highaltitude.log.20090317

[00:00] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[00:02] <Laurenceb> edmoore: I'm going to set the rogallo to return to churchill, do you think thats ok? theres ground control with an RC transmitter
[00:03] <edmoore> no
[00:03] <edmoore> ears
[00:05] <Laurenceb> you launching from ears?
[00:05] <edmoore> no
[00:06] <Laurenceb> you think send it to ears?
[00:06] <edmoore> yes
[00:06] <Laurenceb> hmm ok
[00:06] <edmoore> cambridge to built up
[00:06] <edmoore> too*
[00:06] <Laurenceb> will be a shame not to see it land
[00:06] <edmoore> for sure
[00:06] <Laurenceb> well it will return over the antarctic survey
[00:06] <Laurenceb> but there still houses ect
[00:06] <Laurenceb> guess so
[00:06] <edmoore> not nearly as much
[00:07] <edmoore> like a factor of 100 reduced
[00:07] <Laurenceb> I meant in the antarctic survey direction
[00:07] <Laurenceb> yeah
[00:11] <shellevil> can't you drive over to pick it up?
[00:12] <shellevil> won't there be a couple of hours before balloon cutdown/
[00:12] <shellevil> oh
[00:12] <shellevil> glide will take a while
[00:14] <shellevil> does hte glider or the payload touch down first?
[00:17] <Laurenceb> glider
[00:20] <Laurenceb> speedevil: you use ubuntu?
[00:21] <shellevil> no
[00:21] <Laurenceb> ever used evince?
[00:22] <shellevil> nope
[00:22] <Laurenceb> nvm then
[00:23] <shellevil> for book reading, I tend to convert it all to html, then I can run my backreference script over it to link all names back to their first occurances
[00:24] <Laurenceb> neat
[00:24] <Laurenceb> thats a really smart idea
[00:24] <Laurenceb> http://towerprocn.sh15.host.35.com/towerprocn/english/esc/ESC.html
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[00:26] <Laurenceb> they leave the flash protect fuse unwritten
[00:27] <Laurenceb> so you can pt on custom firmware
[00:28] <shellevil> fun.
[00:28] <fergusnoble> natrium42: think the prediction is fixed now
[00:44] <Laurenceb> will there be anything capable of supplying 1A@12v at the lanuch ?
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[00:46] <Laurenceb> I have crock clips to connect
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[07:18] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:22] <natrium42> hey jcoxon
[07:23] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[07:23] <jcoxon> hows it going?
[07:24] <natrium42> good, just testing my nmea parser
[07:24] <jcoxon> oh cool
[07:25] <jcoxon> what do you think about a 3 day cold test as suggested by mark?
[07:26] <jcoxon> this makes me happy: http://hackaday.com/2009/03/16/arduino-mega/
[07:26] <jcoxon> (i know its similar to your board)
[07:26] <natrium42> i don't really think it's necessary...
[07:27] <natrium42> hehe, pretty cool
[07:27] <jcoxon> i think it would be helpful but not at the risk of running out of weather to actually launch in
[07:28] <natrium42> have you ever seen components fail because of the cold?
[07:29] <jcoxon> no
[07:29] <jcoxon> but our components don't get as cold as these ones do
[07:29] <jcoxon> hour up and hour down doesn't really affect it
[07:29] <jcoxon> 3 days of ridiculously cold might
[07:29] <jcoxon> snox had heaters on board
[07:30] <natrium42> well, the DC/DC converter heats up a bit :P
[07:31] <jcoxon> true
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[07:42] <jcoxon> natrium42, i've found a 'good' tank
[07:43] <natrium42> pics plz
[07:43] <jcoxon> okay one sec
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[07:49] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157615362191667/
[07:51] <jcoxon> 5L, drill a hole in hte cap for the outlet and also a hole for the cable for hte sensor
[07:52] <jcoxon> and have the sensor run up the centre
[07:52] <jcoxon> perhaps even attaching it to the cap somehow to make it easy to put in
[08:00] <natrium42> cool, we have bottles like that too
[08:02] <jcoxon> great
[08:02] <jcoxon> okay laurence is sending the sensor to me today
[08:02] <jcoxon> so i'll stick everything in the post when i get it
[08:02] <jcoxon> shall i just stick the valves and tubing in, our shall i precut some of it?
[08:05] <natrium42> i can cut it
[08:06] <jcoxon> yeah thats probably best to suit the tank itself
[08:06] <jcoxon> ummm the only issue is that the common port and NC port on the valve are very close together so you need to trim the tubing a little so that they fit, i'll stick in an example
[08:07] <jcoxon> and i reckon it'll be worth some how fixing perhaps with glue
[08:08] <natrium42> silicone is fine?
[08:08] <natrium42> or some other glue?
[08:09] <jcoxon> well epoxy and alcohol don't go well together
[08:09] <jcoxon> i don't see why silicone won't work
[08:09] <jcoxon> the tubing is silicone rubber
[08:11] <jcoxon> without glue and a bit of tape they should hold fine
[08:11] <jcoxon> so with a bit of glue it 'll be even better
[08:11] <natrium42> sounds good
[08:12] <natrium42> hehe, it's nice that GPS also gives the date
[08:12] <natrium42> i can use it for file timestamps
[08:12] <jcoxon> oh cool
[08:13] <jcoxon> GPZDA?
[08:14] <natrium42> GPRMC
[08:14] <jcoxon> goes against NMEA
[08:14] <jcoxon> naughty naughty
[08:14] <jcoxon> oh wait
[08:15] <jcoxon> it doesn't
[08:15] <jcoxon> oops
[08:15] <jcoxon> field 9 is timestamp
[08:16] <natrium42> :D
[08:19] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison_
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[09:03] Action: natrium42 Zzz
[09:04] <jcoxon> natrium42, night
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[10:00] <mc-> rjharrison_ , is this the transmitter module you're using? http://www.lemosint.com/radiometrix/radiometrix_details.php?itemID=209
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[13:28] <jcoxon> hey mc-
[13:29] <mc-> hey jc, I've packed up the rockmites
[13:29] <jcoxon> great
[13:30] <mc-> http://raqi.ca/braq/projets/braq09-2/braq09-2.htm - nice technique for sealing solar balloons with a heatgun
[13:39] <mc-> jcoxon, can I pm you?
[13:39] <jcoxon> sure
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[14:35] <edmoore> hi all
[14:35] <edmoore> hi Ikarus
[14:36] <edmoore> jcoxon: all well?
[14:36] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[14:36] <jcoxon> yeah just revising
[14:36] <edmoore> :(
[14:36] <jcoxon> indeed
[14:37] <jcoxon> should be in theatre today but you don't learn much so decided to skip and revise instead
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[16:06] <jcoxon> http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/Mar16_2009.htm
[16:06] <jcoxon> so cool
[16:06] <jcoxon> microorgansim
[16:06] <jcoxon> s in the stratosphere
[16:37] <shellevil> umm. ' While the present study does not conclusively establish the extra-terrestrial origin of microorganisms,'
[16:37] <shellevil> is reaching a fair bit
[16:37] <jcoxon> hehe yeah
[16:43] <jcoxon> shellevil, do you have a radio licence? or a HF reciver?
[16:43] <shellevil> no, and no
[16:43] <jcoxon> okay
[16:43] <shellevil> well, yes, but it's probably too shitty to qualify
[16:44] <shellevil> as in it runs from 2*AA batteries, and was about 20 quid in 1985 or so.
[16:44] <jcoxon> okay, am trying to work out what 'base' stations i can count on for atlantic halo
[16:44] <shellevil> what freq?
[16:44] <jcoxon> 7.040 i think
[16:44] <shellevil> 10MHz or so?
[16:44] Action: shellevil ponders.
[16:45] <jcoxon> going to be the 40m band i think
[16:45] <shellevil> waackily enough, I have a really good ham shop nearby
[16:45] <shellevil> http://www.jayceecoms.com/
[16:46] <jcoxon> :-)
[16:46] <jcoxon> i wouldn't go out of my way to get a receiver if i were you
[16:46] <jcoxon> they are generally quite expensive
[16:47] <shellevil> yeah
[16:47] <shellevil> I was wondering if he might be amenable to a weeks rental.
[16:47] <jcoxon> oh thats an interesting idea
[16:47] <jcoxon> there is an icom scanner on ebay for ?100
[16:47] <shellevil> can only say no. I'll drop him an email.
[16:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:48] <jcoxon> make sure you say you won't transmit (perhaps say don't include the microphone)
[16:49] <shellevil> yeah - good point.
[16:53] <shellevil> on the ebay point - I have too much stuff already :(
[16:53] <shellevil> Need to get rid of some, not gain more
[16:53] <jcoxon> haha
[17:09] <gordonjcp> shellevil: what are you looking for?
[17:12] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, will you be willing to listen out for an Atlantic Halo launch?
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[17:15] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: can certainly try
[17:16] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: what are you transmitting on?
[17:16] <jcoxon> it'll be on 40m
[17:16] <gordonjcp> ok
[17:16] <gordonjcp> when?
[17:16] <jcoxon> i'm writing a python client that runs in the background and autouploads the data
[17:16] <jcoxon> in a couple of weeks
[17:16] <jcoxon> would you be happy to run it + fldigi to decode?
[17:17] <jcoxon> want to have a set of base stations dotted around to try and pick up transmissions
[17:19] <gordonjcp> sure
[17:19] <jcoxon> great
[17:20] <jcoxon> http://groups.google.com/group/atlantic_halo
[17:20] <jcoxon> a mailing list for listeners
[17:20] <gordonjcp> I'll see about getting access to the club shack with the 3-ele beam
[17:20] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:20] <jcoxon> oh cool
[17:20] <jcoxon> please sign up to the list (just so we can update you
[17:20] <jcoxon> )
[17:22] <gordonjcp> done
[17:22] <jcoxon> great
[17:23] <edmoore> done
[17:23] <jcoxon> edmoore, great
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[19:15] <Xenion> Guten Abend / Good Evening :-)
[19:30] <jcoxon> hey Xenion
[19:57] <natrium42> hi
[19:57] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[19:57] <natrium42> how's your mission, Xenion?
[19:57] <natrium42> jcoxon, going to push for a launch tomorrow morning
[19:57] <natrium42> are you going to be available?
[19:57] <jcoxon> natrium42, what time?
[19:57] <natrium42> maybe at 14:00 your time
[19:58] <natrium42> since light rain is expected later
[19:58] <jcoxon> yes/no
[19:58] <jcoxon> i'm free but i might be in the hospital library
[19:58] <jcoxon> what will you need done?
[19:58] <jcoxon> (i can always take my laptop)
[19:59] <natrium42> well, i am going to test live streaming
[19:59] <natrium42> so i guess monitoring the stream etc
[19:59] <natrium42> :P
[20:00] <jcoxon> yeah i can be free to do that
[20:00] <natrium42> also thinking of setting up a digicam to shoot snapshots and upload them to the tracker
[20:00] <jcoxon> i'll take my laptop
[20:00] <natrium42> ok, cool
[20:00] <jcoxon> that said i'm busy after 3.30
[20:00] <jcoxon> so the earlier the better
[20:00] <natrium42> k
[20:01] <natrium42> jetstream will be quite slow
[20:01] <jcoxon> between 12.30 and 3.30 GMT i'm free
[20:01] <natrium42> so i could even launch from home
[20:01] <natrium42> but maybe i will drive a few km west for safety
[20:01] <jcoxon> probably best
[20:01] <jcoxon> run wyoming? and cusf?
[20:01] <natrium42> i ran it yesterday
[20:02] <natrium42> should probably do today
[20:02] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:02] <Hiena> Groan... Did you ever faced with a strange "warm-up" situation with a gps?
[20:02] <natrium42> Hiena, how strange?
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[20:03] <natrium42> jcoxon, do you know what timezone the cusf landind predictor uses?
[20:03] <natrium42> is it UTC?
[20:03] <natrium42> *landing
[20:03] <jcoxon> i assume its UTC
[20:03] <Hiena> I means, the communication between the telemetry broken up. Missing characters, etc. After that, i hooked up the serial wire to computer and got same results. I left the GPS running, and half hour later when i started the terminal again, the communication was good.
[20:03] <natrium42> ok
[20:03] <jcoxon> ping edmoore
[20:04] <Hiena> Hooked up the radiomodem again, and no problem.
[20:05] <Hiena> Only one chaacter missing, but it's eaten by the radiomodem, so not a real problem.
[20:06] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[20:06] <edmoore> oh right
[20:06] <edmoore> yes gmt
[20:06] <natrium42> whoa, cusf thinks i will land in the middle of lake ontario
[20:06] <jcoxon> :-D
[20:06] <edmoore> well, actually unix time i think
[20:07] <natrium42> wyoming is too busy!
[20:07] Action: natrium42 looks at jcoxon
[20:07] <jcoxon> natrium42, not me
[20:07] <jcoxon> i'm on wunderground
[20:07] Action: natrium42 looks at zeusbot
[20:08] <jcoxon> natrium42, looking at wunderground the JS is quite fast
[20:08] <natrium42> yeah, weird
[20:08] <natrium42> that's not what i saw before
[20:10] <natrium42> might go for fast ascent rate then...
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[20:11] <natrium42> hi steve
[20:12] <jcoxon> natrium42, wyoming says lake landing from my run
[20:12] <jcoxon> if you launched from barrie you'll be fine
[20:12] <jcoxon> basically it'll go directly east
[20:14] <natrium42> going to check thursday & friday
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[20:18] <jcoxon> hi Mike|Ghost
[20:19] <Mike|Ghost> Hello
[20:22] <jcoxon> natrium42, a small window on thurs of no JS
[20:22] <natrium42> when?
[20:23] <jcoxon> 18Z
[20:23] <jcoxon> 18:00 GMT
[20:23] <natrium42> 43.9547,-81.5185 is roughly where i launched halo1/2
[20:23] <natrium42> ok, i will check it
[20:24] <jcoxon> hehe i was going to suggest there
[20:24] <jcoxon> a launch from there tomorrow will be fine
[20:24] <jcoxon> will land just east of newmarket
[20:24] <natrium42> also 18Z?
[20:24] <jcoxon> both tomorrow and thurs
[20:24] <jcoxon> those runs are at 12Z
[20:25] <jcoxon> to an alt of 30000m
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[20:25] <natrium42> it just travels a bit far :P
[20:25] Action: DrLick sexes #highaltitude
[20:25] Action: shellevil is male.
[20:25] <Mike|Ghost> Hi DrLick, Told you it was Freenode
[20:25] Nick change: DrLick -> Ferris-Wheel
[20:25] <Ferris-Wheel> you lied : P
[20:26] <jcoxon> natrium42, i'm getting the same tracks pretty much for the next 48hrs
[20:26] <natrium42> lucknow to peterborough is over 300km
[20:26] <natrium42> good time to launch transatlantic, but not so much for local :P
[20:27] <jcoxon> natrium42, nah its closer then that
[20:27] <natrium42> i can go for 6m/s ascent rate, what do you think?
[20:27] <Mike|Ghost> Your launching a balloon transatlantic? :O
[20:27] <jcoxon> Mike|Ghost, its being worked on
[20:27] <jcoxon> not this launch but perhaps in a few weeks
[20:27] <Mike|Ghost> jcoxon: If that works, Enjoy being famous.
[20:27] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:27] <Mike|Ghost> Daily Mail will be all over you
[20:28] <jcoxon> well we shall see if it works, might take a few attempts
[20:28] <Ferris-Wheel> how are you making sure it gets back into your hands? O.o
[20:28] <jcoxon> knowing where it is and collecting it from there
[20:28] <jcoxon> thats all you can do
[20:29] <Ferris-Wheel> heh
[20:30] <Mike|Ghost> Hmm, Any idea on what to search for on ebay to get an RC parafoil? I want to try an idea but parafoil returns 0 results
[20:31] <jcoxon> natrium42, 72hrs might be better, burst above kitchner and landing near brantford
[20:31] <natrium42> yeah
[20:31] <natrium42> can do that on friday too, with higher ascent rate
[20:32] <jcoxon> Mike|Ghost, there aren't that many on the market as such, so they are quite rare on ebay
[20:32] <Mike|Ghost> jcoxon: Well that spoils my plan
[20:32] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:32] <jcoxon> its not the end of the world
[20:32] <jcoxon> they definitely come up
[20:32] <shellevil> rollago?
[20:32] <shellevil> orr however you spell it
[20:33] <Mike|Ghost> I was thinking, Parafoil + Helium balloons to quite high and then the balloons to burst and the parafoil to glide back to earth
[20:33] <shellevil> do you actually want a proper parafoil?
[20:33] <Mike|Ghost> I only want an RC one
[20:33] <shellevil> laurenceb is doing a launch soon
[20:33] <jcoxon> Mike|Ghost, yeah its a great idea
[20:33] <shellevil> that idea - with lots of complexity added
[20:33] <jcoxon> yeah laurenceb is going to sort of try that on sat
[20:33] <Mike|Ghost> Oh really?
[20:33] <Mike|Ghost> Foiled.
[20:33] <jcoxon> but with a fixed wing parafoil, - a rogallo
[20:33] <shellevil> gps+lots of software + radio + r/c
[20:33] <Mike|Ghost> Ah
[20:34] <shellevil> autoland on a landing spot
[20:34] <Mike|Ghost> How much for a cheap GPS setup to relay the infomation back to earth?
[20:34] <shellevil> it's not that simple
[20:34] <shellevil> you need to pretty much build your own system to talk to the GPS and the radio
[20:34] <shellevil> at this point
[20:35] <shellevil> I don't happen to know exactly - but think laurencb's total cost will probably be around 150 quid
[20:35] <Mike|Ghost> I realise that, I did a launch before similar to somthing on here.
[20:35] <Mike|Ghost> 150 isnt bad
[20:35] <natrium42> jcoxon, 6 m/s ascent rate seems to work every day
[20:35] <shellevil> Mike|Ghost: gps, microcontroller board, gyro, servo, batteries, cutdown, structure, ...
[20:36] <Mike|Ghost> shellevil: I should probably learn to solder.
[20:37] <natrium42> jcoxon, dunno if i like friday/saturday, since it's going in direction of lake
[20:37] <natrium42> even though it lands near home if everything works out
[20:43] <Mike|Ghost> Hmm, I may try the original idea I was going to use which was helped thought up in here a year ago
[20:44] <Mike|Ghost> A cluster of balloons lifting a payload
[20:44] <Mike|Ghost> But the string to connect the balloons is secured by ice, so when it melts, It will fall back to earth
[20:45] <Mike|Ghost> That idea would fail to work at this time of year though
[20:53] <shellevil> they'd burst anyway
[20:53] <shellevil> and you get colder than ice ambient when at >5Km or so
[20:53] <Mike|Ghost> Hmm
[20:54] <Mike|Ghost> I was hoping it would drop before there, so I could track it visually
[20:54] <Mike|Ghost> Otherwise, I shall have to invent a motor with a knife on o.o
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[20:56] <natrium42> jcoxon, btw syx66 speeded up the tracker a bit --> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[20:56] <natrium42> bah
[20:56] <natrium42> good timing
[20:56] <natrium42> :P
[20:56] <Mike|Ghost> Very much so :D
[20:56] <Mike|Ghost> natrium42, Are you still doing the DS modding?
[20:57] <natrium42> yes
[20:57] <Mike|Ghost> Cool, Anything new you've done? Last time I checked you had just done a GPS with somthing. Then my DS got stolen
[20:59] <natrium42> dserial edge has been the recent device
[20:59] <natrium42> but i am working on another one which is secret atm
[20:59] <Mike|Ghost> Ahk
[20:59] <Mike|Ghost> What do you use serial for DS?
[20:59] <Mike|Ghost> Linux?
[21:00] <natrium42> just controlling random hardware
[21:00] <Mike|Ghost> Ah, Cool.
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[21:26] <Hiena> Waaaa, found the telemetry problem. It's not a warmup bug, it's more funny.
[21:29] <Hiena> The radiomodem has a time delay, which is a K byte long. It means, if it not receive the next byte, it will start to transmit the packet, but it will not receive the next byte from the serial line until the transmission is finished.
[21:33] <Hiena> Somehow, my delay between the bytes almost the same as the K delay time. That means i have to come up some clever way to fix this problem.
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[21:53] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[21:54] <natrium42> wb
[21:56] <natrium42> <natrium42> jcoxon, btw syx66 speeded up the tracker a bit --> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[21:56] <natrium42> points now cluster
[21:57] <natrium42> try clicking marker when zoomed out
[22:00] <jcoxon> nice
[22:01] <jcoxon> that is really good
[22:06] <Ferris-Wheel> is it true balloons that go high enough dont pop?
[22:06] <edmoore> no
[22:06] <Ferris-Wheel> i forget what i heard about that... hmph.
[22:07] <edmoore> the better answer is that it depends on the type of balloon
[22:07] <Ferris-Wheel> ah :P
[22:07] <edmoore> but for a latex balloon on planet earth, it will pop
[22:12] Laurenceb (n=laurence@dyres221-35.surrey.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:12] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:12] <Laurenceb> lots of people online :P
[22:16] <edmoore> hi
[22:16] <Laurenceb> hi there
[22:16] <edmoore> don't know
[22:16] <Laurenceb> launch still on?
[22:16] <edmoore> to pre-empt
[22:16] <Laurenceb> ah :P
[22:16] <Laurenceb> :-/
[22:17] <Laurenceb> well I'm ready I think... just need to find a 1mx50cm box
[22:19] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison_
[22:23] <Laurenceb> edmoore: if you have enough spare balloons I'd be happy to pay for the launch I guess
[22:23] <Laurenceb> tho its be silly if henry is going to be ready very shortly
[22:23] <edmoore> nah we can piggy probs. it's being discussed right now
[22:23] <edmoore> i am in west sussex
[22:23] <Laurenceb> right cool
[22:23] <Laurenceb> thanks
[22:23] <edmoore> they are in cam
[22:27] <Laurenceb> wind about 5mph or lower
[22:27] <Laurenceb> looks ok
[22:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.xcweather.co.uk/GB/forecast
[22:38] <G8KHW> jcoxon: did you get a copy of the email I sent mc?
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[22:45] <jcoxon> about the rockmite?
[22:47] <Laurenceb> natrium42: ping
[22:52] <G8KHW> jcoxon: yes
[22:52] <G8KHW> is the the right address?
[22:53] <G8KHW> its the last one I have for him
[22:53] <jcoxon> yup its right
[22:53] <jcoxon> he said this morning that he packaged them up
[22:53] <jcoxon> i assume he sent them today
[22:53] <G8KHW> ah ok - excellent
[23:00] <edmoore> Laurenceb: you have a piggyback
[23:00] <edmoore> friday note
[23:01] <Laurenceb> cool
[23:01] <Laurenceb> friday?
[23:01] <edmoore> yes
[23:01] <Laurenceb> what time?
[23:01] <edmoore> brought forward
[23:01] <edmoore> plan for 10 but in the knowedge it might slip
[23:03] <Laurenceb> a bit windy
[23:13] fnoble_lab (i=836f0142@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-67a0a4d46aaa4ce9) joined #highaltitude.
[23:13] <fnoble_lab> yo yo
[23:13] <fnoble_lab> edmoore: hi
[23:14] <Ferris-Wheel> :D
[23:16] <edmoore> fnoble_lab: pm
[23:18] <Laurenceb> hello Ferris-wheel
[23:18] <Laurenceb> hello fergus
[23:18] <Ferris-Wheel> fergus? : (
[23:19] <Laurenceb> not you :P
[23:25] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb: hi laurence
[23:25] <fnoble_lab> all set for friday?
[23:25] <Laurenceb> guess so
[23:25] <shellevil> Laurenceb: edmoore - I'm likely to be asleep while you are launching - I'll attempt to watch astrally, but I have little hope for that :) So good luck on launch!
[23:25] <Laurenceb> its a bit windy :-/
[23:26] <Laurenceb> thanks
[23:26] <Laurenceb> I'm just lookng at forecasts...
[23:26] <shellevil> well - perhaps more accurately.
[23:26] <shellevil> good luck on landing
[23:26] <shellevil> as that tends to be the more smashy bit.
[23:27] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb: what altitude are you letting go?
[23:27] <Laurenceb> what sort of ascent velocity will we be going for?
[23:27] <Laurenceb> 10Km
[23:27] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb: our ascent rate will be massive
[23:27] <Ferris-Wheel> heh
[23:27] <Laurenceb> I may change it to optimise the chance of success
[23:27] <Laurenceb> Ferris-Wheel: you new round here?
[23:28] <fnoble_lab> as we will have two balloons each of which will give neutral buoyancy on its own
[23:28] <Ferris-Wheel> not new to freenode, but new to the channel : )
[23:28] <Laurenceb> greetings
[23:28] <Ferris-Wheel> thanks
[23:28] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb: will try and calculate the rate
[23:28] <Laurenceb> is that to increase the stability?
[23:29] <fnoble_lab> any chance you could give us the exact(ish) payload weight some time soon?
[23:29] <Laurenceb> the good news is the wind is kind of in the direction of ears
[23:29] <Laurenceb> I dont have any good scales
[23:29] <Laurenceb> ~500grams
[23:29] <jcoxon> fnoble_lab, you going for a floater then by cuting away one balloon?
[23:29] <fnoble_lab> yeah
[23:29] <fnoble_lab> we need a float section to test the star tracker
[23:29] <jcoxon> amazing
[23:30] <jcoxon> not going for the vent approach, bill brown style
[23:30] <Laurenceb> its pretty close to 500
[23:30] <fnoble_lab> no, i think we felt going with a double balloon thingy would be less brand new untested hardware
[23:31] <Laurenceb> this will be cool
[23:31] <jcoxon> fair enough
[23:31] <fnoble_lab> but obviously still a high risk flight
[23:31] <Laurenceb> sure you can cut away without a tangle
[23:31] <jcoxon> friday now? won't be able to make it unfortunately
[23:31] <Laurenceb> guess if the cutter is just below the balloon
[23:32] <fnoble_lab> jcoxon: aiming for friday to be ready, will go for sat if the winds are better then
[23:32] <Laurenceb> are you having one balloon above the other?
[23:32] <fnoble_lab> hard to say atm
[23:32] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb: balloons at same level but with very long lines
[23:32] <Laurenceb> ah ok - winds are better on saturday for te rogallo
[23:32] <Laurenceb> ok.. and the cutter is just below the neck?
[23:33] <Laurenceb> as those lines are going to tangle
[23:33] <fnoble_lab> cutdowns just below each balloon and then a backup near the payload
[23:33] <Laurenceb> yeah, sounds sensible
[23:33] <fnoble_lab> we're going to put on a backup to cut you down too if thats ok
[23:33] <Laurenceb> long line so pendulum oscillations are slow?
[23:33] <fnoble_lab> yeah
[23:33] <Laurenceb> cool
[23:34] <Laurenceb> any camera/video onboard?
[23:34] <fnoble_lab> we can chat about what logic you want us to use
[23:34] <Laurenceb> or will you log raw images?
[23:34] <fnoble_lab> no, just the startracker camera
[23:34] <fnoble_lab> which will be logging raw of png
[23:34] <fnoble_lab> *or
[23:34] <Laurenceb> cool, will be fun to see
[23:34] <fnoble_lab> yeah, hope so
[23:35] <edmoore> Laurenceb: what's your desired cutdown alt?
[23:35] <Laurenceb> whatevers best now
[23:35] <Laurenceb> as the wind is kind of towards ears
[23:35] <Laurenceb> so I'll aim for the optimal altitude to reach the target
[23:35] <Laurenceb> or 10Km, whatever lowest
[23:35] <fnoble_lab> ok, sweet
[23:36] <shellevil> err - don't you want to exceed that and circle in?
[23:36] <shellevil> not just pancake 5000m short?
[23:36] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:36] <Laurenceb> sure, its a matter of choosing the right altitude
[23:36] <Laurenceb> go really high and ears will be upwind
[23:36] <Laurenceb> too low and you'll land short
[23:37] <shellevil> ah
[23:37] <shellevil> I assume you're supposed to be able to circle gracefully about a spot?
[23:37] <Ferris-Wheel> i want to lift a rock
[23:37] <Laurenceb> go above 10Km and it'll probably be uncontrollable
[23:37] <shellevil> a target spot
[23:37] <Laurenceb> as the dynamics will change
[23:37] <Ferris-Wheel> just to have lifted a rock... If it hits someone, do you get in trouble?
[23:37] <shellevil> lau: why do you think so?
[23:37] <fnoble_lab> Ferris-Wheel: probably
[23:38] <Laurenceb> Ferris-Wheel: we come round your house and kill you
[23:38] <Ferris-Wheel> xD
[23:38] <Ferris-Wheel> i want to do it now...
[23:38] <shellevil> Laurenceb: surely the airspeed just winds up till IAS is 15mph or whatever?
[23:38] <Laurenceb> for bringing ballooning into disrepute
[23:38] <fnoble_lab> Ferris-Wheel: take a camera, probably lighter
[23:38] <shellevil> Laurenceb: have we enough helium for another balloon killing this quarter?
[23:38] <Ferris-Wheel> fnoble_lab, but those cost money
[23:38] <shellevil> the last one dropped mid-pacific I think.
[23:39] <Laurenceb> shellevil: yeah I'll go for another lanch if this works
[23:39] <shellevil> Ferris-Wheel: cheap camera from ebay
[23:39] <Ferris-Wheel> owch
[23:39] <fnoble_lab> if you dont want to do the radio stuff just yet i guess you could write your name on it and hope someone finds it
[23:39] <Ferris-Wheel> shellevil but... rocks are more fun : (
[23:39] <edmoore> can both telem systems announce when they pyro?
[23:39] <Laurenceb> with a few changes as appropriate
[23:39] <Ferris-Wheel> more dense, less air resistant
[23:39] <fnoble_lab> edmoore: yes, will get thm to do that
[23:39] <Ferris-Wheel> let the balloons pop, the rock gets more speed than the camera
[23:39] <Ferris-Wheel> heh
[23:40] <Laurenceb> fnoble_lab: any idea on ascent rate?
[23:40] <shellevil> Ferris-Wheel: depleted uranium dart.
[23:40] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb: no idea as of yet
[23:40] <Ferris-Wheel> D:
[23:41] <fnoble_lab> imagine it must be >>5m/s
[23:41] <shellevil> Hmm. Does a dart dropped from 30Km go supersonic?
[23:41] <natrium42> Laurenceb, you pinged me?
[23:41] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:41] <Ferris-Wheel> haha
[23:41] <Laurenceb> did you get the email about altitude control
[23:41] <Ferris-Wheel> woahh that's mean xD
[23:42] <natrium42> yes
[23:42] <Laurenceb> I was thinking, drag coefficient will be fairly similar to a sphere in descent
[23:42] <Laurenceb> maybe slightly lower
[23:43] <Laurenceb> which is good, as drag/velocity will then be roughly constant
[23:43] <Laurenceb> however, you have to take into account how much ballast has been dropped
[23:43] <Laurenceb> as that reflects how much helium there is in the envelope
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[23:44] <Laurenceb> hopefully if you do that you can estimate how much ballast to drop to within +-25% or so
[23:44] <Ferris-Wheel> so... if you take two helium balloons where one can lift it, and fill the second with a quarter the helium that was in the other, when one popped, i'd guess the other would keep accelerating
[23:44] <Laurenceb> ballast level -> total mass -> total helium -> envelope diameter -> drag/velocity
[23:44] <Ferris-Wheel> i wonder how high you could get it
[23:45] <Laurenceb> then drop 0.7 times the required ballast drop estimated
[23:45] <Laurenceb> and loop
[23:45] <Ferris-Wheel> couldnt you sorta make a satellite that'd last a few days?
[23:45] <natrium42> Laurenceb, hmm, do you think it would be a good idea to write a simple simulator?
[23:46] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:46] <natrium42> Ferris-Wheel, perhaps superpressure balloon would be a better idea
[23:46] <Ferris-Wheel> superpressure balloon?
[23:46] <Ferris-Wheel> : )
[23:46] <shellevil> Ferris-Wheel: a balloon capable of containing the pressure of the helium
[23:46] <Laurenceb> a while back I was saying we should write a full sim, using GFS data and modelling condesation on the envelope
[23:47] <Laurenceb> but its a bit late now if we want to launch soon
[23:47] <shellevil> Ferris-Wheel: so as to resist the tendancy to burst
[23:47] <shellevil> Ferris-Wheel: an elastic balloon (without pressure venting)
[23:47] <Laurenceb> a simple 1D model of altitude would be handy just to get a rough idea
[23:48] <Laurenceb> put in max ballast drop rate, estamted errors ect
[23:52] <Laurenceb> not sure about drag coefficient... the balloon envelope is a teardrop?
[23:53] <Ferris-Wheel> shellevil, would the multiple balloons at different amounts of helium work too?
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[23:55] <shellevil> Ferris-Wheel: will burst as it goes up - it's unstable in altitude
[23:55] <shellevil> Ferris-Wheel: an inelastic balloon will - if strong enough - find its own altitude where it's stable and the weight of the structure = weight of displaced air
[23:55] <shellevil> anyone happen to know the regulations with regards to tethered balloons? /me is contemplating an antenna.
[23:55] Action: shellevil sighs at his connection.
[23:55] <Laurenceb> its not really allowed
[23:56] <Laurenceb> IIRC
[23:56] <Laurenceb> but you see tethered advertising blimps
[23:57] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure how it works... havent read all the small print, I just heard tethered balloons were hard to do in the Uk
[23:57] <shellevil> k
[23:58] <Ferris-Wheel> what do you think of dropping bouncy balls from balloons?
[23:58] <Ferris-Wheel> i'm excited about this idea, i just dont know what to drop xD
[23:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090317-sts119-bat-shuttle.html
[23:58] <Laurenceb> ^ lol
[23:58] <shellevil> relevant earlier comment is relevant.
[23:59] <shellevil> (was talking about this a couple of days ago WRT parasitic payloads)
[23:59] <Laurenceb> haha
[23:59] <Laurenceb> think it would get spotted
[00:00] --- Wed Mar 18 2009