highaltitude.log.20090306

[00:06] <natrium42> shellevil, interesting news regarding venus chips
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> wrt flash?
[00:07] <natrium42> http://pastebin.com/d358b25e5
[00:08] <Laurenceb> woops
[00:08] <Laurenceb> oh well you get some free
[00:09] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[00:09] Action: SpeedEvil wonders what the oops was.
[00:09] <natrium42> :D
[00:09] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, are you ok with those?
[00:09] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: fine
[00:10] <natrium42> kk
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> If you could ask more about hte logger mode in the datasheet, that'd be interesting
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> Seems to be slightly ambiguous - is the latter batch to be upcoming the same as the older ROM.
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> (though either would work for me, I'd like at least a couple of the later ROM ones if that's the case)
[00:18] <Laurenceb> yeah I dont follow
[00:18] <Laurenceb> they are sending 25 with the older rom?
[00:19] <natrium42> yes
[00:19] <natrium42> for free
[00:19] <Laurenceb> cool
[00:19] <natrium42> it's not bad considering that each chip costs me $8.50
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> Can you reveal what you're doing with a couple of hundred GPS?
[00:23] <Laurenceb> fish n chips
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> eely?
[00:24] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/temp/gpsbee-a.jpg
[00:24] <natrium42> just don't take this info outside this channel please
[00:24] <natrium42> it's for nintendo ds
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> neat
[00:24] <smea> really ?
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> accel too?
[00:24] <natrium42> smea, yes, but keep it secret please
[00:24] <smea> okay :)
[00:24] <smea> really nice
[00:25] <natrium42> :)
[00:25] Action: Laurenceb prints on billboard
[00:25] <natrium42> XD
[00:25] Action: SpeedEvil is uninterested in DS, other than a source of nice LCDs
[00:25] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, there are ndsmotion cards which contain 3d accel and 1d gyro
[00:25] <natrium42> i sell them
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> one card per, I assume?
[00:25] <natrium42> http://www.electrobee.com/ds-motion-c-7.html
[00:26] Action: Laurenceb is only interested in nds girl
[00:26] <natrium42> haha
[00:26] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, this one actually has very easy to use SPI interface --> http://www.electrobee.com/motion-card-p-24.html
[00:26] <Laurenceb> oh dear he knows what I'm talking about
[00:27] Action: SpeedEvil is vaguely aware of h-games.
[01:10] <Laurenceb> http://elm-chan.org/works/vlp/gikosky.jpeg
[01:32] <natrium42> wowaweewa
[01:34] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> I guess that's attached to some sort of guider
[01:35] <natrium42> very nice, similar to my clock radio projector
[01:36] <Laurenceb> I was thinking of electrostatic laser scanning
[01:36] <Laurenceb> thats using custom servos
[01:36] <natrium42> Laurenceb, i found an idea for your next glider
[01:36] <natrium42> http://englishrussia.com/?p=2331#more-2331
[01:38] <Laurenceb> neat
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> And for the next baloon.
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> http://englishrussia.com/?p=221
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[01:39] <natrium42> haha
[01:39] <natrium42> the military will shoot down that kind of balloon for sure ;P
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[01:48] <Laurenceb> I was thinking maybe mylar flim strips
[01:48] <Laurenceb> then use plates behind them to bend them back and deflect the laser
[01:49] <Laurenceb> unfortunately the flexing will dfocus the beam
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I see no reason that couldn't be attached to anohter scope mount, and the appropriate 'goto' commands entered
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> a 5 min exposure, and you're done
[01:49] <Laurenceb> erm...
[01:49] <Laurenceb> thats not the point
[01:49] <Laurenceb> its to look cool
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> then you print out a hologram lens
[01:49] <Laurenceb> :P
[01:49] <Laurenceb> noo
[01:50] <Laurenceb> it needs to projects video
[01:51] <SpeedEvil> I've seen stuff done with DLP to do holograms
[01:51] <SpeedEvil> realtime
[01:51] <Laurenceb> neat
[01:51] <Laurenceb> I was just thinking for beam aiming projector like that japanese guy built
[01:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/article_display.html?id=204121
[01:52] <SpeedEvil> A commercially available digital micromirror device is at the heart of a holographic projector that can project video-rate two-color images;
[01:53] <Laurenceb> interesting
[01:54] <Laurenceb> ok
[01:55] <SpeedEvil> There are teeny displays targeted at HMDs too that are moderately cheap and high res
[01:57] <Laurenceb> yeah.... I want to project on clouds tho
[01:57] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning you shoot the laser through the (cooled) microdisplay that acts like a holographic lens
[01:58] <Laurenceb> hmmm
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[01:59] <Laurenceb> I know... maybe polycarbonate mirror sheet
[01:59] <Laurenceb> about 4mm square
[01:59] <Laurenceb> then mounted on the end of solme mylar film or similar about 1cm long
[01:59] <Laurenceb> with a pcb behine
[01:59] <Laurenceb> then use HV pad to deflect it
[02:01] <Laurenceb> whats the voltage limit with op amps?
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[02:04] <SpeedEvil> How mucha re you willing to pay
[02:04] <SpeedEvil> IIRC 600V
[02:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.mskennedy.com/client_images/catalog19680/pages/files/130rc.pdf
[02:05] <Laurenceb> hmm a few hundered volts would be enough
[02:05] <Laurenceb> I think... need to work it out
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[02:08] <Laurenceb> hmm looks like you need about 1KV for it to be practical
[02:09] <Laurenceb> unless you ditch the polycarbonate and go for mylar film
[02:09] <hallam> why does it have to be an op amp rather than some other kind of amplifier?
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> practically. Take N and P channel MOSFETs, make a class B output stage.
[02:10] <Laurenceb> easier thats all
[02:10] <Laurenceb> yeah guess
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> use 1Kv or so FETs
[02:10] <Laurenceb> yeah and use feedback
[02:10] <hallam> check out solid state tesla coils, they regularly operate on tens of kV
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> Now, take 1 n-channel FET, and a resistor to 1KV as a load
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> connect the class B to this
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[02:10] <SpeedEvil> then connect to feedback network and opamp
[02:10] <Laurenceb> hmmm yeah pretty practical to make
[02:10] <Laurenceb> then backlight drivers for the HV
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wild-Planet-Remote-Control-RC-Spy-Gear-Video-Car_W0QQitemZ260368344967QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item260368344967&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
[02:11] <Laurenceb> or a backlight driver
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> http://jakehildebrandt.com/2007/09/30/25-head-mounted-display/
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[02:11] <SpeedEvil> cheapHMD is cheap
[02:11] <Laurenceb> lol
[02:12] <Laurenceb> its going to need active damping
[02:12] <Laurenceb> to be fast enough...
[02:12] <Laurenceb> if you could inject some AC signal onto the HV pad then measure the capacitance
[02:12] <Laurenceb> that would work
[02:14] <Laurenceb> is the alu film on aluminised mylar exposed to the air? or is there some coating ontop?
[02:14] <hallam> has anyone made a really good augmented reality setup yet?
[02:14] Action: Laurenceb tried one is ~1995
[02:14] <hallam> i.e. you have some semitransparent heads-up display, and sufficiently good localisation + head tracking to overlay objects in the real world
[02:14] Action: SpeedEvil augments his reality.
[02:15] Action: SpeedEvil puts the last of the bacon away.
[02:15] <hallam> you have more self-control than me
[02:15] Action: Laurenceb finds a girlfriend http://www.mskennedy.com/client_images/catalog19680/pages/files/130rc.pdf
[02:15] <Laurenceb> http://englishrussia.com/images/ukrainian_amazons/1.jpg
[02:16] <Laurenceb> natrium42: that site is mental
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[02:18] <Laurenceb> ok... anyway... aluminised mylar film with a small bit of polycarbonate mirror ontop
[02:18] <Laurenceb> then HV plate behind
[02:18] <Laurenceb> so it can be flexed through a few degrees, enough to project the beam
[02:18] <Laurenceb> two of those and your sorted
[02:20] <SpeedEvil> for ~2-5ms response, you can gut hard drives
[02:20] <Laurenceb> hehe
[02:20] <Laurenceb> feedback is sstill a pain
[02:21] <Laurenceb> may as well go for the electrostatic rpute
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[03:07] <Laurenceb> hallam: https://outlook2003.surrey.ac.uk/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://nepp.nasa.gov/mapld_2008/presentations/i/07%2520-%2520Sirotzky_Steve_mapld08_pres_1.pdf
[03:07] <Laurenceb> ooh crap
[03:07] <Laurenceb> the bit after ?URL= :D
[03:26] <hallam> Laurenceb: doesn't load, what are those % character supposed to be?
[03:29] <hallam> oh it's Navigator
[03:29] <hallam> haven't seen this particular presentation before
[03:29] <hallam> but it's a cool project, albeit heavy and stuff
[03:30] <shellevil> %s are escapes
[03:30] <shellevil> %20 = hex 20 = space
[03:30] <hallam> I know that
[03:30] <hallam> this was double-escaped
[03:30] <shellevil> oh - k
[03:30] <hallam> %2520, %25 = '%' etc
[03:31] Action: shellevil should be asleep
[03:31] <hallam> me too
[03:31] <hallam> g'night all
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[03:31] <shellevil> wave
[03:35] Action: natrium42 collapses shellevil's wave
[03:41] <Laurenceb> lol
[03:41] <Laurenceb> hmm how can I delete cookies for one specific page in firefox on xp
[03:41] <Laurenceb> in ubuntu you can just right click and theres an option
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[08:10] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
[08:10] <jcoxon> morning natrium42
[08:10] <jcoxon> cool flight computer
[08:11] <natrium42> :)
[08:11] <jcoxon> can we stick a pic of it on the wiki?
[08:11] <natrium42> sure
[08:12] <jcoxon> yay
[08:12] <jcoxon> ooo also can you link to the wiki from your site
[08:12] <natrium42> my new programmer is close --> http://www.fedex.com/Tracking?tracknumbers=797391758856
[08:12] <natrium42> which site?
[08:12] <natrium42> blog?
[08:12] <jcoxon> probably the halo ones
[08:12] <natrium42> ah, okay
[08:12] <jcoxon> just i'm concious to get links
[08:15] Action: natrium42 is getting 25 free venus gps chips with old rom
[08:15] <natrium42> since they are having problems with their new batch that they promises to send to me a week ago
[08:16] <natrium42> *promised
[08:16] <natrium42> it's going to take another few weeks
[08:16] <jcoxon> okay
[08:17] <jcoxon> you've got 2 already
[08:17] <natrium42> yeah, one of them was either faulty or i broke it when soldering
[08:17] <jcoxon> the other?
[08:18] <natrium42> works http://natrium42.com/temp/gpsbee-a.jpg
[08:18] <natrium42> but my antenna is not working
[08:18] <natrium42> not sure, maybe i need matching circuit
[08:18] <natrium42> those chip antennas are hard to get right
[08:19] <jcoxon> antenna circuits are mean
[08:19] <natrium42> it should not affect the modules for atlantic halo, though, which use sarantel antennas
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[08:19] <jcoxon> cool
[08:19] <natrium42> but i need more chips
[08:20] <natrium42> 25 are on the way, should get on monday
[08:20] <jcoxon> oh great
[08:20] <jcoxon> hopefully the valves should arrive today
[08:20] <jcoxon> ooo have you seen this:
[08:20] <jcoxon> http://www.viddler.com/explore/spiritofknox/videos/5/
[08:21] <natrium42> yep
[08:21] <natrium42> they don't seem to be handling the balloon too carefully :S
[08:21] <natrium42> it also jerks up when they release it
[08:21] <natrium42> kinda has me worried :P
[08:22] <jcoxon> its all about how you handle the balloon
[08:22] <jcoxon> did you see the bit about their ballast tank?
[08:22] <natrium42> yep
[08:23] <jcoxon> nice and simple
[08:23] <natrium42> it's pressurized, any idea why they chose this method?
[08:23] <natrium42> as opposed to having a hole at the top?
[08:23] <jcoxon> i'm not sure
[08:23] <jcoxon> perhaps as the ethanol might evaporate
[08:24] <natrium42> that's what the padding is for too?
[08:25] <jcoxon> padding must be for insulation
[08:26] <natrium42> not sure why insulation is needed for ethanol
[08:26] <jcoxon> no i'm not either
[08:27] <jcoxon> do you think we should have a one way valve at teh top so that our tank isn't pressurised
[08:27] <natrium42> sounds like a good idea
[08:27] <natrium42> do you think it's worth it to test the tank on latex balloon?
[08:31] <jcoxon> i've been thinking about that
[08:31] <jcoxon> i can test it in a vacuum chamber
[08:31] <jcoxon> its probably a good idea
[08:32] <jcoxon> i don't think we should cut the tank away
[08:32] <jcoxon> it really doesn't weigh that much empty
[08:32] <jcoxon> and its one more thing to go wrong
[08:32] <jcoxon> right i have to go to lectures
[08:32] <natrium42> k
[08:33] <natrium42> i am going to sleep
[08:33] <jcoxon> night
[08:33] <natrium42> g'nite
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[13:01] <SpeedEvil> Eww. /me is applying for a passport, and getting some pictures done. http://www.photobox.co.uk/
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> observe the tagline under the slideshow
[13:02] Action: SpeedEvil has been on the internets too long
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[13:46] <Laurenceb> hello
[13:46] Action: Laurenceb has samples from AD :P
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[14:03] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[14:03] <fergusnoble> hi james
[14:03] <fergusnoble> hows it going
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[14:05] <jcoxon> good thanks
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[14:07] <jcoxon> am on a dodgey internet connection in a lecture
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[14:14] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: the capacitance a/d?
[14:14] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: the capacitance a/d?
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> I mean
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[14:36] <jcoxon> back
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[15:00] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[15:00] <Laurenceb> hello
[15:00] <Laurenceb> I have the Ad7746 ICs
[15:00] <jcoxon> great
[15:02] <jcoxon> natrium has made lots of progress with the flight computer
[15:03] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:03] <Laurenceb> I may have a go at resoldering
[15:04] <jcoxon> okay
[15:04] <jcoxon> what sort of tank does the sensor need to be attached to?
[15:04] <jcoxon> will it attach to anything?
[15:04] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:04] <Laurenceb> it fits inside
[15:05] <jcoxon> just epoxy it to the inside?
[15:05] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> should also work OK on the outside
[15:05] <Laurenceb> that would work
[15:05] <Laurenceb> hope
[15:05] <Laurenceb> it has to be immersed
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> doesn't - it has to vary in capacitance
[15:06] <Laurenceb> its inside a brass pipe
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> two parallel strips along the container length will vary quyite a bit in capacitance, due to dielectric constant and any conductivity of teh fluid inside
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> oh - in that case, prolly not
[15:06] <jcoxon> oh right, i'm just thinking of suitable ballast tank
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> 3l coke bottle
[15:07] <Laurenceb> yeah I went for that design for RFI protection
[15:07] <Laurenceb> or white lightening
[15:08] <jcoxon> how long is the sensor?
[15:09] <Laurenceb> ~30cm
[15:09] <jcoxon> okay and its in a brass pipe so its straight
[15:09] <Laurenceb> yeah
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[15:11] <hallam> fergusnoble: how's the plague?
[15:11] <fergusnoble> a bit better
[15:11] <fergusnoble> but ed's sick now
[15:11] <fergusnoble> :(
[15:11] <hallam> shit
[15:11] <hallam> proper sick?
[15:11] <fergusnoble> yeah
[15:11] <fergusnoble> i think so
[15:11] <jcoxon> whats wrong?
[15:12] <hallam> norovirus
[15:12] <jcoxon> urgh
[15:12] <jcoxon> cambridge always gets norovirus outbreaks
[15:12] <hallam> ed was exposed at the same time that Iain was, wasn't he?
[15:12] <jcoxon> have you guys seen these guys: http://kuxbs.org/
[15:13] <hallam> ooh, I hadn't
[15:13] <jcoxon> cause they are test launching a tandem balloon launch next weekend as a platform ofor a potential launch
[15:13] <edmoore> yo
[15:14] <edmoore> i am a bit wobbly, just chilling in my room
[15:14] <edmoore> annoyingly, the computer screen is not helping headcahe
[15:14] Action: jcoxon says lots of fluids
[15:14] <edmoore> ta, am doing so
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[15:15] Action: hallam needs something more substantial than fluids -- brb
[15:15] <Laurenceb> plague :(
[15:15] <Laurenceb> hope I didnt catch it
[15:15] <Laurenceb> that sucks :(
[15:15] <Laurenceb> fergusnoble: when did you start showing symptoms?
[15:16] <hallam> fergusnoble: let's get one of these ;) http://cgi.ebay.com/862D-IRDA-Infrared-BGA-SMD-Soldering-Rework-Station_W0QQitemZ320338806024QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Soldering?hash=item320338806024&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
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[15:18] <Laurenceb> nice, quite cheap
[15:19] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: yesterday, dont worry
[15:19] <fergusnoble> brb
[15:19] <fergusnoble> edmoore: are you sure its not the noro?
[15:20] <edmoore> i don't know
[15:20] <edmoore> have not seen the doctor
[15:20] <fergusnoble> ok, im going to see the nurse
[15:20] <fergusnoble> what were your symptoms?
[15:21] <edmoore> nausea, bit of a headache, generally feeling a bit under the weather - have had a cold for a few days now
[15:21] <jcoxon> tis norovirus
[15:23] <fergusnoble> ok, brb
[15:30] <edmoore> jcoxon: i dunno, I'm hardly feeling dire
[15:30] <edmoore> just... sick
[15:30] <edmoore> i've felt worse after a night out
[15:31] <jcoxon> general fatigue and feeling crap suggests a virus
[15:32] <jcoxon> and a bit of nausea and this time of year suggests norovirus
[15:32] <jcoxon> though it doesn't make any difference really they are all the same
[15:32] Action: SpeedEvil gives jcoxon H5N1.
[15:32] <jcoxon> thanks
[15:33] <jcoxon> :-D
[15:34] <edmoore> jcoxon: how goes xatlantic?
[15:34] <jcoxon> yeah its come along
[15:35] <jcoxon> got the balloons, natrium has soldered up the flight computer, laurence is repairing teh ballast sensor and i've ordered some solenoid valves
[15:35] <jcoxon> oh and steve has finished the code for the radio, just needs the hardware bit
[15:35] <Laurenceb> and to post it on the wiki :P
[15:35] <Laurenceb> I wasnt it
[15:36] <Laurenceb> MFSK on the HF ?
[15:36] <jcoxon> yup
[15:36] <jcoxon> i think the plan was MFSK and RTTY
[15:38] <jcoxon> so all in all its come along rather well
[15:38] <jcoxon> pulling it all together will be the hard bit
[15:39] <Laurenceb> is there a custom pcb fot the radio?
[15:39] <jcoxon> Laurenceb: no, its a modified kit with a PIC running the show
[15:40] <Laurenceb> interesting
[15:40] <Laurenceb> what kit?
[15:42] <jcoxon> umm i can't remember
[15:42] <jcoxon> might have been the rock-mite kit
[15:42] <jcoxon> or perhaps that one on ebay
[15:42] <jcoxon> would have to ask steve
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[15:53] <jcoxon> bbl
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[15:53] <fergusnoble> edmoore: apparently its the virus
[15:53] <fergusnoble> but its not as bad as eveyone has been making out
[15:54] <fergusnoble> its just a mild form of it or something
[15:54] <edmoore> that would tally with my experience
[15:54] <edmoore> i don't feel that dire as i was just saying to jc
[15:55] <fergusnoble> me neither anymore
[15:57] <edmoore> i did vom though.
[16:01] <edmoore> i put the slides up on our site (...co.uk/CUWS_Caius.pdf) and have emailed the link to Hugo
[16:01] <fergusnoble> cool
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[16:39] <hallam> anyone good at stats?
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[16:47] <SpeedEvil> hallam: sometimes
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> (not really)
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[16:56] Action: Laurenceb now has adverts for norovirus pills
[16:59] <hallam> SpeedEvil: was wondering how to compute the uncertainty of the gradient in a linear fit to some data
[16:59] <hallam> I think I have the answer, though I don't understand where it comes from
[17:00] <hallam> e.g. you have a bunch of points x,y on a graph, you draw a best fit line using least-squares linear regression, how well do you know the gradient of that line
[17:00] <Laurenceb> gnuplot
[17:00] <Laurenceb> will tell you :P
[17:00] <hallam> so will matlab
[17:00] <hallam> sadly neither runs on the Blackfin
[17:00] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[17:01] <hallam> in this case x = time, y = code phase, gradient = relative velocity
[17:01] <Laurenceb> think its related to the error...
[17:01] <Laurenceb> i.e. error on the fit to the points
[17:01] <hallam> yeah
[17:01] <Laurenceb> but also the geometery
[17:02] <hallam> matlab can be made to spit out an estimate of the covariance matrix
[17:02] <Laurenceb> hmm I think you need an estimate of the error on your points
[17:03] <Laurenceb> to come up with a mathematically correct estimate
[17:03] <hallam> you can get that pretty easily
[17:03] <hallam> you just take the distances from each point to the best fit line, and compute the standard deviation
[17:04] <hallam> anyway result is, software gps gives velocity accurate to 0.06m/s, woohoo
[17:04] <Laurenceb> sure but say you have two points
[17:04] <Laurenceb> then you can always fit
[17:04] <Laurenceb> - you need a measure of the measurement error
[17:04] <hallam> oh sure, it breaks down for small N
[17:04] <Laurenceb> ? your working on the GPS now?
[17:05] <hallam> a little, taking a break from star tracker
[17:05] <Laurenceb> cool, what are you trying to do?
[17:05] <hallam> port more of it to blackfin
[17:05] <hallam> parts should arrive for the rocket board next week
[17:05] <Laurenceb> nice
[17:05] <Laurenceb> that will be cool
[17:06] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah I was reading up on FLL
[17:06] <Laurenceb> more resistant to high G and low signals
[17:06] <hallam> for carrier?
[17:07] <Laurenceb> yeah
[17:07] <Laurenceb> but it means you cant use carrier aiding/smoothing
[17:07] <hallam> oh, why not?
[17:07] <Laurenceb> well you arent locked into the carrier
[17:08] <Laurenceb> your frequency can be out by hundereds of Hz
[17:08] <hallam> I see, the name is a bit misleading then?
[17:08] <Laurenceb> hehe
[17:08] <Laurenceb> well its designed to track the frequency, but it doesnt have to work very well
[17:09] <hallam> how does it work? is there a decoherent discriminator?
[17:10] <edmoore> a good quote:
[17:10] <edmoore> On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
[17:10] <Laurenceb> it monitors phase of the baseband*NCOcarrier over several samples
[17:11] <Laurenceb> then looks to see how the phasor is rotating
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[17:13] <hallam> how does that deal with bit flips?
[17:13] <hallam> hi jatkins
[17:13] <jatkins> hi hallam
[17:15] <Laurenceb> hallam: good question
[17:15] <Laurenceb> hmm
[17:16] <Laurenceb> I_n-1*Q_n - Q_n-1*I_n
[17:16] <Laurenceb> I think that ignores bit flips
[17:16] <hallam> right, that's a decoherent one I think
[17:28] <Laurenceb> what are you using the line fitting for?
[17:29] <hallam> getting velocity from the code phase
[17:30] <Laurenceb> ok... why not use phase?
[17:30] <Laurenceb> carrier
[17:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.complextoreal.com/chapters/pll.pdf
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[17:39] <jcoxon> ooo the valves have arrived
[17:39] <hallam> are they shiny?
[17:39] <jcoxon> they are rather nice
[17:39] <jcoxon> damn small
[17:40] <hallam> Laurenceb: might try carrier phase if I can get my head around how the timing works, remember I'm synced to the PRNs
[17:41] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: cool
[17:41] <Laurenceb> yeah
[17:47] <jcoxon> will get some tubing tomorrow and rig something up
[17:47] <Laurenceb> neat
[17:53] <Laurenceb> right I'm off, cya
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[18:36] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[18:36] <jcoxon> the valves have arrived
[18:36] <natrium42> hi
[18:36] <natrium42> cool
[18:36] <natrium42> looking good?
[18:36] <jcoxon> yeah they are really smal
[18:36] <jcoxon> will take some pictures later and upload them
[18:36] <natrium42> ok, great
[18:37] <natrium42> avr programmer arrived
[18:37] <natrium42> didn't open the package yet
[18:37] <jcoxon> cool
[18:38] <jcoxon> i think these valves will do the job just fine
[18:38] <jcoxon> will rig up a tank tomorrow so we can start testing it
[18:44] <natrium42> k
[19:02] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[19:44] <edmoore> fergusnoble_: sent
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[21:00] <Laurenceb> hello
[21:00] <Laurenceb> lots of people on
[21:00] <natrium42> most of them are jiffe
[21:00] <edmoore> natrium42: what are you using the TRC for on the xatlantic board, ooi?
[21:00] <Laurenceb> so... I resoldered on a new AD7746
[21:01] <Laurenceb> and same problem :(
[21:01] <Laurenceb> I read through the datasheet and cant find anything I'm doing wrong
[21:01] <natrium42> TRC?
[21:01] <edmoore> RTC*
[21:01] <natrium42> oh, i may put the mcu into low power mode clocked by it
[21:01] <edmoore> cool
[21:02] <Laurenceb> I think maybe its my usb/i2c adaptor
[21:02] <Laurenceb> it doesnt work at all at 3.3v
[21:02] <natrium42> Laurenceb, could you try an avr?
[21:02] <Laurenceb> so maybe something is wrong with the timing
[21:03] <Laurenceb> all the features seem to work
[21:03] <Laurenceb> apart fron the ADC
[21:03] <Laurenceb> guess so
[21:03] <Laurenceb> itd be a bit of a pain to setup... but yeah
[21:03] <Laurenceb> I'll try tomorrow
[21:04] <natrium42> ok
[21:04] <Laurenceb> I've got it working so you can use the digital capacitance compensation thingy to estimate to within +-1pf
[21:05] <Laurenceb> but the actualy ADC reports a busy status on the temp and either 0x000000 or 0xffffff on the cap
[21:06] <Laurenceb> identical to prev
[21:06] <Laurenceb> so at least it doesnt appear to be fried
[21:06] <natrium42> are you testing with fixed caps?
[21:07] <Laurenceb> no its all soldered together
[21:07] <Laurenceb> it appears t detect water
[21:08] <Laurenceb> so annoying :-/
[21:08] <natrium42> so it only works at 5V?
[21:09] <Laurenceb> I can get readings out of the cap convertor if I use the wrong channels
[21:09] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:09] <Laurenceb> but they are junk
[21:10] <Laurenceb> e.g. channel 1 input to channel 2 measurement
[21:12] <Laurenceb> he specs look so good ... pity it doesnt work
[21:12] <natrium42> you'll get it working :)
[21:13] <natrium42> things rarely work the first time
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[21:39] Action: Laurenceb contemplates 555 timer and freq counter
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[21:47] <hallam> edmoore: Can you make the "useful stuff.txt" on srcf o-r
[21:48] <edmoore> oh silly thing
[21:49] <edmoore> done
[21:50] <hallam> thanks
[21:50] <hallam> just bodging up an expenses database
[21:50] <hallam> couldn't find a good free one in 2 minutes
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[22:19] <jatkins> hi jcoxon
[22:21] <jcoxon> hey j
[22:21] <jcoxon> jatkins,
[22:21] <jcoxon> hows it going?
[22:21] <jatkins> good thx, you?
[22:22] <jcoxon> yup, good
[22:22] <jcoxon> hows the radio going?
[22:22] <jatkins> i got it powered up with the right batteries
[22:22] <jatkins> but haven't actually got it working yet ;)
[22:22] <jatkins> i bought a resistor pack with 2k2 and 22k yesterday
[22:22] <jatkins> (i didn't have those values before)
[22:22] <jcoxon> okay
[22:23] <jatkins> is it meant to connect to the computer or just display on its lcd?
[22:23] <jcoxon> well when you power up do you hear static?
[22:23] <jatkins> as in display the incoming data
[22:23] <jatkins> yeah
[22:24] <jatkins> (before connecting anything)
[22:24] <jcoxon> when you set up teh ntx2 you'll be able to hear a tone
[22:24] <jatkins> ok
[22:24] <jcoxon> and if you want to decode that you'll need to connect the radio to a laptop audio in with a cable
[22:24] <jatkins> so am I not using an antenna but just plugging the ntx2 straight in via the wire
[22:24] <jatkins> ok
[22:24] <jatkins> what program would i use?
[22:25] <jatkins> ftdigi?
[22:25] <jcoxon> yeah that will do
[22:25] <jatkins> fldigi*
[22:25] <jcoxon> pluging the ntx2 straight in?
[22:25] <jatkins> to the receiver
[22:25] <jatkins> there's no antenna
[22:25] <jatkins> for the ntx2
[22:25] <jcoxon> oh no
[22:26] <jcoxon> so attach the whip antenna to the reciever
[22:26] <jatkins> yeah
[22:26] <jcoxon> at close range the ntx2 doesn't need an antenna
[22:26] <jatkins> oh, ok
[22:26] <jcoxon> its got a bit of coax on it hasn't it?
[22:26] <jatkins> yeah
[22:26] <jcoxon> that'll be fine for testing
[22:27] <jatkins> ok
[22:27] <jcoxon> so what you want to do is turn the radio on
[22:27] <jatkins> yep
[22:27] <jcoxon> switch it to USB
[22:27] <jatkins> ok
[22:27] <jcoxon> and tune it to the correct freq
[22:27] <jatkins> 434.075?
[22:27] <jatkins> 650*
[22:27] <jcoxon> now on that radio its a bit funny as it ignores the first 2 characters
[22:27] <jcoxon> so tune it to 4.650
[22:28] <jcoxon> 4.650.00 i think
[22:28] <jatkins> ok
[22:28] <jcoxon> now on the ntx2 there are 4 main pins
[22:28] <jcoxon> GND, PWR, TX and EN
[22:28] <jatkins> yeah
[22:29] <jcoxon> so you want to power up the radio say with 3.3v
[22:29] <jatkins> ok
[22:29] <jcoxon> then to turn the radio on you need to put 3.3v into the EN line
[22:29] <jatkins> to pull the logic high?
[22:29] <jcoxon> yup
[22:29] <jatkins> does that need a pullup?
[22:29] <jatkins> resistor
[22:30] <jcoxon> i've had no problem directly attaching it to a gpio on the arduino
[22:30] <jatkins> ok
[22:30] <jatkins> got it to the right freq
[22:30] <jatkins> i'll upload that script on your wiki to the arduino
[22:31] <jcoxon> so when you've got power to the radio and pulled the EN line high you should hear the radio turn on
[22:31] <jatkins> ok
[22:31] <jcoxon> then when you give the TX line a voltage it'll make a tone
[22:31] <jatkins> ok
[22:31] <jcoxon> that a good way of testing things
[22:32] <hallam> you should hear something even with TX left unconnected
[22:32] <jatkins> do I need to connect both gpios to the tx?
[22:32] <jcoxon> do you have a breadboard or something (something not permanent)
[22:32] <jatkins> ie 9 and 11
[22:32] <jatkins> i have a big breadboard, but i don't know how to use it (dumb i know)
[22:32] <hallam> one GPIO to TX, one to EN (or just wire EN to 3.3V if you don't mind the radio being on all the time)
[22:32] <jatkins> ok
[22:32] <jcoxon> hallam, i think the plan was to do rtty with 2 gpios and 2 different resistors
[22:33] <jcoxon> connected to TX
[22:33] <hallam> oh I see, sorry
[22:33] <jatkins> but i'm not sure where the breadboard is right now so i'll just solder it
[22:33] <jatkins> to the header pins
[22:33] <jcoxon> hmmm this sort of thing usually requries a bit of playing
[22:33] <jcoxon> perhaps just twist wire for now to make sure everything works
[22:33] <jatkins> OK
[22:34] <jatkins> ok*
[22:34] <jatkins> is it gnd, pwr, tx, and en from left to right
[22:35] <jatkins> oh, got the pinout
[22:36] <jatkins> http://www.radiometrix.com/files/additional/ntx2nrx2.pdf
[22:36] <jcoxon> yeah check the datasheet
[22:36] <jatkins> 0V = GND?
[22:36] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:36] <edmoore> GND = ground = 0V = the earth = the bottom = nada = where the current goes to
[22:37] <jatkins> lol
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[22:42] <edmoore> fergusnoble_: did you say you had not seen office space?
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[22:49] <jatkins> bbiab
[22:58] <jatkins> i've g2g to bed
[22:59] <jatkins> i'll finish it in the morning
[22:59] <jatkins> thx
[22:59] <jatkins> for the help
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[23:20] <hallam> Anyone hot with .htaccess? How do I set a page to be redirected to if the auth was rejected?
[23:20] <edmoore> #apache at a guess
[23:37] <Laurenceb> hallam: sorry I know you've told me this before.... blackfin gcc doesnt support the hardware very well right?
[23:38] <Laurenceb> just wondering how fast floating point is going to be
[23:40] <jcoxon> damn, going to have to order the tubing
[23:40] <hallam> there's a fast fp library
[23:40] <jcoxon> need 1.6mm internal diameter
[23:40] <Laurenceb> nice and small
[23:40] <hallam> ported from the VisualDSP version
[23:40] <hallam> it's pretty good I think, though I haven't done a direct comparison
[23:40] <Laurenceb> ok... open?
[23:40] <hallam> a lot faster than the builtin anyway
[23:40] <hallam> yeah
[23:41] <Laurenceb> right cool
[23:41] <hallam> what are you using blackfin for?
[23:41] <Laurenceb> I'm considering a huge extended kalman filter
[23:41] <hallam> heh
[23:41] <Laurenceb> something mad like 30 component state vector
[23:41] <hallam> I'd go fixed point though if I were you, floating point is never going to be lightning on something without an FPU
[23:42] <hallam> edmoore: Can you test http://www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/expenses/ for me?
[23:42] <edmoore> Authorizing as eam52...
[23:42] <edmoore> You don't appear to be on the users list for the expenses system. Please ask someone to fix it.
[23:42] <hallam> thanks
[23:42] <edmoore> that was after a raven login
[23:43] <hallam> yeah
[23:45] <Laurenceb> having everything hooked into one kalman filter would be amazing
[23:48] <edmoore> one matrix to rule them all, one matrix to estimate them. one matrix to complement them all together, and in the darkness optimise them
[23:49] <Laurenceb> huhahaha
[23:52] <Laurenceb> how do I remove a driver in win xp?
[23:55] <edmoore> control panel > system > hardware > drivers
[23:55] <edmoore> big caveat is that i've not done it for about 4 years so i don't really remember
[23:56] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, silicone tubing best?
[23:56] <Laurenceb> yeah guess
[00:00] --- Sat Mar 7 2009