting really
[13:22] <Omegas> I need to do some work now.. but I'll try to be back for the launch :)
[13:22] <jcoxon> cool
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[13:25] <Omegas> one of our customers in Finland makes all kinds of fancy gadgets btw.. http://www.vaisala.com/weather/applications/upperairobservation.html
[13:26] <G8KHW> yea the softrocks from MC have arrived
[13:26] <jcoxon> yeah vaisala, they are the standard for radiosondes
[13:26] <jcoxon> G8KHW: great :-D
[13:26] <Omegas> jcoxon: I have visited their factory a couple of times... nice labs
[13:27] <jcoxon> they makes these cool autolaunchers
[13:27] <Omegas> but they didn't want to give me any samples :(
[13:27] <jcoxon> that every day just launch a balloon without you needing to help
[13:27] <jcoxon> :-(
[13:27] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[13:27] <jcoxon> got teaching so will miss the launch
[13:27] <jcoxon> natrium42: good luck!
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[13:33] <plantain> so SIRF GPS chipsets are as a rule bad?
[13:33] <Laurenceb> very bad
[13:34] <Laurenceb> its not like they are even any good on the ground IMO
[13:34] <Laurenceb> fairly good at getting a lock
[13:34] <Laurenceb> but the position fix is dodgy
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[13:51] <plantain> sleep time, good luck with this launch
[14:03] Action: Laurenceb has just hoticed the baloon burst is over a village called orwell
[14:03] <natrium42> hi
[14:04] <natrium42> we will probably leave for the launch site in 1:30 hours
[14:06] <Laurenceb> cool
[14:06] <Laurenceb> how high ?
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[14:21] <Laurenceb> hallam: ping
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[15:34] <Laurenceb> liftoff soon
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[15:37] <rjharrison> natrium42: R we in action for today?
[15:38] <nitroball> natrium42's bro yah
[15:38] <rjharrison> cool I have the tracker up
[15:38] <nitroball> just tested the webcam
[15:39] <Laurenceb> yo bro
[15:39] <nitroball> sup?
[15:39] <Laurenceb> satya wimming with a fatboy slimmin
[15:40] <Laurenceb> :P
[15:41] <Laurenceb> whats onboard?
[15:41] <nitroball> testing Spot tracking
[15:41] <nitroball> http://international.findmespot.com/
[15:42] <Laurenceb> ok, with venus gps?
[15:42] <rjharrison> How long to launch aprox?
[15:42] <Laurenceb> hmm I see a track
[15:44] <nitroball> lol, tested picture capture
[15:44] <Laurenceb> ooh hello
[15:44] Action: Laurenceb waves
[15:46] <rjharrison> I have them
[15:46] <nitroball> we're driving up to the lauch site... that'll take well over an hour
[15:47] <rjharrison> Did you contact the local airport peopel this time
[15:58] <natrium42> balloon is rated below volume that needs premission
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> this is to test some of the stuff for the atlantic halo thingy?
[15:59] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> launch is when?
[16:02] <natrium42> we still haven't left yet
[16:02] <natrium42> getting a pipe for balloon filling
[16:02] <natrium42> dunno where the one i had went
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Beware of dutch paintings.
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> They are not pipes.
[16:03] <natrium42> haha
[16:04] <natrium42> so probably launch around 1800GMT
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> SPOT+?
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[16:08] Action: Laurenceb ponders buying a train ticket
[16:08] <natrium42> plus?
[16:08] <natrium42> SPOT++ :)
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> Spot and what else, I meant
[16:15] <natrium42> gm862-gps as backup
[16:16] <natrium42> also one of those spy cams
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[16:26] <fnoble_lab> hey, had natrium42 launched yet?
[16:26] <natrium42> not yet, realistic launch time is 1800GMT
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[16:27] <edmoore> what's happening?
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[16:29] <G8KHW_> Edmoore: Launch is now at 18:00gmt
[16:30] <G8KHW_> What's the concensus for Churchill launches?
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> 'Oh yessss'
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> sorry.
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkOQq8FBqu4
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> (churchill dog)
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[16:36] <Laurenceb> G8KHW_: last I heard Hallam wasnt launching
[16:36] <Laurenceb> but theres some spare 200 gram balloons so I could launch anyway
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[16:38] <G8KHW_> Ah ok - ta - I'd happily bring some balloons over if needed
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> A few tests from gradually increasing altitudes'd be interesting
[16:39] <Laurenceb> hallam and fergus have vanished, but fergus said they have some 200 gram ones, enough to get me all the way to 18Km
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> see what air thickness it starts to have problems in
[16:39] <Laurenceb> I'm going for 7Km
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> sounds reasonable
[16:40] <G8KHW_> Sounds like a plan
[16:41] <Laurenceb> only have to go about 12Km horizontal to reach ears
[16:41] <Laurenceb> and its away from houses and major roads at realese and through the flight
[16:42] <Laurenceb> ooh hang on... new gfs model
[16:42] <Laurenceb> its all over the place :-/
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[16:42] <jcoxon> Hey all
[16:42] <jcoxon> Launch yet?
[16:44] <Laurenceb> nope
[16:44] <G8KHW_> Jcoxon: na delayed
[16:44] <G8KHW_> 18:00 now
[16:46] <jcoxon> Oh okay
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: considered launching and recovering same site?
[16:47] <jcoxon> I'll be around then
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: or does that not work
[16:47] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: prob not a good idea in cambridge
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:47] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: still looks ok for me at 5Km now
[16:47] Action: SpeedEvil forgets that everywhere is not all fields.
[16:47] <Laurenceb> but the forecasts are all ove rthe place
[16:48] <jcoxon> Laurence you want mid suffolk, lots of fields and no motorways
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> remember the cow repellant on the payload.
[16:48] <jcoxon> I'll be back later
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[16:49] <Laurenceb> hmm henry lands in south london :/#
[16:49] <edmoore> G8KHW_: we may be laucning still
[16:49] <edmoore> launching*
[16:49] <Laurenceb> really, what float alt?
[16:49] <edmoore> there's a flight profile that works
[16:50] <edmoore> really slow ascent (2.5m) to 28km
[16:50] <Laurenceb> right
[16:50] <G8KHW_> Any idea when?
[16:51] <edmoore> 10am ish
[16:51] <edmoore> we're still crubching numbers on this right now
[16:52] <Laurenceb> hey yeah
[16:52] <Laurenceb> bit close to the coast
[16:52] <edmoore> it's about 10 mins from where i live
[16:52] <Laurenceb> if you go up at 3 its fine
[16:52] <G8KHW_> Ah ok - if uare going to launch tomorrow is prob best
[16:53] <Laurenceb> Horsham?
[16:53] <edmoore> Pulborough
[16:53] <edmoore> 10am
[16:53] <G8KHW_> Edmoore: shall i bring the balloons?
[16:54] <G8KHW_> I canget there early
[16:54] <edmoore> I would say so yes please
[16:54] <edmoore> we've got a window that seems to work and we'll probably try and go for it
[16:54] <edmoore> there is still a LOT to do here though
[16:54] <G8KHW_> Ill aim 4 9:00
[16:55] <Laurenceb> ok I'll book a train
[16:55] <edmoore> that'd be great
[16:55] <edmoore> we're still not sure if it's worth floating
[16:55] <edmoore> i'm inclined to want to reduce the complexity given the list of things to do
[16:55] <Laurenceb> henry need sto float?
[16:55] <edmoore> depends on defining need
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[16:55] <Laurenceb> do we have a spare 434MHz rx ?
[16:56] <edmoore> Laurenceb: we may not be able to help hugely tomorrow
[16:56] <edmoore> in terms of chasing
[16:56] <edmoore> my car is rather booked
[16:56] <Laurenceb> I have my icom, but I'd need some sort of battery/mains
[16:56] <edmoore> we probably will need our radios too
[16:57] <edmoore> Steve might be able to help though
[16:57] <Laurenceb> I have an antenna and icom
[16:57] <Laurenceb> but no power other than croc clips and mains adaptor
[16:57] <Laurenceb> hopefully it should just be a matter of picking up the rogallo
[16:58] <Laurenceb> but yeah I dont want to get in the way of recovering nova10
[16:58] Action: SpeedEvil has lots of car bats - but I don't think your leads are long enough.
[16:58] <Laurenceb> as thats going to be much more tricky
[16:58] <Laurenceb> maplin sell lead acid cells
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> oh - you have one near you, don't you
[16:59] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:59] <Laurenceb> hidiously overpriced
[16:59] <Laurenceb> and I'd need to charge it :-/
[17:00] <Laurenceb> well I'll take along my icom anyway
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[17:03] <SpeedEvil> you might always go with 10*AA, and a 10*AA battery holder
[17:03] <Laurenceb> noooo
[17:03] <Laurenceb> lead acid is nicer
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> I know - but AA at least have otehr uses
[17:04] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe I should get back to my room and start getting orgainised...
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> wave
[17:04] <Laurenceb> lots of stuff to charge/pack
[17:04] <Laurenceb> in a bit...
[17:05] <Laurenceb> need to make a box to carry the payload on the tube as well
[17:05] <Laurenceb> luckly I dont look muslim
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> Don't forget. Write in big letters on the outside 'Not A Bomb'
[17:06] <Laurenceb> I'll take my wheely suitcase as well
[17:06] <Laurenceb> - suitcase with alu frame bolted on and large wheels
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[17:07] <Laurenceb> hi there
[17:09] <Laurenceb> so your coming to the launch tomorrow?
[17:10] <Laurenceb> I'm taking my icom, but dont have a power supply
[17:10] <G8KHW_> Me? Yes if ots on
[17:11] <Laurenceb> yeah, it looks like it
[17:11] <G8KHW_> Ill brinf my radios if you want
[17:11] <Laurenceb> I have croc clips,,, just need something with 12v
[17:11] <Laurenceb> yeah thanks
[17:11] <Laurenceb> I'd get a lead acid cell if maplins werent a rip off
[17:12] <G8KHW_> I have a motor cycle battery
[17:12] <Laurenceb> heavy?
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> 12v?
[17:13] <G8KHW_> Yep both
[17:13] <Laurenceb> hehe is it manageable?
[17:13] <Laurenceb> <5Kg ?
[17:13] <G8KHW_> Yeah
[17:14] <G8KHW_> I use it for my ft 817
[17:14] <Laurenceb> icom "only" takes about 800ma
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[17:14] <Laurenceb> so it should last fine
[17:14] <G8KHW_> About 8 ah
[17:14] <Laurenceb> ha
[17:15] <Laurenceb> ok I'll bring the croc clips
[17:16] <Laurenceb> hmm.... icom, antenna, cable, latop, playload, food, spare parts for emergency reapairs...
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[17:16] <Laurenceb> this will be heavy :P
[17:17] <alexk> alexei's brother here. we're on our way :D
[17:17] <G8KHW_> Yea
[17:17] <alexk> gonna test streaming over 3g network.
[17:18] <Laurenceb> awsome
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[17:24] <alexk> looks like it's working :D
[17:25] <Laurenceb> I dont see anything
[17:26] <alexk> on spacenear.us/tracker ?
[17:26] <alexk> try refreshing
[17:26] <alexk> right now we're just in the car
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[17:27] <alexk> is anyone seeing the video feed?
[17:29] <Laurenceb> nope
[17:29] <Laurenceb> I think its a problem with flash player
[17:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.isengard.co.uk/images/JPEGS/2100_RD10-3-09front%20and%20side%20view.jpg
[17:30] <Laurenceb> thats cool in a very odd way
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[17:33] <Laurenceb> edmoore: how does 9am sound?
[17:33] <Laurenceb> - arriving
[17:36] <edmoore> ok
[17:36] <edmoore> can you make your way to chu?
[17:37] <Laurenceb> not really what with all the kit
[17:37] <Laurenceb> - it'll weight a ton
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[17:37] <alexk> ok i've got a confirmation that video feed was successful
[17:37] <alexk> the connection is flakey since we're on the move.
[17:38] <Laurenceb> yeah my flash is broken
[17:38] <alexk> it should be constant once we get to the launch site
[17:38] <Laurenceb> edmoore: steve might be coming from that direction
[17:38] <alexk> stopping broadcast for now
[17:44] <rjharrison_> .
[17:44] <Laurenceb> train is booked
[17:45] <Laurenceb> I'm off, cya
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[17:45] <rjharrison_> edmoore: Boo
[17:45] <rjharrison_> U up in the air tomorrow?
[17:48] <alexk> weather conditions: overcast. 0 degrees C
[17:50] <edmoore> no
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[17:51] <edmoore> 2morrow maybe
[17:51] <jcoxon> hey all
[17:51] <rjharrison_> hu jcoxon
[17:52] <rjharrison_> hi
[17:52] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison_
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[17:58] <jcoxon> hmmm is spot linked into the tracker?
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[18:03] <alexk> jcoxon: yes.
[18:03] <jcoxon> oh greak
[18:03] <jcoxon> great*
[18:03] <jcoxon> just checking
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[18:16] <jcoxon> oh dear
[18:16] Action: jcoxon is watching something compile
[18:17] <alexk> eta is 1900 GMT
[18:17] <jcoxon> okay
[18:21] <jcoxon> G8KHW, are the rockmites pre-soldered?
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[18:29] <Omegas> any updates on the Canada launch?
[18:29] <jcoxon> 19Z launch
[18:30] <edmoore> 25
[18:30] <edmoore> gosh
[18:30] <jcoxon> one robot
[18:30] <edmoore> G8KHW: do you have any cutdowns lying around?
[18:31] <edmoore> the tube of acrylic I swear we had has drifted somewhere.
[18:33] Action: Laurenceb puts the mini rogallo on charge mode
[18:33] <Laurenceb> this beats previous payloads :P
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[18:33] <edmoore> :p
[18:34] <Laurenceb> hi there
[18:34] <Laurenceb> I see photos :P
[18:34] <alexk> still en route. got a picture feed going :D
[18:34] <alexk> it's snowing outside
[18:35] <Omegas> whoah, you're tipping over :)
[18:35] <alexk> haha yeah the camera almost fell off!
[18:38] <jcoxon> :)
[18:39] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: did you get the post?
[18:40] <jcoxon> yes thanks
[18:40] <jcoxon> will package it up and send it to natrium tomorrow
[18:40] <Laurenceb> cool
[18:52] <G8KHW> edmoore: yes I have a few - I'll bring them along
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[19:02] <alexk> going through edge and no service areas....
[19:03] <jcoxon> okay
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[19:05] <fnoble_lab> whats the latest?
[19:05] <jcoxon> still travelling to the launch site
[19:05] <fnoble_lab> ok
[19:05] <fnoble_lab> i can see the pictures on the tracker :)
[19:05] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:05] <fnoble_lab> are they being transmitted to his home?
[19:05] <alexk> looking at a possible launch site
[19:06] <alexk> picture feed is sent from my laptop over tethered phone
[19:06] <alexk> they're sent directly to spacenear.us
[19:07] <jcoxon> fnoble_lab, i've made a new version of my DL client for fldigi
[19:08] <jcoxon> at some point could you see if it works on your eeepc
[19:08] <jcoxon> when ever you have time
[19:08] <jcoxon> as if there is a cusf launch sometime it would be a great oppurtinity to test
[19:08] <jcoxon> the DListening system
[19:11] <fnoble_lab> jcoxon: will give it a go if i get time
[19:11] <jcoxon> cool cool
[19:11] <fnoble_lab> perhaps could leave it running in the IfM with a whip
[19:11] <fnoble_lab> as there is interwebs there
[19:12] <jcoxon> only if its no trouble
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[19:25] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, !!!!
[19:25] <jcoxon> stop playing with the tracker
[19:25] <Laurenceb> oh crap
[19:25] <Laurenceb> scuse me
[19:25] <Laurenceb> I'm working on the ground control, forgot it was firing off http GETs to the server
[19:26] <Laurenceb> oh well that must mean it works
[19:26] <jcoxon> deleted
[19:26] <rjharrison_> login and delete the point
[19:26] <rjharrison_> hehe
[19:30] <Omegas> I thought you just invented a teleporter!
[19:30] <jcoxon> Omegas, damn you found out our secret
[19:31] <Omegas> oh no, you must kill me now
[19:31] Action: jcoxon instructs zeusbot to execute Omegas
[19:32] <Omegas> yikes
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[19:35] <alexk> found a launch site. setting up. network is edge, so we'll see how video streaming goes
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[19:38] <edmoore> yo
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[19:40] <alexk> ok we're setting up. will try video feed in a bit
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[19:47] <rjharrison_> yay
[19:48] <rjharrison_> How many watching spacenear.us?
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[19:49] <christiank1> hello. do you guys know of anybody having this hobby in Switzerland?
[19:49] <jcoxon> hey christiank1
[19:49] <jcoxon> haven't heard of anyone
[19:50] <jcoxon> you potentially the first?!
[19:50] <christiank1> haha -- true, I am thinking one of the problems doing this here, is that the mountains are a bit of a show stopper :)
[19:51] <jcoxon> makes it a challenge :-D
[19:51] <christiank1> when you are recovering your payload.
[19:51] <christiank1> haha
[19:51] <christiank1> very true :D
[19:51] <jcoxon> some of us are in the UK -we have the sea
[19:51] <christiank1> yeah - read about some balloons that got lost.
[19:51] <christiank1> just gotta make it watertight :P
[19:51] <jcoxon> but its certianly doable
[19:51] <jcoxon> you should go for it
[19:52] <christiank1> yeah - I think I'll read more about it. :)
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[19:52] <alexk> picture feed is a go
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[19:57] <edmoore> good work on live feeds
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[19:57] <edmoore> I'm not sure we'll have this tomorrow
[19:58] <edmoore> fnoble_lab: has sal arrived with melters yet?
[19:59] <Tigga> how done is it?
[19:59] <Tigga> as in... is it worth me coming in about midnight?
[20:00] <edmoore> probably almost certainly
[20:01] <Tigga> righto... may well do so if this essay goes well
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[20:13] <SpeedEvil> Is this in the states?
[20:13] Action: SpeedEvil has just woken up, and is confused at the timestamps.
[20:14] <jcoxon> canada
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> Ah. Not the states then :)
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[20:17] <alexk> ok, weather scrub
[20:17] <alexk> sorry guys
[20:17] <jcoxon> oh crappy
[20:17] <jcoxon> really? whats wrong?
[20:17] <alexk> it started snowing & it's very windy
[20:17] <edmoore> :(
[20:17] <jcoxon> fair enough
[20:17] <edmoore> jcoxon: the latest prediction for tomorrow
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[20:18] <edmoore> lands about... 2 miles from my house
[20:18] <edmoore> no exaggeration
[20:18] <alexk> maybe tomorrow
[20:18] <alexk> later
[20:18] <alexk> gonna drive back
[20:18] <alexk> <-- natrium42 btw
[20:18] <jcoxon> no worries alexk
[20:19] <jcoxon> edmoore, hehe :-D
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[20:19] <SpeedEvil> should the picstream update, or reload needed?
[20:22] <jcoxon> edmoore, you going ahead?
[20:22] <edmoore> think so
[20:22] <edmoore> hardware allowing
[20:22] <jcoxon> great
[20:22] <jcoxon> whats the hardware?
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[20:29] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if snow would sublime off at high alts
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> though gouing through active clouds may shred a balloon
[20:31] <Tigga> edmoore: is the prediction stuff still online?
[20:31] <edmoore> yes
[20:31] <Tigga> good
[20:32] <Tigga> (where?)
[20:32] <edmoore> simulate 3m/s ascent, 5.5 descent, 25000m, float time of 3600, launch at 10am tomorrow
[20:32] <edmoore> cuspaceflight.co.uk/predict
[20:32] <Tigga> aah, excellent
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> It should really take astrological sign too :)
[20:33] <edmoore> i have built a server and brought it up
[20:33] <edmoore> it will be doing pretty major monte carlos on the flight sims
[20:33] <edmoore> we spent so long today considering multi-variate worst-case scenarious with this dual balloon float thing
[20:33] <edmoore> really need it all automated
[20:34] <Tigga> looks pretty nice - just skirts around London
[20:34] <Tigga> does a nice flyby of Heathrow... but quite high up
[20:34] <edmoore> yeah
[20:34] <edmoore> lands 2 miles fro me
[20:35] <Laurenceb> right I have google earth tracking integrated :P
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[20:35] <Tigga> and even if we cock up and launch late it's still nice
[20:35] <Laurenceb> this should be fun to watch at least
[20:35] <edmoore> oi bugger off
[20:35] <edmoore> i need to calculate some more possibilities here
[20:35] <edmoore> but am getting server busy
[20:35] <Laurenceb> its not me
[20:35] <edmoore> it's tigga
[20:35] Action: SpeedEvil did 2 runs
[20:36] <Tigga> ooops... sorry
[20:36] <Tigga> I've buggered off
[20:36] <Laurenceb> buggery is a crime
[20:36] <edmoore> np :p
[20:36] <edmoore> we'll have to sort that one out
[20:36] <Tigga> back to project management essay :(
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> depends on the legalities and proclivities.
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> For some it's an avocation.
[20:36] <edmoore> thanks SpeedEvil
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: also - first run resulted in no nice picture - I had wind overlays turned on
[20:38] <edmoore> yes- they're broken atm
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> k
[20:41] <Laurenceb> hmm rogallo at 8.28V
[20:41] <Laurenceb> should finish charging at 8.4
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> float for 1h don't forget
[20:42] <Laurenceb> yeah it does that automatically
[20:42] <Laurenceb> hmm log out of the server in google earth the screen goes blank
[20:43] <Laurenceb> even tho I cached everything
[20:54] <jcoxon> hey everyone
[20:54] <jcoxon> is anyone going to be free tomorrow to use my setup to track the CUSF launch if it goes head?
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[20:58] <Laurenceb> hmm whats happening with the launch
[20:58] <Laurenceb> dont see anything
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> scrub
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> snow
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> and wind
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> and bears
[20:59] <Laurenceb> oh no
[20:59] <Laurenceb> :-(
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[21:05] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, will you be around tomorrow?
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> what time?
[21:06] <jcoxon> i think they are launching in the morning - aiming for 10am
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[21:06] <SpeedEvil> Was planning to sleep in.
[21:06] <jcoxon> oh okay
[21:06] <jcoxon> no worries
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> what would it involve?
[21:07] <jcoxon> login into my laptop with vnc occasionally and make sure its decoding
[21:08] Action: SpeedEvil tries to reboot brain.
[21:08] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, its no problem
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> there is a embedded java client?
[21:08] <jcoxon> don't worry i'll find someone else
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> so I just hit the address in the browser?
[21:09] <jcoxon> oh i'll have a look
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> I'm actually really tired, so will be going to bed in a bit, so am unlikely to manage a lie in anyway
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> so might as well
[21:09] <jcoxon> i'll email you instructions then if you are up have a go if not please don't worry
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> Ok - you have address?
[21:10] <jcoxon> i can use the one on the mailing list
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> that works
[21:13] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> My router apparantly crashed and rebooted, and my 'nooo - not the defaults' script failed to fire.
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> So it went to 160kbps DSL speed, due to the ludicrous SNR margin it has by default.
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> And my line has gotten profiled at 250K - though I'm now syncing at 2M. Meh.
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> hopefully will be better by morning
[21:16] <Laurenceb> you run custom firmware?
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> well...
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> No
[21:18] <plantain> <SpeedEvil> So it went to 160kbps DSL speed, due to the ludicrous SNR margin it has by default.
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> But the modem is linux based, and allows a limited login
[21:18] <plantain> better than the alternative
[21:18] <plantain> I have had 80% packetloss for the last 8 hours
[21:18] <plantain> because my modem decided 4 was a safe and responsible SNR
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> it does not by default let you set a SNR margin target lower than the default.
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> However, it has a comedy error.
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[21:19] <SpeedEvil> hence the line 'adsl configure --snr 65447
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> which is 3dB target SNR, not ~23, which it's been defaulting to.
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[21:27] <Laurenceb> oh you overflow the variable?
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> ˆyeah
[21:32] Action: SpeedEvil stabs BT.
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> Your DSL connection rate: 2176 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
[21:34] <G8KHW> its probably the line stability algorithem indicating you have a iffy line
[21:34] <jcoxon> hey G8KHW
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> G8KHW: it is - and I do
[21:35] <Laurenceb> IP profile = your bandwidth drops off over a continuous download?
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: no - this is the internal cap that BT put on your DSL connection recieve line - to stop data piling up at your end. It's supposed to be a bit less than your current speed.
[21:36] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: problem is one sync at a much lower speed can cause the profile speed to crash to stupid numbers, and not recover for hours or days.
[21:36] <Laurenceb> so if you start off a download, the datarate will tail off?
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> no
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> the line is synced at 2M/s
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> At the far side of BTs network, where my virtual circuit is connected, the line is limited to 135k of tcp/ip data going down it.
[21:37] <G8KHW> whatever ATM line speed you get or IP profile will remain the same thoughout the PPP session
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> this is to prevent lots of buildup at their routers
[21:38] <G8KHW> nope
[21:38] <G8KHW> its what happens when the line keeps going up and down in atm speed
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> as if they don't limit the amount they try to send down your line artificially, you get large buffers building up till it throws it away.
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> I know.
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> I was trying to simplify the horribly fucking complex thing.
[21:39] <G8KHW> so they set a consistent speed rather than keep adapting to different speeds each time
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> My problem is that from about 1 hour around midnight my line will sync to as low as 1/4 of the rate
[21:39] <G8KHW> you need to sort your line problem
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> G8KHW: and how - it's not a fault.
[21:40] <G8KHW> why does it do down to 1/4 atm speed
[21:40] <G8KHW> that sounds like a fault 2 me
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> G8KHW: problem is - by definition when the engineer is here - it's never around midnight.
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> so it tests fine
[21:41] <G8KHW> yeah - its probably house wireinging - does anything go on/off at that time?
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> And yes - the aim is to keep the line profile more or less stable, but the underlying reason for this is that various parts of the network run on a 2 hour or more cycle of speeds, and can't cope with varying ip profile as you resync, which wouldn't be technically impossible - just doesn't work with their systems
[21:41] <G8KHW> in the house - like heating
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> nope
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> tried it with mains off at switch
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[21:42] <SpeedEvil> tried looking at spectral output of modem, to see if anything popped up - no.
[21:42] <G8KHW> could be nearby - rf
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> Tried wandering around the hood, looking for large tesla coils.
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> I've gotten another line installed for unrelated reasons, and I'm going to try it on that.
[21:43] <G8KHW> most dsl problems are down to the bell wire pickup - get a frontplate fitted
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> got one
[21:43] <G8KHW> :-(
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> I'm actually quite far from the exchange - ~6 miles.
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> attenuation 63dB
[21:43] <G8KHW> yeah - that doesn't help
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> On a good day, I can sync to 2.5M without problems
[21:44] <G8KHW> yeah well don't expect that all the time
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> I don't.
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> However, it's rather annoying that it will rarely keep an IP profile of over 512K
[21:45] <G8KHW> it wont - in general the IP profile will follow the ATM linespeed down withing esconds
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> I know.
[21:46] <G8KHW> but take up to a week to follow it up
[21:46] <G8KHW> so you need a consistently high speed for about a week
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:46] <G8KHW> (ATM)
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> Radio 4 knocks out about 15kbits/sec too :)
[21:47] <G8KHW> so all i can suggest is you get your scope out and find the source of your midnight noise
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> Guess what.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> No result.
[21:47] Action: SpeedEvil needs a spectral analyse.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> r
[21:48] <Laurenceb> you could use an icom
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> I've contemplated a large A/D logger, to log the line at a few MHz
[21:48] <G8KHW> or don't use your dsl line then
[21:48] <Laurenceb> that would work too
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> and then attempt to do passive TDR on it
[21:48] <G8KHW> that way it doesn't see the lower rate and doesn't follow it down
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> tried that too.
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> unfortunately, it's not always that time - just 90% of the time.
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> that time of day
[21:49] <G8KHW> :-(
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> had DSL problems, or are with OpenReach?
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> G8KHW
[21:50] <G8KHW> well the copper wire is openreach - the DSLAMs at the other end of it are BT Wholesale or an ISPs (LLU)
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> ah - wasn't sure where the breakpoint was.
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> thought BTW took over at the inner bits of the exchange
[21:52] <G8KHW> its all a bit of a mess IMO - Ofcoms fault - 2 much regulation
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:52] Action: SpeedEvil sighs at the original 'no you cannot provide cable tv' decision to BT.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> or was it the post office back then.
[21:53] <G8KHW> can you log the ATM line speeds
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah - done that.
[21:53] <G8KHW> and given that to BT
[21:53] <G8KHW> ?
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> even generated pretty graphs of the spectral analysis of the modem.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> problem is getting past first line support
[21:54] <G8KHW> yeah
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> again not helped by the 'no, customers can't speak to btw' thing
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Regulation hasn't been totally bad. We're not as badly screwed DSLwise as australia for example.
[21:55] <G8KHW> yeah - the problem sounds like its in the openreach copper - or your house wiring (or the guy next door with the tesla coils)
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> DSL modem plugged into open faceplate hidden socket, 12V car battery, along with laptop on battery and mains off
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> I'm 99.99% sure it's not mains in my house at least.
[21:57] <G8KHW> how does your bt wire come to the house?
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Only thing I came up with was someone taking electric showers with a noisy shower late at night
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> overground for 100m, then to a cabinet, then underground to the exchange.
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> most of the overground wire has been recently replaced
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> but that doesn't work, as some of hte outages are 3h
[21:58] <G8KHW> so a pole and 2dropwire"
[21:58] <G8KHW> "DROPWIRE"
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> probably 2-3 poles, but yes
[21:59] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how to convince openreach to come out at midnight.
[21:59] <G8KHW> think antenna
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> I know.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> If that was the case, I would have expected a sharp spike down around one frequency
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> of allocated bits
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> and it just goes down broadband really, nothigh startling.
[22:00] <G8KHW> a prelonged burst of noise will case the modem to re-train and the session to drop and come back at a slower speed
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> I have graphs of allocated bits per channel every 10 mins.
[22:00] <G8KHW> prolonged
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> I know.
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[22:01] <G8KHW> bbl
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> I've gone so far as to correct some wording on the wikipedia page about the UK DSL standard, from the actual standard :)
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> Problem is I'm reluctant to report it as there is a moderate charge if no problem found
[22:06] <jcoxon> damn, i was so onto a winner there using vnc on symbian
[22:07] <jcoxon> just the available version is for an older OS version :-(
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> anyway - plan to try installing one of the providers offering free trials of ADSL, and see if it suffers from the same problem.
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> If not, move DSL over
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Random: A Cousin was lead engineer on the BT vision project
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[22:32] <natrium42> back home
[22:32] <natrium42> Laurenceb, when are you launching tomorrow?
[22:32] <Laurenceb> yeah
[22:32] <Laurenceb> hard luck with the weather
[22:33] <natrium42> sms were delayed by a ridiculous amount of time too
[22:33] <Laurenceb> just preparing...
[22:33] <Laurenceb> one of my wing spars is bent :-/
[22:33] <natrium42> so i couldn't go ahead before that was verified as working
[22:33] <natrium42> they only got delivered on the drive back
[22:33] <natrium42> froze off my hands :D
[22:34] <Laurenceb> its ~4mm... not sure if I'll glue it
[22:34] <natrium42> CA!
[22:34] <Laurenceb> gorilla glue
[22:34] <natrium42> ah
[22:34] <Laurenceb> its going to throw the wings off
[22:34] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[22:34] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
[22:34] <Laurenceb> but only by ~3mm
[22:35] <jcoxon> natrium42, if you are around tomorrow you are welcome to use my laptop/radio to track it you want
[22:35] <jcoxon> i've got it all rigged up, someone just needs to stick the decoding lines onto the signal
[22:35] <natrium42> hmm
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[22:36] <natrium42> Laurenceb, you are going to upload positions to tracker, no?
[22:36] <edmoore> yo
[22:36] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:36] <edmoore> sims still looking ok for tomorrow
[22:36] <Laurenceb> callsign UKHAS
[22:36] <edmoore> jcoxon: you need a telem string don't you
[22:37] <natrium42> Laurenceb, ok, cool
[22:37] <plantain> jcoxon, what radio setup do you use?
[22:37] <jcoxon> well the raw stuff will go into http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[22:37] <natrium42> so when do i have to wake up?
[22:37] <natrium42> :P
[22:37] <jcoxon> plantain, i've got a macbook running fldigi connected to my ft-817
[22:37] <edmoore> 10am gmt
[22:37] <edmoore> hi plantain
[22:37] <natrium42> O_O
[22:37] <plantain> hi
[22:37] <jcoxon> anyone can do it
[22:38] <natrium42> that's when i went to bed yesterday!
[22:38] <jcoxon> i've simplified pretty much everything
[22:38] <jcoxon> natrium42, haha don't worry about it
[22:38] <plantain> jcoxon, so what kind of range do you get on it?
[22:38] <natrium42> Laurenceb, feel free to delete "Crew" btw
[22:38] <jcoxon> for this launch (which is in the uk) a couple of hundred km
[22:39] <plantain> nice
[22:42] <edmoore> 150km tomorrow
[22:43] <edmoore> ish
[22:43] <edmoore> actually a bit less
[22:43] <edmoore> i want to cutdown 120km from cambridge
[22:43] <edmoore> I'm basically trying to aim for my back garden
[22:44] <gordonjcp> what could *possibly* go wrong?
[22:45] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[22:53] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:ground_data
[22:53] <Laurenceb> now with google earth support :D
[22:54] <edmoore> G8KHW: do you have a 600 or 700 or 800G balloon in stock? We think our high speed 500 tugger might burst a bit too early with the numbers as they are currently
[22:58] <edmoore> jcoxon: there was a video around of the 2-balloon rig in flight
[22:59] <edmoore> the one you did. Do you remember where?
[23:04] <G8KHW> edmoore: I see what I have and bring a selection
[23:05] <Laurenceb> edmoore: you live near penhurst?
[23:12] <edmoore> Laurenceb: pulborough
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTIzNzQ3Njc2N2ZQWU1ISXNZVkZ
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> fMV8xX2wuZ2lm
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> oops - on one line
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:16] <Laurenceb> need a monte carlo optimiser
[23:17] Action: SpeedEvil passes Laurenceb a loaded die.
[23:17] <Laurenceb> guess it all depends on the chute
[23:17] <G8KHW> edmoore: found a 350 and a 500 - I'll bring them (and the rest)
[23:17] <Laurenceb> as thats what you have least control over
[23:18] <edmoore> ok. This could still work
[23:18] <G8KHW> I'll bring a 800 too
[23:18] <edmoore> oh ok
[23:18] <edmoore> that would be super
[23:19] <G8KHW> have 1000s and 1200s also
[23:20] <edmoore> I'll just do some sums
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[23:21] <Laurenceb> release at 1pm, 2.53m/s to 27Km, hover for 300s, descend at seal level 5m/s
[23:24] <natrium42> sYx66, trajecotry looks good for saturday morning
[23:24] <natrium42> *trajectory even
[23:24] <sYx66> great awesome amazing super good
[23:24] <natrium42> however it's going to be -6 celsius
[23:25] <natrium42> at 10 am
[23:25] <natrium42> but it's going to rise to -3 celsius at noon
[23:25] <sYx66> i have a tent. can the inverter handle a heater?
[23:25] <natrium42> not really sure
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> unlikely
[23:25] <sYx66> propane then
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> at least - not with sane sized inverters and batteries
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:26] <natrium42> it doesn't give a proper sine wave, and it's only 100 watt or so
[23:26] <natrium42> there are some gas heaters for camping
[23:26] <sYx66> my tent is for 4 ppl
[23:26] <sYx66> yeah propane
[23:26] <natrium42> maybe they are not too expensive?
[23:26] <Laurenceb> or, 1pm, 2.365m/s, to 27km, descent 6.5, float 120s
[23:27] <sYx66> weather can still change too
[23:27] <natrium42> and we have to dress better :P
[23:27] <sYx66> the forecasts have been wrong for 24 hours and this is 48
[23:27] <natrium42> and do all the steps we can inside car
[23:27] <natrium42> yeah
[23:28] <sYx66> in theory we can do everything inside the car until we have to do the balloon
[23:30] <G8KHW> nights
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[23:50] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, zomg, the new gps chips shipped
[23:51] <sYx66> how many
[23:51] <sYx66> looked like a big box, so probably 2?
[23:55] <Laurenceb> *10^2.397940009
[00:00] --- Fri Mar 20 2009